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Oilers » Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673911 is a reply to message #673895 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:12

mightyreasoner
Messages: 520
Registered: October 2005
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

ryanc182 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:02

If we were all waiting for the perfect trade to come along where we win hands down, it may never have come. And staying the course as we have for a decade has got us no where. What do you suggest anyone is to do? Larsson is 23, RH and signed for a long time for a very manageable cap hit.

This seems to be a common refrain I keep hearing.

There's a big difference between waiting to 'win' a trade and waiting to get fair value in a trade. There are trades made that are mutually beneficial. When you are trading a franchise player, one of the top scoring wingers in the league, a guy who drive the play on his line... that should be the minimum benchmark, IMO.

Again, nothing against Larsson... but he's worth closer to Eberle or RNH.

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673915 is a reply to message #673911 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:16

vsove
Messages: 66
Registered: May 2006
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:12

ryanc182 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:02

If we were all waiting for the perfect trade to come along where we win hands down, it may never have come. And staying the course as we have for a decade has got us no where. What do you suggest anyone is to do? Larsson is 23, RH and signed for a long time for a very manageable cap hit.

This seems to be a common refrain I keep hearing.

There's a big difference between waiting to 'win' a trade and waiting to get fair value in a trade. There are trades made that are mutually beneficial. When you are trading a franchise player, one of the top scoring wingers in the league, a guy who drive the play on his line... that should be the minimum benchmark, IMO.

Again, nothing against Larsson... but he's worth closer to Eberle or RNH.

For me, part of it is that Hall was the only bright spot for a long time. He was the only player that constantly put up large numbers of points and who always looked like he gave a crap. I wanted to see us win a cup with Taylor Hall, to make us feel like maybe the decade of futility was worth -something-.

That being said - he was also often injured and played a style that suggested his injury-ridden days were by no means behind him.

I don't know. Hall has never been my favourite Oiler, but he was our best player not named McDavid and I always hoped we'd see a better return for him. It's time to look forward, though. And for the record, I -still- think the Petry deal was worse.

No Mo' Lowe | Fire McLellan | Fire everyone.

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673930 is a reply to message #673895 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:29

TheJesman
Messages: 8
Registered: February 2013
Location: Detroit

No Cups

ryanc182 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:02

Taylor Hall is a great player no doubt. Unless Larsson completely lays an egg, this helps us fill a void.

If we were all waiting for the perfect trade to come along where we win hands down, it may never have come. And staying the course as we have for a decade has got us no where. What do you suggest anyone is to do? Larsson is 23, RH and signed for a long time for a very manageable cap hit.

To play devils advocate, to me, Hall is not one of the top LW in the game. His exclusion from the Olympics and the World Cup of Hockey helps that argument. In the last two years, Hall has seen a decline. He only played 53 games 2 years ago with 38 points. Last year a full 82 and only 65 points. He is not irreplaceable.

That being said, I hope he scores 80+ this year, but I don't think he'll do it with the Devils.

Thank you for everything Taylor. Enjoy the Eastern Conference and no longer being run through the boards nightly!

Saying Hall has seen a decline is kind of being ignorant to the fact that the team went through a coaching change between this and last year. He is coming off a season where he was injured for most of it. Even with that being said it isn't like the league is very high scoring. There were 2 guys who finished ahead of Hall in points that were younger and 4 that were his age. He is still young in comparison to the top scorers of the league but is still finishing right outside the top 20. He is only going to get better and that is why this was a really bad trade.

Still you are right the trade fills a need...but don't sell Hall short just to make the trade look better. He is one of the top LWs in the league just because he wasn't picked by Canada may have a lot more to do with that he played on a losing team.

Adam Larsson 23
RNHopkins 23
Nail Yakupov 22
Oscar Klefbom 22
Darnell Nurse 21
Leon Draisaitl 20
Connor McDavid 19
Jesse Puljujarvi 18

The future looks bright...

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674050 is a reply to message #673930 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 20:00

ryanc182
Messages: 13
Registered: July 2008
Location: Red Deer

No Cups

I'm not trying to take away from Halls skill set. I'm just saying plain and simple with no "homer" views, his last two seasons have been lacklustre in regards to other years.. You can always hope that form returns, but what if it doesn't? What if he continuously puts up 60 and is often injured? What's your return then?

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674405 is a reply to message #673895 ]	Fri, 01 July 2016 21:00

K.McC#24
Messages: 2834
Registered: March 2004
Location: ALBERTA

2 Cups

ryanc182 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:02

Taylor Hall is a great player no doubt. Unless Larsson completely lays an egg, this helps us fill a void.

If we were all waiting for the perfect trade to come along where we win hands down, it may never have come. And staying the course as we have for a decade has got us no where. What do you suggest anyone is to do? Larsson is 23, RH and signed for a long time for a very manageable cap hit.

To play devils advocate, to me, Hall is not one of the top LW in the game. His exclusion from the Olympics and the World Cup of Hockey helps that argument. In the last two years, Hall has seen a decline. He only played 53 games 2 years ago with 38 points. Last year a full 82 and only 65 points. He is not irreplaceable.

That being said, I hope he scores 80+ this year, but I don't think he'll do it with the Devils.

Thank you for everything Taylor. Enjoy the Eastern Conference and no longer being run through the boards nightly!

The thing is, if Taylor Hall goes out the door, a guy has to be coming back who has NO CHANCE of laying an egg. Has to be THE guy they need on the back end, even if you have to add a piece or two. Now they are still looking for that guy, and their best tradeable asset is gone. It's not Larsson's fault he was traded for Hall, but this has all the earmarks of a terrible trade. Larsson will be a useful player, and an upgrade over most of the blueline, but Chia paid a terrible price.

Hall is going to continue to have an excellent career. Too bad it's not going to be here.

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674450 is a reply to message #674405 ]	Sat, 02 July 2016 13:33

TJ39
Messages: 9
Registered: May 2002
Location: British Columbia

No Cups

Wait til Larsson gets booed cause of Hall. It's not his fault obviously. Who trades Hall ? Only the Oil. McDavid & Hall should have been the two untouchables. Pitt won the cup with speed.

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674451 is a reply to message #674450 ]	Sat, 02 July 2016 13:34

nullterm
Messages: 1033
Registered: July 2007
Location: Port Moody, BC

1 Cup

TJ39 wrote on Sat, 02 July 2016 12:33

Wait til Larsson gets booed cause of Hall. It's not his fault obviously. Who trades Hall ? Only the Oil. McDavid & Hall should have been the two untouchables. Pitt won the cup with speed.

That's my fear. Oilers fans are traditionally harsh and unforgiving towards Oilers defencemen.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674454 is a reply to message #674451 ]	Sat, 02 July 2016 13:39

Skookum Jim
Messages: 4418
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

4 Cups

nullterm wrote on Sat, 02 July 2016 12:34

TJ39 wrote on Sat, 02 July 2016 12:33

Wait til Larsson gets booed cause of Hall. It's not his fault obviously. Who trades Hall ? Only the Oil. McDavid & Hall should have been the two untouchables. Pitt won the cup with speed.

That's my fear. Oilers fans are traditionally harsh and unforgiving towards Oilers defencemen.

This would be different, the past booing (still bush) was because of perceived lack of performance or effort. This booing would be directed at management, specifically Chiarelli, and especially if Larsson's sitting with 2 pts by Christmas time, and a +- of -20.
Chiarelli made the trade NOW, because he said they needed to win NOW, and Chiarelli should be judged and criticized accordingly. If they are out of the playoffs by Christmas time as usual, then his job should be on the line, he's put it there.

[Updated on: Sat, 02 July 2016 13:42]

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674456 is a reply to message #674454 ]	Sat, 02 July 2016 13:53

rjayd2
Messages: 20
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

Skookum Jim wrote on Sat, 02 July 2016 13:39

nullterm wrote on Sat, 02 July 2016 12:34

TJ39 wrote on Sat, 02 July 2016 12:33

Wait til Larsson gets booed cause of Hall. It's not his fault obviously. Who trades Hall ? Only the Oil. McDavid & Hall should have been the two untouchables. Pitt won the cup with speed.

That's my fear. Oilers fans are traditionally harsh and unforgiving towards Oilers defencemen.

This would be different, the past booing (still bush) was because of perceived lack of performance or effort. This booing would be directed at management, specifically Chiarelli, and especially if Larsson's sitting with 2 pts by Christmas time, and a +- of -20.
Chiarelli made the trade NOW, because he said they needed to win NOW, and Chiarelli should be judged and criticized accordingly. If they are out of the playoffs by Christmas time as usual, then his job should be on the line, he's put it there.

So express any ill-conceived displeasure towards Chiarelli/management directly where possible. Larsson should be cheered and supported being him performing well is key to us getting better as a team. Booing him directly is saying you don't want the team to get better... because Taylor Hall! Anyone ends up doing that is a total moron and should be fired from fandom.

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674457 is a reply to message #674456 ]	Sat, 02 July 2016 14:00

Kr55
Messages: 10770
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

rjayd2 wrote on Sat, 02 July 2016 13:53

Skookum Jim wrote on Sat, 02 July 2016 13:39

nullterm wrote on Sat, 02 July 2016 12:34

TJ39 wrote on Sat, 02 July 2016 12:33

Wait til Larsson gets booed cause of Hall. It's not his fault obviously. Who trades Hall ? Only the Oil. McDavid & Hall should have been the two untouchables. Pitt won the cup with speed.

That's my fear. Oilers fans are traditionally harsh and unforgiving towards Oilers defencemen.

This would be different, the past booing (still bush) was because of perceived lack of performance or effort. This booing would be directed at management, specifically Chiarelli, and especially if Larsson's sitting with 2 pts by Christmas time, and a +- of -20.
Chiarelli made the trade NOW, because he said they needed to win NOW, and Chiarelli should be judged and criticized accordingly. If they are out of the playoffs by Christmas time as usual, then his job should be on the line, he's put it there.

So express any ill-conceived displeasure towards Chiarelli/management directly where possible. Larsson should be cheered and supported being him performing well is key to us getting better as a team. Booing him directly is saying you don't want the team to get better... because Taylor Hall! Anyone ends up doing that is a total moron and should be fired from fandom.

I don't think Larsson will be the type to ever short change the fans on his effort. He will be working his tail off out there consistently.

I suppose he could get the Petry treatment though, where just because he's always out on the ice against the best players, he is in the picture when we get scored on by the best players. Therefore, because fans see him a lot out there when we get scored on by good players, it's all his fault if the Oilers are losing games. Because obviously it can't be the fault of the rest of the team getting to play against easier competition and doing nothing with that ice time, that is too abstract of a concept. The best way to avoid that reaction by fans it to actually win more than you lose. Fingers crossed we can do that next year.

[Updated on: Sat, 02 July 2016 14:03]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674461 is a reply to message #674457 ]	Sat, 02 July 2016 14:31

rjayd2
Messages: 20
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

Kr55 wrote on Sat, 02 July 2016 14:00

rjayd2 wrote on Sat, 02 July 2016 13:53

Skookum Jim wrote on Sat, 02 July 2016 13:39

nullterm wrote on Sat, 02 July 2016 12:34

TJ39 wrote on Sat, 02 July 2016 12:33

Wait til Larsson gets booed cause of Hall. It's not his fault obviously. Who trades Hall ? Only the Oil. McDavid & Hall should have been the two untouchables. Pitt won the cup with speed.

That's my fear. Oilers fans are traditionally harsh and unforgiving towards Oilers defencemen.

This would be different, the past booing (still bush) was because of perceived lack of performance or effort. This booing would be directed at management, specifically Chiarelli, and especially if Larsson's sitting with 2 pts by Christmas time, and a +- of -20.
Chiarelli made the trade NOW, because he said they needed to win NOW, and Chiarelli should be judged and criticized accordingly. If they are out of the playoffs by Christmas time as usual, then his job should be on the line, he's put it there.

So express any ill-conceived displeasure towards Chiarelli/management directly where possible. Larsson should be cheered and supported being him performing well is key to us getting better as a team. Booing him directly is saying you don't want the team to get better... because Taylor Hall! Anyone ends up doing that is a total moron and should be fired from fandom.

I don't think Larsson will be the type to ever short change the fans on his effort. He will be working his tail off out there consistently.

I suppose he could get the Petry treatment though, where just because he's always out on the ice against the best players, he is in the picture when we get scored on by the best players. Therefore, because fans see him a lot out there when we get scored on by good players, it's all his fault if the Oilers are losing games. Because obviously it can't be the fault of the rest of the team getting to play against easier competition and doing nothing with that ice time, that is too abstract of a concept. The best way to avoid that reaction by fans it to actually win more than you lose. Fingers crossed we can do that next year.

I'll admit looking back I was guilty of a bit of that. Still not a huge fan of the type of player he is (or maybe it's his emotionless, meek personality that always irked me and felt like we had too much of on the team at the time) but in hind sight how much better would we look right now with Petry slotted in as the 2nd pair RHD? Pretty much the player people are wanting us to sign in Demers.

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674566 is a reply to message #674461 ]	Sun, 03 July 2016 21:42

nullterm
Messages: 1033
Registered: July 2007
Location: Port Moody, BC

1 Cup

Greg Wyshynski Verified account
‏@wyshynski
Taylor Hall said Edmonton was "taken from him," when discussing chat with Chiarelli. #Oilers

Take that as you will.

I do feel bad for him, he stuck with the team, loyal when it came to contract. Now he's stuck in Jersey till 2020 without much around him.

But this is a business. And the team was not progressing. It was still perennial bottom three. It was built wrong (from the wings). It's painful correcting that. And that's what is happening, which hurts for Hall and us the fans.

It's just a messy situation where no one wins, but you hope things atleast turn around for everyone involved.

[Updated on: Sun, 03 July 2016 22:10]

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674455 is a reply to message #674450 ]	Sat, 02 July 2016 13:49

WhoreableGuy
Messages: 592
Registered: August 2006
Location: Calgary

No Cups

TJ39 wrote on Sat, 02 July 2016 13:33

Wait til Larsson gets booed cause of Hall. It's not his fault obviously. Who trades Hall ? Only the Oil. McDavid & Hall should have been the two untouchables. Pitt won the cup with speed.

This is my biggest fear with the loss of Hall. I see Draisaitl taking a step back without Hall and I don't trust RNH to make significant jump in his offensive totals. The Oilers might be a one line scoring team for the next couple of seasons until Drai can come into his own and Puljujarvi getting used to the NHL game.

"Bah Gawd! Would somebody stop the damn draft!"

- Jim Ross calling the NHL Draft Lotto 2015 as the Oilers win

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673892 is a reply to message #673873 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:01

mightyreasoner
Messages: 520
Registered: October 2005
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:49

So, now that we have Larsson and just have to deal with it. Just a look at how he was used last year and how he performed.

His deployment was extremely defensive, with Andy Greene.

31.8% offensive zone starts. He has 44.1% Corsi with Greene.

Away from Greene, he had 48.4% Corsi% with 31.8% offensive zone starts.

Greene without Larsson had 41.7% Corsi% with 22.7% offensive zone starts.

So, little bit encouraging, Larsson without Greene did better than Greene without Larsson. Not huge sample sizes though (~200 mins apart each vs 1200 mins together)

Larsson and Greene would play ~19 mins per game ES and ~3:20 per game SH. Neither got any PP time. The only year Larsson got any consistent PP time was his first season with the Devils. Seems his deployment was all over the place his first 3 years, but the last 2 he has been used purely as a shutdown D.

So, I guess we'll see if he has more in him than just starting in his own end all night long and if he can take advantage of playing with some fast and talented forwards for once.

I actually think there is room for growth with Larsson. I like the player fine.

It's the return. An absolute, inexcusable overpayment of a franchise player.

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Farewell, Hall.... [message #673902 is a reply to message #673755 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:05

K.McC#24
Messages: 2834
Registered: March 2004
Location: ALBERTA

2 Cups

This deal ain't on you, kid, anyone with eyes could see you were not the problem in Edmonton.

Have a stellar, winning career, wish it could be in Edmonton.

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Re: Farewell, Hall.... [message #673908 is a reply to message #673902 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:11

Leia
Messages: 410
Registered: May 2003
Location: England

No Cups

One thing that I picked up on and it may be nothing at all through the press conference, was that Chia constantly referred to Hall as a great player, never elite always great. Not sure if it means anything, and I may be clutching at straws, but perhaps Chia didn't rate him as highly as we did.

Take me home, country road
to the place where I belong
to Alberta, to see the Oilers
take me home, country road

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Re: Farewell, Hall.... [message #673913 is a reply to message #673908 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:13

Prince Albert 1
Messages: 33
Registered: February 2006
Location: Prince Albert,Sk

No Cups

Leia wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:11

One thing that I picked up on and it may be nothing at all through the press conference, was that Chia constantly referred to Hall as a great player, never elite always great. Not sure if it means anything, and I may be clutching at straws, but perhaps Chia didn't rate him as highly as we did.

Either way Chia just lost all credibility with myself and it sounds like the majority of the fan base.

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Re: Farewell, Hall.... [message #673916 is a reply to message #673913 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:17

Magnum
Messages: 839
Registered: June 2009
Location: Rogers' Arena > Banff

No Cups

Prince Albert 1 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:13

Leia wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:11

One thing that I picked up on and it may be nothing at all through the press conference, was that Chia constantly referred to Hall as a great player, never elite always great. Not sure if it means anything, and I may be clutching at straws, but perhaps Chia didn't rate him as highly as we did.

Either way Chia just lost all credibility with myself and it sounds like the majority of the fan base.

Maybe he's trying to trade as many high end picks from the 2010 draft? If Chia becomes the GM of Florida, Gudbranson is in trouble!

2015/2016 - This Kool-Aid tastes like McDavid flavoured Drain-O.
2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.
2017/2018 - I'm drinking this Kool-Aid, in hopes that it's Drain-O.
2018/2019 - Another round of Drain-O, good sir!

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Re: Farewell, Hall.... [message #673918 is a reply to message #673916 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:20

Kr55
Messages: 10770
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Magnum wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:17

Prince Albert 1 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:13

Leia wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:11

One thing that I picked up on and it may be nothing at all through the press conference, was that Chia constantly referred to Hall as a great player, never elite always great. Not sure if it means anything, and I may be clutching at straws, but perhaps Chia didn't rate him as highly as we did.

Either way Chia just lost all credibility with myself and it sounds like the majority of the fan base.

Maybe he's trying to trade as many high end picks from the 2010 draft? If Chia becomes the GM of Florida, Gudbranson is in trouble!

He would need to be the Canucks GM for that one now :)

2010 NHL Draft Top 6:

1. Taylor Hall, EDM: Traded to NJ 6/29/16
2. Tyler Seguin, BOS: Traded to DAL 7/4/13
3. Erik Gudbranson, FLA: Traded to VAN 5/25/16
4. Ryan Johansen, CBJ: Traded to NSH 1/6/16
5. Nino Niederreiter, NYI: Traded to MIN 6/30/13
6. Brett Connolly, TB: Traded to BOS 3/2/15

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Farewell, Hall.... [message #673920 is a reply to message #673916 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:22

OilPeg
Messages: 71
Registered: December 2010
Location: Winnipeg

No Cups

Magnum wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 16:17

Prince Albert 1 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:13

Leia wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:11

One thing that I picked up on and it may be nothing at all through the press conference, was that Chia constantly referred to Hall as a great player, never elite always great. Not sure if it means anything, and I may be clutching at straws, but perhaps Chia didn't rate him as highly as we did.

Either way Chia just lost all credibility with myself and it sounds like the majority of the fan base.

Maybe he's trying to trade as many high end picks from the 2010 draft? If Chia becomes the GM of Florida, Gudbranson is in trouble!

Gudbranson got traded to Vancouver a few weeks ago, he's already in trouble.

Skookum Jim wrote on Sat, 02 June 2012 00:29

But he (Belanger)'s as soft as room temp. margarine.

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 16 March 2021 18:49

Turris in the BOA will be like an ice cube in the Sahara.

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Re: Farewell, Hall.... [message #673921 is a reply to message #673920 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:23

vsove
Messages: 66
Registered: May 2006
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

OilPeg wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:22

Magnum wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 16:17

Prince Albert 1 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:13

Leia wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:11

One thing that I picked up on and it may be nothing at all through the press conference, was that Chia constantly referred to Hall as a great player, never elite always great. Not sure if it means anything, and I may be clutching at straws, but perhaps Chia didn't rate him as highly as we did.

Either way Chia just lost all credibility with myself and it sounds like the majority of the fan base.

Maybe he's trying to trade as many high end picks from the 2010 draft? If Chia becomes the GM of Florida, Gudbranson is in trouble!

Gudbranson got traded to Vancouver a few weeks ago, he's already in trouble.

I don't care if it's just a rumour, I will always believe in my heart of hearts that Lucic told Vancouver he didn't want to sign there because they had no prospects and no hope.

No Mo' Lowe | Fire McLellan | Fire everyone.

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Re: Farewell, Hall.... [message #673923 is a reply to message #673916 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:24

Lesterpolyester
Messages: 5
Registered: January 2006
Location: Saskatoon

No Cups

I think it makes perfect sense. Lets keep Hall, Nuge, Eb's and continue to suck for the next 10 years. Hall may have been good offensively but he was awful defensively and had a six year losing streak. Sometimes you have to change the culture.

If the trade would have been last year for Lucic & Larson for Hall nobody would have said we were fleeced. Effectively that's what this is and it also gives us a chance to grab the top RH defenseman in free agency.

Something had to give guys the team has SUCKED for 10 years yet every time we trade or talk about trading someone everyone seems up in arms. I don't care who's in the line up next year so long as they start winning!

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Re: Farewell, Hall.... [message #673935 is a reply to message #673923 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:45

K.McC#24
Messages: 2834
Registered: March 2004
Location: ALBERTA

2 Cups

Lesterpolyester wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:24

I think it makes perfect sense. Lets keep Hall, Nuge, Eb's and continue to suck for the next 10 years. Hall may have been good offensively but he was awful defensively and had a six year losing streak. Sometimes you have to change the culture.

If the trade would have been last year for Lucic & Larson for Hall nobody would have said we were fleeced. Effectively that's what this is and it also gives us a chance to grab the top RH defenseman in free agency.

Something had to give guys the team has SUCKED for 10 years yet every time we trade or talk about trading someone everyone seems up in arms. I don't care who's in the line up next year so long as they start winning!

So you're saying Hall's deal was a in part a salary dump? The sugar-coating ain't sticking.

You trade your best player (up until a few months ago) for a #1 D who can run a PP.....you add pieces if you need to. Turns out that even if Demers signs here, and they have Larsson (wrong Larsson, by the way, Chia), the Oilers are STILL needing a #1 D who can run a PP. This is another in a long list of magic beans deals, where a known excellent hockey player (with plenty of upside still) goes out for something you're HOPING will pan out. You're downgrading at LW with Lucic coming in, who has already reached his peak in terms of his career. You needed Lucic as a secondary option at LW, not the primary.....he will compliment his center, not carry the play.

The Oilers organization can spin & sell this any way they want to try, but this was a bad day for the Oilers and their fans. This was NOT the $6 million contract the Oilers needed to move, if this is being sold on any level in terms of salary and cap room.

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Re: Farewell, Hall.... [message #673947 is a reply to message #673935 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 16:04

mightyreasoner
Messages: 520
Registered: October 2005
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

K.McC#24 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:45

Lesterpolyester wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:24

I think it makes perfect sense. Lets keep Hall, Nuge, Eb's and continue to suck for the next 10 years. Hall may have been good offensively but he was awful defensively and had a six year losing streak. Sometimes you have to change the culture.

If the trade would have been last year for Lucic & Larson for Hall nobody would have said we were fleeced. Effectively that's what this is and it also gives us a chance to grab the top RH defenseman in free agency.

Something had to give guys the team has SUCKED for 10 years yet every time we trade or talk about trading someone everyone seems up in arms. I don't care who's in the line up next year so long as they start winning!

So you're saying Hall's deal was a in part a salary dump? The sugar-coating ain't sticking.

You trade your best player (up until a few months ago) for a #1 D who can run a PP.....you add pieces if you need to. Turns out that even if Demers signs here, and they have Larsson (wrong Larsson, by the way, Chia), the Oilers are STILL needing a #1 D who can run a PP. This is another in a long list of magic beans deals, where a known excellent hockey player (with plenty of upside still) goes out for something you're HOPING will pan out. You're downgrading at LW with Lucic coming in, who has already reached his peak in terms of his career. You needed Lucic as a secondary option at LW, not the primary.....he will compliment his center, not carry the play.

The Oilers organization can spin & sell this any way they want to try, but this was a bad day for the Oilers and their fans. This was NOT the $6 million contract the Oilers needed to move, if this is being sold on any level in terms of salary and cap room.

100% this. Larsson might be part of the solution, but not at the expense of Hall.

Chiarelli needed to hold strong and wait for RNH or Eberle to be the player triggering this deal. Also, why now? This completely could have happened after free agency.

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Re: Farewell, Hall.... [message #673950 is a reply to message #673947 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 16:09

Skookum Jim
Messages: 4418
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

4 Cups

mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:04

K.McC#24 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:45

Lesterpolyester wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:24

I think it makes perfect sense. Lets keep Hall, Nuge, Eb's and continue to suck for the next 10 years. Hall may have been good offensively but he was awful defensively and had a six year losing streak. Sometimes you have to change the culture.

If the trade would have been last year for Lucic & Larson for Hall nobody would have said we were fleeced. Effectively that's what this is and it also gives us a chance to grab the top RH defenseman in free agency.

Something had to give guys the team has SUCKED for 10 years yet every time we trade or talk about trading someone everyone seems up in arms. I don't care who's in the line up next year so long as they start winning!

So you're saying Hall's deal was a in part a salary dump? The sugar-coating ain't sticking.

You trade your best player (up until a few months ago) for a #1 D who can run a PP.....you add pieces if you need to. Turns out that even if Demers signs here, and they have Larsson (wrong Larsson, by the way, Chia), the Oilers are STILL needing a #1 D who can run a PP. This is another in a long list of magic beans deals, where a known excellent hockey player (with plenty of upside still) goes out for something you're HOPING will pan out. You're downgrading at LW with Lucic coming in, who has already reached his peak in terms of his career. You needed Lucic as a secondary option at LW, not the primary.....he will compliment his center, not carry the play.

The Oilers organization can spin & sell this any way they want to try, but this was a bad day for the Oilers and their fans. This was NOT the $6 million contract the Oilers needed to move, if this is being sold on any level in terms of salary and cap room.

100% this. Larsson might be part of the solution, but not at the expense of Hall.

Chiarelli needed to hold strong and wait for RNH or Eberle to be the player triggering this deal. Also, why now? This completely could have happened after free agency.

Absolutely. Oilers have been had. Steal of the year.
This is Chiarelli's Tyler Seguin move with an Oiler Logo on it.

And.. the dip shttt probably isn't done ... wait for the other shoe..

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Farewell, Hall.... [message #673952 is a reply to message #673950 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 16:10

Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 16:09

mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:04

K.McC#24 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:45

Lesterpolyester wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:24

I think it makes perfect sense. Lets keep Hall, Nuge, Eb's and continue to suck for the next 10 years. Hall may have been good offensively but he was awful defensively and had a six year losing streak. Sometimes you have to change the culture.

If the trade would have been last year for Lucic & Larson for Hall nobody would have said we were fleeced. Effectively that's what this is and it also gives us a chance to grab the top RH defenseman in free agency.

Something had to give guys the team has SUCKED for 10 years yet every time we trade or talk about trading someone everyone seems up in arms. I don't care who's in the line up next year so long as they start winning!

So you're saying Hall's deal was a in part a salary dump? The sugar-coating ain't sticking.

You trade your best player (up until a few months ago) for a #1 D who can run a PP.....you add pieces if you need to. Turns out that even if Demers signs here, and they have Larsson (wrong Larsson, by the way, Chia), the Oilers are STILL needing a #1 D who can run a PP. This is another in a long list of magic beans deals, where a known excellent hockey player (with plenty of upside still) goes out for something you're HOPING will pan out. You're downgrading at LW with Lucic coming in, who has already reached his peak in terms of his career. You needed Lucic as a secondary option at LW, not the primary.....he will compliment his center, not carry the play.

The Oilers organization can spin & sell this any way they want to try, but this was a bad day for the Oilers and their fans. This was NOT the $6 million contract the Oilers needed to move, if this is being sold on any level in terms of salary and cap room.

100% this. Larsson might be part of the solution, but not at the expense of Hall.

Chiarelli needed to hold strong and wait for RNH or Eberle to be the player triggering this deal. Also, why now? This completely could have happened after free agency.

Absolutely. Oilers have been had. Steal of the year.
This is Chiarelli's Tyler Seguin move with an Oiler Logo on it.

And.. the dip shttt probably isn't done ... wait for the other shoe..

Nuge+ for Shattenkirk with no contract?

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Farewell, Hall.... [message #673957 is a reply to message #673952 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 16:22

Skookum Jim
Messages: 4418
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

4 Cups

Adam wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:10

Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 16:09

mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:04

K.McC#24 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:45

Lesterpolyester wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:24

I think it makes perfect sense. Lets keep Hall, Nuge, Eb's and continue to suck for the next 10 years. Hall may have been good offensively but he was awful defensively and had a six year losing streak. Sometimes you have to change the culture.

If the trade would have been last year for Lucic & Larson for Hall nobody would have said we were fleeced. Effectively that's what this is and it also gives us a chance to grab the top RH defenseman in free agency.

Something had to give guys the team has SUCKED for 10 years yet every time we trade or talk about trading someone everyone seems up in arms. I don't care who's in the line up next year so long as they start winning!

So you're saying Hall's deal was a in part a salary dump? The sugar-coating ain't sticking.

You trade your best player (up until a few months ago) for a #1 D who can run a PP.....you add pieces if you need to. Turns out that even if Demers signs here, and they have Larsson (wrong Larsson, by the way, Chia), the Oilers are STILL needing a #1 D who can run a PP. This is another in a long list of magic beans deals, where a known excellent hockey player (with plenty of upside still) goes out for something you're HOPING will pan out. You're downgrading at LW with Lucic coming in, who has already reached his peak in terms of his career. You needed Lucic as a secondary option at LW, not the primary.....he will compliment his center, not carry the play.

The Oilers organization can spin & sell this any way they want to try, but this was a bad day for the Oilers and their fans. This was NOT the $6 million contract the Oilers needed to move, if this is being sold on any level in terms of salary and cap room.

100% this. Larsson might be part of the solution, but not at the expense of Hall.

Chiarelli needed to hold strong and wait for RNH or Eberle to be the player triggering this deal. Also, why now? This completely could have happened after free agency.

Absolutely. Oilers have been had. Steal of the year.
This is Chiarelli's Tyler Seguin move with an Oiler Logo on it.

And.. the dip shttt probably isn't done ... wait for the other shoe..

Nuge+ for Shattenkirk with no contract?

Yeah something like that.. or this.. RNH + Eberle for Dumba. Same exchange rate as what just went down.

Chiarelli. Tool.

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Farewell, Hall.... [message #674146 is a reply to message #673935 ]	Thu, 30 June 2016 08:48

Lesterpolyester
Messages: 5
Registered: January 2006
Location: Saskatoon

No Cups

K.McC#24 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:45

Lesterpolyester wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:24

I think it makes perfect sense. Lets keep Hall, Nuge, Eb's and continue to suck for the next 10 years. Hall may have been good offensively but he was awful defensively and had a six year losing streak. Sometimes you have to change the culture.

If the trade would have been last year for Lucic & Larson for Hall nobody would have said we were fleeced. Effectively that's what this is and it also gives us a chance to grab the top RH defenseman in free agency.

Something had to give guys the team has SUCKED for 10 years yet every time we trade or talk about trading someone everyone seems up in arms. I don't care who's in the line up next year so long as they start winning!

So you're saying Hall's deal was a in part a salary dump? The sugar-coating ain't sticking.

You trade your best player (up until a few months ago) for a #1 D who can run a PP.....you add pieces if you need to. Turns out that even if Demers signs here, and they have Larsson (wrong Larsson, by the way, Chia), the Oilers are STILL needing a #1 D who can run a PP. This is another in a long list of magic beans deals, where a known excellent hockey player (with plenty of upside still) goes out for something you're HOPING will pan out. You're downgrading at LW with Lucic coming in, who has already reached his peak in terms of his career. You needed Lucic as a secondary option at LW, not the primary.....he will compliment his center, not carry the play.

The Oilers organization can spin & sell this any way they want to try, but this was a bad day for the Oilers and their fans. This was NOT the $6 million contract the Oilers needed to move, if this is being sold on any level in terms of salary and cap room.

I'm not saying salary dump at all. Your assessment of Lucic being on the down slide is based on? Am I happy all they gotback was Larson....No not at all. Am I happy that at least their trying to address real needs YES! If Hall is such a complete all-star why was he passed over for the Olympic Team & The World Cup of Hockey Team?

Did we lose this trade 100% is the TEAM better time will tell but anything would be better then second last place in the league

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Re: Farewell, Hall.... [message #674180 is a reply to message #674146 ]	Thu, 30 June 2016 11:18

K.McC#24
Messages: 2834
Registered: March 2004
Location: ALBERTA

2 Cups

Lesterpolyester wrote on Thu, 30 June 2016 08:48

K.McC#24 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:45

Lesterpolyester wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:24

I think it makes perfect sense. Lets keep Hall, Nuge, Eb's and continue to suck for the next 10 years. Hall may have been good offensively but he was awful defensively and had a six year losing streak. Sometimes you have to change the culture.

If the trade would have been last year for Lucic & Larson for Hall nobody would have said we were fleeced. Effectively that's what this is and it also gives us a chance to grab the top RH defenseman in free agency.

Something had to give guys the team has SUCKED for 10 years yet every time we trade or talk about trading someone everyone seems up in arms. I don't care who's in the line up next year so long as they start winning!

So you're saying Hall's deal was a in part a salary dump? The sugar-coating ain't sticking.

You trade your best player (up until a few months ago) for a #1 D who can run a PP.....you add pieces if you need to. Turns out that even if Demers signs here, and they have Larsson (wrong Larsson, by the way, Chia), the Oilers are STILL needing a #1 D who can run a PP. This is another in a long list of magic beans deals, where a known excellent hockey player (with plenty of upside still) goes out for something you're HOPING will pan out. You're downgrading at LW with Lucic coming in, who has already reached his peak in terms of his career. You needed Lucic as a secondary option at LW, not the primary.....he will compliment his center, not carry the play.

The Oilers organization can spin & sell this any way they want to try, but this was a bad day for the Oilers and their fans. This was NOT the $6 million contract the Oilers needed to move, if this is being sold on any level in terms of salary and cap room.

I'm not saying salary dump at all. Your assessment of Lucic being on the down slide is based on? Am I happy all they gotback was Larson....No not at all. Am I happy that at least their trying to address real needs YES! If Hall is such a complete all-star why was he passed over for the Olympic Team & The World Cup of Hockey Team?

Did we lose this trade 100% is the TEAM better time will tell but anything would be better then second last place in the league

Lucic is 28, the Oilers will pay for 3 years of term that they shouldn't. Taylor Hall is 24, with upside. Again, as I stated, if you're trading Taylor Hall, add pieces if you need to and make sure you get the guy you NEED. The Oilers have traded their very best asset (who could be traded) and STILL will not have a #1 RH D who can contribute 5x5 and who can run a PP, even if Demers is signed. If you're trading Taylor Hall, you need to package him if you have to, to get that guy, and the Oilers didn't. I'd love to know what the ask was for PK Subban, given the deal the Habs eventually made.

This is not Lucic & Larson for Hall, but if you need that to feel good, have at it. Maybe tomorrow RNH goes for a 3rd pairing guy, and we can sell that as a salary dump as well.

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Re: Farewell, Hall.... [message #674198 is a reply to message #674180 ]	Thu, 30 June 2016 12:09

Lesterpolyester
Messages: 5
Registered: January 2006
Location: Saskatoon

No Cups

K.McC#24 wrote on Thu, 30 June 2016 11:18

Lesterpolyester wrote on Thu, 30 June 2016 08:48

K.McC#24 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:45

Lesterpolyester wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:24

I think it makes perfect sense. Lets keep Hall, Nuge, Eb's and continue to suck for the next 10 years. Hall may have been good offensively but he was awful defensively and had a six year losing streak. Sometimes you have to change the culture.

If the trade would have been last year for Lucic & Larson for Hall nobody would have said we were fleeced. Effectively that's what this is and it also gives us a chance to grab the top RH defenseman in free agency.

Something had to give guys the team has SUCKED for 10 years yet every time we trade or talk about trading someone everyone seems up in arms. I don't care who's in the line up next year so long as they start winning!

So you're saying Hall's deal was a in part a salary dump? The sugar-coating ain't sticking.

You trade your best player (up until a few months ago) for a #1 D who can run a PP.....you add pieces if you need to. Turns out that even if Demers signs here, and they have Larsson (wrong Larsson, by the way, Chia), the Oilers are STILL needing a #1 D who can run a PP. This is another in a long list of magic beans deals, where a known excellent hockey player (with plenty of upside still) goes out for something you're HOPING will pan out. You're downgrading at LW with Lucic coming in, who has already reached his peak in terms of his career. You needed Lucic as a secondary option at LW, not the primary.....he will compliment his center, not carry the play.

The Oilers organization can spin & sell this any way they want to try, but this was a bad day for the Oilers and their fans. This was NOT the $6 million contract the Oilers needed to move, if this is being sold on any level in terms of salary and cap room.

I'm not saying salary dump at all. Your assessment of Lucic being on the down slide is based on? Am I happy all they gotback was Larson....No not at all. Am I happy that at least their trying to address real needs YES! If Hall is such a complete all-star why was he passed over for the Olympic Team & The World Cup of Hockey Team?

Did we lose this trade 100% is the TEAM better time will tell but anything would be better then second last place in the league

Lucic is 28, the Oilers will pay for 3 years of term that they shouldn't. Taylor Hall is 24, with upside. Again, as I stated, if you're trading Taylor Hall, add pieces if you need to and make sure you get the guy you NEED. The Oilers have traded their very best asset (who could be traded) and STILL will not have a #1 RH D who can contribute 5x5 and who can run a PP, even if Demers is signed. If you're trading Taylor Hall, you need to package him if you have to, to get that guy, and the Oilers didn't. I'd love to know what the ask was for PK Subban, given the deal the Habs eventually made.

This is not Lucic & Larson for Hall, but if you need that to feel good, have at it. Maybe tomorrow RNH goes for a 3rd pairing guy, and we can sell that as a salary dump as well.

I don't need any of it. Your opinion of Hall is obviously higher than any of the other 29 GM's in the NHL as I'm sure Chia didn't hold out for the worst option. This was obviously the best offer for Hall as for his #1 trade chip value I'd say that's pretty questionable.

Hall was a good Oiler as I've said before I thought the return wasn't enough but the team was second last in the NHL and has SUCKED every year that Hall has been here. It's the definition of insanity. If you need to believe Hall was worth PK or Weber I guess your right Chia must have just wanted to shed salary.

Personally I don't give a damn who's on the team going forward so long as they start moving forward. There's no doubt in my mind that Chia got kicked in this trade but the guy they traded for immediately improves the back end of this team. Is he worth Hall "NO" I agree but apparently Hall isn't any where worth what you think he is.

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Re: Farewell, Hall.... [message #674889 is a reply to message #674198 ]	Fri, 08 July 2016 11:57

K.McC#24
Messages: 2834
Registered: March 2004
Location: ALBERTA

2 Cups

Lesterpolyester wrote on Thu, 30 June 2016 12:09

K.McC#24 wrote on Thu, 30 June 2016 11:18

Lesterpolyester wrote on Thu, 30 June 2016 08:48

K.McC#24 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:45

Lesterpolyester wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:24

I think it makes perfect sense. Lets keep Hall, Nuge, Eb's and continue to suck for the next 10 years. Hall may have been good offensively but he was awful defensively and had a six year losing streak. Sometimes you have to change the culture.

If the trade would have been last year for Lucic & Larson for Hall nobody would have said we were fleeced. Effectively that's what this is and it also gives us a chance to grab the top RH defenseman in free agency.

Something had to give guys the team has SUCKED for 10 years yet every time we trade or talk about trading someone everyone seems up in arms. I don't care who's in the line up next year so long as they start winning!

So you're saying Hall's deal was a in part a salary dump? The sugar-coating ain't sticking.

You trade your best player (up until a few months ago) for a #1 D who can run a PP.....you add pieces if you need to. Turns out that even if Demers signs here, and they have Larsson (wrong Larsson, by the way, Chia), the Oilers are STILL needing a #1 D who can run a PP. This is another in a long list of magic beans deals, where a known excellent hockey player (with plenty of upside still) goes out for something you're HOPING will pan out. You're downgrading at LW with Lucic coming in, who has already reached his peak in terms of his career. You needed Lucic as a secondary option at LW, not the primary.....he will compliment his center, not carry the play.

The Oilers organization can spin & sell this any way they want to try, but this was a bad day for the Oilers and their fans. This was NOT the $6 million contract the Oilers needed to move, if this is being sold on any level in terms of salary and cap room.

I'm not saying salary dump at all. Your assessment of Lucic being on the down slide is based on? Am I happy all they gotback was Larson....No not at all. Am I happy that at least their trying to address real needs YES! If Hall is such a complete all-star why was he passed over for the Olympic Team & The World Cup of Hockey Team?

Did we lose this trade 100% is the TEAM better time will tell but anything would be better then second last place in the league

Lucic is 28, the Oilers will pay for 3 years of term that they shouldn't. Taylor Hall is 24, with upside. Again, as I stated, if you're trading Taylor Hall, add pieces if you need to and make sure you get the guy you NEED. The Oilers have traded their very best asset (who could be traded) and STILL will not have a #1 RH D who can contribute 5x5 and who can run a PP, even if Demers is signed. If you're trading Taylor Hall, you need to package him if you have to, to get that guy, and the Oilers didn't. I'd love to know what the ask was for PK Subban, given the deal the Habs eventually made.

This is not Lucic & Larson for Hall, but if you need that to feel good, have at it. Maybe tomorrow RNH goes for a 3rd pairing guy, and we can sell that as a salary dump as well.

I don't need any of it. Your opinion of Hall is obviously higher than any of the other 29 GM's in the NHL as I'm sure Chia didn't hold out for the worst option. This was obviously the best offer for Hall as for his #1 trade chip value I'd say that's pretty questionable.

Hall was a good Oiler as I've said before I thought the return wasn't enough but the team was second last in the NHL and has SUCKED every year that Hall has been here. It's the definition of insanity. If you need to believe Hall was worth PK or Weber I guess your right Chia must have just wanted to shed salary.

Personally I don't give a damn who's on the team going forward so long as they start moving forward. There's no doubt in my mind that Chia got kicked in this trade but the guy they traded for immediately improves the back end of this team. Is he worth Hall "NO" I agree but apparently Hall isn't any where worth what you think he is.

The guy they traded away immediately downgrades the front end of this team. All I and others have said is that if you have to move Hall, you make damn sure you're addressing your biggest need when you do it. If the value of Hall on the market is so low (even if he's easily the Oilers' 2nd best player, arguably top 3 LW in the league), you add to Hall if you need to and get the player you most need, which is the RH D that plays minutes and produces points 5x5 and on the PP. Now, we're in a situation where Chiarelli has used his big piece, he's shot the wad, and he STILL does not have that player. If Hall went out the door, the big need would have had to have been addressed. The big need wasn't addressed, and that's why this deal was a bad deal.

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Re: Farewell, Hall.... [message #674897 is a reply to message #674889 ]	Fri, 08 July 2016 14:11

Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

K.McC#24 wrote on Fri, 08 July 2016 11:57

Lesterpolyester wrote on Thu, 30 June 2016 12:09

I don't need any of it. Your opinion of Hall is obviously higher than any of the other 29 GM's in the NHL as I'm sure Chia didn't hold out for the worst option. This was obviously the best offer for Hall as for his #1 trade chip value I'd say that's pretty questionable.

Hall was a good Oiler as I've said before I thought the return wasn't enough but the team was second last in the NHL and has SUCKED every year that Hall has been here. It's the definition of insanity. If you need to believe Hall was worth PK or Weber I guess your right Chia must have just wanted to shed salary.

Personally I don't give a damn who's on the team going forward so long as they start moving forward. There's no doubt in my mind that Chia got kicked in this trade but the guy they traded for immediately improves the back end of this team. Is he worth Hall "NO" I agree but apparently Hall isn't any where worth what you think he is.

The guy they traded away immediately downgrades the front end of this team. All I and others have said is that if you have to move Hall, you make damn sure you're addressing your biggest need when you do it. If the value of Hall on the market is so low (even if he's easily the Oilers' 2nd best player, arguably top 3 LW in the league), you add to Hall if you need to and get the player you most need, which is the RH D that plays minutes and produces points 5x5 and on the PP. Now, we're in a situation where Chiarelli has used his big piece, he's shot the wad, and he STILL does not have that player. If Hall went out the door, the big need would have had to have been addressed. The big need wasn't addressed, and that's why this deal was a bad deal.

I'm starting to really hate seeing how often this "doing the same thing and expecting different results is the meaning of insanity!"

When have the Oilers done the same thing? The level of turn-over year to year has been huge. Eberle is now the longest tenured player on the team, and he's only been here six seasons. In that time, he's played under five different coaches. There have been countless players cycled out of here and we've heard this line parroted again and again when good players are moved on.

I think believing they need change for the sake of change is one of the biggest mistakes that bad teams make. Fans and management start to think that a player is not good, just because he's playing on a losing team. The player is likely exhausted by the weight of losing repeatedly, especially while doing all they can to propel the team forward, but hockey is a team game. A single player, no matter how great, can't right the ship by himself.

The annoying thing is that we can't ever look at this trade in isolation. The team may very well be better this year. If the team does improve, there will be those who point to this trade as the reason, but it probably only requires greater health from the key players to achieve more than last year's version. McDavid being a year older and healthy is probably worth several points in the standings alone. The defence could be better just from having a healthy Klefbom, Nurse a year older and Fayne looking like he actually belongs in the NHL. There was no requirement to trade Hall to accommodate having Lucic brought in. Lucic will probably play on McDavid's line - Hall didn't usually and was a driver for a second line. It won't be possible to truly measure how much impact taking a great player like Hall out of the lineup has.

For the record, I hate the argument that Chiarelli has made trades like this in the past and its worked out as well - that's not really true. Since the Seguin trade, the Bruins have clearly been on a downward slope. Have they won a single playoff round since trading Seguin? With the Kessel deal, they got lucky that the Leafs were as bad as they ended up being after that trade and even still, the Leafs ended up getting more production for longer out of their end of that trade.

For me, this trade will always come down to Peter Chiarelli's own admission that he gave up the best player in the trade and yet failed to get anything else besides Larsson.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: Farewell, Hall.... [message #673951 is a reply to message #673908 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 16:10

ChasinStanley
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Leia wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:11

One thing that I picked up on and it may be nothing at all through the press conference, was that Chia constantly referred to Hall as a great player, never elite always great. Not sure if it means anything, and I may be clutching at straws, but perhaps Chia didn't rate him as highly as we did.

I would agree with this. Hall doesn't make others around him better and really doesn't mesh with a lot of players. He is an incredibly talented individual who can do great things individually but really doesn't bring a lot to those around him. I loved Hall's passion and hard work out there but he only ever elevated his game not those around him and he couldn't elevate his game enough on a regular basis to be a difference maker in the standings.

I'mthink making this trade the oilers win more games this year than if they stayed the course, which is all that matters.

Renaissance 2015

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Re: Farewell, Hall.... [message #673966 is a reply to message #673951 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 16:35

Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

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ChasinStanley wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 16:10

Leia wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:11

One thing that I picked up on and it may be nothing at all through the press conference, was that Chia constantly referred to Hall as a great player, never elite always great. Not sure if it means anything, and I may be clutching at straws, but perhaps Chia didn't rate him as highly as we did.

I would agree with this. Hall doesn't make others around him better and really doesn't mesh with a lot of players. He is an incredibly talented individual who can do great things individually but really doesn't bring a lot to those around him. I loved Hall's passion and hard work out there but he only ever elevated his game not those around him and he couldn't elevate his game enough on a regular basis to be a difference maker in the standings.

I'mthink making this trade the oilers win more games this year than if they stayed the course, which is all that matters.

Ha ha...maybe you shouldn't look at the WOWY numbers for Draisaitl.

Just on points alone, the difference between Draisaitl with Hall and without Hall is insane.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: Farewell, Hall.... [message #673977 is a reply to message #673966 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 16:42

Kr55
Messages: 10770
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

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Adam wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 16:35

ChasinStanley wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 16:10

Leia wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:11

One thing that I picked up on and it may be nothing at all through the press conference, was that Chia constantly referred to Hall as a great player, never elite always great. Not sure if it means anything, and I may be clutching at straws, but perhaps Chia didn't rate him as highly as we did.

I would agree with this. Hall doesn't make others around him better and really doesn't mesh with a lot of players. He is an incredibly talented individual who can do great things individually but really doesn't bring a lot to those around him. I loved Hall's passion and hard work out there but he only ever elevated his game not those around him and he couldn't elevate his game enough on a regular basis to be a difference maker in the standings.

I'mthink making this trade the oilers win more games this year than if they stayed the course, which is all that matters.

Ha ha...maybe you shouldn't look at the WOWY numbers for Draisaitl.

Just on points alone, the difference between Draisaitl with Hall and without Hall is insane.

Hall 5v5 without Drai, 363 minutes, 1.79 Points/60
Drai 5v5 without Hall, 160 minutes, 1.13 Points/60

That's a pretty small sample size for Drai. Wonder how much of that time is early or late changes. If Drai got lucky and had 1 more point, he would have had 1.5 Points/60 without Hall. If he fluked out and had 2 more points without Hall, he would have had 1.875 Points/60 without him.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

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Re: Farewell, Hall.... [message #674135 is a reply to message #673908 ]	Thu, 30 June 2016 06:57

g2k
Messages: 2840
Registered: January 2003
Location: The Hood

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Leia wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:11

One thing that I picked up on and it may be nothing at all through the press conference, was that Chia constantly referred to Hall as a great player, never elite always great. Not sure if it means anything, and I may be clutching at straws, but perhaps Chia didn't rate him as highly as we did.

Because a great player for an above average player sounds much better that an elite player for an above average player.

It's nothing more than that.

#firebob #screwitjustselltheteam #ownerisacreep

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Re: Farewell, Hall.... [message #674102 is a reply to message #673902 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 22:32

TJ39
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Location: British Columbia

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Ditto

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673922 is a reply to message #673755 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:24

smyth260
Messages: 1081
Registered: November 2007

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Is it too soon to say fire Chiarelli?

He seems to have a good understanding of contract negotiations, but he is sure awful at getting fair value with trades. Larsson better be good because this is not a trade that you recover from. Reinhart looks more awful as days go by.

So we had a left winger who had lots of great hockey to play, and now we will overpay for a winger who has maybe 4 years of lesser hockey to play.

[Updated on: Wed, 29 June 2016 15:39]

Clean house or bust

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673926 is a reply to message #673922 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:27

MJ
Messages: 267
Registered: November 1997
Location: Victoria

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smyth260 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:24

Is it too soon to say fire Chiarelli?

If we're out of any reasonable chance of playoffs by the end of November yet again, I'm on that bandwagon.

If we still have a shot in January, that's new territory.

If we're still in the running in March but miss, I'm ok with him and his moves.

For now I'll be as patient as Tambo. icon_cool

icon_cool

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673927 is a reply to message #673922 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:28

ryanc182
Messages: 13
Registered: July 2008
Location: Red Deer

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I'm going to get flamed for this, but I don't think Taylor Hall is a franchise player. He is a very good player, but not franchise.

I don't love the trade, but I also don't hate it. The last few seasons Hall has been very mediocre on a bad Oilers team. I wish him success in NJ, but I'd temper expectations there as he'll have very little help.

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673929 is a reply to message #673927 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:28

Lesterpolyester
Messages: 5
Registered: January 2006
Location: Saskatoon

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ryanc182 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:28

I'm going to get flamed for this, but I don't think Taylor Hall is a franchise player. He is a very good player, but not franchise.

I don't love the trade, but I also don't hate it. The last few seasons Hall has been very mediocre on a bad Oilers team. I wish him success in NJ, but I'd temper expectations there as he'll have very little help.

Agreed!

rock

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