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 Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #32) [message #724973]
Thu, 13 December 2018 20:30 Go to next message
OilFans is currently offline OilFans
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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #32) [message #724980 is a reply to message #724973 ]
Thu, 13 December 2018 20:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ragnarok73 is currently offline Ragnarok73
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I'm not blaming this on Talbot entirely, though I would rather have seen Koski take over after the 3rd goal. The Oil defense just leaked shots and chances all night, and you can't do that against a team that has the firepower that the Jets do. There is only so much Hitch can do when he has to work with inferior players like Garrison.

This is where I will say: Fire Chia, because he "gifted" Garrison and Wideman to this team.

[Updated on: Thu, 13 December 2018 20:48]

"There's no greater springboard to development than failure." - Craig MacTavish, April 13/15.

5-14-6-1

"Sabres think the suck is their ally? They merely adopted the suck. The Oilers were born in it...molded by it."

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #32) [message #724981 is a reply to message #724980 ]
Thu, 13 December 2018 20:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
overdue is currently offline overdue
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Almost stole 2 points out of Winnipeg with Conner hitting the post in ot. Glad we got a point, hung in there with a pretty good team but the holes on D really showed. I thought the Oilers played well all things considered. I think we're going to have to ride Koskinen to have a realistic chance of winning more than losing with the D in the shape that it's in, unless the AHL boys are better than what we have. Hopefully Russel isn't out too long.

[Updated on: Thu, 13 December 2018 20:58]

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #32) [message #724982 is a reply to message #724981 ]
Thu, 13 December 2018 20:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ragnarok73 is currently offline Ragnarok73
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overdue wrote on Thu, 13 December 2018 20:52

Almost stole 2 points out of Winnipeg with Conner hitting the post in ot. Glad we got a point, hung in there with a pretty good team but the holes on D really showed. I thought the Oilers played well all things considered. Russel would look pretty good right about now.

We know Klef is out for at least 6 weeks, but how long is Kris supposed to be gone?

"There's no greater springboard to development than failure." - Craig MacTavish, April 13/15.

5-14-6-1

"Sabres think the suck is their ally? They merely adopted the suck. The Oilers were born in it...molded by it."

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #32) [message #724983 is a reply to message #724982 ]
Thu, 13 December 2018 20:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike is currently offline Mike
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Yay for a point I suppose, but I wonder - is there a worse top 6 in the NHL than what we had tonight? Anyone close?

Fire Chia!

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #32) [message #724985 is a reply to message #724983 ]
Thu, 13 December 2018 21:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
clutchlikeeberle is currently offline clutchlikeeberle
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Fire Chia! Any other team in the league can handle injuries to two of its top 4 D - its pathetic that we do not have 8 plus NHL D ready to go.

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #32) [message #724987 is a reply to message #724985 ]
Thu, 13 December 2018 21:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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clutchlikeeberle wrote on Thu, 13 December 2018 21:02

Fire Chia! Any other team in the league can handle injuries to two of its top 4 D - its pathetic that we do not have 8 plus NHL D ready to go.


Pretty much a certainty that Jones gets his NHL debut tomorrow. There's clearly NO trust in Garrison at all.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #32) [message #724990 is a reply to message #724987 ]
Thu, 13 December 2018 21:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ragnarok73 is currently offline Ragnarok73
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Adam wrote on Thu, 13 December 2018 21:04

There's clearly NO trust in Garrison at all.

Nor should there be, he is a completely useless bum. Hopefully, Kris come back soon so that we don't have to deal with Wideman for too long either.

"There's no greater springboard to development than failure." - Craig MacTavish, April 13/15.

5-14-6-1

"Sabres think the suck is their ally? They merely adopted the suck. The Oilers were born in it...molded by it."

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #32) [message #724989 is a reply to message #724985 ]
Thu, 13 December 2018 21:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NetBOG is currently offline NetBOG
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clutchlikeeberle wrote on Thu, 13 December 2018 21:02

Fire Chia! Any other team in the league can handle injuries to two of its top 4 D - its pathetic that we do not have 8 plus NHL D ready to go.


3

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #32) [message #724986 is a reply to message #724983 ]
Thu, 13 December 2018 21:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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Mike wrote on Thu, 13 December 2018 20:58

Yay for a point I suppose, but I wonder - is there a worse top 6 in the NHL than what we had tonight? Anyone close?

Fire Chia!


Some interesting things on the TOI:

- First Pairing - Nurse 31:04 (-1) (one of the highest TOI totals this year) and Larsson 28:45 (-1)
- Second Pairing - Gravel 20:38 (-2) and Benning 18:05 (even)
- Third Pairing - Wideman 11:07 (+1) (w/ not a second of special teams time) and Garrison 8:59 (+2)

On forward, Spooner saw just 6:36. Puljujarvi sees just 10:07, a second more than Rieder.

A very short-bench night, which could be tough for the Oilers who have to travel now and play tomorrow at home against the Flyers...against the dreaded third string goalie no less...

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #32) [message #724991 is a reply to message #724980 ]
Thu, 13 December 2018 22:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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Ragnarok73 wrote on Thu, 13 December 2018 20:46

I'm not blaming this on Talbot entirely, though I would rather have seen Koski take over after the 3rd goal. The Oil defense just leaked shots and chances all night, and you can't do that against a team that has the firepower that the Jets do. There is only so much Hitch can do when he has to work with inferior players like Garrison.

This is where I will say: Fire Chia, because he "gifted" Garrison and Wideman to this team.


Shots were 17-2 in the third period. Shot attempts were 41-5. The Oilers went to the old fashioned shell defence, with predictable results...

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #32) [message #724993 is a reply to message #724991 ]
Thu, 13 December 2018 22:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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Adam wrote on Thu, 13 December 2018 22:35

Ragnarok73 wrote on Thu, 13 December 2018 20:46

I'm not blaming this on Talbot entirely, though I would rather have seen Koski take over after the 3rd goal. The Oil defense just leaked shots and chances all night, and you can't do that against a team that has the firepower that the Jets do. There is only so much Hitch can do when he has to work with inferior players like Garrison.

This is where I will say: Fire Chia, because he "gifted" Garrison and Wideman to this team.


Shots were 17-2 in the third period. Shot attempts were 41-5. The Oilers went to the old fashioned shell defence, with predictable results...


Just outmatched. Our D were clearly struggling and couldn't move a puck up to save their lives. Forwards were pretty bad at helping out too. Caggiula made at least 4 stupid plays to lead up to that tying goal and got his butt benched for it. I don't think they were actually in a defensive shell, they just kept getting owned any time they tried to get the puck out of the zone. Over and over and over, and horrible decision making any chance we got to move it.


Ah well, got a point. Hope Russell is back soon. Nurse and Larsson cannot be doing 24+ mins a night. We need to find a way to have a decent bottom 4 D group that can do ~35 mins between them. Overplaying Nurse and Larsson is going to have a cascading effect eroding their game and the rest of the lineup if they keep playing that much.

[Updated on: Thu, 13 December 2018 22:44]

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- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #32) [message #724995 is a reply to message #724993 ]
Thu, 13 December 2018 23:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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Kr55 wrote on Thu, 13 December 2018 22:41

Adam wrote on Thu, 13 December 2018 22:35

Ragnarok73 wrote on Thu, 13 December 2018 20:46

I'm not blaming this on Talbot entirely, though I would rather have seen Koski take over after the 3rd goal. The Oil defense just leaked shots and chances all night, and you can't do that against a team that has the firepower that the Jets do. There is only so much Hitch can do when he has to work with inferior players like Garrison.

This is where I will say: Fire Chia, because he "gifted" Garrison and Wideman to this team.


Shots were 17-2 in the third period. Shot attempts were 41-5. The Oilers went to the old fashioned shell defence, with predictable results...


Just outmatched. Our D were clearly struggling and couldn't move a puck up to save their lives. Forwards were pretty bad at helping out too. Caggiula made at least 4 stupid plays to lead up to that tying goal and got his butt benched for it. I don't think they were actually in a defensive shell, they just kept getting owned any time they tried to get the puck out of the zone. Over and over and over, and horrible decision making any chance we got to move it.


Ah well, got a point. Hope Russell is back soon. Nurse and Larsson cannot be doing 24+ mins a night. We need to find a way to have a decent bottom 4 D group that can do ~35 mins between them. Overplaying Nurse and Larsson is going to have a cascading effect eroding their game and the rest of the lineup if they keep playing that much.


Russell was moved to IR tonight. I think that means he's got to stay out at least a week. Three more games of this at least.

Here's hoping Jones can outperform expectations...

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #32) [message #724997 is a reply to message #724991 ]
Thu, 13 December 2018 23:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
K.McC#24 is currently offline K.McC#24
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Adam wrote on Thu, 13 December 2018 22:35

Ragnarok73 wrote on Thu, 13 December 2018 20:46

I'm not blaming this on Talbot entirely, though I would rather have seen Koski take over after the 3rd goal. The Oil defense just leaked shots and chances all night, and you can't do that against a team that has the firepower that the Jets do. There is only so much Hitch can do when he has to work with inferior players like Garrison.

This is where I will say: Fire Chia, because he "gifted" Garrison and Wideman to this team.


Shots were 17-2 in the third period. Shot attempts were 41-5. The Oilers went to the old fashioned shell defence, with predictable results...


Not so much shell defense as just getting shelled. 2 chaos pairings out their tonight.....3 D, maybe 4 that are marginal NHLers. Wpg just decided to get on the Oilers D in the 3rd.

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #32) [message #725009 is a reply to message #724980 ]
Fri, 14 December 2018 08:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Ragnarok73 wrote on Thu, 13 December 2018 20:46

I'm not blaming this on Talbot entirely, though I would rather have seen Koski take over after the 3rd goal. The Oil defense just leaked shots and chances all night, and you can't do that against a team that has the firepower that the Jets do. There is only so much Hitch can do when he has to work with inferior players like Garrison.

This is where I will say: Fire Chia, because he "gifted" Garrison and Wideman to this team.


I agree with you. I wasn't a big fan of the Laine goal. Laine got off a good shot from a good area but he didn't pick a corner. He put it right through Talbot. If your goalie is getting that much of a shot, that to me says you should have stopped it. The winner was a bad goal. An unscreened wrist shot from a non high danger scoring area from a guy who has a career high 7 goals, you have to stop that. I am thankful for most of his effort and he helped get them the point but when your team scores you 4 goals, you should win most of those games. But when your goalie has .875%, you aren't winning very often.

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #32) [message #725015 is a reply to message #725009 ]
Fri, 14 December 2018 09:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Leon had another 2 points last night. Up to 39 pts in 32 games which is a 100 pt pace. When is it OK to say that he's not overpaid? Leon is not doing it like Maroon did that one year where he cleaned up the garbage from McDavid, he is doing some INSANE things and is right there with McDavid play wise.

Eichel is having an amazing year riding the back of Skinner who in a contract year is having a career year. Eichel makes 10. So 1.5 mill more.

Tavares who everyone said was a great signing for the Leafs is on pace for just over 80 pts and makes 2.5 mill more at 11 mill.

Marner who's on an over 100 pt pace and due for a new contract. He probably does score over 100 but will get in the 90's. So he will get what, 10, 11 mill?

Matthews who is on an unsustainable goal and scoring pace but might end up with 90 pts. Everyone thinks Matthews will get more than McDavid so if he gets 12-13 mill and Leon is right there in points.

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #32) [message #725017 is a reply to message #725015 ]
Fri, 14 December 2018 09:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jay is currently offline Jay
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RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 09:06

Leon had another 2 points last night. Up to 39 pts in 32 games which is a 100 pt pace. When is it OK to say that he's not overpaid? Leon is not doing it like Maroon did that one year where he cleaned up the garbage from McDavid, he is doing some INSANE things and is right there with McDavid play wise.


I actually agree with this. I think 29 gets a lot of unwarranted criticism here because of the way he plays. He is a methodical play maker - He doesn't look like he skates as hard as he can every second of every play. In Edmonton that's a recipe for a bulls eye on your back. I still think the comparison to a guy like Thornton is a good one - but Leon is a better goal scorer. Fantastic player and odds are only going to get better for the next few years.

I'm ok with his contract and I don't see it as a huge overpay for what he brings.

That said, I'm convinced the team butchered the signings of him and Mcdavid. If they would have signed 29 first they could have had him for ~7 and 97 for ~10.5. When they set the bar with McDavid first they gifted him the most obvious comparable in his own dressing room. 29 was never going to consider a salary that was half of what 97 got a month earlier.

"Initiative comes to thems that wait"

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #32) [message #725020 is a reply to message #725017 ]
Fri, 14 December 2018 09:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Pseudoreality is currently offline Pseudoreality
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Jay wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 09:24

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 09:06

Leon had another 2 points last night. Up to 39 pts in 32 games which is a 100 pt pace. When is it OK to say that he's not overpaid? Leon is not doing it like Maroon did that one year where he cleaned up the garbage from McDavid, he is doing some INSANE things and is right there with McDavid play wise.


I actually agree with this. I think 29 gets a lot of unwarranted criticism here because of the way he plays. He is a methodical play maker - He doesn't look like he skates as hard as he can every second of every play. In Edmonton that's a recipe for a bulls eye on your back. I still think the comparison to a guy like Thornton is a good one - but Leon is a better goal scorer. Fantastic player and odds are only going to get better for the next few years.

I'm ok with his contract and I don't see it as a huge overpay for what he brings.

That said, I'm convinced the team butchered the signings of him and Mcdavid. If they would have signed 29 first they could have had him for ~7 and 97 for ~10.5. When they set the bar with McDavid first they gifted him the most obvious comparable in his own dressing room. 29 was never going to consider a salary that was half of what 97 got a month earlier.


I don't mind the McDavid number. Pay him whatever he wants. He is the best player in the league and a generational talent. Any team in the league would trade a Lindros type package for him, even at that salary.

Draisailt was given too much for what he had done up to that point. There were numerous comparables in the $6.5-6.9MM range. If he cracks 100 points this year, which is a big if, that doesn't make the fact the Oilers overpaid any better, but it does make the contract tradeable, versus being an anchor like Lucic. Draisailt has the 15th highest cap hit in the league and would be the highest cap hit on 21 of 32 teams in the NHL. That is superstar/franchise player money. Any player making that kind of money should have established themselves already and been in the mix for a major trophy (Hart, Art Ross, Rocket). I like Draisailt, but he is just not at that level. The Oilers have a bad history of overpaying a player hoping they develop into someone who can earn that money. That is not how it should work.

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #32) [message #725056 is a reply to message #725020 ]
Fri, 14 December 2018 12:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
K.McC#24 is currently offline K.McC#24
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Pseudoreality wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 09:53

Jay wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 09:24

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 09:06

Leon had another 2 points last night. Up to 39 pts in 32 games which is a 100 pt pace. When is it OK to say that he's not overpaid? Leon is not doing it like Maroon did that one year where he cleaned up the garbage from McDavid, he is doing some INSANE things and is right there with McDavid play wise.


I actually agree with this. I think 29 gets a lot of unwarranted criticism here because of the way he plays. He is a methodical play maker - He doesn't look like he skates as hard as he can every second of every play. In Edmonton that's a recipe for a bulls eye on your back. I still think the comparison to a guy like Thornton is a good one - but Leon is a better goal scorer. Fantastic player and odds are only going to get better for the next few years.

I'm ok with his contract and I don't see it as a huge overpay for what he brings.

That said, I'm convinced the team butchered the signings of him and Mcdavid. If they would have signed 29 first they could have had him for ~7 and 97 for ~10.5. When they set the bar with McDavid first they gifted him the most obvious comparable in his own dressing room. 29 was never going to consider a salary that was half of what 97 got a month earlier.


I don't mind the McDavid number. Pay him whatever he wants. He is the best player in the league and a generational talent. Any team in the league would trade a Lindros type package for him, even at that salary.

Draisailt was given too much for what he had done up to that point. There were numerous comparables in the $6.5-6.9MM range. If he cracks 100 points this year, which is a big if, that doesn't make the fact the Oilers overpaid any better, but it does make the contract tradeable, versus being an anchor like Lucic. Draisailt has the 15th highest cap hit in the league and would be the highest cap hit on 21 of 32 teams in the NHL. That is superstar/franchise player money. Any player making that kind of money should have established themselves already and been in the mix for a major trophy (Hart, Art Ross, Rocket). I like Draisailt, but he is just not at that level. The Oilers have a bad history of overpaying a player hoping they develop into someone who can earn that money. That is not how it should work.


Yup.
icon_thumbsup icon_thumbsup

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #32) [message #725065 is a reply to message #725020 ]
Fri, 14 December 2018 14:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jay is currently offline Jay
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Pseudoreality wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 09:53

Jay wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 09:24

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 09:06

Leon had another 2 points last night. Up to 39 pts in 32 games which is a 100 pt pace. When is it OK to say that he's not overpaid? Leon is not doing it like Maroon did that one year where he cleaned up the garbage from McDavid, he is doing some INSANE things and is right there with McDavid play wise.


I actually agree with this. I think 29 gets a lot of unwarranted criticism here because of the way he plays. He is a methodical play maker - He doesn't look like he skates as hard as he can every second of every play. In Edmonton that's a recipe for a bulls eye on your back. I still think the comparison to a guy like Thornton is a good one - but Leon is a better goal scorer. Fantastic player and odds are only going to get better for the next few years.

I'm ok with his contract and I don't see it as a huge overpay for what he brings.

That said, I'm convinced the team butchered the signings of him and Mcdavid. If they would have signed 29 first they could have had him for ~7 and 97 for ~10.5. When they set the bar with McDavid first they gifted him the most obvious comparable in his own dressing room. 29 was never going to consider a salary that was half of what 97 got a month earlier.


I don't mind the McDavid number. Pay him whatever he wants. He is the best player in the league and a generational talent. Any team in the league would trade a Lindros type package for him, even at that salary.

Draisailt was given too much for what he had done up to that point. There were numerous comparables in the $6.5-6.9MM range. If he cracks 100 points this year, which is a big if, that doesn't make the fact the Oilers overpaid any better, but it does make the contract tradeable, versus being an anchor like Lucic. Draisailt has the 15th highest cap hit in the league and would be the highest cap hit on 21 of 32 teams in the NHL. That is superstar/franchise player money. Any player making that kind of money should have established themselves already and been in the mix for a major trophy (Hart, Art Ross, Rocket). I like Draisailt, but he is just not at that level. The Oilers have a bad history of overpaying a player hoping they develop into someone who can earn that money. That is not how it should work.


I don't have a problem with 97s salary either. Other than that I believe a competent GM could have saved ~3M between the two of them by simply signing 29 first.

No questions 97 is worth what he gets now and then some. I don't think anyone would argue that.

As far as 29s cap hit being the 15th highest in the league, again I'm find with that. I'd rather pay the extra money to a guy his age with his trajectory that someone who has proved it on the downslope.

How many players in the league would you trade Draisaitl for 1 for 1? Personally I'm not sure their are 15 guys I would do it for. Do you think that number will be more or less next year?

"Initiative comes to thems that wait"

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #32) [message #725066 is a reply to message #725065 ]
Fri, 14 December 2018 14:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Jay wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 14:20

Pseudoreality wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 09:53

Jay wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 09:24

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 09:06

Leon had another 2 points last night. Up to 39 pts in 32 games which is a 100 pt pace. When is it OK to say that he's not overpaid? Leon is not doing it like Maroon did that one year where he cleaned up the garbage from McDavid, he is doing some INSANE things and is right there with McDavid play wise.


I actually agree with this. I think 29 gets a lot of unwarranted criticism here because of the way he plays. He is a methodical play maker - He doesn't look like he skates as hard as he can every second of every play. In Edmonton that's a recipe for a bulls eye on your back. I still think the comparison to a guy like Thornton is a good one - but Leon is a better goal scorer. Fantastic player and odds are only going to get better for the next few years.

I'm ok with his contract and I don't see it as a huge overpay for what he brings.

That said, I'm convinced the team butchered the signings of him and Mcdavid. If they would have signed 29 first they could have had him for ~7 and 97 for ~10.5. When they set the bar with McDavid first they gifted him the most obvious comparable in his own dressing room. 29 was never going to consider a salary that was half of what 97 got a month earlier.


I don't mind the McDavid number. Pay him whatever he wants. He is the best player in the league and a generational talent. Any team in the league would trade a Lindros type package for him, even at that salary.

Draisailt was given too much for what he had done up to that point. There were numerous comparables in the $6.5-6.9MM range. If he cracks 100 points this year, which is a big if, that doesn't make the fact the Oilers overpaid any better, but it does make the contract tradeable, versus being an anchor like Lucic. Draisailt has the 15th highest cap hit in the league and would be the highest cap hit on 21 of 32 teams in the NHL. That is superstar/franchise player money. Any player making that kind of money should have established themselves already and been in the mix for a major trophy (Hart, Art Ross, Rocket). I like Draisailt, but he is just not at that level. The Oilers have a bad history of overpaying a player hoping they develop into someone who can earn that money. That is not how it should work.


I don't have a problem with 97s salary either. Other than that I believe a competent GM could have saved ~3M between the two of them by simply signing 29 first.

No questions 97 is worth what he gets now and then some. I don't think anyone would argue that.

As far as 29s cap hit being the 15th highest in the league, again I'm find with that. I'd rather pay the extra money to a guy his age with his trajectory that someone who has proved it on the downslope.

How many players in the league would you trade Draisaitl for 1 for 1? Personally I'm not sure their are 15 guys I would do it for. Do you think that number will be more or less next year?


That's a great question. Bill Simmons does (used to do?) a big annual article that ranked NBA players on that criteria. Who would you trade for in a 1 for 1 deal. A hockey version of that would be a lot of fun. Unfortunately, I have no interest in doing it.

Snide side comment: I wonder who would objectively rank higher Eberle, Spooner, or whichever Strome the Oilers had.

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #32) [message #725067 is a reply to message #725066 ]
Fri, 14 December 2018 14:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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CrusaderPi wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 14:31


That's a great question. Bill Simmons does (used to do?) a big annual article that ranked NBA players on that criteria. Who would you trade for in a 1 for 1 deal. A hockey version of that would be a lot of fun. Unfortunately, I have no interest in doing it.

Snide side comment: I wonder who would objectively rank higher Eberle, Spooner, or whichever Strome the Oilers had.


And is there any fan of any other team in the league who would prefer to have Larsson over Hall. I am sure in Edmonton, we'd still see 30% of the drooling masses say that the intangibles he brings are so important and we needed a right shot d-man and Hall had attitude problems anyhow and he partied too much and he squirted water on his coach once for goodness sakes...but I imagine that 99.9% of the world outside Oilersville would say you're nuts to even consider a one-for-one involving those two players...

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #32) [message #725021 is a reply to message #725017 ]
Fri, 14 December 2018 09:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Jay wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 09:24

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 09:06

Leon had another 2 points last night. Up to 39 pts in 32 games which is a 100 pt pace. When is it OK to say that he's not overpaid? Leon is not doing it like Maroon did that one year where he cleaned up the garbage from McDavid, he is doing some INSANE things and is right there with McDavid play wise.


I actually agree with this. I think 29 gets a lot of unwarranted criticism here because of the way he plays. He is a methodical play maker - He doesn't look like he skates as hard as he can every second of every play. In Edmonton that's a recipe for a bulls eye on your back. I still think the comparison to a guy like Thornton is a good one - but Leon is a better goal scorer. Fantastic player and odds are only going to get better for the next few years.

I'm ok with his contract and I don't see it as a huge overpay for what he brings.

That said, I'm convinced the team butchered the signings of him and Mcdavid. If they would have signed 29 first they could have had him for ~7 and 97 for ~10.5. When they set the bar with McDavid first they gifted him the most obvious comparable in his own dressing room. 29 was never going to consider a salary that was half of what 97 got a month earlier.


And trading Hall and signing Lucic for $6MM a year provided another amazing comparable mismatch. Draisaitl is obviously world's more important to the team than Lucic, even in #27's best season as an Oiler.

If you had kept Hall there, then how much higher can Draisaitl be than him before it's uncomfortable?

I saw something on twitter talking about Chiarelli and how he's always a couple years ahead of the curve on salaries - so two years later, what he's paid doesn't look so bad, but it's always ugly at the start - and that his actions are inflationary and provide comparables in the league that drive the higher salaries across the board. Basically, he's terrible at cap management, because he's the easiest negotiator in the league.

[Updated on: Fri, 14 December 2018 13:38]

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #32) [message #725069 is a reply to message #725021 ]
Fri, 14 December 2018 14:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 09:53

Jay wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 09:24

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 09:06

Leon had another 2 points last night. Up to 39 pts in 32 games which is a 100 pt pace. When is it OK to say that he's not overpaid? Leon is not doing it like Maroon did that one year where he cleaned up the garbage from McDavid, he is doing some INSANE things and is right there with McDavid play wise.


I actually agree with this. I think 29 gets a lot of unwarranted criticism here because of the way he plays. He is a methodical play maker - He doesn't look like he skates as hard as he can every second of every play. In Edmonton that's a recipe for a bulls eye on your back. I still think the comparison to a guy like Thornton is a good one - but Leon is a better goal scorer. Fantastic player and odds are only going to get better for the next few years.

I'm ok with his contract and I don't see it as a huge overpay for what he brings.

That said, I'm convinced the team butchered the signings of him and Mcdavid. If they would have signed 29 first they could have had him for ~7 and 97 for ~10.5. When they set the bar with McDavid first they gifted him the most obvious comparable in his own dressing room. 29 was never going to consider a salary that was half of what 97 got a month earlier.


And trading Hall and signing Lucic for $6MM a year provided another amazing comparable mismatch. Draisaitl is obviously world's more important to the team than Lucic, even in #27's best season as an Oiler.

If you had kept Hall there, then how much higher can Draisaitl be than him before it's uncomfortable?

I saw something on twitter talking about Chiarelli and how he's always a couple years ahead of the curve on salaries - so two years later, what he's paid doesn't look so bad, but it's always ugly at the start - and that his actions are inflationary and provide comparables in the league that drive the higher salaries across the board. Basically, he's terrible at cap management, because he's the easiest negotiator in the league.


If you are going to keep going back in time. Eberle should have only been making 4.5 mill. When he started his 6 mill contract which he signed in August 2012, he had a 76 pt season. Pretty big money 6 years. Ago. His points and goals declined from then on. He had 20 goals, 51 pts in his last year as an Oilers. That's not enough for 6 mill. This season he ha 6 goals, 13 pts in 30 games. That's a 16 goal, 36 pt pace. If he was making what he should have been making, that's 1.5 more to go to someone else. He might even be here. Same goes for Nuge. He was signed after a 19 goal, 56 pt season. The thinking is he would continue to go up from there. He managed to equal his points that first year but never got close since either grossly under performing or being a band aid. I would say this is the FIRST season he has legit so far earned every penny of his contract. He probably should be earning 1 - 1.5 mill less based on what he has done up until this season.

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #32) [message #725070 is a reply to message #725069 ]
Fri, 14 December 2018 15:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 14:55

Adam wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 09:53


And trading Hall and signing Lucic for $6MM a year provided another amazing comparable mismatch. Draisaitl is obviously world's more important to the team than Lucic, even in #27's best season as an Oiler.

If you had kept Hall there, then how much higher can Draisaitl be than him before it's uncomfortable?

I saw something on twitter talking about Chiarelli and how he's always a couple years ahead of the curve on salaries - so two years later, what he's paid doesn't look so bad, but it's always ugly at the start - and that his actions are inflationary and provide comparables in the league that drive the higher salaries across the board. Basically, he's terrible at cap management, because he's the easiest negotiator in the league.


If you are going to keep going back in time. Eberle should have only been making 4.5 mill. When he started his 6 mill contract which he signed in August 2012, he had a 76 pt season. Pretty big money 6 years. Ago. His points and goals declined from then on. He had 20 goals, 51 pts in his last year as an Oilers. That's not enough for 6 mill. This season he ha 6 goals, 13 pts in 30 games. That's a 16 goal, 36 pt pace. If he was making what he should have been making, that's 1.5 more to go to someone else. He might even be here. Same goes for Nuge. He was signed after a 19 goal, 56 pt season. The thinking is he would continue to go up from there. He managed to equal his points that first year but never got close since either grossly under performing or being a band aid. I would say this is the FIRST season he has legit so far earned every penny of his contract. He probably should be earning 1 - 1.5 mill less based on what he has done up until this season.


So you're saying that the Lowe/Tambelliini/MacTavish/Howson group was also bad at managing contracts and the cap?

That very same group that put together cap-maxed teams that consistently finished at the very bottom of the league?

Yes, I agree with that. The Oilers management - most of whom are still here - sucked then too. They didn't pay attention to easy to note things like shooting percentages when it came to Eberle, and they valued him the same as Hall - when clearly the two players had significantly different value...as they continue to today.

[Updated on: Fri, 14 December 2018 15:17]

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #32) [message #725072 is a reply to message #725070 ]
Fri, 14 December 2018 15:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Adam wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 15:13

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 14:55

Adam wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 09:53


And trading Hall and signing Lucic for $6MM a year provided another amazing comparable mismatch. Draisaitl is obviously world's more important to the team than Lucic, even in #27's best season as an Oiler.

If you had kept Hall there, then how much higher can Draisaitl be than him before it's uncomfortable?

I saw something on twitter talking about Chiarelli and how he's always a couple years ahead of the curve on salaries - so two years later, what he's paid doesn't look so bad, but it's always ugly at the start - and that his actions are inflationary and provide comparables in the league that drive the higher salaries across the board. Basically, he's terrible at cap management, because he's the easiest negotiator in the league.


If you are going to keep going back in time. Eberle should have only been making 4.5 mill. When he started his 6 mill contract which he signed in August 2012, he had a 76 pt season. Pretty big money 6 years. Ago. His points and goals declined from then on. He had 20 goals, 51 pts in his last year as an Oilers. That's not enough for 6 mill. This season he ha 6 goals, 13 pts in 30 games. That's a 16 goal, 36 pt pace. If he was making what he should have been making, that's 1.5 more to go to someone else. He might even be here. Same goes for Nuge. He was signed after a 19 goal, 56 pt season. The thinking is he would continue to go up from there. He managed to equal his points that first year but never got close since either grossly under performing or being a band aid. I would say this is the FIRST season he has legit so far earned every penny of his contract. He probably should be earning 1 - 1.5 mill less based on what he has done up until this season.


So you're saying that the Lowe/Tambelliini/MacTavish/Howson group was also bad at managing contracts and the cap?

That group that put together cap-maxed teams that consistently finished at the very bottom of the league?

Yes, I agree with that. The Oilers management - most of whom are still here - sucked then too. They didn't pay attention to easy to note things like shooting percentages when it came to Eberle, and they valued him the same as Hall - when clearly the two players had significantly different value...as they continue to today.


In fairness, that version of Oilers management valued Eberle at the same value, but for one year less than Hall. That's crazy, now that I think of it, for a couple of reasons. If Eberle had continued on the same trajectory as his first two years he would have had the opportunity to make significantly more money than Hall in year 7. I wonder what negotiation was like.


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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #32) [message #725068 is a reply to message #725017 ]
Fri, 14 December 2018 14:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Jay wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 09:24

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 09:06

Leon had another 2 points last night. Up to 39 pts in 32 games which is a 100 pt pace. When is it OK to say that he's not overpaid? Leon is not doing it like Maroon did that one year where he cleaned up the garbage from McDavid, he is doing some INSANE things and is right there with McDavid play wise.


I actually agree with this. I think 29 gets a lot of unwarranted criticism here because of the way he plays. He is a methodical play maker - He doesn't look like he skates as hard as he can every second of every play. In Edmonton that's a recipe for a bulls eye on your back. I still think the comparison to a guy like Thornton is a good one - but Leon is a better goal scorer. Fantastic player and odds are only going to get better for the next few years.

I'm ok with his contract and I don't see it as a huge overpay for what he brings.

That said, I'm convinced the team butchered the signings of him and Mcdavid. If they would have signed 29 first they could have had him for ~7 and 97 for ~10.5. When they set the bar with McDavid first they gifted him the most obvious comparable in his own dressing room. 29 was never going to consider a salary that was half of what 97 got a month earlier.

NO disrespect what so ever man but I think you dreaming if you think McDavid was getting 10.5 mill. Would I have loved it, absolutely? But McDavid took exactly the same percentage of the cap as Crosby did when he signed. Coincidence? Not a chance.

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #32) [message #725071 is a reply to message #725068 ]
Fri, 14 December 2018 15:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 14:42

Jay wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 09:24

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 09:06

Leon had another 2 points last night. Up to 39 pts in 32 games which is a 100 pt pace. When is it OK to say that he's not overpaid? Leon is not doing it like Maroon did that one year where he cleaned up the garbage from McDavid, he is doing some INSANE things and is right there with McDavid play wise.


I actually agree with this. I think 29 gets a lot of unwarranted criticism here because of the way he plays. He is a methodical play maker - He doesn't look like he skates as hard as he can every second of every play. In Edmonton that's a recipe for a bulls eye on your back. I still think the comparison to a guy like Thornton is a good one - but Leon is a better goal scorer. Fantastic player and odds are only going to get better for the next few years.

I'm ok with his contract and I don't see it as a huge overpay for what he brings.

That said, I'm convinced the team butchered the signings of him and Mcdavid. If they would have signed 29 first they could have had him for ~7 and 97 for ~10.5. When they set the bar with McDavid first they gifted him the most obvious comparable in his own dressing room. 29 was never going to consider a salary that was half of what 97 got a month earlier.

NO disrespect what so ever man but I think you dreaming if you think McDavid was getting 10.5 mill. Would I have loved it, absolutely? But McDavid took exactly the same percentage of the cap as Crosby did when he signed. Coincidence? Not a chance.


From the sounds of it - McDavid's camp were looking for the Oilers to convince them of a number that made sense. The Oilers came in to the negotiation looking to roll over and let McDavid & Orr sniff their bellies.

McDavid wants to win, and he was taken care of for life on this contract no matter what - if the GM had not thrown overpays at Russell and Gryba in the lead-up to that discussion, if he had shown that he was going to try to convince everyone that they had to take discounts to play with McDavid and build a championship team, if he had presented that strategy to McDavid and his camp - there's no telling what would have happened.

Instead, it took McDavid and his representatives telling Chiarelli that they wouldn't take the absolute top dollar for the benefit of the team. He should thank them every day for that, because they wouldn't even be able to afford THIS roster if he had taken what he could have...

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #32) [message #725076 is a reply to message #725071 ]
Fri, 14 December 2018 15:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 15:17

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 14:42

Jay wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 09:24

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 09:06

Leon had another 2 points last night. Up to 39 pts in 32 games which is a 100 pt pace. When is it OK to say that he's not overpaid? Leon is not doing it like Maroon did that one year where he cleaned up the garbage from McDavid, he is doing some INSANE things and is right there with McDavid play wise.


I actually agree with this. I think 29 gets a lot of unwarranted criticism here because of the way he plays. He is a methodical play maker - He doesn't look like he skates as hard as he can every second of every play. In Edmonton that's a recipe for a bulls eye on your back. I still think the comparison to a guy like Thornton is a good one - but Leon is a better goal scorer. Fantastic player and odds are only going to get better for the next few years.

I'm ok with his contract and I don't see it as a huge overpay for what he brings.

That said, I'm convinced the team butchered the signings of him and Mcdavid. If they would have signed 29 first they could have had him for ~7 and 97 for ~10.5. When they set the bar with McDavid first they gifted him the most obvious comparable in his own dressing room. 29 was never going to consider a salary that was half of what 97 got a month earlier.

NO disrespect what so ever man but I think you dreaming if you think McDavid was getting 10.5 mill. Would I have loved it, absolutely? But McDavid took exactly the same percentage of the cap as Crosby did when he signed. Coincidence? Not a chance.


From the sounds of it - McDavid's camp were looking for the Oilers to convince them of a number that made sense. The Oilers came in to the negotiation looking to roll over and let McDavid & Orr sniff their bellies.

McDavid wants to win, and he was taken care of for life on this contract no matter what - if the GM had not thrown overpays at Russell and Gryba in the lead-up to that discussion, if he had shown that he was going to try to convince everyone that they had to take discounts to play with McDavid and build a championship team, if he had presented that strategy to McDavid and his camp - there's no telling what would have happened.

Instead, it took McDavid and his representatives telling Chiarelli that they wouldn't take the absolute top dollar for the benefit of the team. He should thank them every day for that, because they wouldn't even be able to afford THIS roster if he had taken what he could have...

Believe what you want but not a freaking chance they were getting McDavid for 10.5.

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #32) [message #725079 is a reply to message #725076 ]
Fri, 14 December 2018 15:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 15:26

Adam wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 15:17

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 14:42

Jay wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 09:24

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 09:06

Leon had another 2 points last night. Up to 39 pts in 32 games which is a 100 pt pace. When is it OK to say that he's not overpaid? Leon is not doing it like Maroon did that one year where he cleaned up the garbage from McDavid, he is doing some INSANE things and is right there with McDavid play wise.


I actually agree with this. I think 29 gets a lot of unwarranted criticism here because of the way he plays. He is a methodical play maker - He doesn't look like he skates as hard as he can every second of every play. In Edmonton that's a recipe for a bulls eye on your back. I still think the comparison to a guy like Thornton is a good one - but Leon is a better goal scorer. Fantastic player and odds are only going to get better for the next few years.

I'm ok with his contract and I don't see it as a huge overpay for what he brings.

That said, I'm convinced the team butchered the signings of him and Mcdavid. If they would have signed 29 first they could have had him for ~7 and 97 for ~10.5. When they set the bar with McDavid first they gifted him the most obvious comparable in his own dressing room. 29 was never going to consider a salary that was half of what 97 got a month earlier.

NO disrespect what so ever man but I think you dreaming if you think McDavid was getting 10.5 mill. Would I have loved it, absolutely? But McDavid took exactly the same percentage of the cap as Crosby did when he signed. Coincidence? Not a chance.


From the sounds of it - McDavid's camp were looking for the Oilers to convince them of a number that made sense. The Oilers came in to the negotiation looking to roll over and let McDavid & Orr sniff their bellies.

McDavid wants to win, and he was taken care of for life on this contract no matter what - if the GM had not thrown overpays at Russell and Gryba in the lead-up to that discussion, if he had shown that he was going to try to convince everyone that they had to take discounts to play with McDavid and build a championship team, if he had presented that strategy to McDavid and his camp - there's no telling what would have happened.

Instead, it took McDavid and his representatives telling Chiarelli that they wouldn't take the absolute top dollar for the benefit of the team. He should thank them every day for that, because they wouldn't even be able to afford THIS roster if he had taken what he could have...

Believe what you want but not a freaking chance they were getting McDavid for 10.5.


If McDavid went to RFA, he would be getting 15M AAV offersheets, without a doubt.

We did really need to sign Drai before that playoff run, but I doubt he was interested in signing before seeing what McDavid got, and you have to do McDavid ASAP once July 1st hits, you are not helping yourself letting that drag on. Maybe 10.5 was possible with McDavid, but you likely only get 4 years for that. Players and agents aren't dumb, they aren't signing an 8 year year where it looks like an absolute bargain in year 2.

I really do question Chia's negotiating skills with Drai still. Drai did have a heater in the playoffs on his own line, which was great, but he was something like 30% corsi in those games. He was getting owned by Getzlaf's line on posession, but Drai/Lucic and Slep scored on almost every chance they had. There had to be a way to try to get that point across, that Drai wasn't suddenly Malkin-lite, driving his own line about to be a 90 point guy on his own. A sweet run of luck for 3-4 games took him from probably being 7-7.5M to 8.5, when it really should not have.

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #32) [message #725082 is a reply to message #725079 ]
Fri, 14 December 2018 15:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Kr55 wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 15:35

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 15:26

Adam wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 15:17

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 14:42

Jay wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 09:24

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 09:06

Leon had another 2 points last night. Up to 39 pts in 32 games which is a 100 pt pace. When is it OK to say that he's not overpaid? Leon is not doing it like Maroon did that one year where he cleaned up the garbage from McDavid, he is doing some INSANE things and is right there with McDavid play wise.


I actually agree with this. I think 29 gets a lot of unwarranted criticism here because of the way he plays. He is a methodical play maker - He doesn't look like he skates as hard as he can every second of every play. In Edmonton that's a recipe for a bulls eye on your back. I still think the comparison to a guy like Thornton is a good one - but Leon is a better goal scorer. Fantastic player and odds are only going to get better for the next few years.

I'm ok with his contract and I don't see it as a huge overpay for what he brings.

That said, I'm convinced the team butchered the signings of him and Mcdavid. If they would have signed 29 first they could have had him for ~7 and 97 for ~10.5. When they set the bar with McDavid first they gifted him the most obvious comparable in his own dressing room. 29 was never going to consider a salary that was half of what 97 got a month earlier.

NO disrespect what so ever man but I think you dreaming if you think McDavid was getting 10.5 mill. Would I have loved it, absolutely? But McDavid took exactly the same percentage of the cap as Crosby did when he signed. Coincidence? Not a chance.


From the sounds of it - McDavid's camp were looking for the Oilers to convince them of a number that made sense. The Oilers came in to the negotiation looking to roll over and let McDavid & Orr sniff their bellies.

McDavid wants to win, and he was taken care of for life on this contract no matter what - if the GM had not thrown overpays at Russell and Gryba in the lead-up to that discussion, if he had shown that he was going to try to convince everyone that they had to take discounts to play with McDavid and build a championship team, if he had presented that strategy to McDavid and his camp - there's no telling what would have happened.

Instead, it took McDavid and his representatives telling Chiarelli that they wouldn't take the absolute top dollar for the benefit of the team. He should thank them every day for that, because they wouldn't even be able to afford THIS roster if he had taken what he could have...

Believe what you want but not a freaking chance they were getting McDavid for 10.5.


If McDavid went to RFA, he would be getting 15M AAV offersheets, without a doubt.

We did really need to sign Drai before that playoff run, but I doubt he was interested in signing before seeing what McDavid got, and you have to do McDavid ASAP once July 1st hits, you are not helping yourself letting that drag on. Maybe 10.5 was possible with McDavid, but you likely only get 4 years for that. Players and agents aren't dumb, they aren't signing an 8 year year where it looks like an absolute bargain in year 2.

I really do question Chia's negotiating skills with Drai still. Drai did have a heater in the playoffs on his own line, which was great, but he was something like 30% corsi in those games. He was getting owned by Getzlaf's line on posession, but Drai/Lucic and Slep scored on almost every chance they had. There had to be a way to try to get that point across, that Drai wasn't suddenly Malkin-lite, driving his own line about to be a 90 point guy on his own. A sweet run of luck for 3-4 games took him from probably being 7-7.5M to 8.5, when it really should not have.

I agree with you about McDavid. It's absolutely ridiculous to think that McDavid was taking 10.5 mill. I don't even think he takes that on a shorter deal. Why would he? Are people telling me that if he was a Leaf, he is taking way less than he can get? Get real. The Leafs gave Tavares home town boy 11 mill on a 7 yr deal when Tavaves basically told them he was coming. That isn't a discount. Tavares is a real good player, he's not worth 11 but he got it. People should be happy McDavid took 12.5 because right now, it already looks like a good deal and will only get better and better every year the cap goes up.

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #32) [message #725078 is a reply to message #725071 ]
Fri, 14 December 2018 15:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jay is currently offline Jay
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Adam wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 15:17

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 14:42

Jay wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 09:24

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 09:06

Leon had another 2 points last night. Up to 39 pts in 32 games which is a 100 pt pace. When is it OK to say that he's not overpaid? Leon is not doing it like Maroon did that one year where he cleaned up the garbage from McDavid, he is doing some INSANE things and is right there with McDavid play wise.


I actually agree with this. I think 29 gets a lot of unwarranted criticism here because of the way he plays. He is a methodical play maker - He doesn't look like he skates as hard as he can every second of every play. In Edmonton that's a recipe for a bulls eye on your back. I still think the comparison to a guy like Thornton is a good one - but Leon is a better goal scorer. Fantastic player and odds are only going to get better for the next few years.

I'm ok with his contract and I don't see it as a huge overpay for what he brings.

That said, I'm convinced the team butchered the signings of him and Mcdavid. If they would have signed 29 first they could have had him for ~7 and 97 for ~10.5. When they set the bar with McDavid first they gifted him the most obvious comparable in his own dressing room. 29 was never going to consider a salary that was half of what 97 got a month earlier.

NO disrespect what so ever man but I think you dreaming if you think McDavid was getting 10.5 mill. Would I have loved it, absolutely? But McDavid took exactly the same percentage of the cap as Crosby did when he signed. Coincidence? Not a chance.


From the sounds of it - McDavid's camp were looking for the Oilers to convince them of a number that made sense. The Oilers came in to the negotiation looking to roll over and let McDavid & Orr sniff their bellies.

McDavid wants to win, and he was taken care of for life on this contract no matter what - if the GM had not thrown overpays at Russell and Gryba in the lead-up to that discussion, if he had shown that he was going to try to convince everyone that they had to take discounts to play with McDavid and build a championship team, if he had presented that strategy to McDavid and his camp - there's no telling what would have happened.

Instead, it took McDavid and his representatives telling Chiarelli that they wouldn't take the absolute top dollar for the benefit of the team. He should thank them every day for that, because they wouldn't even be able to afford THIS roster if he had taken what he could have...

Yep. I honestly believe that had they come with this approach they could have convinced 29 to sign at around ~7M - remember his value was at an all time high after the playoffs. I think Adam is right about McDavid. He wants to win and if others had been 'taking less' I don't think there would have been an issue getting him for 10.5 or thereabouts. Still the highest paid player in the league but a (more) significant discount.

Anyway we'll never know. The facts are that this management group didn't and doesn't have any clue how to negotiate or manage a cap. So here we are.

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #32) [message #725019 is a reply to message #725009 ]
Fri, 14 December 2018 09:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 08:39

Ragnarok73 wrote on Thu, 13 December 2018 20:46

I'm not blaming this on Talbot entirely, though I would rather have seen Koski take over after the 3rd goal. The Oil defense just leaked shots and chances all night, and you can't do that against a team that has the firepower that the Jets do. There is only so much Hitch can do when he has to work with inferior players like Garrison.

This is where I will say: Fire Chia, because he "gifted" Garrison and Wideman to this team.


I agree with you. I wasn't a big fan of the Laine goal. Laine got off a good shot from a good area but he didn't pick a corner. He put it right through Talbot. If your goalie is getting that much of a shot, that to me says you should have stopped it. The winner was a bad goal. An unscreened wrist shot from a non high danger scoring area from a guy who has a career high 7 goals, you have to stop that. I am thankful for most of his effort and he helped get them the point but when your team scores you 4 goals, you should win most of those games. But when your goalie has .875%, you aren't winning very often.


Pretty sure Gravel put on a perfect screen on Talbot for the Laine goal. Laine in the slot, goalie screened. If Laine shoots that puck in a place that isn't already covered by the goalie, it's going in. Talbot almost got lucky and had it hit him. If you don't want to get scored on, don't let guys like Laine get the puck wide open in your slot, and don't screen your goalie.

Koskinen let in worse goals than that against Colorado.

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #32) [message #725022 is a reply to message #725019 ]
Fri, 14 December 2018 09:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Kr55 wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 09:48

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 08:39

Ragnarok73 wrote on Thu, 13 December 2018 20:46

I'm not blaming this on Talbot entirely, though I would rather have seen Koski take over after the 3rd goal. The Oil defense just leaked shots and chances all night, and you can't do that against a team that has the firepower that the Jets do. There is only so much Hitch can do when he has to work with inferior players like Garrison.

This is where I will say: Fire Chia, because he "gifted" Garrison and Wideman to this team.


I agree with you. I wasn't a big fan of the Laine goal. Laine got off a good shot from a good area but he didn't pick a corner. He put it right through Talbot. If your goalie is getting that much of a shot, that to me says you should have stopped it. The winner was a bad goal. An unscreened wrist shot from a non high danger scoring area from a guy who has a career high 7 goals, you have to stop that. I am thankful for most of his effort and he helped get them the point but when your team scores you 4 goals, you should win most of those games. But when your goalie has .875%, you aren't winning very often.


Pretty sure Gravel put on a perfect screen on Talbot for the Laine goal. Laine in the slot, goalie screened. If Laine shoots that puck in a place that isn't already covered by the goalie, it's going in. Talbot almost got lucky and had it hit him. If you don't want to get scored on, don't let guys like Laine get the puck wide open in your slot, and don't screen your goalie.

Koskinen let in worse goals than that against Colorado.

https://www.nhl.com/video/laines-shot-trickles-through/t-300 007550/c-63919903

There is the link to the goal. Talbot saw the shot because he moved to it. The shot hits Talbot right in the glove. It was a good shot from a good shooter but if you are able to move your glove and get that much of it, you should have stopped it in my opinion. No excuse for the winner in my books. That shot can't go in. He wasn't bad last night but I don't think he was good either. With a depleted line up, the Oilers margin for error was basically zero. They managed to score 4 goals on a really good team on the road in a tough building with a brutal defense. You should win those games when that happens. I had this as a guaranteed loss night so the fact they got a point is awesome but for them to win last night, they needed their goalie to be real good. He wasn't.

[Updated on: Fri, 14 December 2018 10:01]

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #32) [message #725024 is a reply to message #725022 ]
Fri, 14 December 2018 09:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 09:54

Kr55 wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 09:48

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 08:39

Ragnarok73 wrote on Thu, 13 December 2018 20:46

I'm not blaming this on Talbot entirely, though I would rather have seen Koski take over after the 3rd goal. The Oil defense just leaked shots and chances all night, and you can't do that against a team that has the firepower that the Jets do. There is only so much Hitch can do when he has to work with inferior players like Garrison.

This is where I will say: Fire Chia, because he "gifted" Garrison and Wideman to this team.


I agree with you. I wasn't a big fan of the Laine goal. Laine got off a good shot from a good area but he didn't pick a corner. He put it right through Talbot. If your goalie is getting that much of a shot, that to me says you should have stopped it. The winner was a bad goal. An unscreened wrist shot from a non high danger scoring area from a guy who has a career high 7 goals, you have to stop that. I am thankful for most of his effort and he helped get them the point but when your team scores you 4 goals, you should win most of those games. But when your goalie has .875%, you aren't winning very often.


Pretty sure Gravel put on a perfect screen on Talbot for the Laine goal. Laine in the slot, goalie screened. If Laine shoots that puck in a place that isn't already covered by the goalie, it's going in. Talbot almost got lucky and had it hit him. If you don't want to get scored on, don't let guys like Laine get the puck wide open in your slot, and don't screen your goalie.

Koskinen let in worse goals than that against Colorado.

https://www.nhl.com/video/laines-shot-trickles-through/t-300 007550/c-63919903

There is the link to the goal. Talbot saw the shot because he moved to it. The shot hits Talbot right in the glove. It was a good shot from a good shooter but if you are able to move your glove and get that much of it, you should have stopped it in my opinion. No excuse for the winner in my books. That shot can't go in.


Yeah, maybe not a full screen looking again.

Still think it's too close though to be able to properly react to the shot. You can guess approximately where the shot is going watching the release, but if your guess it wrong, it's going in. There is no time to adjust once the puck is released for your brain to send the signal to move your arm. That was one for the guys with the huge cheater gloves. Maybe Kosiknen has one of those though :)

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #32) [message #725074 is a reply to message #725022 ]
Fri, 14 December 2018 15:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 09:54

Kr55 wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 09:48

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 08:39

Ragnarok73 wrote on Thu, 13 December 2018 20:46

I'm not blaming this on Talbot entirely, though I would rather have seen Koski take over after the 3rd goal. The Oil defense just leaked shots and chances all night, and you can't do that against a team that has the firepower that the Jets do. There is only so much Hitch can do when he has to work with inferior players like Garrison.

This is where I will say: Fire Chia, because he "gifted" Garrison and Wideman to this team.


I agree with you. I wasn't a big fan of the Laine goal. Laine got off a good shot from a good area but he didn't pick a corner. He put it right through Talbot. If your goalie is getting that much of a shot, that to me says you should have stopped it. The winner was a bad goal. An unscreened wrist shot from a non high danger scoring area from a guy who has a career high 7 goals, you have to stop that. I am thankful for most of his effort and he helped get them the point but when your team scores you 4 goals, you should win most of those games. But when your goalie has .875%, you aren't winning very often.


Pretty sure Gravel put on a perfect screen on Talbot for the Laine goal. Laine in the slot, goalie screened. If Laine shoots that puck in a place that isn't already covered by the goalie, it's going in. Talbot almost got lucky and had it hit him. If you don't want to get scored on, don't let guys like Laine get the puck wide open in your slot, and don't screen your goalie.

Koskinen let in worse goals than that against Colorado.

https://www.nhl.com/video/laines-shot-trickles-through/t-300 007550/c-63919903

There is the link to the goal. Talbot saw the shot because he moved to it. The shot hits Talbot right in the glove. It was a good shot from a good shooter but if you are able to move your glove and get that much of it, you should have stopped it in my opinion. No excuse for the winner in my books. That shot can't go in. He wasn't bad last night but I don't think he was good either. With a depleted line up, the Oilers margin for error was basically zero. They managed to score 4 goals on a really good team on the road in a tough building with a brutal defense. You should win those games when that happens. I had this as a guaranteed loss night so the fact they got a point is awesome but for them to win last night, they needed their goalie to be real good. He wasn't.


Just to follow up on this. I was confused still why Talbot reacted that goal like he did. I thought he reacted like he did because of the screen, but as you said he does move the glove. Turns out what happened was the puck hit Gravel's glove on the way to the net and dipped. That's why Talbot looked confused of where that puck hit him and landed. Just bad luck. No good replays that can show it, but seen a couple people now in media say that's what happened.

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #32) [message #725091 is a reply to message #725074 ]
Fri, 14 December 2018 18:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Kr55 wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 15:24



Just to follow up on this. I was confused still why Talbot reacted that goal like he did. I thought he reacted like he did because of the screen, but as you said he does move the glove. Turns out what happened was the puck hit Gravel's glove on the way to the net and dipped. That's why Talbot looked confused of where that puck hit him and landed. Just bad luck. No good replays that can show it, but seen a couple people now in media say that's what happened.


It looked like Gravel was pissed off after it went in, they way he grabbed his stick and slapped it down after. Seemed like guilt. Wouldn't blame Talbot nor Gravel- just a thing that happens.

Gravel, however, has been causing a few deflections on shots that end up handcuffing the goalies. Needs to adjust to the pro game - that's stuff that can be coached out of a dman. Give the goalie the shot completely or block it completely but don't whiffle about screening, deflecting or redirecting.

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #32) [message #725092 is a reply to message #725091 ]
Fri, 14 December 2018 18:28 Go to previous message
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stemhovlichski wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 18:23

Kr55 wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 15:24



Just to follow up on this. I was confused still why Talbot reacted that goal like he did. I thought he reacted like he did because of the screen, but as you said he does move the glove. Turns out what happened was the puck hit Gravel's glove on the way to the net and dipped. That's why Talbot looked confused of where that puck hit him and landed. Just bad luck. No good replays that can show it, but seen a couple people now in media say that's what happened.


It looked like Gravel was pissed off after it went in, they way he grabbed his stick and slapped it down after. Seemed like guilt. Wouldn't blame Talbot nor Gravel- just a thing that happens.

Gravel, however, has been causing a few deflections on shots that end up handcuffing the goalies. Needs to adjust to the pro game - that's stuff that can be coached out of a dman. Give the goalie the shot completely or block it completely but don't whiffle about screening, deflecting or redirecting.




Yeah, I don't blame Gravel either. He's playing tough minutes now for the first time, and he's actually handling it well for the most part. Really need to give a break to all the D right now, almost every guys is playing above their comfort zone. Just gotta hope it works out. And if we do survive pretty well, boy is it exciting to potentially have Klef, Russell and possibly even Sek back in ~1-2 months.

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #32) [message #725023 is a reply to message #725019 ]
Fri, 14 December 2018 09:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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Kr55 wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 09:48

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 14 December 2018 08:39

Ragnarok73 wrote on Thu, 13 December 2018 20:46

I'm not blaming this on Talbot entirely, though I would rather have seen Koski take over after the 3rd goal. The Oil defense just leaked shots and chances all night, and you can't do that against a team that has the firepower that the Jets do. There is only so much Hitch can do when he has to work with inferior players like Garrison.

This is where I will say: Fire Chia, because he "gifted" Garrison and Wideman to this team.


I agree with you. I wasn't a big fan of the Laine goal. Laine got off a good shot from a good area but he didn't pick a corner. He put it right through Talbot. If your goalie is getting that much of a shot, that to me says you should have stopped it. The winner was a bad goal. An unscreened wrist shot from a non high danger scoring area from a guy who has a career high 7 goals, you have to stop that. I am thankful for most of his effort and he helped get them the point but when your team scores you 4 goals, you should win most of those games. But when your goalie has .875%, you aren't winning very often.


Pretty sure Gravel put on a perfect screen on Talbot for the Laine goal. Laine in the slot, goalie screened. If Laine shoots that puck in a place that isn't already covered by the goalie, it's going in. Talbot almost got lucky and had it hit him. If you don't want to get scored on, don't let guys like Laine get the puck wide open in your slot, and don't screen your goalie.

Koskinen let in worse goals than that against Colorado.


I think the attempt to designate goals as bad goals and expect none of them to go in is a fool's game. Every goalie lets in goals they would like to have back. Every single one. Even Hasek was beat by some long shots where he just missed. Fans excuse those goals for goalies that they like, and they focus on those goals for the goaltenders they mistrust. You have to look at the body of work. Last night, Talbot was likely exhausted by the OT, because he'd been standing in a shooting gallery. He certainly made a lot of saves, and probably outplayed the guy at the other end of the ice.

It's far from certain that game is any different with Koskinen in net.

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #32) [message #725026 is a reply to message #725023 ]
Fri, 14 December 2018 10:06 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
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On the bright side. I am really liking what Khaira is doing. I think I read he has 6 points in 7 games. The guy is big, can skate, seems to have some skill and seems to play WAY better with skilled players than on lower lines. I LOVED his goal and mostly because of that Puljujarvi did on that. I hope Hitch after that goal was in JP's ear pumping that kid up because man if he would do that more often, they might have the potential of a decent second line with those 2.

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