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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810884 is a reply to message #810879 ]	Wed, 27 July 2022 09:52

Mike
Messages: 1066
Registered: August 2005
Location: Moncton, New Brunswick

1 Cup

Dragon_Matt wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 11:43

I don't even believe Barrie is overpaid. Simply that Bouchard is younger and has more offensive upside. If Bouchard didn't pass him this past season, Barrie would be a top 4 Dman and our PP QB, making him worth his contract. We should be presenting him to other teams as a very reasonably priced player with 3 more years who's cap hit more than offsets taking Foegle as part of the deal.

My take as well.

But then someone mentioned injury - WHAT IF Bouchard gets injured for an extended period? Who runs PP1? Nurse? That's not ideal.

And on the subject of Bouchard - when would he become UFA? I think they should do all they can to extend him right now for at least a few years - whatever his UFA-1 year would be. Or if he wants to sign long term right now, I wouldn't be afraid of doing that either.

Problem is - if Barrie is not here this year, Bouchard very well could explode. Both because of the added gravy PP1 time, and the fact he is a year older coming off what was essentially his rookie season. A season where he put up 43 points, with 35 of those at even strength (good for 14th in the NHL). If Barrie is not here this year, and Bouchard is not extended, he could get VERY expensive by the time summer 2023 rolls around.

[Updated on: Wed, 27 July 2022 09:54]

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810885 is a reply to message #810884 ]	Wed, 27 July 2022 10:04

Kr55
Messages: 9604
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Mike wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 09:52

Dragon_Matt wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 11:43

I don't even believe Barrie is overpaid. Simply that Bouchard is younger and has more offensive upside. If Bouchard didn't pass him this past season, Barrie would be a top 4 Dman and our PP QB, making him worth his contract. We should be presenting him to other teams as a very reasonably priced player with 3 more years who's cap hit more than offsets taking Foegle as part of the deal.

My take as well.

But then someone mentioned injury - WHAT IF Bouchard gets injured for an extended period? Who runs PP1? Nurse? That's not ideal.

And on the subject of Bouchard - when would he become UFA? I think they should do all they can to extend him right now for at least a few years - whatever his UFA-1 year would be. Or if he wants to sign long term right now, I wouldn't be afraid of doing that either.

Problem is - if Barrie is not here this year, Bouchard very well could explode. Both because of the added gravy PP1 time, and the fact he is a year older coming off what was essentially his rookie season. A season where he put up 43 points, with 35 of those at even strength (good for 14th in the NHL). If Barrie is not here this year, and Bouchard is not extended, he could get VERY expensive by the time summer 2023 rolls around.

Nurse was fine on the PP though. We actually scored at a higher rate with Nurse on the PP than Barrie the last couple years. Barrie just kept getting that PP time by default because that is supposed to be his thing. Our PP performance the last few years as been basically 100% determined by how on their game McDavid and Drai are.

Our PP can be minimally demanding on a D. Klef did great too when he couldn't even shoot with his shoulder messed up. All the D has to do is not give the puck away and pass side to side and the PP still scored at a high rate and Nurse has actually shown he can do that. IMO Barrie actually started giving pucks away on the PP more and more as the season went on. Bouch actually could add more than Barrie or Nurse with his shot, but we haven't seen that totally incorporated yet.

As for the Bouch. I want him to develop ASAP. We need to win now. I think keeping Barrie just to block out Bouch from developing confidence in his offensive game on the PP would be a bad idea. That could actually be to the determent of the team performance as well. Bouch could well be far more effective on the PP and add a new element to it that would be useful in playoffs. I don't think players are dumb either. Bouch will get PP time at some point, and if it starts to be clear he is the better option and we just keep giving that time to Barrie, it will be apparent to Bouch and his agent what we're doing. That'll come home to roost at negotiation time. If you think you're getting ripped off on opportunity, you're going to keep insisting on short term deals. Nurse gave a clinic on how to keep biding time until the stars finally aligned.

[Updated on: Wed, 27 July 2022 10:15]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810886 is a reply to message #810884 ]	Wed, 27 July 2022 10:07

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7639
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

Mike wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 09:52

Dragon_Matt wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 11:43

I don't even believe Barrie is overpaid. Simply that Bouchard is younger and has more offensive upside. If Bouchard didn't pass him this past season, Barrie would be a top 4 Dman and our PP QB, making him worth his contract. We should be presenting him to other teams as a very reasonably priced player with 3 more years who's cap hit more than offsets taking Foegle as part of the deal.

My take as well.

But then someone mentioned injury - WHAT IF Bouchard gets injured for an extended period? Who runs PP1? Nurse? That's not ideal.

And on the subject of Bouchard - when would he become UFA? I think they should do all they can to extend him right now for at least a few years - whatever his UFA-1 year would be. Or if he wants to sign long term right now, I wouldn't be afraid of doing that either.

Problem is - if Barrie is not here this year, Bouchard very well could explode. Both because of the added gravy PP1 time, and the fact he is a year older coming off what was essentially his rookie season. A season where he put up 43 points, with 35 of those at even strength (good for 14th in the NHL). If Barrie is not here this year, and Bouchard is not extended, he could get VERY expensive by the time summer 2023 rolls around.

That would require planning ahead. Don't worry about it. Everything will work out.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810889 is a reply to message #810884 ]	Wed, 27 July 2022 10:28

Adam
Messages: 6815
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Mike wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 09:52

But then someone mentioned injury - WHAT IF Bouchard gets injured for an extended period? Who runs PP1? Nurse? That's not ideal.

Agree with Kr - Nurse has done fine in spot duty on the PP. He's managed to produce points well there.

Broberg has some offensive instincts too. I think he could be used there too to spell off Bouchard.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810894 is a reply to message #810884 ]	Wed, 27 July 2022 11:15

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3700
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Mike wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 09:52

Dragon_Matt wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 11:43

I don't even believe Barrie is overpaid. Simply that Bouchard is younger and has more offensive upside. If Bouchard didn't pass him this past season, Barrie would be a top 4 Dman and our PP QB, making him worth his contract. We should be presenting him to other teams as a very reasonably priced player with 3 more years who's cap hit more than offsets taking Foegle as part of the deal.

My take as well.

But then someone mentioned injury - WHAT IF Bouchard gets injured for an extended period? Who runs PP1? Nurse? That's not ideal.

And on the subject of Bouchard - when would he become UFA? I think they should do all they can to extend him right now for at least a few years - whatever his UFA-1 year would be. Or if he wants to sign long term right now, I wouldn't be afraid of doing that either.

Problem is - if Barrie is not here this year, Bouchard very well could explode. Both because of the added gravy PP1 time, and the fact he is a year older coming off what was essentially his rookie season. A season where he put up 43 points, with 35 of those at even strength (good for 14th in the NHL). If Barrie is not here this year, and Bouchard is not extended, he could get VERY expensive by the time summer 2023 rolls around.

I agree with all of this and like I said, if you get rid of Barrie, then you need to bring back someone else who can fill his spot. Do you need whoever is in Barrie's roster spot to be able to run a PP and put up 40+ pts, of course not. But I am of the belief, the Oilers are in win now mode. So you need good Dmen from 1-6. Barrie is ideally in your 3rd pairing but if someone gets hurt, maybe Bouchard who's still a very young dman, maybe he has a rough patch which happens with young dmen and maybe you need to reduce his role for a short spurt so he gets a reset. Barrie could slide up and do that and give you some good mins.

So dumping Barrie to get rid of his cap hit and then bringing in a true #6 might not be a good idea. It's definiately not a good idea to hope a raw rookie in Broberg can flip over to play the right just because he did some in Sweden or the AHL. So I do not think trading Barrie for anything is as easy as some people think. If the Oilers were a team that the expectation is to maybe squeak into the playoffs then you could do that. But I think the expectation is they should be challenging for the division lead, be one of the best teams in the West and pushing for a cup.

[Updated on: Wed, 27 July 2022 11:18]

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810896 is a reply to message #810894 ]	Wed, 27 July 2022 11:47

Goose
Messages: 1098
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver

1 Cup

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 10:15

I agree with all of this and like I said, if you get rid of Barrie, then you need to bring back someone else who can fill his spot. Do you need whoever is in Barrie's roster spot to be able to run a PP and put up 40+ pts, of course not. But I am of the belief, the Oilers are in win now mode. So you need good Dmen from 1-6. Barrie is ideally in your 3rd pairing but if someone gets hurt, maybe Bouchard who's still a very young dman, maybe he has a rough patch which happens with young dmen and maybe you need to reduce his role for a short spurt so he gets a reset. Barrie could slide up and do that and give you some good mins.

So dumping Barrie to get rid of his cap hit and then bringing in a true #6 might not be a good idea. It's definiately not a good idea to hope a raw rookie in Broberg can flip over to play the right just because he did some in Sweden or the AHL. So I do not think trading Barrie for anything is as easy as some people think. If the Oilers were a team that the expectation is to maybe squeak into the playoffs then you could do that. But I think the expectation is they should be challenging for the division lead, be one of the best teams in the West and pushing for a cup.

Depends I guess what you mean by 'good minutes'.

This is just one aspect, but a pretty important one I think. Barrie's ability to defend the blueline was in the bottom quarter of all defencemen in the playoffs.

And before you dismiss this as, 'analytics', this is literally just counting events, same as they do for hits or shots, and calculating a percent. It's not meant to be definitive by any means, but it's a real description of what actually happened on the ice.

I think his 5x5 minutes are easily replaceable by an average 3rd pairing defenceman, and that savings in cap can be used to ensure that Derek Ryan isn't the Oilers 2nd line RW.

On a positive note, Bretty Kulak actually shows really well here.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FYrrD7cVEAADNng?format=jpg&name=small

https://twitter.com/DimFilipovic/status/1552312254736920576? s=20&t=UQUSKfXcJ8gYzSESPVbEAg

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810897 is a reply to message #810894 ]	Wed, 27 July 2022 11:50

Kr55
Messages: 9604
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 11:15

Mike wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 09:52

Dragon_Matt wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 11:43

I don't even believe Barrie is overpaid. Simply that Bouchard is younger and has more offensive upside. If Bouchard didn't pass him this past season, Barrie would be a top 4 Dman and our PP QB, making him worth his contract. We should be presenting him to other teams as a very reasonably priced player with 3 more years who's cap hit more than offsets taking Foegle as part of the deal.

My take as well.

But then someone mentioned injury - WHAT IF Bouchard gets injured for an extended period? Who runs PP1? Nurse? That's not ideal.

And on the subject of Bouchard - when would he become UFA? I think they should do all they can to extend him right now for at least a few years - whatever his UFA-1 year would be. Or if he wants to sign long term right now, I wouldn't be afraid of doing that either.

Problem is - if Barrie is not here this year, Bouchard very well could explode. Both because of the added gravy PP1 time, and the fact he is a year older coming off what was essentially his rookie season. A season where he put up 43 points, with 35 of those at even strength (good for 14th in the NHL). If Barrie is not here this year, and Bouchard is not extended, he could get VERY expensive by the time summer 2023 rolls around.

I agree with all of this and like I said, if you get rid of Barrie, then you need to bring back someone else who can fill his spot. Do you need whoever is in Barrie's roster spot to be able to run a PP and put up 40+ pts, of course not. But I am of the belief, the Oilers are in win now mode. So you need good Dmen from 1-6. Barrie is ideally in your 3rd pairing but if someone gets hurt, maybe Bouchard who's still a very young dman, maybe he has a rough patch which happens with young dmen and maybe you need to reduce his role for a short spurt so he gets a reset. Barrie could slide up and do that and give you some good mins.

So dumping Barrie to get rid of his cap hit and then bringing in a true #6 might not be a good idea. It's definiately not a good idea to hope a raw rookie in Broberg can flip over to play the right just because he did some in Sweden or the AHL. So I do not think trading Barrie for anything is as easy as some people think. If the Oilers were a team that the expectation is to maybe squeak into the playoffs then you could do that. But I think the expectation is they should be challenging for the division lead, be one of the best teams in the West and pushing for a cup.

Do you have no concerns that we have no cap space to ensure we have top 6 and top 9 quality forwards to fill out our forward roster? The forwards having guys playing above their ability is the cost of having Barrie making 2x of what his role will be. Such is the way in a cap world, especially with millions of dead cap space. Replace Barrie with someone appropriately costed for the 3rd pair and that can let you have a forward roster with everyone slotted to their capability.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810899 is a reply to message #810897 ]	Wed, 27 July 2022 12:10

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3700
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 11:50

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 11:15

Mike wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 09:52

Dragon_Matt wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 11:43

I don't even believe Barrie is overpaid. Simply that Bouchard is younger and has more offensive upside. If Bouchard didn't pass him this past season, Barrie would be a top 4 Dman and our PP QB, making him worth his contract. We should be presenting him to other teams as a very reasonably priced player with 3 more years who's cap hit more than offsets taking Foegle as part of the deal.

My take as well.

But then someone mentioned injury - WHAT IF Bouchard gets injured for an extended period? Who runs PP1? Nurse? That's not ideal.

And on the subject of Bouchard - when would he become UFA? I think they should do all they can to extend him right now for at least a few years - whatever his UFA-1 year would be. Or if he wants to sign long term right now, I wouldn't be afraid of doing that either.

Problem is - if Barrie is not here this year, Bouchard very well could explode. Both because of the added gravy PP1 time, and the fact he is a year older coming off what was essentially his rookie season. A season where he put up 43 points, with 35 of those at even strength (good for 14th in the NHL). If Barrie is not here this year, and Bouchard is not extended, he could get VERY expensive by the time summer 2023 rolls around.

I agree with all of this and like I said, if you get rid of Barrie, then you need to bring back someone else who can fill his spot. Do you need whoever is in Barrie's roster spot to be able to run a PP and put up 40+ pts, of course not. But I am of the belief, the Oilers are in win now mode. So you need good Dmen from 1-6. Barrie is ideally in your 3rd pairing but if someone gets hurt, maybe Bouchard who's still a very young dman, maybe he has a rough patch which happens with young dmen and maybe you need to reduce his role for a short spurt so he gets a reset. Barrie could slide up and do that and give you some good mins.

So dumping Barrie to get rid of his cap hit and then bringing in a true #6 might not be a good idea. It's definiately not a good idea to hope a raw rookie in Broberg can flip over to play the right just because he did some in Sweden or the AHL. So I do not think trading Barrie for anything is as easy as some people think. If the Oilers were a team that the expectation is to maybe squeak into the playoffs then you could do that. But I think the expectation is they should be challenging for the division lead, be one of the best teams in the West and pushing for a cup.

Do you have no concerns that we have no cap space to ensure we have top 6 and top 9 quality forwards to fill out our forward roster? The forwards having guys playing above their ability is the cost of having Barrie making 2x of what his role will be. Such is the way in a cap world, especially with millions of dead cap space. Replace Barrie with someone appropriately costed for the 3rd pair and that can let you have a forward roster with everyone slotted to their capability.

I am of the opinion that it's more important to have a solid set of 6 dmen to have success in the playoffs than worrying about who's filling out your 3rd line. I think having a poor 3rd pairing is going to do more damage to your team than having an elite 3rd line winger.

I am looking at the team and their top 5 forwards and how I type them out this isn't how I rank them, are:
McD, Leon, Hyman, Kane, Nuge.

So now we are talking about the 6, 7, 8th forward.

I would suggest Barrie is their #5 dman so I would think your #5 dman is going to play more mins than your 7th and 8th forward on most nights.

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810900 is a reply to message #810899 ]	Wed, 27 July 2022 12:21

Dragon_Matt
Messages: 710
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton

No Cups

3rd pairing D last year had anywhere between 10-15 minutes depending on the game.
3rd line forwards had 11-16 minutes.

I'd say each is about as important as the other, so you can't overpay for any of them, otherwise you create a hole elsewhere.

If we were talking about 4th line forwards, you're correct but our 4th line is already dirt cheap.

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810901 is a reply to message #810900 ]	Wed, 27 July 2022 12:32

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3700
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Dragon_Matt wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 12:21

3rd pairing D last year had anywhere between 10-15 minutes depending on the game.
3rd line forwards had 11-16 minutes.

I'd say each is about as important as the other, so you can't overpay for any of them, otherwise you create a hole elsewhere.

If we were talking about 4th line forwards, you're correct but our 4th line is already dirt cheap.

Your #5 dman is probably going to play more towards the 14+ mins.

McLeod because he is a center and is on the PK will get more minutes than who's over on the wing between Yamo or JP. Yamo gets PK time, JP does not. I think the Oilers PK was pretty decent after the coaching change, so I don't see the guys being used on it changing much with the same coaches coming back.

Ideally, they get rid of Foegele to clear up some cap space. If they can get rid of Barrie and replace him with a cheaper 3rd pairing guy. Even if he's got a different skillset, which in reality, might be better, as long as the replacement isn't a pylon, live body type but a guy that can play, all the better.

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810902 is a reply to message #810899 ]	Wed, 27 July 2022 12:40

Kr55
Messages: 9604
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 12:10

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 11:50

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 11:15

Mike wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 09:52

Dragon_Matt wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 11:43

I don't even believe Barrie is overpaid. Simply that Bouchard is younger and has more offensive upside. If Bouchard didn't pass him this past season, Barrie would be a top 4 Dman and our PP QB, making him worth his contract. We should be presenting him to other teams as a very reasonably priced player with 3 more years who's cap hit more than offsets taking Foegle as part of the deal.

My take as well.

But then someone mentioned injury - WHAT IF Bouchard gets injured for an extended period? Who runs PP1? Nurse? That's not ideal.

And on the subject of Bouchard - when would he become UFA? I think they should do all they can to extend him right now for at least a few years - whatever his UFA-1 year would be. Or if he wants to sign long term right now, I wouldn't be afraid of doing that either.

Problem is - if Barrie is not here this year, Bouchard very well could explode. Both because of the added gravy PP1 time, and the fact he is a year older coming off what was essentially his rookie season. A season where he put up 43 points, with 35 of those at even strength (good for 14th in the NHL). If Barrie is not here this year, and Bouchard is not extended, he could get VERY expensive by the time summer 2023 rolls around.

I agree with all of this and like I said, if you get rid of Barrie, then you need to bring back someone else who can fill his spot. Do you need whoever is in Barrie's roster spot to be able to run a PP and put up 40+ pts, of course not. But I am of the belief, the Oilers are in win now mode. So you need good Dmen from 1-6. Barrie is ideally in your 3rd pairing but if someone gets hurt, maybe Bouchard who's still a very young dman, maybe he has a rough patch which happens with young dmen and maybe you need to reduce his role for a short spurt so he gets a reset. Barrie could slide up and do that and give you some good mins.

So dumping Barrie to get rid of his cap hit and then bringing in a true #6 might not be a good idea. It's definiately not a good idea to hope a raw rookie in Broberg can flip over to play the right just because he did some in Sweden or the AHL. So I do not think trading Barrie for anything is as easy as some people think. If the Oilers were a team that the expectation is to maybe squeak into the playoffs then you could do that. But I think the expectation is they should be challenging for the division lead, be one of the best teams in the West and pushing for a cup.

Do you have no concerns that we have no cap space to ensure we have top 6 and top 9 quality forwards to fill out our forward roster? The forwards having guys playing above their ability is the cost of having Barrie making 2x of what his role will be. Such is the way in a cap world, especially with millions of dead cap space. Replace Barrie with someone appropriately costed for the 3rd pair and that can let you have a forward roster with everyone slotted to their capability.

I am of the opinion that it's more important to have a solid set of 6 dmen to have success in the playoffs than worrying about who's filling out your 3rd line. I think having a poor 3rd pairing is going to do more damage to your team than having an elite 3rd line winger.

I am looking at the team and their top 5 forwards and how I type them out this isn't how I rank them, are:
McD, Leon, Hyman, Kane, Nuge.

So now we are talking about the 6, 7, 8th forward.

I would suggest Barrie is their #5 dman so I would think your #5 dman is going to play more mins than your 7th and 8th forward on most nights.

A bad bottom 6 bleeding goals got us swept a couple years ago. There are consequences for having holes in your lineup. IMO the more ppl you have in your top 9 forwards and top 4 D playing in spots they are suited for, the better your chances. Right now we're struggling to sign a couple forwards in the top 9. McLeod is absolutely essential now, he helped a lot in the playoffs. Yams did a lot of good work too.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810904 is a reply to message #810902 ]	Wed, 27 July 2022 13:07

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3700
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 12:40

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 12:10

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 11:50

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 11:15

Mike wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 09:52

Dragon_Matt wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 11:43

I don't even believe Barrie is overpaid. Simply that Bouchard is younger and has more offensive upside. If Bouchard didn't pass him this past season, Barrie would be a top 4 Dman and our PP QB, making him worth his contract. We should be presenting him to other teams as a very reasonably priced player with 3 more years who's cap hit more than offsets taking Foegle as part of the deal.

My take as well.

But then someone mentioned injury - WHAT IF Bouchard gets injured for an extended period? Who runs PP1? Nurse? That's not ideal.

And on the subject of Bouchard - when would he become UFA? I think they should do all they can to extend him right now for at least a few years - whatever his UFA-1 year would be. Or if he wants to sign long term right now, I wouldn't be afraid of doing that either.

Problem is - if Barrie is not here this year, Bouchard very well could explode. Both because of the added gravy PP1 time, and the fact he is a year older coming off what was essentially his rookie season. A season where he put up 43 points, with 35 of those at even strength (good for 14th in the NHL). If Barrie is not here this year, and Bouchard is not extended, he could get VERY expensive by the time summer 2023 rolls around.

I agree with all of this and like I said, if you get rid of Barrie, then you need to bring back someone else who can fill his spot. Do you need whoever is in Barrie's roster spot to be able to run a PP and put up 40+ pts, of course not. But I am of the belief, the Oilers are in win now mode. So you need good Dmen from 1-6. Barrie is ideally in your 3rd pairing but if someone gets hurt, maybe Bouchard who's still a very young dman, maybe he has a rough patch which happens with young dmen and maybe you need to reduce his role for a short spurt so he gets a reset. Barrie could slide up and do that and give you some good mins.

So dumping Barrie to get rid of his cap hit and then bringing in a true #6 might not be a good idea. It's definiately not a good idea to hope a raw rookie in Broberg can flip over to play the right just because he did some in Sweden or the AHL. So I do not think trading Barrie for anything is as easy as some people think. If the Oilers were a team that the expectation is to maybe squeak into the playoffs then you could do that. But I think the expectation is they should be challenging for the division lead, be one of the best teams in the West and pushing for a cup.

Do you have no concerns that we have no cap space to ensure we have top 6 and top 9 quality forwards to fill out our forward roster? The forwards having guys playing above their ability is the cost of having Barrie making 2x of what his role will be. Such is the way in a cap world, especially with millions of dead cap space. Replace Barrie with someone appropriately costed for the 3rd pair and that can let you have a forward roster with everyone slotted to their capability.

I am of the opinion that it's more important to have a solid set of 6 dmen to have success in the playoffs than worrying about who's filling out your 3rd line. I think having a poor 3rd pairing is going to do more damage to your team than having an elite 3rd line winger.

I am looking at the team and their top 5 forwards and how I type them out this isn't how I rank them, are:
McD, Leon, Hyman, Kane, Nuge.

So now we are talking about the 6, 7, 8th forward.

I would suggest Barrie is their #5 dman so I would think your #5 dman is going to play more mins than your 7th and 8th forward on most nights.

A bad bottom 6 bleeding goals got us swept a couple years ago. There are consequences for having holes in your lineup. IMO the more ppl you have in your top 9 forwards and top 4 D playing in spots they are suited for, the better your chances. Right now we're struggling to sign a couple forwards in the top 9. McLeod is absolutely essential now, he helped a lot in the playoffs. Yams did a lot of good work too.

I don't see the Oilers 3rd line bleeding goals going into this season. Right now with the LTIR, the Oilers have enough cap space to sign Mcleod. He's not going to cost you under 2 mill easily, probably closer to 1 given he's got 3/4 of a season total. So even if they do nothing and pretending they let Yamo go to arb then walk from his arc contract. They could have a 3rd line of some combination of Foegele, McLeod, JP/Holloway. I don't see that line bleeding goals against.

In reality, a trade will happen and Yamo will be here so one of Yamo/JP will be on their 3rd line, McLeod will be center and it's just a question of if Foegele is here or not.

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810906 is a reply to message #810904 ]	Wed, 27 July 2022 15:02

Kr55
Messages: 9604
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 13:07

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 12:40

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 12:10

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 11:50

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 11:15

Mike wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 09:52

Dragon_Matt wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 11:43

I don't even believe Barrie is overpaid. Simply that Bouchard is younger and has more offensive upside. If Bouchard didn't pass him this past season, Barrie would be a top 4 Dman and our PP QB, making him worth his contract. We should be presenting him to other teams as a very reasonably priced player with 3 more years who's cap hit more than offsets taking Foegle as part of the deal.

My take as well.

But then someone mentioned injury - WHAT IF Bouchard gets injured for an extended period? Who runs PP1? Nurse? That's not ideal.

And on the subject of Bouchard - when would he become UFA? I think they should do all they can to extend him right now for at least a few years - whatever his UFA-1 year would be. Or if he wants to sign long term right now, I wouldn't be afraid of doing that either.

Problem is - if Barrie is not here this year, Bouchard very well could explode. Both because of the added gravy PP1 time, and the fact he is a year older coming off what was essentially his rookie season. A season where he put up 43 points, with 35 of those at even strength (good for 14th in the NHL). If Barrie is not here this year, and Bouchard is not extended, he could get VERY expensive by the time summer 2023 rolls around.

I agree with all of this and like I said, if you get rid of Barrie, then you need to bring back someone else who can fill his spot. Do you need whoever is in Barrie's roster spot to be able to run a PP and put up 40+ pts, of course not. But I am of the belief, the Oilers are in win now mode. So you need good Dmen from 1-6. Barrie is ideally in your 3rd pairing but if someone gets hurt, maybe Bouchard who's still a very young dman, maybe he has a rough patch which happens with young dmen and maybe you need to reduce his role for a short spurt so he gets a reset. Barrie could slide up and do that and give you some good mins.

So dumping Barrie to get rid of his cap hit and then bringing in a true #6 might not be a good idea. It's definiately not a good idea to hope a raw rookie in Broberg can flip over to play the right just because he did some in Sweden or the AHL. So I do not think trading Barrie for anything is as easy as some people think. If the Oilers were a team that the expectation is to maybe squeak into the playoffs then you could do that. But I think the expectation is they should be challenging for the division lead, be one of the best teams in the West and pushing for a cup.

Do you have no concerns that we have no cap space to ensure we have top 6 and top 9 quality forwards to fill out our forward roster? The forwards having guys playing above their ability is the cost of having Barrie making 2x of what his role will be. Such is the way in a cap world, especially with millions of dead cap space. Replace Barrie with someone appropriately costed for the 3rd pair and that can let you have a forward roster with everyone slotted to their capability.

I am of the opinion that it's more important to have a solid set of 6 dmen to have success in the playoffs than worrying about who's filling out your 3rd line. I think having a poor 3rd pairing is going to do more damage to your team than having an elite 3rd line winger.

I am looking at the team and their top 5 forwards and how I type them out this isn't how I rank them, are:
McD, Leon, Hyman, Kane, Nuge.

So now we are talking about the 6, 7, 8th forward.

I would suggest Barrie is their #5 dman so I would think your #5 dman is going to play more mins than your 7th and 8th forward on most nights.

A bad bottom 6 bleeding goals got us swept a couple years ago. There are consequences for having holes in your lineup. IMO the more ppl you have in your top 9 forwards and top 4 D playing in spots they are suited for, the better your chances. Right now we're struggling to sign a couple forwards in the top 9. McLeod is absolutely essential now, he helped a lot in the playoffs. Yams did a lot of good work too.

I don't see the Oilers 3rd line bleeding goals going into this season. Right now with the LTIR, the Oilers have enough cap space to sign Mcleod. He's not going to cost you under 2 mill easily, probably closer to 1 given he's got 3/4 of a season total. So even if they do nothing and pretending they let Yamo go to arb then walk from his arc contract. They could have a 3rd line of some combination of Foegele, McLeod, JP/Holloway. I don't see that line bleeding goals against.

In reality, a trade will happen and Yamo will be here so one of Yamo/JP will be on their 3rd line, McLeod will be center and it's just a question of if Foegele is here or not.

Holloway is probably a long shot right now.

Right now I guess our lineup looks something like this:

Kane - McDavid - Hyman
Nuge - Drai - Pulju
Foegele - McLeod - ???

Very unlikely McLeod isn't signed, so just putting him in there.

Maybe We would rather go Nuge down the middle, so:

Kane - McDavid - Pulju
Hyman - Drai - ???
Nuge - McLeod - Foegele

I still think we are a man short. I don't like anything else in our lineup in that top 9 aside from Yams who needs a deal. Holloway barely got his feet wet in the AHL and didn't crack PPG, I think he's going to get another year down there.

Would also be nice to have some cap space into the season to be able to add a rental at the deadline. We can barely fill our top 9 forwards today using all LTIR space though in the current cap state. We're also assuming we believe Skinner is a full season backup solution. I haven't paid much attention to the orgs thinking on goaltending.

[Updated on: Wed, 27 July 2022 15:04]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810907 is a reply to message #810906 ]	Wed, 27 July 2022 15:10

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3700
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 15:02

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 13:07

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 12:40

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 12:10

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 11:50

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 11:15

Mike wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 09:52

Dragon_Matt wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 11:43

I don't even believe Barrie is overpaid. Simply that Bouchard is younger and has more offensive upside. If Bouchard didn't pass him this past season, Barrie would be a top 4 Dman and our PP QB, making him worth his contract. We should be presenting him to other teams as a very reasonably priced player with 3 more years who's cap hit more than offsets taking Foegle as part of the deal.

My take as well.

But then someone mentioned injury - WHAT IF Bouchard gets injured for an extended period? Who runs PP1? Nurse? That's not ideal.

And on the subject of Bouchard - when would he become UFA? I think they should do all they can to extend him right now for at least a few years - whatever his UFA-1 year would be. Or if he wants to sign long term right now, I wouldn't be afraid of doing that either.

Problem is - if Barrie is not here this year, Bouchard very well could explode. Both because of the added gravy PP1 time, and the fact he is a year older coming off what was essentially his rookie season. A season where he put up 43 points, with 35 of those at even strength (good for 14th in the NHL). If Barrie is not here this year, and Bouchard is not extended, he could get VERY expensive by the time summer 2023 rolls around.

I agree with all of this and like I said, if you get rid of Barrie, then you need to bring back someone else who can fill his spot. Do you need whoever is in Barrie's roster spot to be able to run a PP and put up 40+ pts, of course not. But I am of the belief, the Oilers are in win now mode. So you need good Dmen from 1-6. Barrie is ideally in your 3rd pairing but if someone gets hurt, maybe Bouchard who's still a very young dman, maybe he has a rough patch which happens with young dmen and maybe you need to reduce his role for a short spurt so he gets a reset. Barrie could slide up and do that and give you some good mins.

So dumping Barrie to get rid of his cap hit and then bringing in a true #6 might not be a good idea. It's definiately not a good idea to hope a raw rookie in Broberg can flip over to play the right just because he did some in Sweden or the AHL. So I do not think trading Barrie for anything is as easy as some people think. If the Oilers were a team that the expectation is to maybe squeak into the playoffs then you could do that. But I think the expectation is they should be challenging for the division lead, be one of the best teams in the West and pushing for a cup.

Do you have no concerns that we have no cap space to ensure we have top 6 and top 9 quality forwards to fill out our forward roster? The forwards having guys playing above their ability is the cost of having Barrie making 2x of what his role will be. Such is the way in a cap world, especially with millions of dead cap space. Replace Barrie with someone appropriately costed for the 3rd pair and that can let you have a forward roster with everyone slotted to their capability.

I am of the opinion that it's more important to have a solid set of 6 dmen to have success in the playoffs than worrying about who's filling out your 3rd line. I think having a poor 3rd pairing is going to do more damage to your team than having an elite 3rd line winger.

I am looking at the team and their top 5 forwards and how I type them out this isn't how I rank them, are:
McD, Leon, Hyman, Kane, Nuge.

So now we are talking about the 6, 7, 8th forward.

I would suggest Barrie is their #5 dman so I would think your #5 dman is going to play more mins than your 7th and 8th forward on most nights.

A bad bottom 6 bleeding goals got us swept a couple years ago. There are consequences for having holes in your lineup. IMO the more ppl you have in your top 9 forwards and top 4 D playing in spots they are suited for, the better your chances. Right now we're struggling to sign a couple forwards in the top 9. McLeod is absolutely essential now, he helped a lot in the playoffs. Yams did a lot of good work too.

I don't see the Oilers 3rd line bleeding goals going into this season. Right now with the LTIR, the Oilers have enough cap space to sign Mcleod. He's not going to cost you under 2 mill easily, probably closer to 1 given he's got 3/4 of a season total. So even if they do nothing and pretending they let Yamo go to arb then walk from his arc contract. They could have a 3rd line of some combination of Foegele, McLeod, JP/Holloway. I don't see that line bleeding goals against.

In reality, a trade will happen and Yamo will be here so one of Yamo/JP will be on their 3rd line, McLeod will be center and it's just a question of if Foegele is here or not.

Holloway is probably a long shot right now.

Right now I guess our lineup looks something like this:

Kane - McDavid - Hyman
Nuge - Drai - Pulju
Foegele - McLeod - ???

Very unlikely McLeod isn't signed, so just putting him in there.

Maybe We would rather go Nuge down the middle, so:

Kane - McDavid - Pulju
Hyman - Drai - ???
Nuge - McLeod - Foegele

I still think we are a man short. I don't like anything else in our lineup in that top 9 aside from Yams who needs a deal. Holloway barely got his feet wet in the AHL and didn't crack PPG, I think he's going to get another year down there.

Would also be nice to have some cap space into the season to be able to add a rental at the deadline. We can barely fill our top 9 forwards today using all LTIR space though in the current cap state. We're also assuming we believe Skinner is a full season backup solution. I haven't paid much attention to the orgs thinking on goaltending.

We will disagree on Holloway. Even though he didn't play much, I don't think the team dresses Holloway and play him the little bit he got in the West Finals if they think he's still far away.

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810908 is a reply to message #810907 ]	Wed, 27 July 2022 15:45

Kr55
Messages: 9604
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 15:10

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 15:02

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 13:07

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 12:40

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 12:10

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 11:50

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 11:15

Mike wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 09:52

Dragon_Matt wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 11:43

I don't even believe Barrie is overpaid. Simply that Bouchard is younger and has more offensive upside. If Bouchard didn't pass him this past season, Barrie would be a top 4 Dman and our PP QB, making him worth his contract. We should be presenting him to other teams as a very reasonably priced player with 3 more years who's cap hit more than offsets taking Foegle as part of the deal.

My take as well.

But then someone mentioned injury - WHAT IF Bouchard gets injured for an extended period? Who runs PP1? Nurse? That's not ideal.

And on the subject of Bouchard - when would he become UFA? I think they should do all they can to extend him right now for at least a few years - whatever his UFA-1 year would be. Or if he wants to sign long term right now, I wouldn't be afraid of doing that either.

Problem is - if Barrie is not here this year, Bouchard very well could explode. Both because of the added gravy PP1 time, and the fact he is a year older coming off what was essentially his rookie season. A season where he put up 43 points, with 35 of those at even strength (good for 14th in the NHL). If Barrie is not here this year, and Bouchard is not extended, he could get VERY expensive by the time summer 2023 rolls around.

I agree with all of this and like I said, if you get rid of Barrie, then you need to bring back someone else who can fill his spot. Do you need whoever is in Barrie's roster spot to be able to run a PP and put up 40+ pts, of course not. But I am of the belief, the Oilers are in win now mode. So you need good Dmen from 1-6. Barrie is ideally in your 3rd pairing but if someone gets hurt, maybe Bouchard who's still a very young dman, maybe he has a rough patch which happens with young dmen and maybe you need to reduce his role for a short spurt so he gets a reset. Barrie could slide up and do that and give you some good mins.

So dumping Barrie to get rid of his cap hit and then bringing in a true #6 might not be a good idea. It's definiately not a good idea to hope a raw rookie in Broberg can flip over to play the right just because he did some in Sweden or the AHL. So I do not think trading Barrie for anything is as easy as some people think. If the Oilers were a team that the expectation is to maybe squeak into the playoffs then you could do that. But I think the expectation is they should be challenging for the division lead, be one of the best teams in the West and pushing for a cup.

Do you have no concerns that we have no cap space to ensure we have top 6 and top 9 quality forwards to fill out our forward roster? The forwards having guys playing above their ability is the cost of having Barrie making 2x of what his role will be. Such is the way in a cap world, especially with millions of dead cap space. Replace Barrie with someone appropriately costed for the 3rd pair and that can let you have a forward roster with everyone slotted to their capability.

I am of the opinion that it's more important to have a solid set of 6 dmen to have success in the playoffs than worrying about who's filling out your 3rd line. I think having a poor 3rd pairing is going to do more damage to your team than having an elite 3rd line winger.

I am looking at the team and their top 5 forwards and how I type them out this isn't how I rank them, are:
McD, Leon, Hyman, Kane, Nuge.

So now we are talking about the 6, 7, 8th forward.

I would suggest Barrie is their #5 dman so I would think your #5 dman is going to play more mins than your 7th and 8th forward on most nights.

A bad bottom 6 bleeding goals got us swept a couple years ago. There are consequences for having holes in your lineup. IMO the more ppl you have in your top 9 forwards and top 4 D playing in spots they are suited for, the better your chances. Right now we're struggling to sign a couple forwards in the top 9. McLeod is absolutely essential now, he helped a lot in the playoffs. Yams did a lot of good work too.

I don't see the Oilers 3rd line bleeding goals going into this season. Right now with the LTIR, the Oilers have enough cap space to sign Mcleod. He's not going to cost you under 2 mill easily, probably closer to 1 given he's got 3/4 of a season total. So even if they do nothing and pretending they let Yamo go to arb then walk from his arc contract. They could have a 3rd line of some combination of Foegele, McLeod, JP/Holloway. I don't see that line bleeding goals against.

In reality, a trade will happen and Yamo will be here so one of Yamo/JP will be on their 3rd line, McLeod will be center and it's just a question of if Foegele is here or not.

Holloway is probably a long shot right now.

Right now I guess our lineup looks something like this:

Kane - McDavid - Hyman
Nuge - Drai - Pulju
Foegele - McLeod - ???

Very unlikely McLeod isn't signed, so just putting him in there.

Maybe We would rather go Nuge down the middle, so:

Kane - McDavid - Pulju
Hyman - Drai - ???
Nuge - McLeod - Foegele

I still think we are a man short. I don't like anything else in our lineup in that top 9 aside from Yams who needs a deal. Holloway barely got his feet wet in the AHL and didn't crack PPG, I think he's going to get another year down there.

Would also be nice to have some cap space into the season to be able to add a rental at the deadline. We can barely fill our top 9 forwards today using all LTIR space though in the current cap state. We're also assuming we believe Skinner is a full season backup solution. I haven't paid much attention to the orgs thinking on goaltending.

We will disagree on Holloway. Even though he didn't play much, I don't think the team dresses Holloway and play him the little bit he got in the West Finals if they think he's still far away.

Played him for 3:27 because of injuries in a nothing to lose game. I think that was just one of those have some fun, get a tiny taste things. Something to think about to motivate him for another AHL season with maybe the odd callup.

Not trying to bash the kid. He's just had his development derailed by some injuries. I don't think he's had enough time to be ready for the NHL. Not his fault, but still has to put in the time.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810909 is a reply to message #810907 ]	Wed, 27 July 2022 15:53

Adam
Messages: 6815
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 15:10

We will disagree on Holloway. Even though he didn't play much, I don't think the team dresses Holloway and play him the little bit he got in the West Finals if they think he's still far away.

Counter-point: In 2006, the Oilers dressed Tobey Peterson for his first two NHL playoff games, and first NHL action in 4 years. They also played Brad Winchester with just 19 games experience in 10 post-season games that year. Neither turned out to be a big part of the future.

The Oilers were down 3-0 in the series and needed some level of spark. I was all for trying him in the lineup, but he looked a little tentative early and the coach didn't seem to trust him, playing him a total of just 3:27 over the entire game. It wasn't the debut that will make him an automatic roster player next year.

I think there's tons of potential in the player and I think there's a good chance he plays a lot of hockey in Edmonton next year, but I don't think he's likely to be in the opening lineup, and ideally when he is brought up, we can put him in Foegele's spot on the fourth line, rather than seeing him as a replacement for Yamamoto or Puljujarvi higher up the roster.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810910 is a reply to message #810909 ]	Wed, 27 July 2022 16:21

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3700
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Adam wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 15:53

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 15:10

We will disagree on Holloway. Even though he didn't play much, I don't think the team dresses Holloway and play him the little bit he got in the West Finals if they think he's still far away.

Counter-point: In 2006, the Oilers dressed Tobey Peterson for his first two NHL playoff games, and first NHL action in 4 years. They also played Brad Winchester with just 19 games experience in 10 post-season games that year. Neither turned out to be a big part of the future.

The Oilers were down 3-0 in the series and needed some level of spark. I was all for trying him in the lineup, but he looked a little tentative early and the coach didn't seem to trust him, playing him a total of just 3:27 over the entire game. It wasn't the debut that will make him an automatic roster player next year.

I think there's tons of potential in the player and I think there's a good chance he plays a lot of hockey in Edmonton next year, but I don't think he's likely to be in the opening lineup, and ideally when he is brought up, we can put him in Foegele's spot on the fourth line, rather than seeing him as a replacement for Yamamoto or Puljujarvi higher up the roster.

I get you get off disagree with me all the time but you are seriously using Toby Pederson and Brad Winchester as a comparison?! Worse, dragging players from 16 yrs ago. Oh come on Adam, be better!

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810919 is a reply to message #810910 ]	Thu, 28 July 2022 08:49

Dragon_Matt
Messages: 710
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton

No Cups

So RDOF believes that after seeing 3:27 of ice time, it's now Holloway's time to shine. It couldn't possibly be that he was out of his depth and needs more experience. Everyone knows that's how NHL coaches think.

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810927 is a reply to message #810910 ]	Thu, 28 July 2022 11:45

Adam
Messages: 6815
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 16:21

Adam wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 15:53

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 15:10

We will disagree on Holloway. Even though he didn't play much, I don't think the team dresses Holloway and play him the little bit he got in the West Finals if they think he's still far away.

Counter-point: In 2006, the Oilers dressed Tobey Peterson for his first two NHL playoff games, and first NHL action in 4 years. They also played Brad Winchester with just 19 games experience in 10 post-season games that year. Neither turned out to be a big part of the future.

The Oilers were down 3-0 in the series and needed some level of spark. I was all for trying him in the lineup, but he looked a little tentative early and the coach didn't seem to trust him, playing him a total of just 3:27 over the entire game. It wasn't the debut that will make him an automatic roster player next year.

I think there's tons of potential in the player and I think there's a good chance he plays a lot of hockey in Edmonton next year, but I don't think he's likely to be in the opening lineup, and ideally when he is brought up, we can put him in Foegele's spot on the fourth line, rather than seeing him as a replacement for Yamamoto or Puljujarvi higher up the roster.

I get you get off disagree with me all the time but you are seriously using Toby Pederson and Brad Winchester as a comparison?! Worse, dragging players from 16 yrs ago. Oh come on Adam, be better!

What I'm saying, is that just because a young player gets a few minutes of post-season ice time, it's not a great predictor of how much they'll play the next season.

Those players got a bigger push than Holloway, and still weren't big contributors to start the next year (although MacTavish would eventually fall in love with Tobey.)

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810929 is a reply to message #810927 ]	Thu, 28 July 2022 12:37

CrudeRemarks
Messages: 1698
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton

1 Cup

I honestly can’t find a difference between Holloway and Tobey P. Just a couple carbon copies of the same player

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810930 is a reply to message #810929 ]	Thu, 28 July 2022 12:40

Dragon_Matt
Messages: 710
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton

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Tobey scored in the playoffs.

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810931 is a reply to message #810930 ]	Thu, 28 July 2022 12:41

Kr55
Messages: 9604
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Dragon_Matt wrote on Thu, 28 July 2022 12:40

Tobey scored in the playoffs.

Tobey saved us from getting Patrick Kane too. Butterfly effect says we wouldn't have got McDavid if not for Tobey.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810937 is a reply to message #810930 ]	Thu, 28 July 2022 13:39

Adam
Messages: 6815
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Dragon_Matt wrote on Thu, 28 July 2022 12:40

Tobey scored in the playoffs.

Winchester too. And he grabbed an octopus.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810938 is a reply to message #810929 ]	Thu, 28 July 2022 22:54

oilfan94
Messages: 343
Registered: June 2006
Location: USA

No Cups

CrudeRemarks wrote on Thu, 28 July 2022 14:37

I honestly can’t find a difference between Holloway and Tobey P. Just a couple carbon copies of the same player

Pretty sure I heard Holloway was like Reasoner, which is basically Joe Sakic. Could be our GM in 30 years.

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810939 is a reply to message #810938 ]	Fri, 29 July 2022 08:39

Dragon_Matt
Messages: 710
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton

No Cups

or 3 years if this whole 'playing' thing doesn't work out.

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #811037 is a reply to message #810939 ]	Sun, 07 August 2022 09:21

GabbyDugan
Messages: 828
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton, AB

No Cups

Update on how Arbitration 2022 is proceeding as of August 9.

https://www.nhl.com/news/nhl-salary-arbitration-hearings-sch edule/c-335014434

Kind of a nothing-to-see-here list. Matthew Tkachuk was a club-elected arbitration, and he was traded and signed by Florida.

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810853 is a reply to message #810671 ]	Tue, 26 July 2022 13:46

inverno76
Messages: 2117
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

https://twitter.com/friedgehnic/status/1551995391687761920?s =21&t=ZQB7cDvSzLcMeRhtH97bTA

Avoided arbitration and came in at a reasonable 1 year deal……now which shoe falls? Trade him? Keep him?

[Updated on: Tue, 26 July 2022 14:26]

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810854 is a reply to message #810853 ]	Tue, 26 July 2022 13:51

Kr55
Messages: 9604
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:46

https://twitter.com/friedgehnic/status/1551995391687761920?s =21&t=ZQB7cDvSzLcMeRhtH97bTA

Avoided arbitration and came in at a reasonable 1 year deal……now which show falls? Trade him? Keep him?

Pulju is gonna come in looking to have a huge year. Sucks that it might guarantee us trading him if he does now. At least we should get some good value back if that happens. In Brad we trust? icon_lol

icon_lol

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810866 is a reply to message #810853 ]	Tue, 26 July 2022 16:20

Skookum Jim
Messages: 3903
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

3 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 12:46

https://twitter.com/friedgehnic/status/1551995391687761920?s =21&t=ZQB7cDvSzLcMeRhtH97bTA

Avoided arbitration and came in at a reasonable 1 year deal……now which shoe falls? Trade him? Keep him?

He's worth $2.5, but $3M facing an un-savvy arbitrator looking at crude hockey stats as a guideline isn't awful.
Hopefully he takes this as a challenge, and sets his mind to improve, starting with summer training.. part of his problem was overall fitness, he couldn't last a full shift.. and he should be shooting 500 pucks a day .. top corners only!! All the tools.. just needs a toolbox to put them all in.

[Updated on: Tue, 26 July 2022 19:07]

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810874 is a reply to message #810671 ]	Tue, 26 July 2022 19:15

Skookum Jim
Messages: 3903
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

3 Cups

Who gets traded for Cap Relief?[ 20 vote(s) ]

1. Puljujarvi (3.0M) 1 / 5%
2. Yammo (~$3.0M?) 1 / 5%
3. Foegle ($2.75M) 8 / 40%
4. Barrie ($4.5M) 8 / 40%
5. KoekKoek ($925K) 2 / 10%

Cap friendly has $3.436M left for McLeod and Yammo.. cap includes Koekoek on the roster.

That math doesn't work.

Someone needs to go.. who's your bet?

I put down Koekkoek.. but he might be buried like last year anyway.. so maybe you have to add that to the $3.436M cap space they have right now.. how much is buried if they send him down again?

[Updated on: Tue, 26 July 2022 19:19]

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810875 is a reply to message #810874 ]	Tue, 26 July 2022 20:26

nullterm
Messages: 926
Registered: July 2007
Location: Port Moody, BC

No Cups

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 18:15

Cap friendly has $3.436M left for McLeod and Yammo.. cap includes Koekoek on the roster.

That math doesn't work.

Someone needs to go.. who's your bet?

I put down Koekkoek.. but he might be buried like last year anyway.. so maybe you have to add that to the $3.436M cap space they have right now.. how much is buried if they send him down again?

Heart says Foegle, but who is going to want him. So no go.

Head says Barrie, as he probably has the most tradable value given a good post season run.

Paranoia says Puljujarvi, but they can't find anyone interested in the risk. So no go.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810876 is a reply to message #810875 ]	Tue, 26 July 2022 20:36

Skookum Jim
Messages: 3903
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

3 Cups

nullterm wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 19:26

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 18:15

Cap friendly has $3.436M left for McLeod and Yammo.. cap includes Koekoek on the roster.

That math doesn't work.

Someone needs to go.. who's your bet?

I put down Koekkoek.. but he might be buried like last year anyway.. so maybe you have to add that to the $3.436M cap space they have right now.. how much is buried if they send him down again?

Heart says Foegle, but who is going to want him. So no go.

Head says Barrie, as he probably has the most tradable value given a good post season run.

Paranoia says Puljujarvi, but they can't find anyone interested in the risk. So no go.

The problem with trading JP is nobody is wants to give anything up for him.. at $3M few teams even have the room, especially if the guy is seen as a performance risk, which he is.
Foelge would be next choice, but again with his cap, and few teams with cap room, says no deal..

Barrie is the most tradable.. but then you have a functional player gone, and a corresponding hole in the line up to fill somehow.. and useable defensemen are harder to find than wingers.. should be interesting to see what unfolds.

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810877 is a reply to message #810874 ]	Tue, 26 July 2022 20:51

smyth260
Messages: 946
Registered: November 2007

No Cups

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 18:15

Cap friendly has $3.436M left for McLeod and Yammo.. cap includes Koekoek on the roster.

That math doesn't work.

Someone needs to go.. who's your bet?

I put down Koekkoek.. but he might be buried like last year anyway.. so maybe you have to add that to the $3.436M cap space they have right now.. how much is buried if they send him down again?

Replacing Koekkoek would only save cap room if his replacement comes less than his cap hit of 925K.

His whole cap hit could be buried, but you still need a body there. Have to look elsewhere for cap savings.

Clean house or bust

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810878 is a reply to message #810877 ]	Wed, 27 July 2022 00:20

Skookum Jim
Messages: 3903
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

3 Cups

smyth260 wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 19:51

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 18:15

Cap friendly has $3.436M left for McLeod and Yammo.. cap includes Koekoek on the roster.

That math doesn't work.

Someone needs to go.. who's your bet?

I put down Koekkoek.. but he might be buried like last year anyway.. so maybe you have to add that to the $3.436M cap space they have right now.. how much is buried if they send him down again?

Replacing Koekkoek would only save cap room if his replacement comes less than his cap hit of 925K.

His whole cap hit could be buried, but you still need a body there. Have to look elsewhere for cap savings.

You are right, unless you go with a short roster, which has been the Vegas model for periods, but unrealistic.

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #811710 is a reply to message #810671 ]	Wed, 07 September 2022 21:01

Kr55
Messages: 9604
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Maybe people have seen already, but I lol every time

https://i.imgflip.com/6sm5zt.jpg

Pulju hopefully erases this impression many have of him completely this season.

[Updated on: Wed, 07 September 2022 21:03]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #811712 is a reply to message #811710 ]	Thu, 08 September 2022 02:33

Skookum Jim
Messages: 3903
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

3 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 07 September 2022 20:01

Maybe people have seen already, but I lol every time

https://i.imgflip.com/6sm5zt.jpg

Pulju hopefully erases this impression many have of him completely this season.

Seek and ye shall find...

https://twitter.com/i/status/1567595286528405504

[Updated on: Thu, 08 September 2022 02:39]

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #811713 is a reply to message #811712 ]	Thu, 08 September 2022 08:15

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3700
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Nielsen is going to do a section of his show about JP in short, shirtless having a dance party in his living room.

I know JP is in good shape so I wouldn't mind seeing videos of him on the ice working on this game with a skills coach or showing up to Edmonton early like Leon to work on his game or being at the " unofficial" captains skates that are I believe started yesterday.

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #811714 is a reply to message #811713 ]	Thu, 08 September 2022 08:19

Adam
Messages: 6815
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 08 September 2022 08:15

Nielsen is going to do a section of his show about JP in short, shirtless having a dance party in his living room.

I know JP is in good shape so I wouldn't mind seeing videos of him on the ice working on this game with a skills coach or showing up to Edmonton early like Leon to work on his game or being at the " unofficial" captains skates that are I believe started yesterday.

https://c.tenor.com/6qJ1NBMnuUUAAAAd/let-the-hate-flow-through-you-sidious.gif

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #811715 is a reply to message #811714 ]	Thu, 08 September 2022 08:26

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3700
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

No problem. Just never seen a player get so much hype about working out and having fun off the ice and so little about hockey. I saw a picture of shirtless McD and his girlfriend on a boat this summer and I am willing to bet, he doesn't have as good of abs as JP does. I don't do my own advanced stats so maybe great abs count more on spreadsheets than finishing plays for goals.

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #811721 is a reply to message #811715 ]	Thu, 08 September 2022 09:53

inverno76
Messages: 2117
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 08 September 2022 08:26

No problem. Just never seen a player get so much hype about working out and having fun off the ice and so little about hockey. I saw a picture of shirtless McD and his girlfriend on a boat this summer and I am willing to bet, he doesn't have as good of abs as JP does. I don't do my own advanced stats so maybe great abs count more on spreadsheets than finishing plays for goals.

The NHL has done such a lousy job marketing their players that the fans of this league cannot even have some fun getting to know the person over the player. You are not alone RDOF, but it's too bad because some of perceived hardest workers in the league might be the biggest jagoffs in real life. I cannot say for certain, but has everyone who has hit the ice been well documented already, and do we even know if Jesse is cleared to skate yet?

This is a nothing burger. Just enjoy it.

(Abs are made in the kitchen and not the gym. It is a small amount of body fat that McDavid chooses to keep that keeps his beach body hidden)

[Updated on: Thu, 08 September 2022 09:55]

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #811725 is a reply to message #811721 ]	Thu, 08 September 2022 10:24

Kr55
Messages: 9604
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Thu, 08 September 2022 09:53

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 08 September 2022 08:26

No problem. Just never seen a player get so much hype about working out and having fun off the ice and so little about hockey. I saw a picture of shirtless McD and his girlfriend on a boat this summer and I am willing to bet, he doesn't have as good of abs as JP does. I don't do my own advanced stats so maybe great abs count more on spreadsheets than finishing plays for goals.

The NHL has done such a lousy job marketing their players that the fans of this league cannot even have some fun getting to know the person over the player. You are not alone RDOF, but it's too bad because some of perceived hardest workers in the league might be the biggest jagoffs in real life. I cannot say for certain, but has everyone who has hit the ice been well documented already, and do we even know if Jesse is cleared to skate yet?

This is a nothing burger. Just enjoy it.

(Abs are made in the kitchen and not the gym. It is a small amount of body fat that McDavid chooses to keep that keeps his beach body hidden)

I thought Jesse signing Shakira was funny. Like the dog enjoying the breeze too.

Sadly that's all I was able to get out of the video.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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