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Hall of Fame Selections [message #837100]	Wed, 26 June 2024 09:28

Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GQ8aqAlXQAAOBUb?format=jpg&name=large

Some thoughts:

1) Campbell's selection is an absolute joke. First of all, he's still working in the league office. Why is he getting honoured at the same time as he's still working? Is there really no one else who contributed more to the game of hockey who isn't working as a current National Hockey League VP?

Not to mention, given all the scandals around this guy, it seems like just the most tone-deaf selection since Gil Stein. Just a terrible, terrible selection. The NHL has been completely roasted on twitter about this, but the league doesn't really care to listen to their fans. They believe they know best, which is one of the reasons that Campbell is still a VP and the league still does so many stupid things.

2) Shea Weber was a good player, but he seems pretty borderline for an almost direct admit. Never won a Cup. Never won a Norris. He's 48th in all-timer defence scoring (589 points in 1038 games) and the other guys around him on that list are:
Dan Boyle
Garry Galley
Ron Greschner
Keith Yandle
Teppo Numminen
Roman Hamrlik
James Patrick

Based on this, John Carlson should be a shoo-in, with 75 more points in 29 less games but if he was retired right now, I don't think he'd be as automatic. Even though he won a Cup (and again, played a significant role in that win). Weber didn't win anything other than Olympic gold. Definitely the prototype defenceman for a lot of media guys though.

Here's a few guys I think have at least as strong a case as Weber:
G. Suter - 844 pts in 1145 games (15th), 1 Cup
S. Gonchar - 811 pts in 1301 games (18th), 1 Cup
M. Duchesne - 752 pts in 1113 games (22nd), 1 Cup
M. Schneider - 743 pts in 1289 games (23rd), 1 Cup
D. Babych - 723 pts in 1195 games (28th), no Cups
R. Larson - 686 pts in 909 games (30th), no Cups

The only one of those I've even heard of getting a look is Sergei Gonchar.

The other challenge with Weber is that he isn't officially retired. He's still on LTIR for Utah HC for another couple of years. If you're still collecting cheques from an insurance company, then should you really be eligible for the Hall?

3) Roenick is deserving as the highest scoring retired player not in the Hall yet, but is a little surprising as his podcast indiscretions aren't that long ago. The NHL has given him great cover though by putting him through with Colin Campbell. What's a little misogyny next to actual corruption and incompetence?

4) Poile was around the game a long time...which seems to be the biggest thing for executives. 40 years of GM experience is a LOT. Not a lot of success in that time - one trip to the Finals in 40 years isn't amazing. But not a lot of guys last THAT long in the league so it's something. Of the NHL people on this list, he's a better selection than Weber, and waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than Colin bleeping Campbell.

5) Datsyuk is a great pick. I don't know enough about the other two to comment.

[Updated on: Wed, 26 June 2024 09:31]

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Hall of Fame Selections [message #837101 is a reply to message #837100 ]	Wed, 26 June 2024 11:02

Kr55
Messages: 10770
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Campbell's son wins his second cup, now in management, thanks to a slushy tackle fest with Campbell's refs all throwing the rule book out the window.

Plus a HHoF induction.

What a great week for Colin

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Re: Hall of Fame Selections [message #837105 is a reply to message #837100 ]	Wed, 26 June 2024 12:37

inverno76
Messages: 2343
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

https://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/ alex-mogilny-snubbed-again-hockey-hall-of-fame-shocker

I’ve been wanting to see Mogilny and Cujo inducted for some time now. This article piggybacks on your comments and brings to mind Elias and his resume.

I didn’t realize that Roenick never won an individual award or had a 1st or 2nd allstar award. Odd inclusion when you break down his career and hold it up against others.

Campbell got the good soldier award. Good for him. Hockey is a tight knit community and if you are a have, you often get.

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Re: Hall of Fame Selections [message #837108 is a reply to message #837105 ]	Wed, 26 June 2024 14:31

Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 26 June 2024 12:37

Good soldier who's also crooked as a barrel of fishhooks!

W/r/t Roenick, he is 47th all-time in points with 513-703-1216 in 1,363 games. There are only six guys in the top 50 who aren't in the Hall, and five of those guys (Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, Kane & Kopitar) are still playing. The only other is Bernie Nicholls, and I feel like that could happen in a future lean year. If Roenick hadn't made a bunch of really dumb comments when he got a little over-comfortable on a podcast, he probably would've been in a couple years ago.

Curtis Joseph is an interesting one. I recently did an Andy Moog post ( https://oilfans.com/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=49375&s tart=0&rid=1325&SQ=fd141c0635644af73e106d9ea873bb6e) and goalies are criminally under-represented. There should definitely be more in the Hall, so we could see a couple years like last where the HHOF selection committee tries to remedy that by putting a few forward.

Cujo is seventh in all-time wins, with 454 in 943 games. Everyone else in the top 12 is in the Hall already. He's just 5 behind Lundqvist, 59 ahead of Vernon and 85 up on Barrasso to compare to last year's group.

Little worse off in playoffs since he never went too deep, but still 14th overall with 63 wins in 133 games. The only ones ahead of him on the all-time list not in the Hall are active guys Fleury, Vasilevskiy plus Chris Osgood and Andy Moog (both of whom I think have good resumes for the Hall too). He's got almost identical playoff record to Lundqvist and only slightly worse than Barrasso. Vernon is 14 wins ahead of him on just 5 more appearances so he loses there.

As far as I can guess, the only thing that's kept Cujo out of the Hall is his failure to win a Cup or major tournament as starter. He also never got his name on the Vezina or Jennings for what that's worth.

Interesting question for the Oilers though - if Curtis Joseph was inducted in the Hall of Fame, does he get his number retired? Certainly had some of his biggest moments as an Edmonton Oiler, but he was only here for three years before leaving for greener pastures via free agency, kind of screwing over the team. Good news is that you wouldn't have to take a number out of circulation to retire it - just get to do #31 a second time...

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Hall of Fame Selections [message #837120 is a reply to message #837105 ]	Wed, 26 June 2024 17:02

Skookum Jim
Messages: 4419
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

4 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 26 June 2024 11:37

I’ve been wanting to see Mogilny and Cujo inducted for some time now. This article piggybacks on your comments and brings to mind Elias and his resume.

I agree.. Mogilny deserves to be in.

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Re: Hall of Fame Selections [message #837112 is a reply to message #837100 ]	Wed, 26 June 2024 15:18

Rutuu
Messages: 144
Registered: March 2011
Location: Brisbane

No Cups

Campbell - 71yrs old
Bettman - 72yrs old - was also showing visible signs of Parkinson's during that SC presentation
Daly - 60yrs old - should be planning his retirement, not talking about his ascension to commissioner

They put the "old" in old boys club.

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Re: Hall of Fame Selections [message #837114 is a reply to message #837112 ]	Wed, 26 June 2024 15:32

Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Rutuu wrote on Wed, 26 June 2024 15:18

Haha - poor Daly. Spent all his best years thinking he was just a breath away from the captain's chair...he could in the end conceivably retire first.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Hall of Fame Selections [message #837119 is a reply to message #837100 ]	Wed, 26 June 2024 17:00

Skookum Jim
Messages: 4419
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

4 Cups

I agree with almost all selections except C. Campbell..

Weber was stud defensive defenceman his entire career.. he completely erased guys.. not to mention the hardest shot in hockey.. not all HOF defencemen should be Brian Leetch.. Weber deserves to be in.

Surprised there are two (2) USA women inducted and no Canadian.. there is no shortage of Canadian women that deserve to be in the women's category.. never even heard of Wendell-Pohl.. she only played 8 years on the USA team.. mystery.. but what-ever..

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Re: Hall of Fame Selections [message #837168 is a reply to message #837119 ]	Fri, 28 June 2024 08:20

Teammate Avry
Messages: 18
Registered: November 2008
Location: Edmonton/Toronto/Las Vega...

No Cups

The HHOF upholding a cap of two women per class while an unlimited amount of men can go is one of the more absurd things. There's a backlog of deserving women who should be inducted.

A guy who if you turned into a gumbo is a wild mix of sports podcaster/TV reporter and sports writer.

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Re: Hall of Fame Selections [message #837344 is a reply to message #837168 ]	Tue, 02 July 2024 07:26

Hibernia
Messages: 102
Registered: October 1998
Location: Sin John's

No Cups

Teammate Avry wrote on Fri, 28 June 2024 11:50

The HHOF upholding a cap of two women per class while an unlimited amount of men can go is one of the more absurd things. There's a backlog of deserving women who should be inducted.

There isn't an unlimited amount of men that can go in. There's a max of four male players per year inducted. Not sure if there's a limit on builders. When you consider the number of females playing the game vs males, the ratios are pretty good. The women's game is still in it's infancy compared with the male side. By the time the HHOF inducted it's first class the NHL was already 28 years old and there had been other pro leagues prior to that. In some respects, the women's game is just getting to that same levels as the NHL, almost 100 years later. So, that backlog of women that you speak about have competed in a very shallow pool thus far. Perhaps only the elite of the elite should make it yet. As the game grows, hopefully, the women's side will get on par. (Should the PWHL last, Billie Jean King will go in as a builder. How cool would that be?)

What happened to all of my messages? lol (I guess it's been awhile) BlueSky: StefBarnes

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Re: Hall of Fame Selections [message #837357 is a reply to message #837344 ]	Tue, 02 July 2024 13:09

Skookum Jim
Messages: 4419
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

4 Cups

Hibernia wrote on Tue, 02 July 2024 06:26

Teammate Avry wrote on Fri, 28 June 2024 11:50

The HHOF upholding a cap of two women per class while an unlimited amount of men can go is one of the more absurd things. There's a backlog of deserving women who should be inducted.

Tend to agree, the pool of women playing hockey internationally is pretty small .. combined with the fact only two countries actually have high level players, IMO the women are fortunate statistically to get two per year.

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