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 Re: Oilers recall Jones [message #747111 is a reply to message #747110 ]
Tue, 19 November 2019 09:15 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
Messages: 1698
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton

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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 19 November 2019 08:48

Adam wrote on Tue, 19 November 2019 08:10

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 14 November 2019 13:16

Goose wrote on Thu, 14 November 2019 12:51

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 14 November 2019 10:02



I don't see how any team wins a trade where you are getting rid of a 24 yr old, excellent skating, tough, physical, big minute player, can play on both special teams, 30-40 pts dman.

You'd have to get one hell of a forward back to have a chance at winning that trade because as soon as you trade Nurse, you are looking for Nurse. If he was right handed, his name would never get mentioned.

I am curious to know who you think would be a forward worth trading Nurse for pretending that anyone is available? For me, it would have to be a young, signed for a value contract, proven, really good, top 6 forward. Going out and trading for a Nylander or an Ehlers, guys who on paper are good and can be good when they want too but are inconsistent doesn't do it for me. I don't see a Chia out there in a GM's spot who's stupid enough to trade a Hall type player for Nurse. That is the type of trade you would have to get to make a Nurse trade worth it in my opinion.


Ha, I would kill for the inconsistency of guys with multiple 20 goal/60 point seasons before their 25th birthday. That's basically the definition of top line scoring in the NHL. The 6th best forward on the Oilers is currently on pace for 20 points.

To put another way, the Oilers need more scoring, I don't think that's really in dispute. So if they don't trade a defenceman for one, how are they going to acquire someone? I think the Oilers best option is to trade a defenceman for scoring as they currently have more depth in their system at defence, with 3 or 4 guys that could end up being top-4 defencemen in the next few years. How many potential top 6 forwards do they currently have? Benson is the only guy that you can say is really trending that way right now. Yamamoto might have a chance, but I don't think he's done enough to this point to suggest he'll even be a consistent 50 point NHLer. Is there anyone other than Nurse that they could trade to get a guy like Nylander? Klefbom, sure, but keep in mind I suspect that Nurse is probably going to ask for and likely get $2+M more than Klefbom is currently making (and Klefbom is signed for 3 more years after this, the Oilers really can't afford to move that contract, there's too much value there).






I guess we have way different opinions on the Oilers. I have watched for years and years how the Oilers would draft guys, go through the growing pains of these guys developing and right when they were finally seeing the fruit of all the time and money they invested in a guy, dump them. Winning teams seem to have a bunch of guys on their team in their primes in key positions. The Oilers have the opportunity to have 2 guys, Klef and Nurse who are in their primes be the anchors of their top 2 pairings. Then you offset them with young guys on the right. I think it would be a mistake of epic proportions to trade Nurse. Think Petry. Petry was a decent dman that the Oilers spent years developing but had a few warts and they dumped him. As a Hab, he continued to get better and better. He's exactly what the Oilers have lacked on their defense from the day they traded him.

You ask how you get other forwards without trading Nurse. Look no further than what the Avs did with Barrie. They played him and squeezed all the juices out of him then dumped him to the Leafs for exactly what they needed in Kadri who's a second line center. Barrie has been brutal for the Leafs. If you want to go get Nylander, then you wait until this offseason and you trade for a Nylander or another forward because the Leafs only have 1 Dman signed and need to free up money because they overpaid for Tavarese, Matthews and Marner. So you give up a dirt cheap, NHL ready Jones and a decent pick and you get that forward.

So not only have you upgraded your forwards but you haven't stripped away one of the few Dmen you have who's just entering his prime years.


The big mistake the Oilers made with Petry wasn't just trading him. Everyone on your team (well, almost everyone if you have McDavid on your side) should always be available if the right deal is there. Anyone suggesting that Nurse should be traded for a 5th round pick and a tentative 2nd/3rd round pick should be fired immediately.

That said, there are only so many defence slots so if it looks like you've got more left-shot defence than you can play, eventually something has to give.

The Oilers have a front row seat on the development of all these players, and hopefully they're examining them from an objective point of view. If they have to trade someone, then they need to look at what the ceiling of the player most likely is, as well as what can they get back via trade for that player. If they believe Jones can be close to what Nurse is in the near term, then you have to consider that he's the cheaper option and Nurse can get you a real return, whereas a prospect will get you, at best, another good prospect or pick usually.

Now, the problem is that the Oilers haven't been very good at assessing talent - Gustafsson and Marino are showing that the organization doesn't necessarily see it even when right in front of them and even Martin Marincin is a case study in organizational mistakes - Eric Gryba was older, more expensive and less effective and is now gone, while Marincin continues to be a borderline NHLer for the team we traded him to. Because of that, I have little faith in the Oilers ability to assess the ceilings properly and make the right move, but moves are coming. The defence is jam-packed with options and prospects and they can't all have roster spots on the Edmonton Oilers. Meanwhile, we still have two lines filled with minor leaguers on our NHL roster - so at some point that has to be addressed too.

I disagree with you a bit on being able to assess talent. You are 100% correct, they screwed up on Gustafsson, they should have signed him. But the organization recognized that he had potential and drafted he. He was a 4th rounder. They recognized Bear and Jones were talents that were drafted later. They recognized that Marion who was a 6th round pick had the potential. So you can't say they don't recognize talent especially in the 5 years.

Where I definitely disagree on is giving them trouble with Mario. The guy wasn't going to sign in Edmonton. He said it. He's an American, he wanted to play in an American city. The guy wasn't coming here so what do you expect them to do.

When it comes to Nurse, other than McDavid and Leon, there should be no player on the Oilers that is untouchable. If a great trade comes to you that helps make you better, you trade him. But in my opinion, there are not a lot of trade scenarios where I see you winning a Nurse trade. Given his skill set and the type of player he is i.e mean, nasty, physical guy that can really skate, play in all situations, bring some offense, play big minutes and defend, that is a guy that every team would love to have but I don't think he scores enough points to give you the higher end player you should get back for him. You aren't getting a line driving, all around forward that is a big time scorer. You are going to get a good, complimentary player who puts up around 20 goals and 50 pts, probably doesn't play in all situations and probably is invisible on a lot of nights. a.k.a, another Eberle type. The Oilers could use a second line player for sure. But while you get that complimentary player, you are giving up a 22+ min dman that put ups 30+ pts, plays in all situations, beats the hell out of people and skates like the wind. It's not worth is in my opinion

Nurse for Johnny Hockey. 1 for 1



You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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