[Updated on: Wed, 13 July 2016 08:43]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 13 July 2016 03:45

Another analysis of Larsson. Still looking for the analysis from someone (other than the Oilers) that says this guy is a No.1 NHL defense-man, and not the second coming of Ladi Smid. In fact, as I recall Smid was heralded as a "future" a top pairing D-man as well when they traded away Chris F'ing Pronger. I'm getting sick of the people running/ruining this franchise. Shero looking like GM of the year. http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/ cult-of-hockey-an-in-depth-look-at-adam-larssons-game-by-gue st-analyst-cory-west Quote: I reviewed 13 random games from the 2015/2016 season and I think the results are somewhat interesting. I used games spread throughout the season and looked at some wins, losses and even a blow out of a game. The two most important takeaways from my review of Larsson and the devils are, firstly, Andy Greene is really, really good. As the incomparable Mike Johnson of Sportsnet said, “ I don’t often search out New Jersey Devil games” and I think most fans can say this but really this is a shame because Andy Greene is a gem. Secondly, the Devils play with a defensive zone structure that a handful of Oiler coaches and former coaches only can dream about. Training camp is going to be a shock for Mr. Larsson. However, if you’re reading a blog post on the Oilers you probably were not shocked by those synopsis of the Devils and you’re probably far more interested in Larsson than his former team but I think those points are worth reconsidering especially in the context of Larsson. So what is Larsson? Well, this is where things get interesting. Chiarelli has mentioned he is not sexy and after 13 games worth of shifts I am not sure that does him justice. I like all defensemen to be able to move the puck at some level. The days are gone of having a pylon out there that rings the puck off the glass and out every time he gets it. Larsson is not a puck mover. I don’t believe anyone can debate this. Much like blogger Mo “WheatNOil’ Sarda has pointed out in the mildly successful Sekera/Fayne pairing, the puck moving on the Greene/Larsson combo is almost entirely on Greene. I anticipate this is because Greene moves the puck very well, and Larsson isn’t great at this. In fact, I would be willing to bet that Adam Larsson’s now well documented, large percentage of defensive-zone starts is because the Devils simply have better options moving the puck in and around the offensive and neutral zones. Larsson has been said to have a good shot, and perhaps that is the case but he seldom (read never) gets it off in time and I think this really limits him. I hate seeing defensemen that don’t look up when shooting. If you can tell me how many eyelets are on your skates when after you take a shot then you aren’t going to be on my team for long and Larsson displayed this trait quite a bit late in the season. I actually can’t remember seeing a defenseman shoot the puck into so many bodies. (worse than the "Shin Assasin" Sekera?) Fellow New Jersey d-man Damon Severson is clearly superior at this and I would say John Moore and David Schlemko are also more offensively aware, and this is why Larsson doesn’t see many O-zone faceoffs.

I don't know. That whole thing reads like he watched those 13 games with a very biased eye. People see what they want to see with dmen. Subban gives the puck away all the time, he sucks. Karlsson can't play defense, he gives up more than he creates, he sucks. Petry is always out there when top players score and he gave the puck away that one time, he sucks. I used to always hate doug weight and was able to find something wrong with everything he did out on the ice. If you watch a player with a biased viewpoint, it's very easy to find a fault in almost everything they do, and just default to thinking anything good was luck or because he was helped by someone else.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 13 July 2016 08:23

Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 13 July 2016 03:45 Another analysis of Larsson. Still looking for the analysis from someone (other than the Oilers) that says this guy is a No.1 NHL defense-man, and not the second coming of Ladi Smid. In fact, as I recall Smid was heralded as a "future" a top pairing D-man as well when they traded away Chris F'ing Pronger. I'm getting sick of the people running/ruining this franchise. Shero looking like GM of the year. http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/ cult-of-hockey-an-in-depth-look-at-adam-larssons-game-by-gue st-analyst-cory-west Quote: I reviewed 13 random games from the 2015/2016 season and I think the results are somewhat interesting. I used games spread throughout the season and looked at some wins, losses and even a blow out of a game. The two most important takeaways from my review of Larsson and the devils are, firstly, Andy Greene is really, really good. As the incomparable Mike Johnson of Sportsnet said, “ I don’t often search out New Jersey Devil games” and I think most fans can say this but really this is a shame because Andy Greene is a gem. Secondly, the Devils play with a defensive zone structure that a handful of Oiler coaches and former coaches only can dream about. Training camp is going to be a shock for Mr. Larsson. However, if you’re reading a blog post on the Oilers you probably were not shocked by those synopsis of the Devils and you’re probably far more interested in Larsson than his former team but I think those points are worth reconsidering especially in the context of Larsson. So what is Larsson? Well, this is where things get interesting. Chiarelli has mentioned he is not sexy and after 13 games worth of shifts I am not sure that does him justice. I like all defensemen to be able to move the puck at some level. The days are gone of having a pylon out there that rings the puck off the glass and out every time he gets it. Larsson is not a puck mover. I don’t believe anyone can debate this. Much like blogger Mo “WheatNOil’ Sarda has pointed out in the mildly successful Sekera/Fayne pairing, the puck moving on the Greene/Larsson combo is almost entirely on Greene. I anticipate this is because Greene moves the puck very well, and Larsson isn’t great at this. In fact, I would be willing to bet that Adam Larsson’s now well documented, large percentage of defensive-zone starts is because the Devils simply have better options moving the puck in and around the offensive and neutral zones. Larsson has been said to have a good shot, and perhaps that is the case but he seldom (read never) gets it off in time and I think this really limits him. I hate seeing defensemen that don’t look up when shooting. If you can tell me how many eyelets are on your skates when after you take a shot then you aren’t going to be on my team for long and Larsson displayed this trait quite a bit late in the season. I actually can’t remember seeing a defenseman shoot the puck into so many bodies. (worse than the "Shin Assasin" Sekera?) Fellow New Jersey d-man Damon Severson is clearly superior at this and I would say John Moore and David Schlemko are also more offensively aware, and this is why Larsson doesn’t see many O-zone faceoffs. I don't know. That whole thing reads like he watched those 13 games with a very biased eye. People see what they want to see with dmen. Subban gives the puck away all the time, he sucks. Karlsson can't play defense, he gives up more than he creates, he sucks. Petry is always out there when top players score and he gave the puck away that one time, he sucks. I used to always hate doug weight and was able to find something wrong with everything he did out on the ice. If you watch a player with a biased viewpoint, it's very easy to find a fault in almost everything they do, and just default to thinking anything good was luck or because he was helped by someone else.

Some of us have the same problem when discussing Oilers management. Miss the playoffs for ten years, they suck. Waste the entry level contracts of 4 first overall picks, they suck. Allow for the continued employment of exactly one person, they suck.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

The very definition of insanity is doing the exact same thing expecting different results.

Generally Disappointed.

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 13 July 2016 07:23

Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 13 July 2016 03:45 Another analysis of Larsson. Still looking for the analysis from someone (other than the Oilers) that says this guy is a No.1 NHL defense-man, and not the second coming of Ladi Smid. In fact, as I recall Smid was heralded as a "future" a top pairing D-man as well when they traded away Chris F'ing Pronger. I'm getting sick of the people running/ruining this franchise. Shero looking like GM of the year. http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/ cult-of-hockey-an-in-depth-look-at-adam-larssons-game-by-gue st-analyst-cory-west Quote: I reviewed 13 random games from the 2015/2016 season and I think the results are somewhat interesting. I used games spread throughout the season and looked at some wins, losses and even a blow out of a game. The two most important takeaways from my review of Larsson and the devils are, firstly, Andy Greene is really, really good. As the incomparable Mike Johnson of Sportsnet said, “ I don’t often search out New Jersey Devil games” and I think most fans can say this but really this is a shame because Andy Greene is a gem. Secondly, the Devils play with a defensive zone structure that a handful of Oiler coaches and former coaches only can dream about. Training camp is going to be a shock for Mr. Larsson. However, if you’re reading a blog post on the Oilers you probably were not shocked by those synopsis of the Devils and you’re probably far more interested in Larsson than his former team but I think those points are worth reconsidering especially in the context of Larsson. So what is Larsson? Well, this is where things get interesting. Chiarelli has mentioned he is not sexy and after 13 games worth of shifts I am not sure that does him justice. I like all defensemen to be able to move the puck at some level. The days are gone of having a pylon out there that rings the puck off the glass and out every time he gets it. Larsson is not a puck mover. I don’t believe anyone can debate this. Much like blogger Mo “WheatNOil’ Sarda has pointed out in the mildly successful Sekera/Fayne pairing, the puck moving on the Greene/Larsson combo is almost entirely on Greene. I anticipate this is because Greene moves the puck very well, and Larsson isn’t great at this. In fact, I would be willing to bet that Adam Larsson’s now well documented, large percentage of defensive-zone starts is because the Devils simply have better options moving the puck in and around the offensive and neutral zones. Larsson has been said to have a good shot, and perhaps that is the case but he seldom (read never) gets it off in time and I think this really limits him. I hate seeing defensemen that don’t look up when shooting. If you can tell me how many eyelets are on your skates when after you take a shot then you aren’t going to be on my team for long and Larsson displayed this trait quite a bit late in the season. I actually can’t remember seeing a defenseman shoot the puck into so many bodies. (worse than the "Shin Assasin" Sekera?) Fellow New Jersey d-man Damon Severson is clearly superior at this and I would say John Moore and David Schlemko are also more offensively aware, and this is why Larsson doesn’t see many O-zone faceoffs. I don't know. That whole thing reads like he watched those 13 games with a very biased eye. People see what they want to see with dmen. Subban gives the puck away all the time, he sucks. Karlsson can't play defense, he gives up more than he creates, he sucks. Petry is always out there when top players score and he gave the puck away that one time, he sucks. I used to always hate doug weight and was able to find something wrong with everything he did out on the ice. If you watch a player with a biased viewpoint, it's very easy to find a fault in almost everything they do, and just default to thinking anything good was luck or because he was helped by someone else.

Why did you used to hate Doug Weight?! The best Oiler to not win a cup here by a long margin, excluding Pronger. In the all time Oilers line-up, I have him at third line center after Gretzky and Mess.

Bob Marley and the (Hartford) Wailers.

Xombie wrote on Wed, 13 July 2016 09:57

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 13 July 2016 07:23 Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 13 July 2016 03:45 Another analysis of Larsson. Still looking for the analysis from someone (other than the Oilers) that says this guy is a No.1 NHL defense-man, and not the second coming of Ladi Smid. In fact, as I recall Smid was heralded as a "future" a top pairing D-man as well when they traded away Chris F'ing Pronger. I'm getting sick of the people running/ruining this franchise. Shero looking like GM of the year. http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/ cult-of-hockey-an-in-depth-look-at-adam-larssons-game-by-gue st-analyst-cory-west Quote: I reviewed 13 random games from the 2015/2016 season and I think the results are somewhat interesting. I used games spread throughout the season and looked at some wins, losses and even a blow out of a game. The two most important takeaways from my review of Larsson and the devils are, firstly, Andy Greene is really, really good. As the incomparable Mike Johnson of Sportsnet said, “ I don’t often search out New Jersey Devil games” and I think most fans can say this but really this is a shame because Andy Greene is a gem. Secondly, the Devils play with a defensive zone structure that a handful of Oiler coaches and former coaches only can dream about. Training camp is going to be a shock for Mr. Larsson. However, if you’re reading a blog post on the Oilers you probably were not shocked by those synopsis of the Devils and you’re probably far more interested in Larsson than his former team but I think those points are worth reconsidering especially in the context of Larsson. So what is Larsson? Well, this is where things get interesting. Chiarelli has mentioned he is not sexy and after 13 games worth of shifts I am not sure that does him justice. I like all defensemen to be able to move the puck at some level. The days are gone of having a pylon out there that rings the puck off the glass and out every time he gets it. Larsson is not a puck mover. I don’t believe anyone can debate this. Much like blogger Mo “WheatNOil’ Sarda has pointed out in the mildly successful Sekera/Fayne pairing, the puck moving on the Greene/Larsson combo is almost entirely on Greene. I anticipate this is because Greene moves the puck very well, and Larsson isn’t great at this. In fact, I would be willing to bet that Adam Larsson’s now well documented, large percentage of defensive-zone starts is because the Devils simply have better options moving the puck in and around the offensive and neutral zones. Larsson has been said to have a good shot, and perhaps that is the case but he seldom (read never) gets it off in time and I think this really limits him. I hate seeing defensemen that don’t look up when shooting. If you can tell me how many eyelets are on your skates when after you take a shot then you aren’t going to be on my team for long and Larsson displayed this trait quite a bit late in the season. I actually can’t remember seeing a defenseman shoot the puck into so many bodies. (worse than the "Shin Assasin" Sekera?) Fellow New Jersey d-man Damon Severson is clearly superior at this and I would say John Moore and David Schlemko are also more offensively aware, and this is why Larsson doesn’t see many O-zone faceoffs. I don't know. That whole thing reads like he watched those 13 games with a very biased eye. People see what they want to see with dmen. Subban gives the puck away all the time, he sucks. Karlsson can't play defense, he gives up more than he creates, he sucks. Petry is always out there when top players score and he gave the puck away that one time, he sucks. I used to always hate doug weight and was able to find something wrong with everything he did out on the ice. If you watch a player with a biased viewpoint, it's very easy to find a fault in almost everything they do, and just default to thinking anything good was luck or because he was helped by someone else. Why did you used to hate Doug Weight?! The best Oiler to not win a cup here by a long margin, excluding Pronger. In the all time Oilers line-up, I have him at third line center after Gretzky and Mess.

I dunno, I forget why. But, to me, he was flabby (had training camp pics where he had a round torso with no definition to prove it), spent entire shifts not touching the puck once. Everyone passed to him just by default so that is why he racked up so many 2nd assists, but as a by product of players throwing the puck at him as a reflex. He was never willing to finish a play himself, just pass to someone and hope they can do all the work.

These are all things I was able to be 100% certain of whenever I watched Weight through my personal biased lens, and nothing could change my mind :)

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 19 July 2016 22:56

So I was bored and watched a few NJD games. I know it's not 13 like this guy watched, but from the 3, I have to say his scouting report is garbage. I don't see Larsson depending on Greene for anything, it's a totally give and take pairing. Larsson will take hits for Greene to make plays and the reverse. Larsson is more than happy to skate pucks out of the zone or pass it up to open forwards when the opportunity is there and he is able to make quick decisions. There is no Smid/Petry relationship there where Smid just defaulted to Petry at every chance, Larsson is processing the game and making the right plays. I watched him against Buffalo, Florida and Philly and he did well against all the top players. He plastered Eichel a couple times in the Buffalo game which I enjoyed, and even kept up with him in a foot race back into the NJD zone. He was a little slower than Eichel, sure, but he wasn't that much slower, not sure where this idea is coming from that he's a bad skater. He's a surgeon with his stick and knows how to use his body to neutralize players, good players. He could battle with Eichel, Jagr, Barkov, Voracek, anyone along the boards and he has a good shot to come out with the puck or at least knock it away from them. I have to say, NJD forwards are trash. They are a 1 line team, and not even that great of a 1st line. They have a very good PP though that is run by the forwards. Palmieri is a beast on the PP. It's 1 line, PP or nothing with their forward group. Lots of exits that Larsson and Greene provide are completely wasted. And the lack of reward Hynes gives Greene and Larsson is depressing to watch. Force an icing early in your shift and you're ready to go for that offensive zone FO? Too bad, get your butt back here and wait for the next defensive zone start. I bet he's pretty excited to get to be treated like a normal hockey player again, not just start in his own end all night and see guys like Schlemko get all the offensive opportunities.

I should note, maybe I watched it all with a biased view, but I honestly did try not to

And if I did, whatever, just cancels out the biased view that other guy watched with

Seriously though, he plays like I hope Klefbom can for us when he's 100%. He's obviously more seasoned than Klef and knows now how to play against good players, and he really plays with a business like approach in his zone. I see zero panic in his game no matter what is going on.

After watching this I am pretty excited to see a Larsson/Klefbom pairing.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

had to share from hf:

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

Liking this Woodguy dude. Learning a lot from his articles, especially the Larsson related ones. It's very hard to figure out what we have with Larsson based on his past performance because of his unusual deployment by Hynes. Woodguy seems to be getting closer with every article he writes.

http://becauseoilers.blogspot.ca/2016/08/a-deeper-look-at-la rsson-vs-severson.html

Quote:

CONCLUSION If I were to just look at corsi and corsi WOWY's I'd probably conclude that Severson is a better Dman than Larsson. When I looked a little deeper I found: -Larsson has the toughest zone starts in the NHL, while Severson had some of the easiest zone starts in the NHL. -Larsson has better expected goal results with more players than Severson -Larrson outperformed Severon in 7 of the 8 expected goal metrics that we examined with the centers despite having much tough zone starts. -Larsson played against elite forwards more than Severson Its pretty easy to conclude that Larsson is the better Dman when you include all of these factors. The graph below pretty much explains it in one picture. -The y-axis is quality of competition using xGF% of competitors as the measure. -The x-axis is zone starts ratio -The color of the bubble is expected GF% (blue good, red bad) -The size of the bubble is TOI%.

Another funny graph from that article:



Can probably guess who the 2 guys are at the far right with the most difficult D zone start% in the NHL. Green #2 and Larsson #1 in percentage of zone starts in D zone 5v5. We already knew they were way out there, but funny to see it charted vs the rest of D in the league.


And just a side note, Willis really needs to learn some more about math and analytics. Lately it really seems like he's slammed into a wall of what his mind is able to understand, and he has shifted all his energy to becoming more mainstream. He's turning out a lot of unfortunate articles, and his ego and arrogance seems to be increasing with each one he writes. I expected he would be a guy that kept trying to explore and learn more and more about analytics stuff to evolve his understanding, but he seems totally satisfied now that he knows just enough to make blanket statements he can write articles about with just enough data that he can throw up as a wall vs the average joe responses (by suggesting you're argument is on a higher plane that they just don't understand), and just ignore the more difficult to counter analytics-based arguments.

[Updated on: Sat, 27 August 2016 19:46]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

2015/2016 - This Kool-Aid tastes like McDavid flavoured Drain-O.
2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.
2017/2018 - I'm drinking this Kool-Aid, in hopes that it's Drain-O.
2018/2019 - Another round of Drain-O, good sir!

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

I make music:
Undermaker442

308 Media Group

I make music:
Undermaker442

308 Media Group

Illegitimi non carborundum.

[Updated on: Wed, 31 August 2016 14:07]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

[Updated on: Wed, 31 August 2016 16:53]

I make music:
Undermaker442

308 Media Group

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

2015/2016 - This Kool-Aid tastes like McDavid flavoured Drain-O.
2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.
2017/2018 - I'm drinking this Kool-Aid, in hopes that it's Drain-O.
2018/2019 - Another round of Drain-O, good sir!

[Updated on: Wed, 31 August 2016 15:34]

2015/2016 - This Kool-Aid tastes like McDavid flavoured Drain-O.
2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.
2017/2018 - I'm drinking this Kool-Aid, in hopes that it's Drain-O.
2018/2019 - Another round of Drain-O, good sir!

I make music:
Undermaker442

308 Media Group

[Updated on: Wed, 31 August 2016 14:23]

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks