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Oilers » Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810834 is a reply to message #810833 ]	Tue, 26 July 2022 11:52

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3690
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 11:35

The Oilers aren't always stupid here. The Oilers have been consistently, predictably, and shockingly bad for over 20 years on the ice with a direct correlation existing between the people they employ in management and those horrifying on ice results. Even in a good year, like last year, the flaws were so obvious and apparent it's appalling they weren't dealt with in a timely manner. The Oilers are 'always stupid' in reality.

Now it's nice to think the current GM's son will be a breathe of fresh air and change the fortune of the poorly run Oilers and it might, we don't know. It also might not. There's a non-zero possibility that this is just another in a long line of crony or nepotism based hires into senior positions that continue the decades (plural) long cycle of suck. Personally, I lean towards the idea that similar actions (crony-based hiring) will have have similar results (dreadful hockey). That's just me though. Idealistic hope is better for others.

I don't think we know if the GM's son has been given significant authority or input into decision making. We certainly don't know if the GM's son authority or input will have a positive impact on the ice. I also can't fathom how the GM's son will have a nominal impact on how a current player values himself. Especially if the player thinks he's been underpaid and undervalued for years. 3 times not enough could still be not enough.

All we know for certain right now is Brad Holland has a more important sounding title and Puljujarvi has a date with an arbitrator this week... an arbitrator who is unlikely to reduce salary because Brad Holland is now the freshly minted Senior VP of Paperclips.

I don't have any information from anyone but I think JP sees himself being worth way more than 3.5 mill on a deal with any kind of term. If he believes he's this legit top 6 player who helps drive McD's offense, which I think is the biggest load of BS ever stated by advanced stats, but if he believes that, I can't see him accepting anything with any kind of term less than 4 and more likely a lot higher than that.

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810836 is a reply to message #810834 ]	Tue, 26 July 2022 12:35

nullterm
Messages: 926
Registered: July 2007
Location: Port Moody, BC

No Cups

Elliotte Friedman
@FriedgeHNIC
· 17m
Jesse Puljujarvi and EDM avoid arbitration at 1 year, $3M

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810837 is a reply to message #810836 ]	Tue, 26 July 2022 13:04

oilfan94
Messages: 343
Registered: June 2006
Location: USA

No Cups

nullterm wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 14:35

Elliotte Friedman
@FriedgeHNIC
· 17m
Jesse Puljujarvi and EDM avoid arbitration at 1 year, $3M

Wish it was for 2, but not surprised. Hopefully he can have a good year and if he prices himself out then the team can get a good return.

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810835 is a reply to message #810671 ]	Tue, 26 July 2022 12:35

Adrean
Messages: 41
Registered: January 2006
Location: Calgary (for work, not th...

No Cups

Quote:

Elliotte Friedman
@FriedgeHNIC
Jesse Puljujarvi and EDM avoid arbitration at 1 year, $3M

benv wrote on Thu, 02 November 2017 Adrean wins his first Survivor title!
CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 13 February 2019 Mighty Adrean is a two time champion
CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 19 February 2020 For the third time Adam's Dad stands victorious

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810838 is a reply to message #810671 ]	Tue, 26 July 2022 13:05

kungpaobenji27
Messages: 258
Registered: August 2003
Location: Irving, Texas

No Cups

Foegele has to be on the way out...or buried in the minors right now....right?

Only way to resign Yamo and McLeod now

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810839 is a reply to message #810838 ]	Tue, 26 July 2022 13:07

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7635
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

kungpaobenji27 wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:05

Foegele has to be on the way out...or buried in the minors right now....right?

Only way to resign Yamo and McLeod now

They could buyout Barrie!

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810840 is a reply to message #810839 ]	Tue, 26 July 2022 13:08

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3690
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

I think that's a fair deal. That's the max I would want to pay him on a short deal. That's a pretty healthy raise for JP, over 2.5 times what he made last year. I hope both sides come away satisfied.

Gregor saying Oilers wanted 2.8, JP wanted 3.2 I am sure thanks to the Kapanen and his bit of an overpay in my opinion who I believe shares the same agent, set the price. So they met in the middle. The ball is in JP's courts. He's going into his 25 yr old season, it's time to be the player who he will be.

[Updated on: Tue, 26 July 2022 13:14]

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810841 is a reply to message #810840 ]	Tue, 26 July 2022 13:16

nullterm
Messages: 926
Registered: July 2007
Location: Port Moody, BC

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This seems more like a sign and trade at the deadline, rather than a bridge deal. Half a season for JP to pump up his value.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810842 is a reply to message #810839 ]	Tue, 26 July 2022 13:17

Adam
Messages: 6811
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:07

kungpaobenji27 wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:05

Foegele has to be on the way out...or buried in the minors right now....right?

Only way to resign Yamo and McLeod now

They could buyout Barrie!

Or still trade Puljujarvi for pennies on the dollar.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810846 is a reply to message #810842 ]	Tue, 26 July 2022 13:30

Goose
Messages: 1098
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver

1 Cup

Adam wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 12:17

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:07

kungpaobenji27 wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:05

Foegele has to be on the way out...or buried in the minors right now....right?

Only way to resign Yamo and McLeod now

They could buyout Barrie!

Or still trade Puljujarvi for pennies on the dollar.

I think there's a very good chance this happens.

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810843 is a reply to message #810839 ]	Tue, 26 July 2022 13:20

Kr55
Messages: 9573
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:07

kungpaobenji27 wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:05

Foegele has to be on the way out...or buried in the minors right now....right?

Only way to resign Yamo and McLeod now

They could buyout Barrie!

Barrie is the only guy we could trade now to free up space. Seems like we've been shopping Foegele all summer and no takers because he's so overpriced. But we just love Barrie too much to bring ourselves to move him, so we will buy him out next summer after he plays on the 3rd line all year and loses his PP spot.

The Oilers way.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810844 is a reply to message #810843 ]	Tue, 26 July 2022 13:25

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3690
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:20

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:07

kungpaobenji27 wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:05

Foegele has to be on the way out...or buried in the minors right now....right?

Only way to resign Yamo and McLeod now

They could buyout Barrie!

Barrie is the only guy we could trade now to free up space. Seems like we've been shopping Foegele all summer and no takers because he's so overpriced. But we just love Barrie too much to bring ourselves to move him, so we will buy him out next summer after he plays on the 3rd line all year and loses his PP spot.

The Oilers way.

If you trade Barrie, you need a dman to take his spot. Who's doing that? Taking into account this isn't a developing team, it's a team looking to challenge for a cup so plugging in a rookie from Bakersfield I don't think is a good idea.

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810845 is a reply to message #810844 ]	Tue, 26 July 2022 13:27

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7635
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:25

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:20

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:07

kungpaobenji27 wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:05

Foegele has to be on the way out...or buried in the minors right now....right?

Only way to resign Yamo and McLeod now

They could buyout Barrie!

Barrie is the only guy we could trade now to free up space. Seems like we've been shopping Foegele all summer and no takers because he's so overpriced. But we just love Barrie too much to bring ourselves to move him, so we will buy him out next summer after he plays on the 3rd line all year and loses his PP spot.

The Oilers way.

If you trade Barrie, you need a dman to take his spot. Who's doing that? Taking into account this isn't a developing team, it's a team looking to challenge for a cup so plugging in a rookie from Bakersfield I don't think is a good idea.

Bouchard.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810848 is a reply to message #810845 ]	Tue, 26 July 2022 13:33

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3690
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:27

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:25

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:20

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:07

kungpaobenji27 wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:05

Foegele has to be on the way out...or buried in the minors right now....right?

Only way to resign Yamo and McLeod now

They could buyout Barrie!

Barrie is the only guy we could trade now to free up space. Seems like we've been shopping Foegele all summer and no takers because he's so overpriced. But we just love Barrie too much to bring ourselves to move him, so we will buy him out next summer after he plays on the 3rd line all year and loses his PP spot.

The Oilers way.

If you trade Barrie, you need a dman to take his spot. Who's doing that? Taking into account this isn't a developing team, it's a team looking to challenge for a cup so plugging in a rookie from Bakersfield I don't think is a good idea.

Bouchard.

You need a minimum of 6 dmen usually to play, so who's the 6?
Nurse, Ceci, Bouchard, Kulak are locks.
Probably Broberg is in.

Who's your 6th if you dump Barrie as a salary dump?

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neiiRe: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810851 is a reply to message #810848 ]	Tue, 26 July 2022 13:37

Dragon_Matt
Messages: 709
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton

No Cups

Markus Niemelainen
we need some angry on the ice.

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810849 is a reply to message #810845 ]	Tue, 26 July 2022 13:36

Dragon_Matt
Messages: 709
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton

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Foegle and Barrie as a package isn't overpriced. But if that was to happen, we'd need to sign Bouch to an extension sometime in the NOW.

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810847 is a reply to message #810844 ]	Tue, 26 July 2022 13:32

Kr55
Messages: 9573
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:25

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:20

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:07

kungpaobenji27 wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:05

Foegele has to be on the way out...or buried in the minors right now....right?

Only way to resign Yamo and McLeod now

They could buyout Barrie!

Barrie is the only guy we could trade now to free up space. Seems like we've been shopping Foegele all summer and no takers because he's so overpriced. But we just love Barrie too much to bring ourselves to move him, so we will buy him out next summer after he plays on the 3rd line all year and loses his PP spot.

The Oilers way.

If you trade Barrie, you need a dman to take his spot. Who's doing that? Taking into account this isn't a developing team, it's a team looking to challenge for a cup so plugging in a rookie from Bakersfield I don't think is a good idea.

Who is taking the spot of a guy that performs like an average 3rd pair D if he doesn't get spoonfed McDavid ice time and PP time? Not sure, but I think you can fill that spot far cheaper than 4.5M.

Keeping Barrie this year just means we are trying to unload him next summer after he underperforms his cap hit by a significant margin just like Foegele right now. Trade Barrie now, replace him for 1-2M and have 2.5M more to play with this season. Obviously you try to unload Foegele too, and I wouldn't worry about how hard it would be to replace him either.

[Updated on: Tue, 26 July 2022 13:34]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810850 is a reply to message #810847 ]	Tue, 26 July 2022 13:36

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3690
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:32

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:25

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:20

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:07

kungpaobenji27 wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:05

Foegele has to be on the way out...or buried in the minors right now....right?

Only way to resign Yamo and McLeod now

They could buyout Barrie!

Barrie is the only guy we could trade now to free up space. Seems like we've been shopping Foegele all summer and no takers because he's so overpriced. But we just love Barrie too much to bring ourselves to move him, so we will buy him out next summer after he plays on the 3rd line all year and loses his PP spot.

The Oilers way.

If you trade Barrie, you need a dman to take his spot. Who's doing that? Taking into account this isn't a developing team, it's a team looking to challenge for a cup so plugging in a rookie from Bakersfield I don't think is a good idea.

Who is taking the spot of a guy that performs like an average 3rd pair D if he doesn't get spoonfed McDavid ice time and PP time? Not sure, but I think you can fill that spot far cheaper than 4.5M.

Keeping Barrie this year just means we are trying to unload him next summer after he underperforms his cap hit by a significant margin just like Foegele right now. Trade Barrie now, replace him for 1-2M and have 2.5M more to play with this season. Obviously you try to unload Foegele too, and I wouldn't worry about how hard it would be to replace him either.

Sounds great, who you getting for 1-2 mill that is a better and cheaper defender than Barrie? I've seen and heard lots of stats people say that Barrie's D numbers were decent the last half of the season and the playoffs.

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810852 is a reply to message #810850 ]	Tue, 26 July 2022 13:46

Kr55
Messages: 9573
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:36

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:32

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:25

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:20

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:07

kungpaobenji27 wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:05

Foegele has to be on the way out...or buried in the minors right now....right?

Only way to resign Yamo and McLeod now

They could buyout Barrie!

Barrie is the only guy we could trade now to free up space. Seems like we've been shopping Foegele all summer and no takers because he's so overpriced. But we just love Barrie too much to bring ourselves to move him, so we will buy him out next summer after he plays on the 3rd line all year and loses his PP spot.

The Oilers way.

If you trade Barrie, you need a dman to take his spot. Who's doing that? Taking into account this isn't a developing team, it's a team looking to challenge for a cup so plugging in a rookie from Bakersfield I don't think is a good idea.

Who is taking the spot of a guy that performs like an average 3rd pair D if he doesn't get spoonfed McDavid ice time and PP time? Not sure, but I think you can fill that spot far cheaper than 4.5M.

Keeping Barrie this year just means we are trying to unload him next summer after he underperforms his cap hit by a significant margin just like Foegele right now. Trade Barrie now, replace him for 1-2M and have 2.5M more to play with this season. Obviously you try to unload Foegele too, and I wouldn't worry about how hard it would be to replace him either.

Sounds great, who you getting for 1-2 mill that is a better and cheaper defender than Barrie? I've seen and heard lots of stats people say that Barrie's D numbers were decent the last half of the season and the playoffs.

I admittedly am not an expert on all the 3rd pair D available throughout the league, but am going to take a leap that there are many many ways to get one if needed if you have ~2M of cap space to spare.

Barrie without McDavid in the playoffs was 22% GF (2 for, 7 against). Some bad luck involved, but I don't think he was bringing anything that special to the table, aside from that goal in the Kings series :)

Would love to keep everyone, but, to me, Barrie is the most obvious move still. A team desperate for a RHD that can play the PP has to be out there. We were that team for over a decade and suddenly we have 2 guys like that. Not moving Barrie now I think will result in not that much benefit in the season if he loses that PP spot, you'll be paying a guy probably double what he is providing, and then we are trying to Foegele him next summer. Sometimes it just makes sense to be proactive about this stuff, which the Oilers almost never are.

Personally I would pay a team sweetener to take Foegele and I would move Barrie. Foegele's performance very replaceable probably for 1.5M max. Barrie's future as a 3rd pair D for ~2M. The PP actually scored as a higher rate with Nurse than Barrie the last couple years, so you don't even need Barrie as the 2nd PP guy that badly. Bouch has more potential to add a new element to the PP than Barrie at this point. Bouch has the shot. Barrie is mainly just a guy that needs to pass quickly and not give the puck away like 1 armed Klef was.

[Updated on: Tue, 26 July 2022 13:49]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810855 is a reply to message #810852 ]	Tue, 26 July 2022 13:58

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3690
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:46

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:36

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:32

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:25

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:20

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:07

kungpaobenji27 wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:05

Foegele has to be on the way out...or buried in the minors right now....right?

Only way to resign Yamo and McLeod now

They could buyout Barrie!

Barrie is the only guy we could trade now to free up space. Seems like we've been shopping Foegele all summer and no takers because he's so overpriced. But we just love Barrie too much to bring ourselves to move him, so we will buy him out next summer after he plays on the 3rd line all year and loses his PP spot.

The Oilers way.

If you trade Barrie, you need a dman to take his spot. Who's doing that? Taking into account this isn't a developing team, it's a team looking to challenge for a cup so plugging in a rookie from Bakersfield I don't think is a good idea.

Who is taking the spot of a guy that performs like an average 3rd pair D if he doesn't get spoonfed McDavid ice time and PP time? Not sure, but I think you can fill that spot far cheaper than 4.5M.

Keeping Barrie this year just means we are trying to unload him next summer after he underperforms his cap hit by a significant margin just like Foegele right now. Trade Barrie now, replace him for 1-2M and have 2.5M more to play with this season. Obviously you try to unload Foegele too, and I wouldn't worry about how hard it would be to replace him either.

Sounds great, who you getting for 1-2 mill that is a better and cheaper defender than Barrie? I've seen and heard lots of stats people say that Barrie's D numbers were decent the last half of the season and the playoffs.

I admittedly am not an expert on all the 3rd pair D available throughout the league, but am going to take a leap that there are many many ways to get one if needed if you have ~2M of cap space to spare.

Barrie without McDavid in the playoffs was 22% GF (2 for, 7 against). Some bad luck involved, but I don't think he was bringing anything that special to the table, aside from that goal in the Kings series :)

Would love to keep everyone, but, to me, Barrie is the most obvious move still. A team desperate for a RHD that can play the PP has to be out there. We were that team for over a decade and suddenly we have 2 guys like that. Not moving Barrie now I think will result in not that much benefit in the season if he loses that PP spot, you'll be paying a guy probably double what he is providing, and then we are trying to Foegele him next summer. Sometimes it just makes sense to be proactive about this stuff, which the Oilers almost never are.

Personally I would pay a team sweetener to take Foegele and I would move Barrie. Foegele's performance very replaceable probably for 1.5M max. Barrie's future as a 3rd pair D for ~2M. The PP actually scored as a higher rate with Nurse than Barrie the last couple years, so you don't even need Barrie as the 2nd PP guy that badly. Bouch has more potential to add a new element to the PP than Barrie at this point. Bouch has the shot. Barrie is mainly just a guy that needs to pass quickly and not give the puck away like 1 armed Klef was.

All sounds amazing and I am not disagreeing one bit with you nor am I being sarcastic what so ever. If you can get a better dman for cheaper than Barrie, sign me up. But like I said, I don't know who that guy is.

I see the Oilers in a cup window. They will have Bouchard who's a second year dman and most likely Broberg playing defense, so I personally do not think introducing another young dman full time like say Niemelinen or Samoruko or who ever is a good idea. I also believe in putting players into positions to succeed so while I understand Broberg at lower levels can play his offside, I do not think putting Broberg in his first full year in the NHL on his offside is smart. So I think they need a vet to replace Barrie. So they need a veteran, right shot, cheap, better defensive dman than Barrie who isn't a pylon on skates.

Are you of the opinion that the Oilers have turned down the opportunity to get this better, cheaper dman for Barrie? I don't know if he's out there personally. If they did, they are idiots.

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810856 is a reply to message #810855 ]	Tue, 26 July 2022 14:03

Dragon_Matt
Messages: 709
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton

No Cups

Right D, you don't have to replace him with a right shot. Bouch is going to be PP1 and likely Nurse on PP2.

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810860 is a reply to message #810856 ]	Tue, 26 July 2022 14:20

Kr55
Messages: 9573
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Dragon_Matt wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 14:03

Right D, you don't have to replace him with a right shot. Bouch is going to be PP1 and likely Nurse on PP2.

Just meant for the ES time. If we want to try to keep the RH/LH balance on D, we would need another RHD. But yeah, I suppose if you get a decent enough LHD that is comfortable on the right side that should be good enough on the 3rd pair.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810857 is a reply to message #810855 ]	Tue, 26 July 2022 14:07

Kr55
Messages: 9573
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:58

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:46

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:36

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:32

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:25

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:20

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:07

kungpaobenji27 wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:05

Foegele has to be on the way out...or buried in the minors right now....right?

Only way to resign Yamo and McLeod now

They could buyout Barrie!

Barrie is the only guy we could trade now to free up space. Seems like we've been shopping Foegele all summer and no takers because he's so overpriced. But we just love Barrie too much to bring ourselves to move him, so we will buy him out next summer after he plays on the 3rd line all year and loses his PP spot.

The Oilers way.

If you trade Barrie, you need a dman to take his spot. Who's doing that? Taking into account this isn't a developing team, it's a team looking to challenge for a cup so plugging in a rookie from Bakersfield I don't think is a good idea.

Who is taking the spot of a guy that performs like an average 3rd pair D if he doesn't get spoonfed McDavid ice time and PP time? Not sure, but I think you can fill that spot far cheaper than 4.5M.

Keeping Barrie this year just means we are trying to unload him next summer after he underperforms his cap hit by a significant margin just like Foegele right now. Trade Barrie now, replace him for 1-2M and have 2.5M more to play with this season. Obviously you try to unload Foegele too, and I wouldn't worry about how hard it would be to replace him either.

Sounds great, who you getting for 1-2 mill that is a better and cheaper defender than Barrie? I've seen and heard lots of stats people say that Barrie's D numbers were decent the last half of the season and the playoffs.

I admittedly am not an expert on all the 3rd pair D available throughout the league, but am going to take a leap that there are many many ways to get one if needed if you have ~2M of cap space to spare.

Barrie without McDavid in the playoffs was 22% GF (2 for, 7 against). Some bad luck involved, but I don't think he was bringing anything that special to the table, aside from that goal in the Kings series :)

Would love to keep everyone, but, to me, Barrie is the most obvious move still. A team desperate for a RHD that can play the PP has to be out there. We were that team for over a decade and suddenly we have 2 guys like that. Not moving Barrie now I think will result in not that much benefit in the season if he loses that PP spot, you'll be paying a guy probably double what he is providing, and then we are trying to Foegele him next summer. Sometimes it just makes sense to be proactive about this stuff, which the Oilers almost never are.

Personally I would pay a team sweetener to take Foegele and I would move Barrie. Foegele's performance very replaceable probably for 1.5M max. Barrie's future as a 3rd pair D for ~2M. The PP actually scored as a higher rate with Nurse than Barrie the last couple years, so you don't even need Barrie as the 2nd PP guy that badly. Bouch has more potential to add a new element to the PP than Barrie at this point. Bouch has the shot. Barrie is mainly just a guy that needs to pass quickly and not give the puck away like 1 armed Klef was.

All sounds amazing and I am not disagreeing one bit with you nor am I being sarcastic what so ever. If you can get a better dman for cheaper than Barrie, sign me up. But like I said, I don't know who that guy is.

I see the Oilers in a cup window. They will have Bouchard who's a second year dman and most likely Broberg playing defense, so I personally do not think introducing another young dman full time like say Niemelinen or Samoruko or who ever is a good idea. I also believe in putting players into positions to succeed so while I understand Broberg at lower levels can play his offside, I do not think putting Broberg in his first full year in the NHL on his offside is smart. So I think they need a vet to replace Barrie. So they need a veteran, right shot, cheap, better defensive dman than Barrie who isn't a pylon on skates.

Are you of the opinion that the Oilers have turned down the opportunity to get this better, cheaper dman for Barrie? I don't know if he's out there personally. If they did, they are idiots.

I just think "as good as Barrie" in the context of him losing his PP spot is a very low bar to hit. Maybe you need to make a small trade for a 3rd pair D, but it shouldn't be a hard gap to fill IMO. Maybe as part of the trade of Barrie you get a cheaper RHD back from the team trying to get a PP specialist. The important part is that you're clearing the 4.5M off your books that would be going to a guy that will end up performing at a ~2M level. Barrie without PP time and the prime time with the top line (that makes almost any D look good on paper) is a very mediocre D IMO.

I think the Oilers just like Barrie and are not seriously shopping him. Barrie signed a discount to stay here after leading the league in points, he's a great guy and good friends with lots of our players. Maybe there is a loyalty barrier to get over to move him. He's redundant on this team though, it's very clear. It will be much much harder to move him next summer unless Bouch is injured most of the year.

[Updated on: Tue, 26 July 2022 14:10]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810858 is a reply to message #810857 ]	Tue, 26 July 2022 14:12

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3690
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 14:07

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:58

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:46

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:36

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:32

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:25

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:20

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:07

kungpaobenji27 wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:05

Foegele has to be on the way out...or buried in the minors right now....right?

Only way to resign Yamo and McLeod now

They could buyout Barrie!

Barrie is the only guy we could trade now to free up space. Seems like we've been shopping Foegele all summer and no takers because he's so overpriced. But we just love Barrie too much to bring ourselves to move him, so we will buy him out next summer after he plays on the 3rd line all year and loses his PP spot.

The Oilers way.

If you trade Barrie, you need a dman to take his spot. Who's doing that? Taking into account this isn't a developing team, it's a team looking to challenge for a cup so plugging in a rookie from Bakersfield I don't think is a good idea.

Who is taking the spot of a guy that performs like an average 3rd pair D if he doesn't get spoonfed McDavid ice time and PP time? Not sure, but I think you can fill that spot far cheaper than 4.5M.

Keeping Barrie this year just means we are trying to unload him next summer after he underperforms his cap hit by a significant margin just like Foegele right now. Trade Barrie now, replace him for 1-2M and have 2.5M more to play with this season. Obviously you try to unload Foegele too, and I wouldn't worry about how hard it would be to replace him either.

Sounds great, who you getting for 1-2 mill that is a better and cheaper defender than Barrie? I've seen and heard lots of stats people say that Barrie's D numbers were decent the last half of the season and the playoffs.

I admittedly am not an expert on all the 3rd pair D available throughout the league, but am going to take a leap that there are many many ways to get one if needed if you have ~2M of cap space to spare.

Barrie without McDavid in the playoffs was 22% GF (2 for, 7 against). Some bad luck involved, but I don't think he was bringing anything that special to the table, aside from that goal in the Kings series :)

Would love to keep everyone, but, to me, Barrie is the most obvious move still. A team desperate for a RHD that can play the PP has to be out there. We were that team for over a decade and suddenly we have 2 guys like that. Not moving Barrie now I think will result in not that much benefit in the season if he loses that PP spot, you'll be paying a guy probably double what he is providing, and then we are trying to Foegele him next summer. Sometimes it just makes sense to be proactive about this stuff, which the Oilers almost never are.

Personally I would pay a team sweetener to take Foegele and I would move Barrie. Foegele's performance very replaceable probably for 1.5M max. Barrie's future as a 3rd pair D for ~2M. The PP actually scored as a higher rate with Nurse than Barrie the last couple years, so you don't even need Barrie as the 2nd PP guy that badly. Bouch has more potential to add a new element to the PP than Barrie at this point. Bouch has the shot. Barrie is mainly just a guy that needs to pass quickly and not give the puck away like 1 armed Klef was.

All sounds amazing and I am not disagreeing one bit with you nor am I being sarcastic what so ever. If you can get a better dman for cheaper than Barrie, sign me up. But like I said, I don't know who that guy is.

I see the Oilers in a cup window. They will have Bouchard who's a second year dman and most likely Broberg playing defense, so I personally do not think introducing another young dman full time like say Niemelinen or Samoruko or who ever is a good idea. I also believe in putting players into positions to succeed so while I understand Broberg at lower levels can play his offside, I do not think putting Broberg in his first full year in the NHL on his offside is smart. So I think they need a vet to replace Barrie. So they need a veteran, right shot, cheap, better defensive dman than Barrie who isn't a pylon on skates.

Are you of the opinion that the Oilers have turned down the opportunity to get this better, cheaper dman for Barrie? I don't know if he's out there personally. If they did, they are idiots.

I just think "as good as Barrie" in the context of him losing his PP spot is a very low bar to hit. Maybe you need to make a small trade for a 3rd pair D, but it shouldn't be a hard gap to fill IMO. Maybe as part of the trade of Barrie you get a cheaper RHD back from the team trying to get a PP specialist. The important part is that you're clearing the 4.5M off your books that would be going to a guy that will end up performing at a ~2M level. Barrie without PP time and the prime time with the top line (that makes almost any D look good on paper) is a very mediocre D IMO.

I think the Oilers just like Barrie and are not seriously shopping him. Barrie signed a discount to stay here, he's a great guy and good friends with lots of our players. Maybe there is a loyalty barrier to get over to move him. He's redundant on this team though, it's very clear. It will be much much harder to move him next summer.

I am of the opinion that personality wise, they do like Barrie and so does the room. I think when it comes to on the ice, they are not in a rush to get rid of him for the sake of getting rid of him like some fans want. I also think if they do trade him, they would want to know they are getting an upgrade for sure vs rolling the dice on the guy. Better to keep the guy you know vs get rid of him and hope another guy is better then have him not work out.

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810859 is a reply to message #810858 ]	Tue, 26 July 2022 14:18

Kr55
Messages: 9573
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 14:12

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 14:07

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:58

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:46

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:36

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:32

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:25

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:20

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:07

kungpaobenji27 wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:05

Foegele has to be on the way out...or buried in the minors right now....right?

Only way to resign Yamo and McLeod now

They could buyout Barrie!

Barrie is the only guy we could trade now to free up space. Seems like we've been shopping Foegele all summer and no takers because he's so overpriced. But we just love Barrie too much to bring ourselves to move him, so we will buy him out next summer after he plays on the 3rd line all year and loses his PP spot.

The Oilers way.

If you trade Barrie, you need a dman to take his spot. Who's doing that? Taking into account this isn't a developing team, it's a team looking to challenge for a cup so plugging in a rookie from Bakersfield I don't think is a good idea.

Who is taking the spot of a guy that performs like an average 3rd pair D if he doesn't get spoonfed McDavid ice time and PP time? Not sure, but I think you can fill that spot far cheaper than 4.5M.

Keeping Barrie this year just means we are trying to unload him next summer after he underperforms his cap hit by a significant margin just like Foegele right now. Trade Barrie now, replace him for 1-2M and have 2.5M more to play with this season. Obviously you try to unload Foegele too, and I wouldn't worry about how hard it would be to replace him either.

Sounds great, who you getting for 1-2 mill that is a better and cheaper defender than Barrie? I've seen and heard lots of stats people say that Barrie's D numbers were decent the last half of the season and the playoffs.

I admittedly am not an expert on all the 3rd pair D available throughout the league, but am going to take a leap that there are many many ways to get one if needed if you have ~2M of cap space to spare.

Barrie without McDavid in the playoffs was 22% GF (2 for, 7 against). Some bad luck involved, but I don't think he was bringing anything that special to the table, aside from that goal in the Kings series :)

Would love to keep everyone, but, to me, Barrie is the most obvious move still. A team desperate for a RHD that can play the PP has to be out there. We were that team for over a decade and suddenly we have 2 guys like that. Not moving Barrie now I think will result in not that much benefit in the season if he loses that PP spot, you'll be paying a guy probably double what he is providing, and then we are trying to Foegele him next summer. Sometimes it just makes sense to be proactive about this stuff, which the Oilers almost never are.

Personally I would pay a team sweetener to take Foegele and I would move Barrie. Foegele's performance very replaceable probably for 1.5M max. Barrie's future as a 3rd pair D for ~2M. The PP actually scored as a higher rate with Nurse than Barrie the last couple years, so you don't even need Barrie as the 2nd PP guy that badly. Bouch has more potential to add a new element to the PP than Barrie at this point. Bouch has the shot. Barrie is mainly just a guy that needs to pass quickly and not give the puck away like 1 armed Klef was.

All sounds amazing and I am not disagreeing one bit with you nor am I being sarcastic what so ever. If you can get a better dman for cheaper than Barrie, sign me up. But like I said, I don't know who that guy is.

I see the Oilers in a cup window. They will have Bouchard who's a second year dman and most likely Broberg playing defense, so I personally do not think introducing another young dman full time like say Niemelinen or Samoruko or who ever is a good idea. I also believe in putting players into positions to succeed so while I understand Broberg at lower levels can play his offside, I do not think putting Broberg in his first full year in the NHL on his offside is smart. So I think they need a vet to replace Barrie. So they need a veteran, right shot, cheap, better defensive dman than Barrie who isn't a pylon on skates.

Are you of the opinion that the Oilers have turned down the opportunity to get this better, cheaper dman for Barrie? I don't know if he's out there personally. If they did, they are idiots.

I just think "as good as Barrie" in the context of him losing his PP spot is a very low bar to hit. Maybe you need to make a small trade for a 3rd pair D, but it shouldn't be a hard gap to fill IMO. Maybe as part of the trade of Barrie you get a cheaper RHD back from the team trying to get a PP specialist. The important part is that you're clearing the 4.5M off your books that would be going to a guy that will end up performing at a ~2M level. Barrie without PP time and the prime time with the top line (that makes almost any D look good on paper) is a very mediocre D IMO.

I think the Oilers just like Barrie and are not seriously shopping him. Barrie signed a discount to stay here, he's a great guy and good friends with lots of our players. Maybe there is a loyalty barrier to get over to move him. He's redundant on this team though, it's very clear. It will be much much harder to move him next summer.

I am of the opinion that personality wise, they do like Barrie and so does the room. I think when it comes to on the ice, they are not in a rush to get rid of him for the sake of getting rid of him like some fans want. I also think if they do trade him, they would want to know they are getting an upgrade for sure vs rolling the dice on the guy. Better to keep the guy you know vs get rid of him and hope another guy is better then have him not work out.

An upgrade on what though? Someone that playing 3rd pair time is losing the possession battle most of the time? It's not that hard to replace that player. I think maybe we have different views of what Barrie is. I think he's just a passable 3rd pair D if he's not getting the PP time. When you imply it would be hard to replace him, I just don't see it that way. Without a doubt a GM worth close to 5M should easily be able to replace that role for far cheaper IMO.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810861 is a reply to message #810859 ]	Tue, 26 July 2022 14:38

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3690
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 14:18

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 14:12

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 14:07

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:58

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:46

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:36

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:32

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:25

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:20

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:07

kungpaobenji27 wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:05

Foegele has to be on the way out...or buried in the minors right now....right?

Only way to resign Yamo and McLeod now

They could buyout Barrie!

Barrie is the only guy we could trade now to free up space. Seems like we've been shopping Foegele all summer and no takers because he's so overpriced. But we just love Barrie too much to bring ourselves to move him, so we will buy him out next summer after he plays on the 3rd line all year and loses his PP spot.

The Oilers way.

If you trade Barrie, you need a dman to take his spot. Who's doing that? Taking into account this isn't a developing team, it's a team looking to challenge for a cup so plugging in a rookie from Bakersfield I don't think is a good idea.

Who is taking the spot of a guy that performs like an average 3rd pair D if he doesn't get spoonfed McDavid ice time and PP time? Not sure, but I think you can fill that spot far cheaper than 4.5M.

Keeping Barrie this year just means we are trying to unload him next summer after he underperforms his cap hit by a significant margin just like Foegele right now. Trade Barrie now, replace him for 1-2M and have 2.5M more to play with this season. Obviously you try to unload Foegele too, and I wouldn't worry about how hard it would be to replace him either.

Sounds great, who you getting for 1-2 mill that is a better and cheaper defender than Barrie? I've seen and heard lots of stats people say that Barrie's D numbers were decent the last half of the season and the playoffs.

I admittedly am not an expert on all the 3rd pair D available throughout the league, but am going to take a leap that there are many many ways to get one if needed if you have ~2M of cap space to spare.

Barrie without McDavid in the playoffs was 22% GF (2 for, 7 against). Some bad luck involved, but I don't think he was bringing anything that special to the table, aside from that goal in the Kings series :)

Would love to keep everyone, but, to me, Barrie is the most obvious move still. A team desperate for a RHD that can play the PP has to be out there. We were that team for over a decade and suddenly we have 2 guys like that. Not moving Barrie now I think will result in not that much benefit in the season if he loses that PP spot, you'll be paying a guy probably double what he is providing, and then we are trying to Foegele him next summer. Sometimes it just makes sense to be proactive about this stuff, which the Oilers almost never are.

Personally I would pay a team sweetener to take Foegele and I would move Barrie. Foegele's performance very replaceable probably for 1.5M max. Barrie's future as a 3rd pair D for ~2M. The PP actually scored as a higher rate with Nurse than Barrie the last couple years, so you don't even need Barrie as the 2nd PP guy that badly. Bouch has more potential to add a new element to the PP than Barrie at this point. Bouch has the shot. Barrie is mainly just a guy that needs to pass quickly and not give the puck away like 1 armed Klef was.

All sounds amazing and I am not disagreeing one bit with you nor am I being sarcastic what so ever. If you can get a better dman for cheaper than Barrie, sign me up. But like I said, I don't know who that guy is.

I see the Oilers in a cup window. They will have Bouchard who's a second year dman and most likely Broberg playing defense, so I personally do not think introducing another young dman full time like say Niemelinen or Samoruko or who ever is a good idea. I also believe in putting players into positions to succeed so while I understand Broberg at lower levels can play his offside, I do not think putting Broberg in his first full year in the NHL on his offside is smart. So I think they need a vet to replace Barrie. So they need a veteran, right shot, cheap, better defensive dman than Barrie who isn't a pylon on skates.

Are you of the opinion that the Oilers have turned down the opportunity to get this better, cheaper dman for Barrie? I don't know if he's out there personally. If they did, they are idiots.

I just think "as good as Barrie" in the context of him losing his PP spot is a very low bar to hit. Maybe you need to make a small trade for a 3rd pair D, but it shouldn't be a hard gap to fill IMO. Maybe as part of the trade of Barrie you get a cheaper RHD back from the team trying to get a PP specialist. The important part is that you're clearing the 4.5M off your books that would be going to a guy that will end up performing at a ~2M level. Barrie without PP time and the prime time with the top line (that makes almost any D look good on paper) is a very mediocre D IMO.

I think the Oilers just like Barrie and are not seriously shopping him. Barrie signed a discount to stay here, he's a great guy and good friends with lots of our players. Maybe there is a loyalty barrier to get over to move him. He's redundant on this team though, it's very clear. It will be much much harder to move him next summer.

I am of the opinion that personality wise, they do like Barrie and so does the room. I think when it comes to on the ice, they are not in a rush to get rid of him for the sake of getting rid of him like some fans want. I also think if they do trade him, they would want to know they are getting an upgrade for sure vs rolling the dice on the guy. Better to keep the guy you know vs get rid of him and hope another guy is better then have him not work out.

An upgrade on what though? Someone that playing 3rd pair time is losing the possession battle most of the time? It's not that hard to replace that player. I think maybe we have different views of what Barrie is. I think he's just a passable 3rd pair D if he's not getting the PP time. When you imply it would be hard to replace him, I just don't see it that way. Without a doubt a GM worth close to 5M should easily be able to replace that role for far cheaper IMO.

I guess we have differing opinions but I see the Oilers going into a potential cup challenging window so I am not looking for them to downgrade their defense.
I see Barrie as a dman who when paired with a good skating dman, he can give you OK defensive hockey like he was when he was with Kulak. Defensively, he didn't have a good first half, the second half was decent and so were his playoffs. I see him as a smart, very good puck mover 5 on 5 which in the NHL these days is important. Every dman has to be able to move the puck at least a bit thse days in my opinion. He can be a PP QB if you need him. On the Oilers, that's a luxury they could afford to lose. I see him as a guy who is at this point in his career best suited for the 3rd pair but if something happens, he could play more and not kill you. He's also a right shot and experienced and when you have Bouchard AND Broberg in your line up, you need experienced guys.

I am not interested in playing a rookie in Broberg on his offside. I don't care if he has done it before in lower levels, he's got 23 total NHL games. That's it. I believe he played virtually all those games on the left. The NHL is the hardest league in the world, him moving up to the NHL will already be a huge learning curve, I am not piling on the pressure of playing your offside while you learn the NHL game. I believe they should put young players especially defense in positions to succeed, asking a rookie to play your offside is not doing that. I also do not think forcing someone else to play their offside is a good idea unless they have been doing that are many years.

So to replace him and not downgrade your defense, you need a dman that:
- has experience and is a right shot.
- can defend at least at Barrie's level when he was playing well in the second half.
- be able to move the puck at least some.
- can't be a pylon on skates.

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810864 is a reply to message #810861 ]	Tue, 26 July 2022 15:57

inverno76
Messages: 2109
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 14:38

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 14:18

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 14:12

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 14:07

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:58

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:46

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:36

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:32

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:25

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:20

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:07

kungpaobenji27 wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:05

Foegele has to be on the way out...or buried in the minors right now....right?

Only way to resign Yamo and McLeod now

They could buyout Barrie!

Barrie is the only guy we could trade now to free up space. Seems like we've been shopping Foegele all summer and no takers because he's so overpriced. But we just love Barrie too much to bring ourselves to move him, so we will buy him out next summer after he plays on the 3rd line all year and loses his PP spot.

The Oilers way.

If you trade Barrie, you need a dman to take his spot. Who's doing that? Taking into account this isn't a developing team, it's a team looking to challenge for a cup so plugging in a rookie from Bakersfield I don't think is a good idea.

Who is taking the spot of a guy that performs like an average 3rd pair D if he doesn't get spoonfed McDavid ice time and PP time? Not sure, but I think you can fill that spot far cheaper than 4.5M.

Keeping Barrie this year just means we are trying to unload him next summer after he underperforms his cap hit by a significant margin just like Foegele right now. Trade Barrie now, replace him for 1-2M and have 2.5M more to play with this season. Obviously you try to unload Foegele too, and I wouldn't worry about how hard it would be to replace him either.

Sounds great, who you getting for 1-2 mill that is a better and cheaper defender than Barrie? I've seen and heard lots of stats people say that Barrie's D numbers were decent the last half of the season and the playoffs.

I admittedly am not an expert on all the 3rd pair D available throughout the league, but am going to take a leap that there are many many ways to get one if needed if you have ~2M of cap space to spare.

Barrie without McDavid in the playoffs was 22% GF (2 for, 7 against). Some bad luck involved, but I don't think he was bringing anything that special to the table, aside from that goal in the Kings series :)

Would love to keep everyone, but, to me, Barrie is the most obvious move still. A team desperate for a RHD that can play the PP has to be out there. We were that team for over a decade and suddenly we have 2 guys like that. Not moving Barrie now I think will result in not that much benefit in the season if he loses that PP spot, you'll be paying a guy probably double what he is providing, and then we are trying to Foegele him next summer. Sometimes it just makes sense to be proactive about this stuff, which the Oilers almost never are.

Personally I would pay a team sweetener to take Foegele and I would move Barrie. Foegele's performance very replaceable probably for 1.5M max. Barrie's future as a 3rd pair D for ~2M. The PP actually scored as a higher rate with Nurse than Barrie the last couple years, so you don't even need Barrie as the 2nd PP guy that badly. Bouch has more potential to add a new element to the PP than Barrie at this point. Bouch has the shot. Barrie is mainly just a guy that needs to pass quickly and not give the puck away like 1 armed Klef was.

All sounds amazing and I am not disagreeing one bit with you nor am I being sarcastic what so ever. If you can get a better dman for cheaper than Barrie, sign me up. But like I said, I don't know who that guy is.

I see the Oilers in a cup window. They will have Bouchard who's a second year dman and most likely Broberg playing defense, so I personally do not think introducing another young dman full time like say Niemelinen or Samoruko or who ever is a good idea. I also believe in putting players into positions to succeed so while I understand Broberg at lower levels can play his offside, I do not think putting Broberg in his first full year in the NHL on his offside is smart. So I think they need a vet to replace Barrie. So they need a veteran, right shot, cheap, better defensive dman than Barrie who isn't a pylon on skates.

Are you of the opinion that the Oilers have turned down the opportunity to get this better, cheaper dman for Barrie? I don't know if he's out there personally. If they did, they are idiots.

I just think "as good as Barrie" in the context of him losing his PP spot is a very low bar to hit. Maybe you need to make a small trade for a 3rd pair D, but it shouldn't be a hard gap to fill IMO. Maybe as part of the trade of Barrie you get a cheaper RHD back from the team trying to get a PP specialist. The important part is that you're clearing the 4.5M off your books that would be going to a guy that will end up performing at a ~2M level. Barrie without PP time and the prime time with the top line (that makes almost any D look good on paper) is a very mediocre D IMO.

I think the Oilers just like Barrie and are not seriously shopping him. Barrie signed a discount to stay here, he's a great guy and good friends with lots of our players. Maybe there is a loyalty barrier to get over to move him. He's redundant on this team though, it's very clear. It will be much much harder to move him next summer.

I am of the opinion that personality wise, they do like Barrie and so does the room. I think when it comes to on the ice, they are not in a rush to get rid of him for the sake of getting rid of him like some fans want. I also think if they do trade him, they would want to know they are getting an upgrade for sure vs rolling the dice on the guy. Better to keep the guy you know vs get rid of him and hope another guy is better then have him not work out.

An upgrade on what though? Someone that playing 3rd pair time is losing the possession battle most of the time? It's not that hard to replace that player. I think maybe we have different views of what Barrie is. I think he's just a passable 3rd pair D if he's not getting the PP time. When you imply it would be hard to replace him, I just don't see it that way. Without a doubt a GM worth close to 5M should easily be able to replace that role for far cheaper IMO.

I guess we have differing opinions but I see the Oilers going into a potential cup challenging window so I am not looking for them to downgrade their defense.
I see Barrie as a dman who when paired with a good skating dman, he can give you OK defensive hockey like he was when he was with Kulak. Defensively, he didn't have a good first half, the second half was decent and so were his playoffs. I see him as a smart, very good puck mover 5 on 5 which in the NHL these days is important. Every dman has to be able to move the puck at least a bit thse days in my opinion. He can be a PP QB if you need him. On the Oilers, that's a luxury they could afford to lose. I see him as a guy who is at this point in his career best suited for the 3rd pair but if something happens, he could play more and not kill you. He's also a right shot and experienced and when you have Bouchard AND Broberg in your line up, you need experienced guys.

I am not interested in playing a rookie in Broberg on his offside. I don't care if he has done it before in lower levels, he's got 23 total NHL games. That's it. I believe he played virtually all those games on the left. The NHL is the hardest league in the world, him moving up to the NHL will already be a huge learning curve, I am not piling on the pressure of playing your offside while you learn the NHL game. I believe they should put young players especially defense in positions to succeed, asking a rookie to play your offside is not doing that. I also do not think forcing someone else to play their offside is a good idea unless they have been doing that are many years.

So to replace him and not downgrade your defense, you need a dman that:
- has experience and is a right shot.
- can defend at least at Barrie's level when he was playing well in the second half.
- be able to move the puck at least some.
- can't be a pylon on skates.

At the very least Holland needs to be looking for a replacement player with a shut down acumen. I like Soucy. LH shot, but can play either side. 1.75M cheaper with an expiring contract.

Not sure if that deal us out there, but it makes financial sense and fits the team’s needs.

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810865 is a reply to message #810861 ]	Tue, 26 July 2022 16:12

Goose
Messages: 1098
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver

1 Cup

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:38

I guess we have differing opinions but I see the Oilers going into a potential cup challenging window so I am not looking for them to downgrade their defense.
I see Barrie as a dman who when paired with a good skating dman, he can give you OK defensive hockey like he was when he was with Kulak. Defensively, he didn't have a good first half, the second half was decent and so were his playoffs. I see him as a smart, very good puck mover 5 on 5 which in the NHL these days is important. Every dman has to be able to move the puck at least a bit thse days in my opinion. He can be a PP QB if you need him. On the Oilers, that's a luxury they could afford to lose. I see him as a guy who is at this point in his career best suited for the 3rd pair but if something happens, he could play more and not kill you. He's also a right shot and experienced and when you have Bouchard AND Broberg in your line up, you need experienced guys.

I am not interested in playing a rookie in Broberg on his offside. I don't care if he has done it before in lower levels, he's got 23 total NHL games. That's it. I believe he played virtually all those games on the left. The NHL is the hardest league in the world, him moving up to the NHL will already be a huge learning curve, I am not piling on the pressure of playing your offside while you learn the NHL game. I believe they should put young players especially defense in positions to succeed, asking a rookie to play your offside is not doing that. I also do not think forcing someone else to play their offside is a good idea unless they have been doing that are many years.

So to replace him and not downgrade your defense, you need a dman that:
- has experience and is a right shot.
- can defend at least at Barrie's level when he was playing well in the second half.
- be able to move the puck at least some.
- can't be a pylon on skates.

I get the argument about not wanting to downgrade the defence, but even if Barrie were the best 3rd pair defenceman in the league in a cap world it's still a massive misallocation of resources to be paying him that much to play that role.

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810867 is a reply to message #810865 ]	Tue, 26 July 2022 16:21

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3690
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Goose wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 16:12

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:38

I guess we have differing opinions but I see the Oilers going into a potential cup challenging window so I am not looking for them to downgrade their defense.
I see Barrie as a dman who when paired with a good skating dman, he can give you OK defensive hockey like he was when he was with Kulak. Defensively, he didn't have a good first half, the second half was decent and so were his playoffs. I see him as a smart, very good puck mover 5 on 5 which in the NHL these days is important. Every dman has to be able to move the puck at least a bit thse days in my opinion. He can be a PP QB if you need him. On the Oilers, that's a luxury they could afford to lose. I see him as a guy who is at this point in his career best suited for the 3rd pair but if something happens, he could play more and not kill you. He's also a right shot and experienced and when you have Bouchard AND Broberg in your line up, you need experienced guys.

I am not interested in playing a rookie in Broberg on his offside. I don't care if he has done it before in lower levels, he's got 23 total NHL games. That's it. I believe he played virtually all those games on the left. The NHL is the hardest league in the world, him moving up to the NHL will already be a huge learning curve, I am not piling on the pressure of playing your offside while you learn the NHL game. I believe they should put young players especially defense in positions to succeed, asking a rookie to play your offside is not doing that. I also do not think forcing someone else to play their offside is a good idea unless they have been doing that are many years.

So to replace him and not downgrade your defense, you need a dman that:
- has experience and is a right shot.
- can defend at least at Barrie's level when he was playing well in the second half.
- be able to move the puck at least some.
- can't be a pylon on skates.

I get the argument about not wanting to downgrade the defence, but even if Barrie were the best 3rd pair defenceman in the league in a cap world it's still a massive misallocation of resources to be paying him that much to play that role.

You guys continue to dance around the issue. You can get rid of Barrie and I am sure they could find someone in need of an offensive dman to just dump the salary on them for not much back but they have to replace him. I fully understand Bouchard can replace him on the PP. I am not talking about that. I am talking about replacing Barrie, the right shot NHL dman that he is. Maybe you don't like Barrie personally, maybe you don't think he defends well enough or think he makes too much money for what he does and that is fine. It does not change the fact that he is a right shot, NHL dman that could play on 31 other teams.

If you trade Barrie today and don't have a viable NHL dman to replace his spot on the 3rd line, then the next guy up in the Oilers system to play the right side in the 3rd pairing is Desharnais. Or you flip over a rookie in Broberg. I see the Oilers in a cup window now and I think it would be a massive mistake to expect Desharnais who's never played in the NHL to take over Barrie's spot or to expect a Dman with 23 career NHL games to flip over to his opposite side.

So yes I agree, with Bouchard passing Barrie, it seems like Barrie is too expensive for the reduced role he will be in sharing or giving up the PP all together. But they Oilers can't just dump Barrie for nothing and not have another dman in place. They can't be going into camp hoping some rookie can fill his spot. Ideally, they attach and asset and trade Foegele. I am curious to know what exactly the Ducks are doing. They are 4.3 mill under the cap floor.

[Updated on: Tue, 26 July 2022 16:25]

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810868 is a reply to message #810867 ]	Tue, 26 July 2022 16:23

Kr55
Messages: 9573
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 16:21

Goose wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 16:12

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:38

I guess we have differing opinions but I see the Oilers going into a potential cup challenging window so I am not looking for them to downgrade their defense.
I see Barrie as a dman who when paired with a good skating dman, he can give you OK defensive hockey like he was when he was with Kulak. Defensively, he didn't have a good first half, the second half was decent and so were his playoffs. I see him as a smart, very good puck mover 5 on 5 which in the NHL these days is important. Every dman has to be able to move the puck at least a bit thse days in my opinion. He can be a PP QB if you need him. On the Oilers, that's a luxury they could afford to lose. I see him as a guy who is at this point in his career best suited for the 3rd pair but if something happens, he could play more and not kill you. He's also a right shot and experienced and when you have Bouchard AND Broberg in your line up, you need experienced guys.

I am not interested in playing a rookie in Broberg on his offside. I don't care if he has done it before in lower levels, he's got 23 total NHL games. That's it. I believe he played virtually all those games on the left. The NHL is the hardest league in the world, him moving up to the NHL will already be a huge learning curve, I am not piling on the pressure of playing your offside while you learn the NHL game. I believe they should put young players especially defense in positions to succeed, asking a rookie to play your offside is not doing that. I also do not think forcing someone else to play their offside is a good idea unless they have been doing that are many years.

So to replace him and not downgrade your defense, you need a dman that:
- has experience and is a right shot.
- can defend at least at Barrie's level when he was playing well in the second half.
- be able to move the puck at least some.
- can't be a pylon on skates.

I get the argument about not wanting to downgrade the defence, but even if Barrie were the best 3rd pair defenceman in the league in a cap world it's still a massive misallocation of resources to be paying him that much to play that role.

You guys continue to dance around the issue. You can get rid of Barrie and I am sure they could find someone in need of an offensive dman to just dump the salary on them for not much back but they have to replace him. I fully understand Bouchard can replace him on the PP. I am not talking about that. I am talking about replacing Barrie, the right shot NHL dman that he is. Maybe you don't like Barrie personally, maybe you don't think he defends well enough or think he makes too much money for what he does and that is fine. It does not change the fact that he is a right shot, NHL dman that could play on 31 other teams.

If you trade Barrie today and don't have a viable NHL dman to replace his spot on the 3rd line, then the next guy up in the Oilers system to play the right side in the 3rd pairing is Desharnais. Or you flip over a rookie in Broberg. I see the Oilers in a cup window now and I think it would be a massive mistake to expect Desharnais who's never played in the NHL to take over Barrie's spot or to expect a Dman with 23 career NHL games to flip over to his opposite side.

It might be more of a mistake though to have 4.5M locked up on a 3rd pair D when you could use ~2.5M of that money to improve other areas of the team. That's the balance that needs to be found. We are struggling now to resign our forwards to have at least 3 solid forward lines, and part of the reason we are struggling to do that is because we are overpaying some guys for the role they will play next season. To me Foegele and Barrie are clearly players that will be making more than they are worth next season on our team. Also of course we are paying millions to guys not even on our roster. Hopefully that is done with soon

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810870 is a reply to message #810867 ]	Tue, 26 July 2022 16:31

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7635
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 16:21

Goose wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 16:12

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 13:38

I guess we have differing opinions but I see the Oilers going into a potential cup challenging window so I am not looking for them to downgrade their defense.
I see Barrie as a dman who when paired with a good skating dman, he can give you OK defensive hockey like he was when he was with Kulak. Defensively, he didn't have a good first half, the second half was decent and so were his playoffs. I see him as a smart, very good puck mover 5 on 5 which in the NHL these days is important. Every dman has to be able to move the puck at least a bit thse days in my opinion. He can be a PP QB if you need him. On the Oilers, that's a luxury they could afford to lose. I see him as a guy who is at this point in his career best suited for the 3rd pair but if something happens, he could play more and not kill you. He's also a right shot and experienced and when you have Bouchard AND Broberg in your line up, you need experienced guys.

I am not interested in playing a rookie in Broberg on his offside. I don't care if he has done it before in lower levels, he's got 23 total NHL games. That's it. I believe he played virtually all those games on the left. The NHL is the hardest league in the world, him moving up to the NHL will already be a huge learning curve, I am not piling on the pressure of playing your offside while you learn the NHL game. I believe they should put young players especially defense in positions to succeed, asking a rookie to play your offside is not doing that. I also do not think forcing someone else to play their offside is a good idea unless they have been doing that are many years.

So to replace him and not downgrade your defense, you need a dman that:
- has experience and is a right shot.
- can defend at least at Barrie's level when he was playing well in the second half.
- be able to move the puck at least some.
- can't be a pylon on skates.

I get the argument about not wanting to downgrade the defence, but even if Barrie were the best 3rd pair defenceman in the league in a cap world it's still a massive misallocation of resources to be paying him that much to play that role.

You guys continue to dance around the issue. You can get rid of Barrie and I am sure they could find someone in need of an offensive dman to just dump the salary on them for not much back but they have to replace him. I fully understand Bouchard can replace him on the PP. I am not talking about that. I am talking about replacing Barrie, the right shot NHL dman that he is. Maybe you don't like Barrie personally, maybe you don't think he defends well enough or think he makes too much money for what he does and that is fine. It does not change the fact that he is a right shot, NHL dman that could play on 31 other teams.

If you trade Barrie today and don't have a viable NHL dman to replace his spot on the 3rd line, then the next guy up in the Oilers system to play the right side in the 3rd pairing is Desharnais. Or you flip over a rookie in Broberg. I see the Oilers in a cup window now and I think it would be a massive mistake to expect Desharnais who's never played in the NHL to take over Barrie's spot or to expect a Dman with 23 career NHL games to flip over to his opposite side.

Ideally, they attach and asset and trade Foegele. I am curious to know what exactly the Ducks are doing. They are 4.3 mill under the cap floor.

The issue isn't who replaces Barrie. The issue is, as always, poor management forcing the Oilers to make stupid and panicked decisions to cover for their mismanagement. No one wants to replace a real (but overpaid) NHL player for a sub-replacement level meat bag. But here we are, it needs to happen because the incompetently run Oilers have predictably bungled their way into a corner.

Ultimately who replaces Barrie and Foegle doesn't matter. We know we're either going to be watching someone else's problem, a guy that can't handle the spot, or a not yet ready rookie. There is no replacement for Barrie at a price the Oilers can afford. Unless they buy out Barrie.

3 million is cap savings this year alone!

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810871 is a reply to message #810867 ]	Tue, 26 July 2022 16:44

Goose
Messages: 1098
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver

1 Cup

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 15:21

You guys continue to dance around the issue. You can get rid of Barrie and I am sure they could find someone in need of an offensive dman to just dump the salary on them for not much back but they have to replace him. I fully understand Bouchard can replace him on the PP. I am not talking about that. I am talking about replacing Barrie, the right shot NHL dman that he is. Maybe you don't like Barrie personally, maybe you don't think he defends well enough or think he makes too much money for what he does and that is fine. It does not change the fact that he is a right shot, NHL dman that could play on 31 other teams.

If you trade Barrie today and don't have a viable NHL dman to replace his spot on the 3rd line, then the next guy up in the Oilers system to play the right side in the 3rd pairing is Desharnais. Or you flip over a rookie in Broberg. I see the Oilers in a cup window now and I think it would be a massive mistake to expect Desharnais who's never played in the NHL to take over Barrie's spot or to expect a Dman with 23 career NHL games to flip over to his opposite side.

So yes I agree, with Bouchard passing Barrie, it seems like Barrie is too expensive for the reduced role he will be in sharing or giving up the PP all together. But they Oilers can't just dump Barrie for nothing and not have another dman in place. They can't be going into camp hoping some rookie can fill his spot. Ideally, they attach and asset and trade Foegele. I am curious to know what exactly the Ducks are doing. They are 4.3 mill under the cap floor.

Maybe Ethan Bear is available from Carolina.

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810872 is a reply to message #810871 ]	Tue, 26 July 2022 17:02

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3690
Registered: January 2016

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Goose wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 16:44

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 26 July 2022 15:21

You guys continue to dance around the issue. You can get rid of Barrie and I am sure they could find someone in need of an offensive dman to just dump the salary on them for not much back but they have to replace him. I fully understand Bouchard can replace him on the PP. I am not talking about that. I am talking about replacing Barrie, the right shot NHL dman that he is. Maybe you don't like Barrie personally, maybe you don't think he defends well enough or think he makes too much money for what he does and that is fine. It does not change the fact that he is a right shot, NHL dman that could play on 31 other teams.

If you trade Barrie today and don't have a viable NHL dman to replace his spot on the 3rd line, then the next guy up in the Oilers system to play the right side in the 3rd pairing is Desharnais. Or you flip over a rookie in Broberg. I see the Oilers in a cup window now and I think it would be a massive mistake to expect Desharnais who's never played in the NHL to take over Barrie's spot or to expect a Dman with 23 career NHL games to flip over to his opposite side.

So yes I agree, with Bouchard passing Barrie, it seems like Barrie is too expensive for the reduced role he will be in sharing or giving up the PP all together. But they Oilers can't just dump Barrie for nothing and not have another dman in place. They can't be going into camp hoping some rookie can fill his spot. Ideally, they attach and asset and trade Foegele. I am curious to know what exactly the Ducks are doing. They are 4.3 mill under the cap floor.

Maybe Ethan Bear is available from Carolina.

Maybe. Bear seems to be a player that hardcore advanced numbers people are high on. I'm curious/ I'd be somewhat concerned if they brought him in, why a team that is supposedly as big into numbers as the Canes are, haven't signed him?

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810879 is a reply to message #810872 ]	Wed, 27 July 2022 08:43

Dragon_Matt
Messages: 709
Registered: January 2009
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I don't even believe Barrie is overpaid. Simply that Bouchard is younger and has more offensive upside. If Bouchard didn't pass him this past season, Barrie would be a top 4 Dman and our PP QB, making him worth his contract. We should be presenting him to other teams as a very reasonably priced player with 3 more years who's cap hit more than offsets taking Foegle as part of the deal.

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810880 is a reply to message #810879 ]	Wed, 27 July 2022 09:19

Kr55
Messages: 9573
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

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Dragon_Matt wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 08:43

I don't even believe Barrie is overpaid. Simply that Bouchard is younger and has more offensive upside. If Bouchard didn't pass him this past season, Barrie would be a top 4 Dman and our PP QB, making him worth his contract. We should be presenting him to other teams as a very reasonably priced player with 3 more years who's cap hit more than offsets taking Foegle as part of the deal.

Barrie should be very tradable now.

Trading guys before their value will very predictably plummet because of lack of opportunity...that's the trick.

And clearly our team balance is off as we struggle to sign our forwards because of lack of cap space. I think Yams and McLeod showed they have a lot of potential for this team. And would be wonderful to be able to get a ringer like Kessel on a bargain deal if we were able to shed Barrie and Foegele.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810882 is a reply to message #810880 ]	Wed, 27 July 2022 09:42

Dragon_Matt
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I would not be opposed to including Yamamoto as a sweetener to get something of substance back. I believe PJ has room to grow still, where we've seen Yamamoto's peak.

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810883 is a reply to message #810882 ]	Wed, 27 July 2022 09:48

Kr55
Messages: 9573
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

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Dragon_Matt wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 09:42

I would not be opposed to including Yamamoto as a sweetener to get something of substance back. I believe PJ has room to grow still, where we've seen Yamamoto's peak.

I'm still pretty positive about Yams. He's had some struggles for sure, but I appreciate players that work their butt off and are very smart. I think he's going to keep figuring out his game and start getting more consistent. Should end up a solid all situation player, maybe 50-60 points if he gets top 6 ice time.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810888 is a reply to message #810880 ]	Wed, 27 July 2022 10:21

Adam
Messages: 6811
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 09:19

Dragon_Matt wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 08:43

I don't even believe Barrie is overpaid. Simply that Bouchard is younger and has more offensive upside. If Bouchard didn't pass him this past season, Barrie would be a top 4 Dman and our PP QB, making him worth his contract. We should be presenting him to other teams as a very reasonably priced player with 3 more years who's cap hit more than offsets taking Foegle as part of the deal.

Barrie should be very tradable now.

Trading guys before their value will very predictably plummet because of lack of opportunity...that's the trick.

And clearly our team balance is off as we struggle to sign our forwards because of lack of cap space. I think Yams and McLeod showed they have a lot of potential for this team. And would be wonderful to be able to get a ringer like Kessel on a bargain deal if we were able to shed Barrie and Foegele.

I think even Foegele should have some marketability, especially if we aren't looking for much of a return for him. Flush him for a 6th or 7th round pick, and then sign a league minimum guy with solid possession numbers off the bargain bin late in the summer.

Tyson Barrie is a little harder to replace - as the defence bucket of UFAs is a little lighter. That said, he isn't a great even strength contributor because he's not a strong enough defender to be out on the ice without a lot of help against top competition. He is really a third pairing, weak competition guy, and so if he's not your PP quarterback, then he's not worth his salary.

I expect that the market is more focused on John Klingberg right now as the "free" option for a quarterback, since he's UFA. At the point where he picks his spot and signs, then there should be some teams left as bridesmaids, and maybe one of them antes up a bit for Barrie.

The one other thing that the Oilers should be working very diligently on this summer is getting Bouchard an extension. He scored two more points (43) than Barrie this season, despite a tiny fraction of the powerplay time. If he takes even a bit more of that load this year, and continues to take strides forward, he's a 50-60 point defenceman. If he were to be the main guy on the PP? Maybe he's a 70 point player. The team needs to lock down some level of price certainty ahead of that. Ideally, I'd want to sign him before I traded Barrie, because the only thing holding back his value is how little he plays on the PP right now and once Barrie is gone, then he is getting a big, big second deal. Get him to the longest, cheapest deal you can, and then pull the trigger on a Barrie deal. Otherwise (and here I'll loop this back to what the thread is actually about) then there's virtually no chance to re-sign Puljujarvi next year because everything extra is going to re-sign Bouchard if they don't get that done right now.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810890 is a reply to message #810888 ]	Wed, 27 July 2022 10:41

Kr55
Messages: 9573
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 10:21

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 09:19

Dragon_Matt wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 08:43

I don't even believe Barrie is overpaid. Simply that Bouchard is younger and has more offensive upside. If Bouchard didn't pass him this past season, Barrie would be a top 4 Dman and our PP QB, making him worth his contract. We should be presenting him to other teams as a very reasonably priced player with 3 more years who's cap hit more than offsets taking Foegle as part of the deal.

Barrie should be very tradable now.

Trading guys before their value will very predictably plummet because of lack of opportunity...that's the trick.

And clearly our team balance is off as we struggle to sign our forwards because of lack of cap space. I think Yams and McLeod showed they have a lot of potential for this team. And would be wonderful to be able to get a ringer like Kessel on a bargain deal if we were able to shed Barrie and Foegele.

I think even Foegele should have some marketability, especially if we aren't looking for much of a return for him. Flush him for a 6th or 7th round pick, and then sign a league minimum guy with solid possession numbers off the bargain bin late in the summer.

Tyson Barrie is a little harder to replace - as the defence bucket of UFAs is a little lighter. That said, he isn't a great even strength contributor because he's not a strong enough defender to be out on the ice without a lot of help against top competition. He is really a third pairing, weak competition guy, and so if he's not your PP quarterback, then he's not worth his salary.

I expect that the market is more focused on John Klingberg right now as the "free" option for a quarterback, since he's UFA. At the point where he picks his spot and signs, then there should be some teams left as bridesmaids, and maybe one of them antes up a bit for Barrie.

The one other thing that the Oilers should be working very diligently on this summer is getting Bouchard an extension. He scored two more points (43) than Barrie this season, despite a tiny fraction of the powerplay time. If he takes even a bit more of that load this year, and continues to take strides forward, he's a 50-60 point defenceman. If he were to be the main guy on the PP? Maybe he's a 70 point player. The team needs to lock down some level of price certainty ahead of that. Ideally, I'd want to sign him before I traded Barrie, because the only thing holding back his value is how little he plays on the PP right now and once Barrie is gone, then he is getting a big, big second deal. Get him to the longest, cheapest deal you can, and then pull the trigger on a Barrie deal. Otherwise (and here I'll loop this back to what the thread is actually about) then there's virtually no chance to re-sign Puljujarvi next year because everything extra is going to re-sign Bouchard if they don't get that done right now.

Bouch's ES production alone will justify a huge raise, he doesn't even need the PP time. The PP production can just be assumed if a guy is getting ~40 ES points, like how Nurse scored his big contract. I would not keep Barrie around just to try to block out Bouch from the PP, it will be kinda meaningless in the end and at worst it could be destructive to negotiations if it's obvious we were trying to suppress Bouch's stats in such a lame way. Sacrificing a better PP and winning just to try to stop Bouch from getting more points? Clownish.

Agree 100%, if we can sign Bouch now, do it. If I was in Bouch's camp though, I would be holding off because it's so up in the air of how his next season will go with so much upside potential for Bouch's camp. GIving the Oilers org the benefit of the doubt here that they are trying, but takes 2 to tango.

[Updated on: Wed, 27 July 2022 10:46]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810893 is a reply to message #810890 ]	Wed, 27 July 2022 10:50

Goose
Messages: 1098
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver

1 Cup

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 09:41

Bouch's ES production alone will justify a huge raise, he doesn't even need the PP time. The PP production can just be assumed if a guy is getting ~40 ES points, like how Nurse scored his big contract. I would not keep Barrie around just to try to block out Bouch from the PP, it will be kinda meaningless in the end and at worst it could be destructive to negotiations if it's obvious we were trying to suppress Bouch's stats in such a lame way. Sacrificing a better PP and winning just to try to stop Bouch from getting more points? Clownish.

Agree 100%, if we can sign Bouch now, do it. If I was in Bouch's camp though, I would be holding off because it's so up in the air of how his next season will go with so much upside potential for Bouch's camp. GIving the Oilers org the benefit of the doubt here that they are trying, but takes 2 to tango.

Ya, thinking about this a bit more, it's probably too late to get Bouchard on deal similar to Klefbom's. 12 goals/43 points (10/35 at even strength), is a great season for a defenceman. If I was Bouchard, I wouldn't be signing anything long-term that didn't start with a 6 and, honestly, the Oilers should probably still do that if it's an option.

[Updated on: Wed, 27 July 2022 10:52]

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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Re: Puljujarvi + Yamamoto File for Arbitration [message #810884 is a reply to message #810879 ]	Wed, 27 July 2022 09:52

Mike
Messages: 1059
Registered: August 2005
Location: Moncton, New Brunswick

1 Cup

Dragon_Matt wrote on Wed, 27 July 2022 11:43

I don't even believe Barrie is overpaid. Simply that Bouchard is younger and has more offensive upside. If Bouchard didn't pass him this past season, Barrie would be a top 4 Dman and our PP QB, making him worth his contract. We should be presenting him to other teams as a very reasonably priced player with 3 more years who's cap hit more than offsets taking Foegle as part of the deal.

My take as well.

But then someone mentioned injury - WHAT IF Bouchard gets injured for an extended period? Who runs PP1? Nurse? That's not ideal.

And on the subject of Bouchard - when would he become UFA? I think they should do all they can to extend him right now for at least a few years - whatever his UFA-1 year would be. Or if he wants to sign long term right now, I wouldn't be afraid of doing that either.

Problem is - if Barrie is not here this year, Bouchard very well could explode. Both because of the added gravy PP1 time, and the fact he is a year older coming off what was essentially his rookie season. A season where he put up 43 points, with 35 of those at even strength (good for 14th in the NHL). If Barrie is not here this year, and Bouchard is not extended, he could get VERY expensive by the time summer 2023 rolls around.

[Updated on: Wed, 27 July 2022 09:54]

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