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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #672702 is a reply to message #672694 ]
Mon, 20 June 2016 13:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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Magnum wrote on Mon, 20 June 2016 12:13

OilPeg wrote on Mon, 20 June 2016 12:11

Adam wrote on Mon, 20 June 2016 12:13

CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 20 June 2016 10:04

There is a metric ton of downtown parking within walking distance of the arena. I'm sure 800 extra spaces at 20 bucks a space times exactly 45 games per year (41 regular season, 4 pre-season, 0 playoffs) wouldn't hurt the bottom line though.


Agreed. Parking downtown is not in short supply, and people can even walk inside the bulk of the way, even if they're parking at the Citadel or under the Telus building (not recommended, the Telus parking lot is ridiculously expensive).

I agree with the councillor too - open lots are eye sores, and 10 years is a very long time. It's a cash cow for the guy owning it. He can sell parking during the day and at night for events, and his maintenance for a gravel lot is incredibly small.

I hope they stick to their guns on this.


Winnipeg's arena is downtown and there was no additional parking lots built of the size they're talking about here. Even after the return of the Jets. There is tons of places to park downtown Winnipeg, I'm sure Edmonton will be fine too.


Seeing as parking in downtown Edmonton on a Friday night is already a nightmare, I tend to disagree.



Where are you trying to park?

There's three lots off the Mall, there's the cavernous Library parkade. There's still lots of ground level lots. There's multiple lots along 102nd close to Jasper. Most of the buildings (Telus, Commerce, Scotia, Bell Tower) all have underground lots. The Chateau Lacombe parking lot is quite big. There's a couple of lots by the Shaw.

There are way more people working downtown than going to Oilers games, so I don't think there should be a big problem with parking. You may have to walk a ways, but that's already true with Northlands, and with the pedways, you can stay inside most of the way.


"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #672771 is a reply to message #672702 ]
Tue, 21 June 2016 10:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Magnum is currently offline Magnum
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Adam wrote on Mon, 20 June 2016 13:07

Magnum wrote on Mon, 20 June 2016 12:13

OilPeg wrote on Mon, 20 June 2016 12:11

Adam wrote on Mon, 20 June 2016 12:13

CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 20 June 2016 10:04

There is a metric ton of downtown parking within walking distance of the arena. I'm sure 800 extra spaces at 20 bucks a space times exactly 45 games per year (41 regular season, 4 pre-season, 0 playoffs) wouldn't hurt the bottom line though.


Agreed. Parking downtown is not in short supply, and people can even walk inside the bulk of the way, even if they're parking at the Citadel or under the Telus building (not recommended, the Telus parking lot is ridiculously expensive).

I agree with the councillor too - open lots are eye sores, and 10 years is a very long time. It's a cash cow for the guy owning it. He can sell parking during the day and at night for events, and his maintenance for a gravel lot is incredibly small.

I hope they stick to their guns on this.


Winnipeg's arena is downtown and there was no additional parking lots built of the size they're talking about here. Even after the return of the Jets. There is tons of places to park downtown Winnipeg, I'm sure Edmonton will be fine too.


Seeing as parking in downtown Edmonton on a Friday night is already a nightmare, I tend to disagree.



Where are you trying to park?

There's three lots off the Mall, there's the cavernous Library parkade. There's still lots of ground level lots. There's multiple lots along 102nd close to Jasper. Most of the buildings (Telus, Commerce, Scotia, Bell Tower) all have underground lots. The Chateau Lacombe parking lot is quite big. There's a couple of lots by the Shaw.

There are way more people working downtown than going to Oilers games, so I don't think there should be a big problem with parking. You may have to walk a ways, but that's already true with Northlands, and with the pedways, you can stay inside most of the way.



If I want to go to nearly any good pub, I'm lucky to get street parking within five blocks and the parkades are always packed, throw in an extra 10,000 cars, and yeah, you'll have some issues.

2015/2016 - This Kool-Aid tastes like McDavid flavoured Drain-O.
2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.
2017/2018 - I'm drinking this Kool-Aid, in hopes that it's Drain-O.
2018/2019 - Another round of Drain-O, good sir!

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #672775 is a reply to message #672771 ]
Tue, 21 June 2016 10:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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The traffic all around the arena is going to be INSANE before games. I wouldn't even for a second consider taking anything but the LRT to a game.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #672777 is a reply to message #672775 ]
Tue, 21 June 2016 10:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently online CrusaderPi
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 21 June 2016 10:39

The traffic all around the arena is going to be INSANE before games. I wouldn't even for a second consider taking anything but the LRT to a game.

Oh if you're driving withing 3 blocks of Ice District around game time you're nuts, unless you know an efficient route to and from a specific point. Northlands is like that too now. If you drive aimlessly towards the arena on game night you are going to have a bad time with traffic. Fortunately, for people like me, there are a lot more roads and super sneaky parking spaces in and around downtown.

Metered parking near Ice District will likely still be free on game nights, just like around Northlands and Commonwealth, but it'll be restricted to 2 hours and HEAVILY enforced. Don't break street parking bylaws downtown. Ever. The one thing the City of Edmonton is good at is enforcing downtown parking laws. Parking laws and effective revenue generation from the unsafe practice of photo traffic enforcement, but whatever that is replenishing all the money they lost on the previous contract - so who can complain, right? (They're certainly not good at other things like contract management, LRT lines, managing effective and efficient traffic flow, bridges, sewer systems, basically any form of construction, and managing growth).

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #672779 is a reply to message #672777 ]
Tue, 21 June 2016 11:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 21 June 2016 10:52

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 21 June 2016 10:39

The traffic all around the arena is going to be INSANE before games. I wouldn't even for a second consider taking anything but the LRT to a game.

Oh if you're driving withing 3 blocks of Ice District around game time you're nuts, unless you know an efficient route to and from a specific point. Northlands is like that too now. If you drive aimlessly towards the arena on game night you are going to have a bad time with traffic. Fortunately, for people like me, there are a lot more roads and super sneaky parking spaces in and around downtown.

Metered parking near Ice District will likely still be free on game nights, just like around Northlands and Commonwealth, but it'll be restricted to 2 hours and HEAVILY enforced. Don't break street parking bylaws downtown. Ever. The one thing the City of Edmonton is good at is enforcing downtown parking laws. Parking laws and effective revenue generation from the unsafe practice of photo traffic enforcement, but whatever that is replenishing all the money they lost on the previous contract - so who can complain, right? (They're certainly not good at other things like contract management, LRT lines, managing effective and efficient traffic flow, bridges, sewer systems, basically any form of construction, and managing growth).


I think there's going to be a lot of factors that make traffic better with the new place than it ever was at Rexall.

- There will be less people going there right at game time, because a huge population works downtown and may just stay in the vicinity.
- With food and drink options around the rink, more people will show up early and stay close to the rink after the game. You won't immediately have 17,000 people trying to get out.
- Given the extensive pedway system downtown, people will be able to park further away without braving the cold for blocks and blocks.
- There's more parking options around than in the Rexall neighbourhood.
- There are more roads in and out of downtown than their are in to the Northlands area.

If you have to cross the river, there will be some bottlenecks, just like at rush hour, but it won't be as bad because the timing of departures will spread out a little and it's less cars than during rush hour.

I think I'm likely going to take the train usually too. I do think it's an easier option than driving, and it's cheaper two unless you have more than two people going.

I would really like to see the Oilers work with the city to have the same deal that the Esks do with regards to public transport, but that's probably too much to ask.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #672793 is a reply to message #672775 ]
Tue, 21 June 2016 12:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rocksteady is currently offline Rocksteady
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 21 June 2016 10:39

The traffic all around the arena is going to be INSANE before games. I wouldn't even for a second consider taking anything but the LRT to a game.


Seconded. LRT or bust.

The very definition of insanity is doing the exact same thing expecting different results.

Generally Disappointed.

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #672795 is a reply to message #672775 ]
Tue, 21 June 2016 12:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
feepa is currently offline feepa
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How is it going to be insane?

How do the 80,000 to 100,000 people that go downtown to work/school make it there? 18,000 isn't that much, and many will just go from the office, to somewhere to eat, then to the arena, many others will take LRT...

I dont think traffic is going to be insane, at least it won't be anymore than the current rush hours, and most games start a few hours after the majority of the rush hour is over.

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #672796 is a reply to message #672795 ]
Tue, 21 June 2016 12:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently online CrusaderPi
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feepa wrote on Tue, 21 June 2016 12:46

How is it going to be insane?

How do the 80,000 to 100,000 people that go downtown to work/school make it there? 18,000 isn't that much, and many will just go from the office, to somewhere to eat, then to the arena, many others will take LRT...

I dont think traffic is going to be insane, at least it won't be anymore than the current rush hours, and most games start a few hours after the majority of the rush hour is over.

Well, 18,000+ people converging for the same time on 9.5 acres will be insane, but just in the area immediately around Rogers Place. It's not really that comparable 80,000 converging on the whole of downtown sometime between the hours of 7 and 9 am.

I do agree that downtown has a large number of escape route and traffic won't be that bad (except along the 109st corridor, but that has everything to do with city mismanagement and will continue to be awful at all times of day irrespective of the Oilers).

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #672834 is a reply to message #672796 ]
Tue, 21 June 2016 16:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NetBOG is currently offline NetBOG
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CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 21 June 2016 12:57

feepa wrote on Tue, 21 June 2016 12:46

How is it going to be insane?

How do the 80,000 to 100,000 people that go downtown to work/school make it there? 18,000 isn't that much, and many will just go from the office, to somewhere to eat, then to the arena, many others will take LRT...

I dont think traffic is going to be insane, at least it won't be anymore than the current rush hours, and most games start a few hours after the majority of the rush hour is over.

Well, 18,000+ people converging for the same time on 9.5 acres will be insane, but just in the area immediately around Rogers Place. It's not really that comparable 80,000 converging on the whole of downtown sometime between the hours of 7 and 9 am.

I do agree that downtown has a large number of escape route and traffic won't be that bad (except along the 109st corridor, but that has everything to do with city mismanagement and will continue to be awful at all times of day irrespective of the Oilers).


People that are looking to go South and East should have a few options to get out of downtown but going South and West, West, or North are going to have a fight.

The Oliver Community League is fully committed to crippling traffic on Jasper ave and 104th ave west of downtown. Couple that with the train going West which will ruin traffic on Stony Plain Road as badly as it has on 111th St and going west on anything south of 107th ave will be a no go.

The High Level Bridge is a nightmare at the best of times, trying to go south and get anywhere west of 99th street will be impossible.

All of the traffic trying to get out of town north (most of the people coming from out of town) will converge on 99th because its the only realistic way to get to the Yellowed. That'll be tough too.

And expecting the LRT to absorb some of the load is just stupid. You can get to the games now on LRT and can get to the games at the new place on LRT. Why would anything change?

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #672835 is a reply to message #672834 ]
Tue, 21 June 2016 16:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently online CrusaderPi
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NetBOG wrote on Tue, 21 June 2016 16:06

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 21 June 2016 12:57

feepa wrote on Tue, 21 June 2016 12:46

How is it going to be insane?

How do the 80,000 to 100,000 people that go downtown to work/school make it there? 18,000 isn't that much, and many will just go from the office, to somewhere to eat, then to the arena, many others will take LRT...

I dont think traffic is going to be insane, at least it won't be anymore than the current rush hours, and most games start a few hours after the majority of the rush hour is over.

Well, 18,000+ people converging for the same time on 9.5 acres will be insane, but just in the area immediately around Rogers Place. It's not really that comparable 80,000 converging on the whole of downtown sometime between the hours of 7 and 9 am.

I do agree that downtown has a large number of escape route and traffic won't be that bad (except along the 109st corridor, but that has everything to do with city mismanagement and will continue to be awful at all times of day irrespective of the Oilers).


People that are looking to go South and East should have a few options to get out of downtown but going South and West, West, or North are going to have a fight.

The Oliver Community League is fully committed to crippling traffic on Jasper ave and 104th ave west of downtown. Couple that with the train going West which will ruin traffic on Stony Plain Road as badly as it has on 111th St and going west on anything south of 107th ave will be a no go.

The High Level Bridge is a nightmare at the best of times, trying to go south and get anywhere west of 99th street will be impossible.

All of the traffic trying to get out of town north (most of the people coming from out of town) will converge on 99th because its the only realistic way to get to the Yellowed. That'll be tough too.

And expecting the LRT to absorb some of the load is just stupid. You can get to the games now on LRT and can get to the games at the new place on LRT. Why would anything change?

Going west on Jasper makes as much sense as going south on 109. Yes, it's a big bold line on a map and I know the google traffic algorithm loves big bold lines, but you're a sucker if you ever take those roads. Ever. There are many ways to go south, east, north, and west. Your job is to find the best one for you. Protip from an aggressive outlier of a driver: it isn't 109th or Jasper in any direction at any time of day.

Since we all seem to be concerned about traffic and getting the hell away from Rogers Place I'd like to stand on a soapbox for just a moment and yell something: people care about their lives, their time, and how much of it is needlessly occupied by poor decision making from city planners who are consumed with their utopian vision of what this city could be rather that dealing with the reality of what Edmonton is and the inconvenient fact that people are currently living and working here. Yes, it is important to allow all modes of transportation, but people living on the fringes should never take priority over the efficient and effective movement of people and products. The simplest way to reduce the number of vehicles on the road is to reduce the amount of time each trip takes.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #672870 is a reply to message #672835 ]
Wed, 22 June 2016 09:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
feepa is currently offline feepa
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CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 21 June 2016 16:16


people care about their lives, their time, and how much of it is needlessly occupied by poor decision making from city planners who are consumed with their utopian vision of what this city could be rather that dealing with the reality of what Edmonton is and the inconvenient fact that people are currently living and working here. Yes, it is important to allow all modes of transportation, but people living on the fringes should never take priority over the efficient and effective movement of people and products. The simplest way to reduce the number of vehicles on the road is to reduce the amount of time each trip takes.


I'm not sure what you are complaining about here? Adding more traffic lanes and capacity just further increases the desire for people to sprawl out in low density, which just adds to the problem, not decreasing it.

Perhaps people who don't enjoy spending their time on the road should consider moving closer to their places of work or places they enjoy going out to.

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #672902 is a reply to message #672870 ]
Wed, 22 June 2016 11:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently online CrusaderPi
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feepa wrote on Wed, 22 June 2016 09:27

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 21 June 2016 16:16


people care about their lives, their time, and how much of it is needlessly occupied by poor decision making from city planners who are consumed with their utopian vision of what this city could be rather that dealing with the reality of what Edmonton is and the inconvenient fact that people are currently living and working here. Yes, it is important to allow all modes of transportation, but people living on the fringes should never take priority over the efficient and effective movement of people and products. The simplest way to reduce the number of vehicles on the road is to reduce the amount of time each trip takes.


I'm not sure what you are complaining about here? Adding more traffic lanes and capacity just further increases the desire for people to sprawl out in low density, which just adds to the problem, not decreasing it.

Perhaps people who don't enjoy spending their time on the road should consider moving closer to their places of work or places they enjoy going out to.

I love the line that people who don't like having their time wasted on roads should just move closer to work. It's just that easy right? I should simply consider re-arranging my life because traffic? Right? Feepa, I read everything you write here and you're a smart guy, but your focus has a bias towards what you'd like Edmonton to be at the expense of what it is now and what the people who live here now need. It's fine in theory, but when that way of thinking is prevalent among planners it has a large negative impact on residents. Trust me, my ideal living situation is to live next door to where I work now so I could wake up at 7:55 and still get to work on time. I'd also like to have a job at my neighbor's place, but neither is feasible so I'm sort of stuck in my current arrangement.

What am I complaining about? Poor decision making in regards to transportation projects with indifference to the people who use the infrastructure. At no point did I say let's just add lanes and capacity. What I said, perhaps poorly, is that efficiency and effective use of current infrastructure should be the priority. This means, to me, reducing the impact of minor construction, reducing the number of signals, reducing the impacts of signals, reducing the number of intersections, reducing the number of left hand turns (while still allowing for left hand turns where necessary), eliminating enforcement for the sake of revenue generation, designing better systems for handling pedestrians and cyclists rather than creating routes for them at the expense of vehicles, and completing major infrastructure projects on time with minimal impact to the people who rely on that major infrastructure.


Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #672906 is a reply to message #672902 ]
Wed, 22 June 2016 11:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
feepa is currently offline feepa
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I'm not expecting everyone to live next to their employer, but choosing to live in the SW when you work in Fort Saskatchewan isn't the smartest idea I've heard, or the lady I bumped into the other day complaining about how long her commute is to go from her st albert house to her employer in millwoods... NO poop!

The world doesn't need to be paved over, and as much as the city making better infrastructure decisions, we also need to look at our own personal decisions on where we live.

Living far away from everything? Your going to be driving a lot, and stuck in traffic a lot. It's not just an Edmonton problem. It's a big city problem. Vancouver to Halifax, Miami to Victoria and all big places in between.

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #672866 is a reply to message #672834 ]
Wed, 22 June 2016 07:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Steve is currently offline Steve
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NetBOG wrote on Tue, 21 June 2016 15:06

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 21 June 2016 12:57

feepa wrote on Tue, 21 June 2016 12:46

How is it going to be insane?

How do the 80,000 to 100,000 people that go downtown to work/school make it there? 18,000 isn't that much, and many will just go from the office, to somewhere to eat, then to the arena, many others will take LRT...

I dont think traffic is going to be insane, at least it won't be anymore than the current rush hours, and most games start a few hours after the majority of the rush hour is over.

Well, 18,000+ people converging for the same time on 9.5 acres will be insane, but just in the area immediately around Rogers Place. It's not really that comparable 80,000 converging on the whole of downtown sometime between the hours of 7 and 9 am.

I do agree that downtown has a large number of escape route and traffic won't be that bad (except along the 109st corridor, but that has everything to do with city mismanagement and will continue to be awful at all times of day irrespective of the Oilers).


People that are looking to go South and East should have a few options to get out of downtown but going South and West, West, or North are going to have a fight.

The Oliver Community League is fully committed to crippling traffic on Jasper ave and 104th ave west of downtown. Couple that with the train going West which will ruin traffic on Stony Plain Road as badly as it has on 111th St and going west on anything south of 107th ave will be a no go.

The High Level Bridge is a nightmare at the best of times, trying to go south and get anywhere west of 99th street will be impossible.

All of the traffic trying to get out of town north (most of the people coming from out of town) will converge on 99th because its the only realistic way to get to the Yellowed. That'll be tough too.

And expecting the LRT to absorb some of the load is just stupid. You can get to the games now on LRT and can get to the games at the new place on LRT. Why would anything change?


Count your blessings. You just listed multiple ways to leave the new arena. It sure beats 1 (technically 2 for Ottawa, but 95% of people live in one direction).

Let's face it, there is no such thing as a seamless exit from a sporting event (unless you leave before the game ends). Just think of it as part of the experience. Some of best memories are talking about the game with my dad while sitting in our frozen car waiting for traffic to clear.

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #672869 is a reply to message #672796 ]
Wed, 22 June 2016 09:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
feepa is currently offline feepa
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CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 21 June 2016 12:57


Well, 18,000+ people converging for the same time on 9.5 acres will be insane, but just in the area immediately around Rogers Place.

How is it different than Rexall place currently? It's different in many ways actually - Rexall isn't very well connected - its only served by 1 LRT line, and mostly one parking lot with not a lot of egress/ingress. Rogers Place has a fabric of roads connecting it, plus many more bus routes serving the immediate area, including ETS, Strathcona Transit, St. Albert Transit. There is much more parking choices, not everyone will be leaving from the same parking lot.


Quote:


It's not really that comparable 80,000 converging on the whole of downtown sometime between the hours of 7 and 9 am.

Sure it is. How is it not? Many people won't be converging - they will already be downtown, and just go directly from the work to the game, or work, food, game, and afterwards, many people will linger around, or disperse from parking lots, transit stations spread out, not just a single spot.
Quote:



I do agree that downtown has a large number of escape route and traffic won't be that bad (except along the 109st corridor, but that has everything to do with city mismanagement and will continue to be awful at all times of day irrespective of the Oilers).


city mismanagement? I'm not sure I follow. 109 street is a busy cooridor. We're not Camrose, or Vegreville. It's a big city, with big city traffic. I don't follow your logic, if there was actually any being used here.

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #672885 is a reply to message #672869 ]
Wed, 22 June 2016 11:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently online CrusaderPi
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feepa wrote on Wed, 22 June 2016 09:23

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 21 June 2016 12:57


Well, 18,000+ people converging for the same time on 9.5 acres will be insane, but just in the area immediately around Rogers Place.

How is it different than Rexall place currently? It's different in many ways actually - Rexall isn't very well connected - its only served by 1 LRT line, and mostly one parking lot with not a lot of egress/ingress. Rogers Place has a fabric of roads connecting it, plus many more bus routes serving the immediate area, including ETS, Strathcona Transit, St. Albert Transit. There is much more parking choices, not everyone will be leaving from the same parking lot.


Quote:


It's not really that comparable 80,000 converging on the whole of downtown sometime between the hours of 7 and 9 am.

Sure it is. How is it not? Many people won't be converging - they will already be downtown, and just go directly from the work to the game, or work, food, game, and afterwards, many people will linger around, or disperse from parking lots, transit stations spread out, not just a single spot.
Quote:



I do agree that downtown has a large number of escape route and traffic won't be that bad (except along the 109st corridor, but that has everything to do with city mismanagement and will continue to be awful at all times of day irrespective of the Oilers).


city mismanagement? I'm not sure I follow. 109 street is a busy cooridor. We're not Camrose, or Vegreville. It's a big city, with big city traffic. I don't follow your logic, if there was actually any being used here.

For the record, I think we're on the same side of the Rogers Place issue. I believe we both are of the opinion traffic going to Rogers Place will be a non-issue. However, I like arguing especially about traffic on the internet so let's go point by point.

The convergence of people on Rogers Place will only differ from Rexall in that there are more roads going to more places from Ice District, but the Metro Line is essentially useless as a people mover. Smart drivers will be winners in the new move. Drivers without a plan and LRT users will end up losers. I suspect many will stop taking the train to games as the season grinds on.

I don't know the populations of many downtown blocks, but I doubt any single square block has a daytime density that matches game night at Rogers Place. I still stand by my assertion that a larger population spread over a larger geographical footprint over a longer period of time has only limited comparisons to a hockey crowd who wants to arrive at the exact same place (the Oilers have stated a majority of people will enter through one entrance) for puck drop. However, I don't see this as being any worse than every other arena hosting any other major event.

I would argue that claiming the city isn't mismanaging a major piece of infrastructure shows a lack of logic being used. I agree 109 street and Jasper are major corridors with big city traffic, that's why keeping traffic moving should be the priority. SB 109, for example, backs up from Saskatchewan Drive past the Ledge and Jasper Ave every rush hour. I'm 100% sure this could be mitigated if it was a priority, but it's not. So the people suffer and a major piece of infrastructure goes to waste as an effective mover of people and products.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #672901 is a reply to message #672885 ]
Wed, 22 June 2016 11:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
feepa is currently offline feepa
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I think most people won't even use the metro line to go to the arena, its within short walking distance of Churchill, Central and Bay station.

Also, many people will be coming earlier and staying later in the ice district, as there is actual places to grab a drink and eat, whereas with Rexall, you come for the game right before the event, and get the hell out ASAP, because who wants to hang out near Rexall or 118 avenue?

Jasper Avenue - the lights during the non rush hour are set to prevent people from speeding down the road. During rush hour, lights are setup so the most amount of traffic can flow in the direction of the rush... you get a bit screwed going counter to the rush.

109 street - not sure what can be done to fix this road, its over capacity...

People should just take transit to get downtown - that's the real solution. Pandering to the SOV is not the way to solve traffic issues in a big city. Getting people out of their single occupied vehicle and on to transit is the way out of the traffic mess...

[Updated on: Wed, 22 June 2016 11:45]

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #672903 is a reply to message #672901 ]
Wed, 22 June 2016 11:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently online CrusaderPi
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feepa wrote on Wed, 22 June 2016 11:42

I think most people won't even use the metro line to go to the arena, its within short walking distance of Churchill, Central and Bay station.

Also, many people will be coming earlier and staying later in the ice district, as there is actual places to grab a drink and eat, whereas with Rexall, you come for the game right before the event, and get the hell out ASAP, because who wants to hang out near Rexall or 118 avenue?

Agreed. Have the Oilers made any predictions on the number of people they expect to stay downtown between work and hockey time?

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #672801 is a reply to message #672702 ]
Tue, 21 June 2016 13:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
K.McC#24 is currently offline K.McC#24
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Adam wrote on Mon, 20 June 2016 13:07

Magnum wrote on Mon, 20 June 2016 12:13

OilPeg wrote on Mon, 20 June 2016 12:11

Adam wrote on Mon, 20 June 2016 12:13

CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 20 June 2016 10:04

There is a metric ton of downtown parking within walking distance of the arena. I'm sure 800 extra spaces at 20 bucks a space times exactly 45 games per year (41 regular season, 4 pre-season, 0 playoffs) wouldn't hurt the bottom line though.


Agreed. Parking downtown is not in short supply, and people can even walk inside the bulk of the way, even if they're parking at the Citadel or under the Telus building (not recommended, the Telus parking lot is ridiculously expensive).

I agree with the councillor too - open lots are eye sores, and 10 years is a very long time. It's a cash cow for the guy owning it. He can sell parking during the day and at night for events, and his maintenance for a gravel lot is incredibly small.

I hope they stick to their guns on this.


Winnipeg's arena is downtown and there was no additional parking lots built of the size they're talking about here. Even after the return of the Jets. There is tons of places to park downtown Winnipeg, I'm sure Edmonton will be fine too.


Seeing as parking in downtown Edmonton on a Friday night is already a nightmare, I tend to disagree.



Where are you trying to park?

There's three lots off the Mall, there's the cavernous Library parkade. There's still lots of ground level lots. There's multiple lots along 102nd close to Jasper. Most of the buildings (Telus, Commerce, Scotia, Bell Tower) all have underground lots. The Chateau Lacombe parking lot is quite big. There's a couple of lots by the Shaw.

There are way more people working downtown than going to Oilers games, so I don't think there should be a big problem with parking. You may have to walk a ways, but that's already true with Northlands, and with the pedways, you can stay inside most of the way.



I see the new pregame ritual if driving as one that's largely occupied by a tour of all these parking lots to check availability.


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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #673097 is a reply to message #672801 ]
Thu, 23 June 2016 22:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bigfan is currently offline Bigfan
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The Ice District developers are probably seeking the additional 800 gravel surface parking stalls for daytime commuter parking demand as much as for arena event demand. With good pricing the 200 8-hour workdays of demand would generate more revenue than 50 NHL and 50 WHL and maybe another 30 evening events.

The MacEwan LRT station right at the arena looks under designed: small walkway across the tracks provides less capacity than at the Coliseum station and if the current 15-minute headway 'uncertified' operation is still in place in October (very likely) then there could be big crowding problems on the DUMB DESIGN single platform after events. Maybe the developers were thinking that severe crowding will help get people to go south across the bridge over 104 St into the entertainment places rather than leave. But some sort of incident where the crowding pushes people off the platform and onto the tracks will not be good. Expect plenty of ETS staff onsite providing crowd control from day one - because of unnecessary poor design.

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #676103 is a reply to message #672689 ]
Wed, 17 August 2016 11:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Boniman is currently offline Boniman
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Adam wrote on Mon, 20 June 2016 11:13

CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 20 June 2016 10:04

There is a metric ton of downtown parking within walking distance of the arena. I'm sure 800 extra spaces at 20 bucks a space times exactly 45 games per year (41 regular season, 4 pre-season, 0 playoffs) wouldn't hurt the bottom line though.


Agreed. Parking downtown is not in short supply, and people can even walk inside the bulk of the way, even if they're parking at the Citadel or under the Telus building (not recommended, the Telus parking lot is ridiculously expensive).

I agree with the councillor too - open lots are eye sores, and 10 years is a very long time. It's a cash cow for the guy owning it. He can sell parking during the day and at night for events, and his maintenance for a gravel lot is incredibly small.

I hope they stick to their guns on this.


Just a heads up, weekends and holidays the Telus lot is 4 dollars for the day....weekdays don't park here


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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #676111 is a reply to message #676103 ]
Wed, 17 August 2016 14:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NetBOG is currently offline NetBOG
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[quote title=Boniman wrote on Wed, 17 August 2016 11:51]
Adam wrote on Mon, 20 June 2016 11:13



Just a heads up, weekends and holidays the Telus lot is 4 dollars for the day....weekdays don't park here


Every lot will have "Event" pricing. Not necessarily for this but any game, concert, etc will be $10+. City announced it will be $3.50/hr at meters, library will be $10, citadel will be $16.

And expect those numbers to go up pretty quickly as well.

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #676126 is a reply to message #676111 ]
Thu, 18 August 2016 09:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rocksteady is currently offline Rocksteady
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NetBOG wrote on Wed, 17 August 2016 14:19

Adam wrote on Mon, 20 June 2016 11:13



Just a heads up, weekends and holidays the Telus lot is 4 dollars for the day....weekdays don't park here


Every lot will have "Event" pricing. Not necessarily for this but any game, concert, etc will be $10+. City announced it will be $3.50/hr at meters, library will be $10, citadel will be $16.

And expect those numbers to go up pretty quickly as well.


This isn't unexpected. In places like Vancouver and LA expect to pay on event nights upwards to $40 to park near the arena, and the absolute cheapest is $25.

LRT it is then.

The very definition of insanity is doing the exact same thing expecting different results.

Generally Disappointed.

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #676136 is a reply to message #676126 ]
Thu, 18 August 2016 12:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne is currently offline PlusOne
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Rocksteady wrote on Thu, 18 August 2016 09:30

NetBOG wrote on Wed, 17 August 2016 14:19

Adam wrote on Mon, 20 June 2016 11:13



Just a heads up, weekends and holidays the Telus lot is 4 dollars for the day....weekdays don't park here


Every lot will have "Event" pricing. Not necessarily for this but any game, concert, etc will be $10+. City announced it will be $3.50/hr at meters, library will be $10, citadel will be $16.

And expect those numbers to go up pretty quickly as well.


This isn't unexpected. In places like Vancouver and LA expect to pay on event nights upwards to $40 to park near the arena, and the absolute cheapest is $25.

LRT it is then.



I went to a game in Phoenix against the Habs in 1998 or so. We got 4 tickets, upper level right at center ice, 4 hot dogs, 4 beers, a program, team poster and an autographed puck for $100.00.

Parking was $30...

Survivor LX(I) and 67 Champ(i)on


CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

und(i)sputed O.L.F.N Heavybra(i)n Champ(i)on of the Woooooooooooooooooorld. Plus. One.

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #674862 is a reply to message #625456 ]
Thu, 07 July 2016 13:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
feepa is currently offline feepa
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Wake me up, when september ends:

http://i.imgur.com/oW0Rzcj.png?1

first sheet of ice is down.

As a tier 2 or 3 fan, I hope I'll be able to score some tickets this year...

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #674864 is a reply to message #674862 ]
Thu, 07 July 2016 15:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rocksteady is currently offline Rocksteady
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OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

I like it. drink

The very definition of insanity is doing the exact same thing expecting different results.

Generally Disappointed.

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #675677 is a reply to message #674864 ]
Tue, 02 August 2016 20:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gator21 is currently offline Gator21
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Almost there...

http://www.rogersplace.com/welcome-to-our-house/

Scroll down for video

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #675714 is a reply to message #675677 ]
Wed, 03 August 2016 12:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ragnarok73 is currently offline Ragnarok73
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Gator21 wrote on Tue, 02 August 2016 20:07

Almost there...

http://www.rogersplace.com/welcome-to-our-house/

Scroll down for video

Obviously, things are still being put into place, but da-yaam, it's looking good! Can't wait to watch my first game in the new rink...

"There's no greater springboard to development than failure." - Craig MacTavish, April 13/15.

5-14-6-1

"Sabres think the suck is their ally? They merely adopted the suck. The Oilers were born in it...molded by it."

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #675721 is a reply to message #625456 ]
Wed, 03 August 2016 13:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner is currently offline mightyreasoner
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Just a footnote in a larger press release yesterday regarding the moving of the Gretzky Statue... but apparently there is going to be an Oilers Hall of Fame room. This was something I really wanted in the new arena, but I hadn't hear anything about it until yesterday.

I've seen a few teams with this (Green Bay Packers, Detroit Red Wings, others I'm sure), and it's a nice way to present and celebrate the team's history. Further, it actually gives them a way to celebrate and honour the great Oilers without retiring their jerseys (Weight, Lowe, Smyth, Ranford, etc.).

I'm excited for it.

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #675908 is a reply to message #675721 ]
Tue, 09 August 2016 18:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
halfafrog is currently offline halfafrog
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Hey guys, I'm 1500 miles south. Will one be able to walk from the former Eaton Centre... I think its now part of Edmonton city centre to the arena district buildings? If you can walk via pedways etc indoors I can imagine a lot of people won't have to deal with parking that work in those towers. Maybe Scotia and Commerce Place, Maulife too? And the old IPL? (I realize I'm showing my age). IPL is now Enbridge. Maybe thats too far away.

I havent been home this year but I will make a specific point of maybe staying downtown, maybe at the Westin to enjoy this if one can walk everywhere without having to deal with the elements too much.



So this is what hope feels like?

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #675911 is a reply to message #675908 ]
Tue, 09 August 2016 20:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
welcometotheOC is currently offline welcometotheOC
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Scottsdale has made you soft! (nice place though) icon_biggrin

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #675917 is a reply to message #675911 ]
Wed, 10 August 2016 02:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GabbyDugan is currently offline GabbyDugan
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....Octane is no more for the new building....

http://oilers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=890818

quote..."Oilers Entertainment Group confirms the discontinuation of the Oilers Octane. The organization is looking for a new direction related to the fan experience, both in-game and in the community, as we head to Rogers Place for our inaugural season. Details will be announced in the coming weeks. We extend a sincere thank you to all members of Oilers Octane past and present, in particular Dr. Mailie Harris, for their contribution to the organization. ".....unquote


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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #676088 is a reply to message #675917 ]
Mon, 15 August 2016 14:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GabbyDugan is currently offline GabbyDugan
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http://www.inews880.com/2016/08/15/more-info-on-rogers-place -open-house/

The Open House for Rogers Place will take place on Saturday, September 10. That’s before any of the concerts or games happen at the new arena.

quote...."Because of the crowd expected, they are staggering entry by using free tickets that will have specific entry times on them.

The self-guided tours will run from 8 AM to 3 PM, and take between 60 and 90 minutes to complete.

More information on how to get your tickets will be announced on August 29th at edmonton.ca/rogersplace".....unquote


...getting closer....


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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #676128 is a reply to message #625456 ]
Thu, 18 August 2016 10:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner is currently offline mightyreasoner
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It's walking distance from Bay/Enterprise Square (3 blocks) or Churchill Square (5 blocks). People can use the pedways from either location. They can transfer at Churchill Square to the Metro Line and literally have a stop outside the arena doors.
I think taking the LRT should actually be better and more efficient than it was with Rexall where 80% of people were waiting for a southbound train.

Street parking will be $3.50 per hour, maximum of 5 hours... so if people can find it, that's still cheaper than paying at Northlands. I'm sure some of the private lots will be more. I'm not sure if there will be an increase in the Impark and Diamond parking lots (right now their evening rate after 6 is like a $4 flatrate I believe); I would imagine it might increase and be about $15 for events as well.

I think there will be parking available, but just like Northlands and Rexall, you'll have to pay. But I think the LRT should be more efficient, park and ride should be an option, and hopefully many people will take advantage of this.

Now if only the City of Edmonton would create some parking garages at Century Park and Clareview and Belvedere to encourage Park and Ride, that would be awesome. I have no idea why they don't do this, and why they think it's a good idea to start charging for these spots too. Ideally, you want as many people taking the train as possible, and for that to happen you need to make that a more attractive option than driving (hopefully by making the train better rather than making driving worse).

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #676129 is a reply to message #676128 ]
Thu, 18 August 2016 10:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently online CrusaderPi
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mightyreasoner wrote on Thu, 18 August 2016 10:04



Now if only the City of Edmonton would create some parking garages at Century Park and Clareview and Belvedere to encourage Park and Ride, that would be awesome. I have no idea why they don't do this, and why they think it's a good idea to start charging for these spots too. Ideally, you want as many people taking the train as possible, and for that to happen you need to make that a more attractive option than driving (hopefully by making the train better rather than making driving worse).

Ha! You think it's a good idea to build parking at the terminus for the city's light rail system? Good luck. How exactly would that fit in with the city's goal of making driving so difficult its not even worth the effort? Take the bus, pleb. Even considering the possibility will cause two brand new stop lights (for safety) to be put up on your drive to work.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #676137 is a reply to message #676129 ]
Thu, 18 August 2016 12:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NetBOG is currently offline NetBOG
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CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 18 August 2016 10:17

mightyreasoner wrote on Thu, 18 August 2016 10:04



Now if only the City of Edmonton would create some parking garages at Century Park and Clareview and Belvedere to encourage Park and Ride, that would be awesome. I have no idea why they don't do this, and why they think it's a good idea to start charging for these spots too. Ideally, you want as many people taking the train as possible, and for that to happen you need to make that a more attractive option than driving (hopefully by making the train better rather than making driving worse).

Ha! You think it's a good idea to build parking at the terminus for the city's light rail system? Good luck. How exactly would that fit in with the city's goal of making driving so difficult its not even worth the effort? Take the bus, pleb. Even considering the possibility will cause two brand new stop lights (for safety) to be put up on your drive to work.


The parking price will go up quickly because the city is, once again, grossly overestimating how much their social engineering will actually work. Upwards of 1/3 of people attend from outside of Edmonton, and a lot of people won't take transit because of security (real and imagined) issues.

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #676138 is a reply to message #676137 ]
Thu, 18 August 2016 12:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently online CrusaderPi
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NetBOG wrote on Thu, 18 August 2016 12:43

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 18 August 2016 10:17

mightyreasoner wrote on Thu, 18 August 2016 10:04



Now if only the City of Edmonton would create some parking garages at Century Park and Clareview and Belvedere to encourage Park and Ride, that would be awesome. I have no idea why they don't do this, and why they think it's a good idea to start charging for these spots too. Ideally, you want as many people taking the train as possible, and for that to happen you need to make that a more attractive option than driving (hopefully by making the train better rather than making driving worse).

Ha! You think it's a good idea to build parking at the terminus for the city's light rail system? Good luck. How exactly would that fit in with the city's goal of making driving so difficult its not even worth the effort? Take the bus, pleb. Even considering the possibility will cause two brand new stop lights (for safety) to be put up on your drive to work.


The parking price will go up quickly because the city is, once again, grossly overestimating how much their social engineering will actually work. Upwards of 1/3 of people attend from outside of Edmonton, and a lot of people won't take transit because of security (real and imagined) issues.

Don't worry those out of towners will learn to take the bike lanes on 109 street to games. In winter.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #676150 is a reply to message #676138 ]
Thu, 18 August 2016 22:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
WhoreableGuy is currently offline WhoreableGuy
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https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14022101_1125516217533132_3987363923004307442_n.jpg?oh=1ecc8cea663870ccf5c1e007c38a7329&oe=585D1FCE

"Bah Gawd! Would somebody stop the damn draft!"

- Jim Ross calling the NHL Draft Lotto 2015 as the Oilers win

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #676408 is a reply to message #676137 ]
Wed, 31 August 2016 01:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gator21 is currently offline Gator21
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NetBOG wrote on Thu, 18 August 2016 12:43

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 18 August 2016 10:17

mightyreasoner wrote on Thu, 18 August 2016 10:04



Now if only the City of Edmonton would create some parking garages at Century Park and Clareview and Belvedere to encourage Park and Ride, that would be awesome. I have no idea why they don't do this, and why they think it's a good idea to start charging for these spots too. Ideally, you want as many people taking the train as possible, and for that to happen you need to make that a more attractive option than driving (hopefully by making the train better rather than making driving worse).

Ha! You think it's a good idea to build parking at the terminus for the city's light rail system? Good luck. How exactly would that fit in with the city's goal of making driving so difficult its not even worth the effort? Take the bus, pleb. Even considering the possibility will cause two brand new stop lights (for safety) to be put up on your drive to work.


The parking price will go up quickly because the city is, once again, grossly overestimating how much their social engineering will actually work. Upwards of 1/3 of people attend from outside of Edmonton, and a lot of people won't take transit because of security (real and imagined) issues.


http://globalnews.ca/news/2910981/big-jump-in-paid-park-and- ride-stalls-at-edmonton-lrt-stations-starts-sept-1/?sf346756 15=1

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #676409 is a reply to message #676408 ]
Wed, 31 August 2016 08:17 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
CrusaderPi is currently online CrusaderPi
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Gator21 wrote on Wed, 31 August 2016 01:09

NetBOG wrote on Thu, 18 August 2016 12:43

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 18 August 2016 10:17

mightyreasoner wrote on Thu, 18 August 2016 10:04



Now if only the City of Edmonton would create some parking garages at Century Park and Clareview and Belvedere to encourage Park and Ride, that would be awesome. I have no idea why they don't do this, and why they think it's a good idea to start charging for these spots too. Ideally, you want as many people taking the train as possible, and for that to happen you need to make that a more attractive option than driving (hopefully by making the train better rather than making driving worse).

Ha! You think it's a good idea to build parking at the terminus for the city's light rail system? Good luck. How exactly would that fit in with the city's goal of making driving so difficult its not even worth the effort? Take the bus, pleb. Even considering the possibility will cause two brand new stop lights (for safety) to be put up on your drive to work.


The parking price will go up quickly because the city is, once again, grossly overestimating how much their social engineering will actually work. Upwards of 1/3 of people attend from outside of Edmonton, and a lot of people won't take transit because of security (real and imagined) issues.


http://globalnews.ca/news/2910981/big-jump-in-paid-park-and- ride-stalls-at-edmonton-lrt-stations-starts-sept-1/?sf346756 15=1

I love it. I love it love it love it. This is so brilliant it's almost impossible to believe that Edmonton did it by accident. They've created an artificial supply and demand problem for space in a sprawled out "C" level prairie city. The city administration is finally removing all doubt and confirming that they do not care in the slightest about you or your commute to work. You know, work, that place where a large percentage of voters absolutely need to travel to 200 days a year? That place? Well, the city doesn't care if you get there. The city doesn't care if you drive, they don't care if you cycle, they don't care if you walk, they don't care if you take transit. Hell, the don't care if you work. You, my fellow citizen, are nothing more than a little mobile piggy bank for them to extract money from.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #676411 is a reply to message #676409 ]
Wed, 31 August 2016 08:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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Location: Edmonton
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CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 31 August 2016 08:17

Gator21 wrote on Wed, 31 August 2016 01:09

NetBOG wrote on Thu, 18 August 2016 12:43

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 18 August 2016 10:17

mightyreasoner wrote on Thu, 18 August 2016 10:04



Now if only the City of Edmonton would create some parking garages at Century Park and Clareview and Belvedere to encourage Park and Ride, that would be awesome. I have no idea why they don't do this, and why they think it's a good idea to start charging for these spots too. Ideally, you want as many people taking the train as possible, and for that to happen you need to make that a more attractive option than driving (hopefully by making the train better rather than making driving worse).

Ha! You think it's a good idea to build parking at the terminus for the city's light rail system? Good luck. How exactly would that fit in with the city's goal of making driving so difficult its not even worth the effort? Take the bus, pleb. Even considering the possibility will cause two brand new stop lights (for safety) to be put up on your drive to work.


The parking price will go up quickly because the city is, once again, grossly overestimating how much their social engineering will actually work. Upwards of 1/3 of people attend from outside of Edmonton, and a lot of people won't take transit because of security (real and imagined) issues.


http://globalnews.ca/news/2910981/big-jump-in-paid-park-and- ride-stalls-at-edmonton-lrt-stations-starts-sept-1/?sf346756 15=1

I love it. I love it love it love it. This is so brilliant it's almost impossible to believe that Edmonton did it by accident. They've created an artificial supply and demand problem for space in a sprawled out "C" level prairie city. The city administration is finally removing all doubt and confirming that they do not care in the slightest about you or your commute to work. You know, work, that place where a large percentage of voters absolutely need to travel to 200 days a year? That place? Well, the city doesn't care if you get there. The city doesn't care if you drive, they don't care if you cycle, they don't care if you walk, they don't care if you take transit. Hell, the don't care if you work. You, my fellow citizen, are nothing more than a little mobile piggy bank for them to extract money from.


No worries. Just need to make sure you're up around 4:30am so you can get one of the remaining free parking spots (at Century Park in my case if I wanted to attempt it, which I never would).



"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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