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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674977 is a reply to message #674974 ]
Wed, 13 July 2016 08:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016
3 Cups
It's what I expected but I wish the Edmonton media guys would stop picking this guy apart. He hasn't even put on a practice jersey yet and they are already setting this guy up to fail. It's really pathetic actually.

I'm a huge Hall fan so seeing him go was hard for me. Do I think the Oilers should have gotten more for Hall, yes I do but I am bias. Unless a team makes an absolutely stupid trade, it is REALLY hard getting a good dman these days.

I think the Flames absolutely ROBBED the Bruins last year in the Hamilton trade. It was a completely stupid trade as the Bruins will NEVER get anything close to what Hamilton is for will be. The Oilers apparently offered a better package but the Bruins stupidly turned it down.

For the Suban trade. I like Suban and his skill set but I hate his contract. I love Weber. It took Shea Weber to get Suban. Shea Weber is one of the best dmen in the freaking world. According to the rumors, the Habs wanted Hall, Draisaitl the #4 and maybe a young dman for Suban. I am sorry but I would never do that trade because you would gut your team.

There are rumors out there that the Blues wanted the #4 for Shattenkirk and there is ZERO chance the Oilers could sign him. Is that what peopled the Oilers to do? No chance for me.

To get Seth Jones, a completely unproven, young Dman the Blue Jackets traded Johansen. Johansen is already a really, really good, big, strong, right shot #1 center. That's a lot to pay for a dman who everyone thinks will be really good.

So people need to step back from the ledge and think about all these trades that have happened and the cost to get these guys. Larsson is right now at the very least a real good #3 on pretty much every team in the league who's signed to a really, really good deal. People forget that in today's NHL, a players contract contributes to their value. If Larsson was making mid 5's to 6 mill he wouldn't be worth as much but he makes 4.2 mill. So that increases his value.

In Hall, you have a star player that in 6 years in the league has been on a lousy team. It's not Halls all fault where the Oilers ended up but at the same time like it or not, where the Oilers fell in the standings affected his value. Like it or not, teams will always value guys more who come from winning teams. Guys get paid more based on where they used to play. You don't have to look any further than Andrew Shaw. I like Shaw as a player but his contract number is higher because he played on the Blackhawks. For Hall, his value was hurt by his team. You can blame the management but you have to also blame him and his teammates for not being better than they are. There is no reason the Oilers with the talent they had should have been finishing near the bottom for as long as they were. I don't for a second think they were ever a playoff team but no way in hell they should have been near dead last every single year with the paper talent they had.

The Oilers got a very good dman for Hall. Like it or not, there is ZERO chance the Oilers would have gotten a #1 dman for Hall without adding a lot more. In looking at Dmen who checked all the boxes the Oilers needed, I look at a guy like Faulk. Right shot, big, good skating, PP guy, decent in his own end, capable of playing big mins, legit #2 dman. I don't think there is a chance in hell the Canes trade Faulk for Hall straight up. It would take Hall plus.

So fans and all these negative media guys who are ripping actively trying to destroy Larsson before he gets here can whine and complain about Larsson not being enough for all but they need to come back to reality. To get a guy that checks all the boxes, it would have taken Hall plus the 4th at least and I'm sorry, I'm not doing that trade.

[Updated on: Wed, 13 July 2016 08:43]

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674978 is a reply to message #674977 ]
Wed, 13 July 2016 09:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently online Kr55
Messages: 10779
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 13 July 2016 08:41

It's what I expected but I wish the Edmonton media guys would stop picking this guy apart. He hasn't even put on a practice jersey yet and they are already setting this guy up to fail. It's really pathetic actually.

I'm a huge Hall fan so seeing him go was hard for me. Do I think the Oilers should have gotten more for Hall, yes I do but I am bias. Unless a team makes an absolutely stupid trade, it is REALLY hard getting a good dman these days.

I think the Flames absolutely ROBBED the Bruins last year in the Hamilton trade. It was a completely stupid trade as the Bruins will NEVER get anything close to what Hamilton is for will be. The Oilers apparently offered a better package but the Bruins stupidly turned it down.

For the Suban trade. I like Suban and his skill set but I hate his contract. I love Weber. It took Shea Weber to get Suban. Shea Weber is one of the best dmen in the freaking world. According to the rumors, the Habs wanted Hall, Draisaitl the #4 and maybe a young dman for Suban. I am sorry but I would never do that trade because you would gut your team.

There are rumors out there that the Blues wanted the #4 for Shattenkirk and there is ZERO chance the Oilers could sign him. Is that what peopled the Oilers to do? No chance for me.

To get Seth Jones, a completely unproven, young Dman the Blue Jackets traded Johansen. Johansen is already a really, really good, big, strong, right shot #1 center. That's a lot to pay for a dman who everyone thinks will be really good.

So people need to step back from the ledge and think about all these trades that have happened and the cost to get these guys. Larsson is right now at the very least a real good #3 on pretty much every team in the league who's signed to a really, really good deal. People forget that in today's NHL, a players contract contributes to their value. If Larsson was making mid 5's to 6 mill he wouldn't be worth as much but he makes 4.2 mill. So that increases his value.

In Hall, you have a star player that in 6 years in the league has been on a lousy team. It's not Halls all fault where the Oilers ended up but at the same time like it or not, where the Oilers fell in the standings affected his value. Like it or not, teams will always value guys more who come from winning teams. Guys get paid more based on where they used to play. You don't have to look any further than Andrew Shaw. I like Shaw as a player but his contract number is higher because he played on the Blackhawks. For Hall, his value was hurt by his team. You can blame the management but you have to also blame him and his teammates for not being better than they are. There is no reason the Oilers with the talent they had should have been finishing near the bottom for as long as they were. I don't for a second think they were ever a playoff team but no way in hell they should have been near dead last every single year with the paper talent they had.

The Oilers got a very good dman for Hall. Like it or not, there is ZERO chance the Oilers would have gotten a #1 dman for Hall without adding a lot more. In looking at Dmen who checked all the boxes the Oilers needed, I look at a guy like Faulk. Right shot, big, good skating, PP guy, decent in his own end, capable of playing big mins, legit #2 dman. I don't think there is a chance in hell the Canes trade Faulk for Hall straight up. It would take Hall plus.

So fans and all these negative media guys who are ripping actively trying to destroy Larsson before he gets here can whine and complain about Larsson not being enough for all but they need to come back to reality. To get a guy that checks all the boxes, it would have taken Hall plus the 4th at least and I'm sorry, I'm not doing that trade.


I've been hearing the thing about Jones not getting a "Hall quality" player a lot. Did people miss Johansen having a better year than Hall in 14/15 and a 33 goal year before that? Hall's season would have went a lot like Johansen's last year too if he didn't magically mesh with Drai. Hall was pretty mediocre until that chemistry emerged and went back to being mediocre when Drai got burned out. Hall had 2 pretty disappointing years in a row excluding a couple magic months with Drai before we traded him, and he's a winger. Johansen is a big C with lots of upside and filled a role in Nashville that they have been trying to fill for years, and he's even good on faceoffs already at 23. They got a Hall quality piece and much more if Johansen starts to take his fitness seriously.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674980 is a reply to message #674978 ]
Wed, 13 July 2016 09:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 13 July 2016 09:08

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 13 July 2016 08:41

It's what I expected but I wish the Edmonton media guys would stop picking this guy apart. He hasn't even put on a practice jersey yet and they are already setting this guy up to fail. It's really pathetic actually.

I'm a huge Hall fan so seeing him go was hard for me. Do I think the Oilers should have gotten more for Hall, yes I do but I am bias. Unless a team makes an absolutely stupid trade, it is REALLY hard getting a good dman these days.

I think the Flames absolutely ROBBED the Bruins last year in the Hamilton trade. It was a completely stupid trade as the Bruins will NEVER get anything close to what Hamilton is for will be. The Oilers apparently offered a better package but the Bruins stupidly turned it down.

For the Suban trade. I like Suban and his skill set but I hate his contract. I love Weber. It took Shea Weber to get Suban. Shea Weber is one of the best dmen in the freaking world. According to the rumors, the Habs wanted Hall, Draisaitl the #4 and maybe a young dman for Suban. I am sorry but I would never do that trade because you would gut your team.

There are rumors out there that the Blues wanted the #4 for Shattenkirk and there is ZERO chance the Oilers could sign him. Is that what peopled the Oilers to do? No chance for me.

To get Seth Jones, a completely unproven, young Dman the Blue Jackets traded Johansen. Johansen is already a really, really good, big, strong, right shot #1 center. That's a lot to pay for a dman who everyone thinks will be really good.

So people need to step back from the ledge and think about all these trades that have happened and the cost to get these guys. Larsson is right now at the very least a real good #3 on pretty much every team in the league who's signed to a really, really good deal. People forget that in today's NHL, a players contract contributes to their value. If Larsson was making mid 5's to 6 mill he wouldn't be worth as much but he makes 4.2 mill. So that increases his value.

In Hall, you have a star player that in 6 years in the league has been on a lousy team. It's not Halls all fault where the Oilers ended up but at the same time like it or not, where the Oilers fell in the standings affected his value. Like it or not, teams will always value guys more who come from winning teams. Guys get paid more based on where they used to play. You don't have to look any further than Andrew Shaw. I like Shaw as a player but his contract number is higher because he played on the Blackhawks. For Hall, his value was hurt by his team. You can blame the management but you have to also blame him and his teammates for not being better than they are. There is no reason the Oilers with the talent they had should have been finishing near the bottom for as long as they were. I don't for a second think they were ever a playoff team but no way in hell they should have been near dead last every single year with the paper talent they had.

The Oilers got a very good dman for Hall. Like it or not, there is ZERO chance the Oilers would have gotten a #1 dman for Hall without adding a lot more. In looking at Dmen who checked all the boxes the Oilers needed, I look at a guy like Faulk. Right shot, big, good skating, PP guy, decent in his own end, capable of playing big mins, legit #2 dman. I don't think there is a chance in hell the Canes trade Faulk for Hall straight up. It would take Hall plus.

So fans and all these negative media guys who are ripping actively trying to destroy Larsson before he gets here can whine and complain about Larsson not being enough for all but they need to come back to reality. To get a guy that checks all the boxes, it would have taken Hall plus the 4th at least and I'm sorry, I'm not doing that trade.


I've been hearing the thing about Jones not getting a "Hall quality" player a lot. Did people miss Johansen having a better year than Hall in 14/15 and a 33 goal year before that? Hall's season would have went a lot like Johansen's last year too if he didn't magically mesh with Drai. Hall was pretty mediocre until that chemistry emerged and went back to being mediocre when Drai got burned out. Hall had 2 pretty disappointing years in a row excluding a couple magic months with Drai before we traded him, and he's a winger. Johansen is a big C with lots of upside and filled a role in Nashville that they have been trying to fill for years, and he's even good on faceoffs already at 23. They got a Hall quality piece and much more if Johansen starts to take his fitness seriously.

When the Seth Jones trade happened and there were rumors that the Oilers offer Nuge for Jones, I can totally see why the Preds said no to the Oilers. I like Nuge but Johansen is a better player. Johansen is bigger, stronger, a right shot, scores more points, better on faceoffs. Johansen is a legit #1 center right now who will outscore Nuge for his whole career. Nuge is a decent #2 center.

If you look at the depth chart of most of the teams in the NHL, Johansen slides into the #1 center spot. So it took a legit #1 center to get Jones who is probably a top pairing guy but could just as easily be a PP running second pairing Dman based on his defensive game. It wouldn't shock me to see Jones turn into a Barrie. Barrie is a hell of an offensive dman but if you are playing him in your top pairing, you will probably be hurting. So I can totally see why the Preds did that trade and I almost think the Jackets gave up too much. If the Jackets offered the Oilers Johansen for Hall straight up, I would have done that in a heart beat.



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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674975 is a reply to message #674973 ]
Wed, 13 July 2016 08:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently online Kr55
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Registered: May 2002
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Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 13 July 2016 03:45

Another analysis of Larsson. Still looking for the analysis from someone (other than the Oilers) that says this guy is a No.1 NHL defense-man, and not the second coming of Ladi Smid. In fact, as I recall Smid was heralded as a "future" a top pairing D-man as well when they traded away Chris F'ing Pronger. faint
I'm getting sick of the people running/ruining this franchise.

Shero looking like GM of the year.

http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/ cult-of-hockey-an-in-depth-look-at-adam-larssons-game-by-gue st-analyst-cory-west
Quote:

I reviewed 13 random games from the 2015/2016 season and I think the results are somewhat interesting. I used games spread throughout the season and looked at some wins, losses and even a blow out of a game. The two most important takeaways from my review of Larsson and the devils are, firstly, Andy Greene is really, really good. As the incomparable Mike Johnson of Sportsnet said, “ I don’t often search out New Jersey Devil games” and I think most fans can say this but really this is a shame because Andy Greene is a gem. Secondly, the Devils play with a defensive zone structure that a handful of Oiler coaches and former coaches only can dream about. Training camp is going to be a shock for Mr. Larsson.

However, if you’re reading a blog post on the Oilers you probably were not shocked by those synopsis of the Devils and you’re probably far more interested in Larsson than his former team but I think those points are worth reconsidering especially in the context of Larsson. So what is Larsson? Well, this is where things get interesting. Chiarelli has mentioned he is not sexy and after 13 games worth of shifts I am not sure that does him justice. I like all defensemen to be able to move the puck at some level. The days are gone of having a pylon out there that rings the puck off the glass and out every time he gets it. Larsson is not a puck mover. I don’t believe anyone can debate this. Much like blogger Mo “WheatNOil’ Sarda has pointed out in the mildly successful Sekera/Fayne pairing, the puck moving on the Greene/Larsson combo is almost entirely on Greene. I anticipate this is because Greene moves the puck very well, and Larsson isn’t great at this.

In fact, I would be willing to bet that Adam Larsson’s now well documented, large percentage of defensive-zone starts is because the Devils simply have better options moving the puck in and around the offensive and neutral zones. Larsson has been said to have a good shot, and perhaps that is the case but he seldom (read never) gets it off in time and I think this really limits him.

I hate seeing defensemen that don’t look up when shooting. If you can tell me how many eyelets are on your skates when after you take a shot then you aren’t going to be on my team for long and Larsson displayed this trait quite a bit late in the season. I actually can’t remember seeing a defenseman shoot the puck into so many bodies. (worse than the "Shin Assasin" Sekera?) Fellow New Jersey d-man Damon Severson is clearly superior at this and I would say John Moore and David Schlemko are also more offensively aware, and this is why Larsson doesn’t see many O-zone faceoffs.



I don't know. That whole thing reads like he watched those 13 games with a very biased eye. People see what they want to see with dmen. Subban gives the puck away all the time, he sucks. Karlsson can't play defense, he gives up more than he creates, he sucks. Petry is always out there when top players score and he gave the puck away that one time, he sucks. I used to always hate doug weight and was able to find something wrong with everything he did out on the ice. If you watch a player with a biased viewpoint, it's very easy to find a fault in almost everything they do, and just default to thinking anything good was luck or because he was helped by someone else.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674976 is a reply to message #674975 ]
Wed, 13 July 2016 08:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 13 July 2016 08:23

Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 13 July 2016 03:45

Another analysis of Larsson. Still looking for the analysis from someone (other than the Oilers) that says this guy is a No.1 NHL defense-man, and not the second coming of Ladi Smid. In fact, as I recall Smid was heralded as a "future" a top pairing D-man as well when they traded away Chris F'ing Pronger. faint
I'm getting sick of the people running/ruining this franchise.

Shero looking like GM of the year.

http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/ cult-of-hockey-an-in-depth-look-at-adam-larssons-game-by-gue st-analyst-cory-west
Quote:

I reviewed 13 random games from the 2015/2016 season and I think the results are somewhat interesting. I used games spread throughout the season and looked at some wins, losses and even a blow out of a game. The two most important takeaways from my review of Larsson and the devils are, firstly, Andy Greene is really, really good. As the incomparable Mike Johnson of Sportsnet said, “ I don’t often search out New Jersey Devil games” and I think most fans can say this but really this is a shame because Andy Greene is a gem. Secondly, the Devils play with a defensive zone structure that a handful of Oiler coaches and former coaches only can dream about. Training camp is going to be a shock for Mr. Larsson.

However, if you’re reading a blog post on the Oilers you probably were not shocked by those synopsis of the Devils and you’re probably far more interested in Larsson than his former team but I think those points are worth reconsidering especially in the context of Larsson. So what is Larsson? Well, this is where things get interesting. Chiarelli has mentioned he is not sexy and after 13 games worth of shifts I am not sure that does him justice. I like all defensemen to be able to move the puck at some level. The days are gone of having a pylon out there that rings the puck off the glass and out every time he gets it. Larsson is not a puck mover. I don’t believe anyone can debate this. Much like blogger Mo “WheatNOil’ Sarda has pointed out in the mildly successful Sekera/Fayne pairing, the puck moving on the Greene/Larsson combo is almost entirely on Greene. I anticipate this is because Greene moves the puck very well, and Larsson isn’t great at this.

In fact, I would be willing to bet that Adam Larsson’s now well documented, large percentage of defensive-zone starts is because the Devils simply have better options moving the puck in and around the offensive and neutral zones. Larsson has been said to have a good shot, and perhaps that is the case but he seldom (read never) gets it off in time and I think this really limits him.

I hate seeing defensemen that don’t look up when shooting. If you can tell me how many eyelets are on your skates when after you take a shot then you aren’t going to be on my team for long and Larsson displayed this trait quite a bit late in the season. I actually can’t remember seeing a defenseman shoot the puck into so many bodies. (worse than the "Shin Assasin" Sekera?) Fellow New Jersey d-man Damon Severson is clearly superior at this and I would say John Moore and David Schlemko are also more offensively aware, and this is why Larsson doesn’t see many O-zone faceoffs.



I don't know. That whole thing reads like he watched those 13 games with a very biased eye. People see what they want to see with dmen. Subban gives the puck away all the time, he sucks. Karlsson can't play defense, he gives up more than he creates, he sucks. Petry is always out there when top players score and he gave the puck away that one time, he sucks. I used to always hate doug weight and was able to find something wrong with everything he did out on the ice. If you watch a player with a biased viewpoint, it's very easy to find a fault in almost everything they do, and just default to thinking anything good was luck or because he was helped by someone else.

Some of us have the same problem when discussing Oilers management. Miss the playoffs for ten years, they suck. Waste the entry level contracts of 4 first overall picks, they suck. Allow for the continued employment of exactly one person, they suck.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674991 is a reply to message #674976 ]
Wed, 13 July 2016 10:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 13 July 2016 08:30


Some of us have the same problem when discussing Oilers management. Miss the playoffs for ten years, they suck. Waste the entry level contracts of 4 first overall picks, they suck. Allow for the continued employment of exactly one person, they suck.


You're right! You are incredibly biased! Why can't you just look at Lowe's solid history of collecting Stanley Cup rings as a pretty good defenceman on some great teams in the 1980s and 90s? Why must you always focus on the negative like that!

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674996 is a reply to message #674991 ]
Wed, 13 July 2016 12:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Adam wrote on Wed, 13 July 2016 10:41

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 13 July 2016 08:30


Some of us have the same problem when discussing Oilers management. Miss the playoffs for ten years, they suck. Waste the entry level contracts of 4 first overall picks, they suck. Allow for the continued employment of exactly one person, they suck.


You're right! You are incredibly biased! Why can't you just look at Lowe's solid history of collecting Stanley Cup rings as a pretty good defenceman on some great teams in the 1980s and 90s? Why must you always focus on the negative like that!

I'm not sure why you think I am even talking about Mr. Kevin Lowe. That's showing your personal bias "Mr I Demand Accountability for on Ice Performance from Professional Hockey Teams".

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #675001 is a reply to message #674996 ]
Wed, 13 July 2016 13:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rocksteady is currently offline Rocksteady
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CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 13 July 2016 12:48

Adam wrote on Wed, 13 July 2016 10:41

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 13 July 2016 08:30


Some of us have the same problem when discussing Oilers management. Miss the playoffs for ten years, they suck. Waste the entry level contracts of 4 first overall picks, they suck. Allow for the continued employment of exactly one person, they suck.


You're right! You are incredibly biased! Why can't you just look at Lowe's solid history of collecting Stanley Cup rings as a pretty good defenceman on some great teams in the 1980s and 90s? Why must you always focus on the negative like that!

I'm not sure why you think I am even talking about Mr. Kevin Lowe. That's showing your personal bias "Mr I Demand Accountability for on Ice Performance from Professional Hockey Teams".


Look you both are showing an incredible lack of vision on how the plan is supposed to go, you both aren't being visual enough.

We are visually better, though the standings don't reflect that, you don't have to look that we HAD a Norris candidate on our roster, only to trade up on him and get a lock for a Norris finalist. All we had to do is trade a locker room cancer who is solely responsible for not righting the ship.

Be visual boys. V-I-S-U-A-L, visual.

The very definition of insanity is doing the exact same thing expecting different results.

Generally Disappointed.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674983 is a reply to message #674975 ]
Wed, 13 July 2016 09:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Xombie is currently offline Xombie
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 13 July 2016 07:23

Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 13 July 2016 03:45

Another analysis of Larsson. Still looking for the analysis from someone (other than the Oilers) that says this guy is a No.1 NHL defense-man, and not the second coming of Ladi Smid. In fact, as I recall Smid was heralded as a "future" a top pairing D-man as well when they traded away Chris F'ing Pronger. faint
I'm getting sick of the people running/ruining this franchise.

Shero looking like GM of the year.

http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/ cult-of-hockey-an-in-depth-look-at-adam-larssons-game-by-gue st-analyst-cory-west
Quote:

I reviewed 13 random games from the 2015/2016 season and I think the results are somewhat interesting. I used games spread throughout the season and looked at some wins, losses and even a blow out of a game. The two most important takeaways from my review of Larsson and the devils are, firstly, Andy Greene is really, really good. As the incomparable Mike Johnson of Sportsnet said, “ I don’t often search out New Jersey Devil games” and I think most fans can say this but really this is a shame because Andy Greene is a gem. Secondly, the Devils play with a defensive zone structure that a handful of Oiler coaches and former coaches only can dream about. Training camp is going to be a shock for Mr. Larsson.

However, if you’re reading a blog post on the Oilers you probably were not shocked by those synopsis of the Devils and you’re probably far more interested in Larsson than his former team but I think those points are worth reconsidering especially in the context of Larsson. So what is Larsson? Well, this is where things get interesting. Chiarelli has mentioned he is not sexy and after 13 games worth of shifts I am not sure that does him justice. I like all defensemen to be able to move the puck at some level. The days are gone of having a pylon out there that rings the puck off the glass and out every time he gets it. Larsson is not a puck mover. I don’t believe anyone can debate this. Much like blogger Mo “WheatNOil’ Sarda has pointed out in the mildly successful Sekera/Fayne pairing, the puck moving on the Greene/Larsson combo is almost entirely on Greene. I anticipate this is because Greene moves the puck very well, and Larsson isn’t great at this.

In fact, I would be willing to bet that Adam Larsson’s now well documented, large percentage of defensive-zone starts is because the Devils simply have better options moving the puck in and around the offensive and neutral zones. Larsson has been said to have a good shot, and perhaps that is the case but he seldom (read never) gets it off in time and I think this really limits him.

I hate seeing defensemen that don’t look up when shooting. If you can tell me how many eyelets are on your skates when after you take a shot then you aren’t going to be on my team for long and Larsson displayed this trait quite a bit late in the season. I actually can’t remember seeing a defenseman shoot the puck into so many bodies. (worse than the "Shin Assasin" Sekera?) Fellow New Jersey d-man Damon Severson is clearly superior at this and I would say John Moore and David Schlemko are also more offensively aware, and this is why Larsson doesn’t see many O-zone faceoffs.



I don't know. That whole thing reads like he watched those 13 games with a very biased eye. People see what they want to see with dmen. Subban gives the puck away all the time, he sucks. Karlsson can't play defense, he gives up more than he creates, he sucks. Petry is always out there when top players score and he gave the puck away that one time, he sucks. I used to always hate doug weight and was able to find something wrong with everything he did out on the ice. If you watch a player with a biased viewpoint, it's very easy to find a fault in almost everything they do, and just default to thinking anything good was luck or because he was helped by someone else.



Why did you used to hate Doug Weight?! The best Oiler to not win a cup here by a long margin, excluding Pronger. In the all time Oilers line-up, I have him at third line center after Gretzky and Mess.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674986 is a reply to message #674983 ]
Wed, 13 July 2016 10:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Xombie wrote on Wed, 13 July 2016 09:57

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 13 July 2016 07:23

Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 13 July 2016 03:45

Another analysis of Larsson. Still looking for the analysis from someone (other than the Oilers) that says this guy is a No.1 NHL defense-man, and not the second coming of Ladi Smid. In fact, as I recall Smid was heralded as a "future" a top pairing D-man as well when they traded away Chris F'ing Pronger. faint
I'm getting sick of the people running/ruining this franchise.

Shero looking like GM of the year.

http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/ cult-of-hockey-an-in-depth-look-at-adam-larssons-game-by-gue st-analyst-cory-west
Quote:

I reviewed 13 random games from the 2015/2016 season and I think the results are somewhat interesting. I used games spread throughout the season and looked at some wins, losses and even a blow out of a game. The two most important takeaways from my review of Larsson and the devils are, firstly, Andy Greene is really, really good. As the incomparable Mike Johnson of Sportsnet said, “ I don’t often search out New Jersey Devil games” and I think most fans can say this but really this is a shame because Andy Greene is a gem. Secondly, the Devils play with a defensive zone structure that a handful of Oiler coaches and former coaches only can dream about. Training camp is going to be a shock for Mr. Larsson.

However, if you’re reading a blog post on the Oilers you probably were not shocked by those synopsis of the Devils and you’re probably far more interested in Larsson than his former team but I think those points are worth reconsidering especially in the context of Larsson. So what is Larsson? Well, this is where things get interesting. Chiarelli has mentioned he is not sexy and after 13 games worth of shifts I am not sure that does him justice. I like all defensemen to be able to move the puck at some level. The days are gone of having a pylon out there that rings the puck off the glass and out every time he gets it. Larsson is not a puck mover. I don’t believe anyone can debate this. Much like blogger Mo “WheatNOil’ Sarda has pointed out in the mildly successful Sekera/Fayne pairing, the puck moving on the Greene/Larsson combo is almost entirely on Greene. I anticipate this is because Greene moves the puck very well, and Larsson isn’t great at this.

In fact, I would be willing to bet that Adam Larsson’s now well documented, large percentage of defensive-zone starts is because the Devils simply have better options moving the puck in and around the offensive and neutral zones. Larsson has been said to have a good shot, and perhaps that is the case but he seldom (read never) gets it off in time and I think this really limits him.

I hate seeing defensemen that don’t look up when shooting. If you can tell me how many eyelets are on your skates when after you take a shot then you aren’t going to be on my team for long and Larsson displayed this trait quite a bit late in the season. I actually can’t remember seeing a defenseman shoot the puck into so many bodies. (worse than the "Shin Assasin" Sekera?) Fellow New Jersey d-man Damon Severson is clearly superior at this and I would say John Moore and David Schlemko are also more offensively aware, and this is why Larsson doesn’t see many O-zone faceoffs.



I don't know. That whole thing reads like he watched those 13 games with a very biased eye. People see what they want to see with dmen. Subban gives the puck away all the time, he sucks. Karlsson can't play defense, he gives up more than he creates, he sucks. Petry is always out there when top players score and he gave the puck away that one time, he sucks. I used to always hate doug weight and was able to find something wrong with everything he did out on the ice. If you watch a player with a biased viewpoint, it's very easy to find a fault in almost everything they do, and just default to thinking anything good was luck or because he was helped by someone else.



Why did you used to hate Doug Weight?! The best Oiler to not win a cup here by a long margin, excluding Pronger. In the all time Oilers line-up, I have him at third line center after Gretzky and Mess.


I dunno, I forget why. But, to me, he was flabby (had training camp pics where he had a round torso with no definition to prove it), spent entire shifts not touching the puck once. Everyone passed to him just by default so that is why he racked up so many 2nd assists, but as a by product of players throwing the puck at him as a reflex. He was never willing to finish a play himself, just pass to someone and hope they can do all the work.

These are all things I was able to be 100% certain of whenever I watched Weight through my personal biased lens, and nothing could change my mind :)

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674984 is a reply to message #674975 ]
Wed, 13 July 2016 09:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose is currently offline Goose
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 13 July 2016 07:23


I don't know. That whole thing reads like he watched those 13 games with a very biased eye. People see what they want to see with dmen. Subban gives the puck away all the time, he sucks. Karlsson can't play defense, he gives up more than he creates, he sucks. Petry is always out there when top players score and he gave the puck away that one time, he sucks. I used to always hate doug weight and was able to find something wrong with everything he did out on the ice. If you watch a player with a biased viewpoint, it's very easy to find a fault in almost everything they do, and just default to thinking anything good was luck or because he was helped by someone else.


His bias is evident, even when he's speaking positively about Larsson, he immediately pivots to why that won't be the case in Edmonton. He also speaks glowingly about how the Devils are such a well structured team and that helps Larsson. For all that structure, they were also one of the worst teams in the NHL, so maybe it didn't help Larsson out all that much.

And finally, he calls Jeff Petry a sexier defenceman than Larsson. I'm assuming he's talking about offence here, and not physical appearance.

Petry's best season - 2 goals/23 assists/25 points
Larsson's best season - 3 goals/21 assists/24 points

Not a ton of gap there, but everyone loves to talk about Larsson's offensive deficiencies as if he's the 2nd coming of JF Jacques.

Oilers Goal Differential
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18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674987 is a reply to message #674984 ]
Wed, 13 July 2016 10:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Goose wrote on Wed, 13 July 2016 09:57

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 13 July 2016 07:23


I don't know. That whole thing reads like he watched those 13 games with a very biased eye. People see what they want to see with dmen. Subban gives the puck away all the time, he sucks. Karlsson can't play defense, he gives up more than he creates, he sucks. Petry is always out there when top players score and he gave the puck away that one time, he sucks. I used to always hate doug weight and was able to find something wrong with everything he did out on the ice. If you watch a player with a biased viewpoint, it's very easy to find a fault in almost everything they do, and just default to thinking anything good was luck or because he was helped by someone else.


His bias is evident, even when he's speaking positively about Larsson, he immediately pivots to why that won't be the case in Edmonton. He also speaks glowingly about how the Devils are such a well structured team and that helps Larsson. For all that structure, they were also one of the worst teams in the NHL, so maybe it didn't help Larsson out all that much.

And finally, he calls Jeff Petry a sexier defenceman than Larsson. I'm assuming he's talking about offence here, and not physical appearance.

Petry's best season - 2 goals/23 assists/25 points
Larsson's best season - 3 goals/21 assists/24 points

Not a ton of gap there, but everyone loves to talk about Larsson's offensive deficiencies as if he's the 2nd coming of JF Jacques.


Petry is a decent second pairing dman but that's all he is. At 5.5 mill, I think Petry is way over paid by at least a million. I think Larsson is a better dman than Petry and if he's scoring you mid 30's in points, which I think will be easy to do if he's on the ice with McDavid, while playing a good shut down role, I don't see an issue with him

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #675052 is a reply to message #674987 ]
Thu, 14 July 2016 15:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
K.McC#24 is currently offline K.McC#24
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 13 July 2016 10:02

Goose wrote on Wed, 13 July 2016 09:57

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 13 July 2016 07:23


I don't know. That whole thing reads like he watched those 13 games with a very biased eye. People see what they want to see with dmen. Subban gives the puck away all the time, he sucks. Karlsson can't play defense, he gives up more than he creates, he sucks. Petry is always out there when top players score and he gave the puck away that one time, he sucks. I used to always hate doug weight and was able to find something wrong with everything he did out on the ice. If you watch a player with a biased viewpoint, it's very easy to find a fault in almost everything they do, and just default to thinking anything good was luck or because he was helped by someone else.


His bias is evident, even when he's speaking positively about Larsson, he immediately pivots to why that won't be the case in Edmonton. He also speaks glowingly about how the Devils are such a well structured team and that helps Larsson. For all that structure, they were also one of the worst teams in the NHL, so maybe it didn't help Larsson out all that much.

And finally, he calls Jeff Petry a sexier defenceman than Larsson. I'm assuming he's talking about offence here, and not physical appearance.

Petry's best season - 2 goals/23 assists/25 points
Larsson's best season - 3 goals/21 assists/24 points

Not a ton of gap there, but everyone loves to talk about Larsson's offensive deficiencies as if he's the 2nd coming of JF Jacques.


Petry is a decent second pairing dman but that's all he is. At 5.5 mill, I think Petry is way over paid by at least a million. I think Larsson is a better dman than Petry and if he's scoring you mid 30's in points, which I think will be easy to do if he's on the ice with McDavid, while playing a good shut down role, I don't see an issue with him


Yes, any talk of Petry being better than Larsson is implying that a deal straight up Hall for Petry would be a better deal than was made. Ruminate on that for a bit......I don't even want to think of that right now.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #675056 is a reply to message #675052 ]
Thu, 14 July 2016 15:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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K.McC#24 wrote on Thu, 14 July 2016 15:14

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 13 July 2016 10:02

Goose wrote on Wed, 13 July 2016 09:57

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 13 July 2016 07:23


I don't know. That whole thing reads like he watched those 13 games with a very biased eye. People see what they want to see with dmen. Subban gives the puck away all the time, he sucks. Karlsson can't play defense, he gives up more than he creates, he sucks. Petry is always out there when top players score and he gave the puck away that one time, he sucks. I used to always hate doug weight and was able to find something wrong with everything he did out on the ice. If you watch a player with a biased viewpoint, it's very easy to find a fault in almost everything they do, and just default to thinking anything good was luck or because he was helped by someone else.


His bias is evident, even when he's speaking positively about Larsson, he immediately pivots to why that won't be the case in Edmonton. He also speaks glowingly about how the Devils are such a well structured team and that helps Larsson. For all that structure, they were also one of the worst teams in the NHL, so maybe it didn't help Larsson out all that much.

And finally, he calls Jeff Petry a sexier defenceman than Larsson. I'm assuming he's talking about offence here, and not physical appearance.

Petry's best season - 2 goals/23 assists/25 points
Larsson's best season - 3 goals/21 assists/24 points

Not a ton of gap there, but everyone loves to talk about Larsson's offensive deficiencies as if he's the 2nd coming of JF Jacques.


Petry is a decent second pairing dman but that's all he is. At 5.5 mill, I think Petry is way over paid by at least a million. I think Larsson is a better dman than Petry and if he's scoring you mid 30's in points, which I think will be easy to do if he's on the ice with McDavid, while playing a good shut down role, I don't see an issue with him


Yes, any talk of Petry being better than Larsson is implying that a deal straight up Hall for Petry would be a better deal than was made. Ruminate on that for a bit......I don't even want to think of that right now.


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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #675138 is a reply to message #674973 ]
Tue, 19 July 2016 22:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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So I was bored and watched a few NJD games. I know it's not 13 like this guy watched, but from the 3, I have to say his scouting report is garbage. I don't see Larsson depending on Greene for anything, it's a totally give and take pairing. Larsson will take hits for Greene to make plays and the reverse. Larsson is more than happy to skate pucks out of the zone or pass it up to open forwards when the opportunity is there and he is able to make quick decisions. There is no Smid/Petry relationship there where Smid just defaulted to Petry at every chance, Larsson is processing the game and making the right plays.

I watched him against Buffalo, Florida and Philly and he did well against all the top players. He plastered Eichel a couple times in the Buffalo game which I enjoyed, and even kept up with him in a foot race back into the NJD zone. He was a little slower than Eichel, sure, but he wasn't that much slower, not sure where this idea is coming from that he's a bad skater.

He's a surgeon with his stick and knows how to use his body to neutralize players, good players. He could battle with Eichel, Jagr, Barkov, Voracek, anyone along the boards and he has a good shot to come out with the puck or at least knock it away from them.

I have to say, NJD forwards are trash. They are a 1 line team, and not even that great of a 1st line. They have a very good PP though that is run by the forwards. Palmieri is a beast on the PP. It's 1 line, PP or nothing with their forward group. Lots of exits that Larsson and Greene provide are completely wasted.

And the lack of reward Hynes gives Greene and Larsson is depressing to watch. Force an icing early in your shift and you're ready to go for that offensive zone FO? Too bad, get your butt back here and wait for the next defensive zone start. I bet he's pretty excited to get to be treated like a normal hockey player again, not just start in his own end all night and see guys like Schlemko get all the offensive opportunities.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #675139 is a reply to message #675138 ]
Tue, 19 July 2016 23:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 19 July 2016 22:56

So I was bored and watched a few NJD games. I know it's not 13 like this guy watched, but from the 3, I have to say his scouting report is garbage. I don't see Larsson depending on Greene for anything, it's a totally give and take pairing. Larsson will take hits for Greene to make plays and the reverse. Larsson is more than happy to skate pucks out of the zone or pass it up to open forwards when the opportunity is there and he is able to make quick decisions. There is no Smid/Petry relationship there where Smid just defaulted to Petry at every chance, Larsson is processing the game and making the right plays.

I watched him against Buffalo, Florida and Philly and he did well against all the top players. He plastered Eichel a couple times in the Buffalo game which I enjoyed, and even kept up with him in a foot race back into the NJD zone. He was a little slower than Eichel, sure, but he wasn't that much slower, not sure where this idea is coming from that he's a bad skater.

He's a surgeon with his stick and knows how to use his body to neutralize players, good players. He could battle with Eichel, Jagr, Barkov, Voracek, anyone along the boards and he has a good shot to come out with the puck or at least knock it away from them.

I have to say, NJD forwards are trash. They are a 1 line team, and not even that great of a 1st line. They have a very good PP though that is run by the forwards. Palmieri is a beast on the PP. It's 1 line, PP or nothing with their forward group. Lots of exits that Larsson and Greene provide are completely wasted.

And the lack of reward Hynes gives Greene and Larsson is depressing to watch. Force an icing early in your shift and you're ready to go for that offensive zone FO? Too bad, get your butt back here and wait for the next defensive zone start. I bet he's pretty excited to get to be treated like a normal hockey player again, not just start in his own end all night and see guys like Schlemko get all the offensive opportunities.


I should note, maybe I watched it all with a biased view, but I honestly did try not to icon_biggrin

And if I did, whatever, just cancels out the biased view that other guy watched with icon_wink

Seriously though, he plays like I hope Klefbom can for us when he's 100%. He's obviously more seasoned than Klef and knows now how to play against good players, and he really plays with a business like approach in his zone. I see zero panic in his game no matter what is going on.

After watching this I am pretty excited to see a Larsson/Klefbom pairing.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #675141 is a reply to message #675139 ]
Wed, 20 July 2016 08:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 19 July 2016 23:05

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 19 July 2016 22:56

So I was bored and watched a few NJD games. I know it's not 13 like this guy watched, but from the 3, I have to say his scouting report is garbage. I don't see Larsson depending on Greene for anything, it's a totally give and take pairing. Larsson will take hits for Greene to make plays and the reverse. Larsson is more than happy to skate pucks out of the zone or pass it up to open forwards when the opportunity is there and he is able to make quick decisions. There is no Smid/Petry relationship there where Smid just defaulted to Petry at every chance, Larsson is processing the game and making the right plays.

I watched him against Buffalo, Florida and Philly and he did well against all the top players. He plastered Eichel a couple times in the Buffalo game which I enjoyed, and even kept up with him in a foot race back into the NJD zone. He was a little slower than Eichel, sure, but he wasn't that much slower, not sure where this idea is coming from that he's a bad skater.

He's a surgeon with his stick and knows how to use his body to neutralize players, good players. He could battle with Eichel, Jagr, Barkov, Voracek, anyone along the boards and he has a good shot to come out with the puck or at least knock it away from them.

I have to say, NJD forwards are trash. They are a 1 line team, and not even that great of a 1st line. They have a very good PP though that is run by the forwards. Palmieri is a beast on the PP. It's 1 line, PP or nothing with their forward group. Lots of exits that Larsson and Greene provide are completely wasted.

And the lack of reward Hynes gives Greene and Larsson is depressing to watch. Force an icing early in your shift and you're ready to go for that offensive zone FO? Too bad, get your butt back here and wait for the next defensive zone start. I bet he's pretty excited to get to be treated like a normal hockey player again, not just start in his own end all night and see guys like Schlemko get all the offensive opportunities.


I should note, maybe I watched it all with a biased view, but I honestly did try not to icon_biggrin

And if I did, whatever, just cancels out the biased view that other guy watched with icon_wink

Seriously though, he plays like I hope Klefbom can for us when he's 100%. He's obviously more seasoned than Klef and knows now how to play against good players, and he really plays with a business like approach in his zone. I see zero panic in his game no matter what is going on.

After watching this I am pretty excited to see a Larsson/Klefbom pairing.

Really good insight on Larsson. Like I said a few times, if you take away the comments from Edmonton based media, everything about Larsson is positive. Even the eastern based media guys that actually get to see Larsson live more than once a year says he's definitely got more offense in him. The knock on Larsson from all the negative people is points. But like I said and you also described, when you play on a team who's system isn't offensive, you play on a team that severely lacks any even decent offensive forwards, you get no PP time and your coach basically only deploys you in defensive roles, how can you score any points.

To further my point. Everyone also raves about how great Andy Greene is. Andy Greene had 13 pts in 82 games last year. So if points is a big determining factor for how good a dman is in the eyes of some, then Andy Greene must be a pile of hot garbage then because he only had 13 pts last season, 22 the year prior and he played all 82 games.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #675176 is a reply to message #673755 ]
Wed, 20 July 2016 16:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently online Kr55
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had to share from hf:

http://i392.photobucket.com/albums/pp7/Beezle_Bot/hall_zps9okvh5o7.gif

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #676361 is a reply to message #673755 ]
Sat, 27 August 2016 16:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently online Kr55
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Liking this Woodguy dude. Learning a lot from his articles, especially the Larsson related ones. It's very hard to figure out what we have with Larsson based on his past performance because of his unusual deployment by Hynes. Woodguy seems to be getting closer with every article he writes.

http://becauseoilers.blogspot.ca/2016/08/a-deeper-look-at-la rsson-vs-severson.html

Quote:

CONCLUSION

If I were to just look at corsi and corsi WOWY's I'd probably conclude that Severson is a better Dman than Larsson.

When I looked a little deeper I found:

-Larsson has the toughest zone starts in the NHL, while Severson had some of the easiest zone starts in the NHL.
-Larsson has better expected goal results with more players than Severson
-Larrson outperformed Severon in 7 of the 8 expected goal metrics that we examined with the centers despite having much tough zone starts.
-Larsson played against elite forwards more than Severson

Its pretty easy to conclude that Larsson is the better Dman when you include all of these factors.

The graph below pretty much explains it in one picture.

-The y-axis is quality of competition using xGF% of competitors as the measure.
-The x-axis is zone starts ratio
-The color of the bubble is expected GF% (blue good, red bad)
-The size of the bubble is TOI%.



https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5v1t58Wu0Bs/V7E0AviVmNI/AAAAAAAAArE/weDY7V1iFJI7tv3wSAqNx4CMJFuzE9iWwCLcB/s640/USAGE%2BCHART.png


Another funny graph from that article:

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-N9Mjfsy5LhQ/V7E4iCr1qTI/AAAAAAAAArQ/q-NkzVuHPC8kXMqrvA6Nzt_pb9z-SQhsACLcB/s1600/DMEN%2BDZFO.png

Can probably guess who the 2 guys are at the far right with the most difficult D zone start% in the NHL. Green #2 and Larsson #1 in percentage of zone starts in D zone 5v5. We already knew they were way out there, but funny to see it charted vs the rest of D in the league.


And just a side note, Willis really needs to learn some more about math and analytics. Lately it really seems like he's slammed into a wall of what his mind is able to understand, and he has shifted all his energy to becoming more mainstream. He's turning out a lot of unfortunate articles, and his ego and arrogance seems to be increasing with each one he writes. I expected he would be a guy that kept trying to explore and learn more and more about analytics stuff to evolve his understanding, but he seems totally satisfied now that he knows just enough to make blanket statements he can write articles about with just enough data that he can throw up as a wall vs the average joe responses (by suggesting you're argument is on a higher plane that they just don't understand), and just ignore the more difficult to counter analytics-based arguments.

[Updated on: Sat, 27 August 2016 19:46]

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #676393 is a reply to message #676361 ]
Tue, 30 August 2016 10:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Magnum is currently offline Magnum
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Disagree on Willis, his opinion pieces are way better than his hard analytics pieces. He seemed to be extrapolating the impossible and not giving any credence to the basics, like points, speed, etc.

I love his articles now.

ModEdit... no need to quote that gigantic post.

2015/2016 - This Kool-Aid tastes like McDavid flavoured Drain-O.
2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.
2017/2018 - I'm drinking this Kool-Aid, in hopes that it's Drain-O.
2018/2019 - Another round of Drain-O, good sir!

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #676394 is a reply to message #676393 ]
Tue, 30 August 2016 11:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently online Kr55
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Magnum wrote on Tue, 30 August 2016 10:56

Disagree on Willis, his opinion pieces are way better than his hard analytics pieces. He seemed to be extrapolating the impossible and not giving any credence to the basics, like points, speed, etc.

I love his articles now.

ModEdit... no need to quote that gigantic post.


He has a long way to go for me to take his opinions seriously again after all his garbage posts about the Hall and Larsson trade.

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- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #676395 is a reply to message #676394 ]
Tue, 30 August 2016 16:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 30 August 2016 11:18

Magnum wrote on Tue, 30 August 2016 10:56

Disagree on Willis, his opinion pieces are way better than his hard analytics pieces. He seemed to be extrapolating the impossible and not giving any credence to the basics, like points, speed, etc.

I love his articles now.

ModEdit... no need to quote that gigantic post.


He has a long way to go for me to take his opinions seriously again after all his garbage posts about the Hall and Larsson trade.


Agreed.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #676399 is a reply to message #673755 ]
Tue, 30 August 2016 20:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Pretty decent interview by Gregor with Taylor Hall: http://www.tsn.ca/radio/edmonton-1260/shows/hall-reflects-on -trade-1.558206

He doesn't give the stereotypical rehearsed answers. He's bitter no doubt.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #676400 is a reply to message #676399 ]
Tue, 30 August 2016 20:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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jds308 wrote on Tue, 30 August 2016 20:22

Pretty decent interview by Gregor with Taylor Hall: http://www.tsn.ca/radio/edmonton-1260/shows/hall-reflects-on -trade-1.558206

He doesn't give the stereotypical rehearsed answers. He's bitter no doubt.


Found it interesting that when Gregor asked him if he'd even consider signing here when he becomes a UFA down the road his response was basically "No. I've done my time there". Granted he's pretty raw about the trade, but ouch.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #676403 is a reply to message #676400 ]
Tue, 30 August 2016 21:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Gator21 wrote on Tue, 30 August 2016 19:40

jds308 wrote on Tue, 30 August 2016 20:22

Pretty decent interview by Gregor with Taylor Hall: http://www.tsn.ca/radio/edmonton-1260/shows/hall-reflects-on -trade-1.558206

He doesn't give the stereotypical rehearsed answers. He's bitter no doubt.


Found it interesting that when Gregor asked him if he'd even consider signing here when he becomes a UFA down the road his response was basically "No. I've done my time there". Granted he's pretty raw about the trade, but ouch.


Yeah that's what I mean, the "canned" answer would be "I'm not thinking about that right now, focussing what's in front of me, blah, blah, blah" but he made a point of saying he wouldn't go back. He did backtrack a bit a few sentences later, but still. He made his feelings clear. A highly motivated Taylor Hall with something to prove will be a good thing for New Jersey.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #676404 is a reply to message #676403 ]
Tue, 30 August 2016 22:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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jds308 wrote on Tue, 30 August 2016 20:16

Gator21 wrote on Tue, 30 August 2016 19:40

jds308 wrote on Tue, 30 August 2016 20:22

Pretty decent interview by Gregor with Taylor Hall: http://www.tsn.ca/radio/edmonton-1260/shows/hall-reflects-on -trade-1.558206

He doesn't give the stereotypical rehearsed answers. He's bitter no doubt.


Found it interesting that when Gregor asked him if he'd even consider signing here when he becomes a UFA down the road his response was basically "No. I've done my time there". Granted he's pretty raw about the trade, but ouch.


Yeah that's what I mean, the "canned" answer would be "I'm not thinking about that right now, focussing what's in front of me, blah, blah, blah" but he made a point of saying he wouldn't go back. He did backtrack a bit a few sentences later, but still. He made his feelings clear. A highly motivated Taylor Hall with something to prove will be a good thing for New Jersey.


He's always been motivated, it's a question of does he use motivation to keep playing the way he has or use it to remove the knocks on his game, like trying to toe drag through Dmen that aren't biting or making smarter plays that don't result in 200ft turnovers. I mean he's a top player, but he could be better if he smartened up.

Regardless, I can't see anyway he doesn't score a hat trick on us every time we play him for the remainder of his career.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #676424 is a reply to message #676400 ]
Wed, 31 August 2016 13:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Gator21 wrote on Tue, 30 August 2016 20:40

jds308 wrote on Tue, 30 August 2016 20:22

Pretty decent interview by Gregor with Taylor Hall: http://www.tsn.ca/radio/edmonton-1260/shows/hall-reflects-on -trade-1.558206

He doesn't give the stereotypical rehearsed answers. He's bitter no doubt.


Found it interesting that when Gregor asked him if he'd even consider signing here when he becomes a UFA down the road his response was basically "No. I've done my time there". Granted he's pretty raw about the trade, but ouch.


Something to think about. You obviously take him saying "No" to resigning as a slight at the Oilers. Hall is going to a brand new team. Other than a media availability, he's probably barely been in New Jersey. No fan has seen him play yet. He's probably talked to and seen a couple of future teammates but overall, he probably hasn't talked to the majority of his future teammates.

How would it sound to the owners, GM, coach and the teammates of his brand new team if Hall came out and said "Hell yeah, I would sign with the Oilers, I plan on doing it as soon as my contract is up"? I suppose he could have went super neutral but I don't think what people expected him to say to that question.

My personal opinion. Nothing is set in stone. If in 4 years from now when Hall's deal is up, the Oilers are a top end team, challenging for the cup, McDavid is the best player in the world, I don't think ALL free agents would have some level of interest in the Oilers.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #676425 is a reply to message #676424 ]
Wed, 31 August 2016 13:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 31 August 2016 13:52

Gator21 wrote on Tue, 30 August 2016 20:40

jds308 wrote on Tue, 30 August 2016 20:22

Pretty decent interview by Gregor with Taylor Hall: http://www.tsn.ca/radio/edmonton-1260/shows/hall-reflects-on -trade-1.558206

He doesn't give the stereotypical rehearsed answers. He's bitter no doubt.


Found it interesting that when Gregor asked him if he'd even consider signing here when he becomes a UFA down the road his response was basically "No. I've done my time there". Granted he's pretty raw about the trade, but ouch.


Something to think about. You obviously take him saying "No" to resigning as a slight at the Oilers. Hall is going to a brand new team. Other than a media availability, he's probably barely been in New Jersey. No fan has seen him play yet. He's probably talked to and seen a couple of future teammates but overall, he probably hasn't talked to the majority of his future teammates.

How would it sound to the owners, GM, coach and the teammates of his brand new team if Hall came out and said "Hell yeah, I would sign with the Oilers, I plan on doing it as soon as my contract is up"? I suppose he could have went super neutral but I don't think what people expected him to say to that question.

My personal opinion. Nothing is set in stone. If in 4 years from now when Hall's deal is up, the Oilers are a top end team, challenging for the cup, McDavid is the best player in the world, I don't think ALL free agents would have some level of interest in the Oilers.


The normal response of an NHL pro would be that he is not thinking that far ahead and wants to be the best he can be for the team he is on right now.

The "no" he gave had a very bitter tone. Almost over the top tone, like he wants to be sure it's obvious he is still mad about the trade. I'm sure some like how candid he is showing his displeasure in how he felt slighted. But, just another hint of how his personality may not be conducive to leadership.

He did later suggest there may be changes that would make him change his mind, but that would likely mean a true cleaning house of Oilers management, which would never happen of course :)

[Updated on: Wed, 31 August 2016 14:07]

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #676427 is a reply to message #676425 ]
Wed, 31 August 2016 14:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 31 August 2016 12:59

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 31 August 2016 13:52

Gator21 wrote on Tue, 30 August 2016 20:40

jds308 wrote on Tue, 30 August 2016 20:22

Pretty decent interview by Gregor with Taylor Hall: http://www.tsn.ca/radio/edmonton-1260/shows/hall-reflects-on -trade-1.558206

He doesn't give the stereotypical rehearsed answers. He's bitter no doubt.


Found it interesting that when Gregor asked him if he'd even consider signing here when he becomes a UFA down the road his response was basically "No. I've done my time there". Granted he's pretty raw about the trade, but ouch.


Something to think about. You obviously take him saying "No" to resigning as a slight at the Oilers. Hall is going to a brand new team. Other than a media availability, he's probably barely been in New Jersey. No fan has seen him play yet. He's probably talked to and seen a couple of future teammates but overall, he probably hasn't talked to the majority of his future teammates.

How would it sound to the owners, GM, coach and the teammates of his brand new team if Hall came out and said "Hell yeah, I would sign with the Oilers, I plan on doing it as soon as my contract is up"? I suppose he could have went super neutral but I don't think what people expected him to say to that question.

My personal opinion. Nothing is set in stone. If in 4 years from now when Hall's deal is up, the Oilers are a top end team, challenging for the cup, McDavid is the best player in the world, I don't think ALL free agents would have some level of interest in the Oilers.


The normal response of an NHL pro would be that he is not thinking that far ahead and wants to be the best he can be for the team he is on right now.

The "no" he gave had a very bitter tone. Almost over the top tone, like he wants to be sure it's obvious he is still mad about the trade. I'm sure some like how candid he is showing his displeasure in how he felt slighted. But, just another hint of how his personality may not be conducive to leadership.


I'm not in the Hall Character Problems camp, however.... When asked if he's learned anything since being traded, he commented that he now understands "it's a business".... So he's watched as the entire roster has turned over close to 3 times since 2010 and he's just now realizing it's a business? Where did he think all those players went? Candy Land? He signed a 6M x8 year contract, was that when he picked his career in Game of Life? What this tells me is there was definitely a huge sense of entitlement with Hall. He likely felt like he was untouchable.

I also wonder if his ego is wounded by the return, or lack there of? Not that I expected Gregor to ask him that, but perhaps Hall thinks he was worth PK Subban and being traded 1 for 1 for Larsson is less than flattering. I dunno. Just thinking out loud here.

[Updated on: Wed, 31 August 2016 16:53]

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #676428 is a reply to message #676427 ]
Wed, 31 August 2016 14:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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jds308 wrote on Wed, 31 August 2016 14:13

What this tells me is there was definitely a huge sense of entitlement with Hall. He likely felt like he was untouchable.


What on earth could have ever given him that impression or reinforced that attitude?

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #676432 is a reply to message #676428 ]
Wed, 31 August 2016 15:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 31 August 2016 14:18

jds308 wrote on Wed, 31 August 2016 14:13

What this tells me is there was definitely a huge sense of entitlement with Hall. He likely felt like he was untouchable.


What on earth could have ever given him that impression or reinforced that attitude?

Hey, I'm as surprised as anyone the last six years went as poorly as they did. It's almost impossible to dig down and find root causes at this point.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #676446 is a reply to message #676432 ]
Thu, 01 September 2016 11:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 31 August 2016 15:28

mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 31 August 2016 14:18

jds308 wrote on Wed, 31 August 2016 14:13

What this tells me is there was definitely a huge sense of entitlement with Hall. He likely felt like he was untouchable.


What on earth could have ever given him that impression or reinforced that attitude?

Hey, I'm as surprised as anyone the last six years went as poorly as they did. It's almost impossible to dig down and find root causes at this point.


At this point, why can't Oilers fans just forgive and forget those root causes anyhow? It's not like they could possibly screw up the next 10 years too, right?

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #676450 is a reply to message #676446 ]
Thu, 01 September 2016 15:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Thu, 01 September 2016 11:25

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 31 August 2016 15:28

mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 31 August 2016 14:18

jds308 wrote on Wed, 31 August 2016 14:13

What this tells me is there was definitely a huge sense of entitlement with Hall. He likely felt like he was untouchable.


What on earth could have ever given him that impression or reinforced that attitude?

Hey, I'm as surprised as anyone the last six years went as poorly as they did. It's almost impossible to dig down and find root causes at this point.


At this point, why can't Oilers fans just forgive and forget those root causes anyhow? It's not like they could possibly screw up the next 10 years too, right?


You can't fire the cyclical nature of the game, and there is no point in blaming success from the 80s. Even though those are the root causes of the problem, you need to look ahead. Don't look back.

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2018/2019 - Another round of Drain-O, good sir!

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #676433 is a reply to message #676427 ]
Wed, 31 August 2016 15:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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jds308 wrote on Wed, 31 August 2016 15:13


I'm not in the Hall Character Problems camp, however.... When asked if he's learned anything since being traded, he commented that he now understands "it's a business".... So he's watched as the entire roster has turned over close to 3 times since 2010 and he's just now realizing it's a business? Where did he think all those players went? Candy Land? He signed a 6M x8 year contract, was that when he picked his career in Game of Life? What this tells me is there was definitely a huge sense of entitlement with Hall. He likely felt like he was untouchable.



Not to mention he had already played under 4 coaches in a 6 year span under the same franchise that drafted him

[Updated on: Wed, 31 August 2016 15:34]

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #676434 is a reply to message #676433 ]
Wed, 31 August 2016 15:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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jds308 wrote on Wed, 31 August 2016 15:13


I'm not in the Hall Character Problems camp, however.... When asked if he's learned anything since being traded, he commented that he now understands "it's a business".... So he's watched as the entire roster has turned over close to 3 times since 2010 and he's just now realizing it's a business? Where did he think all those players went? Candy Land? He signed a 6M x8 year contract, was that when he picked his career in Game of Life? What this tells me is there was definitely a huge sense of entitlement with Hall. He likely felt like he was untouchable.



Sounds like something that someone with attitude issues, who get everyone on the team addicted to coke, and who's lips are too big, would say.

Whatever monster lips, we wanted Seguin anyway.

2015/2016 - This Kool-Aid tastes like McDavid flavoured Drain-O.
2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.
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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #676426 is a reply to message #676424 ]
Wed, 31 August 2016 14:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 31 August 2016 12:52

Gator21 wrote on Tue, 30 August 2016 20:40

jds308 wrote on Tue, 30 August 2016 20:22

Pretty decent interview by Gregor with Taylor Hall: http://www.tsn.ca/radio/edmonton-1260/shows/hall-reflects-on -trade-1.558206

He doesn't give the stereotypical rehearsed answers. He's bitter no doubt.


Found it interesting that when Gregor asked him if he'd even consider signing here when he becomes a UFA down the road his response was basically "No. I've done my time there". Granted he's pretty raw about the trade, but ouch.


Something to think about. You obviously take him saying "No" to resigning as a slight at the Oilers. Hall is going to a brand new team. Other than a media availability, he's probably barely been in New Jersey. No fan has seen him play yet. He's probably talked to and seen a couple of future teammates but overall, he probably hasn't talked to the majority of his future teammates.

How would it sound to the owners, GM, coach and the teammates of his brand new team if Hall came out and said "Hell yeah, I would sign with the Oilers, I plan on doing it as soon as my contract is up"? I suppose he could have went super neutral but I don't think what people expected him to say to that question.

My personal opinion. Nothing is set in stone. If in 4 years from now when Hall's deal is up, the Oilers are a top end team, challenging for the cup, McDavid is the best player in the world, I don't think ALL free agents would have some level of interest in the Oilers.


You're totally right in that it would idiotic of him to say anything about re-signing anywhere at this point. It would be a slap in the face to the team that just acquired him. And of course, lots can change in 4 years. I'm not taking him at his word today that he will NEVER sign with the Oilers. In fact, I think it's a silly conversation at this point. What I found interesting was that his comments clearly show that he's still bitter and not happy about being traded. There's some resentment for sure.


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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #676429 is a reply to message #676426 ]
Wed, 31 August 2016 14:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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jds308 wrote on Wed, 31 August 2016 14:05

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 31 August 2016 12:52

Gator21 wrote on Tue, 30 August 2016 20:40

jds308 wrote on Tue, 30 August 2016 20:22

Pretty decent interview by Gregor with Taylor Hall: http://www.tsn.ca/radio/edmonton-1260/shows/hall-reflects-on -trade-1.558206

He doesn't give the stereotypical rehearsed answers. He's bitter no doubt.


Found it interesting that when Gregor asked him if he'd even consider signing here when he becomes a UFA down the road his response was basically "No. I've done my time there". Granted he's pretty raw about the trade, but ouch.


Something to think about. You obviously take him saying "No" to resigning as a slight at the Oilers. Hall is going to a brand new team. Other than a media availability, he's probably barely been in New Jersey. No fan has seen him play yet. He's probably talked to and seen a couple of future teammates but overall, he probably hasn't talked to the majority of his future teammates.

How would it sound to the owners, GM, coach and the teammates of his brand new team if Hall came out and said "Hell yeah, I would sign with the Oilers, I plan on doing it as soon as my contract is up"? I suppose he could have went super neutral but I don't think what people expected him to say to that question.

My personal opinion. Nothing is set in stone. If in 4 years from now when Hall's deal is up, the Oilers are a top end team, challenging for the cup, McDavid is the best player in the world, I don't think ALL free agents would have some level of interest in the Oilers.


You're totally right in that it would idiotic of him to say anything about re-signing anywhere at this point. It would be a slap in the face to the team that just acquired him. And of course, lots can change in 4 years. I'm not taking him at his word today that he will NEVER sign with the Oilers. In fact, I think it's a silly conversation at this point. What I found interesting was that his comments clearly show that he's still bitter and not happy about being traded. There's some resentment for sure.



I think it was a stupid question by Gregor. Hall just had an interview last week were he was clearly still bitter about the trade. Of course he's going to say "no way" when asked by a Edmonton media guy. Gregor did it to stir the pot. If in 4 years, Hall is still holding a grudge against the Oilers, then he's got a problem.

[Updated on: Wed, 31 August 2016 14:23]

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #676430 is a reply to message #676400 ]
Wed, 31 August 2016 14:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner is currently offline mightyreasoner
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Gator21 wrote on Tue, 30 August 2016 20:40

jds308 wrote on Tue, 30 August 2016 20:22

Pretty decent interview by Gregor with Taylor Hall: http://www.tsn.ca/radio/edmonton-1260/shows/hall-reflects-on -trade-1.558206

He doesn't give the stereotypical rehearsed answers. He's bitter no doubt.


Found it interesting that when Gregor asked him if he'd even consider signing here when he becomes a UFA down the road his response was basically "No. I've done my time there". Granted he's pretty raw about the trade, but ouch.


Yeah, interesting interview.

He sounded pretty resolute on the door being closed in Edmonton. I don't think he was/is happy about it, but like I said earlier, that's not a problem for me. He gave an honest answer without throwing mud on the team. All good, IMO.

One part I found interesting was at the end when he and Gregor were kind of talking about the Oilers vs. Devils games. I thought it was really interesting first of all that he was happy the Oilers played in NJ before he played in Edmonton and second, that he was happy that he wouldn't have to play again in Rexall Place where there were a lot of memories but instead got to walk into a new building. Pretty candid and unscripted moment at the end there.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #676431 is a reply to message #676430 ]
Wed, 31 August 2016 15:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bigred75 is currently offline bigred75
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mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 31 August 2016 14:31

Gator21 wrote on Tue, 30 August 2016 20:40

jds308 wrote on Tue, 30 August 2016 20:22

Pretty decent interview by Gregor with Taylor Hall: http://www.tsn.ca/radio/edmonton-1260/shows/hall-reflects-on -trade-1.558206

He doesn't give the stereotypical rehearsed answers. He's bitter no doubt.


Found it interesting that when Gregor asked him if he'd even consider signing here when he becomes a UFA down the road his response was basically "No. I've done my time there". Granted he's pretty raw about the trade, but ouch.


Yeah, interesting interview.

He sounded pretty resolute on the door being closed in Edmonton. I don't think he was/is happy about it, but like I said earlier, that's not a problem for me. He gave an honest answer without throwing mud on the team. All good, IMO.

One part I found interesting was at the end when he and Gregor were kind of talking about the Oilers vs. Devils games. I thought it was really interesting first of all that he was happy the Oilers played in NJ before he played in Edmonton and second, that he was happy that he wouldn't have to play again in Rexall Place where there were a lot of memories but instead got to walk into a new building. Pretty candid and unscripted moment at the end there.


Umm, how many people here have gone back to the same job after moving on? Exactly.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #676435 is a reply to message #676431 ]
Wed, 31 August 2016 17:13 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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I'm expecting Hall to score around 75 pts. I think there system is going to hamper his offense and I think that point level is where he will be as a player over his career.

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 Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #676437 is a reply to message #676435 ]
Wed, 31 August 2016 20:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 31 August 2016 17:13

I'm expecting Hall to score around 75 pts. I think there system is going to hamper his offense and I think that point level is where he will be as a player over his career.


So in other words a top ten or top twelve player in the league?

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