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Oilers » Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673998 is a reply to message #673996 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 17:31

NetBOG
Messages: 2951
Registered: January 2006
Location: Parts Unknown

2 Cups

Adam wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 17:26

eedok wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 17:22

Magnum wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 17:17

A guy in my office, that I typically refer to as Douche Bag Steve, said that Hall got traded because he has a coke problem. Douche Bag Steve knows, he has season tickets.

Sadly, that's the best consolation I've found so far on this. cry

cry

The best consolation I've heard was this is the 2nd time Chiarelli has been involved in a trade involving a top LW and an unproven defenceman, when he was an assistant in Ottawa when they traded Yashin for Chara(though they got more in that deal, but it's hard to trade with Milbury these days)

Ottawa also managed to get the second overall pick in the upcoming draft in that one...who turned out to be Spezza.

I was working in Ottawa when the Yashin trade was done. It felt much the same in Ottawa then as it does in Edmonton today.

Sometimes when things look bad, they work out just fine.

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674000 is a reply to message #673995 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 17:33

Skookum Jim
Messages: 4419
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

4 Cups

eedok wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 16:22

Magnum wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 17:17

A guy in my office, that I typically refer to as Douche Bag Steve, said that Hall got traded because he has a coke problem. Douche Bag Steve knows, he has season tickets.

Sadly, that's the best consolation I've found so far on this. cry

cry

The best consolation I've heard was this is the 2nd time Chiarelli has been involved in a trade involving a top LW and an unproven defenceman, when he was an assistant in Ottawa when they traded Yashin for Chara(though they got more in that deal, but it's hard to trade with Milbury these days)

Hey Chiarelli learned from the best.

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674004 is a reply to message #674000 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 17:44

Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

From Thomas Drance:

Quote:

122 NHL defencemen have played at least 4000 minutes since 2012-13. Larsson has outscored: Scuderi, N. Schultz, Orpik, Gorges, M. Stuart

Good god.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674009 is a reply to message #674004 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 17:56

Skookum Jim
Messages: 4419
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

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Adam wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 16:44

From Thomas Drance:

Quote:

122 NHL defencemen have played at least 4000 minutes since 2012-13. Larsson has outscored: Scuderi, N. Schultz, Orpik, Gorges, M. Stuart

Good god.

The guy has 9 goals in his ENTIRE career. We just traded Taylor Hall, top 10 forward, Oilers perennial top scorer, for Jason Freaking Smith!

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674016 is a reply to message #674009 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 18:24

Ragnarok73
Messages: 2419
Registered: February 2011

2 Cups

Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 17:56

The guy has 9 goals in his ENTIRE career. We just traded Taylor Hall, top 10 forward, Oilers perennial top scorer, for Jason Freaking Smith!

Yet Smith played more playoff games for the Oilers than Hall ever did or will and was a solid part of a good Oil D that helped get them there.

The number of people here who are fixated on the trees without looking at the entire forest really surprises me. I'd expect this kind of knee-jerk sky-is-falling crying on the HF forum, but not here. If you're going to skewer Chia, at least wait until we see how this team is doing with all of the changes that have been made. If they are still floundering in the basement as per usual and it was because of these moves, I'll jump on the "Hang Chia" bandwagon quickly enough.

"There's no greater springboard to development than failure." - Craig MacTavish, April 13/15.

5-14-6-1

"Sabres think the suck is their ally? They merely adopted the suck. The Oilers were born in it...molded by it."

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674010 is a reply to message #674004 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 18:02

NetBOG
Messages: 2951
Registered: January 2006
Location: Parts Unknown

2 Cups

Adam wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 17:44

From Thomas Drance:

Quote:

122 NHL defencemen have played at least 4000 minutes since 2012-13. Larsson has outscored: Scuderi, N. Schultz, Orpik, Gorges, M. Stuart

Good god.

Way to pick a time frame that specifically gives you the data you're looking for.

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674012 is a reply to message #674004 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 18:04

Goose
Messages: 1098
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver

1 Cup

Adam wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 16:44

From Thomas Drance:

Quote:

122 NHL defencemen have played at least 4000 minutes since 2012-13. Larsson has outscored: Scuderi, N. Schultz, Orpik, Gorges, M. Stuart

Good god.

Not to justify the deal, but I saw this tweet and his criteria seems little ridiculous. Larsson split time between the AHL and NHL in 12/13 and 13/14. If he had played full seasons in the NHL, you would assume he would be higher up that list. A full time defenceman would probably be closer to 6000 minutes over 4 years, so it seems Drance picked 4000 minutes specifically to include Larsson in the list, even though it's not really fair to him as he only played 209 out of a possible 328 games.

Over the past 2 years, Larsson has 42 points, which of course is still not good. But it's way better than 4 from the bottom. Same number of points as guys like Dumba, Trouba, Petry (none of whom I would trade straight up for Hall obviously).

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674013 is a reply to message #674012 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 18:06

Goose
Messages: 1098
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver

1 Cup

Sorry, double post.

[Updated on: Wed, 29 June 2016 18:47]

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673999 is a reply to message #673993 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 17:32

Skookum Jim
Messages: 4419
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

4 Cups

Magnum wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 16:17

A guy in my office, that I typically refer to as Douche Bag Steve, said that Hall got traded because he has a coke problem. Douche Bag Steve knows, he has season tickets.

Sadly, that's the best consolation I've found so far on this. cry

cry

Well at least it's different than the mythical.. "He was doing the goaltenders wife.."

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673991 is a reply to message #673755 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 17:16

Suomalainen
Messages: 900
Registered: May 2002
Location: Boulder, CO

No Cups

This is the one quote I'm clutching on to - purely because I remember this guy on the ice

https://twitter.com/KenDaneykoMSG/status/748258561994670080

"At the same time people that don't see how good Adam Larsson is on daily basis, can't appreciate him like we did! Edmonton got a real good d"

97.

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673997 is a reply to message #673991 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 17:29

Skookum Jim
Messages: 4419
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

4 Cups

Suomalainen wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 16:16

This is the one quote I'm clutching on to - purely because I remember this guy on the ice

https://twitter.com/KenDaneykoMSG/status/748258561994670080

"At the same time people that don't see how good Adam Larsson is on daily basis, can't appreciate him like we did! Edmonton got a real good d"

Ha! Yeah that sounds like what a used car salesman tells you as you drive off the lot with your newly purchased 2002 Hyundai ... except with a used car there is a grace period where you can take it back and get your money back.

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674002 is a reply to message #673991 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 17:40

honkerhitter
Messages: 3
Registered: November 2014
Location: Northeast Alberta

No Cups

We lose lose lose this trade , no matter what Larson does , this just cuts deep.
I texted into Bob Stauffer " Peter just created Taylor the Incredible HallK "
Hall> Larson + Prospect+ 2nd pic .. This is a fail !
Was Hall a piece that could be moved , yep but this is absolutley under valued ridiculous!
Then you find out Weber was actually being shopped? WT---- F!!
Hall + whatever for Weber I could live with .. Suffering Sucatash this sucks.

Taylor , chin up you were a great Oiler and will be sorrowly missed .
You survived as a fan favorite thru much adversity and bad standings , good luck on your future ventures and I Hope you and Hernrique light it up.

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674003 is a reply to message #673755 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 17:41

Skookum Jim
Messages: 4419
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

4 Cups

Got to lie down. Feel sick.
Not looking forward to any more Chiarelli "management".

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674008 is a reply to message #673755 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 17:54

philly boy
Messages: 135
Registered: July 2007
Location: E-Town

No Cups

Ugly trade on the surface, but something needed to be done, maybe not as crazy as this, but who knows. There has been tons of speculation about Hall in Edmonton. I've heard lots of stuff too (all bad). In any case, this is McDavid's team now, he is on his way to being a top 3 player in the world. While I don't like the trade, I also wasn't a huge fan of Hall and thought he was overrated, despite what the analytics show. Chia flat out got pumped by Shero in this deal, it's just not an acceptable return for the value Hall gives. He's a star, borderline superstar winger in the game who is big time line driver, creates chances like crazy without having had much success on the PP.

It really is an ugly, strange trade on the surface though. Hard to get over, just in terms of value. I wasn't against trading Hall, just not for Adam Larsson. They still need a legit offensive D and PP option, which Larsson is not. The one consolation is that they'll have some balance in the line up come the fall, assuming Lucic signs, still have a good offence and the prospect of a Klefbom-Larsson pairing, which if they stay healthy, is very interesting indeed. The countrymen always play better together, both guys have high ceilings, big bodies, good amount of skill (maybe not in terms of putting up points but puck handling and good first pass), quality all around games. I think both can be #2 D-men.

[Updated on: Wed, 29 June 2016 18:03]

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674014 is a reply to message #674008 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 18:06

McDavid97
Messages: 99
Registered: July 2007

No Cups

This is a terrible trade. This and Pronger are at the same level and those are both of the trades I remember since following the Oilers religiously.
Hall is a top 10 LW in the league there is no way that you couldn't get a better defender and pieces (top prospect / pick as well).
To say oh we can sign Lucic now because of this and it makes this trade better is ignorant. We didn't get enough for one of our top players, it makes our team worse overall.
Are they going to sign Lucic, probably but it will be for too much money and term. Will we sign someone else, probably but again it will be for too much money/term. Could they have fit under the Oilers payroll the way it was with Hall I'm sure they could have.

With Larsson they do get $1.8M less in cap hit and a contract that goes for 2 more years. But they gave up a much better asset to do it.

I'm scared for the future, we got worse today as a team. I'm scared with the leadership of the Oilers. But at least this is the make or break year for them. They don't do much better then last year season tickets will drop off dramatically (I will be one of them reducing seats if this is the case).

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674020 is a reply to message #674014 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 18:30

Skookum Jim
Messages: 4419
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

4 Cups

McDavid97 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 17:06

This is a terrible trade. This and Pronger are at the same level and those are both of the trades I remember since following the Oilers religiously.
Hall is a top 10 LW in the league there is no way that you couldn't get a better defender and pieces (top prospect / pick as well).
To say oh we can sign Lucic now because of this and it makes this trade better is ignorant. We didn't get enough for one of our top players, it makes our team worse overall.
Are they going to sign Lucic, probably but it will be for too much money and term. Will we sign someone else, probably but again it will be for too much money/term. Could they have fit under the Oilers payroll the way it was with Hall I'm sure they could have.

With Larsson they do get $1.8M less in cap hit and a contract that goes for 2 more years. But they gave up a much better asset to do it.

I'm scared for the future, we got worse today as a team. I'm scared with the leadership of the Oilers. But at least this is the make or break year for them. They don't do much better then last year season tickets will drop off dramatically (I will be one of them reducing seats if this is the case).

Yeah they save 30% on Hall's salary, and get back 1/4 the player. Larsson could be no better than what Davidson will be. Larsson reminds me of J. Petry without the points.

This is like doing the Gretzky trade all over again and just getting back Jimmy Carson.

Worst major trade in Oiler history.

As Lowetide said in his blog, if the Oilers don't make the playoffs this year, Chiarelli deserves to be fired.

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674011 is a reply to message #673755 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 18:03

mightyreasoner
Messages: 520
Registered: October 2005
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

I really wish that rumoured PK Subban deal had happened at the draft.

Really, almost all of the scenarios that were discussed (and dismissed) by us on here are better than the one that happened. Not all, but almost all.

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674027 is a reply to message #674011 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 18:51

rjayd2
Messages: 20
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

Just wanted to say that as an avid lurker of both this site and hfboards, I am truly shocked at the over-the-top negative reactions coming from what I considered a more knowledgable and mature forum of posters. It's actually embarrassing (yet thoroughly entertaining) to read some of the blatant fanboy-ism and lack of perspective coming from some of the know-it-alls on here.

With that said props, to those rational individuals capable of seeing this trade, while not perfect, as a positive move we should be ok with and optimistic about. Remember how literally EVERY oilers fan in the world was moaning over our need for a meaningful upgrade to our rhd? Well we got one and suddenly it's the worst thing ever to happen. Sorry to those that think so but Taylor Hall is not in fact an irreplaceable franchise player -- he's a quality player but he's not without his faults and am perfectly fine with him gone if that's what was required to get us the piece we need far more than him.

Based on the reactions of (rational/knowlegable) devils fans we just landed ourselves a quality defenseman-- young, right handed and on a very good contract at that -- for the price of a good but replaceable and far less coveted piece (if you disagree please find me the gm that would place his preference on wingers before centers and defensemen). Arguably yes we "lost" the trade at present based on perceived value but I believe based on the important need we just helped to fill + cap space for future moves I don't quite understand how anyone can not see this as an overall win for this organization and a step in the right direction.

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674015 is a reply to message #673755 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 18:20

Skookum Jim
Messages: 4419
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

4 Cups

Here are some comments..
http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/ cult-of-hockey-this-team-is-doing-a-bang-up-job-alienating-t heir-entire-fanbase-twitter-boils-over-with-news-of-taylor-h all-trade

Quote:

ames Mirtle, the Globe & Mail: It’s official. It’s… the Oilers.

Travis Yost, TSN Hockey Analytics Writer: It’s official. Oilers solidify one of the worst trades I can ever remember. Certainly so in the modern era. Fireable offense.

Allan “Lowetide” Mitchell, Oilers blogger & radio host: The Edmonton Oilers have dealt Taylor Hall. It is a terrible trade

Pat McLean, Oilers Blogger (Black Dog Hates Skunks): Said all along, it’s ok to trade anyone but if you trade 4 you need a real return not a maybe. And then this. Devastating.

Heather Marginet, Oilers fan: Unless somehow they get a number 1 Dman with the extra cap space plus Lucic (and I am reaching I know) it’s awful.

Jonathan Willis, Oilers blogger (Cult of Hockey): That’s an unspeakably bad return. The really incredible thing is that it appears Edmonton has traded Taylor Hall and still needs a first unit PP defenceman.

Scott Wheeler, Leafs Blogger (Pension Plan Puppets): Taylor Hall is 24 years old and could finish in the top 10 in league scoring every year for the duration of his contract.

Eric Macramalla, TSN Legal Analyst: Now that was just plain awful trade by Oilers. Terrible asset management by Oilers.

Darcy “Woodguy” McLeod, Oilers blogger (Because Oilers): Hall for Larsson and PK for Weber. ARE PEOPLE STILL WONDERING WHY CANADIAN TEAMS DON’T MAKE THE F ING PLAYOFFS????

Bruce Arthur, Toronto Star: And people wonder why Canadian teams don’t win Stanley Cups anymore

Aaron, Oilers fan: There is no way to justify this trade ESPECIALLY 10 minutes before Subban was traded. This is God awful. This team is doing a bang up job alienating their entire fanbase. No excuses anymore. I hate this team. Jump off a cliff @EdmontonOilers

Ryan Batty, Oilers blogger (Copper & Blue): The other day I was trying to decide how many Oilers games I wanted to go to this year. The answer is not many.

Kris Hansen, Oilers blogger (The Oilers’ Rig): Taylor Hall was my favorite Oiler. Have his jersey, multiple autographs. I’m extremely choked. The Oilers lose the trade.

Megan Fowler, Oilers blogger (The Oilers’ Rig) and avowed Taylor Hall fan: I haven’t had a favourite Oiler since Weight. I didn’t want a favourite player because I knew it would break my heart.

Nicholas Rogoza, Oilers fan: People wear your Hall jersey proud he was the best player this team had for many year.

Ben Massey, romer Oilers blogger: I get that @hallsy04 feels “slighted,” but if it helps Oilers fans love him more than the God-awful franchise he’s so lucky to be leaving.

Tom Gulitti, Devils writer for NHL.com: Hall basically said he’s taking trade as “an indictment of me as a hockey player”. Clearly wants to prove Oilers made a mistake.

Grant McCagg, McKeen’s chief amateur scout:Hall for Larsson…what am I missing here? Seems like larceny for the Devils.

Jason Gregor, TSN 1260: Anyone can debate trade. But hard to trust an organization that continually employs people who guided team to 10 years without playoffs.

Sean “Down Goes Brown” McIndoe, hockey blogger and humourist: The Oilers just traded Taylor Hall for a handful of beans. And not even magic beans. Like they reached into a dented can of baked beans.

More Pat McLean: So Demers said no and Chia panicked.

More Jon Willis: Q was just asked to compare Hall deal to Chicago trade losses. They aren’t comparable. CHI moved complementary pieces to *keep* elite pieces.

Scott Cullen, TSN hockey analytics writer: If you were going to trade Taylor Hall or P.K. Subban, wouldn’t you, perhaps, consider holding out for more?

More Travis Yost: Team executive just now: “They should’ve called us — we easily put together a better package than Adam Larsson for Taylor Hall.” / Team executive just told me he would’ve packaged two future first-round picks and a ~ P2 defender for Taylor Hall as a starting point / not every team knew hall was available and being shopped

Alan Hull, Oilers blogger (Copper & Blue) in response to the above: I can’t tell you how angry this makes me.

@nhldrafter, draft analysis site: Meanwhile .. Tyler Dellow was last seen running down the hall yelling to Chiarelli – ‘I meant EKMAN-Larsson!’

More Willis: Adam Larsson played *tough* minutes for all of last year with Mark Fayne’s old partner, Andy Greene.

Take note of this.. Not every GM knew T. Hall was being shopped.
FIRE CHIARELLI.
TODAY.

Quote:

Travis Yost: Team executive just now: “They should’ve called us — we easily put together a better package than Adam Larsson for Taylor Hall.” / Team executive just told me he would’ve packaged two future first-round picks and a ~ P2 defender for Taylor Hall as a starting point / not every team knew hall was available and being shopped

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674017 is a reply to message #674015 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 18:26

Ragnarok73
Messages: 2419
Registered: February 2011

2 Cups

Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 18:20

Take note of this.. Not every GM knew T. Hall was being shopped.
FIRE CHIARELLI.
TODAY.

Quote:

Travis Yost: Team executive just now: “They should’ve called us — we easily put together a better package than Adam Larsson for Taylor Hall.” / Team executive just told me he would’ve packaged two future first-round picks and a ~ P2 defender for Taylor Hall as a starting point / not every team knew hall was available and being shopped

Sheesh. Not every GM has a team with D-men that the Oil could really use. You should seriously step away and take a deep breath, man. Drink a few beers (like, cases).

"There's no greater springboard to development than failure." - Craig MacTavish, April 13/15.

5-14-6-1

"Sabres think the suck is their ally? They merely adopted the suck. The Oilers were born in it...molded by it."

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674018 is a reply to message #674015 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 18:29

Suomalainen
Messages: 900
Registered: May 2002
Location: Boulder, CO

No Cups

[quote title=Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 18:20][quote]

Take note of this.. Not every GM knew T. Hall was being shopped.
FIRE CHIARELLI.
TODAY.

Quote:

Travis Yost: Team executive just now: “They should’ve called us — we easily put together a better package than Adam Larsson for Taylor Hall.” / Team executive just told me he would’ve packaged two future first-round picks and a ~ P2 defender for Taylor Hall as a starting point / not every team knew hall was available and being shopped

This happens every major deal - it's the Brian Burke effect.

97.

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674019 is a reply to message #673755 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 18:30

gthuresonV2
Messages: 1
Registered: November 2015

No Cups

When people calm down, I think that this trade just shows what a 25 goal, 60 point winger gets you.

Six years into his career, that is what Taylor Hall is, and what he will continue to be. That is not bad in today's NHL. It's not worth a stud #1 defenceman though.

Is a he a line-driver? Sometimes. Can he carry a team? Briefly, but he is just as likely to disappear for long stretches.

Not sure how you can compare the Gretzky trade (a Hall of Famer by age of 25) to trading Taylor Hall. One guy was the best player in the world and the leader of a team that was consistently dominant and won 4 Stanley Cups.

The other was sometimes the best player on a team that finished in the bottom 5 in 5 of his 6 years, and bottom 2 in 3 of them.

I don't hate Taylor Hall. I just think some people are vastly overrating him.

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674022 is a reply to message #673755 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 18:34

Kr55
Messages: 10777
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Everyone is so mad that I'm really excited to see how this all plays out next year :)

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674023 is a reply to message #674022 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 18:41

Ragnarok73
Messages: 2419
Registered: February 2011

2 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 18:34

Everyone is so mad that I'm really excited to see how this all plays out next year :)

Maybe it's a good sign that Chia is doing what is needed when so many fans are enraged with this move. Will they be as unhappy when the signings of Lucic and Demers are announced? Let's see...

"There's no greater springboard to development than failure." - Craig MacTavish, April 13/15.

5-14-6-1

"Sabres think the suck is their ally? They merely adopted the suck. The Oilers were born in it...molded by it."

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674024 is a reply to message #674023 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 18:45

Kr55
Messages: 10777
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Ragnarok73 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 18:41

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 18:34

Everyone is so mad that I'm really excited to see how this all plays out next year :)

Maybe it's a good sign that Chia is doing what is needed when so many fans are enraged with this move. Will they be as unhappy when the signings of Lucic and Demers are announced? Let's see...

This move will be judged in isolation probably forever. Even if Larsson does take a big step and turns into a well rounded top pairing D, can always say at the time we should have got more, and that's true. But, it will all be easier to handle if the Oilers are actually a better team.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674026 is a reply to message #674024 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 18:51

Kr55
Messages: 10777
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

And then, if the team starts to win, people will say, "well, we would have been even BETTER if we didn't trade Hall and we traded X for X" and so on. And then the tables have turned, because all those made up scenarios can't be proved to have been possible! So, then the arguments get all muddled and the Hall trade becomes a distant memory.

Again, this is only possible if we actually start to win! :P

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674030 is a reply to message #674024 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 18:54

Skookum Jim
Messages: 4419
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

4 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 17:45

Ragnarok73 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 18:41

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 18:34

Everyone is so mad that I'm really excited to see how this all plays out next year :)

Maybe it's a good sign that Chia is doing what is needed when so many fans are enraged with this move. Will they be as unhappy when the signings of Lucic and Demers are announced? Let's see...

This move will be judged in isolation probably forever. Even if Larsson does take a big step and turns into a well rounded top pairing D, can always say at the time we should have got more, and that's true. But, it will all be easier to handle if the Oilers are actually a better team.

What really burns is you have a guy in Hall that wanted to be an Oiler for life, you can tell by how bummed he is about it, the guy gave everything he had, nightly, through all the crap years when most star players want out of the franchise, or give up.

You can't dismiss the value of that loyalty to a franchise, now we have a generic NHL defenseman, who Chiarelli says he "believes" in. What I can't believe is he didn't at least get any draft picks thrown in there. Weak.

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674035 is a reply to message #674024 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 19:05

rjayd2
Messages: 20
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 18:45

Ragnarok73 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 18:41

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 18:34

Everyone is so mad that I'm really excited to see how this all plays out next year :)

Maybe it's a good sign that Chia is doing what is needed when so many fans are enraged with this move. Will they be as unhappy when the signings of Lucic and Demers are announced? Let's see...

This move will be judged in isolation probably forever. Even if Larsson does take a big step and turns into a well rounded top pairing D, can always say at the time we should have got more, and that's true. But, it will all be easier to handle if the Oilers are actually a better team.

Exactly -- becoming a better team is all should matter not the names of the back of the sweaters.

And on that note I cringe at the thought of this fan base mercilessly piling on Larsson because of their hurt feelings of losing their man crush Hall. This guy deserves our full support and every ounce of encouragement possible. If anyone or someone you know has any active plans to hate on (ie boo at the games etc) possibly our most important acquisition in recent memory then you're a selfish, petty imbecile and not a true fan of the team.

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674036 is a reply to message #674035 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 19:14

NetBOG
Messages: 2951
Registered: January 2006
Location: Parts Unknown

2 Cups

rjayd2 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 19:05

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 18:45

Ragnarok73 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 18:41

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 18:34

Everyone is so mad that I'm really excited to see how this all plays out next year :)

Maybe it's a good sign that Chia is doing what is needed when so many fans are enraged with this move. Will they be as unhappy when the signings of Lucic and Demers are announced? Let's see...

This move will be judged in isolation probably forever. Even if Larsson does take a big step and turns into a well rounded top pairing D, can always say at the time we should have got more, and that's true. But, it will all be easier to handle if the Oilers are actually a better team.

Exactly -- becoming a better team is all should matter not the names of the back of the sweaters.

And on that note I cringe at the thought of this fan base mercilessly piling on Larsson because of their hurt feelings of losing their man crush Hall. This guy deserves our full support and every ounce of encouragement possible. If anyone or someone you know has any active plans to hate on (ie boo at the games etc) possibly our most important acquisition in recent memory then you're a selfish, petty imbecile and not a true fan of the team.

I also predict it will be no later than Oct 15 before we get a 'Hall finds redemption ....' thread because Hall scored 2 points in a game.

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674049 is a reply to message #674035 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 19:57

bigEfromGP
Messages: 816
Registered: July 2006
Location: GP, AB

No Cups

rjayd2 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 19:05

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 18:45

Ragnarok73 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 18:41

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 18:34

Everyone is so mad that I'm really excited to see how this all plays out next year :)

Maybe it's a good sign that Chia is doing what is needed when so many fans are enraged with this move. Will they be as unhappy when the signings of Lucic and Demers are announced? Let's see...

This move will be judged in isolation probably forever. Even if Larsson does take a big step and turns into a well rounded top pairing D, can always say at the time we should have got more, and that's true. But, it will all be easier to handle if the Oilers are actually a better team.

Exactly -- becoming a better team is all should matter not the names of the back of the sweaters.

And on that note I cringe at the thought of this fan base mercilessly piling on Larsson because of their hurt feelings of losing their man crush Hall. This guy deserves our full support and every ounce of encouragement possible. If anyone or someone you know has any active plans to hate on (ie boo at the games etc) possibly our most important acquisition in recent memory then you're a selfish, petty imbecile and not a true fan of the team.

Most important acquisition in recent history? What next, you'll proclaim a future Norris winner?

Firstly, how anyone could say that about Larsson in the same week the Oilers got Pulujarvi is beyond me. Secondly, if Larsson is your most important acquisition, then your team ain't making the playoffs.

I see there is still some pails of Koolaid kicking around....

CrusaderPi wrote on Fri, 09 October 2020 13:17

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The president thinks he has the ideal male body.
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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674029 is a reply to message #674023 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 18:53

mightyreasoner
Messages: 520
Registered: October 2005
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

Ragnarok73 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 18:41

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 18:34

Everyone is so mad that I'm really excited to see how this all plays out next year :)

Maybe it's a good sign that Chia is doing what is needed when so many fans are enraged with this move. Will they be as unhappy when the signings of Lucic and Demers are announced? Let's see...

I will. I'm assuming those are already in the bag, more or less.

Bottom line is it was incredibly terrible asset management. The Oilers took an elite player and traded him for a decent one. They traded at .60 cents on the dollar. The trade they made today was awful, and it has absolutely nothing to do with what happens in free agency on Friday.

In short, a bad trade of the player who, until last year, was our best player. No matter how much the media and Oilers spin this to say it was like "Larsson + Lucic" for Hall, there is no causation or correlation. I think they could have had both and still gotten a defenseman of the Larsson calibre.

[Updated on: Wed, 29 June 2016 18:57]

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674031 is a reply to message #674029 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 18:55

Skookum Jim
Messages: 4419
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

4 Cups

mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 17:53

Ragnarok73 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 18:41

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 18:34

Everyone is so mad that I'm really excited to see how this all plays out next year :)

Maybe it's a good sign that Chia is doing what is needed when so many fans are enraged with this move. Will they be as unhappy when the signings of Lucic and Demers are announced? Let's see...

I will. I'm assuming those are already in the bag, more or less.

Bottom line is it was incredibly terrible asset management. The Oilers took an elite player and traded him for a decent one. They traded at .60 cents on the dollar. The trade they made today was awful, and it has absolutely nothing to do with what happens in free agency on Friday.

No truer words.
They could have gotten Hamonic + from Islanders just a few months ago.

And you could have waited over the summer. this whole exercise looks and smells like a panic move done in haste.

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674032 is a reply to message #674023 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 18:55

Suomalainen
Messages: 900
Registered: May 2002
Location: Boulder, CO

No Cups

So I went over to the Flames' board and I'd say the majority aren't happy in the thread there, as they see this as improvement.

I know those miscreants have the hate-on for Hall by thinking he's got low hockey sense and is one-dimensional, but I thought they'd be celebrating.

97.

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674033 is a reply to message #674032 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 18:59

vsove
Messages: 66
Registered: May 2006
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

Suomalainen wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 18:55

So I went over to the Flames' board and I'd say the majority aren't happy in the thread there, as they see this as improvement.

I know those miscreants have the hate-on for Hall by thinking he's got low hockey sense and is one-dimensional, but I thought they'd be celebrating.

I genuinely think we're a better team overall, or will be once the other pieces fall (because if Chiarelli made this trade without having Lucic and Demers locked up, hoooo boy, I'll be the first person riding him out of here on a rail).

But in isolation, this was a trade we didn't win, because we didn't get value for our player.

No Mo' Lowe | Fire McLellan | Fire everyone.

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674025 is a reply to message #673755 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 18:48

Steve
Messages: 113
Registered: October 2006
Location: Ottawa

No Cups

I haven't felt this way since the Pronger trade.

I think the Oilers can still win despite this, if they sign Lucic and a D man that can help the PP, but man. This really sucks. My picture of the Oilers finally winning another Stanley Cup included Taylor Hall. My picture has been shattered.

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."

- Calvin

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674037 is a reply to message #674025 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 19:16

honkerhitter
Messages: 3
Registered: November 2014
Location: Northeast Alberta

No Cups

Despite this trade, I do not believe Lucic will help this team one bit. Other then holding out for a ransom of 7 mil plus, probly over to long of a term . He has his best years behind him and is a sprained ankle away from bring a Nikitn .
His ego isn't a locker room winner either( i guess that could be said for lots of guys) .
This deal has nothing to do with Milan this is straight up one for one and should be judged at face value. FAIL on all points.

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674039 is a reply to message #674037 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 19:27

scotiaoiler
Messages: 15
Registered: April 2006

No Cups

Chiarelli has just gave Lucic all the leverage in a deal now that he has traded Hall. He can now say he will sign someplace else unless he gets 7mill over 7 and old Peter will be stuck cause now he has traded Hall and he will look even dumber in the next few days when he overpays and over terms Lucic. I'm on board if we don't make the play-offs this year the PC should be fired. Think he will find it hard to get work if he is fired from the Oilers. Those looking on the bright side shoulf look at reality and realize we made one of the worst trades in the last 20 years. We don't make the play-offs this year we are the worst team in NHL history. 11 years without.

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674040 is a reply to message #674037 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 19:30

Skookum Jim
Messages: 4419
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

4 Cups

honkerhitter wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 18:16

Despite this trade, I do not believe Lucic will help this team one bit. Other then holding out for a ransom of 7 mil plus, probly over to long of a term . He has his best years behind him and is a sprained ankle away from bring a Nikitn .
His ego isn't a locker room winner either( i guess that could be said for lots of guys) .
This deal has nothing to do with Milan this is straight up one for one and should be judged at face value. FAIL on all points.

That'll be the icing, clear all the room to land Lucic, and he doesn't measure up to Oiler management expectations, or beliefs, you not only lose huge cap space, you lost a franchise asset in Hall as well.

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674038 is a reply to message #673755 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 19:23

Skookum Jim
Messages: 4419
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

4 Cups

Scott Cullen article on trade.

http://www.tsn.ca/statistically-speaking-oilers-don-t-get-ne arly-enough-for-hall-1.517957

Quote:

The Devils Get: LW Taylor Hall
Hall, 24, has been one of the best offensive wingers in the league. Not in a, “Hey, he’s pretty good,” kind of way, but more like, “Wow, this guy is a superstar!” Over the past four seasons, here are the leaders in points per 60 during 5-on-5 play:

TOP 5-ON-5 SCORERS, 2012-2013 TO 2015-2016
PLAYER TEAM POS PTS/60
Sidney Crosby Pittsburgh C 2.71
Jamie Benn Dallas LW 2.54
Taylor Hall Edmonton LW 2.49
Ryan Getzlaf Anaheim C 2.42
Vladimir Tarasenko St. Louis RW 2.42
Tyler Seguin Dallas C 2.41
Patrick Kane Chicago RW 2.41
Corey Perry Anaheim RW 2.36
Matt Duchene Colorado C 2.32
Rick Nash N.Y. Rangers LW 2.31

Keep in mind, that Hall put up these numbers on a team that controlled less than 47% of 5-on-5 shot attempts during that four-year period, so putting up elite scoring numbers in that situation is remarkable.
In New Jersey, Hall is an instant upgrade for the league’s lowest-scoring team last season. He was a junior linemate of current Devils centre Adam Henrique, and Henrique is coming off a season in which he scored a career-high 30 goals and 50 points. While the Devils lack great offensive talent, they have some pieces to complement Hall, including Henrique, Mike Cammalleri and Kyle Palmieri.
Signed for a $6-million cap hit, Hall is under contract for four more seasons and he’ll be a cornerstone piece for the Devils as they try to get into playoff contention.
The Devils will need to find some help on the blueline, as it was already a relatively thin group, but can likely look to Damon Severson to take on a bigger role on the right side next season now that Larsson is gone.

The Oilers Get: D Adam Larsson
Larsson is a 23-year-old blueliner who struggled to fit in after he was taken with the fourth overall pick in the 2011 Draft, but then started getting more significant ice time part way through the 2014-2015 season.
He’s not a big scorer, managing a career-high 24 points in 64 games in 2014-2015, and has been a mediocre possession player.
Admittedly, Larsson has taken on tougher assignments while partnered with Andy Greene, but that duo was buried last season, with the Devils controlling just 43.8% of 5-on-5 shot attempts when they were partners.
In Edmonton, the Oilers will need Larsson to play big minutes. He can play the right side, alongside Oskar Klefbom, on Edmonton’s top pair, which ought to improve Edmonton’s defence (it’s hard to get worse, right?). It’s just difficult to imagine how it will improve the team overall.
Larsson is signed for five more seasons, at a cap hit of $4,166,666. There is a little cost savings when compared to Hall’s contract, but nowhere close to addressing the relative impact that each player has on the game.

Verdict: This is a landslide win for New Jersey. Even if the Edmonton Oilers are, as rumoured, poised to sign left winger Milan Lucic as a free agent, there is no justification for the Oilers to only get Larsson in return for Hall. Strictly in terms of asset management, it’s unacceptable.

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674041 is a reply to message #674038 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 19:36

halfafrog
Messages: 63
Registered: March 2006
Location: Scottsdale, AZ

No Cups

Larsson isn't exactly a dog. He isn't second paring either it doesn't look like. We really have to wait and see. You can't measure chemistry either. Some have said he is a lot like Nick Lidstrom and I can certainly live with 75% of that.

http://www.allaboutthejersey.com/2016/2/12/10974744/new-top- dog-adam-larsson

http://lowetide.ca/2016/06/29/adam-larsson/

So this is what hope feels like?

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674043 is a reply to message #674041 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 19:42

ChasinStanley
Messages: 30
Registered: December 2003
Location: in the shadow of a large ...

No Cups

people are all over his points total but look at his +/- +15 on a team that was -24. He's also never been on the PP and has not had the weapons we have to pass to. if he can get the puck up and out he doesn't need to be getting points from rushing it up the ice or been set up on the point all night. I'll be much happier not seeing a firedrill in the Edmonton end every time the opposition crosses the blue line that Hall cutting to the outside and getting knocked over.

Renaissance 2015

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