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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#8) - Philip Broberg [message #739309 is a reply to message #739308 ]	Sun, 23 June 2019 14:09

Ragnarok73
Messages: 2419
Registered: February 2011

2 Cups

nullterm wrote on Sun, 23 June 2019 13:35

nullterm wrote on Sat, 22 June 2019 01:16

Random thoughts about picking a defencemen and our situation...

You don't get NHL ready players at 8th.
We need forwards for this season.
This pick wasn't going to help the short term.

Defence is the backbone to your team.
Good defence is hard to find.
Thus good defence is a valuable commodity.
Good deep defence is a recipe to win.

Teams are always looking for defence.
A surplus of defence can be flipped to get forwards.

Reaffirming my position. None of the picks we made this year we're going to help our short term, so maximize your long term.

Any immediate fixes Holland makes need to be trades or free agents. And it will probably take a while to recover from the mess Chiarelli left.

So, we're projecting this upcoming season as another developmental year? If so, then we may as well skip watching and just fast-forward to the 2020 Draft.

"There's no greater springboard to development than failure." - Craig MacTavish, April 13/15.

5-14-6-1

"Sabres think the suck is their ally? They merely adopted the suck. The Oilers were born in it...molded by it."

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#8) - Philip Broberg [message #739310 is a reply to message #739309 ]	Sun, 23 June 2019 15:05

mightyreasoner
Messages: 520
Registered: October 2005
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

Ragnarok73 wrote on Sun, 23 June 2019 14:09

nullterm wrote on Sun, 23 June 2019 13:35

nullterm wrote on Sat, 22 June 2019 01:16

Random thoughts about picking a defencemen and our situation...

You don't get NHL ready players at 8th.
We need forwards for this season.
This pick wasn't going to help the short term.

Defence is the backbone to your team.
Good defence is hard to find.
Thus good defence is a valuable commodity.
Good deep defence is a recipe to win.

Teams are always looking for defence.
A surplus of defence can be flipped to get forwards.

Reaffirming my position. None of the picks we made this year we're going to help our short term, so maximize your long term.

Any immediate fixes Holland makes need to be trades or free agents. And it will probably take a while to recover from the mess Chiarelli left.

So, we're projecting this upcoming season as another developmental year? If so, then we may as well skip watching and just fast-forward to the 2020 Draft.

AKA The Connor McDavid trade watch. The warning shots were fired this offseason.

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#8) - Philip Broberg [message #739311 is a reply to message #739310 ]	Sun, 23 June 2019 15:21

nullterm
Messages: 1034
Registered: July 2007
Location: Port Moody, BC

1 Cup

mightyreasoner wrote on Sun, 23 June 2019 14:05

Ragnarok73 wrote on Sun, 23 June 2019 14:09

nullterm wrote on Sun, 23 June 2019 13:35

nullterm wrote on Sat, 22 June 2019 01:16

Random thoughts about picking a defencemen and our situation...

You don't get NHL ready players at 8th.
We need forwards for this season.
This pick wasn't going to help the short term.

Defence is the backbone to your team.
Good defence is hard to find.
Thus good defence is a valuable commodity.
Good deep defence is a recipe to win.

Teams are always looking for defence.
A surplus of defence can be flipped to get forwards.

Reaffirming my position. None of the picks we made this year we're going to help our short term, so maximize your long term.

Any immediate fixes Holland makes need to be trades or free agents. And it will probably take a while to recover from the mess Chiarelli left.

So, we're projecting this upcoming season as another developmental year? If so, then we may as well skip watching and just fast-forward to the 2020 Draft.

AKA The Connor McDavid trade watch. The warning shots were fired this offseason.

Pretty much.

Chiarelli set us on this course and it will take a couple seasons to steer this slug of a oil tanker back on track.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#8) - Philip Broberg [message #739314 is a reply to message #739310 ]	Sun, 23 June 2019 16:03

mightyreasoner
Messages: 520
Registered: October 2005
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

mightyreasoner wrote on Sun, 23 June 2019 15:05

Ragnarok73 wrote on Sun, 23 June 2019 14:09

nullterm wrote on Sun, 23 June 2019 13:35

nullterm wrote on Sat, 22 June 2019 01:16

Random thoughts about picking a defencemen and our situation...

You don't get NHL ready players at 8th.
We need forwards for this season.
This pick wasn't going to help the short term.

Defence is the backbone to your team.
Good defence is hard to find.
Thus good defence is a valuable commodity.
Good deep defence is a recipe to win.

Teams are always looking for defence.
A surplus of defence can be flipped to get forwards.

Reaffirming my position. None of the picks we made this year we're going to help our short term, so maximize your long term.

Any immediate fixes Holland makes need to be trades or free agents. And it will probably take a while to recover from the mess Chiarelli left.

So, we're projecting this upcoming season as another developmental year? If so, then we may as well skip watching and just fast-forward to the 2020 Draft.

AKA The Connor McDavid trade watch. The warning shots were fired this offseason.

Now that I think about it though, Holland wasn't here yet, so he may have not heard them and the Oilers maybe didn't pass along the memo.

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#8) - Philip Broberg [message #739321 is a reply to message #739235 ]	Mon, 24 June 2019 08:19

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

I thought they would go forward.
I had no interest in the Oilers picking Podkolzin, too many risks in my opinion.
I had no interest in the Oilers picking Caufield. Small guys can play but he makes Guadreau look big. Plus when you are the trigger man on an star team, how inflated are his numbers and does that translate to the NHL.
I did have interest in Zegras.

Big dmen who can skate, move the puck and produce offense are critical in the NHL. You can't win without them and the more you have, the better. Good skating, puck moving dmen are also currency in the NHL. If you have too man, you can move them for pieces and usually get good value. What caught my eye about Broberg is Detroit at 6 had a chance to draft Zegras. Detroit is very close to the US teams home rink. Holland and Detroit would have scouted the crap out of that team so he and Detroit would know that team probably the best. Yzerman who's buddies with Holland, worked with Holland for a bit and who would have compared notes with, passed on this guy to draft some guy from Germany that was a shock. Everyone thinks Yzerman is one of the best GM's in the league. If he didn't think Zegras was worth picking, I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt to Holland and see what happens with this guy.

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#8) - Philip Broberg [message #739324 is a reply to message #739321 ]	Mon, 24 June 2019 08:44

CrudeRemarks
Messages: 1703
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton

1 Cup

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 24 June 2019 08:19

I thought they would go forward.
I had no interest in the Oilers picking Podkolzin, too many risks in my opinion.
I had no interest in the Oilers picking Caufield. Small guys can play but he makes Guadreau look big. Plus when you are the trigger man on an star team, how inflated are his numbers and does that translate to the NHL.
I did have interest in Zegras.

Big dmen who can skate, move the puck and produce offense are critical in the NHL. You can't win without them and the more you have, the better. Good skating, puck moving dmen are also currency in the NHL. If you have too man, you can move them for pieces and usually get good value. What caught my eye about Broberg is Detroit at 6 had a chance to draft Zegras. Detroit is very close to the US teams home rink. Holland and Detroit would have scouted the crap out of that team so he and Detroit would know that team probably the best. Yzerman who's buddies with Holland, worked with Holland for a bit and who would have compared notes with, passed on this guy to draft some guy from Germany that was a shock. Everyone thinks Yzerman is one of the best GM's in the league. If he didn't think Zegras was worth picking, I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt to Holland and see what happens with this guy.

The next couple years should give us a good idea if it's Yzerman that was the talent in Tampa of if their scouts just knew their stuff.

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#8) - Philip Broberg [message #739328 is a reply to message #739324 ]	Mon, 24 June 2019 08:50

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

CrudeRemarks wrote on Mon, 24 June 2019 08:44

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 24 June 2019 08:19

I thought they would go forward.
I had no interest in the Oilers picking Podkolzin, too many risks in my opinion.
I had no interest in the Oilers picking Caufield. Small guys can play but he makes Guadreau look big. Plus when you are the trigger man on an star team, how inflated are his numbers and does that translate to the NHL.
I did have interest in Zegras.

Big dmen who can skate, move the puck and produce offense are critical in the NHL. You can't win without them and the more you have, the better. Good skating, puck moving dmen are also currency in the NHL. If you have too man, you can move them for pieces and usually get good value. What caught my eye about Broberg is Detroit at 6 had a chance to draft Zegras. Detroit is very close to the US teams home rink. Holland and Detroit would have scouted the crap out of that team so he and Detroit would know that team probably the best. Yzerman who's buddies with Holland, worked with Holland for a bit and who would have compared notes with, passed on this guy to draft some guy from Germany that was a shock. Everyone thinks Yzerman is one of the best GM's in the league. If he didn't think Zegras was worth picking, I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt to Holland and see what happens with this guy.

The next couple years should give us a good idea if it's Yzerman that was the talent in Tampa of if their scouts just knew their stuff.

Totally agree. I don't pretend to be a draft expert and I lean on all those lists like I am sure most of us do but when you hear the panel react like they did, you know it was a surprise.

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#8) - Philip Broberg [message #788298 is a reply to message #739215 ]	Fri, 25 June 2021 09:59

Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Fri, 21 June 2019 19:47

NetBOG wrote on Fri, 21 June 2019 19:40

Adam wrote on Fri, 21 June 2019 19:38

Well, the way it's going, we might still get Caufield with our 2nd round pick!

Another midget?
Ya, that worked real well last time.

I dunno, I think we could've used a kid with a release like that.

Still standing by this, a few years later...

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#8) - Philip Broberg [message #788300 is a reply to message #788298 ]	Fri, 25 June 2021 10:16

Kr55
Messages: 10778
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Fri, 25 June 2021 09:59

Adam wrote on Fri, 21 June 2019 19:47

NetBOG wrote on Fri, 21 June 2019 19:40

Adam wrote on Fri, 21 June 2019 19:38

Well, the way it's going, we might still get Caufield with our 2nd round pick!

Another midget?
Ya, that worked real well last time.

I dunno, I think we could've used a kid with a release like that.

Still standing by this, a few years later...

Zegras started looking good as his season went on as well.

We are left in a familiar oilers fan spot yet again. Gotta keep the hopium injections flowing.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#8) - Philip Broberg [message #788301 is a reply to message #788300 ]	Fri, 25 June 2021 10:37

Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Fri, 25 June 2021 10:16

Adam wrote on Fri, 25 June 2021 09:59

Adam wrote on Fri, 21 June 2019 19:47

NetBOG wrote on Fri, 21 June 2019 19:40

Adam wrote on Fri, 21 June 2019 19:38

Well, the way it's going, we might still get Caufield with our 2nd round pick!

Another midget?
Ya, that worked real well last time.

I dunno, I think we could've used a kid with a release like that.

Still standing by this, a few years later...

Zegras started looking good as his season went on as well.

We are left in a familiar oilers fan spot yet again. Gotta keep the hopium injections flowing.

Yeah, Zegras finished with 3-10-13 in 24 games. He's still technically a rookie next year and could be a Calder candidate. Team leading +6 too on a team where most people were minuses. That's a pretty decent pace, especially given he was playing on a really bad team for a really bad coach.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#8) - Philip Broberg [message #788308 is a reply to message #788298 ]	Fri, 25 June 2021 14:32

NetBOG
Messages: 2951
Registered: January 2006
Location: Parts Unknown

2 Cups

Adam wrote on Fri, 25 June 2021 09:59

Adam wrote on Fri, 21 June 2019 19:47

NetBOG wrote on Fri, 21 June 2019 19:40

Adam wrote on Fri, 21 June 2019 19:38

Well, the way it's going, we might still get Caufield with our 2nd round pick!

Another midget?
Ya, that worked real well last time.

I dunno, I think we could've used a kid with a release like that.

Still standing by this, a few years later...

That you had to draft a defenceman over a winger LISTED at 5'7". Yup.

Caufield has done real well. Hobey Baker and on a massive heater the last few months. Lets wait a little but before we anoint him a superstar.

The truth is, it hasn't even been 2 years since this draft and only 10 or 12 players have even had a chance in the NHL. Defensemen take longer to develop. I remember you stating that Ristolainen was 100% a better player than Nurse when they were 22 years old. How does that take look at this point?

Always, always, always draft Defensemen and big centres and stay away from goalies and tiny wingers.

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#8) - Philip Broberg [message #788309 is a reply to message #788308 ]	Fri, 25 June 2021 14:44

Kr55
Messages: 10778
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

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NetBOG wrote on Fri, 25 June 2021 14:32

Adam wrote on Fri, 25 June 2021 09:59

Adam wrote on Fri, 21 June 2019 19:47

NetBOG wrote on Fri, 21 June 2019 19:40

Adam wrote on Fri, 21 June 2019 19:38

Well, the way it's going, we might still get Caufield with our 2nd round pick!

Another midget?
Ya, that worked real well last time.

I dunno, I think we could've used a kid with a release like that.

Still standing by this, a few years later...

That you had to draft a defenceman over a winger LISTED at 5'7". Yup.

Caufield has done real well. Hobey Baker and on a massive heater the last few months. Lets wait a little but before we anoint him a superstar.

The truth is, it hasn't even been 2 years since this draft and only 10 or 12 players have even had a chance in the NHL. Defensemen take longer to develop. I remember you stating that Ristolainen was 100% a better player than Nurse when they were 22 years old. How does that take look at this point?

Always, always, always draft Defensemen and big centres and stay away from goalies and tiny wingers.

So definitely take Turris over Kane in 2007? :) Benson over DeBrincat will forever live as a great example of the brilliant gut feel we use to run this org. Definitely don't get the guy that had great chemistry with McDavid in Jr because of his height.

Probably more to players than their height and position. Hope Broberg still works out, but I wouldn't bet that much against Caufield at this point. Once we plays with a good C and gets his PP time, he'll probably be potting 30+.

[Updated on: Fri, 25 June 2021 14:47]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#8) - Philip Broberg [message #788329 is a reply to message #788309 ]	Sun, 27 June 2021 11:23

CrudeRemarks
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Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton

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It’s been such a regular feeling watching Oilers’ drafts. Your turn rolls around, somebody usually has slid and is available, and then they go off the board. Holloway too. Could be he’s a future star, but there were other, more proven scorers on the board.

I can remember worrying about not selecting Barzal, and seeing Caufield’s offensive numbers. Hindsight shows your best plan is to follow the consensus, rather than deciding you’ve seen something others haven’t.

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#8) - Philip Broberg [message #788331 is a reply to message #788329 ]	Sun, 27 June 2021 13:39

NetBOG
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Registered: January 2006
Location: Parts Unknown

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CrudeRemarks wrote on Sun, 27 June 2021 11:23

It’s been such a regular feeling watching Oilers’ drafts. Your turn rolls around, somebody usually has slid and is available, and then they go off the board. Holloway too. Could be he’s a future star, but there were other, more proven scorers on the board.

I can remember worrying about not selecting Barzal, and seeing Caufield’s offensive numbers. Hindsight shows your best plan is to follow the consensus, rather than deciding you’ve seen something others haven’t.

Lets see,
Holloway - right where expected
Bouchard - expected
Yamamoto - expected
Pujujaarvi - expected
McDavid - expected
Draisaitl - expected
Nurse - expected

I can keep going if you want. This team has little recent history of "going off the board".

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#8) - Philip Broberg [message #788332 is a reply to message #788331 ]	Sun, 27 June 2021 15:46

PlusOne
Messages: 1594
Registered: July 2006
Location: Regina, Sask

1 Cup

NetBOG wrote on Sun, 27 June 2021 13:39

CrudeRemarks wrote on Sun, 27 June 2021 11:23

It’s been such a regular feeling watching Oilers’ drafts. Your turn rolls around, somebody usually has slid and is available, and then they go off the board. Holloway too. Could be he’s a future star, but there were other, more proven scorers on the board.

I can remember worrying about not selecting Barzal, and seeing Caufield’s offensive numbers. Hindsight shows your best plan is to follow the consensus, rather than deciding you’ve seen something others haven’t.

Lets see,
Holloway - right where expected
Bouchard - expected
Yamamoto - expected
Pujujaarvi - expected
McDavid - expected
Draisaitl - expected
Nurse - expected

I can keep going if you want. This team has little recent history of "going off the board".

I am curious, what rankings did you find/use for this list? Hockey prospect rankings can be all over the map after the top few prospects. I often like to look back at rankings VS draft spot VS performance (nothing to do with the Oilers, just general hindsight curiosity) but often lose interest given the wide variance.
Do you have one you see as your go to?

More directly on topic I haven't had issues with the Oilers 1st round picks for a while. Sometimes there were players I wanted more than others but never had an informed opinion given I don't watch junior age players often. I dont remember being enraged by a pick lately (decade or so)
Later round picks I have even less of an opinion on given the day they are drafted is often the first time I have heard of them.

Survivor LX(I) and 67 Champ(i)on

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

und(i)sputed O.L.F.N Heavybra(i)n Champ(i)on of the Woooooooooooooooooorld. Plus. One.

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#8) - Philip Broberg [message #788335 is a reply to message #788331 ]	Sun, 27 June 2021 16:11

CrudeRemarks
Messages: 1703
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton

1 Cup

NetBOG wrote on Sun, 27 June 2021 13:39

CrudeRemarks wrote on Sun, 27 June 2021 11:23

It’s been such a regular feeling watching Oilers’ drafts. Your turn rolls around, somebody usually has slid and is available, and then they go off the board. Holloway too. Could be he’s a future star, but there were other, more proven scorers on the board.

I can remember worrying about not selecting Barzal, and seeing Caufield’s offensive numbers. Hindsight shows your best plan is to follow the consensus, rather than deciding you’ve seen something others haven’t.

Lets see,
Holloway - right where expected
Bouchard - expected
Yamamoto - expected
Pujujaarvi - expected
McDavid - expected
Draisaitl - expected
Nurse - expected

I can keep going if you want. This team has little recent history of "going off the board".

My bad, I consider Reinhart an “off the board” move.

Great point about McDavid. Agreed he’s turned out to be the correct pick. Best Oiler since Taylor Hall!

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#8) - Philip Broberg [message #788336 is a reply to message #788335 ]	Sun, 27 June 2021 17:40

NetBOG
Messages: 2951
Registered: January 2006
Location: Parts Unknown

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CrudeRemarks wrote on Sun, 27 June 2021 16:11

My bad, I consider Reinhart an “off the board” move.

Great point about McDavid. Agreed he’s turned out to be the correct pick. Best Oiler since Taylor Hall!

In retrospect, the Reinhart deal deal didn't work out, but it seemed pretty good at the time.

Reinhart was draft+3, two of those years with the Oil Kings, captained them to a Memorial Cup in the second. Both those years he represented Canada at the World Juniors. Decent AHL numbers in one season with Bridgeport, minimal time with a weak Isles team.

They traded #16 and #33 for a former #4 who should have been ready to step in next to their shiny new superstar. Everything was looking good.

Unfortunately, Chiarelli had only been on the job for a few weeks, and turns out he's not a spectacular judge of talent. Out of all the players on the planet, the Oilers scouting book should have had the largest folder on Reinhart. He played for the little sister team in the same arena for 4 years. Unless there was some kind of injury we never heard about or life change, they should have known everything about him, and his play.

I can remember, I was elated that they made that trade. On the surface it was good. In retrospect, it wasn't.

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#8) - Philip Broberg [message #788417 is a reply to message #788336 ]	Tue, 29 June 2021 09:39

Skoobz
Messages: 334
Registered: January 2006

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NetBOG wrote on Sun, 27 June 2021 17:40

I can remember, I was elated that they made that trade. On the surface it was good. In retrospect, it wasn't.

We were at the McDraft. I cheered pretty loudly when this was announced. faint

faint

"[It was] really cool to throw on the Oilers gear, the gear that I want to play the rest of my life wearing. It was pretty cool to put it on. With all the history, it was a lot of fun." - Connor McDavid, July 1, 2015

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#8) - Philip Broberg [message #788419 is a reply to message #788417 ]	Tue, 29 June 2021 09:44

Kr55
Messages: 10778
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

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Skoobz wrote on Tue, 29 June 2021 09:39

NetBOG wrote on Sun, 27 June 2021 17:40

I can remember, I was elated that they made that trade. On the surface it was good. In retrospect, it wasn't.

We were at the McDraft. I cheered pretty loudly when this was announced. faint

faint

Reinhart and Broberg were my first "you better be right!" moments for both GM's. Chia was so so SO wrong. Hope we have better luck with Broberg. Both cases you are leaving offensive talent on the board to jump into 3+ year D projects.

Reinhart was one where you really had to have faith the GM and scouts were seeing something no one else was. He was trending down when we acquired him. But hey, how could our org not know Oil Kings D better than any other team?!? icon_dead

icon_dead

[Updated on: Tue, 29 June 2021 09:47]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#8) - Philip Broberg [message #788444 is a reply to message #788419 ]	Tue, 29 June 2021 22:18

Adam
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Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 29 June 2021 09:44

Skoobz wrote on Tue, 29 June 2021 09:39

NetBOG wrote on Sun, 27 June 2021 17:40

I can remember, I was elated that they made that trade. On the surface it was good. In retrospect, it wasn't.

We were at the McDraft. I cheered pretty loudly when this was announced. faint

faint

Reinhart and Broberg were my first "you better be right!" moments for both GM's. Chia was so so SO wrong. Hope we have better luck with Broberg. Both cases you are leaving offensive talent on the board to jump into 3+ year D projects.

Reinhart was one where you really had to have faith the GM and scouts were seeing something no one else was. He was trending down when we acquired him. But hey, how could our org not know Oil Kings D better than any other team?!? icon_dead

icon_dead

Yeah, Reinhart's numbers weren't really that good anywhere. It's shocking that he was a #4, but it was in a draft that was dreadful. Stauffer has suggested there were those in the Oilers organization who wanted to take him at #1, so maybe those were the loud voices behind this trade.

It was a bad bet, and it was a long shot to pan out based on where he was in his development. That's compounded by the fact that they gave up a pick at a point in the draft where the next three players were all stars.

I still think it was a case of Chiarelli missing out on Hamilton and then panicking that he had to get something done. And so Garth Snow of all people took him to the woodshed.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#8) - Philip Broberg [message #788330 is a reply to message #788309 ]	Sun, 27 June 2021 13:17

K.McC#24
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Kr55 wrote on Fri, 25 June 2021 14:44

NetBOG wrote on Fri, 25 June 2021 14:32

Adam wrote on Fri, 25 June 2021 09:59

Adam wrote on Fri, 21 June 2019 19:47

NetBOG wrote on Fri, 21 June 2019 19:40

Adam wrote on Fri, 21 June 2019 19:38

Well, the way it's going, we might still get Caufield with our 2nd round pick!

Another midget?
Ya, that worked real well last time.

I dunno, I think we could've used a kid with a release like that.

Still standing by this, a few years later...

That you had to draft a defenceman over a winger LISTED at 5'7". Yup.

Caufield has done real well. Hobey Baker and on a massive heater the last few months. Lets wait a little but before we anoint him a superstar.

The truth is, it hasn't even been 2 years since this draft and only 10 or 12 players have even had a chance in the NHL. Defensemen take longer to develop. I remember you stating that Ristolainen was 100% a better player than Nurse when they were 22 years old. How does that take look at this point?

Always, always, always draft Defensemen and big centres and stay away from goalies and tiny wingers.

So definitely take Turris over Kane in 2007? :) Benson over DeBrincat will forever live as a great example of the brilliant gut feel we use to run this org. Definitely don't get the guy that had great chemistry with McDavid in Jr because of his height.

Probably more to players than their height and position. Hope Broberg still works out, but I wouldn't bet that much against Caufield at this point. Once we plays with a good C and gets his PP time, he'll probably be potting 30+.

Was there an uproar over any of these choices at the time they were made? I don't remember any. People make statements about draft choices all the time and it's convenient to review select statements. :)

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#8) - Philip Broberg [message #788312 is a reply to message #788308 ]	Fri, 25 June 2021 16:01

Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

NetBOG wrote on Fri, 25 June 2021 14:32

Adam wrote on Fri, 25 June 2021 09:59

Adam wrote on Fri, 21 June 2019 19:47

NetBOG wrote on Fri, 21 June 2019 19:40

Adam wrote on Fri, 21 June 2019 19:38

Well, the way it's going, we might still get Caufield with our 2nd round pick!

Another midget?
Ya, that worked real well last time.

I dunno, I think we could've used a kid with a release like that.

Still standing by this, a few years later...

That you had to draft a defenceman over a winger LISTED at 5'7". Yup.

Caufield has done real well. Hobey Baker and on a massive heater the last few months. Lets wait a little but before we anoint him a superstar.

The truth is, it hasn't even been 2 years since this draft and only 10 or 12 players have even had a chance in the NHL. Defensemen take longer to develop. I remember you stating that Ristolainen was 100% a better player than Nurse when they were 22 years old. How does that take look at this point?

Always, always, always draft Defensemen and big centres and stay away from goalies and tiny wingers.

Zegras is 6' tall, if size was the biggest concern.

While I think there is definitely some subjectivity when it comes to drafting teenagers, it's generally a really risky move to buck the consensus. Here's the pre-draft rankings:

http://www.mynhldraft.com/2019-nhl-draft/2019-nhl-draft-rank ings/

15 different ratings here, and 13 put Caufield over Broberg and it was unanimous putting Zegras above him. I think about the other times that the Oilers reached on picks - Niinimaki is famous for that of course. Mikhnov was largely unknown and off the board. M.A. Pouliot played more NHL games than either of those guys and there we at least got something for moving back, but man - it's still painful to see who the team passed up to pick that player because they thought he was best.

Our amateur scouting department hasn't had a whole lot of success other than the no-brainer picks so I think it's pretty fair to question them when they decide they know better than anyone else.

Two years later, with Caufield and Zegras both in the NHL and Broberg having apparently had a bit of a tougher season with some injuries, we're looking like we're behind on the bet.

I don't recall the Ristolainen/Nurse conversation, but Ristolainen probably did have more value when he was scoring 45 points as a 40+ point player and Nurse wasn't yet a full-time NHLer.

The race isn't yet run, but still, if I think what would help the team right now as they need to be a contender in McDavid's prime - a really good winger with a great shot would sure fit the bill well.

I mean, what do you think the likelihood is that the Oilers have both Bouchard AND Broberg in their lineup for many games next year? If that's not happening soon, then when does this pick start paying dividends?

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#8) - Philip Broberg [message #788333 is a reply to message #788308 ]	Sun, 27 June 2021 15:49

Skookum Jim
Messages: 4419
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

4 Cups

NetBOG wrote on Fri, 25 June 2021 13:32

Adam wrote on Fri, 25 June 2021 09:59

Adam wrote on Fri, 21 June 2019 19:47

NetBOG wrote on Fri, 21 June 2019 19:40

Adam wrote on Fri, 21 June 2019 19:38

Well, the way it's going, we might still get Caufield with our 2nd round pick!

Another midget?
Ya, that worked real well last time.

I dunno, I think we could've used a kid with a release like that.

Still standing by this, a few years later...

That you had to draft a defenceman over a winger LISTED at 5'7". Yup.

Caufield has done real well. Hobey Baker and on a massive heater the last few months. Lets wait a little but before we anoint him a superstar.

The truth is, it hasn't even been 2 years since this draft and only 10 or 12 players have even had a chance in the NHL. Defensemen take longer to develop. I remember you stating that Ristolainen was 100% a better player than Nurse when they were 22 years old. How does that take look at this point?

Always, always, always draft Defensemen and big centres and stay away from goalies and tiny wingers.

Agree 100% about defense men, guy hasn't even played a game in North America yet, they all don't shoot out of a cannon like Cale Makar. But what we do know is he skates like the wind, has skill, and is 6'-4" with the reach of a Orangutan.. I'll wait and see.

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#8) - Philip Broberg [message #788334 is a reply to message #788333 ]	Sun, 27 June 2021 16:00

PlusOne
Messages: 1594
Registered: July 2006
Location: Regina, Sask

1 Cup

Skookum Jim wrote on Sun, 27 June 2021 15:49

NetBOG wrote on Fri, 25 June 2021 13:32

Adam wrote on Fri, 25 June 2021 09:59

Adam wrote on Fri, 21 June 2019 19:47

NetBOG wrote on Fri, 21 June 2019 19:40

Adam wrote on Fri, 21 June 2019 19:38

Well, the way it's going, we might still get Caufield with our 2nd round pick!

Another midget?
Ya, that worked real well last time.

I dunno, I think we could've used a kid with a release like that.

Still standing by this, a few years later...

That you had to draft a defenceman over a winger LISTED at 5'7". Yup.

Caufield has done real well. Hobey Baker and on a massive heater the last few months. Lets wait a little but before we anoint him a superstar.

The truth is, it hasn't even been 2 years since this draft and only 10 or 12 players have even had a chance in the NHL. Defensemen take longer to develop. I remember you stating that Ristolainen was 100% a better player than Nurse when they were 22 years old. How does that take look at this point?

Always, always, always draft Defensemen and big centres and stay away from goalies and tiny wingers.

Agree 100% about defense men, guy hasn't even played a game in North America yet, they all don't shoot out of a cannon like Cale Makar. But what we do know is he skates like the wind, has skill, and is 6'-4" with the reach of a Orangutan.. I'll wait and see.

This is my take right now on Broberg as well, wait and see.
From a need POV;
At the time the team was desperate for D and I dont think they saw that need being filled in the 3 or so years post draft that could expect Broberg to arrive.
At the time I am guessing the saw the winger box as checked (right or wrong)

From a general draft strategy POV;
C's and D's all day every day.
The end

As far as my thoughts at the time;
Before the draft I really wanted Byram, Cozens or Dach to drop a few slots. My only preference for them was myopic given I had seen them play in the WHL but knew very little overall.
After they were gone I had no idea as the rest of the draft seemed to be a crapshoot with lots of guys that were equal parts talent/flaws/dev projects.
Maybe at the time I was ecstatic or livid and this memory has been revised. I think I was naive enough to believe the team had turned a corner and were finally drafting to fill the cupboards and not plug a while for next season. Oh how wrong I was....

Survivor LX(I) and 67 Champ(i)on

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#8) - Philip Broberg [message #771667 is a reply to message #739212 ]	Tue, 12 January 2021 14:17

GabbyDugan
Messages: 828
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton, AB

No Cups

Per Bob Stauffer.

Ken Holland confirms on @OilersNow
that Philip Broberg played with a slight tear above the knee and had a partial shoulder separation in the medal round of the World Junior Championship.

Broberg was off to a great start in the WJC, then his performance went sour. Hope his recovery is complete.

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#8) - Philip Broberg [message #739219 is a reply to message #739192 ]	Fri, 21 June 2019 20:36

Kr55
Messages: 10778
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

I only caught this part way into the Oilers pick. But I could have sworm I saw Holland at our table in the middle of a Gretzky Sandwich. Good times.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#8) - Philip Broberg [message #739227 is a reply to message #739192 ]	Fri, 21 June 2019 21:29

WhoreableGuy
Messages: 592
Registered: August 2006
Location: Calgary

No Cups

Well the Oilers get the 38th overall which is only 7 picks away - maybe Brett Leason is still available? 6 foot 4, right handed shot. Late bloomer.

"Bah Gawd! Would somebody stop the damn draft!"

- Jim Ross calling the NHL Draft Lotto 2015 as the Oilers win

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#8) - Philip Broberg [message #739228 is a reply to message #739227 ]	Fri, 21 June 2019 21:32

mightyreasoner
Messages: 520
Registered: October 2005
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

WhoreableGuy wrote on Fri, 21 June 2019 21:29

Well the Oilers get the 38th overall which is only 7 picks away - maybe Brett Leason is still available? 6 foot 4, right handed shot. Late bloomer.

If you're Holland to you trade and work out a trade with the Sens tonight to take Arthur Kaliyev tomorrow morning? Do you pitch Puljujarvi and #38 to make that pick?

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#8) - Philip Broberg [message #739229 is a reply to message #739228 ]	Fri, 21 June 2019 21:39

nullterm
Messages: 1034
Registered: July 2007
Location: Port Moody, BC

1 Cup

I see some negatively to the pick. Why so? /open can of worms

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#8) - Philip Broberg [message #739287 is a reply to message #739229 ]	Sat, 22 June 2019 18:46

Ragnarok73
Messages: 2419
Registered: February 2011

2 Cups

nullterm wrote on Fri, 21 June 2019 21:39

I see some negatively to the pick. Why so? /open can of worms

People, including me, feel that the Oil should have taken Zegras when he dropped to them thanks to the Wings deciding to make a stretch pick in Seider. They need help at the forward positions particularly along the wings, and yet they decided to grab a project pick on D despite already having prospects like Bouchard waiting in the wings. Broberg looks to have some offensive upside and is said to be a strong skater, but he is also said to be lacking positional sense and decision-making ability, which is something the Oil do not need more of on their team.

"There's no greater springboard to development than failure." - Craig MacTavish, April 13/15.

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"Sabres think the suck is their ally? They merely adopted the suck. The Oilers were born in it...molded by it."

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#8) - Philip Broberg [message #739288 is a reply to message #739287 ]	Sat, 22 June 2019 19:11

Kr55
Messages: 10778
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Ragnarok73 wrote on Sat, 22 June 2019 18:46

nullterm wrote on Fri, 21 June 2019 21:39

I see some negatively to the pick. Why so? /open can of worms

People, including me, feel that the Oil should have taken Zegras when he dropped to them thanks to the Wings deciding to make a stretch pick in Seider. They need help at the forward positions particularly along the wings, and yet they decided to grab a project pick on D despite already having prospects like Bouchard waiting in the wings. Broberg looks to have some offensive upside and is said to be a strong skater, but he is also said to be lacking positional sense and decision-making ability, which is something the Oil do not need more of on their team.

Guess if you are not a believer in Zegras and really believed Broberg is better, you take Broberg, and you have to trade him or someone else in the depth chart for the forward that you actually think will help. Jersey just traded 2 unproven D and 2nd round picks for Subban. Wonder if we can move some of our unproven D prospects for a good winger.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#8) - Philip Broberg [message #739325 is a reply to message #739229 ]	Mon, 24 June 2019 08:48

Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

nullterm wrote on Fri, 21 June 2019 21:39

I see some negatively to the pick. Why so? /open can of worms

I think the negativity comes down to a couple of items:

1) Did the Oilers pick the best player available? If they picked for position, it's crazy that they'd pick a left d-man as we have an awful lot of them. Best player available should always be the default, so if he really was better than everyone else, then so be it, but he wasn't 8th on almost any pre-draft ranking, so this is the Oilers believing they know better than others. Here's a consolidation of 14 draft rankings:

https://www.habseyesontheprize.com/nhl-entry-draft-picks-201 9/2019/6/21/18692160/2019-nhl-draft-rankings-consensus-hughe s-kakko-bob-mckenzie-athletic-hockey-prospects

Zegras is 5th, Broberg is 14th. Pre-draft rankings aren't gospel by any means, but I don't think there's a lot of reasons to trust the Oilers to get this right. The team hasn't done that well at outsmarting the league historically.

But we have Ken Holland now! He drafted Zetterberg and Datsyuk! All that is true - but look at the Red Wings draft record since 2009:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00005492.html

Thomas Tatar is the most capped player in that time (to borrow a soccer term). Dylan Larkin is the best player. The rest? It's pretty damn bleak.

And what about Keith Gretzky?! Well, we saw Keith go off the board with a hunch (maybe three hunches, depending on who you believe) in 2015 and Boston missed out on Chabot, Connor and Barzal for Debrusk and two no-names.

I'd have preferred the team to take the more conventional pick. As a bonus, they'd be bolstering an area of organizational weakness, as the cupboards are pretty bare at forward.

2) I HATE that the team spent the weak ahead of the draft trying to condition fans to this pick and to set expectations. If you're going to fly against consensus, then you're better to be quiet about it and just deal with the fall-out when it happens. The chances of trading back drop significantly when everyone in the league knows who you want, because every talking head in hockey has heard directly from someone in the Oilers organization that they plan to pick Broberg.

Management still believes that the most important thing is to manage the expectations of their fanbase...that's a major cause for concern, and a contributing factor in their never-ending failure.

If they have to swim against the current, they should do it without any attempt to placate the market ahead of time. Let the results speak for themselves. I think about the scene in Moneyball where Billy Beane is listening to the fans rip him on the radio - managers need thick skins, and you need enough confidence in your path that you will suffer those slings and arrows. If you don't have that? Then maybe you should stick to the more conventional path...or let someone else lead the team.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#8) - Philip Broberg [message #739231 is a reply to message #739192 ]	Fri, 21 June 2019 21:57

mad90
Messages: 12
Registered: July 2007
Location: Edmonton, Alberta

No Cups

Love the pick, you can never have enough young dman in your organization. I think he will be a great complement to the other Big 3. 2-3 Years from now could be a killer top 4:

Klefbom - Bouchard
Broberg - Larrson

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#8) - Philip Broberg [message #739234 is a reply to message #739231 ]	Fri, 21 June 2019 22:12

mightyreasoner
Messages: 520
Registered: October 2005
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

mad90 wrote on Fri, 21 June 2019 21:57

Love the pick, you can never have enough young dman in your organization. I think he will be a great complement to the other Big 3. 2-3 Years from now could be a killer top 4:

Klefbom - Bouchard
Broberg - Larrson

I think you probably can have too many, or you can if you don't have players elsewhere. I don't know who is actually going to play wing for the Oilers next year.

I think there's enough prospects in the system, Edmonton needs to choose who they want to keep, who has a pathway into the NHL, what their ceilings will be, and then use some of them as trade chips to land some NHL forwards.

It does feel like the last two drafts have turned Caleb Jones and Ethan Bear from the best defensive prospects on the club to some of the best trade chips the Oilers have to use.

Also seems like Darnell Nurse could potentially be moved depending on how things break (what is his ask on his new deal? How is Broberg developing?). You just have to pray that Connor is okay with that and it doesn't break a fragile situation (I still don't see how this club makes the playoffs next year, but we will see how Holland handles this summer).

Broberg is likely 3 years away I would think. So really they shouldn't be moving any current defensemen based upon this pick. But they should look at adding some current forwards.

2-3 years we are likely looking at something like:

Klefbom - _________
Nurse - Bouchard
Samorukov/Lagesson - _________

3-4 years we are likely looking at:
Klefbom - ________
Nurse - Bouchard
Broberg - __________

Looking at this, maybe you keep Bear as a RHD over Jones, Samorukov, and Lagesson.

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#8) - Philip Broberg [message #739244 is a reply to message #739192 ]	Sat, 22 June 2019 09:04

WhoreableGuy
Messages: 592
Registered: August 2006
Location: Calgary

No Cups

I did the “visual” Mac T test last night which was to watch Broberg’s highlight videos on YouTube. I’m actually impressed, Broberg is fantastic skater and really calm in his own end. It looks like he plays with an extra long stick, tall player. He’s a guy that likes to grab the puck, take a couple of strides and be out of the zone either with a pass or just skate it in.

I know I was emotional last night about the pick but I think he’s someone that will help especially when I watched a lot of Blues playoff games and saw their style of D which were just tall lanky D that can move the puck.

"Bah Gawd! Would somebody stop the damn draft!"

- Jim Ross calling the NHL Draft Lotto 2015 as the Oilers win

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#8) - Philip Broberg [message #739248 is a reply to message #739192 ]	Sat, 22 June 2019 10:08

overdue
Messages: 493
Registered: October 2014

No Cups

I don't mind this pick at all. Pretty good chance of him being a high quality player in the NHL before too long and it also creates more competition among the other young D coming up in the system. Those Detroit teams were always as stacked as they could be with defence so not surprising that both Holland and Yzerman chose to wander off the mock draft path to take a highly rated young D. Anyone they drafted would be a work in progress, it's not like a young winger could have stepped in and played this coming season or maybe even the next so they must have other plans in the works to fill that void. Maybe even a couple of the guys they've been bringing along in the minors.

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#8) - Philip Broberg [message #739253 is a reply to message #739192 ]	Sat, 22 June 2019 11:39

Oscargasm
Messages: 5911
Registered: May 2009
Location: YEG

5 Cups

Like the pick. You need defensemen... and aren’t two Swedes with 6-pack abs better than one? Would be nice to get him in the OHL next season. Kid can skate. Used to be a centre. I approve.

Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#8) - Philip Broberg [message #739284 is a reply to message #739253 ]	Sat, 22 June 2019 16:46

mightyreasoner
Messages: 520
Registered: October 2005
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

Oscargasm wrote on Sat, 22 June 2019 11:39

Would be nice to get him in the OHL next season. Kid can skate. Used to be a centre. I approve.

I was thinking about this... I do think the OHL (or AHL) is the way to go. I like the idea of him playing against men in Sweden, but if one of the knocks on his game is his decision making and hockey sense, having him adapt to the smaller ice surface against people his own age probably has some merit and benefit.

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#8) - Philip Broberg [message #739283 is a reply to message #739192 ]	Sat, 22 June 2019 16:43

stemhovlichski
Messages: 349
Registered: March 2006
Location: NSR

No Cups

Watched the videos posted above- he's wearing #4 on his jersey.

Nothing good can come of this.

icon_wink

icon_wink

Restored: "We're sucking hind banana here." - Pat Quinn, Jan 18, 2010

"...the Oilers have been rebuilding for so long that it’s hard not to be cynical." - NBC's Ryan Dadoun Jan 2, 2015

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#8) - Philip Broberg [message #739286 is a reply to message #739283 ]	Sat, 22 June 2019 18:10

oilfan94
Messages: 410
Registered: June 2006
Location: USA

No Cups

stemhovlichski wrote on Sat, 22 June 2019 18:43

Watched the videos posted above- he's wearing #4 on his jersey.

Nothing good can come of this.

icon_wink

icon_wink

They asked him about that in one of the interviews. He said he really had no preference, but when they pushed him more he said he liked #5.

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Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#8) - Philip Broberg [message #739289 is a reply to message #739192 ]	Sat, 22 June 2019 19:17

Skookum Jim
Messages: 4419
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

4 Cups

I had a low opinion of the the pick at the time, but I have come around. After watching this year's playoffs its obvious how important BIG defensemen with ELITE skating are to winning NHL teams. This kid could be a home run. He just turned 18, was referred to as the best skater in this years draft with exception of Hughes, great mobility, a D-man that can carry the puck out of trouble instead of ringing it off the boards and turning it over, he's big and heavy, and he aspires to play physical, another vital ingredient. The defensive in game positioning and "hockey IQ" will come... D. Manson should help out there once he gets to Bakersfield.

Oilers have some good D prospects, but no Oiler D-man has Broberg's skating ability, except for D. Nurse.

This is the type of player you need to build a team around.

I like what Dutch was thinking here.

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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