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 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817158 is a reply to message #817155 ]
Mon, 23 January 2023 14:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 23 January 2023 11:44

I have zero issue with the team saying Holloway and Broberg are almost untouchable. Championship teams in a cap world badly need high end players making next to no money. So if they stay with the team, they need guys like them on their team. That being said, I truly believe the only 2 untouchables are McD and Leon. Telling the world that they see Broberg and Holloway as extremely valuable to me tells other GM's if you think you are getting one of those 2 ++, it won't happen. As an example, the ridiculous plus of 2 firsts + Broberg for Chychrun, that rightly squashes that idea.


I'm shocked, SHOCKED that you're on board with Oilers management.

Honestly, I don't get upset about what other people propose on a trade - especially since we're only ever getting pieces of information, usually supplied by the Oilers brass to their lapdogs in the media who'll help build a case that they just can't do trades. Most of what you hear is designed to inflame the public.

In reality, the first ask from a team is probably always going to be a bit high, and it's almost certainly higher when dealing with the Oilers, because the GM has long shown himself to be really bad at trades, especially for a player of any stature. You start high because he's going to skew higher then.

If the Oilers want a cost-controlled long-term signed defenceman like Chychrun, the price is likely to be high. I don't really believe it's two 1st rounds and Broberg, but if it's one and Broberg? That's pretty reasonable. He's unquestionably an upgrade. Couple years older and more developed, putting up great points. He's the second most used defenceman on the powerplay, and he's taking the most minutes per game currently too. Seldom used on the PK, but he adds more of what the team needs - a player who can transition the puck.

I like Broberg, but his ceiling isn't likely to be where Chycrun is at currently. If you can do a deal without giving him up? Great - then find a way! But the reality is that that would be an upgrade to the team - and the team needs to compete for a Cup THIS YEAR and for the next two or three afterwards, so anything you can do to improve the roster is important and first round picks or projects who might peak in 4-5 years aren't the key.

The problem is that if we aren't competitive in the next couple of years then McDavid leaves and there is nothing but ashes here. Unless that first round pick is ready to fill his skates when he goes, then he's just not the most important piece.

There's a pretty good argument to be made that the Oilers shouldn't look to trade players like Broberg and Holloway because the GM is too crappy to make a good deal with those players - but I still think saying they're untouchable is silly. Why even comment to be honest? I'd tell the interviewer: "You can go up and down my roster and I'll say the same thing for everyone. If there's a deal that improves the team, we'll explore it. If there isn't then I won't. I'm not interested in commenting on whether certain players are available or not."

Sadly, Ken Holland is a putz and has no idea how to intelligently answer questions in interviews.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817160 is a reply to message #817158 ]
Mon, 23 January 2023 15:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Mon, 23 January 2023 14:45

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 23 January 2023 11:44

I have zero issue with the team saying Holloway and Broberg are almost untouchable. Championship teams in a cap world badly need high end players making next to no money. So if they stay with the team, they need guys like them on their team. That being said, I truly believe the only 2 untouchables are McD and Leon. Telling the world that they see Broberg and Holloway as extremely valuable to me tells other GM's if you think you are getting one of those 2 ++, it won't happen. As an example, the ridiculous plus of 2 firsts + Broberg for Chychrun, that rightly squashes that idea.


I'm shocked, SHOCKED that you're on board with Oilers management.

Honestly, I don't get upset about what other people propose on a trade - especially since we're only ever getting pieces of information, usually supplied by the Oilers brass to their lapdogs in the media who'll help build a case that they just can't do trades. Most of what you hear is designed to inflame the public.

In reality, the first ask from a team is probably always going to be a bit high, and it's almost certainly higher when dealing with the Oilers, because the GM has long shown himself to be really bad at trades, especially for a player of any stature. You start high because he's going to skew higher then.

If the Oilers want a cost-controlled long-term signed defenceman like Chychrun, the price is likely to be high. I don't really believe it's two 1st rounds and Broberg, but if it's one and Broberg? That's pretty reasonable. He's unquestionably an upgrade. Couple years older and more developed, putting up great points. He's the second most used defenceman on the powerplay, and he's taking the most minutes per game currently too. Seldom used on the PK, but he adds more of what the team needs - a player who can transition the puck.

I like Broberg, but his ceiling isn't likely to be where Chycrun is at currently. If you can do a deal without giving him up? Great - then find a way! But the reality is that that would be an upgrade to the team - and the team needs to compete for a Cup THIS YEAR and for the next two or three afterwards, so anything you can do to improve the roster is important and first round picks or projects who might peak in 4-5 years aren't the key.

The problem is that if we aren't competitive in the next couple of years then McDavid leaves and there is nothing but ashes here. Unless that first round pick is ready to fill his skates when he goes, then he's just not the most important piece.

There's a pretty good argument to be made that the Oilers shouldn't look to trade players like Broberg and Holloway because the GM is too crappy to make a good deal with those players - but I still think saying they're untouchable is silly. Why even comment to be honest? I'd tell the interviewer: "You can go up and down my roster and I'll say the same thing for everyone. If there's a deal that improves the team, we'll explore it. If there isn't then I won't. I'm not interested in commenting on whether certain players are available or not."

Sadly, Ken Holland is a putz and has no idea how to intelligently answer questions in interviews.

I am shocked that you did another rant about why Oilers management is bad and don't know what they are doing. Then ever more shocked that you do a complete 180 on something you have complained about over and over again. You have said more times than I can remember how lousy of a job the Oilers management does with pumping up the value of their properly. So they do that with Broberg and Holloway, they pump up the value on these 2 EXACTLY like you have said should happen all the time and now you mock them.

The next thing you will do is tell me I am wrong and how you never said that or these 2 don't apply to what you said for made up reason X & Y.

Rinse repeat.

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 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817161 is a reply to message #817160 ]
Mon, 23 January 2023 15:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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For the next 38 games, I think Chyrchurn would upgrade their defense. Going into next season, I am not sure he would be an upgrade if Broberg continues on his path. The Oilers might have a legit great skating, good defending top 4 dman in Broberg who makes under 900 k for next season. So I am not so sure the assets it would take to get Chychrun are worth potentially upgrading your defense for 38 games knowing he might get passed by next season.

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 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817162 is a reply to message #817161 ]
Mon, 23 January 2023 16:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 23 January 2023 15:49

For the next 38 games, I think Chyrchurn would upgrade their defense. Going into next season, I am not sure he would be an upgrade if Broberg continues on his path. The Oilers might have a legit great skating, good defending top 4 dman in Broberg who makes under 900 k for next season. So I am not so sure the assets it would take to get Chychrun are worth potentially upgrading your defense for 38 games knowing he might get passed by next season.


That is an extremely big IF. The Oilers love to make bets on big IFs though, so you're consistent with management in that love of hope. Personally, I prefer surer bets. It's clear what Chychrun is, because he's already there. He might develop further, but he's a pretty solid NHL defenceman who produces points on the PP and at even strength. Broberg hasn't shown a lot of offensive upside yet, although maybe it's there. He's had some flashes in the AHL. I think relying on him to make THAT big a jump in a single summer is probably over-hopeful.

FWIW, I'm not against "pumping tires" and trying to build on the value of your players and I certainly do NOT want Holland to come out and say that he's shopping these guys. I think saying players are untouchable isn't great as a negotiating tactic. If it's not true, then you lose credibility if you say that and then immediately consider them in deals and if it is true, then you're telling teams not even to bother asking about them.

I would prefer to see him answer with a non-answer, saying basically that he won't talk about who is or isn't on the market. He could elaborate if he wished by saying those are really good young players and that he's excited about their development, but I see no reason to actually give a reporter information on who is or isn't potentially being discussed in trades. Besides that, it opens up the possibility that the reporter continues to ask about specific players and then if you DON'T say someone is untouchable, a lot can be inferred. There's just no win to saying that they are untouchable.

This would be a bad comment in a scrum, but this was a one-on-one discussion with DNB - someone who Holland has given a bunch of access this year (even though he's much less likely to lick Holland's boot leather compared to some of the others). When you have the ability to prepare for questions - and possibly may even be answering some over email - then there's no excuse not to only put forward exactly the message you want. And that message should be much more carefully crafted. I don't think that Holland thinks about that stuff at all...he answers off-the-cuff, and he tends to answer fairly honestly. I will be shocked now if either of those guys moves, because the GM likes to play with his cards face-up, so I'm going to take him at face value on this.

I will say, history has shown that being skeptical of Oilers management will tend to see one proven right a lot more often than the contrary position...

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 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817170 is a reply to message #817162 ]
Tue, 24 January 2023 08:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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I think the ask for Chychrun of 2 firsts and a high end prospect is a ridiculous ask but hey, why not ask for a insanely high return just in case you find a GM desperate enough to do it. In reality, the trade will probably be a 1st and the teams best prospect because Chychrun is a good dman who is signed for 2 more years. So there is value there.

While you think expecting Broberg to be a top 4 dman next year is a risk, I think trading the assets to get Chychrun given his history is more of a risk. If you look at his stats, he's never played a full season. The only season he hasn't had a major injury was the covid year. Every year he's missed significant time. This season he missed the first 16 games, that's assume he doesn't get hurt again. This guy screams Klefbom all over to me. A good dman when he plays but you can count on him to get hurt every year and miss 15-20 games minimum. If you look at his season, that's exactly what he's done. To get him, the Oilers will have to give up a first and I would assume Broberg because the Yotes are trading their best dman so they would want a young dman back who in a year or 2, will be their best dman. The signs are saying Broberg is that guy.

So if the Oilers do that, they would be getting a dman who today and for the next 38 games, assuming he doesn't get hurt which is a BIG if, they would upgrade their defense. But if Chychrinn goes down which given his history as a definitely possibility, they have nothing to cover his loss because you traded it away. Then next year, is there a guarantee Chychrun will be significantly better than Broberg? Based on how he is playing and how good Broberg is looking, no there isn't. When Chychrun goes doesn for his yearly injury and misses his standard 15-20 games, who's covering off for him? Broberg is gone.

In addition, like I said, if Broberg continues on the path he is going on, you will have a top 4 dman signed for under 900 k next year. That's massive value. Then when his contract is up given his limited experience, you can probably sign him for value deal that will help you hopefully resign McD and Leon because you saved dollars AND you have hopefully this stud dman who will be 23-24 barely going into his prime to help sell McD and Leon. After this year, in 2 years, you are probably letting Chychrun walk because he's going to have inflated numbers on the Oilers and expecting a big raise because he's been underpaid all these years and he's got these fat stats. Plus he's probably been hurt many games each year so who knows where his body will be at. Unfortunately, the injuries Chychrun has had haven't been minor things, they all seem to be major, surgery required things and inevitably, the body breaks down when you have to go under the knife over and over again just like Klefbom.

So yes it is a risk to assume Broberg will be good but from everything that has happened with his development, the payoff looks to be massive and could set you up for a decade on defense. He's already a good player. So if they can get Chychrun and the cost is something like Kulak a first and something else, all day I do it because then you have Broberg still for the reasons I said. There are too many red flags for Chychrun to give up that much and potentially hamstring your team for a long time to bring in a guy who in my opinion, doesn't check off all the boxes the Oilers need on top of the injury history.

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 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817172 is a reply to message #817170 ]
Tue, 24 January 2023 09:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dragon_Matt is currently offline Dragon_Matt
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I think you also have to compare styles. Chychrun is not a defensive D-man, where Broberg is. If we were to include a prospect, I would assume it would be more likely to be Bouchard. WHy would we have Barrie Bouchard and Chychrun? Barrie is our PP guy and Bouch is next up. Would CHych just sit on the bench for our PP? what a waste.
dollar value means nothing at this point. Win a cup or you're going to have a ton of cap space when Drai and McD are gone. If you win a cup, you buy franchise time. Win a cup, you attract better players at lower dollars and don't have to rely solely on draft picks.

Trade the prospects, trade the picks, I just don't think Broberg + for Chych makes sense for what we need as a team.

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 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817173 is a reply to message #817172 ]
Tue, 24 January 2023 10:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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My feelings as well. The Oilers don't need another dman who scores a ton of points. They have that already, they have more than enough scoring on defense. Barrie will be close to double digits in goals and score close to 60 pts. There is your PP guy. Nurse will be close to double digits in goals and score 40 pts, mostly 5 on 5. Bouchard is having a down year scoring wise but his bread and butter is offense. So you have 3 dmen who typically will score around 10 or more goals and have 40 or more points. They don't need another guy who does that same thing. Would it be nice, sure but they need a guy who defends really well.

I've yet to hear anyone who talks about what Chychrun does well say he's a great defender. They don't say he's bad but don't say he's a very good defender. Then I go to his stats. He's averaging 29 seconds of PK time a game. If you are considered your teams best dman and you are a good defender, I've never seen a team not play your best dman on the PK. That's a red flag to me. The point of bringing in another left shot is to less the load of Nurse defensively. Maybe Chychrun can do that but it seems strange to me he's not playing on the PK, a place where typically you play the best defenders on defense you got. In comparison, Broberg plays over 1 min a game on the PK and he's a rookie.

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 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817175 is a reply to message #817172 ]
Tue, 24 January 2023 10:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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Dragon_Matt wrote on Tue, 24 January 2023 09:47

I think you also have to compare styles. Chychrun is not a defensive D-man, where Broberg is. If we were to include a prospect, I would assume it would be more likely to be Bouchard. WHy would we have Barrie Bouchard and Chychrun? Barrie is our PP guy and Bouch is next up. Would CHych just sit on the bench for our PP? what a waste.
dollar value means nothing at this point. Win a cup or you're going to have a ton of cap space when Drai and McD are gone. If you win a cup, you buy franchise time. Win a cup, you attract better players at lower dollars and don't have to rely solely on draft picks.

Trade the prospects, trade the picks, I just don't think Broberg + for Chych makes sense for what we need as a team.


I whole-heartedly disagree. Get good players, keep good players. Chychrun is a good 5v5 player. He's decent on the PP, but certainly not the only option there, but he advances the puck well. We are trying to run a system where we advance the puck quickly, but most of our defencemen aren't great at that - so we get stuck in our zone defending too much.

Bouchard has too much upside - I would not trade him for Chychrun. He's the best defenceman on the team already this year, despite some of the griping you hear about him.

We need to have puck movers on every pairing, and unfortunately, we've seen Ceci and Kulak take a step back this year. Neither of them have been great at this. On top of that, Barrie isn't great at 5v5 most of the time, so you want to limit his icetime and make sure he's not caught out against the other team's best.

Chychrun is a left shot, unlike Barrie and Bouchard, so he adds a different element. He also takes time away from Darnell Nurse, who the team has relied on too heavily. A couple minutes less a night is probably a big help to Nurse's game.

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 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817174 is a reply to message #817170 ]
Tue, 24 January 2023 10:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 24 January 2023 08:35

I think the ask for Chychrun of 2 firsts and a high end prospect is a ridiculous ask but hey, why not ask for a insanely high return just in case you find a GM desperate enough to do it. In reality, the trade will probably be a 1st and the teams best prospect because Chychrun is a good dman who is signed for 2 more years. So there is value there.

While you think expecting Broberg to be a top 4 dman next year is a risk, I think trading the assets to get Chychrun given his history is more of a risk. If you look at his stats, he's never played a full season. The only season he hasn't had a major injury was the covid year. Every year he's missed significant time. This season he missed the first 16 games, that's assume he doesn't get hurt again. This guy screams Klefbom all over to me. A good dman when he plays but you can count on him to get hurt every year and miss 15-20 games minimum. If you look at his season, that's exactly what he's done. To get him, the Oilers will have to give up a first and I would assume Broberg because the Yotes are trading their best dman so they would want a young dman back who in a year or 2, will be their best dman. The signs are saying Broberg is that guy.

So if the Oilers do that, they would be getting a dman who today and for the next 38 games, assuming he doesn't get hurt which is a BIG if, they would upgrade their defense. But if Chychrinn goes down which given his history as a definitely possibility, they have nothing to cover his loss because you traded it away. Then next year, is there a guarantee Chychrun will be significantly better than Broberg? Based on how he is playing and how good Broberg is looking, no there isn't. When Chychrun goes doesn for his yearly injury and misses his standard 15-20 games, who's covering off for him? Broberg is gone.

In addition, like I said, if Broberg continues on the path he is going on, you will have a top 4 dman signed for under 900 k next year. That's massive value. Then when his contract is up given his limited experience, you can probably sign him for value deal that will help you hopefully resign McD and Leon because you saved dollars AND you have hopefully this stud dman who will be 23-24 barely going into his prime to help sell McD and Leon. After this year, in 2 years, you are probably letting Chychrun walk because he's going to have inflated numbers on the Oilers and expecting a big raise because he's been underpaid all these years and he's got these fat stats. Plus he's probably been hurt many games each year so who knows where his body will be at. Unfortunately, the injuries Chychrun has had haven't been minor things, they all seem to be major, surgery required things and inevitably, the body breaks down when you have to go under the knife over and over again just like Klefbom.

So yes it is a risk to assume Broberg will be good but from everything that has happened with his development, the payoff looks to be massive and could set you up for a decade on defense. He's already a good player. So if they can get Chychrun and the cost is something like Kulak a first and something else, all day I do it because then you have Broberg still for the reasons I said. There are too many red flags for Chychrun to give up that much and potentially hamstring your team for a long time to bring in a guy who in my opinion, doesn't check off all the boxes the Oilers need on top of the injury history.


Your argument around injury history is a good one.

I think however, that the Oilers are too often fooled by a stretch of a few good games. Broberg looked lost earlier in the season when he was up, and many were writing him off as a bust at that point, now he's had a few good games and people are thinking he could be a burgeoning star. Neither viewpoint is likely correct, and both are based on small sample sizes.

My belief from looking at his stats as a whole is that he could very well be a top-4 defenceman, although likely a steady, unspectacular one. I think the team could definitely use someone more dynamic.

If we can get that person without trading Broberg? Fantastic. But if not, then he's just not someone I put as completely untradeable, because steady, unspectacular defencemen aren't THAT hard to find, and generally, they don't make huge salaries anyhow.

Same for Holloway. I like him, I think he belongs in the Oilers lineup as it stands. But if we got a winger who's better now and who wasn't just a rental gone next summer would I consider trading him? Absolutely.

The fact is, the window is really small and we don't have time to develop all these kids before McDavid's free agency approaches. We need to WIN A CUP in that time if we want him to even consider staying. Basically, the world ends for the Oilers in 2025-26 so there's no point in spending much time thinking about what the future beyond that looks like. Draisaitl is actually a free agent a year earlier, and if he leaves, well that's probably it for McDavid too and the team might even look to trade him then to try to recoup SOMETHING if it's clear he ain't staying either, so maybe armageddon is the end of the 2024-25 season even...

That is only two and a bit years away and the Oilers are currently the 12th best team in the league and the 6th best team in the conference. We need management to understand the desperate situation they're in. This team needs a major leap forward.

Incredibly, the team's goaltending is locked in for the rest of the McDavid window, and all the defence save our best one are also signed until the end of next year at least, with all of Nurse, Barrie, Kulak and Ceci here for the entire window. Up front, our top five forwards are all locked in. Up until this point, Holland's moves suggests that he thinks this group is good enough to ride out the remainder of the era with some bottom six forwards as really the only contemplated tweaks. It's not good enough. We're going to have to upgrade somewhere - and probably a couple of places - if we're going to be successful. Those quick upgrades are not available internally, so we are going to have to trade at some point, and we're going to have to sacrifice some good future asset to get a really good present asset back. It's a trade that Holland has never ever made in his entire career - at least, not well - so it is pretty terrifying.

We're approaching midnight here. Three more kicks at a Cup, and then it's all over if we fail.

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 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817176 is a reply to message #817174 ]
Tue, 24 January 2023 11:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Tue, 24 January 2023 10:42

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 24 January 2023 08:35

I think the ask for Chychrun of 2 firsts and a high end prospect is a ridiculous ask but hey, why not ask for a insanely high return just in case you find a GM desperate enough to do it. In reality, the trade will probably be a 1st and the teams best prospect because Chychrun is a good dman who is signed for 2 more years. So there is value there.

While you think expecting Broberg to be a top 4 dman next year is a risk, I think trading the assets to get Chychrun given his history is more of a risk. If you look at his stats, he's never played a full season. The only season he hasn't had a major injury was the covid year. Every year he's missed significant time. This season he missed the first 16 games, that's assume he doesn't get hurt again. This guy screams Klefbom all over to me. A good dman when he plays but you can count on him to get hurt every year and miss 15-20 games minimum. If you look at his season, that's exactly what he's done. To get him, the Oilers will have to give up a first and I would assume Broberg because the Yotes are trading their best dman so they would want a young dman back who in a year or 2, will be their best dman. The signs are saying Broberg is that guy.

So if the Oilers do that, they would be getting a dman who today and for the next 38 games, assuming he doesn't get hurt which is a BIG if, they would upgrade their defense. But if Chychrinn goes down which given his history as a definitely possibility, they have nothing to cover his loss because you traded it away. Then next year, is there a guarantee Chychrun will be significantly better than Broberg? Based on how he is playing and how good Broberg is looking, no there isn't. When Chychrun goes doesn for his yearly injury and misses his standard 15-20 games, who's covering off for him? Broberg is gone.

In addition, like I said, if Broberg continues on the path he is going on, you will have a top 4 dman signed for under 900 k next year. That's massive value. Then when his contract is up given his limited experience, you can probably sign him for value deal that will help you hopefully resign McD and Leon because you saved dollars AND you have hopefully this stud dman who will be 23-24 barely going into his prime to help sell McD and Leon. After this year, in 2 years, you are probably letting Chychrun walk because he's going to have inflated numbers on the Oilers and expecting a big raise because he's been underpaid all these years and he's got these fat stats. Plus he's probably been hurt many games each year so who knows where his body will be at. Unfortunately, the injuries Chychrun has had haven't been minor things, they all seem to be major, surgery required things and inevitably, the body breaks down when you have to go under the knife over and over again just like Klefbom.

So yes it is a risk to assume Broberg will be good but from everything that has happened with his development, the payoff looks to be massive and could set you up for a decade on defense. He's already a good player. So if they can get Chychrun and the cost is something like Kulak a first and something else, all day I do it because then you have Broberg still for the reasons I said. There are too many red flags for Chychrun to give up that much and potentially hamstring your team for a long time to bring in a guy who in my opinion, doesn't check off all the boxes the Oilers need on top of the injury history.


Your argument around injury history is a good one.

I think however, that the Oilers are too often fooled by a stretch of a few good games. Broberg looked lost earlier in the season when he was up, and many were writing him off as a bust at that point, now he's had a few good games and people are thinking he could be a burgeoning star. Neither viewpoint is likely correct, and both are based on small sample sizes.

My belief from looking at his stats as a whole is that he could very well be a top-4 defenceman, although likely a steady, unspectacular one. I think the team could definitely use someone more dynamic.

If we can get that person without trading Broberg? Fantastic. But if not, then he's just not someone I put as completely untradeable, because steady, unspectacular defencemen aren't THAT hard to find, and generally, they don't make huge salaries anyhow.

Same for Holloway. I like him, I think he belongs in the Oilers lineup as it stands. But if we got a winger who's better now and who wasn't just a rental gone next summer would I consider trading him? Absolutely.

The fact is, the window is really small and we don't have time to develop all these kids before McDavid's free agency approaches. We need to WIN A CUP in that time if we want him to even consider staying. Basically, the world ends for the Oilers in 2025-26 so there's no point in spending much time thinking about what the future beyond that looks like. Draisaitl is actually a free agent a year earlier, and if he leaves, well that's probably it for McDavid too and the team might even look to trade him then to try to recoup SOMETHING if it's clear he ain't staying either, so maybe armageddon is the end of the 2024-25 season even...

That is only two and a bit years away and the Oilers are currently the 12th best team in the league and the 6th best team in the conference. We need management to understand the desperate situation they're in. This team needs a major leap forward.

Incredibly, the team's goaltending is locked in for the rest of the McDavid window, and all the defence save our best one are also signed until the end of next year at least, with all of Nurse, Barrie, Kulak and Ceci here for the entire window. Up front, our top five forwards are all locked in. Up until this point, Holland's moves suggests that he thinks this group is good enough to ride out the remainder of the era with some bottom six forwards as really the only contemplated tweaks. It's not good enough. We're going to have to upgrade somewhere - and probably a couple of places - if we're going to be successful. Those quick upgrades are not available internally, so we are going to have to trade at some point, and we're going to have to sacrifice some good future asset to get a really good present asset back. It's a trade that Holland has never ever made in his entire career - at least, not well - so it is pretty terrifying.

We're approaching midnight here. Three more kicks at a Cup, and then it's all over if we fail.

I am more OK with trading away Holloway than Broberg. I feel like forwards develop fast and when you have McD and Leon, they can elevate lesser guys. Defense is another story.

Full disclosure, I am a fan of Broberg. I think his combination of decent size, blazing speed and growing defensive ability is something that I think is hard to find. I think he's going to be a very good top 4 dman and I see him as earning a full time top 4 position next year. Then moving forward, the Oilers are going to have 2 big, elite skating dmen on their blueline for the next 7 yrs which will be tough to beat. Maybe I am wrong and its just another rookie having a great run but I see trading Broberg to get a Chychrun is a mistake. To me, if you are going to trade a dman who I see as going to be a very good top 4 dman starting next season for the next decade or more, the guy you are bringing better check off every box the Oilers need and I don't think Chychrun does.

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 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817177 is a reply to message #817176 ]
Tue, 24 January 2023 12:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dragon_Matt is currently offline Dragon_Matt
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If your window is the next 3 years, how can you hope to compete if you are paying Barrie, CHych and Bouch (who is getting a substantial raise this offseason)? If Bouchard is the one you want to keep, you can't have those three. That'll be 12+ million locked up on one side of our defense, + Nurse on the other side... cap hell, which means it's not actually a 3 year span, it's this year or nothing.

Phoenix won't eat half his cap hit unless we empty the cupboards for them. I don't see either of those occurring.


I would agree with at least one puck moving D man on each pairing, but the setup you argue for here just can't work without moving one of those other two.

If you are arguing for Chych, what would a trade look like in your vision? How could we pull it off and have the forwards as strong as we need and be cap compliant?

FYI - I really like both Broberg and Holloway too, but I'd easily part ways for a trade that made us better for the Mcwindow.

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 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817178 is a reply to message #817177 ]
Tue, 24 January 2023 12:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Dragon_Matt wrote on Tue, 24 January 2023 12:10

If your window is the next 3 years, how can you hope to compete if you are paying Barrie, CHych and Bouch (who is getting a substantial raise this offseason)? If Bouchard is the one you want to keep, you can't have those three. That'll be 12+ million locked up on one side of our defense, + Nurse on the other side... cap hell, which means it's not actually a 3 year span, it's this year or nothing.

Phoenix won't eat half his cap hit unless we empty the cupboards for them. I don't see either of those occurring.


I would agree with at least one puck moving D man on each pairing, but the setup you argue for here just can't work without moving one of those other two.

If you are arguing for Chych, what would a trade look like in your vision? How could we pull it off and have the forwards as strong as we need and be cap compliant?

FYI - I really like both Broberg and Holloway too, but I'd easily part ways for a trade that made us better for the Mcwindow.

The Oilers have to assess their players honestly and figure out who can help them win a cup in those three years. I've been a defender of Puljujarvi for years and I think he's a good player, but I no longer see him as someone that'll help win a cup. I'm starting to think the same of Yamamoto. This year's first rounder won't help them win one of the next three cups. I'm not sure Reid Schaffer will either. The Oilers will have to play hardball with their RFAs and get rid of players the are underperforming their contracts.

Frankly, I don't think the Oilers have the ability or stones to do it.

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 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817179 is a reply to message #817178 ]
Tue, 24 January 2023 12:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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I don't need to give my opinion about JP, it's know. I am with you on Yamo. I like his game when he is on but he doesn't help you on the trainers table and I am feeling like with the way he has to play, his size is a problem injury wise. I think he is a good player who doesn't have elite skill so he has to play a scrappy, physical game to be effective and at his size, he will end up being hurt a lot.

I think moving forward. JP won't be here. He probably gets traded in the next couple of weeks. Then in the offseason, at least 1 of Yamo or Foegele will also be gone.

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 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817180 is a reply to message #817179 ]
Tue, 24 January 2023 13:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 24 January 2023 12:49


I think moving forward. JP won't be here. He probably gets traded in the next couple of weeks. Then in the offseason, at least 1 of Yamo or Foegele will also be gone.

These are the situations where I'm more than comfortable 'losing a trade'. I don't really care what the return is as long as they're not killing cap space too. Now is not the time to maximize assets, that ship has long sailed. We are in the maximizing production zone.

Again, I don't think the Oilers organization has the ability to do this.

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 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817181 is a reply to message #817180 ]
Tue, 24 January 2023 13:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 24 January 2023 13:02

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 24 January 2023 12:49


I think moving forward. JP won't be here. He probably gets traded in the next couple of weeks. Then in the offseason, at least 1 of Yamo or Foegele will also be gone.

These are the situations where I'm more than comfortable 'losing a trade'. I don't really care what the return is as long as they're not killing cap space too. Now is not the time to maximize assets, that ship has long sailed. We are in the maximizing production zone.

Again, I don't think the Oilers organization has the ability to do this.

JP has zero value. The key is to not have to pay to get rid of him. The usable return for JP is his cap space.

I see Yamo as a top 9 guy that can play in your top 6 and not kill you so I could see the Oilers turning Yamo into a cheaper top 9 guy that's maybe a little older and you know more of what you get with him.

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 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817184 is a reply to message #817181 ]
Tue, 24 January 2023 13:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 24 January 2023 13:35

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 24 January 2023 13:02

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 24 January 2023 12:49


I think moving forward. JP won't be here. He probably gets traded in the next couple of weeks. Then in the offseason, at least 1 of Yamo or Foegele will also be gone.

These are the situations where I'm more than comfortable 'losing a trade'. I don't really care what the return is as long as they're not killing cap space too. Now is not the time to maximize assets, that ship has long sailed. We are in the maximizing production zone.

Again, I don't think the Oilers organization has the ability to do this.

JP has zero value. The key is to not have to pay to get rid of him. The usable return for JP is his cap space.

I see Yamo as a top 9 guy that can play in your top 6 and not kill you so I could see the Oilers turning Yamo into a cheaper top 9 guy that's maybe a little older and you know more of what you get with him.

JP has value as an expiring contract. He won't get qualified so a smart team could get a reclamation on the cheap. I'd let the contract expire before I gave up sweeteners Kassian style.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817185 is a reply to message #817184 ]
Tue, 24 January 2023 14:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 24 January 2023 13:57

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 24 January 2023 13:35

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 24 January 2023 13:02

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 24 January 2023 12:49


I think moving forward. JP won't be here. He probably gets traded in the next couple of weeks. Then in the offseason, at least 1 of Yamo or Foegele will also be gone.

These are the situations where I'm more than comfortable 'losing a trade'. I don't really care what the return is as long as they're not killing cap space too. Now is not the time to maximize assets, that ship has long sailed. We are in the maximizing production zone.

Again, I don't think the Oilers organization has the ability to do this.

JP has zero value. The key is to not have to pay to get rid of him. The usable return for JP is his cap space.

I see Yamo as a top 9 guy that can play in your top 6 and not kill you so I could see the Oilers turning Yamo into a cheaper top 9 guy that's maybe a little older and you know more of what you get with him.

JP has value as an expiring contract. He won't get qualified so a smart team could get a reclamation on the cheap. I'd let the contract expire before I gave up sweeteners Kassian style.


Exactly. Everyone in the league, including Puljujarvi and his agent know that he isn't going to get qualified, but if he found a good landing spot they would have a leg up towards signing him at a reasonable rate for next year. If you're a seller, then you have no real detriment to trying a few things to see who potentially has chemistry or could be a good fit for next year.

Many of the sellers know they're taking on cap anyhow so if you get a Puljujarvi and a pick for your expensive veteran UFA-to-be (with a Cup ring of course), then you're going to be all over that.

There is absolutely no need to pay someone to take a guy on an expiring deal. You're better off keeping him and letting the deal lapse in the summer.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817186 is a reply to message #817185 ]
Tue, 24 January 2023 14:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Adam wrote on Tue, 24 January 2023 14:07

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 24 January 2023 13:57

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 24 January 2023 13:35

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 24 January 2023 13:02

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 24 January 2023 12:49


I think moving forward. JP won't be here. He probably gets traded in the next couple of weeks. Then in the offseason, at least 1 of Yamo or Foegele will also be gone.

These are the situations where I'm more than comfortable 'losing a trade'. I don't really care what the return is as long as they're not killing cap space too. Now is not the time to maximize assets, that ship has long sailed. We are in the maximizing production zone.

Again, I don't think the Oilers organization has the ability to do this.

JP has zero value. The key is to not have to pay to get rid of him. The usable return for JP is his cap space.

I see Yamo as a top 9 guy that can play in your top 6 and not kill you so I could see the Oilers turning Yamo into a cheaper top 9 guy that's maybe a little older and you know more of what you get with him.

JP has value as an expiring contract. He won't get qualified so a smart team could get a reclamation on the cheap. I'd let the contract expire before I gave up sweeteners Kassian style.


Exactly. Everyone in the league, including Puljujarvi and his agent know that he isn't going to get qualified, but if he found a good landing spot they would have a leg up towards signing him at a reasonable rate for next year. If you're a seller, then you have no real detriment to trying a few things to see who potentially has chemistry or could be a good fit for next year.

Many of the sellers know they're taking on cap anyhow so if you get a Puljujarvi and a pick for your expensive veteran UFA-to-be (with a Cup ring of course), then you're going to be all over that.

There is absolutely no need to pay someone to take a guy on an expiring deal. You're better off keeping him and letting the deal lapse in the summer.

But we have Ken Holland and the merry band of nepotastic front office drones. There is not best alternative to no agreement when it's decided an agreement must be made, even if it's just to show everyone they're working hard on these agreements. I have very little faith.

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 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817187 is a reply to message #817186 ]
Tue, 24 January 2023 14:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 24 January 2023 14:14


But we have Ken Holland and the merry band of nepotastic front office drones. There is not best alternative to no agreement when it's decided an agreement must be made, even if it's just to show everyone they're working hard on these agreements. I have very little faith.


I'm of the belief that draft picks are meant to be traded, and that there's often really good reason to do so, but I will say that for all his reticence to make deals, Holland has flushed a lot of picks needlessly in his time here with very little benefit coming back.

It won't shock me to see them do a deal for the sake of a deal with a pick and Puljujarvi for a lesser pick...but man...that would definitely not be moving the needle any closer to a championship.

Mark Spector would be gleeful though.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817188 is a reply to message #817187 ]
Tue, 24 January 2023 14:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Tue, 24 January 2023 14:22

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 24 January 2023 14:14


But we have Ken Holland and the merry band of nepotastic front office drones. There is not best alternative to no agreement when it's decided an agreement must be made, even if it's just to show everyone they're working hard on these agreements. I have very little faith.


I'm of the belief that draft picks are meant to be traded, and that there's often really good reason to do so, but I will say that for all his reticence to make deals, Holland has flushed a lot of picks needlessly in his time here with very little benefit coming back.

It won't shock me to see them do a deal for the sake of a deal with a pick and Puljujarvi for a lesser pick...but man...that would definitely not be moving the needle any closer to a championship.

Mark Spector would be gleeful though.

I mean, if there's a trade to be had that obviously improves the team and you absolutely need 3 million dollars of cap space right freaking now, sure take too big of a loss on Puljujarvi to get it done. But again, Holland. We're going to get Edmundson.

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 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817183 is a reply to message #817179 ]
Tue, 24 January 2023 13:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 24 January 2023 13:49

I don't need to give my opinion about JP, it's know. I am with you on Yamo. I like his game when he is on but he doesn't help you on the trainers table and I am feeling like with the way he has to play, his size is a problem injury wise. I think he is a good player who doesn't have elite skill so he has to play a scrappy, physical game to be effective and at his size, he will end up being hurt a lot.

I think moving forward. JP won't be here. He probably gets traded in the next couple of weeks. Then in the offseason, at least 1 of Yamo or Foegele will also be gone.


Yeah Im a fan of kicking some more urgency into Foegele....getting him to produce...showcase him a bit more....and then trade him in the offseason. The #s aren't there this year...but whatever production he's been able to muster up has been at very timely moments which has helped the team out tremendously.

Here's to hoping for more timely production so they can get the best possible return this offseason

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 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817182 is a reply to message #817177 ]
Tue, 24 January 2023 13:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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Dragon_Matt wrote on Tue, 24 January 2023 12:10

If your window is the next 3 years, how can you hope to compete if you are paying Barrie, CHych and Bouch (who is getting a substantial raise this offseason)? If Bouchard is the one you want to keep, you can't have those three. That'll be 12+ million locked up on one side of our defense, + Nurse on the other side... cap hell, which means it's not actually a 3 year span, it's this year or nothing.

Phoenix won't eat half his cap hit unless we empty the cupboards for them. I don't see either of those occurring.


I would agree with at least one puck moving D man on each pairing, but the setup you argue for here just can't work without moving one of those other two.

If you are arguing for Chych, what would a trade look like in your vision? How could we pull it off and have the forwards as strong as we need and be cap compliant?

FYI - I really like both Broberg and Holloway too, but I'd easily part ways for a trade that made us better for the Mcwindow.


Chyrchun is way better than Tyson Barrie. And Tyson Barrie is moveable if you really need to deal him. Chychrun is also very affordable for this year and next. Don't believe anyone who suggests that Chychrun is similar to Barrie - it's just not accurate other than the fact that they both put up points.

Chychrun is also a left shot, unlike Barrie and Bouchard. You are incorrect to suggest he would be on the same side as them - he's probably playing with one of them or Ceci (which might be best, as Ceci/Nurse has had their struggles as a pair this year and could use a shuffle). He pushes Kulak down the roster and Murray off the roster (although I suspect Murray may be on the Turris retirement plan here, fading out to never be seen again). This summer, you'd probably look to off-load Kulak, because he'd be too expensive as a 7th defenceman. Again - he's probably a moveable asset, especially if we aren't looking for a home-run return.

If Broberg comes in and passes Chychrun or Nurse, then you can always trade Chychrun again later, and maybe even Nurse if there is a deal that makes sense there.

Chychrun would bolster our left side significantly and take minutes away from Nurse this year. That might help this team solidify to the point where they may be able to make a little noise in the playoffs, especially if the big boys go off again.

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 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817191 is a reply to message #817182 ]
Tue, 24 January 2023 19:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260 is currently offline smyth260
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The Oilers should also remember that Nurse was hurt for last years playoffs.

Nurse-Kulak-Broberg is not a cup winning left side when healthy. Another injury to Nurse would sink the whole thing. Adding Edmundson or Gakrikov doesn't add much assurance.

Chychrun does. That is the play here. It's real obvious to everyone but the people that matter.

This is the year to take the big swing.

Clean house or bust

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 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817193 is a reply to message #817191 ]
Wed, 25 January 2023 08:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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smyth260 wrote on Tue, 24 January 2023 19:40

The Oilers should also remember that Nurse was hurt for last years playoffs.

Nurse-Kulak-Broberg is not a cup winning left side when healthy. Another injury to Nurse would sink the whole thing. Adding Edmundson or Gakrikov doesn't add much assurance.

Chychrun does. That is the play here. It's real obvious to everyone but the people that matter.

This is the year to take the big swing.

Here is a counter to part of your argument.

The Oilers defense with Nurse - Keith - Kulak was good enough to make it to the West Final. That 3some had Keith who most people in here make out to be borderline useless and Nurse who could hardly skate and was hurt going into the playoffs. On top of the fact Leon could barely walk when his skate was off thanks to the Kings. I don't know if Nurse and Leon being healthy makes it if they go to the finals but I would bet they would have gave the Avs a better run that 4-0.

So let's say they go out and trade for Chychrun and it costs you Broberg. Then as you said, Nurse gets hurt, your left side would be:
Chychrun, Kulak Niemo/Murray. That's worse than last years where Nurse as maybe 60% if you were lucky.

If the Oilers lose Nurse, they are in trouble regardless if Chychrun is here. But if they go out and get a dman that maybe isn't as good as Chychrun that doesn't cost you Broberg as well as other assets. If Nurse goes down, being Broberg makes the defense a whole lot better than what I listed above. So I am fine to get Chychrun, I just would not do it if it cost you Broberg because I think that screws your team next season and moving forward.

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 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817195 is a reply to message #817193 ]
Wed, 25 January 2023 08:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 25 January 2023 08:14

smyth260 wrote on Tue, 24 January 2023 19:40

The Oilers should also remember that Nurse was hurt for last years playoffs.

Nurse-Kulak-Broberg is not a cup winning left side when healthy. Another injury to Nurse would sink the whole thing. Adding Edmundson or Gakrikov doesn't add much assurance.

Chychrun does. That is the play here. It's real obvious to everyone but the people that matter.

This is the year to take the big swing.

Here is a counter to part of your argument.

The Oilers defense with Nurse - Keith - Kulak was good enough to make it to the West Final. That 3some had Keith who most people in here make out to be borderline useless and Nurse who could hardly skate and was hurt going into the playoffs. On top of the fact Leon could barely walk when his skate was off thanks to the Kings. I don't know if Nurse and Leon being healthy makes it if they go to the finals but I would bet they would have gave the Avs a better run that 4-0.

So let's say they go out and trade for Chychrun and it costs you Broberg. Then as you said, Nurse gets hurt, your left side would be:
Chychrun, Kulak Niemo/Murray. That's worse than last years where Nurse as maybe 60% if you were lucky.

If the Oilers lose Nurse, they are in trouble regardless if Chychrun is here. But if they go out and get a dman that maybe isn't as good as Chychrun that doesn't cost you Broberg as well as other assets. If Nurse goes down, being Broberg makes the defense a whole lot better than what I listed above. So I am fine to get Chychrun, I just would not do it if it cost you Broberg because I think that screws your team next season and moving forward.

Here's the counter argument against all of that:

4,0,2,4,5,2,0,9,3,4,3,4,8,4,4,6

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817196 is a reply to message #817195 ]
Wed, 25 January 2023 08:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 25 January 2023 08:33

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 25 January 2023 08:14

smyth260 wrote on Tue, 24 January 2023 19:40

The Oilers should also remember that Nurse was hurt for last years playoffs.

Nurse-Kulak-Broberg is not a cup winning left side when healthy. Another injury to Nurse would sink the whole thing. Adding Edmundson or Gakrikov doesn't add much assurance.

Chychrun does. That is the play here. It's real obvious to everyone but the people that matter.

This is the year to take the big swing.

Here is a counter to part of your argument.

The Oilers defense with Nurse - Keith - Kulak was good enough to make it to the West Final. That 3some had Keith who most people in here make out to be borderline useless and Nurse who could hardly skate and was hurt going into the playoffs. On top of the fact Leon could barely walk when his skate was off thanks to the Kings. I don't know if Nurse and Leon being healthy makes it if they go to the finals but I would bet they would have gave the Avs a better run that 4-0.

So let's say they go out and trade for Chychrun and it costs you Broberg. Then as you said, Nurse gets hurt, your left side would be:
Chychrun, Kulak Niemo/Murray. That's worse than last years where Nurse as maybe 60% if you were lucky.

If the Oilers lose Nurse, they are in trouble regardless if Chychrun is here. But if they go out and get a dman that maybe isn't as good as Chychrun that doesn't cost you Broberg as well as other assets. If Nurse goes down, being Broberg makes the defense a whole lot better than what I listed above. So I am fine to get Chychrun, I just would not do it if it cost you Broberg because I think that screws your team next season and moving forward.

Here's the counter argument against all of that:

4,0,2,4,5,2,0,9,3,4,3,4,8,4,4,6

I have no clue what that is supposed to mean.

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 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817197 is a reply to message #817196 ]
Wed, 25 January 2023 08:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 25 January 2023 08:39

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 25 January 2023 08:33

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 25 January 2023 08:14

smyth260 wrote on Tue, 24 January 2023 19:40

The Oilers should also remember that Nurse was hurt for last years playoffs.

Nurse-Kulak-Broberg is not a cup winning left side when healthy. Another injury to Nurse would sink the whole thing. Adding Edmundson or Gakrikov doesn't add much assurance.

Chychrun does. That is the play here. It's real obvious to everyone but the people that matter.

This is the year to take the big swing.

Here is a counter to part of your argument.

The Oilers defense with Nurse - Keith - Kulak was good enough to make it to the West Final. That 3some had Keith who most people in here make out to be borderline useless and Nurse who could hardly skate and was hurt going into the playoffs. On top of the fact Leon could barely walk when his skate was off thanks to the Kings. I don't know if Nurse and Leon being healthy makes it if they go to the finals but I would bet they would have gave the Avs a better run that 4-0.

So let's say they go out and trade for Chychrun and it costs you Broberg. Then as you said, Nurse gets hurt, your left side would be:
Chychrun, Kulak Niemo/Murray. That's worse than last years where Nurse as maybe 60% if you were lucky.

If the Oilers lose Nurse, they are in trouble regardless if Chychrun is here. But if they go out and get a dman that maybe isn't as good as Chychrun that doesn't cost you Broberg as well as other assets. If Nurse goes down, being Broberg makes the defense a whole lot better than what I listed above. So I am fine to get Chychrun, I just would not do it if it cost you Broberg because I think that screws your team next season and moving forward.

Here's the counter argument against all of that:

4,0,2,4,5,2,0,9,3,4,3,4,8,4,4,6

I have no clue what that is supposed to mean.

Goals against in the playoffs. That western conference finals defense you speak of was bad. If the Oilers want to be taken seriously they have to do a lot better than Nurse - Keith - Kulak

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 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817199 is a reply to message #817197 ]
Wed, 25 January 2023 09:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 25 January 2023 08:46

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 25 January 2023 08:39

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 25 January 2023 08:33

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 25 January 2023 08:14

smyth260 wrote on Tue, 24 January 2023 19:40

The Oilers should also remember that Nurse was hurt for last years playoffs.

Nurse-Kulak-Broberg is not a cup winning left side when healthy. Another injury to Nurse would sink the whole thing. Adding Edmundson or Gakrikov doesn't add much assurance.

Chychrun does. That is the play here. It's real obvious to everyone but the people that matter.

This is the year to take the big swing.

Here is a counter to part of your argument.

The Oilers defense with Nurse - Keith - Kulak was good enough to make it to the West Final. That 3some had Keith who most people in here make out to be borderline useless and Nurse who could hardly skate and was hurt going into the playoffs. On top of the fact Leon could barely walk when his skate was off thanks to the Kings. I don't know if Nurse and Leon being healthy makes it if they go to the finals but I would bet they would have gave the Avs a better run that 4-0.

So let's say they go out and trade for Chychrun and it costs you Broberg. Then as you said, Nurse gets hurt, your left side would be:
Chychrun, Kulak Niemo/Murray. That's worse than last years where Nurse as maybe 60% if you were lucky.

If the Oilers lose Nurse, they are in trouble regardless if Chychrun is here. But if they go out and get a dman that maybe isn't as good as Chychrun that doesn't cost you Broberg as well as other assets. If Nurse goes down, being Broberg makes the defense a whole lot better than what I listed above. So I am fine to get Chychrun, I just would not do it if it cost you Broberg because I think that screws your team next season and moving forward.

Here's the counter argument against all of that:

4,0,2,4,5,2,0,9,3,4,3,4,8,4,4,6

I have no clue what that is supposed to mean.

Goals against in the playoffs. That western conference finals defense you speak of was bad. If the Oilers want to be taken seriously they have to do a lot better than Nurse - Keith - Kulak

I wasn't implying the defense was good but they also had at times has pretty hit or miss goaltending do that plays a part. And like I said, Nurse going into the playoffs was also quite hurt. A tear in your hip flexor is kind of a big deal. So I have to assume that would impact his play and the teams overall defense significantly. But they still managed to get to the West Finals with suspect goaltending and a defense that wasn't stellar.

I believe the goaltending is better this year now that both guys are playing solid. I also think that if they can make an addition to the defense, their defense with hopefully a way healthier Nurse will be a lot better.

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 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817201 is a reply to message #817199 ]
Wed, 25 January 2023 09:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 25 January 2023 09:08

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 25 January 2023 08:46

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 25 January 2023 08:39

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 25 January 2023 08:33

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 25 January 2023 08:14

smyth260 wrote on Tue, 24 January 2023 19:40

The Oilers should also remember that Nurse was hurt for last years playoffs.

Nurse-Kulak-Broberg is not a cup winning left side when healthy. Another injury to Nurse would sink the whole thing. Adding Edmundson or Gakrikov doesn't add much assurance.

Chychrun does. That is the play here. It's real obvious to everyone but the people that matter.

This is the year to take the big swing.

Here is a counter to part of your argument.

The Oilers defense with Nurse - Keith - Kulak was good enough to make it to the West Final. That 3some had Keith who most people in here make out to be borderline useless and Nurse who could hardly skate and was hurt going into the playoffs. On top of the fact Leon could barely walk when his skate was off thanks to the Kings. I don't know if Nurse and Leon being healthy makes it if they go to the finals but I would bet they would have gave the Avs a better run that 4-0.

So let's say they go out and trade for Chychrun and it costs you Broberg. Then as you said, Nurse gets hurt, your left side would be:
Chychrun, Kulak Niemo/Murray. That's worse than last years where Nurse as maybe 60% if you were lucky.

If the Oilers lose Nurse, they are in trouble regardless if Chychrun is here. But if they go out and get a dman that maybe isn't as good as Chychrun that doesn't cost you Broberg as well as other assets. If Nurse goes down, being Broberg makes the defense a whole lot better than what I listed above. So I am fine to get Chychrun, I just would not do it if it cost you Broberg because I think that screws your team next season and moving forward.

Here's the counter argument against all of that:

4,0,2,4,5,2,0,9,3,4,3,4,8,4,4,6

I have no clue what that is supposed to mean.

Goals against in the playoffs. That western conference finals defense you speak of was bad. If the Oilers want to be taken seriously they have to do a lot better than Nurse - Keith - Kulak

I wasn't implying the defense was good but they also had at times has pretty hit or miss goaltending do that plays a part. And like I said, Nurse going into the playoffs was also quite hurt. A tear in your hip flexor is kind of a big deal. So I have to assume that would impact his play and the teams overall defense significantly. But they still managed to get to the West Finals with suspect goaltending and a defense that wasn't stellar.

I believe the goaltending is better this year now that both guys are playing solid. I also think that if they can make an addition to the defense, their defense with hopefully a way healthier Nurse will be a lot better.

So 48 games into this season they're 27-18-3 and have given up 157 goals. Last year? Last year after 48 games they were 27-18-3 with 152 goals against. 5 of their defense (Nurse, Barrie, Bouchard, Kulak, and Ceci) have played every game.

The defense is still not anywhere near Stanley Cup level, they'll never be healthier, and the goaltending is still questionable.

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 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817202 is a reply to message #817201 ]
Wed, 25 January 2023 10:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 25 January 2023 09:57


So 48 games into this season they're 27-18-3 and have given up 157 goals. Last year? Last year after 48 games they were 27-18-3 with 152 goals against. 5 of their defense (Nurse, Barrie, Bouchard, Kulak, and Ceci) have played every game.

The defense is still not anywhere near Stanley Cup level, they'll never be healthier, and the goaltending is still questionable.


Yeah - I'm happy to see that the goalies aren't single-handedly sinking us night after night and that we've been able to string together some wins, including a couple that weren't against also-ran teams. That said, Campbell/Skinner is not exactly Vasilevskiy or Ullmark.

We got crushed by a team with a very mobile defence last year in the Colorado Avalanche. Look at that defence that beat us: Makar, Toews, Girard, Johnson, Byram, Manson. The majority of them are puck-movers. Even Manson had 8 post-season points last year and isn't awful at advancing the puck. Not an Edmundson to be found in that lineup.

Someone like Toews or Girard might get powerplay opportunities playing for a different team. Byram almost certainly would. That hasn't stopped the Avalanche from loading up on that kind of defenceman, because if your third pairing is also great at moving the puck, then you are significantly better off.

I think "shutdown defenceman" is a slowly dying breed because good teams understand that transition to attack is just much more valuable than a guy who's rough in the corners and blocks a lot of shots. Like with forward lines, the stupid teams are going to try to continue with the idea of different roles for different parts of the lineup, while the smart teams are going to load up and have internal competition to advance because in reality, the job for first liners and fourth liners, or top pairing and bottom pairing defencemen are the same. Out-score the opposition. And you'll do better at that if you play more of the time in the other team's zone.

Sadly, our management team is littered with the decaying corpses of old hockey guys, so I don't expect us to be cutting edge here any time soon.


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 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817203 is a reply to message #817202 ]
Wed, 25 January 2023 10:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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"Shutdown guy" doesn't have to be the big, barely skates guy that just beats the hell out of you and fires it off the glass. Shut down guy can be a dman who knows how to defend. When he's in his own end, he doesn't all of a sudden forget to pick up the man like many of the Oilers dmen seem to do. The guy that in the last min, isn't throwing a grenade pass up the middle to try and send a guy in on a break away for the empty net that gets picked off like we see now. He's a guy when in the 3rd up by a couple of goals, he decides not to do the risky pinch that often goes the other way now.

Just because a dman actually knows how to defend, doesn't mean its bringing in an old school dman from decades ago. I just want the team to get another dman who in a tight game, you know they are going to do the right thing most of the time or tell their partner the right thing to do vs the 50-50 we have right now with many of them. To tell the Bouchard's that when you are up late in the 3rd, that's not the best time to decide to do a high risk pinch so you can maybe score a goal yourself when there is no one back and it's Ok to make the safe play sometimes.

[Updated on: Wed, 25 January 2023 10:48]

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 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817210 is a reply to message #817203 ]
Wed, 25 January 2023 11:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 25 January 2023 10:32

"Shutdown guy" doesn't have to be the big, barely skates guy that just beats the hell out of you and fires it off the glass. Shut down guy can be a dman who knows how to defend. When he's in his own end, he doesn't all of a sudden forget to pick up the man like many of the Oilers dmen seem to do. The guy that in the last min, isn't throwing a grenade pass up the middle to try and send a guy in on a break away for the empty net that gets picked off like we see now. He's a guy when in the 3rd up by a couple of goals, he decides not to do the risky pinch that often goes the other way now.

Just because a dman actually knows how to defend, doesn't mean its bringing in an old school dman from decades ago. I just want the team to get another dman who in a tight game, you know they are going to do the right thing most of the time or tell their partner the right thing to do vs the 50-50 we have right now with many of them. To tell the Bouchard's that when you are up late in the 3rd, that's not the best time to decide to do a high risk pinch so you can maybe score a goal yourself when there is no one back and it's Ok to make the safe play sometimes.


I think you'd be hard-pressed to find examples of Bouchard doing what you've just said. That sounds like narrative-driven, rather than evidence-driven.

The problem is that we ARE seeing speculation that the Oilers WANT to add an old school, unhelpful piece like Edmundson. There's been a huge amount of smoke around that for almost all season.

And adding mediocre defencemen at the deadline has kind of been the calling card for Holland in his whole time here.

In 2020 - we sent a 4th round pick and injured Brodziak for Mike Green. In 2021, it was a 4th round pick for Kulikov. In 2022, we sent Lagesson, a 2nd round pick and a 7th round pick for Kulak. And we're sitting on all our picks outside of the 4th round this year, so well positioned to make another deal for another guy who won't pick up Nurse's minutes if he goes down.

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 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817213 is a reply to message #817210 ]
Wed, 25 January 2023 12:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Adam wrote on Wed, 25 January 2023 11:58

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 25 January 2023 10:32

"Shutdown guy" doesn't have to be the big, barely skates guy that just beats the hell out of you and fires it off the glass. Shut down guy can be a dman who knows how to defend. When he's in his own end, he doesn't all of a sudden forget to pick up the man like many of the Oilers dmen seem to do. The guy that in the last min, isn't throwing a grenade pass up the middle to try and send a guy in on a break away for the empty net that gets picked off like we see now. He's a guy when in the 3rd up by a couple of goals, he decides not to do the risky pinch that often goes the other way now.

Just because a dman actually knows how to defend, doesn't mean its bringing in an old school dman from decades ago. I just want the team to get another dman who in a tight game, you know they are going to do the right thing most of the time or tell their partner the right thing to do vs the 50-50 we have right now with many of them. To tell the Bouchard's that when you are up late in the 3rd, that's not the best time to decide to do a high risk pinch so you can maybe score a goal yourself when there is no one back and it's Ok to make the safe play sometimes.


I think you'd be hard-pressed to find examples of Bouchard doing what you've just said. That sounds like narrative-driven, rather than evidence-driven.

The problem is that we ARE seeing speculation that the Oilers WANT to add an old school, unhelpful piece like Edmundson. There's been a huge amount of smoke around that for almost all season.

And adding mediocre defencemen at the deadline has kind of been the calling card for Holland in his whole time here.

In 2020 - we sent a 4th round pick and injured Brodziak for Mike Green. In 2021, it was a 4th round pick for Kulikov. In 2022, we sent Lagesson, a 2nd round pick and a 7th round pick for Kulak. And we're sitting on all our picks outside of the 4th round this year, so well positioned to make another deal for another guy who won't pick up Nurse's minutes if he goes down.

I thought Chychrun was only under contract for this year and next. He's at 4.6 million through the 2025 Cup. That's easily worth two first round picks. It's time for some MacTavish levels of BOLD. BOLD!

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 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817204 is a reply to message #817193 ]
Wed, 25 January 2023 10:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 25 January 2023 07:14


So let's say they go out and trade for Chychrun and it costs you Broberg. Then as you said, Nurse gets hurt, your left side would be:
Chychrun, Kulak Niemo/Murray. That's worse than last years where Nurse as maybe 60% if you were lucky.



But it's better than than Kulak, Edmundson, Broberg. Chychrun is currently playing over 23 min a night in Arizona. He can handle bigger minutes in the playoffs if Nurse gets hurt.

The main point though is that the Oilers defence is currently not good enough. Edmundson or Gavrikov don't change that. There are no guarantees of course, but Chychrun just might. And he's signed for 2 more years at $4.6M. That's a great contract and fits into the Oilers window (Drai also has 2 more years on his deal).

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817205 is a reply to message #817204 ]
Wed, 25 January 2023 10:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Goose wrote on Wed, 25 January 2023 10:48

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 25 January 2023 07:14


So let's say they go out and trade for Chychrun and it costs you Broberg. Then as you said, Nurse gets hurt, your left side would be:
Chychrun, Kulak Niemo/Murray. That's worse than last years where Nurse as maybe 60% if you were lucky.



But it's better than than Kulak, Edmundson, Broberg. Chychrun is currently playing over 23 min a night in Arizona. He can handle bigger minutes in the playoffs if Nurse gets hurt.

The main point though is that the Oilers defence is currently not good enough. Edmundson or Gavrikov don't change that. There are no guarantees of course, but Chychrun just might. And he's signed for 2 more years at $4.6M. That's a great contract and fits into the Oilers window (Drai also has 2 more years on his deal).

I am not debating the defense needs to improve. I just don't think blowing your whole wad asset wise is a great idea for Chychrun, a guy who every year misses significant time and who in my opinion doesn't check all the boxes they need and who his calling card is things the Oilers already have lots of.

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 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817211 is a reply to message #817205 ]
Wed, 25 January 2023 12:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 25 January 2023 10:51

Goose wrote on Wed, 25 January 2023 10:48

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 25 January 2023 07:14


So let's say they go out and trade for Chychrun and it costs you Broberg. Then as you said, Nurse gets hurt, your left side would be:
Chychrun, Kulak Niemo/Murray. That's worse than last years where Nurse as maybe 60% if you were lucky.



But it's better than than Kulak, Edmundson, Broberg. Chychrun is currently playing over 23 min a night in Arizona. He can handle bigger minutes in the playoffs if Nurse gets hurt.

The main point though is that the Oilers defence is currently not good enough. Edmundson or Gavrikov don't change that. There are no guarantees of course, but Chychrun just might. And he's signed for 2 more years at $4.6M. That's a great contract and fits into the Oilers window (Drai also has 2 more years on his deal).

I am not debating the defense needs to improve. I just don't think blowing your whole wad asset wise is a great idea for Chychrun, a guy who every year misses significant time and who in my opinion doesn't check all the boxes they need and who his calling card is things the Oilers already have lots of.


No one is advocating "blowing your whole wad asset wise". No one is suggesting that Holland should be sending anyone a blank cheque, and in fact, most of the criticism is that he tends not to be a good enough negotiator and surrenders more than he should in trades.

I think the argument is that A) the team has a very limited window now to compete for a Stanley Cup with the superstars we have. B) The team isn't currently good enough, and the future after the McDavid/Draisaitl window is really not important. C) There's no one that should be untouchable after those guys IF IT IMPROVES THE TEAM. D) A guy like Edmundson or Gavrikov doesn't move the needle and isn't going to make the team a contender or likely make us able to beat Colorado, Boston, Tampa, Toronto or any of the other real contenders.

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 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817212 is a reply to message #817211 ]
Wed, 25 January 2023 12:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Babaganoosh2.0 is currently offline Babaganoosh2.0
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Adam wrote on Wed, 25 January 2023 12:03

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 25 January 2023 10:51

Goose wrote on Wed, 25 January 2023 10:48

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 25 January 2023 07:14


So let's say they go out and trade for Chychrun and it costs you Broberg. Then as you said, Nurse gets hurt, your left side would be:
Chychrun, Kulak Niemo/Murray. That's worse than last years where Nurse as maybe 60% if you were lucky.



But it's better than than Kulak, Edmundson, Broberg. Chychrun is currently playing over 23 min a night in Arizona. He can handle bigger minutes in the playoffs if Nurse gets hurt.

The main point though is that the Oilers defence is currently not good enough. Edmundson or Gavrikov don't change that. There are no guarantees of course, but Chychrun just might. And he's signed for 2 more years at $4.6M. That's a great contract and fits into the Oilers window (Drai also has 2 more years on his deal).

I am not debating the defense needs to improve. I just don't think blowing your whole wad asset wise is a great idea for Chychrun, a guy who every year misses significant time and who in my opinion doesn't check all the boxes they need and who his calling card is things the Oilers already have lots of.


No one is advocating "blowing your whole wad asset wise". No one is suggesting that Holland should be sending anyone a blank cheque, and in fact, most of the criticism is that he tends not to be a good enough negotiator and surrenders more than he should in trades.

I think the argument is that A) the team has a very limited window now to compete for a Stanley Cup with the superstars we have. B) The team isn't currently good enough, and the future after the McDavid/Draisaitl window is really not important. C) There's no one that should be untouchable after those guys IF IT IMPROVES THE TEAM. D) A guy like Edmundson or Gavrikov doesn't move the needle and isn't going to make the team a contender or likely make us able to beat Colorado, Boston, Tampa, Toronto or any of the other real contenders.


Agreed. If we are going to spend assets it needs to be on a impact player. I'd almost be for making a run at Karlsson. Anyway they take Nurse and retain a few million of Karlssons contract. ( pipe dream I know).


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 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817215 is a reply to message #817211 ]
Wed, 25 January 2023 12:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Wed, 25 January 2023 12:03

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 25 January 2023 10:51

Goose wrote on Wed, 25 January 2023 10:48

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 25 January 2023 07:14


So let's say they go out and trade for Chychrun and it costs you Broberg. Then as you said, Nurse gets hurt, your left side would be:
Chychrun, Kulak Niemo/Murray. That's worse than last years where Nurse as maybe 60% if you were lucky.



But it's better than than Kulak, Edmundson, Broberg. Chychrun is currently playing over 23 min a night in Arizona. He can handle bigger minutes in the playoffs if Nurse gets hurt.

The main point though is that the Oilers defence is currently not good enough. Edmundson or Gavrikov don't change that. There are no guarantees of course, but Chychrun just might. And he's signed for 2 more years at $4.6M. That's a great contract and fits into the Oilers window (Drai also has 2 more years on his deal).

I am not debating the defense needs to improve. I just don't think blowing your whole wad asset wise is a great idea for Chychrun, a guy who every year misses significant time and who in my opinion doesn't check all the boxes they need and who his calling card is things the Oilers already have lots of.


No one is advocating "blowing your whole wad asset wise". No one is suggesting that Holland should be sending anyone a blank cheque, and in fact, most of the criticism is that he tends not to be a good enough negotiator and surrenders more than he should in trades.

I think the argument is that A) the team has a very limited window now to compete for a Stanley Cup with the superstars we have. B) The team isn't currently good enough, and the future after the McDavid/Draisaitl window is really not important. C) There's no one that should be untouchable after those guys IF IT IMPROVES THE TEAM. D) A guy like Edmundson or Gavrikov doesn't move the needle and isn't going to make the team a contender or likely make us able to beat Colorado, Boston, Tampa, Toronto or any of the other real contenders.

Maybe you have differing opinions on what blowing the wad is but I would say giving up the 2023 first considering this draft is supposedly a very deep and very good draft AND giving up Broberg who's already an NHL dman and looks to be a legit at min second pairing guy in the extremely near future, all to bring in Chychrun who's a good second pairing dman, I would consider blowing the wad. Especially given his injury history. If the trade happened, I wouldn't expect him to play a full season ever for the Oilers. He will miss significant time because the body of his work says he will.

[Updated on: Wed, 25 January 2023 12:35]

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 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817216 is a reply to message #817215 ]
Wed, 25 January 2023 12:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 25 January 2023 12:31

Adam wrote on Wed, 25 January 2023 12:03

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 25 January 2023 10:51

Goose wrote on Wed, 25 January 2023 10:48

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 25 January 2023 07:14


So let's say they go out and trade for Chychrun and it costs you Broberg. Then as you said, Nurse gets hurt, your left side would be:
Chychrun, Kulak Niemo/Murray. That's worse than last years where Nurse as maybe 60% if you were lucky.



But it's better than than Kulak, Edmundson, Broberg. Chychrun is currently playing over 23 min a night in Arizona. He can handle bigger minutes in the playoffs if Nurse gets hurt.

The main point though is that the Oilers defence is currently not good enough. Edmundson or Gavrikov don't change that. There are no guarantees of course, but Chychrun just might. And he's signed for 2 more years at $4.6M. That's a great contract and fits into the Oilers window (Drai also has 2 more years on his deal).

I am not debating the defense needs to improve. I just don't think blowing your whole wad asset wise is a great idea for Chychrun, a guy who every year misses significant time and who in my opinion doesn't check all the boxes they need and who his calling card is things the Oilers already have lots of.


No one is advocating "blowing your whole wad asset wise". No one is suggesting that Holland should be sending anyone a blank cheque, and in fact, most of the criticism is that he tends not to be a good enough negotiator and surrenders more than he should in trades.

I think the argument is that A) the team has a very limited window now to compete for a Stanley Cup with the superstars we have. B) The team isn't currently good enough, and the future after the McDavid/Draisaitl window is really not important. C) There's no one that should be untouchable after those guys IF IT IMPROVES THE TEAM. D) A guy like Edmundson or Gavrikov doesn't move the needle and isn't going to make the team a contender or likely make us able to beat Colorado, Boston, Tampa, Toronto or any of the other real contenders.

Maybe you have differing opinions on what blowing the wad is but I would say giving up the 2023 first considering this draft is supposedly a very deep and very good draft AND giving up Broberg who's already an NHL dman and looks to be a legit at min second pairing guy in the extremely near future, all to bring in Chychrun who's a good second pairing dman, I would consider blowing the wad.

Broberg's played 22 games this year, 23 last year, and 3 minutes in the playoffs. I know he's looked good for the last 2 weeks, but let's not pretend he's anything but a raw rookie playing a tough position. Assuming these kids are going to either continue their play or simply get better as they age fast enough to win a cup is exactly what got the Oilers mired in slightly above average mediocrity in the first place. Broberg might turn into a key piece on a Stanley Cup team in the next three years, but he might not. It would certainly be foolish to count on him for anything but rookie minutes this playoffs.

Fun schedule this year:

Between now and Feb 25th the Oilers play 3 playoff teams (NYR, Col, Pit) then we get to watch:
Feb 27 vs Boston
Mar 1 vs Toronto
Mar 3 vs Winnipeg <deadline day>
Mar 4 @ Winnipeg
Mar 6 @ Buffalo
Mar 9 @ Boston
March 11 @ Toronto

The Oilers might very well talk themselves into being something they're not during marshmallow soft time and hit a wall at the deadline when it's too late to do anything.

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 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817217 is a reply to message #817216 ]
Wed, 25 January 2023 12:48 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 3693
Registered: January 2016
3 Cups
CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 25 January 2023 12:41

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 25 January 2023 12:31

Adam wrote on Wed, 25 January 2023 12:03

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 25 January 2023 10:51

Goose wrote on Wed, 25 January 2023 10:48

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 25 January 2023 07:14


So let's say they go out and trade for Chychrun and it costs you Broberg. Then as you said, Nurse gets hurt, your left side would be:
Chychrun, Kulak Niemo/Murray. That's worse than last years where Nurse as maybe 60% if you were lucky.



But it's better than than Kulak, Edmundson, Broberg. Chychrun is currently playing over 23 min a night in Arizona. He can handle bigger minutes in the playoffs if Nurse gets hurt.

The main point though is that the Oilers defence is currently not good enough. Edmundson or Gavrikov don't change that. There are no guarantees of course, but Chychrun just might. And he's signed for 2 more years at $4.6M. That's a great contract and fits into the Oilers window (Drai also has 2 more years on his deal).

I am not debating the defense needs to improve. I just don't think blowing your whole wad asset wise is a great idea for Chychrun, a guy who every year misses significant time and who in my opinion doesn't check all the boxes they need and who his calling card is things the Oilers already have lots of.


No one is advocating "blowing your whole wad asset wise". No one is suggesting that Holland should be sending anyone a blank cheque, and in fact, most of the criticism is that he tends not to be a good enough negotiator and surrenders more than he should in trades.

I think the argument is that A) the team has a very limited window now to compete for a Stanley Cup with the superstars we have. B) The team isn't currently good enough, and the future after the McDavid/Draisaitl window is really not important. C) There's no one that should be untouchable after those guys IF IT IMPROVES THE TEAM. D) A guy like Edmundson or Gavrikov doesn't move the needle and isn't going to make the team a contender or likely make us able to beat Colorado, Boston, Tampa, Toronto or any of the other real contenders.

Maybe you have differing opinions on what blowing the wad is but I would say giving up the 2023 first considering this draft is supposedly a very deep and very good draft AND giving up Broberg who's already an NHL dman and looks to be a legit at min second pairing guy in the extremely near future, all to bring in Chychrun who's a good second pairing dman, I would consider blowing the wad.

Broberg's played 22 games this year, 23 last year, and 3 minutes in the playoffs. I know he's looked good for the last 2 weeks, but let's not pretend he's anything but a raw rookie playing a tough position. Assuming these kids are going to either continue their play or simply get better as they age fast enough to win a cup is exactly what got the Oilers mired in slightly above average mediocrity in the first place. Broberg might turn into a key piece on a Stanley Cup team in the next three years, but he might not. It would certainly be foolish to count on him for anything but rookie minutes this playoffs.

Fun schedule this year:

Between now and Feb 25th the Oilers play 3 playoff teams (NYR, Col, Pit) then we get to watch:
Feb 27 vs Boston
Mar 1 vs Toronto
Mar 3 vs Winnipeg <deadline day>
Mar 4 @ Winnipeg
Mar 6 @ Buffalo
Mar 9 @ Boston
March 11 @ Toronto

The Oilers might very well talk themselves into being something they're not during marshmallow soft time and hit a wall at the deadline when it's too late to do anything.

If I am going to trade Broberg, I want a guy like Ekholm. A guy who skates decent, can move the puck a little, can score some points but most importantly is big, mean, physical, defends very well, plays on the PK a lot and has done that for many years. He also has playoff experience. You put him on the second pair and you know you get 20 mins of good hockey every night.

I know Chychrun is the shiny toy but he has a bad injury history, does not play on the PK and I am sorry, he is not a great defender. That isn't is calling card.

[Updated on: Wed, 25 January 2023 12:59]

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 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817218 is a reply to message #817217 ]
Wed, 25 January 2023 12:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
Messages: 7635
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100
6 Cups
RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 25 January 2023 12:48

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 25 January 2023 12:41

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 25 January 2023 12:31

Adam wrote on Wed, 25 January 2023 12:03

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 25 January 2023 10:51

Goose wrote on Wed, 25 January 2023 10:48

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 25 January 2023 07:14


So let's say they go out and trade for Chychrun and it costs you Broberg. Then as you said, Nurse gets hurt, your left side would be:
Chychrun, Kulak Niemo/Murray. That's worse than last years where Nurse as maybe 60% if you were lucky.



But it's better than than Kulak, Edmundson, Broberg. Chychrun is currently playing over 23 min a night in Arizona. He can handle bigger minutes in the playoffs if Nurse gets hurt.

The main point though is that the Oilers defence is currently not good enough. Edmundson or Gavrikov don't change that. There are no guarantees of course, but Chychrun just might. And he's signed for 2 more years at $4.6M. That's a great contract and fits into the Oilers window (Drai also has 2 more years on his deal).

I am not debating the defense needs to improve. I just don't think blowing your whole wad asset wise is a great idea for Chychrun, a guy who every year misses significant time and who in my opinion doesn't check all the boxes they need and who his calling card is things the Oilers already have lots of.


No one is advocating "blowing your whole wad asset wise". No one is suggesting that Holland should be sending anyone a blank cheque, and in fact, most of the criticism is that he tends not to be a good enough negotiator and surrenders more than he should in trades.

I think the argument is that A) the team has a very limited window now to compete for a Stanley Cup with the superstars we have. B) The team isn't currently good enough, and the future after the McDavid/Draisaitl window is really not important. C) There's no one that should be untouchable after those guys IF IT IMPROVES THE TEAM. D) A guy like Edmundson or Gavrikov doesn't move the needle and isn't going to make the team a contender or likely make us able to beat Colorado, Boston, Tampa, Toronto or any of the other real contenders.

Maybe you have differing opinions on what blowing the wad is but I would say giving up the 2023 first considering this draft is supposedly a very deep and very good draft AND giving up Broberg who's already an NHL dman and looks to be a legit at min second pairing guy in the extremely near future, all to bring in Chychrun who's a good second pairing dman, I would consider blowing the wad.

Broberg's played 22 games this year, 23 last year, and 3 minutes in the playoffs. I know he's looked good for the last 2 weeks, but let's not pretend he's anything but a raw rookie playing a tough position. Assuming these kids are going to either continue their play or simply get better as they age fast enough to win a cup is exactly what got the Oilers mired in slightly above average mediocrity in the first place. Broberg might turn into a key piece on a Stanley Cup team in the next three years, but he might not. It would certainly be foolish to count on him for anything but rookie minutes this playoffs.

Fun schedule this year:

Between now and Feb 25th the Oilers play 3 playoff teams (NYR, Col, Pit) then we get to watch:
Feb 27 vs Boston
Mar 1 vs Toronto
Mar 3 vs Winnipeg <deadline day>
Mar 4 @ Winnipeg
Mar 6 @ Buffalo
Mar 9 @ Boston
March 11 @ Toronto

The Oilers might very well talk themselves into being something they're not during marshmallow soft time and hit a wall at the deadline when it's too late to do anything.

If I am going to trade Broberg, I want a guy like Ekholm. A guy who skates decent, can move the puck a little, can score some points but most importantly is big, mean, physical, defends very well, plays on the PK a lot and has done that for many years. He also has playoff experience. You put him on the second pair and you know you get 20 mins of good hockey every night.

I know Chychrun is the shiny toy but he has a bad injury history, does not play on the PK and I am sorry, he is not a great defender. That isn't is calling card.

Sure, I'd take Ekholm (assuming he can still play, I haven't watched much Nashville this year). He might be a little old by the end of his contract, but he should be good for the next little while.

I'm glad we've got an agreement. Trade for Ekholm. Adam, you in?

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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