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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673851 is a reply to message #673839 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 14:31

TheJesman
Messages: 8
Registered: February 2013
Location: Detroit

No Cups

Team Dean wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:24

Fire Chia now.

He is a total idiot. This is the worst trade I have ever seen.
The #1LW in the game, for a guy who is not even good? Fayne is better than Larsson. No debate on that.

Besides Fayne being better than Larsson...I agree 100% w/ everything you said

Adam Larsson 23
RNHopkins 23
Nail Yakupov 22
Oscar Klefbom 22
Darnell Nurse 21
Leon Draisaitl 20
Connor McDavid 19
Jesse Puljujarvi 18

The future looks bright...

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673853 is a reply to message #673851 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 14:33

Red Rage
Messages: 66
Registered: June 2002
Location: ETOWN

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I think Larsson's value is what we paid for Reinhart.

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673858 is a reply to message #673853 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 14:43

Mike
Messages: 1409
Registered: August 2005
Location: Moncton, New Brunswick

1 Cup

Red Rage wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 17:33

I think Larsson's value is what we paid for Reinhart.

Big overpayment last year for Reinhart, absolutely stupid overpayment for Larsson this year.

Dougie Hamilton for for a couple of picks, but Adam freaking Larsson costs Taylor Hall? Insanity.

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673870 is a reply to message #673858 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 14:48

Adam
Messages: 7191
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Mike wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:43

Red Rage wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 17:33

I think Larsson's value is what we paid for Reinhart.

Big overpayment last year for Reinhart, absolutely stupid overpayment for Larsson this year.

Dougie Hamilton for for a couple of picks, but Adam freaking Larsson costs Taylor Hall? Insanity.

Yeah, that shows how clueless our organization is at reading player values.

I thought NUGENT-HOPKINS was an overpayment for Larsson.

Don't worry though, Stauffer says it's okay because Larsson is a right shot defenceman and can play 21-22 minutes a night.

What a joke. I'm absolutely livid.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673874 is a reply to message #673858 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 14:50

TheJesman
Messages: 8
Registered: February 2013
Location: Detroit

No Cups

Mike wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:43

Red Rage wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 17:33

I think Larsson's value is what we paid for Reinhart.

Big overpayment last year for Reinhart, absolutely stupid overpayment for Larsson this year.

Dougie Hamilton for for a couple of picks, but Adam freaking Larsson costs Taylor Hall? Insanity.

Oh man....these facts are very depressing, haha I came to the forum looking for someone to shine some light on this trade ANY light...but PC you really effed up this time. Man just when i was forgetting about the Reinhart deal...smh

Adam Larsson 23
RNHopkins 23
Nail Yakupov 22
Oscar Klefbom 22
Darnell Nurse 21
Leon Draisaitl 20
Connor McDavid 19
Jesse Puljujarvi 18

The future looks bright...

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673840 is a reply to message #673836 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 14:25

Treads
Messages: 4
Registered: January 2006
Location: Calgary (which sucks)

No Cups

Agree it's tough to swallow- but in terms of what the Oilers needed I'm not sure there was a better deal out there. If Subban went straight up for Weber, what would that have cost us? Hall plus the #4 at least. If you think about it from asset management POV, then you deal $6m in cap, get a top flight RW (Poolparty) and a #2/3 Dman and in the short term you get a little over a million in cap space. If Lucic signs then it gets a little more complicated but I think you have to do these deals at some point in the life of a team like the Oil.

Faster than Pronger's retreat
More powerful than David Frost's Ego,
Able to leap small d-men in a single bound...

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673846 is a reply to message #673840 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 14:27

Team Dean
Messages: 22
Registered: April 2010
Location: Central Alberta

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Let me remind you that Garth Snow acquired two top dmen for picks! Picks!

He didnt have to trade Tavares!

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673848 is a reply to message #673846 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 14:28

Prince Albert 1
Messages: 33
Registered: February 2006
Location: Prince Albert,Sk

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Team Dean wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:27

Let me remind you that Garth Snow acquired two top dmen for picks! Picks!

He didnt have to trade Tavares!

For the 1st time ever I will agree with Team Dean. Another tough day for Oiler fans.

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673845 is a reply to message #673836 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 14:26

Prince Albert 1
Messages: 33
Registered: February 2006
Location: Prince Albert,Sk

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George wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:20

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:15

Any dirt being released on Hall yet? Slept with a teammates wife? McDavid said he was a jerk? Management heard him snorting something in a washroom? Or just the old lockerroom cancer thing?

I'm sure we're going to hear this from Stauffer and others in the following days as people try to put a positive spin on the trade...

Even if it were 100% true, the trade is still awful.

There will be dirt your right. Your also right this is still a terrible trade. Even on this forum full of differing opinions especially on Taylor Hall I doubt you will find anybody to say that this is a good deal.

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673854 is a reply to message #673755 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 14:35

vsove
Messages: 66
Registered: May 2006
Location: Edmonton

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I think Larsson is actually a very good d-man, and is going to turn out to be one of the pieces we needed, but I still think that for Hall, you should be getting more.

In terms of what the team needs, the trade makes sense. In terms of what you get for Taylor Hall? You at least need -something- more than Larsson.

No Mo' Lowe | Fire McLellan | Fire everyone.

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673857 is a reply to message #673854 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 14:42

ryanc182
Messages: 13
Registered: July 2008
Location: Red Deer

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Rumour has it Klowe is behind this. He wants #4 retired.

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673859 is a reply to message #673857 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 14:43

mazankowski
Messages: 27
Registered: June 2006
Location: Kelowna BC

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Did anyone hear Stauffer say St Louis wanted Hall and #4 for the big one. I can only assume that's Petro. Hmmmmm......

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673861 is a reply to message #673859 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 14:44

Skoobz
Messages: 334
Registered: January 2006

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Chiarelli is nervous as hell in this presser. Stammering. Weird posture.

Something weird is going on here.

"[It was] really cool to throw on the Oilers gear, the gear that I want to play the rest of my life wearing. It was pretty cool to put it on. With all the history, it was a lot of fun." - Connor McDavid, July 1, 2015

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673863 is a reply to message #673861 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 14:45

mazankowski
Messages: 27
Registered: June 2006
Location: Kelowna BC

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Skoobz wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 13:44

Chiarelli is nervous as hell in this presser. Stammering. Weird posture.

Something weird is going on here.

Did Hall wheel his daughter or something?

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673872 is a reply to message #673861 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 14:49

Adam
Messages: 7191
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

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Skoobz wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:44

Chiarelli is nervous as hell in this presser. Stammering. Weird posture.

Something weird is going on here.

What are they saying? Are the media actually grilling him? Or is it all softballs?

I know that Rishaug was tweeting his support for the deal shortly after it happened...

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673877 is a reply to message #673872 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 14:51

Skoobz
Messages: 334
Registered: January 2006

No Cups

Adam wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:49

Skoobz wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:44

Chiarelli is nervous as hell in this presser. Stammering. Weird posture.

Something weird is going on here.

What are they saying? Are the media actually grilling him? Or is it all softballs?

I know that Rishaug was tweeting his support for the deal shortly after it happened...

They are going at him pretty hard. Trying to get him to say he's got Lucic in the bag is a big theme. I believe Spector actually asked him if this was a "Default deal", and he got pretty fidgety.

"[It was] really cool to throw on the Oilers gear, the gear that I want to play the rest of my life wearing. It was pretty cool to put it on. With all the history, it was a lot of fun." - Connor McDavid, July 1, 2015

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673882 is a reply to message #673872 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 14:54

George
Messages: 6
Registered: October 2009

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- Chia points out that Draisaitl can play wing so there's flexibility.

- denies this was anything other than a hockey trade (i.e., suggests there was no locker room issues).

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673885 is a reply to message #673882 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 14:56

vsove
Messages: 66
Registered: May 2006
Location: Edmonton

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George wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:54

- Chia points out that Draisaitl can play wing so there's flexibility.

- denies this was anything other than a hockey trade (i.e., suggests there was no locker room issues).

Credit to Chiarelli for not throwing Hall under the bus (The MacT version of this press conference would absolutely have a note about how Hall wasn't the right fit and how we needed a fresh presence in the locker room).

That being said, there's been enough smoke from various sources that I have to think there's a little fire. And I don't know anyone who's ever had a good interaction with Hall.

Again, from a purely 'did we get a player we need', I'm okay with this trade.

But if you can't get better value for Hall than this, even if the actual players involved in the trade make sense, I have to question your ability as a GM.

No Mo' Lowe | Fire McLellan | Fire everyone.

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673860 is a reply to message #673857 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 14:44

smyth260
Messages: 1087
Registered: November 2007

1 Cup

That can't be true. Ask Taylor to change his number then, instead of trading away your best forward outside McDavid.

Clean house or bust

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674048 is a reply to message #673860 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 19:55

ryanc182
Messages: 13
Registered: July 2008
Location: Red Deer

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I was joking...

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673862 is a reply to message #673854 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 14:45

spoonful
Messages: 13
Registered: April 2008
Location: Edmonton

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vsove wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:35

I think Larsson is actually a very good d-man, and is going to turn out to be one of the pieces we needed, but I still think that for Hall, you should be getting more.

In terms of what the team needs, the trade makes sense. In terms of what you get for Taylor Hall? You at least need -something- more than Larsson.

I completely agree with you.

The Edmonton Oilers - "Craig's on it"

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673909 is a reply to message #673862 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:11

Jakey
Messages: 40
Registered: November 2007
Location: Leduc

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spoonful wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:45

vsove wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:35

I think Larsson is actually a very good d-man, and is going to turn out to be one of the pieces we needed, but I still think that for Hall, you should be getting more.

In terms of what the team needs, the trade makes sense. In terms of what you get for Taylor Hall? You at least need -something- more than Larsson.

I completely agree with you.

Ya agreed as well. Just am shocked like everyone around here we couldn't have squeezed more out of NJ. Something like a 2nd Rd pick next year even would make us all feel a little better. I guess if you are NJ think about trading your #1 Dman with upside (most agree to that) that is locked in for another 5-6 years and is pretty dirt cheap at just over $4 million/year. It would take a lot for me to move that kind of Dman & Chiarelli said in his pressed that getting a righty/lefty top pairing guy was "critical". So it is done & hope that the balance of the team is better positioned to hopefully make the playoffs next year. We'll wait & see I guess.

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673865 is a reply to message #673755 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 14:46

stotto
Messages: 49
Registered: November 2015
Location: edmonton

No Cups

Brutal.
This has mismanagement written all over it.
The Oilers are bad team and without Hall they are much worse.

Hard to fathom this deal unless we get something else in return besides Larsson.

I hope Chia knows what he's doing.

I wish Hall much success and hope he gets 120 points for the Devils

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673869 is a reply to message #673755 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 14:47

vsove
Messages: 66
Registered: May 2006
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

It feels weird to be even slightly defending a move the Oilers have made.

I wonder if I actually feel okay about this or if I've just gotten very good at talking myself off the ledge.

No Mo' Lowe | Fire McLellan | Fire everyone.

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673873 is a reply to message #673755 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 14:49

Kr55
Messages: 10866
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

So, now that we have Larsson and just have to deal with it. Just a look at how he was used last year and how he performed.

His deployment was extremely defensive, with Andy Greene.

31.8% offensive zone starts. He has 44.1% Corsi with Greene.

Away from Greene, he had 48.4% Corsi% with 31.8% offensive zone starts.

Greene without Larsson had 41.7% Corsi% with 22.7% offensive zone starts.

So, little bit encouraging, Larsson without Greene did better than Greene without Larsson. Not huge sample sizes though (~200 mins apart each vs 1200 mins together)

Larsson and Greene would play ~19 mins per game ES and ~3:20 per game SH. Neither got any PP time. The only year Larsson got any consistent PP time was his first season with the Devils. Seems his deployment was all over the place his first 3 years, but the last 2 he has been used purely as a shutdown D.

So, I guess we'll see if he has more in him than just starting in his own end all night long and if he can take advantage of playing with some fast and talented forwards for once.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673876 is a reply to message #673873 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 14:51

vsove
Messages: 66
Registered: May 2006
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:49

So, now that we have Larsson and just have to deal with it. Just a look at how he was used last year and how he performed.

His deployment was extremely defensive, with Andy Greene.

31.8% offensive zone starts. He has 44.1% Corsi with Greene.

Away from Greene, he had 48.4% Corsi% with 31.8% offensive zone starts.

Greene without Larsson had 41.7% Corsi% with 22.7% offensive zone starts.

So, little bit encouraging, Larsson without Greene did better than Greene without Larsson. Not huge sample sizes though (~200 mins apart each vs 1200 mins together)

Larsson and Greene would play ~19 mins per game ES and ~3:20 per game SH. Neither got any PP time. The only year Larsson got any consistent PP time was his first season with the Devils. Seems his deployment was all over the place his first 3 years, but the last 2 he has been used purely as a shutdown D.

So, I guess we'll see if he has more in him than just starting in his own end all night long and if he can take advantage of playing with some fast and talented forwards for once.

Jersey was dead last in the league for scoring, so I'm not too concerned about any of his offensive numbers at the moment (though Edmonton wasn't that far behind).

I just still don't get how you trade away Taylor Hall and only get Adam Larsson.

'But what about the cap space?' Unless Jersey is actually giving us the cap space it means literally nothing.

No Mo' Lowe | Fire McLellan | Fire everyone.

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673878 is a reply to message #673876 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 14:52

Adam
Messages: 7191
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

vsove wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:51

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:49

So, now that we have Larsson and just have to deal with it. Just a look at how he was used last year and how he performed.

His deployment was extremely defensive, with Andy Greene.

31.8% offensive zone starts. He has 44.1% Corsi with Greene.

Away from Greene, he had 48.4% Corsi% with 31.8% offensive zone starts.

Greene without Larsson had 41.7% Corsi% with 22.7% offensive zone starts.

So, little bit encouraging, Larsson without Greene did better than Greene without Larsson. Not huge sample sizes though (~200 mins apart each vs 1200 mins together)

Larsson and Greene would play ~19 mins per game ES and ~3:20 per game SH. Neither got any PP time. The only year Larsson got any consistent PP time was his first season with the Devils. Seems his deployment was all over the place his first 3 years, but the last 2 he has been used purely as a shutdown D.

So, I guess we'll see if he has more in him than just starting in his own end all night long and if he can take advantage of playing with some fast and talented forwards for once.

Jersey was dead last in the league for scoring, so I'm not too concerned about any of his offensive numbers at the moment (though Edmonton wasn't that far behind).

I just still don't get how you trade away Taylor Hall and only get Adam Larsson.

'But what about the cap space?' Unless Jersey is actually giving us the cap space it means literally nothing.

FFS, at least take their next couple #1 picks. That's a panicked deal. Chiarelli panicked (again) and made a horrible trade.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673879 is a reply to message #673878 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 14:54

vsove
Messages: 66
Registered: May 2006
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

Adam wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:52

vsove wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:51

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:49

So, now that we have Larsson and just have to deal with it. Just a look at how he was used last year and how he performed.

His deployment was extremely defensive, with Andy Greene.

31.8% offensive zone starts. He has 44.1% Corsi with Greene.

Away from Greene, he had 48.4% Corsi% with 31.8% offensive zone starts.

Greene without Larsson had 41.7% Corsi% with 22.7% offensive zone starts.

So, little bit encouraging, Larsson without Greene did better than Greene without Larsson. Not huge sample sizes though (~200 mins apart each vs 1200 mins together)

Larsson and Greene would play ~19 mins per game ES and ~3:20 per game SH. Neither got any PP time. The only year Larsson got any consistent PP time was his first season with the Devils. Seems his deployment was all over the place his first 3 years, but the last 2 he has been used purely as a shutdown D.

So, I guess we'll see if he has more in him than just starting in his own end all night long and if he can take advantage of playing with some fast and talented forwards for once.

Jersey was dead last in the league for scoring, so I'm not too concerned about any of his offensive numbers at the moment (though Edmonton wasn't that far behind).

I just still don't get how you trade away Taylor Hall and only get Adam Larsson.

'But what about the cap space?' Unless Jersey is actually giving us the cap space it means literally nothing.

FFS, at least take their next couple #1 picks. That's a panicked deal. Chiarelli panicked (again) and made a horrible trade.

Hall for Larsson and next year's 1st+ - Okay, I think we all knew we'd be losing Hall someday and while I'm sad to see him go, at least Larsson is a player that fills a need.

Hall for Larsson, and nothing else, is just mind boggling.

I don't think this makes our team significantly worse in the long run, but it stinks of asset mismanagement.

No Mo' Lowe | Fire McLellan | Fire everyone.

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673880 is a reply to message #673878 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 14:54

Kr55
Messages: 10866
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:52

vsove wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:51

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:49

So, now that we have Larsson and just have to deal with it. Just a look at how he was used last year and how he performed.

His deployment was extremely defensive, with Andy Greene.

31.8% offensive zone starts. He has 44.1% Corsi with Greene.

Away from Greene, he had 48.4% Corsi% with 31.8% offensive zone starts.

Greene without Larsson had 41.7% Corsi% with 22.7% offensive zone starts.

So, little bit encouraging, Larsson without Greene did better than Greene without Larsson. Not huge sample sizes though (~200 mins apart each vs 1200 mins together)

Larsson and Greene would play ~19 mins per game ES and ~3:20 per game SH. Neither got any PP time. The only year Larsson got any consistent PP time was his first season with the Devils. Seems his deployment was all over the place his first 3 years, but the last 2 he has been used purely as a shutdown D.

So, I guess we'll see if he has more in him than just starting in his own end all night long and if he can take advantage of playing with some fast and talented forwards for once.

Jersey was dead last in the league for scoring, so I'm not too concerned about any of his offensive numbers at the moment (though Edmonton wasn't that far behind).

I just still don't get how you trade away Taylor Hall and only get Adam Larsson.

'But what about the cap space?' Unless Jersey is actually giving us the cap space it means literally nothing.

FFS, at least take their next couple #1 picks. That's a panicked deal. Chiarelli panicked (again) and made a horrible trade.

Chia said GM's positions were softening. Wow, I wonder what the original ask was for Larsson then. McDavid?

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673886 is a reply to message #673880 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 14:58

Adam
Messages: 7191
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:54

Adam wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:52

vsove wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:51

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:49

So, now that we have Larsson and just have to deal with it. Just a look at how he was used last year and how he performed.

His deployment was extremely defensive, with Andy Greene.

31.8% offensive zone starts. He has 44.1% Corsi with Greene.

Away from Greene, he had 48.4% Corsi% with 31.8% offensive zone starts.

Greene without Larsson had 41.7% Corsi% with 22.7% offensive zone starts.

So, little bit encouraging, Larsson without Greene did better than Greene without Larsson. Not huge sample sizes though (~200 mins apart each vs 1200 mins together)

Larsson and Greene would play ~19 mins per game ES and ~3:20 per game SH. Neither got any PP time. The only year Larsson got any consistent PP time was his first season with the Devils. Seems his deployment was all over the place his first 3 years, but the last 2 he has been used purely as a shutdown D.

So, I guess we'll see if he has more in him than just starting in his own end all night long and if he can take advantage of playing with some fast and talented forwards for once.

Jersey was dead last in the league for scoring, so I'm not too concerned about any of his offensive numbers at the moment (though Edmonton wasn't that far behind).

I just still don't get how you trade away Taylor Hall and only get Adam Larsson.

'But what about the cap space?' Unless Jersey is actually giving us the cap space it means literally nothing.

FFS, at least take their next couple #1 picks. That's a panicked deal. Chiarelli panicked (again) and made a horrible trade.

Chia said GM's positions were softening. Wow, I wonder what the original ask was for Larsson then. McDavid?

Hall, Nuge and the fourth overall pick?

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673889 is a reply to message #673886 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 14:59

Magnum
Messages: 839
Registered: June 2009
Location: Rogers' Arena > Banff

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Adam wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:58

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:54

Adam wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:52

vsove wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:51

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:49

So, now that we have Larsson and just have to deal with it. Just a look at how he was used last year and how he performed.

His deployment was extremely defensive, with Andy Greene.

31.8% offensive zone starts. He has 44.1% Corsi with Greene.

Away from Greene, he had 48.4% Corsi% with 31.8% offensive zone starts.

Greene without Larsson had 41.7% Corsi% with 22.7% offensive zone starts.

So, little bit encouraging, Larsson without Greene did better than Greene without Larsson. Not huge sample sizes though (~200 mins apart each vs 1200 mins together)

Larsson and Greene would play ~19 mins per game ES and ~3:20 per game SH. Neither got any PP time. The only year Larsson got any consistent PP time was his first season with the Devils. Seems his deployment was all over the place his first 3 years, but the last 2 he has been used purely as a shutdown D.

So, I guess we'll see if he has more in him than just starting in his own end all night long and if he can take advantage of playing with some fast and talented forwards for once.

Jersey was dead last in the league for scoring, so I'm not too concerned about any of his offensive numbers at the moment (though Edmonton wasn't that far behind).

I just still don't get how you trade away Taylor Hall and only get Adam Larsson.

'But what about the cap space?' Unless Jersey is actually giving us the cap space it means literally nothing.

FFS, at least take their next couple #1 picks. That's a panicked deal. Chiarelli panicked (again) and made a horrible trade.

Chia said GM's positions were softening. Wow, I wonder what the original ask was for Larsson then. McDavid?

Hall, Nuge and the fourth overall pick?

McDavid to the team that signs Gryba?

2015/2016 - This Kool-Aid tastes like McDavid flavoured Drain-O.
2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.
2017/2018 - I'm drinking this Kool-Aid, in hopes that it's Drain-O.
2018/2019 - Another round of Drain-O, good sir!

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673894 is a reply to message #673886 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:02

Leia
Messages: 413
Registered: May 2003
Location: England

No Cups

How long before the club announce we are going to raise Lowe's jersey to the rafters in November? Lowe's probably asked for him to be traded so there was no issues with the number 4.

Seriously this deal sucks, not sure in what reality we don't get picks back on this. Chia has just waffled away through that presser, he looked flustered and didn't seem to want to be there. I think he knows that for the time being he's not going to be very popular.

Take me home, country road
to the place where I belong
to Alberta, to see the Oilers
take me home, country road

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673888 is a reply to message #673880 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 14:59

Prince Albert 1
Messages: 33
Registered: February 2006
Location: Prince Albert,Sk

No Cups

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:54

Adam wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:52

vsove wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:51

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:49

So, now that we have Larsson and just have to deal with it. Just a look at how he was used last year and how he performed.

His deployment was extremely defensive, with Andy Greene.

31.8% offensive zone starts. He has 44.1% Corsi with Greene.

Away from Greene, he had 48.4% Corsi% with 31.8% offensive zone starts.

Greene without Larsson had 41.7% Corsi% with 22.7% offensive zone starts.

So, little bit encouraging, Larsson without Greene did better than Greene without Larsson. Not huge sample sizes though (~200 mins apart each vs 1200 mins together)

Larsson and Greene would play ~19 mins per game ES and ~3:20 per game SH. Neither got any PP time. The only year Larsson got any consistent PP time was his first season with the Devils. Seems his deployment was all over the place his first 3 years, but the last 2 he has been used purely as a shutdown D.

So, I guess we'll see if he has more in him than just starting in his own end all night long and if he can take advantage of playing with some fast and talented forwards for once.

Jersey was dead last in the league for scoring, so I'm not too concerned about any of his offensive numbers at the moment (though Edmonton wasn't that far behind).

I just still don't get how you trade away Taylor Hall and only get Adam Larsson.

'But what about the cap space?' Unless Jersey is actually giving us the cap space it means literally nothing.

FFS, at least take their next couple #1 picks. That's a panicked deal. Chiarelli panicked (again) and made a horrible trade.

Chia said GM's positions were softening. Wow, I wonder what the original ask was for Larsson then. McDavid?

I can't watch the presser as I'm at work. Are Edmonton's finest media personnel atleast putting the gears to Chiarelli a little bit?

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673890 is a reply to message #673888 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:00

Magnum
Messages: 839
Registered: June 2009
Location: Rogers' Arena > Banff

No Cups

Is this worse that the Petry trade?

Does anyone miss Tambo's patience?

2015/2016 - This Kool-Aid tastes like McDavid flavoured Drain-O.
2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.
2017/2018 - I'm drinking this Kool-Aid, in hopes that it's Drain-O.
2018/2019 - Another round of Drain-O, good sir!

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673901 is a reply to message #673890 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:05

mightyreasoner
Messages: 521
Registered: October 2005
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

Magnum wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:00

Is this worse that the Petry trade?

Does anyone miss Tambo's patience?

Yes.

The one thing you can now credit to MacTavish and Tambo is that they never made a trade as bad as the Taylor Hall trade.

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673893 is a reply to message #673888 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:01

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Chia calling Larsson a Hamonic. If he can turn into Hamonic then I can better handle this trade. Not saying I like but if he turns into a 25+ min a night guy like Hamonic, then it might not be so bad. I PRAY this happens.

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673903 is a reply to message #673893 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:08

K.McC#24
Messages: 2834
Registered: March 2004
Location: ALBERTA

2 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:01

Chia calling Larsson a Hamonic. If he can turn into Hamonic then I can better handle this trade. Not saying I like but if he turns into a 25+ min a night guy like Hamonic, then it might not be so bad. I PRAY this happens.

So, this implies that Chiarelli would have dealt Hall straight up for Travis Hamonic??

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673904 is a reply to message #673893 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:09

Prince Albert 1
Messages: 33
Registered: February 2006
Location: Prince Albert,Sk

No Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:01

Chia calling Larsson a Hamonic. If he can turn into Hamonic then I can better handle this trade. Not saying I like but if he turns into a 25+ min a night guy like Hamonic, then it might not be so bad. I PRAY this happens.

Trading Hall straight up for the actual Hamonic would have been a loser trade. For a guy you hope turns into Hamonic? Brutal.

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673906 is a reply to message #673893 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:09

spoonful
Messages: 13
Registered: April 2008
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:01

Chia calling Larsson a Hamonic. If he can turn into Hamonic then I can better handle this trade. Not saying I like but if he turns into a 25+ min a night guy like Hamonic, then it might not be so bad. I PRAY this happens.

Did he say that?

I think Larsson is better than Hamonic right now.

The Edmonton Oilers - "Craig's on it"

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673895 is a reply to message #673880 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:02

ryanc182
Messages: 13
Registered: July 2008
Location: Red Deer

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Taylor Hall is a great player no doubt. Unless Larsson completely lays an egg, this helps us fill a void.

If we were all waiting for the perfect trade to come along where we win hands down, it may never have come. And staying the course as we have for a decade has got us no where. What do you suggest anyone is to do? Larsson is 23, RH and signed for a long time for a very manageable cap hit.

To play devils advocate, to me, Hall is not one of the top LW in the game. His exclusion from the Olympics and the World Cup of Hockey helps that argument. In the last two years, Hall has seen a decline. He only played 53 games 2 years ago with 38 points. Last year a full 82 and only 65 points. He is not irreplaceable.

That being said, I hope he scores 80+ this year, but I don't think he'll do it with the Devils.

Thank you for everything Taylor. Enjoy the Eastern Conference and no longer being run through the boards nightly!

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673911 is a reply to message #673895 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:12

mightyreasoner
Messages: 521
Registered: October 2005
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

ryanc182 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:02

If we were all waiting for the perfect trade to come along where we win hands down, it may never have come. And staying the course as we have for a decade has got us no where. What do you suggest anyone is to do? Larsson is 23, RH and signed for a long time for a very manageable cap hit.

This seems to be a common refrain I keep hearing.

There's a big difference between waiting to 'win' a trade and waiting to get fair value in a trade. There are trades made that are mutually beneficial. When you are trading a franchise player, one of the top scoring wingers in the league, a guy who drive the play on his line... that should be the minimum benchmark, IMO.

Again, nothing against Larsson... but he's worth closer to Eberle or RNH.

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