GuestLogin / Register

This day on April 19
None

Happy Birthday To: jari17, trehorse, 5mowill, Dragon_Matt, smyth2007

OILERS INFOOILFANS
Friday, Apr 19, 2024 12:14 AM MT
F.A.Q. Terms of Use F.A.Q. F.A.Q.
Members Members   Search Search     Register Register   Login Login   Home Home
 Speculation » 2022-23 Trade Speculation ThreadPages (12): [ «  <  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  >  »]
Switch to flat viewSwitch to tree viewCreate a new topicSubmit Reply
 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817956 is a reply to message #817955 ]
Sun, 12 February 2023 16:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm is currently offline Oscargasm
Messages: 5649
Registered: May 2009
Location: YEG
5 Cups
Kr55 wrote on Sun, 12 February 2023 16:42

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Sun, 12 February 2023 15:45

Something interesting I heard.

To San Jose

Warren Foegele
Jesse Puljujärvi
2023 1st Round Pick
2023 2nd Round Pick

To Edmonton

Erik Karlsson ( 50% retained)


It gives us one of the best defensemen in the league and the cap hit is a wash at 5.75. Those picks hopefully wont mean much to us anyway. We need to be all in now.


Figure SJ would want more, no? THe only rebuild value is a 1st and 2nd. Thinking they would want another 1st at least. Or Broberg/Bouch.


Think more along the lines of;

To SJ:
Barrie
Puljujarvi
Petrov
2023 1st
2025 1st

To Arizona:
2024 1st

To Edmonton:
Karlsson at 60% (SJ retains 20% and they pay the 24 1st to have Arizona to take 20%)

Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
OG's #MUSTWIN Scale
Category 1 - Lightly Musty
Category 2 - Moderately Musty
Category 3 - Considerably Musty
Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817958 is a reply to message #817956 ]
Sun, 12 February 2023 17:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Babaganoosh2.0 is currently offline Babaganoosh2.0
Messages: 396
Registered: December 2018
Location: Southern AB
No Cups
Oscargasm wrote on Sun, 12 February 2023 16:53

Kr55 wrote on Sun, 12 February 2023 16:42

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Sun, 12 February 2023 15:45

Something interesting I heard.

To San Jose

Warren Foegele
Jesse Puljujärvi
2023 1st Round Pick
2023 2nd Round Pick

To Edmonton

Erik Karlsson ( 50% retained)


It gives us one of the best defensemen in the league and the cap hit is a wash at 5.75. Those picks hopefully wont mean much to us anyway. We need to be all in now.


Figure SJ would want more, no? THe only rebuild value is a 1st and 2nd. Thinking they would want another 1st at least. Or Broberg/Bouch.


Think more along the lines of;

To SJ:
Barrie
Puljujarvi
Petrov
2023 1st
2025 1st

To Arizona:
2024 1st

To Edmonton:
Karlsson at 60% (SJ retains 20% and they pay the 24 1st to have Arizona to take 20%)



I think you may be over estimating his value. I dont think it will take a team three 1st round picks and a two roster players and a prospect to get him.

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817961 is a reply to message #817958 ]
Sun, 12 February 2023 17:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 9535
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
6 Cups
Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Sun, 12 February 2023 17:08

Oscargasm wrote on Sun, 12 February 2023 16:53

Kr55 wrote on Sun, 12 February 2023 16:42

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Sun, 12 February 2023 15:45

Something interesting I heard.

To San Jose

Warren Foegele
Jesse Puljujärvi
2023 1st Round Pick
2023 2nd Round Pick

To Edmonton

Erik Karlsson ( 50% retained)


It gives us one of the best defensemen in the league and the cap hit is a wash at 5.75. Those picks hopefully wont mean much to us anyway. We need to be all in now.


Figure SJ would want more, no? THe only rebuild value is a 1st and 2nd. Thinking they would want another 1st at least. Or Broberg/Bouch.


Think more along the lines of;

To SJ:
Barrie
Puljujarvi
Petrov
2023 1st
2025 1st

To Arizona:
2024 1st

To Edmonton:
Karlsson at 60% (SJ retains 20% and they pay the 24 1st to have Arizona to take 20%)



I think you may be over estimating his value. I dont think it will take a team three 1st round picks and a two roster players and a prospect to get him.


SJ ended up paying #3 OA and 2 2nds, Josh Norris and some more players. I think for OIlers equivalent that is basically like 3 1sts and a good prospect. He's also having a career year and is literally 4th in overall scoring right now. We would be buying at the height of his value. Getting SJ to retain salary is also worth a 1st alone.

I think we'll be paying out the nose if we do go after him.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817962 is a reply to message #817961 ]
Sun, 12 February 2023 18:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Babaganoosh2.0 is currently offline Babaganoosh2.0
Messages: 396
Registered: December 2018
Location: Southern AB
No Cups
Kr55 wrote on Sun, 12 February 2023 17:56

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Sun, 12 February 2023 17:08

Oscargasm wrote on Sun, 12 February 2023 16:53

Kr55 wrote on Sun, 12 February 2023 16:42

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Sun, 12 February 2023 15:45

Something interesting I heard.

To San Jose

Warren Foegele
Jesse Puljujärvi
2023 1st Round Pick
2023 2nd Round Pick

To Edmonton

Erik Karlsson ( 50% retained)


It gives us one of the best defensemen in the league and the cap hit is a wash at 5.75. Those picks hopefully wont mean much to us anyway. We need to be all in now.


Figure SJ would want more, no? THe only rebuild value is a 1st and 2nd. Thinking they would want another 1st at least. Or Broberg/Bouch.


Think more along the lines of;

To SJ:
Barrie
Puljujarvi
Petrov
2023 1st
2025 1st

To Arizona:
2024 1st

To Edmonton:
Karlsson at 60% (SJ retains 20% and they pay the 24 1st to have Arizona to take 20%)



I think you may be over estimating his value. I dont think it will take a team three 1st round picks and a two roster players and a prospect to get him.


SJ ended up paying #3 OA and 2 2nds, Josh Norris and some more players. I think for OIlers equivalent that is basically like 3 1sts and a good prospect. He's also having a career year and is literally 4th in overall scoring right now. We would be buying at the height of his value. Getting SJ to retain salary is also worth a 1st alone.

I think we'll be paying out the nose if we do go after him.

He also demanded a trade and has a NMC. That will hurt the return SJ can expect.

Pronger was traded for Joffrey Lupul, Ladislav Smid and what would-be first-round picks in 2007 and 2008. He was also moved after publicly requesting a trade. I see this more as the return SJ will get. Or maybe SJ will wait until the off-season where more suitors could be in play.

[Updated on: Sun, 12 February 2023 18:52]

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817963 is a reply to message #817962 ]
Sun, 12 February 2023 18:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 9535
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
6 Cups
Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Sun, 12 February 2023 18:46

Kr55 wrote on Sun, 12 February 2023 17:56

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Sun, 12 February 2023 17:08

Oscargasm wrote on Sun, 12 February 2023 16:53

Kr55 wrote on Sun, 12 February 2023 16:42

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Sun, 12 February 2023 15:45

Something interesting I heard.

To San Jose

Warren Foegele
Jesse Puljujärvi
2023 1st Round Pick
2023 2nd Round Pick

To Edmonton

Erik Karlsson ( 50% retained)


It gives us one of the best defensemen in the league and the cap hit is a wash at 5.75. Those picks hopefully wont mean much to us anyway. We need to be all in now.


Figure SJ would want more, no? THe only rebuild value is a 1st and 2nd. Thinking they would want another 1st at least. Or Broberg/Bouch.


Think more along the lines of;

To SJ:
Barrie
Puljujarvi
Petrov
2023 1st
2025 1st

To Arizona:
2024 1st

To Edmonton:
Karlsson at 60% (SJ retains 20% and they pay the 24 1st to have Arizona to take 20%)



I think you may be over estimating his value. I dont think it will take a team three 1st round picks and a two roster players and a prospect to get him.


SJ ended up paying #3 OA and 2 2nds, Josh Norris and some more players. I think for OIlers equivalent that is basically like 3 1sts and a good prospect. He's also having a career year and is literally 4th in overall scoring right now. We would be buying at the height of his value. Getting SJ to retain salary is also worth a 1st alone.

I think we'll be paying out the nose if we do go after him.

He also demanded a trade and has a NMC. That will hurt the return SJ can expect.

Pronger was traded for Joffrey Lupul, Ladislav Smid and what would-be first-round picks in 2007 and 2008. He was also moved after publicly requesting a trade. I see this more as the return SJ will get.



If we had a GM that has shown the ability to take advantage of other teams, I would be inclined to agree. We have a guy that gets the short end almost every time though. In fact, he insists it is impossible to take advantage of another team.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817957 is a reply to message #817955 ]
Sun, 12 February 2023 17:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Babaganoosh2.0 is currently offline Babaganoosh2.0
Messages: 396
Registered: December 2018
Location: Southern AB
No Cups
Kr55 wrote on Sun, 12 February 2023 16:42

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Sun, 12 February 2023 15:45

Something interesting I heard.

To San Jose

Warren Foegele
Jesse Puljujärvi
2023 1st Round Pick
2023 2nd Round Pick

To Edmonton

Erik Karlsson ( 50% retained)


It gives us one of the best defensemen in the league and the cap hit is a wash at 5.75. Those picks hopefully wont mean much to us anyway. We need to be all in now.


Figure SJ would want more, no? THe only rebuild value is a 1st and 2nd. Thinking they would want another 1st at least. Or Broberg/Bouch.
Maybe include the 2024 1st round pick on the condition the Oilers make the finals ala the Pronger trade. Also the player has asked to be traded and has a no move clause which typically drives down value.

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817966 is a reply to message #815007 ]
Sun, 12 February 2023 21:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 9535
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
6 Cups
I don't know if people here know this, but, little known fact, Ken Holland traded for Chris Chelios. The price was 2 1sts and a former 1st round pick. Chelios was 37 at the time.

Is Karlsson going to be Holland's repeat of the Chelios trade?

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817967 is a reply to message #817966 ]
Sun, 12 February 2023 22:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
Messages: 6803
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
Kr55 wrote on Sun, 12 February 2023 21:13

I don't know if people here know this, but, little known fact, Ken Holland traded for Chris Chelios. The price was 2 1sts and a former 1st round pick. Chelios was 37 at the time.

Is Karlsson going to be Holland's repeat of the Chelios trade?


I mean, that's the problem in a nutshell. The team is poorly constructed and has a couple of deep flaws that require bold moves in order to rectify - something along the lines of a 2006 Kevin Lowe year really. We need an upgrade at first pairing defence, and a top six forward. Neither of those things will come cheap, and at least one may require a temporary solution, rather than getting "someone with term" or "under team control".

The guy we have in charge is just woefully ill-equipped to do this. He has no history of success in trades, he doesn't believe in using a team's weakness to get a better deal for himself, and he doesn't understand either leverage or the requirement to hold your cards close.

So it's hard to see us making the right move at the right price here. Either we're going to underwhelm entirely, or we're going to absolutely pay through the nose. And honestly, the latter is probably preferable, so expect the former.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817968 is a reply to message #817967 ]
Mon, 13 February 2023 00:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Babaganoosh2.0 is currently offline Babaganoosh2.0
Messages: 396
Registered: December 2018
Location: Southern AB
No Cups
Adam wrote on Sun, 12 February 2023 22:00

Kr55 wrote on Sun, 12 February 2023 21:13

I don't know if people here know this, but, little known fact, Ken Holland traded for Chris Chelios. The price was 2 1sts and a former 1st round pick. Chelios was 37 at the time.

Is Karlsson going to be Holland's repeat of the Chelios trade?


I mean, that's the problem in a nutshell. The team is poorly constructed and has a couple of deep flaws that require bold moves in order to rectify - something along the lines of a 2006 Kevin Lowe year really. We need an upgrade at first pairing defence, and a top six forward. Neither of those things will come cheap, and at least one may require a temporary solution, rather than getting "someone with term" or "under team control".

The guy we have in charge is just woefully ill-equipped to do this. He has no history of success in trades, he doesn't believe in using a team's weakness to get a better deal for himself, and he doesn't understand either leverage or the requirement to hold your cards close.

So it's hard to see us making the right move at the right price here. Either we're going to underwhelm entirely, or we're going to absolutely pay through the nose. And honestly, the latter is probably preferable, so expect the former.



Im hoping the old "blind squirrel finds nut" scenario plays out. Me ever the optimist.

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817975 is a reply to message #817968 ]
Mon, 13 February 2023 08:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 3686
Registered: January 2016
3 Cups
Do people think the Chelios trade was bad? After he was traded, he played 10 yrs for the Wings and helped them win 3 cups. That's not what you want to happen in a trade?

In the beginning, I was against trading for Karlsson. But with how he is playing, he's probably going to win the norris this year. He didn't have a good couple of seasons in San Jose but since getting healthy, he's back to his elite self.

The's an elite skater.
Elite puck mover.
Elite offensive dman.
Elite PP guy.

His defensive game is probably average but he's elite at everything else which in my opinion makes up for him not being a really good defender. With 4 more years of a deal when he is turning 33 this may, it's a bit of a concern but the guy is elite. Assuming he stays healthy, on a team loaded with offensive talent like the Oilers, he could easily have 2 elite seasons in him. Even if he falls off a little bit in a couple of seasons. How far we talking here when you have a guy who's elite in what he does? He's an elite level skater so even if he loses a step, he's still going to be above average.

I have changed my tune over where I was months ago. If you have the opportunity to get a guy as elite as Karlsson, you have to go get him if you can.

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817976 is a reply to message #817975 ]
Mon, 13 February 2023 08:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm is currently offline Oscargasm
Messages: 5649
Registered: May 2009
Location: YEG
5 Cups
RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 08:43

Do people think the Chelios trade was bad? After he was traded, he played 10 yrs for the Wings and helped them win 3 cups. That's not what you want to happen in a trade?

In the beginning, I was against trading for Karlsson. But with how he is playing, he's probably going to win the norris this year. He didn't have a good couple of seasons in San Jose but since getting healthy, he's back to his elite self.

The's an elite skater.
Elite puck mover.
Elite offensive dman.
Elite PP guy.

His defensive game is probably average but he's elite at everything else which in my opinion makes up for him not being a really good defender. With 4 more years of a deal when he is turning 33 this may, it's a bit of a concern but the guy is elite. Assuming he stays healthy, on a team loaded with offensive talent like the Oilers, he could easily have 2 elite seasons in him. Even if he falls off a little bit in a couple of seasons. How far we talking here when you have a guy who's elite in what he does? He's an elite level skater so even if he loses a step, he's still going to be above average.

I have changed my tune over where I was months ago. If you have the opportunity to get a guy as elite as Karlsson, you have to go get him if you can.


Also, it’s a guy that 97 and 29 want. The payment to get him is, if it occurs, going to be massive.

Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
OG's #MUSTWIN Scale
Category 1 - Lightly Musty
Category 2 - Moderately Musty
Category 3 - Considerably Musty
Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817978 is a reply to message #817976 ]
Mon, 13 February 2023 09:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 3686
Registered: January 2016
3 Cups
Oscargasm wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 08:57

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 08:43

Do people think the Chelios trade was bad? After he was traded, he played 10 yrs for the Wings and helped them win 3 cups. That's not what you want to happen in a trade?

In the beginning, I was against trading for Karlsson. But with how he is playing, he's probably going to win the norris this year. He didn't have a good couple of seasons in San Jose but since getting healthy, he's back to his elite self.

The's an elite skater.
Elite puck mover.
Elite offensive dman.
Elite PP guy.

His defensive game is probably average but he's elite at everything else which in my opinion makes up for him not being a really good defender. With 4 more years of a deal when he is turning 33 this may, it's a bit of a concern but the guy is elite. Assuming he stays healthy, on a team loaded with offensive talent like the Oilers, he could easily have 2 elite seasons in him. Even if he falls off a little bit in a couple of seasons. How far we talking here when you have a guy who's elite in what he does? He's an elite level skater so even if he loses a step, he's still going to be above average.

I have changed my tune over where I was months ago. If you have the opportunity to get a guy as elite as Karlsson, you have to go get him if you can.


Also, it’s a guy that 97 and 29 want. The payment to get him is, if it occurs, going to be massive.

Fans are entitled to say who they want but what those 2 want play a factor in how the team will have to proceed. I have to think that the management would at least run by potential moves by those 2. I am not saying they have to get McD's and Leon's approval but at least an opinion about players.

No offense to anyone who hardcore believes in all the advanced numbers or to the guys who do them that some fans take as exact but the guys that do these stats aren't physically on the ice battling these guys. So if the team goes to McD and Leon and ask them what they think about Karlsson and their response is "go get him, he's unreal and we could do amazing things with him", I don't think the player card that JFresh or whoever creates about players outlining their advanced stats means as much.

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817984 is a reply to message #817978 ]
Mon, 13 February 2023 10:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
Messages: 6803
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 09:25

Oscargasm wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 08:57

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 08:43

Do people think the Chelios trade was bad? After he was traded, he played 10 yrs for the Wings and helped them win 3 cups. That's not what you want to happen in a trade?

In the beginning, I was against trading for Karlsson. But with how he is playing, he's probably going to win the norris this year. He didn't have a good couple of seasons in San Jose but since getting healthy, he's back to his elite self.

The's an elite skater.
Elite puck mover.
Elite offensive dman.
Elite PP guy.

His defensive game is probably average but he's elite at everything else which in my opinion makes up for him not being a really good defender. With 4 more years of a deal when he is turning 33 this may, it's a bit of a concern but the guy is elite. Assuming he stays healthy, on a team loaded with offensive talent like the Oilers, he could easily have 2 elite seasons in him. Even if he falls off a little bit in a couple of seasons. How far we talking here when you have a guy who's elite in what he does? He's an elite level skater so even if he loses a step, he's still going to be above average.

I have changed my tune over where I was months ago. If you have the opportunity to get a guy as elite as Karlsson, you have to go get him if you can.


Also, it’s a guy that 97 and 29 want. The payment to get him is, if it occurs, going to be massive.

Fans are entitled to say who they want but what those 2 want play a factor in how the team will have to proceed. I have to think that the management would at least run by potential moves by those 2. I am not saying they have to get McD's and Leon's approval but at least an opinion about players.

No offense to anyone who hardcore believes in all the advanced numbers or to the guys who do them that some fans take as exact but the guys that do these stats aren't physically on the ice battling these guys. So if the team goes to McD and Leon and ask them what they think about Karlsson and their response is "go get him, he's unreal and we could do amazing things with him", I don't think the player card that JFresh or whoever creates about players outlining their advanced stats means as much.


I don't want old players running my team or making the decisions, and I'm not sure that current players are any better at it. I also think it can be toxic to team culture to have certain players involved in personnel decisions and others not. If I'm running a team, I have an open door to my players, but I'm not looking to them for any blessing on any moves, and I'm trusting my scouting and analytics team more than the players to know what we need and who best fills those holes.

I wouldn't pay any attention to fans at all, so wouldn't care what fans think. Analytics people though? Yeah, I value them more than a player's opinion.

As for Chelios - he was fine for the Red Wings, but the cost to acquire him at his age is immense, and a huge overpay. Look at his career numbers:

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=946

Holland paid as if he was getting a first pairing guy who'd put up 40-50+ points. He never hit 40 points the rest of his career, and he became mostly a depth defenceman as he defied the odds and played several more seasons. Chelios did better than probably could be expected - he scored 39 points at age 40 - but it's an extremely bad bet by Holland who gave a divisional rival a lot of assets for their ancient d-man. He's fortunate that the Blackhawks also had poor management who did nothing with those assets.

The number of Cups (only 2 actually) isn't really a factor. He played a roll in the 2002 team, but on a stacked team, and he wasn't even an every day player in 2008. Lots of guys win Cups - Colin Fraser has three Cup rings. It isn't actually a proof that a player is good, or that a trade was a win.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817988 is a reply to message #817984 ]
Mon, 13 February 2023 10:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 3686
Registered: January 2016
3 Cups
Adam wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 10:29

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 09:25

Oscargasm wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 08:57

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 08:43

Do people think the Chelios trade was bad? After he was traded, he played 10 yrs for the Wings and helped them win 3 cups. That's not what you want to happen in a trade?

In the beginning, I was against trading for Karlsson. But with how he is playing, he's probably going to win the norris this year. He didn't have a good couple of seasons in San Jose but since getting healthy, he's back to his elite self.

The's an elite skater.
Elite puck mover.
Elite offensive dman.
Elite PP guy.

His defensive game is probably average but he's elite at everything else which in my opinion makes up for him not being a really good defender. With 4 more years of a deal when he is turning 33 this may, it's a bit of a concern but the guy is elite. Assuming he stays healthy, on a team loaded with offensive talent like the Oilers, he could easily have 2 elite seasons in him. Even if he falls off a little bit in a couple of seasons. How far we talking here when you have a guy who's elite in what he does? He's an elite level skater so even if he loses a step, he's still going to be above average.

I have changed my tune over where I was months ago. If you have the opportunity to get a guy as elite as Karlsson, you have to go get him if you can.


Also, it’s a guy that 97 and 29 want. The payment to get him is, if it occurs, going to be massive.

Fans are entitled to say who they want but what those 2 want play a factor in how the team will have to proceed. I have to think that the management would at least run by potential moves by those 2. I am not saying they have to get McD's and Leon's approval but at least an opinion about players.

No offense to anyone who hardcore believes in all the advanced numbers or to the guys who do them that some fans take as exact but the guys that do these stats aren't physically on the ice battling these guys. So if the team goes to McD and Leon and ask them what they think about Karlsson and their response is "go get him, he's unreal and we could do amazing things with him", I don't think the player card that JFresh or whoever creates about players outlining their advanced stats means as much.


I don't want old players running my team or making the decisions, and I'm not sure that current players are any better at it. I also think it can be toxic to team culture to have certain players involved in personnel decisions and others not. If I'm running a team, I have an open door to my players, but I'm not looking to them for any blessing on any moves, and I'm trusting my scouting and analytics team more than the players to know what we need and who best fills those holes.

I wouldn't pay any attention to fans at all, so wouldn't care what fans think. Analytics people though? Yeah, I value them more than a player's opinion.

As for Chelios - he was fine for the Red Wings, but the cost to acquire him at his age is immense, and a huge overpay. Look at his career numbers:

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=946

Holland paid as if he was getting a first pairing guy who'd put up 40-50+ points. He never hit 40 points the rest of his career, and he became mostly a depth defenceman as he defied the odds and played several more seasons. Chelios did better than probably could be expected - he scored 39 points at age 40 - but it's an extremely bad bet by Holland who gave a divisional rival a lot of assets for their ancient d-man. He's fortunate that the Blackhawks also had poor management who did nothing with those assets.

The number of Cups (only 2 actually) isn't really a factor. He played a roll in the 2002 team, but on a stacked team, and he wasn't even an every day player in 2008. Lots of guys win Cups - Colin Fraser has three Cup rings. It isn't actually a proof that a player is good, or that a trade was a win.

In my opinion, I think there is a big difference between listening to your average player on what they think about other guys or a guy like McD. If a player of McD's ability, a guy who will most likely be in the hall of fame, maybe the best player we've seen in the last 20 yrs, maybe more. Your captain and basically your entire franchise says "I'd like to have that guy on my team". I don't think it's smart management to just wave McD off and say. "I got this Connor, you go score me some goals." You don't make moves solely on what your best player says but I think you at least take a look at things and get his opinion at least a little. He's on the ice, he's the one that goes up against these guys and knows what they can and can't do. Basing your decisions on what the JFresh's of the world decide, which is what most fans do, I don't think is the best course of action.

I am not going to debate with you if Holland paid too much for Chelios. They gave up 2 firsts and Anders Eriksson. I would assume that the first's the Wings gave up were pretty low firsts when you win cups. I don't think he was giving up top 5 picks and Eriksson was a pretty mediocre at best dman over his whole career. Bouncing around the NHL and the AHL. While the Wings got 10 yrs and he helped win 3 Cups. They won a cup the first year they got him. I am not saying he was the main reason they won, but he contributed to it and contributed to them being successful for a lot of his time as a Wing.

I don't know if the Karlsson trade will happen. I don't know what the cost will be but if it happened and the Oilers got a cup or 2 out of it and the main cost was a few low firsts, I'd take that.

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817992 is a reply to message #817988 ]
Mon, 13 February 2023 11:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
Messages: 6803
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 10:50


In my opinion, I think there is a big difference between listening to your average player on what they think about other guys or a guy like McD. If a player of McD's ability, a guy who will most likely be in the hall of fame, maybe the best player we've seen in the last 20 yrs, maybe more. Your captain and basically your entire franchise says "I'd like to have that guy on my team". I don't think it's smart management to just wave McD off and say. "I got this Connor, you go score me some goals." You don't make moves solely on what your best player says but I think you at least take a look at things and get his opinion at least a little. He's on the ice, he's the one that goes up against these guys and knows what they can and can't do. Basing your decisions on what the JFresh's of the world decide, which is what most fans do, I don't think is the best course of action.

I am not going to debate with you if Holland paid too much for Chelios. They gave up 2 firsts and Anders Eriksson. I would assume that the first's the Wings gave up were pretty low firsts when you win cups. I don't think he was giving up top 5 picks and Eriksson was a pretty mediocre at best dman over his whole career. Bouncing around the NHL and the AHL. While the Wings got 10 yrs and he helped win 3 Cups. They won a cup the first year they got him. I am not saying he was the main reason they won, but he contributed to it and contributed to them being successful for a lot of his time as a Wing.

I don't know if the Karlsson trade will happen. I don't know what the cost will be but if it happened and the Oilers got a cup or 2 out of it and the main cost was a few low firsts, I'd take that.


A few things on your non-debate around Chelios:

- The Dallas Stars won the Cup the year that the Red Wings traded for Chris Chelios. The Red Wings made it all the way to the second round that year as the two-time defending champions, but were knocked out by the Colorado Avalanche. The Wings wouldn't win again until 2002 when Chelios was already defying the odds by still playing at 40.
- While clearly not a Hall of Famer, at the time of the trade, Anders Erickson had 34 points that season - the same number that the guy he got dealt for had. He was a former first round pick who was trending well having scored 32 points the season earlier. It was not clear, other than name and experience, that the guy they were getting was better than the one they sent away. They then sent two first rounds on top of that.
- Worth remembering again, Chelios was 37 years old. That's ANCIENT for a hockey player, and if you look across most hockey players, you're going to see that the results curve angles pretty sharply down as you push 40. I'm not sure that Holland really understands this. If you look at the list of deadline acquisitions over the last couple decades, you see him do this a lot, picking up Erik Cole or Mike Green for the last few games of their career, and generally overpaying in the process.

Regarding the Oilers more specifically, I'm on record saying that the team needs to make a big bet, and that draft picks aren't particularly important now, since they won't mature during McDavid & Draisaitl's current deals, and the end of those deals is the apocalypse if the Oilers haven't won a Cup.

But Karlsson presents a challenging picture. He's having his best season ever at age 32/33. He's only 3 goals and 9 points off personal bests with 28 games to go. Truly an amazing year. But it's been FIVE years since he's approached a point per game, so what do you think the outlier season is? He hasn't played more than 56 games in a season since 2018-19 and we know injuries can be cumulative on a player's career. He's got a long contract, and so he's tied in here if we trade for him. What is he going to look like the rest of this deal? (Here's the numbers for those interested: https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=112742)

On top of that, does our GM realize these facts? Is he going to pay for Karlsson as if he will lead the league in points the next four years? Is he going to be creative enough to minimize the cap hit not just this year but for the remainder of his deal? It's a massive number and the Oilers have struggled to manage the cap anyhow, so what does that look like?

And who goes back the other way? I mean, likely Puljujarvi for cap room, but will one of the right shot d-men go too? If it's Bouchard, how soon do the Oilers regret that?

For that matter, how does Karlsson improve the team? One would think he goes on the PP and while he is an upgrade on Bouchard or Barrie, does he touch the puck here as much? The Oilers powerplay uses the pointman, but that player isn't the quarterback. McDavid and Draisaitl and even Nugent-Hopkins all probably have the puck more. Can the powerplay improve much from where it's at? Barrie has 23 powerplay points, Karlsson 19.

Is Karlsson able to take minutes away from Ceci at even strength? He's definitely over-used, but not sure that Karlsson covers up for any of Nurse's shortcomings - other than being a much better passer. I guess the big question is whether a Nurse/Karlsson pairing is a great first pair or not. It's certainly an expensive one.

Given his history, I suspect that if Holland was able to pull off a Karlsson deal (which isn't likely) then he's going to massively over-pay. I could see something like Bouchard, Puljujarvi, and two or three picks. Maybe one of Schaeffer or Bourgault too.

He shouldn't actually be a very expensive acquisition because he's super expensive, for a long time, with no-move protection on a bad team that's going no where and probably won't go anywhere in the next 4 years. A good GM would see that removing the burden of that cap hit alone has value to San Jose and that Karlsson has hurt them this year in the Connor Bedard sweepstakes. His hot season couldn't have come at a worse time for them. Without him on the team they'd probably be in the bottom 2 or 3 in the league. A timely deal might help them at least catch Arizona for fourth last.

A package around Puljujarvi and Barrie and a first? Okay, that's not too bad...especially if you leave yourself enough room to get a winger before the deadline too, but man...even then...the team better be sure he's the right guy and that he IS going to meaningfully improve the roster because as CrusaderPi said, this could be the last big bet of the Connor McDavid era in Edmonton...

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817994 is a reply to message #817988 ]
Mon, 13 February 2023 11:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
Messages: 6803
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 10:50


In my opinion, I think there is a big difference between listening to your average player on what they think about other guys or a guy like McD. If a player of McD's ability, a guy who will most likely be in the hall of fame, maybe the best player we've seen in the last 20 yrs, maybe more. Your captain and basically your entire franchise says "I'd like to have that guy on my team". I don't think it's smart management to just wave McD off and say. "I got this Connor, you go score me some goals." You don't make moves solely on what your best player says but I think you at least take a look at things and get his opinion at least a little. He's on the ice, he's the one that goes up against these guys and knows what they can and can't do. Basing your decisions on what the JFresh's of the world decide, which is what most fans do, I don't think is the best course of action.


One more question on this:

What do you think of Wayne Gretzky's work as a coach and hockey executive? How about Patrick Roy? Being a great hockey player doesn't make you a great manager.

Also if you're including one or two players in the discussions on who you will and won't get, then you're just asking for dressing room issues. There's an implication those guys also are weighing in on who they can replace, which can cause friction. Best for the players to be focused on the team they have and try to make everyone in that room successful. They shouldn't spend time worrying about trades that they can't control and who might be nice to play with.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817972 is a reply to message #815007 ]
Mon, 13 February 2023 08:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm is currently offline Oscargasm
Messages: 5649
Registered: May 2009
Location: YEG
5 Cups
FWIW, focus has turned to figuring out a Karlsson addition. Buckle up.

Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
OG's #MUSTWIN Scale
Category 1 - Lightly Musty
Category 2 - Moderately Musty
Category 3 - Considerably Musty
Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817981 is a reply to message #817972 ]
Mon, 13 February 2023 09:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently online CrusaderPi
Messages: 7631
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100
6 Cups
Oscargasm wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 08:39

FWIW, focus has turned to figuring out a Karlsson addition. Buckle up.

If Karlsson is the guy that makes all the parts of the Oilers fit together into a team that can win the cup, I'm wildly in favor of this trade. He's under contract (albeit expensive) and still young enough for the whole of the 3-year window. But you better be damn sure Karlsson is that guy because this trade might be the last big move the Oilers can make before Draisaitl comes up.

I've thought he was done for 3 years because it looked like he's been skating in sand since he was traded to San Jose. Maybe 5 seasons of playing ~55 games has given him enough rest and all that is fixed and he's back to being the guy he was in Ottawa. It would be hard to convince me this season isn't the aberration.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817982 is a reply to message #817981 ]
Mon, 13 February 2023 10:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260 is currently offline smyth260
Messages: 939
Registered: November 2007
No Cups
CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 08:49

Oscargasm wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 08:39

FWIW, focus has turned to figuring out a Karlsson addition. Buckle up.

If Karlsson is the guy that makes all the parts of the Oilers fit together into a team that can win the cup, I'm wildly in favor of this trade. He's under contract (albeit expensive) and still young enough for the whole of the 3-year window. But you better be damn sure Karlsson is that guy because this trade might be the last big move the Oilers can make before Draisaitl comes up.

I've thought he was done for 3 years because it looked like he's been skating in sand since he was traded to San Jose. Maybe 5 seasons of playing ~55 games has given him enough rest and all that is fixed and he's back to being the guy he was in Ottawa. It would be hard to convince me this season isn't the aberration.


Yep definitely. No flexibility after that. I don't think the Karlsson talk is anything to take seriously anyways. Its a near insurmountable deal to make work.

Islanders get Horvat. Rangers get Tarasenko. LA will get Chychrun. Oilers will get Gavrikov and tell the fans that they tried.

Clean house or bust

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817983 is a reply to message #817982 ]
Mon, 13 February 2023 10:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 3686
Registered: January 2016
3 Cups
Are you the guy who at Christmas watches all the kids open presents then tells them Santa isn't real? Talk about buzz killer. Geeze. icon_lol

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817987 is a reply to message #817983 ]
Mon, 13 February 2023 10:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
Messages: 6803
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 10:14

Are you the guy who at Christmas watches all the kids open presents then tells them Santa isn't real? Talk about buzz killer. Geeze. icon_lol


I think the more apt analogy here would be if smyth260 was identifying which kid's parents tried to pass off the super-cheap knock-off of the year's hottest selling toy.

With the Oilers, it's not even necessarily that they're going for the Zellers no-name brand knock-off. Holland is really trying to get that Tickle-Me-Elmo or Tamagotchi for us, knowing that those were REALLY big hits just a few years ago...and I mean, who didn't love when he got us Beanie Babies...err...Duncan Keith last year?

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817991 is a reply to message #817987 ]
Mon, 13 February 2023 11:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 3686
Registered: January 2016
3 Cups
Adam wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 10:49

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 10:14

Are you the guy who at Christmas watches all the kids open presents then tells them Santa isn't real? Talk about buzz killer. Geeze. icon_lol


I think the more apt analogy here would be if smyth260 was identifying which kid's parents tried to pass off the super-cheap knock-off of the year's hottest selling toy.

With the Oilers, it's not even necessarily that they're going for the Zellers no-name brand knock-off. Holland is really trying to get that Tickle-Me-Elmo or Tamagotchi for us, knowing that those were REALLY big hits just a few years ago...and I mean, who didn't love when he got us Beanie Babies...err...Duncan Keith last year?

I think my analogy is bang on. People in here are discussing the pros and cons of various good players, throwing around trade proposals, weighing the costs. All the fun things that come with the deadline. To go back to a Christmas, it would be like 2 kids weighing the pros and cons about which new gaming system they are getting but then someone coming in and saying "nope, you are getting a big box of socks and underwear".

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817993 is a reply to message #817991 ]
Mon, 13 February 2023 11:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
Messages: 6803
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 11:27

Adam wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 10:49

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 10:14

Are you the guy who at Christmas watches all the kids open presents then tells them Santa isn't real? Talk about buzz killer. Geeze. icon_lol


I think the more apt analogy here would be if smyth260 was identifying which kid's parents tried to pass off the super-cheap knock-off of the year's hottest selling toy.

With the Oilers, it's not even necessarily that they're going for the Zellers no-name brand knock-off. Holland is really trying to get that Tickle-Me-Elmo or Tamagotchi for us, knowing that those were REALLY big hits just a few years ago...and I mean, who didn't love when he got us Beanie Babies...err...Duncan Keith last year?

I think my analogy is bang on. People in here are discussing the pros and cons of various good players, throwing around trade proposals, weighing the costs. All the fun things that come with the deadline. To go back to a Christmas, it would be like 2 kids weighing the pros and cons about which new gaming system they are getting but then someone coming in and saying "nope, you are getting a big box of socks and underwear".


I still think you're missing here. If the present WAS socks and underwear, you can't just pretend like it was a game console...

If we end up with Gavrikov when the music stops, that's pretty much it.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817995 is a reply to message #817993 ]
Mon, 13 February 2023 11:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently online CrusaderPi
Messages: 7631
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100
6 Cups
Adam wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 11:39

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 11:27

Adam wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 10:49

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 10:14

Are you the guy who at Christmas watches all the kids open presents then tells them Santa isn't real? Talk about buzz killer. Geeze. icon_lol


I think the more apt analogy here would be if smyth260 was identifying which kid's parents tried to pass off the super-cheap knock-off of the year's hottest selling toy.

With the Oilers, it's not even necessarily that they're going for the Zellers no-name brand knock-off. Holland is really trying to get that Tickle-Me-Elmo or Tamagotchi for us, knowing that those were REALLY big hits just a few years ago...and I mean, who didn't love when he got us Beanie Babies...err...Duncan Keith last year?

I think my analogy is bang on. People in here are discussing the pros and cons of various good players, throwing around trade proposals, weighing the costs. All the fun things that come with the deadline. To go back to a Christmas, it would be like 2 kids weighing the pros and cons about which new gaming system they are getting but then someone coming in and saying "nope, you are getting a big box of socks and underwear".


I still think you're missing here. If the present WAS socks and underwear, you can't just pretend like it was a game console...

If we end up with Gavrikov when the music stops, that's pretty much it.

Maybe I'm getting old, but socks and underwear is a pretty good and useful Christmas present in my books. I think Gavrikov is a white elephant gift exchange gift. No one needs another coffee mug with an ironic phrase paired with a selection of tea samples from a defunct tea place and knitted mittens. But you gotta bring something and that means you gotta leave with something.



Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817996 is a reply to message #817995 ]
Mon, 13 February 2023 11:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Babaganoosh2.0 is currently offline Babaganoosh2.0
Messages: 396
Registered: December 2018
Location: Southern AB
No Cups
CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 11:48

Adam wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 11:39

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 11:27

Adam wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 10:49

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 10:14

Are you the guy who at Christmas watches all the kids open presents then tells them Santa isn't real? Talk about buzz killer. Geeze. icon_lol


I think the more apt analogy here would be if smyth260 was identifying which kid's parents tried to pass off the super-cheap knock-off of the year's hottest selling toy.

With the Oilers, it's not even necessarily that they're going for the Zellers no-name brand knock-off. Holland is really trying to get that Tickle-Me-Elmo or Tamagotchi for us, knowing that those were REALLY big hits just a few years ago...and I mean, who didn't love when he got us Beanie Babies...err...Duncan Keith last year?

I think my analogy is bang on. People in here are discussing the pros and cons of various good players, throwing around trade proposals, weighing the costs. All the fun things that come with the deadline. To go back to a Christmas, it would be like 2 kids weighing the pros and cons about which new gaming system they are getting but then someone coming in and saying "nope, you are getting a big box of socks and underwear".


I still think you're missing here. If the present WAS socks and underwear, you can't just pretend like it was a game console...

If we end up with Gavrikov when the music stops, that's pretty much it.

Maybe I'm getting old, but socks and underwear is a pretty good and useful Christmas present in my books. I think Gavrikov is a white elephant gift exchange gift. No one needs another coffee mug with an ironic phrase paired with a selection of tea samples from a defunct tea place and knitted mittens. But you gotta bring something and that means you gotta leave with something.



Our luck we end up getting one of those skin flaying Gillette razor blade gift packs. The return of Kris Russel.

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817997 is a reply to message #817996 ]
Mon, 13 February 2023 11:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently online CrusaderPi
Messages: 7631
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100
6 Cups
Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 11:51


Our luck we end up getting one of those skin flaying Gillette razor blade gift packs. The return of Kris Russel.

Gifting a safety razor starter pack is the way to go. No one knows there's a better alternative until it gets handed to them. Of course in this (tortured) metaphor a safety razor is a competitive hiring process.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817998 is a reply to message #817997 ]
Mon, 13 February 2023 12:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Babaganoosh2.0 is currently offline Babaganoosh2.0
Messages: 396
Registered: December 2018
Location: Southern AB
No Cups
CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 11:58

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 11:51


Our luck we end up getting one of those skin flaying Gillette razor blade gift packs. The return of Kris Russel.

Gifting a safety razor starter pack is the way to go. No one knows there's a better alternative until it gets handed to them. Of course in this (tortured) metaphor a safety razor is a competitive hiring process.

Just got to go for it and hope we don't give ourselves a DIY vasectomy in the process I guess.

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817999 is a reply to message #817997 ]
Mon, 13 February 2023 12:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dragon_Matt is currently offline Dragon_Matt
Messages: 708
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton
No Cups
You don't know the music stops... Maybe Gavrikov comes with a walkman.

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817985 is a reply to message #817982 ]
Mon, 13 February 2023 10:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose is currently offline Goose
Messages: 1098
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver
1 Cup
smyth260 wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 09:05

CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 08:49

Oscargasm wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 08:39

FWIW, focus has turned to figuring out a Karlsson addition. Buckle up.

If Karlsson is the guy that makes all the parts of the Oilers fit together into a team that can win the cup, I'm wildly in favor of this trade. He's under contract (albeit expensive) and still young enough for the whole of the 3-year window. But you better be damn sure Karlsson is that guy because this trade might be the last big move the Oilers can make before Draisaitl comes up.

I've thought he was done for 3 years because it looked like he's been skating in sand since he was traded to San Jose. Maybe 5 seasons of playing ~55 games has given him enough rest and all that is fixed and he's back to being the guy he was in Ottawa. It would be hard to convince me this season isn't the aberration.


Yep definitely. No flexibility after that. I don't think the Karlsson talk is anything to take seriously anyways. Its a near insurmountable deal to make work.

Islanders get Horvat. Rangers get Tarasenko. LA will get Chychrun. Oilers will get Gavrikov and tell the fans that they tried.


Ya, this definitely feels like a classic, "hey we tried to get Karlsson, what else did you want us to do?", move from the Oilers. Tons of smoke out there about the move, so somebody is 'leaking' to somebody. The math on the contract is such a big obstacle. Even if SJ agreed to eat some salary (and I'd be pretty surprised if they agreed to eat 50% of that deal for the next 3 years), It's still a lot the Oilers would need to move out. And I have to imagine that the ask from SJ for 50% retained would be very high.

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817989 is a reply to message #817985 ]
Mon, 13 February 2023 10:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
Messages: 6803
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
Goose wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 10:37


Ya, this definitely feels like a classic, "hey we tried to get Karlsson, what else did you want us to do?", move from the Oilers. Tons of smoke out there about the move, so somebody is 'leaking' to somebody. The math on the contract is such a big obstacle. Even if SJ agreed to eat some salary (and I'd be pretty surprised if they agreed to eat 50% of that deal for the next 3 years), It's still a lot the Oilers would need to move out. And I have to imagine that the ask from SJ for 50% retained would be very high.


Same thing as Chychrun. The Oilers are making sure that Friedman and others know they're "in the mix" on these discussions. From a tactical point of view on negotiations, there isn't much benefit to the Oilers as sellers leaking. If anything, it likely increases the price. The only reason you'd do it, is if your biggest concern is optics with fans. That's idiotic of course, buuuuuut it's the Oilers.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817990 is a reply to message #817989 ]
Mon, 13 February 2023 11:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 3686
Registered: January 2016
3 Cups
Friedman on 32 thoughts saying players have made it clear, if a trade is made they want a player who gets the puck out of the zone by moving it, not banging it off the glass.

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #818001 is a reply to message #817990 ]
Mon, 13 February 2023 12:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260 is currently offline smyth260
Messages: 939
Registered: November 2007
No Cups
RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 10:23

Friedman on 32 thoughts saying players have made it clear, if a trade is made they want a player who gets the puck out of the zone by moving it, not banging it off the glass.


Sure seems like Chychrun can do that.

From all the analysis I’ve seen, his defense is competent. All the stuff about how he is offensive but can’t defend seems to be largely made up narrative.

Clean house or bust

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #818003 is a reply to message #818001 ]
Mon, 13 February 2023 12:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 9535
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
6 Cups
smyth260 wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 12:18

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 10:23

Friedman on 32 thoughts saying players have made it clear, if a trade is made they want a player who gets the puck out of the zone by moving it, not banging it off the glass.


Sure seems like Chychrun can do that.

From all the analysis I’ve seen, his defense is competent. All the stuff about how he is offensive but can’t defend seems to be largely made up narrative.


Chychrun would definitely be nice, but is it who McDrai want? :)

If I was Holland and I sucked at managing the cap and trading, I think I would welcome with open arms any direct requests of players McDrai want on the team. What a great crutch to have for when those guys are talking about extending with us and you can remind them about how you clearly did everything in your power to create the team they also felt was needed to succeed.

Come on McDrai, share the blame with management

https://media.tenor.com/Jfu1F2jM9c0AAAAC/come-to.gif

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #818004 is a reply to message #818001 ]
Mon, 13 February 2023 12:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Babaganoosh2.0 is currently offline Babaganoosh2.0
Messages: 396
Registered: December 2018
Location: Southern AB
No Cups
smyth260 wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 12:18

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 10:23

Friedman on 32 thoughts saying players have made it clear, if a trade is made they want a player who gets the puck out of the zone by moving it, not banging it off the glass.


Sure seems like Chychrun can do that.

From all the analysis I’ve seen, his defense is competent. All the stuff about how he is offensive but can’t defend seems to be largely made up narrative.

Hearing the price Arizona wants for him is two first-round picks and a top prospect per Garrioch in Ottawa.

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #818006 is a reply to message #818004 ]
Mon, 13 February 2023 12:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike is currently offline Mike
Messages: 1058
Registered: August 2005
Location: Moncton, New Brunswick
1 Cup
Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 15:25

smyth260 wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 12:18

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 10:23

Friedman on 32 thoughts saying players have made it clear, if a trade is made they want a player who gets the puck out of the zone by moving it, not banging it off the glass.


Sure seems like Chychrun can do that.

From all the analysis I’ve seen, his defense is competent. All the stuff about how he is offensive but can’t defend seems to be largely made up narrative.

Hearing the price Arizona wants for him is two first-round picks and a top prospect per Garrioch in Ottawa.


He's 24 (soon to be 25), really good at both ends of the ice, and is under contract for 2 more years after this at a very team friendly $4.6M.

What are the odds either of our 1st round picks ever even comes close to being what Chychrun is, let alone doing it in the McDrai window? Yeah - if the price is a couple of firsts and a prospect, I do that deal yesterday.

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #818007 is a reply to message #818006 ]
Mon, 13 February 2023 12:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently online CrusaderPi
Messages: 7631
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100
6 Cups
Mike wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 12:51

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 15:25

smyth260 wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 12:18

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 10:23

Friedman on 32 thoughts saying players have made it clear, if a trade is made they want a player who gets the puck out of the zone by moving it, not banging it off the glass.


Sure seems like Chychrun can do that.

From all the analysis I’ve seen, his defense is competent. All the stuff about how he is offensive but can’t defend seems to be largely made up narrative.

Hearing the price Arizona wants for him is two first-round picks and a top prospect per Garrioch in Ottawa.


He's 24 (soon to be 25), really good at both ends of the ice, and is under contract for 2 more years after this at a very team friendly $4.6M.

What are the odds either of our 1st round picks ever even comes close to being what Chychrun is, let alone doing it in the McDrai window? Yeah - if the price is a couple of firsts and a prospect, I do that deal yesterday.

In a heartbeat.

I try to make the pick conditional on games played and playoff success, but absolutely that's a player you want. Even as a two year rental. God, could you imagine Chychrun with salary retained?

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #818010 is a reply to message #818007 ]
Mon, 13 February 2023 13:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
Messages: 6803
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 12:55

Mike wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 12:51

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 15:25

smyth260 wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 12:18

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 10:23

Friedman on 32 thoughts saying players have made it clear, if a trade is made they want a player who gets the puck out of the zone by moving it, not banging it off the glass.


Sure seems like Chychrun can do that.

From all the analysis I’ve seen, his defense is competent. All the stuff about how he is offensive but can’t defend seems to be largely made up narrative.

Hearing the price Arizona wants for him is two first-round picks and a top prospect per Garrioch in Ottawa.


He's 24 (soon to be 25), really good at both ends of the ice, and is under contract for 2 more years after this at a very team friendly $4.6M.

What are the odds either of our 1st round picks ever even comes close to being what Chychrun is, let alone doing it in the McDrai window? Yeah - if the price is a couple of firsts and a prospect, I do that deal yesterday.

In a heartbeat.

I try to make the pick conditional on games played and playoff success, but absolutely that's a player you want. Even as a two year rental. God, could you imagine Chychrun with salary retained?


Even before taking contract in to account, I think Chychrun is closer to what the Oilers need than Karlsson, and should be valued higher by the team. I highly doubt that Holland thinks that way, and I suspect that he's willing to pay far more for Karlsson than he would for the cheaper, younger, and more defensively sound Chychrun.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #818009 is a reply to message #818006 ]
Mon, 13 February 2023 13:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Babaganoosh2.0 is currently offline Babaganoosh2.0
Messages: 396
Registered: December 2018
Location: Southern AB
No Cups
Mike wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 12:51

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 15:25

smyth260 wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 12:18

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 10:23

Friedman on 32 thoughts saying players have made it clear, if a trade is made they want a player who gets the puck out of the zone by moving it, not banging it off the glass.


Sure seems like Chychrun can do that.

From all the analysis I’ve seen, his defense is competent. All the stuff about how he is offensive but can’t defend seems to be largely made up narrative.

Hearing the price Arizona wants for him is two first-round picks and a top prospect per Garrioch in Ottawa.


He's 24 (soon to be 25), really good at both ends of the ice, and is under contract for 2 more years after this at a very team friendly $4.6M.

What are the odds either of our 1st round picks ever even comes close to being what Chychrun is, let alone doing it in the McDrai window? Yeah - if the price is a couple of firsts and a prospect, I do that deal yesterday.


Do keep in mind Garrioch was referring to Ottawa. There first round pick is worth alot more then our first. Its basically a ticket in the Bedard sweepstakes. If they wanted two firsts and a top prospect from Ottawa. I can only imagine what they would want from us.


Send a private message to this user  

 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #818011 is a reply to message #818009 ]
Mon, 13 February 2023 13:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
Messages: 6803
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 13:09

Mike wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 12:51

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 15:25

smyth260 wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 12:18

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 10:23

Friedman on 32 thoughts saying players have made it clear, if a trade is made they want a player who gets the puck out of the zone by moving it, not banging it off the glass.


Sure seems like Chychrun can do that.

From all the analysis I’ve seen, his defense is competent. All the stuff about how he is offensive but can’t defend seems to be largely made up narrative.

Hearing the price Arizona wants for him is two first-round picks and a top prospect per Garrioch in Ottawa.


He's 24 (soon to be 25), really good at both ends of the ice, and is under contract for 2 more years after this at a very team friendly $4.6M.

What are the odds either of our 1st round picks ever even comes close to being what Chychrun is, let alone doing it in the McDrai window? Yeah - if the price is a couple of firsts and a prospect, I do that deal yesterday.


Do keep in mind Garrioch was referring to Ottawa. There first round pick is worth alot more then our first. Its basically a ticket in the Bedard sweepstakes. If they wanted two firsts and a top prospect from Ottawa. I can only imagine what they would want from us.



Man, it would seem a little crazy to me if Ottawa were to step in and take a big chip off the market. At 10 points back, they're dead in the water when it comes to the playoff race. I'd more expect them to sell now - although they don't have a lot of great UFAs to market. Picking up Chychrun might just hurt their chances with Bedard...they're in 24th and could probably climb or drop by 2-3 spots in either direction.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #818012 is a reply to message #818011 ]
Mon, 13 February 2023 13:25 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
CrusaderPi is currently online CrusaderPi
Messages: 7631
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100
6 Cups
Ottawa (probably) isn't looking for Bedard. They have their young pieces and are expecting them to grow into a more competitive team. They must be looking at Chychrun as a long term piece, which isn't a bad thinking. Adding him to Chabot, Zaitsev, and Zub isn't a bad group.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #818013 is a reply to message #818012 ]
Mon, 13 February 2023 13:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 3686
Registered: January 2016
3 Cups
CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 13:25

Ottawa (probably) isn't looking for Bedard. They have their young pieces and are expecting them to grow into a more competitive team. They must be looking at Chychrun as a long term piece, which isn't a bad thinking. Adding him to Chabot, Zaitsev, and Zub isn't a bad group.

I feel like Ottawa is similar to what the Oilers were a few years ago. They need more defense and they need a goalie. I don't think they need more forward talent.

Send a private message to this user  

Pages (12): [ «  <  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  >  »]  
Previous Topic:Staios as GM???
Next Topic:Puljujarvi's Extension
Oilers NHL Minors Speculation For Sale 


Copyright © OilFans.com 1996-2022.
All content is property of OilFans.com and cannot be used without expressed, written consent from this site.
Questions, comments and suggestions can be directed to oilfans@OilFans.com
Privacy Statement

Hosted by LogicalHosting.ca