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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #680384 is a reply to message #625456 ]
Sun, 30 October 2016 14:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
feepa is currently offline feepa
Messages: 408
Registered: November 2002
Location: Edmonton
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Found this:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cv-ZQLbUsAEosxD.jpg

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #690867 is a reply to message #625456 ]
Wed, 12 April 2017 09:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose is currently offline Goose
Messages: 1098
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver
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Wasn't really sure where to put this, and I didn't want to hijack the pregame or playoff threads. But the Oilers have made the ludicrous decision to sell concourse only passes for the home playoff games. No seat. No view of the game. Just the experience of being able to wander around the rink as the game goes on, and the privilege of being able to buy an $18 Bobby Nick burger and eat it standing up. And for the low, low price of $80.

Oh, and it will make the experience for the actual ticket purchasers, the Tier 1 fans, slightly worse as the concourse will be more crowded and the lines for food and washrooms will be slightly longer.

Ryan Batty of Copper & Blue had some choice words for the Oilers:

Quote:

At this point, nothing that the Oilers do to make a buck should come as a surprise, but can we not all agree that this is completely unnecessary? Oh, and $80, are you kidding me?...It doesn’t matter if the Oilers sell 5, 50, 500, or 5,000 concourse tickets, all this does is diminish the game experience of the fans who paid big money for a ticket that included not just entry, but a seat as well. The lines for beer, for food, for the bathrooms will all be just a little bit longer. No big deal, I can always catch the next payoff game. That’ll be before 2028, right?


http://www.coppernblue.com/2017/4/12/15270284/oilers-playoff -tickets-concourse-80-damn-dollars-worst-idea-ever

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #690870 is a reply to message #690867 ]
Wed, 12 April 2017 09:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 10779
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
6 Cups
Goose wrote on Wed, 12 April 2017 09:41

Wasn't really sure where to put this, and I didn't want to hijack the pregame or playoff threads. But the Oilers have made the ludicrous decision to sell concourse only passes for the home playoff games. No seat. No view of the game. Just the experience of being able to wander around the rink as the game goes on, and the privilege of being able to buy an $18 Bobby Nick burger and eat it standing up. And for the low, low price of $80.

Oh, and it will make the experience for the actual ticket purchasers, the Tier 1 fans, slightly worse as the concourse will be more crowded and the lines for food and washrooms will be slightly longer.

Ryan Batty of Copper & Blue had some choice words for the Oilers:

Quote:

At this point, nothing that the Oilers do to make a buck should come as a surprise, but can we not all agree that this is completely unnecessary? Oh, and $80, are you kidding me?...It doesn’t matter if the Oilers sell 5, 50, 500, or 5,000 concourse tickets, all this does is diminish the game experience of the fans who paid big money for a ticket that included not just entry, but a seat as well. The lines for beer, for food, for the bathrooms will all be just a little bit longer. No big deal, I can always catch the next payoff game. That’ll be before 2028, right?


http://www.coppernblue.com/2017/4/12/15270284/oilers-playoff -tickets-concourse-80-damn-dollars-worst-idea-ever


I don't get that at all personally, but I don't doubt many people will buy those tickets up (are they already sold out?). People want to say they were there I suppose. I'm more than happy to cheer with others watching the game on TV if I can't get a real seat in Rogers Place.

Wonder if there will be fights over seats with concourse people trying to sneak in what they think are empty seats.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

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- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #690871 is a reply to message #690870 ]
Wed, 12 April 2017 09:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bigEfromGP is currently offline bigEfromGP
Messages: 816
Registered: July 2006
Location: GP, AB
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I can just imagine the effect it will have on the upper drink rail seats. Having people hang off the rails behind you was already bad enough, and those people had seats.

CrusaderPi wrote on Fri, 09 October 2020 13:17

CrudeRemarks wrote on Fri, 09 October 2020 13:00

The president thinks he has the ideal male body.
It's hard to disagree that he has the ideal male body.

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #690872 is a reply to message #690870 ]
Wed, 12 April 2017 09:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose is currently offline Goose
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Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 12 April 2017 08:45


I don't get that at all personally, but I don't doubt many people will buy those tickets up (are they already sold out?). People want to say they were there I suppose. I'm more than happy to cheer with others watching the game on TV if I can't get a real seat in Rogers Place.

Wonder if there will be fights over seats with concourse people trying to sneak in what they think are empty seats.


For sure I think people will buy them. But at some point I think trying to squeeze every last dollar out of your fanbase will start to backfire on you. Especially if, as you said, the people with the concourse tickets start to encroach on the people with regular tickets. And that scenario is pretty much inevitable imo.

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #690875 is a reply to message #690872 ]
Wed, 12 April 2017 10:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm is currently offline Oscargasm
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Goose wrote on Wed, 12 April 2017 09:56

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 12 April 2017 08:45


I don't get that at all personally, but I don't doubt many people will buy those tickets up (are they already sold out?). People want to say they were there I suppose. I'm more than happy to cheer with others watching the game on TV if I can't get a real seat in Rogers Place.

Wonder if there will be fights over seats with concourse people trying to sneak in what they think are empty seats.


For sure I think people will buy them. But at some point I think trying to squeeze every last dollar out of your fanbase will start to backfire on you. Especially if, as you said, the people with the concourse tickets start to encroach on the people with regular tickets. And that scenario is pretty much inevitable imo.


You would hope Rogers Place beefs up their staffing for Playoff games and has multiple staff at each entrance to the seating areas from the concourse. Only way to hinder "Concourse Ticket" purchasers from entering the seating areas is having people check tickets to enter the seating area which slows entry and causes more of a cluster on the concourse.

I imagine Ford Hall will be littered with people? Winter Garden could/would provide a better alternative to having these concourse tickets.


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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #690885 is a reply to message #690875 ]
Wed, 12 April 2017 11:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
McDavid97 is currently offline McDavid97
Messages: 99
Registered: July 2007
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OilMJMOil wrote on Wed, 12 April 2017 10:04

Goose wrote on Wed, 12 April 2017 09:56

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 12 April 2017 08:45


I don't get that at all personally, but I don't doubt many people will buy those tickets up (are they already sold out?). People want to say they were there I suppose. I'm more than happy to cheer with others watching the game on TV if I can't get a real seat in Rogers Place.

Wonder if there will be fights over seats with concourse people trying to sneak in what they think are empty seats.


For sure I think people will buy them. But at some point I think trying to squeeze every last dollar out of your fanbase will start to backfire on you. Especially if, as you said, the people with the concourse tickets start to encroach on the people with regular tickets. And that scenario is pretty much inevitable imo.


You would hope Rogers Place beefs up their staffing for Playoff games and has multiple staff at each entrance to the seating areas from the concourse. Only way to hinder "Concourse Ticket" purchasers from entering the seating areas is having people check tickets to enter the seating area which slows entry and causes more of a cluster on the concourse.

I imagine Ford Hall will be littered with people? Winter Garden could/would provide a better alternative to having these concourse tickets.



Ya it's already bad enough how long the lines are for food, drink and bathrooms and this is going to make it worse. Anything to capitalize on the money. I can't wait until there are fights from people that sit down in someone else chair. Not to mention them having to get up during play (which typically happens) and block the view for others in that section. Charge money to be in ford hall where people want to be next to the action, sure, but not where it's already packed in inside. I can't see how this goes well and will just have people upset but do they really care because tickets sell so easy here.

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #690899 is a reply to message #690885 ]
Wed, 12 April 2017 12:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bigEfromGP is currently offline bigEfromGP
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Contacted our report, and he's strongly defending it, saying that all 4 major sports do this and that staffing has been increased to handle the demand. We'll see.

Re: Ford Hall, they would have to move the security gates to make this work, it sure the viability of that.

CrusaderPi wrote on Fri, 09 October 2020 13:17

CrudeRemarks wrote on Fri, 09 October 2020 13:00

The president thinks he has the ideal male body.
It's hard to disagree that he has the ideal male body.

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #694739 is a reply to message #625456 ]
Tue, 16 May 2017 23:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose is currently offline Goose
Messages: 1098
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver
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Well this has gone pretty much as expected.

Quote:

Edmonton’s downtown office vacancy rate nearly doubled in the past year, and a balanced market might not re-emerge for decades, speakers told a real estate conference Thursday...“A healthy balanced market is seven to eight per cent vacancy. At 15 per cent, yes, landlords should be worried,” Phil Goh, senior vice-president at Colliers International, told the Edmonton Real Estate Forum at the Shaw Conference Centre.

He predicted vacancies could reach 18 per cent to 20 per cent next year as companies move into the 66-storey Stantec Tower, scheduled to be completed in October 2018, and other new locations.


http://edmontonjournal.com/business/commercial-real-estate/e dmontons-office-vacancy-rate-almost-doubles-to-15-per-cent

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #694740 is a reply to message #694739 ]
Tue, 16 May 2017 23:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
MJ is currently offline MJ
Messages: 267
Registered: November 1997
Location: Victoria
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This is no surprise. The shell game continues. This was a poor deal for the city and the taxpayers of Edmonton. Time to move ahead I guess.

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #694741 is a reply to message #694740 ]
Wed, 17 May 2017 00:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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I mean, yes, but you can't blame the arena for the economy cratering and the NDP doing what NDP governments tends to do. The real troubles will come if a Klein style government is elected and does what a '93 era Klein style government tends to do. If bloated government work forces get cut down like the private sector did over the last two years that vacancy rate will explode.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #694743 is a reply to message #694741 ]
Wed, 17 May 2017 07:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose is currently offline Goose
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Location: Vancouver
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CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 16 May 2017 23:14

I mean, yes, but you can't blame the arena for the economy cratering and the NDP doing what NDP governments tends to do. The real troubles will come if a Klein style government is elected and does what a '93 era Klein style government tends to do. If bloated government work forces get cut down like the private sector did over the last two years that vacancy rate will explode.


Haha just like you can't blame the NDP for low oil prices, but that's a topic for another thread.

But that's kind of beside the point. All the new buildings inside the CRL were always going to pull from other areas of the City, even in a good economy. It was never going to be net new tax dollars that were going to magically pay for the arena. The current economy only exacerbates and amplifies the problem.

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #694745 is a reply to message #694743 ]
Wed, 17 May 2017 08:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Location: AB Highway 100
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Goose wrote on Wed, 17 May 2017 07:48

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 16 May 2017 23:14

I mean, yes, but you can't blame the arena for the economy cratering and the NDP doing what NDP governments tends to do. The real troubles will come if a Klein style government is elected and does what a '93 era Klein style government tends to do. If bloated government work forces get cut down like the private sector did over the last two years that vacancy rate will explode.


Haha just like you can't blame the NDP for low oil prices, but that's a topic for another thread.

But that's kind of beside the point. All the new buildings inside the CRL were always going to pull from other areas of the City, even in a good economy. It was never going to be net new tax dollars that were going to magically pay for the arena. The current economy only exacerbates and amplifies the problem.

Hey, I used the word 'and' to create separate independent clauses... I think. I'm not sure I ever get that correct.

Agree and agree. Building an arena was always going to be like buying a new pair of sweatpants and growing into them.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #694744 is a reply to message #694739 ]
Wed, 17 May 2017 07:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
feepa is currently offline feepa
Messages: 408
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Location: Edmonton
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Goose wrote on Tue, 16 May 2017 23:29

Well this has gone pretty much as expected.

Quote:

Edmonton’s downtown office vacancy rate nearly doubled in the past year, and a balanced market might not re-emerge for decades, speakers told a real estate conference Thursday...“A healthy balanced market is seven to eight per cent vacancy. At 15 per cent, yes, landlords should be worried,” Phil Goh, senior vice-president at Colliers International, told the Edmonton Real Estate Forum at the Shaw Conference Centre.

He predicted vacancies could reach 18 per cent to 20 per cent next year as companies move into the 66-storey Stantec Tower, scheduled to be completed in October 2018, and other new locations.


http://edmontonjournal.com/business/commercial-real-estate/e dmontons-office-vacancy-rate-almost-doubles-to-15-per-cent


Kind of expected with new towers coming online and eating up all the class AAA tenants. Lower class towers will upgrade, or convert to condo towers. A higher vacancy rate will bring lower prices, which may attract some offices from business parks around the suburbs.

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #694748 is a reply to message #694739 ]
Wed, 17 May 2017 10:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NetBOG is currently offline NetBOG
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Goose wrote on Tue, 16 May 2017 23:29

Well this has gone pretty much as expected.

Quote:

Edmonton’s downtown office vacancy rate nearly doubled in the past year, and a balanced market might not re-emerge for decades, speakers told a real estate conference Thursday...“A healthy balanced market is seven to eight per cent vacancy. At 15 per cent, yes, landlords should be worried,” Phil Goh, senior vice-president at Colliers International, told the Edmonton Real Estate Forum at the Shaw Conference Centre.

He predicted vacancies could reach 18 per cent to 20 per cent next year as companies move into the 66-storey Stantec Tower, scheduled to be completed in October 2018, and other new locations.


http://edmontonjournal.com/business/commercial-real-estate/e dmontons-office-vacancy-rate-almost-doubles-to-15-per-cent


If only someone had predicted the CRL was just a giant shell game to make it look like the Arena wasn't costing the taxpayer 600 Million +. Oh wait, I did multiple times in this thread and the previous Arena threads. And I don't have a fancy degree in finance or urban planning.

This is only the start of the issues that the city is going to face to finance a 'tax money free' Arena.

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #694858 is a reply to message #694748 ]
Sat, 20 May 2017 11:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rocksteady is currently offline Rocksteady
Messages: 527
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NetBOG wrote on Wed, 17 May 2017 10:53

If only someone had predicted the CRL was just a giant shell game to make it look like the Arena wasn't costing the taxpayer 600 Million +. Oh wait, I did multiple times in this thread and the previous Arena threads. And I don't have a fancy degree in finance or urban planning.

This is only the start of the issues that the city is going to face to finance a 'tax money free' Arena.


I wasn't going to answer this because it's another defend the arena thing, but one question pops into my head when I read your thought.. "would it be better than a parking lot?" the answer is a resounding yes.

Is the CRL a shell game, well yeah it is by design, the CRL pays for the arena by diverting tax money from the surrounding properties into a payment schedule rather than to the city. So from its very inception the levy is being diverted from city tax coffers, no secret shell game, it's all spelled out.

The fact that the city vacancy rate has increased since the arena is because there are more office space and people from the outer reaches of the city are moving toward and into the ice district. Which by the way helps out to pay down the debt of the arena and hopefully eliminate the debt..

Look, I'm not wading far into the waters of conflicting "I told you so" posts, but in the end the arena is GREAT for the community and it's a jewel for this city. You can shake your fist at the structure how it was built or whatever else you'd like to complain about but in the end, the arena is excellent for Edmonton.

...still... WAY better than a parking lot.

The very definition of insanity is doing the exact same thing expecting different results.

Generally Disappointed.

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #698888 is a reply to message #694858 ]
Tue, 12 September 2017 15:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GabbyDugan is currently offline GabbyDugan
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/ice-district-towers-c onstruction-1.4286093

....too much too fast? Or perfect timing?....


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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #698906 is a reply to message #698888 ]
Wed, 13 September 2017 11:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GabbyDugan is currently offline GabbyDugan
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Location: Edmonton, AB
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..and Northlands Coliseum will be mothballed...no multi ice sheets for minor hockey, etc. ....

...a bittersweet ending for a place with some fabulous memories and the scene of some great hockey, concerts and other events...

....the location is a pretty sketchy part of the city.....hope the future for that part of town starts to trend in a much more positive direction than it has in the past few decades

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/northlands-coliseum-c ity-horse-racing-1.4287527


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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #698912 is a reply to message #698906 ]
Wed, 13 September 2017 16:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ragnarok73 is currently offline Ragnarok73
Messages: 2419
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GabbyDugan wrote on Wed, 13 September 2017 11:39

..and Northlands Coliseum will be mothballed...no multi ice sheets for minor hockey, etc. ....

...a bittersweet ending for a place with some fabulous memories and the scene of some great hockey, concerts and other events...

....the location is a pretty sketchy part of the city.....hope the future for that part of town starts to trend in a much more positive direction than it has in the past few decades

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/northlands-coliseum-c ity-horse-racing-1.4287527

Uh, I don't see the area around Rexall improving much unless some SERIOUS development happens at or around Northlands. Horse racing isn't going to be the driver behind that development.

"There's no greater springboard to development than failure." - Craig MacTavish, April 13/15.

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #698914 is a reply to message #698912 ]
Wed, 13 September 2017 16:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Location: AB Highway 100
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Ragnarok73 wrote on Wed, 13 September 2017 16:02

GabbyDugan wrote on Wed, 13 September 2017 11:39

..and Northlands Coliseum will be mothballed...no multi ice sheets for minor hockey, etc. ....

...a bittersweet ending for a place with some fabulous memories and the scene of some great hockey, concerts and other events...

....the location is a pretty sketchy part of the city.....hope the future for that part of town starts to trend in a much more positive direction than it has in the past few decades

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/northlands-coliseum-c ity-horse-racing-1.4287527

Uh, I don't see the area around Rexall improving much unless some SERIOUS development happens at or around Northlands. Horse racing isn't going to be the driver behind that development.

Well... if you're Northlands, or whoever actually owns Northlands because I'm not sure what exactly Northlands is, and you're losing your hockey arena and horse track would you not consider redeveloping that whole plot of land into a mess a condos and commercial development to take advantage of the only asset they have there... the LRT station?

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #698917 is a reply to message #698914 ]
Thu, 14 September 2017 02:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 13 September 2017 16:28

Ragnarok73 wrote on Wed, 13 September 2017 16:02

GabbyDugan wrote on Wed, 13 September 2017 11:39

..and Northlands Coliseum will be mothballed...no multi ice sheets for minor hockey, etc. ....

...a bittersweet ending for a place with some fabulous memories and the scene of some great hockey, concerts and other events...

....the location is a pretty sketchy part of the city.....hope the future for that part of town starts to trend in a much more positive direction than it has in the past few decades

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/northlands-coliseum-c ity-horse-racing-1.4287527

Uh, I don't see the area around Rexall improving much unless some SERIOUS development happens at or around Northlands. Horse racing isn't going to be the driver behind that development.

Well... if you're Northlands, or whoever actually owns Northlands because I'm not sure what exactly Northlands is, and you're losing your hockey arena and horse track would you not consider redeveloping that whole plot of land into a mess a condos and commercial development to take advantage of the only asset they have there... the LRT station?


Northlands doesn't own much, if anything. The City owns the rink and the convention centre and the horse track. Northlands were involved in helping to fund and build the original rink, and then they were given responsibility to manage it.

And then they just dabbled in politics, acting as power brokers for a couple decades before they lost their influence, got caught out with bloated loans, and basically fell apart now.

They were the Good Ol' Boys in Edmonton and Alberta politics for a long, long time and it's probably for the best that their reach has been dramatically reduced.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #698919 is a reply to message #698917 ]
Thu, 14 September 2017 08:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Magnum is currently offline Magnum
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Adam wrote on Thu, 14 September 2017 02:02

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 13 September 2017 16:28

Ragnarok73 wrote on Wed, 13 September 2017 16:02

GabbyDugan wrote on Wed, 13 September 2017 11:39

..and Northlands Coliseum will be mothballed...no multi ice sheets for minor hockey, etc. ....

...a bittersweet ending for a place with some fabulous memories and the scene of some great hockey, concerts and other events...

....the location is a pretty sketchy part of the city.....hope the future for that part of town starts to trend in a much more positive direction than it has in the past few decades

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/northlands-coliseum-c ity-horse-racing-1.4287527

Uh, I don't see the area around Rexall improving much unless some SERIOUS development happens at or around Northlands. Horse racing isn't going to be the driver behind that development.

Well... if you're Northlands, or whoever actually owns Northlands because I'm not sure what exactly Northlands is, and you're losing your hockey arena and horse track would you not consider redeveloping that whole plot of land into a mess a condos and commercial development to take advantage of the only asset they have there... the LRT station?


Northlands doesn't own much, if anything. The City owns the rink and the convention centre and the horse track. Northlands were involved in helping to fund and build the original rink, and then they were given responsibility to manage it.

And then they just dabbled in politics, acting as power brokers for a couple decades before they lost their influence, got caught out with bloated loans, and basically fell apart now.

They were the Good Ol' Boys in Edmonton and Alberta politics for a long, long time and it's probably for the best that their reach has been dramatically reduced.


Does the City own the land?

2015/2016 - This Kool-Aid tastes like McDavid flavoured Drain-O.
2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.
2017/2018 - I'm drinking this Kool-Aid, in hopes that it's Drain-O.
2018/2019 - Another round of Drain-O, good sir!

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #698928 is a reply to message #698919 ]
Thu, 14 September 2017 09:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Greg is currently offline Greg
Messages: 18
Registered: October 2006
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Yes, the City owns the land and Northlands has a land use lease until 2034.

It's all spelled out in their financial statement: http://www.northlands.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Edmonto n-Northlands-Audited-Financial-Statements-31-Dec-2016.pdf

[Updated on: Thu, 14 September 2017 09:59]

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #699729 is a reply to message #625456 ]
Fri, 06 October 2017 13:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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Always fun to compare the concepts to the final result.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/polopoly_fs/1.1673911.1391716330!/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_960/image.jpg

https://i.cbc.ca/1.3994607.1487794982!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_1180/edmonton-tower.jpg

Actually close when you really look at it. Lots of effects in the concept that can only exist with some CGI magic.

[Updated on: Fri, 06 October 2017 13:18]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #716469 is a reply to message #625456 ]
Fri, 29 June 2018 12:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NetBOG is currently offline NetBOG
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Oilers are now asking for nearly $10 million more from the city in funding for improvements to the plaza at the south entrance to Rogers Centre.

We don't know what they actually want the money for, because City Council has decided to meet in private to discuss the details. i'm assuming the money will come from the same imaginary pool of money that the last $25 million the city 'unexpectedly' had to pay came from. This arena deal just gets worse and worse (who predicted that?) over time.

http://edmontonjournal.com/news/local-news/david-staples-cit y-should-be-cautious-about-new-ice-district-deal-with-katz-g roup?video_autoplay=true

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #716471 is a reply to message #716469 ]
Fri, 29 June 2018 14:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
feepa is currently offline feepa
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NetBOG wrote on Fri, 29 June 2018 12:51

Oilers are now asking for nearly $10 million more from the city in funding for improvements to the plaza at the south entrance to Rogers Centre.

We don't know what they actually want the money for, because City Council has decided to meet in private to discuss the details. i'm assuming the money will come from the same imaginary pool of money that the last $25 million the city 'unexpectedly' had to pay came from. This arena deal just gets worse and worse (who predicted that?) over time.

http://edmontonjournal.com/news/local-news/david-staples-cit y-should-be-cautious-about-new-ice-district-deal-with-katz-g roup?video_autoplay=true


This is for extras not originally proposed. The city can say no, and everything that was still planned in the plaza will still be built.

I get that some people don't like the deal Katz struck with the city, but that's water well under the bridge. This is for this over and above the original deal.

that terrible arena deal

When the arena deal was made it 2013, council hoped the CRL would at the very least get $597 million in new property taxes over 20 years. But due to major skyscraper and hotel projects already being built, the city now expects to collect at least $675 million. This means there’s now $187 million in undesignated funds which are directed to be invested only in downtown infrastructure.

The Katz Group isn’t talking but might point out that it is its investment that is by far the biggest driver of the CRL.

[Updated on: Fri, 29 June 2018 14:10]

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #740432 is a reply to message #716471 ]
Sun, 14 July 2019 10:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GabbyDugan is currently offline GabbyDugan
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The Katz Group reveals their concepts for development of the old Baccarat Casino site, and beyond.

https://globalnews.ca/news/5492313/downtown-edmonton-ice-dis trict-phase-two-12-towers/

Pretty ambitiuos, to say the least. With Blatchford finally getting underway and development of the old Muttart lumber yard near Commonwealth Stadium also being planned after decades of sitting idle, lots of opportunities to erase some of the blight in the urban core. The only question I have is where do the homeless go (coming to a neighbourhood near you?)


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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #740433 is a reply to message #740432 ]
Sun, 14 July 2019 10:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NetBOG is currently offline NetBOG
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GabbyDugan wrote on Sun, 14 July 2019 10:21

The Katz Group reveals their concepts for development of the old Baccarat Casino site, and beyond.

https://globalnews.ca/news/5492313/downtown-edmonton-ice-dis trict-phase-two-12-towers/

Pretty ambitiuos, to say the least. With Blatchford finally getting underway and development of the old Muttart lumber yard near Commonwealth Stadium also being planned after decades of sitting idle, lots of opportunities to erase some of the blight in the urban core. The only question I have is where do the homeless go (coming to a neighbourhood near you?)



They already cratered the property values of existing office buildings, now it's time for them to crater the property values of residential buildings. Yay for Katz.

And when are we going to get a plaza? This city is used to slow but shouldn't that have been done years ago (with taxpayer money no less)?

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #740434 is a reply to message #740433 ]
Sun, 14 July 2019 11:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Who is buying all the condos that are being built downtown? I mean, other than Chinese people hiding money from the communist government.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #740438 is a reply to message #740434 ]
Sun, 14 July 2019 14:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ragnarok73 is currently offline Ragnarok73
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CrusaderPi wrote on Sun, 14 July 2019 11:30

Who is buying all the condos that are being built downtown? I mean, other than Chinese people hiding money from the communist government.

Psh, why do you think the new casino exists? They needed to give those Chinese a place to invest their money!

"There's no greater springboard to development than failure." - Craig MacTavish, April 13/15.

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"Sabres think the suck is their ally? They merely adopted the suck. The Oilers were born in it...molded by it."

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #740490 is a reply to message #740438 ]
Tue, 16 July 2019 09:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Ragnarok73 wrote on Sun, 14 July 2019 13:11

CrusaderPi wrote on Sun, 14 July 2019 11:30

Who is buying all the condos that are being built downtown? I mean, other than Chinese people hiding money from the communist government.

Psh, why do you think the new casino exists? They needed to give those Chinese a place to invest their money!


Should really be called a laundry-mat, checkout what happened, is happening, in Vancouver with their casinos, full judicial inquiry to come...

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P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #740439 is a reply to message #740433 ]
Sun, 14 July 2019 14:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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NetBOG wrote on Sun, 14 July 2019 10:58

GabbyDugan wrote on Sun, 14 July 2019 10:21

The Katz Group reveals their concepts for development of the old Baccarat Casino site, and beyond.

https://globalnews.ca/news/5492313/downtown-edmonton-ice-dis trict-phase-two-12-towers/

Pretty ambitiuos, to say the least. With Blatchford finally getting underway and development of the old Muttart lumber yard near Commonwealth Stadium also being planned after decades of sitting idle, lots of opportunities to erase some of the blight in the urban core. The only question I have is where do the homeless go (coming to a neighbourhood near you?)



They already cratered the property values of existing office buildings, now it's time for them to crater the property values of residential buildings. Yay for Katz.

And when are we going to get a plaza? This city is used to slow but shouldn't that have been done years ago (with taxpayer money no less)?


I suppose inexpensive real estate "should" be attractive for businesses looking for a home. Can we actually find a way here to take advantage of that? Oil industry is going to be in just maintenance and sustainment mode for quite some time now, if not ever until an eventual decline. Gotta figure out how to get more stuff going here.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #740479 is a reply to message #625456 ]
Mon, 15 July 2019 18:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
philly boy is currently offline philly boy
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The more I read about this the more I feel like Katz is trying to realize his own, smaller version of the Hudson Yards, which is an nouveau riche, tacky and pretentious abomination of a development.

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #740602 is a reply to message #740479 ]
Wed, 17 July 2019 14:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Magnum is currently offline Magnum
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I'm taking the bait.

Stauffer said that there might be some changes in ownership.

Katz son taking over?

2015/2016 - This Kool-Aid tastes like McDavid flavoured Drain-O.
2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.
2017/2018 - I'm drinking this Kool-Aid, in hopes that it's Drain-O.
2018/2019 - Another round of Drain-O, good sir!

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #740604 is a reply to message #740602 ]
Wed, 17 July 2019 15:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Magnum wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 14:48

I'm taking the bait.

Stauffer said that there might be some changes in ownership.

Katz son taking over?

Wow. That would be interesting. I think it's worth a new speculation thread.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #740606 is a reply to message #740604 ]
Wed, 17 July 2019 16:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Magnum is currently offline Magnum
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CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 15:34

Magnum wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 14:48

I'm taking the bait.

Stauffer said that there might be some changes in ownership.

Katz son taking over?

Wow. That would be interesting. I think it's worth a new speculation thread.


What if Katz sold or gifted it to the surviving 80s Oilers with the caveat that Lowe was the President of Hockey Operations in perpetuity?

2015/2016 - This Kool-Aid tastes like McDavid flavoured Drain-O.
2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.
2017/2018 - I'm drinking this Kool-Aid, in hopes that it's Drain-O.
2018/2019 - Another round of Drain-O, good sir!

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #740607 is a reply to message #740606 ]
Wed, 17 July 2019 16:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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Location: Edmonton
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Magnum wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 16:11

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 15:34

Magnum wrote on Wed, 17 July 2019 14:48

I'm taking the bait.

Stauffer said that there might be some changes in ownership.

Katz son taking over?

Wow. That would be interesting. I think it's worth a new speculation thread.


What if Katz sold or gifted it to the surviving 80s Oilers with the caveat that Lowe was the President of Hockey Operations in perpetuity?


Yeah, I was thinking he probably will sell to Lowe for $1, as long as Lowe promises to never fire Kevin Lowe, and ensure there is always at least 1 Lowe in the organization.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #743285 is a reply to message #740607 ]
Wed, 25 September 2019 10:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GabbyDugan is currently offline GabbyDugan
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The new arena still is pumping up property values in the vicinity of Rogers Place.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/stantec-tower-ice-di strict-edmonton-katz-1.5296464

"The Katz Group has sold the commercial portion of the new 69-storey Stantec Tower in Edmonton's Ice District to Deka Immobilien, a news release said Wednesday.

A statement on the German company's website puts the sale price at around 345-million euros — the equivalent of about $503 million."

Half a billion dollars for one office tower in Edmonton. I wonder what West Edmonton Mall, which drew all the oxygen out of Downtown Edmonton for about three decades, is valued at today.

Smooth move, Katz Group.


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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #745679 is a reply to message #743285 ]
Fri, 25 October 2019 23:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gator21 is currently offline Gator21
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"When the Rogers Place arena opened in downtown Edmonton in September 2016, no amount of buzz could drown out the rumours of manipulation, secret deals, and corporate greed undergirding the project. Working with documentary evidence and original interviews, the authors present an absorbing account of the machinations that got the arena and the adjacent Ice District built, with a price tag of more than $600 million. The arena deal, they argue, established a costly public financing precedent that people across North America should watch closely, as many cities consider building sports facilities for professional teams or international competitions. Their analysis brings clarity and nuance to a case shrouded in secrecy and understood by few besides political and business insiders. Power Play tells a dramatic story about clashing priorities where sports, money, and municipal power meet"

https://www.uap.ualberta.ca/titles/960-9781772124934-power-p lay

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #745680 is a reply to message #745679 ]
Sat, 26 October 2019 09:06 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
CrudeRemarks is currently offline CrudeRemarks
Messages: 1703
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Gator21 wrote on Fri, 25 October 2019 23:49

"When the Rogers Place arena opened in downtown Edmonton in September 2016, no amount of buzz could drown out the rumours of manipulation, secret deals, and corporate greed undergirding the project. Working with documentary evidence and original interviews, the authors present an absorbing account of the machinations that got the arena and the adjacent Ice District built, with a price tag of more than $600 million. The arena deal, they argue, established a costly public financing precedent that people across North America should watch closely, as many cities consider building sports facilities for professional teams or international competitions. Their analysis brings clarity and nuance to a case shrouded in secrecy and understood by few besides political and business insiders. Power Play tells a dramatic story about clashing priorities where sports, money, and municipal power meet"

https://www.uap.ualberta.ca/titles/960-9781772124934-power-p lay

I notice Linda Sloan is a co-author. She was anti-arena from the beginning. Not to say there weren’t any back room deals but that makes me expect these aren’t neutral observers writing this book.

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #745685 is a reply to message #745679 ]
Sat, 26 October 2019 13:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
philly boy is currently offline philly boy
Messages: 135
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Gator21 wrote on Fri, 25 October 2019 23:49

"When the Rogers Place arena opened in downtown Edmonton in September 2016, no amount of buzz could drown out the rumours of manipulation, secret deals, and corporate greed undergirding the project. Working with documentary evidence and original interviews, the authors present an absorbing account of the machinations that got the arena and the adjacent Ice District built, with a price tag of more than $600 million. The arena deal, they argue, established a costly public financing precedent that people across North America should watch closely, as many cities consider building sports facilities for professional teams or international competitions. Their analysis brings clarity and nuance to a case shrouded in secrecy and understood by few besides political and business insiders. Power Play tells a dramatic story about clashing priorities where sports, money, and municipal power meet"

https://www.uap.ualberta.ca/titles/960-9781772124934-power-p lay


thanks so much for making us aware of this!

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