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Oilers » Review: Edmonton @ Columbus (Game #14)

Review: Edmonton @ Columbus (Game #14) [message #745978]	Wed, 30 October 2019 20:00

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IseeRe: Review: Edmonton @ Columbus (Game #14) [message #745980 is a reply to message #745978 ]	Wed, 30 October 2019 20:06

Ragnarok73
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Registered: February 2011

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I get it now: the Oil master plan was to save their energy last night so that they could dump all over the Jackets tonight because they are the greater-scope villain. Ok then.

"There's no greater springboard to development than failure." - Craig MacTavish, April 13/15.

5-14-6-1

"Sabres think the suck is their ally? They merely adopted the suck. The Oilers were born in it...molded by it."

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Columbus (Game #14) [message #745982 is a reply to message #745978 ]	Wed, 30 October 2019 20:18

PlusOne
Messages: 1576
Registered: July 2006
Location: Regina, Sask

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I was watching the Jackets feed. They just said the Torts post game is coming soon. Cant wait!

Good game. Finally came out with a faster start then the other team and it was a huge help. Throw in a bunch of bad penalties and it was easy to push them around.
I didnt see any of the bottom 8 really stand out as great but as a group they played much better.

Survivor LX(I) and 67 Champ(i)on

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

und(i)sputed O.L.F.N Heavybra(i)n Champ(i)on of the Woooooooooooooooooorld. Plus. One.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Columbus (Game #14) [message #745985 is a reply to message #745978 ]	Wed, 30 October 2019 20:24

Kr55
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Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

I never see the team playing the 2nd game in 2 night look tired anymore. They almost always look like the more engaged team. Maybe it's just an early season thing, or maybe a credit to sports science :)

Nice to see Jujhar get on the board. Nice to see Drai leading the league in scoring too! Hope Sheahan is back quickly to keep taking those PK minutes away from Drai though.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Columbus (Game #14) [message #745991 is a reply to message #745985 ]	Wed, 30 October 2019 23:52

Adam
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Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 30 October 2019 20:24

Still don't think that we can truly call that depth scoring though...still a 2nd line goal. Turns out if you play scrubs up the lineup, there's a better chance one of them breaks through!

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Columbus (Game #14) [message #745992 is a reply to message #745991 ]	Wed, 30 October 2019 23:54

Kr55
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Adam wrote on Wed, 30 October 2019 23:52

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 30 October 2019 20:24

Still don't think that we can truly call that depth scoring though...still a 2nd line goal. Turns out if you play scrubs up the lineup, there's a better chance one of them breaks through!

Keep on rotating the scrubs!

Yeah, still waiting on a true 3rd or 4th line goal. One day! maybe!

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Columbus (Game #14) [message #745995 is a reply to message #745992 ]	Thu, 31 October 2019 00:02

Adam
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Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 30 October 2019 23:54

Adam wrote on Wed, 30 October 2019 23:52

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 30 October 2019 20:24

Still don't think that we can truly call that depth scoring though...still a 2nd line goal. Turns out if you play scrubs up the lineup, there's a better chance one of them breaks through!

Keep on rotating the scrubs!

Yeah, still waiting on a true 3rd or 4th line goal. One day! maybe!

Maybe Gagner and Khaira will have the confidence now that they've broken their goose eggs and they can finally add a goal from lower down the lineup!

Worth noting, I think Gagner belongs up there - he's had more chances than most of the others. While 7 shots in 4 games isn't amazing, it's a much better rate than any of the other scrubs except Patrick Russell, who has 18 in 11 games...but with Russell, I can't remember a single time I thought he looked like a threat to score this year.

I'm not sure Sheahan's going to be a significant loss. 9 shots, 0-0-0 in 12 games and he's -8. He's getting slaughtered out there even though he's only averaging 11 and a half minutes a night of ice time.

No one is really killing it on the farm though, so I'm not sure who you call up to replace him. Cave certainly isn't an upgrade.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Columbus (Game #14) [message #745996 is a reply to message #745995 ]	Thu, 31 October 2019 07:45

Kr55
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Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 00:02

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 30 October 2019 23:54

Adam wrote on Wed, 30 October 2019 23:52

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 30 October 2019 20:24

Still don't think that we can truly call that depth scoring though...still a 2nd line goal. Turns out if you play scrubs up the lineup, there's a better chance one of them breaks through!

Keep on rotating the scrubs!

Yeah, still waiting on a true 3rd or 4th line goal. One day! maybe!

Sheahan is a warm body playing C who the coach trusts to play the PK, so IMO he is a loss for this lineup, because him out means Drai is likely going to be pushing 25 mins every night again.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Columbus (Game #14) [message #745997 is a reply to message #745996 ]	Thu, 31 October 2019 08:09

Adam
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Location: Edmonton, AB

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Kr55 wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 07:45

Sheahan is a warm body playing C who the coach trusts to play the PK, so IMO he is a loss for this lineup, because him out means Drai is likely going to be pushing 25 mins every night again.

Fair point...although maybe it's good to push the coach a little out of his comfort zone on a guy who's picking up a minus for every game he plays!

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Columbus (Game #14) [message #745998 is a reply to message #745997 ]	Thu, 31 October 2019 08:14

RDOilerfan
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Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Pretty solid game from the drop of the puck by the whole team. Persson comes back and all of a sudden the defense can move the puck a lot better.

Leon now leads the league in both points and goals. His contract just keeps getting better by the minute. The McDavid and Leon contracts are pretty much the only thing Chia did well.

Nice to see Khaira get a goal. It's someone else other than McDavid, Leon and Nuge. Maybe the flood gates will open as I saw a few of the bottom 6 guys have great chances.

Would it be a dick move for the Oilers to send a gift basket to the Flames for the Neal trade? Just a nice basket with a card that only says THANK YOU. NO Oilers logos on it but maybe wrap it in orange and blue ribbon, throw in a gift card to West Ed.

If you told me that the Oilers would be leading the West and have 19 pts at the end of October, no way I would believe you.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Columbus (Game #14) [message #746000 is a reply to message #745996 ]	Thu, 31 October 2019 08:17

RDOilerfan
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Registered: January 2016

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Kr55 wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 07:45

Adam wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 00:02

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 30 October 2019 23:54

Adam wrote on Wed, 30 October 2019 23:52

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 30 October 2019 20:24

Still don't think that we can truly call that depth scoring though...still a 2nd line goal. Turns out if you play scrubs up the lineup, there's a better chance one of them breaks through!

Keep on rotating the scrubs!

Yeah, still waiting on a true 3rd or 4th line goal. One day! maybe!

Sheahan is a warm body playing C who the coach trusts to play the PK, so IMO he is a loss for this lineup, because him out means Drai is likely going to be pushing 25 mins every night again.

Sheahan is over 50% on faceoffs, he's good on the PK. Gets a heck of a lot of d-zone starts. I don't see how anyone can say it isn't a bit of a loss to the Oilers.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Columbus (Game #14) [message #746001 is a reply to message #745998 ]	Thu, 31 October 2019 08:30

Adam
Messages: 7166
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 08:14

If you told me that the Oilers would be leading the West and have 19 pts at the end of October, no way I would believe you.

Worth noting - they started last year 8-4-1 too. It didn't last.

Don't get me wrong - it's much better than the alternative and we're even slightly better off now, because we didn't get our 9th win until we'd falled all the way back to .500, but there's a lot of hockey to play, and the team has some big red flags right now. I hope they get addressed.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Columbus (Game #14) [message #746003 is a reply to message #746000 ]	Thu, 31 October 2019 08:34

Adam
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Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 08:17

Sheahan is over 50% on faceoffs, he's good on the PK. Gets a heck of a lot of d-zone starts. I don't see how anyone can say it isn't a bit of a loss to the Oilers.

Faceoffs are badly overrated. If you win faceoffs, but bleed goals against, then the extra few faceoff wins don't mean a whole lot.

Sheahan has yet to be on the ice when the Oilers score a goal. He's been on for lots against. There's evidence to suggest the PK has been more lucky than good so far this year too.

I think we should be asking more of our fourth liners than 12 GP, 0-0-0, 9 shots, -8, 50.7% FOW.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Columbus (Game #14) [message #746004 is a reply to message #746001 ]	Thu, 31 October 2019 08:37

RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 08:30

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 08:14

If you told me that the Oilers would be leading the West and have 19 pts at the end of October, no way I would believe you.

Well thanks Adam for bringing the mood down after a win and reminding us of the past lousiness.

While I fully recognize that there is a lot of hockey left to be played but the past is the past and until they invent time travel, you can't change the past. So dwelling on the past doesn't do a hell of a lot because you can't change it. Hopefully, the team has learned from what happened last year and can move forward rather than fall back into old ways. As you pointed out, the Oilers went into a game at a similar time with a similar record last year. Rather than lose, they won this year. So hopefully that is a sign that better days are to come.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Columbus (Game #14) [message #746007 is a reply to message #746004 ]	Thu, 31 October 2019 08:50

Adam
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Location: Edmonton, AB

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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 08:37

Adam wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 08:30

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 08:14

If you told me that the Oilers would be leading the West and have 19 pts at the end of October, no way I would believe you.

Here's good words to live by - don't get too excited over a win or too down over a loss, and don't let the score or the team's record blind you to the facts.

If this was the stock market, analysts looking at the team's fundamentals would be picking this as a short-sell candidate. The play of our top guys has been great - but to continue their performance at this level would mean scoring McDavid and Draisaitl tallying 140+ points - something no one has done for over 20 years. James Neal is on pace for 65 goals.

The team hasn't got a goal out of the third or fourth line since the second game of the season though, and more concerning, their shot generation and chance generation have been really weak. On top of that, both goalies are playing well above their career averages for save percentage.

This looks for all the world like a bubble. The stock price has been soaring, despite the fact that the company bleeds money...

We shouldn't be surprised if they fall back to earth. We've basically seen them do that over the last 11 days when they've gone 2-3-1 and only scored 11 goals in the 6 games, getting shutout twice.

Ideally, management sees that the top guys are playing amazing and deserve a little help, and they do what is needed to get them that help - whether it's bring up better depth players from the farm, trade for them or bring them back from Finland...

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Columbus (Game #14) [message #746008 is a reply to message #746003 ]	Thu, 31 October 2019 08:52

RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 08:34

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 08:17

Sheahan is over 50% on faceoffs, he's good on the PK. Gets a heck of a lot of d-zone starts. I don't see how anyone can say it isn't a bit of a loss to the Oilers.

I have heard this argument before and I flat out think it's a silly. Are faceoffs the end all be all? No. But they very much help.

In order to score goals, you have to have the puck. If you win the faceoff, you get possession of the puck, if you lose the faceoff, you have to spend time and energy trying to get the puck back. Faceoffs are very important for special teams. When on a PP, the new rules bring the puck into the offensive zone. If you win the faceoff, you get possession of the puck. The more time you are in the offensive zone with the puck, the better your chances to score. When you lose the faceoff, you instantly lose 15-20 seconds of your PP. The reverse for the PK is if you win it, you instantly take away 15-20 seconds from that team.

If faceoffs are truly overrated, why bother doing them at all? As an example, if you are in your own zone defending, why hasn't there been a team who tries a new tactic where they let the opposing team win the draw. While the defending team is letting them win the draw, they can all line up into the exact defensive position they want to be in to defend. Don't even have the center line up for the face off. Just have him stand there ready to defend.

I know what you will say, you will come at me with "hockey coaches and people are traditionalists and don't change" which is a load of BS because coaches and teams want to win. Their jobs depend on them winning as many games as possible. So if faceoffs where truly overrated as you say and there was a strategic advantage, some team would do it. Yet game after game, shift after shift, teams battle, scheme and fight to try to win a faceoff.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Columbus (Game #14) [message #746010 is a reply to message #746007 ]	Thu, 31 October 2019 08:57

RDOilerfan
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Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Adam wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 08:50

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 08:37

Adam wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 08:30

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 08:14

If you told me that the Oilers would be leading the West and have 19 pts at the end of October, no way I would believe you.

In my opinion, it's WAY easier to be negative and expect the worse because there is zero disadvantage. If they do fall back and don't do well, you get to come out and say "see, I told you they sucked, I said that months ago". If the team does well, then you get to jump on the bandwagon with everyone else and no one will say a darn thing.

I am not naïve to the holes of the team. I don't think the team should be planning the parade but as an Oilers fan who's seen a hell of a lot of losses, it's nice to see some wins. It's nice to see some positive play. While still a work in progress, there are some things that have improved.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Columbus (Game #14) [message #746011 is a reply to message #746008 ]	Thu, 31 October 2019 08:59

CrudeRemarks
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Location: Edmonton

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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 08:52

Adam wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 08:34

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 08:17

Sheahan is over 50% on faceoffs, he's good on the PK. Gets a heck of a lot of d-zone starts. I don't see how anyone can say it isn't a bit of a loss to the Oilers.

I think losing 100% of your faceoffs would have a negative effect. but the best faceoff men are like 54%. So most players in the league lose half their faceoffs anyways.

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Columbus (Game #14) [message #746014 is a reply to message #746008 ]	Thu, 31 October 2019 09:23

Adam
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Location: Edmonton, AB

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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 08:52

Adam wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 08:34

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 08:17

Sheahan is over 50% on faceoffs, he's good on the PK. Gets a heck of a lot of d-zone starts. I don't see how anyone can say it isn't a bit of a loss to the Oilers.

Like any individual battle in the game, winning them is better than losing them. However, hockey isn't like football - there's a lot more changes in possession between scoring plays. The idea of intentionally losing them is ridiculous, but it is possible to over-value their importance, and to especially over-value whether the number for a player is above or below 50%.

Some faceoffs are important - but not that important - the number of scoring plays immediately off faceoffs is very low. Obviously, it's nice to win the shorthanded ones when you can, and a last minute faceoff win can be helpful too (although Tippett doesn't seem to believe Sheahan gives him the best chance defending a lead late - he's not who has been used).

On top of that, consider the difference between McDavid (49.3%) and Sheahan (51.5%):

McDavid - 72-74
Sheahan - 69-65

The difference is incredibly thin. That's less than 2 faceoffs every 100. Given the chance of those leading to a scoring chance is low, the chance that those 2 faceoffs are difference makers is incredibly tiny.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Columbus (Game #14) [message #746015 is a reply to message #746010 ]	Thu, 31 October 2019 09:26

Adam
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Location: Edmonton, AB

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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 08:57

Adam wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 08:50

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 08:37

Adam wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 08:30

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 08:14

If you told me that the Oilers would be leading the West and have 19 pts at the end of October, no way I would believe you.

What do you see that's improved other than save percentage and Neal vs. Lucic?

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Columbus (Game #14) [message #746016 is a reply to message #746003 ]	Thu, 31 October 2019 09:26

Kr55
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Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

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Adam wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 08:34

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 08:17

Sheahan is over 50% on faceoffs, he's good on the PK. Gets a heck of a lot of d-zone starts. I don't see how anyone can say it isn't a bit of a loss to the Oilers.

I think the importance for faceoffs is highest now with special teams. Especially now that teams can pick their side to start a PP. Your chances of getting a shot against skyrocket if you lose that faceoff. They really should break out faceoffs by situation, because when it's mixed with 5v5, it really does lose meaning.

As far as PKing skill goes. Sheahan's expected GA is a good amount better than Drai's. I would much rather him be out there to PK than Drai, not only because of the chance of being scored on, but also so that Drai is not burning out.

I'm not sure who else we can use at C if it's not Drai or Mcdavid. Nuge already takes his share. You certainly don't want Gagner out there on the PK. I think it's just back to Drai.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Columbus (Game #14) [message #746018 is a reply to message #746015 ]	Thu, 31 October 2019 09:28

CrudeRemarks
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Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton

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Adam wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 09:26

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 08:57

Adam wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 08:50

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 08:37

Adam wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 08:30

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 08:14

If you told me that the Oilers would be leading the West and have 19 pts at the end of October, no way I would believe you.

What do you see that's improved other than save percentage and Neal vs. Lucic?

We can't understate the Neal vs. Lucic difference though. plus like .8 goals per game.

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Columbus (Game #14) [message #746020 is a reply to message #746011 ]	Thu, 31 October 2019 09:29

RDOilerfan
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Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

CrudeRemarks wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 08:59

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 08:52

Adam wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 08:34

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 08:17

Sheahan is over 50% on faceoffs, he's good on the PK. Gets a heck of a lot of d-zone starts. I don't see how anyone can say it isn't a bit of a loss to the Oilers.

I think losing 100% of your faceoffs would have a negative effect. but the best faceoff men are like 54%. So most players in the league lose half their faceoffs anyways.

I don't think winning/losing faceoffs is the end all be all but to say they aren't important isn't true in my opinion. If it wasn't important we wouldn't see teams trying and practicing and scheming so hard to win them. You wouldn't see teams who maybe their offensive centers struggle at draws so on a PP they throw out the 4th liner center who's good at faceoffs but couldn't score a goal to save his life. You seem teams, not just the Oilers do that all the time.

A faceoff takes what, 2 seconds. So if a faceoff win is borderline meaningless, then why do teams downgrade the offensive talent on their PP just to win a faceoff? It happens frequently.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Columbus (Game #14) [message #746021 is a reply to message #746015 ]	Thu, 31 October 2019 09:32

PlusOne
Messages: 1576
Registered: July 2006
Location: Regina, Sask

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Adam wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 09:26

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 08:57

Adam wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 08:50

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 08:37

Adam wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 08:30

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 08:14

If you told me that the Oilers would be leading the West and have 19 pts at the end of October, no way I would believe you.

What do you see that's improved other than save percentage and Neal vs. Lucic?

- D is moving the puck better
- D is overall better. There are a number of reasons for this but in general they arent as frustrating.
- systems seem more suited to the type of scorers we have
- PP is better. Not just Neal scoring but for the most part we dont go an entire game with me wondering what the heck they are doing
- PK is better.
- Drai looks even better than last year.

Survivor LX(I) and 67 Champ(i)on

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

und(i)sputed O.L.F.N Heavybra(i)n Champ(i)on of the Woooooooooooooooooorld. Plus. One.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Columbus (Game #14) [message #746022 is a reply to message #746014 ]	Thu, 31 October 2019 09:35

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Adam wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 09:23

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 08:52

Adam wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 08:34

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 08:17

Sheahan is over 50% on faceoffs, he's good on the PK. Gets a heck of a lot of d-zone starts. I don't see how anyone can say it isn't a bit of a loss to the Oilers.

See my post above. If it's not as important as you say, then why would a team throw out a poor offensive center strictly to win a faceoff in an offensive situation? It happens frequently.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Columbus (Game #14) [message #746027 is a reply to message #746022 ]	Thu, 31 October 2019 11:39

Adam
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Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 09:35

See my post above. If it's not as important as you say, then why would a team throw out a poor offensive center strictly to win a faceoff in an offensive situation? It happens frequently.

It's actually pretty rare. I can't think of many situations where a Boyd Gordon getting powerplay time. Gordon, for example, had 9 powerplay points in 706 games.

Maybe you're thinking Shawn Horcoff, but Horcoff was actually a very effective powerplay producer in his time with the Oilers. He was on the powerplay for more than just his face-offs.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Columbus (Game #14) [message #746029 is a reply to message #746027 ]	Thu, 31 October 2019 12:51

PlusOne
Messages: 1576
Registered: July 2006
Location: Regina, Sask

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Adam wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 11:39

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 09:35

See my post above. If it's not as important as you say, then why would a team throw out a poor offensive center strictly to win a faceoff in an offensive situation? It happens frequently.

This is a pretty easy debate to end and it just isnt true that teams putting a FO specialist on the PP "happens frequently"

Here are the stats thus far for this season;
http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?report=skaterpowerplay&r eportType=season&seasonFrom=20192020&seasonTo=201920 20&gameType=2&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=ppFa ceoffsWon

You will be pretty hard pressed to find a player taking very many PP faceoffs that isnt also a PP worthy offensive player.

Small sample size? Here is all last season;
http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?report=skaterpowerplay&r eportType=season&seasonFrom=20192020&seasonTo=201920 20&gameType=2&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=ppFa ceoffsWon

Same thing. Players who are on the PP are PP players almost every time.

I dont think anyone is saying that faceoffs have zero importance but in the big picture of a teams success FO% is one of the lowest. Hits and blocked shots often have a much higher correlation to wins.

Teams (and fans) holding onto winning faceoffs as a hugely important facet of the game are simply missing the big picture of what is actually needed to win.

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CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Columbus (Game #14) [message #746030 is a reply to message #746029 ]	Thu, 31 October 2019 13:02

Kr55
Messages: 10736
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

PlusOne wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 12:51

Adam wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 11:39

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 31 October 2019 09:35

See my post above. If it's not as important as you say, then why would a team throw out a poor offensive center strictly to win a faceoff in an offensive situation? It happens frequently.

The faceoff win gives you something like a 10-15s window of improvement to generate a shot attempt. So it is a pretty small influence in the big picture, especially considering how even and random faceoffs are and there is no guy that is out there winning every time.

It's a thing where the influence would only become large if certain teams and players stopped caring about it, which will never happen. If some team just decided, "meh, just have the wingers take faceoffs cause they don't matter", you could actually see it affect their outcomes in a measurable way :)

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