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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #786932 is a reply to message #786930 ]
Mon, 31 May 2021 14:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
Messages: 6815
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 14:47

Adam wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 14:34

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 13:46

Hey, did you guys know that Holland's son Brad Holland is one of our scouts now? :)

https://www.nhl.com/oilers/info/media-guide-19-20

page 28. Apparently he's the only guy allowed to wear a suit among our scouts.


Was looking for what our analytics team looked like. I guess it's just a guy, Justin Mahe (page 28 too, and page 4 kinda suggests it's a 1 man team)


Good grief. Does every executive get a few free positions for family members and other nepotism? Is that part of the sales pitch when we're signing these guys up?

I'm pretty shocked Mike Chiarelli has managed to keep his job. I assumed most of these positions disappeared when the more famous relative gets canned.

EDIT: Also, that thing scared me. I saw Howson's photo in there and saw red. Then noticed afterwards that it's a 2019-2020 booklet, so it's before his departure to the AHL. I was worried he'd boomeranged again.

WOW, do you guys need something to talk about. You are scoring a 2 yr old media guy for things to complain about?


Some quick questions for you:

Do you think Brad Holland got his job because he is the best person for that critical role within the organization? Or because his dad is the GM?

What about Mike Chiarelli - best available person for the job?

Do you think in today's day and age, given the massive amount that most of the really good teams are spending on analytics, that a single person is an adequate amount of resources to devote to it for an NHL team?

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #786933 is a reply to message #786932 ]
Mon, 31 May 2021 14:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 9602
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
6 Cups
Adam wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 14:54

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 14:47

Adam wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 14:34

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 13:46

Hey, did you guys know that Holland's son Brad Holland is one of our scouts now? :)

https://www.nhl.com/oilers/info/media-guide-19-20

page 28. Apparently he's the only guy allowed to wear a suit among our scouts.


Was looking for what our analytics team looked like. I guess it's just a guy, Justin Mahe (page 28 too, and page 4 kinda suggests it's a 1 man team)


Good grief. Does every executive get a few free positions for family members and other nepotism? Is that part of the sales pitch when we're signing these guys up?

I'm pretty shocked Mike Chiarelli has managed to keep his job. I assumed most of these positions disappeared when the more famous relative gets canned.

EDIT: Also, that thing scared me. I saw Howson's photo in there and saw red. Then noticed afterwards that it's a 2019-2020 booklet, so it's before his departure to the AHL. I was worried he'd boomeranged again.

WOW, do you guys need something to talk about. You are scoring a 2 yr old media guy for things to complain about?


Some quick questions for you:

Do you think Brad Holland got his job because he is the best person for that critical role within the organization? Or because his dad is the GM?

What about Mike Chiarelli - best available person for the job?

Do you think in today's day and age, given the massive amount that most of the really good teams are spending on analytics, that a single person is an adequate amount of resources to devote to it for an NHL team?


Brad Holland's career appears to be some civil law practice. Communications/logistics work with the Leafs, and forum moderation and online video work for nhl.com.

I have to give him credit I guess. Probably a more diverse background than most of the family members we hire.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #786937 is a reply to message #786932 ]
Mon, 31 May 2021 15:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently online RDOilerfan
Messages: 3699
Registered: January 2016
3 Cups
Adam wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 14:54

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 14:47

Adam wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 14:34

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 13:46

Hey, did you guys know that Holland's son Brad Holland is one of our scouts now? :)

https://www.nhl.com/oilers/info/media-guide-19-20

page 28. Apparently he's the only guy allowed to wear a suit among our scouts.


Was looking for what our analytics team looked like. I guess it's just a guy, Justin Mahe (page 28 too, and page 4 kinda suggests it's a 1 man team)


Good grief. Does every executive get a few free positions for family members and other nepotism? Is that part of the sales pitch when we're signing these guys up?

I'm pretty shocked Mike Chiarelli has managed to keep his job. I assumed most of these positions disappeared when the more famous relative gets canned.

EDIT: Also, that thing scared me. I saw Howson's photo in there and saw red. Then noticed afterwards that it's a 2019-2020 booklet, so it's before his departure to the AHL. I was worried he'd boomeranged again.

WOW, do you guys need something to talk about. You are scoring a 2 yr old media guy for things to complain about?


Some quick questions for you:

Do you think Brad Holland got his job because he is the best person for that critical role within the organization? Or because his dad is the GM?

What about Mike Chiarelli - best available person for the job?

Do you think in today's day and age, given the massive amount that most of the really good teams are spending on analytics, that a single person is an adequate amount of resources to devote to it for an NHL team?

Until you 2 starting debating about him from a 2 yr old media, I didn't know he was in the organization or knew he even existed. I have no idea if he's good at his job or not. Maybe he's really good, maybe he doesn't nothing more than make photo copies of scouting reports and they gave him a fake title. I don't know anything about him.

Do you know anything about him Adam or are you basing your opinion on his name? I am not saying he's good or bad but I have worked with many a guy who's family member was a boss and just because they have the same last name, doesn't mean they are awful at their job.

[Updated on: Mon, 31 May 2021 15:19]

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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #786939 is a reply to message #786937 ]
Mon, 31 May 2021 15:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks is currently offline CrudeRemarks
Messages: 1698
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 15:17

Adam wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 14:54

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 14:47

Adam wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 14:34

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 13:46

Hey, did you guys know that Holland's son Brad Holland is one of our scouts now? :)

https://www.nhl.com/oilers/info/media-guide-19-20

page 28. Apparently he's the only guy allowed to wear a suit among our scouts.


Was looking for what our analytics team looked like. I guess it's just a guy, Justin Mahe (page 28 too, and page 4 kinda suggests it's a 1 man team)


Good grief. Does every executive get a few free positions for family members and other nepotism? Is that part of the sales pitch when we're signing these guys up?

I'm pretty shocked Mike Chiarelli has managed to keep his job. I assumed most of these positions disappeared when the more famous relative gets canned.

EDIT: Also, that thing scared me. I saw Howson's photo in there and saw red. Then noticed afterwards that it's a 2019-2020 booklet, so it's before his departure to the AHL. I was worried he'd boomeranged again.

WOW, do you guys need something to talk about. You are scoring a 2 yr old media guy for things to complain about?


Some quick questions for you:

Do you think Brad Holland got his job because he is the best person for that critical role within the organization? Or because his dad is the GM?

What about Mike Chiarelli - best available person for the job?

Do you think in today's day and age, given the massive amount that most of the really good teams are spending on analytics, that a single person is an adequate amount of resources to devote to it for an NHL team?

Until you 2 starting debating about him from a 2 yr old media, I didn't know he was in the organization or knew he even existed. I have no idea if he's good at his job or not. Maybe he's really good, maybe he doesn't nothing more than make photo copies of scouting reports and they gave him a fake title. I don't know anything about him.

Do you know anything about him Adam or are you basing your opinion on his name? I am not saying he's good or bad but I have worked with many a guy who's family member was a boss and just because they have the same last name, doesn't mean they are awful at their job.

Keegan Lowe sucked at hockey and they made him the captain...

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #786941 is a reply to message #786937 ]
Mon, 31 May 2021 15:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
Messages: 6815
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 15:17

Adam wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 14:54

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 14:47

Adam wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 14:34

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 13:46

Hey, did you guys know that Holland's son Brad Holland is one of our scouts now? :)

https://www.nhl.com/oilers/info/media-guide-19-20

page 28. Apparently he's the only guy allowed to wear a suit among our scouts.


Was looking for what our analytics team looked like. I guess it's just a guy, Justin Mahe (page 28 too, and page 4 kinda suggests it's a 1 man team)


Good grief. Does every executive get a few free positions for family members and other nepotism? Is that part of the sales pitch when we're signing these guys up?

I'm pretty shocked Mike Chiarelli has managed to keep his job. I assumed most of these positions disappeared when the more famous relative gets canned.

EDIT: Also, that thing scared me. I saw Howson's photo in there and saw red. Then noticed afterwards that it's a 2019-2020 booklet, so it's before his departure to the AHL. I was worried he'd boomeranged again.

WOW, do you guys need something to talk about. You are scoring a 2 yr old media guy for things to complain about?


Some quick questions for you:

Do you think Brad Holland got his job because he is the best person for that critical role within the organization? Or because his dad is the GM?

What about Mike Chiarelli - best available person for the job?

Do you think in today's day and age, given the massive amount that most of the really good teams are spending on analytics, that a single person is an adequate amount of resources to devote to it for an NHL team?

Until you 2 starting debating about him from a 2 yr old media, I didn't know he was in the organization or knew he even existed. I have no idea if he's good at his job or not. Maybe he's really good, maybe he doesn't nothing more than make photo copies of scouting reports and they gave him a fake title. I don't know anything about him.

Do you know anything about him Adam or are you basing your opinion on his name? I am not saying he's good or bad but I have worked with many a guy who's family member was a boss and just because they have the same last name, doesn't mean they are awful at their job.


You only answered one of my questions, and even then, only partially. Here's another for you:

Do you think it could be at all an organizational issue if there were a lot of positions handed out to the progeny of executives?

How many of the people with the last name Lowe, Nicholson, Chiarelli, Messier, Gretzky, Holland, etc. do you think had to interview for their position and beat out others?

I think there's a little bit of a difference between some guys working for their dad's oilfield services company in Red Deer and a National Hockey League team. For one, Holland doesn't own the team, so its more like having a foreman decide to hire his son as a site supervisor than if the owner's kid is in the organization. Both can be problematic, but one guy is a relatively temporary employee.

I would say pro scouting is a pretty important function within a NHL team. The team isn't a big one - only three people. I'd say it's likely that the role IS pretty important at the end of the day and he isn't just making coffee for people - although either way, the nepotism is problematic. If you have someone who's got a position, gets a salary and you can't trust him to do his job so people have him doing menial tasks instead, that is almost as destructive to moral and corporate culture as having someone who has their job only due to their last name making a mess of things because they are incompetent for the job they've been hired in to.

It's worth noting, the Oilers have made some errors in their pro scouting over the last couple of years. Was it Holland, Messier, the other guy or some combination that was responsible for Kyle Turris? Did they talk to the analytics guy at all before they made that signing?

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #786942 is a reply to message #786941 ]
Mon, 31 May 2021 15:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently online RDOilerfan
Messages: 3699
Registered: January 2016
3 Cups
Adam wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 15:32

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 15:17

Adam wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 14:54

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 14:47

Adam wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 14:34

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 13:46

Hey, did you guys know that Holland's son Brad Holland is one of our scouts now? :)

https://www.nhl.com/oilers/info/media-guide-19-20

page 28. Apparently he's the only guy allowed to wear a suit among our scouts.


Was looking for what our analytics team looked like. I guess it's just a guy, Justin Mahe (page 28 too, and page 4 kinda suggests it's a 1 man team)


Good grief. Does every executive get a few free positions for family members and other nepotism? Is that part of the sales pitch when we're signing these guys up?

I'm pretty shocked Mike Chiarelli has managed to keep his job. I assumed most of these positions disappeared when the more famous relative gets canned.

EDIT: Also, that thing scared me. I saw Howson's photo in there and saw red. Then noticed afterwards that it's a 2019-2020 booklet, so it's before his departure to the AHL. I was worried he'd boomeranged again.

WOW, do you guys need something to talk about. You are scoring a 2 yr old media guy for things to complain about?


Some quick questions for you:

Do you think Brad Holland got his job because he is the best person for that critical role within the organization? Or because his dad is the GM?

What about Mike Chiarelli - best available person for the job?

Do you think in today's day and age, given the massive amount that most of the really good teams are spending on analytics, that a single person is an adequate amount of resources to devote to it for an NHL team?

Until you 2 starting debating about him from a 2 yr old media, I didn't know he was in the organization or knew he even existed. I have no idea if he's good at his job or not. Maybe he's really good, maybe he doesn't nothing more than make photo copies of scouting reports and they gave him a fake title. I don't know anything about him.

Do you know anything about him Adam or are you basing your opinion on his name? I am not saying he's good or bad but I have worked with many a guy who's family member was a boss and just because they have the same last name, doesn't mean they are awful at their job.


You only answered one of my questions, and even then, only partially. Here's another for you:

Do you think it could be at all an organizational issue if there were a lot of positions handed out to the progeny of executives?

How many of the people with the last name Lowe, Nicholson, Chiarelli, Messier, Gretzky, Holland, etc. do you think had to interview for their position and beat out others?

I think there's a little bit of a difference between some guys working for their dad's oilfield services company in Red Deer and a National Hockey League team. For one, Holland doesn't own the team, so its more like having a foreman decide to hire his son as a site supervisor than if the owner's kid is in the organization. Both can be problematic, but one guy is a relatively temporary employee.

I would say pro scouting is a pretty important function within a NHL team. The team isn't a big one - only three people. I'd say it's likely that the role IS pretty important at the end of the day and he isn't just making coffee for people - although either way, the nepotism is problematic. If you have someone who's got a position, gets a salary and you can't trust him to do his job so people have him doing menial tasks instead, that is almost as destructive to moral and corporate culture as having someone who has their job only due to their last name making a mess of things because they are incompetent for the job they've been hired in to.

It's worth noting, the Oilers have made some errors in their pro scouting over the last couple of years. Was it Holland, Messier, the other guy or some combination that was responsible for Kyle Turris? Did they talk to the analytics guy at all before they made that signing?

I am just going to drop it. I don't know the guy, I have no clue if he is good or not. If you asked me who all works in the Oilers scouting department, I couldn't tell you. I regret even saying anything. I don't even know why I said anything because I really don't care.

You win Adam.

[Updated on: Mon, 31 May 2021 15:46]

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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #786943 is a reply to message #786942 ]
Mon, 31 May 2021 16:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
Messages: 6815
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 15:42

Adam wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 15:32

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 15:17

Adam wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 14:54

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 14:47

Adam wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 14:34

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 13:46

Hey, did you guys know that Holland's son Brad Holland is one of our scouts now? :)

https://www.nhl.com/oilers/info/media-guide-19-20

page 28. Apparently he's the only guy allowed to wear a suit among our scouts.


Was looking for what our analytics team looked like. I guess it's just a guy, Justin Mahe (page 28 too, and page 4 kinda suggests it's a 1 man team)


Good grief. Does every executive get a few free positions for family members and other nepotism? Is that part of the sales pitch when we're signing these guys up?

I'm pretty shocked Mike Chiarelli has managed to keep his job. I assumed most of these positions disappeared when the more famous relative gets canned.

EDIT: Also, that thing scared me. I saw Howson's photo in there and saw red. Then noticed afterwards that it's a 2019-2020 booklet, so it's before his departure to the AHL. I was worried he'd boomeranged again.

WOW, do you guys need something to talk about. You are scoring a 2 yr old media guy for things to complain about?


Some quick questions for you:

Do you think Brad Holland got his job because he is the best person for that critical role within the organization? Or because his dad is the GM?

What about Mike Chiarelli - best available person for the job?

Do you think in today's day and age, given the massive amount that most of the really good teams are spending on analytics, that a single person is an adequate amount of resources to devote to it for an NHL team?

Until you 2 starting debating about him from a 2 yr old media, I didn't know he was in the organization or knew he even existed. I have no idea if he's good at his job or not. Maybe he's really good, maybe he doesn't nothing more than make photo copies of scouting reports and they gave him a fake title. I don't know anything about him.

Do you know anything about him Adam or are you basing your opinion on his name? I am not saying he's good or bad but I have worked with many a guy who's family member was a boss and just because they have the same last name, doesn't mean they are awful at their job.


You only answered one of my questions, and even then, only partially. Here's another for you:

Do you think it could be at all an organizational issue if there were a lot of positions handed out to the progeny of executives?

How many of the people with the last name Lowe, Nicholson, Chiarelli, Messier, Gretzky, Holland, etc. do you think had to interview for their position and beat out others?

I think there's a little bit of a difference between some guys working for their dad's oilfield services company in Red Deer and a National Hockey League team. For one, Holland doesn't own the team, so its more like having a foreman decide to hire his son as a site supervisor than if the owner's kid is in the organization. Both can be problematic, but one guy is a relatively temporary employee.

I would say pro scouting is a pretty important function within a NHL team. The team isn't a big one - only three people. I'd say it's likely that the role IS pretty important at the end of the day and he isn't just making coffee for people - although either way, the nepotism is problematic. If you have someone who's got a position, gets a salary and you can't trust him to do his job so people have him doing menial tasks instead, that is almost as destructive to moral and corporate culture as having someone who has their job only due to their last name making a mess of things because they are incompetent for the job they've been hired in to.

It's worth noting, the Oilers have made some errors in their pro scouting over the last couple of years. Was it Holland, Messier, the other guy or some combination that was responsible for Kyle Turris? Did they talk to the analytics guy at all before they made that signing?

I am just going to drop it. I don't know the guy, I have no clue if he is good or not. If you asked me who all works in the Oilers scouting department, I couldn't tell you. I regret even saying anything. I don't even know why I said anything because I really don't care.

You win Adam.


I'm not really arguing with you here - just asking you your opinion on these questions. Do you think it's a problem if everyone in management hires their kids and friends to important positions within the organization?

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #786946 is a reply to message #786943 ]
Mon, 31 May 2021 16:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently online RDOilerfan
Messages: 3699
Registered: January 2016
3 Cups
Adam wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 16:07

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 15:42

Adam wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 15:32

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 15:17

Adam wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 14:54

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 14:47

Adam wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 14:34

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 13:46

Hey, did you guys know that Holland's son Brad Holland is one of our scouts now? :)

https://www.nhl.com/oilers/info/media-guide-19-20

page 28. Apparently he's the only guy allowed to wear a suit among our scouts.


Was looking for what our analytics team looked like. I guess it's just a guy, Justin Mahe (page 28 too, and page 4 kinda suggests it's a 1 man team)


Good grief. Does every executive get a few free positions for family members and other nepotism? Is that part of the sales pitch when we're signing these guys up?

I'm pretty shocked Mike Chiarelli has managed to keep his job. I assumed most of these positions disappeared when the more famous relative gets canned.

EDIT: Also, that thing scared me. I saw Howson's photo in there and saw red. Then noticed afterwards that it's a 2019-2020 booklet, so it's before his departure to the AHL. I was worried he'd boomeranged again.

WOW, do you guys need something to talk about. You are scoring a 2 yr old media guy for things to complain about?


Some quick questions for you:

Do you think Brad Holland got his job because he is the best person for that critical role within the organization? Or because his dad is the GM?

What about Mike Chiarelli - best available person for the job?

Do you think in today's day and age, given the massive amount that most of the really good teams are spending on analytics, that a single person is an adequate amount of resources to devote to it for an NHL team?

Until you 2 starting debating about him from a 2 yr old media, I didn't know he was in the organization or knew he even existed. I have no idea if he's good at his job or not. Maybe he's really good, maybe he doesn't nothing more than make photo copies of scouting reports and they gave him a fake title. I don't know anything about him.

Do you know anything about him Adam or are you basing your opinion on his name? I am not saying he's good or bad but I have worked with many a guy who's family member was a boss and just because they have the same last name, doesn't mean they are awful at their job.


You only answered one of my questions, and even then, only partially. Here's another for you:

Do you think it could be at all an organizational issue if there were a lot of positions handed out to the progeny of executives?

How many of the people with the last name Lowe, Nicholson, Chiarelli, Messier, Gretzky, Holland, etc. do you think had to interview for their position and beat out others?

I think there's a little bit of a difference between some guys working for their dad's oilfield services company in Red Deer and a National Hockey League team. For one, Holland doesn't own the team, so its more like having a foreman decide to hire his son as a site supervisor than if the owner's kid is in the organization. Both can be problematic, but one guy is a relatively temporary employee.

I would say pro scouting is a pretty important function within a NHL team. The team isn't a big one - only three people. I'd say it's likely that the role IS pretty important at the end of the day and he isn't just making coffee for people - although either way, the nepotism is problematic. If you have someone who's got a position, gets a salary and you can't trust him to do his job so people have him doing menial tasks instead, that is almost as destructive to moral and corporate culture as having someone who has their job only due to their last name making a mess of things because they are incompetent for the job they've been hired in to.

It's worth noting, the Oilers have made some errors in their pro scouting over the last couple of years. Was it Holland, Messier, the other guy or some combination that was responsible for Kyle Turris? Did they talk to the analytics guy at all before they made that signing?

I am just going to drop it. I don't know the guy, I have no clue if he is good or not. If you asked me who all works in the Oilers scouting department, I couldn't tell you. I regret even saying anything. I don't even know why I said anything because I really don't care.

You win Adam.


I'm not really arguing with you here - just asking you your opinion on these questions. Do you think it's a problem if everyone in management hires their kids and friends to important positions within the organization?

Completely depends on their qualifications. I am not in the pro hockey industry but in my industry, I have worked with people who were family with the boss. Lots of them were good at their job, some were not. I have no clue what his involvement in the players they bring in is. For all I know, he could have been the one guy that said Turris was a bust but they ignored him.

Maybe they give each pro scout 1 player who they are allowed to decide on all by himself. Maybe that guy was Turris or maybe his guy was Smith or Barrie who were pretty darn good signing for the money they made. Do you know how the organization makes decisions on who to go after? I don't.

So again, I didn't know the guy existed until today nor do I have a clue if he is good at his job. I know it bothers you what their last name is, it doesn't me because I do not discriminate against who a person is, all I care about is if they are good at your job or not. I have no idea if he is or not.

[Updated on: Mon, 31 May 2021 16:29]

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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #786951 is a reply to message #786946 ]
Mon, 31 May 2021 17:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
Messages: 6815
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 16:26

Adam wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 16:07

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 15:42

Adam wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 15:32

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 15:17

Adam wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 14:54

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 14:47

Adam wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 14:34

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 13:46

Hey, did you guys know that Holland's son Brad Holland is one of our scouts now? :)

https://www.nhl.com/oilers/info/media-guide-19-20

page 28. Apparently he's the only guy allowed to wear a suit among our scouts.


Was looking for what our analytics team looked like. I guess it's just a guy, Justin Mahe (page 28 too, and page 4 kinda suggests it's a 1 man team)


Good grief. Does every executive get a few free positions for family members and other nepotism? Is that part of the sales pitch when we're signing these guys up?

I'm pretty shocked Mike Chiarelli has managed to keep his job. I assumed most of these positions disappeared when the more famous relative gets canned.

EDIT: Also, that thing scared me. I saw Howson's photo in there and saw red. Then noticed afterwards that it's a 2019-2020 booklet, so it's before his departure to the AHL. I was worried he'd boomeranged again.

WOW, do you guys need something to talk about. You are scoring a 2 yr old media guy for things to complain about?


Some quick questions for you:

Do you think Brad Holland got his job because he is the best person for that critical role within the organization? Or because his dad is the GM?

What about Mike Chiarelli - best available person for the job?

Do you think in today's day and age, given the massive amount that most of the really good teams are spending on analytics, that a single person is an adequate amount of resources to devote to it for an NHL team?

Until you 2 starting debating about him from a 2 yr old media, I didn't know he was in the organization or knew he even existed. I have no idea if he's good at his job or not. Maybe he's really good, maybe he doesn't nothing more than make photo copies of scouting reports and they gave him a fake title. I don't know anything about him.

Do you know anything about him Adam or are you basing your opinion on his name? I am not saying he's good or bad but I have worked with many a guy who's family member was a boss and just because they have the same last name, doesn't mean they are awful at their job.


You only answered one of my questions, and even then, only partially. Here's another for you:

Do you think it could be at all an organizational issue if there were a lot of positions handed out to the progeny of executives?

How many of the people with the last name Lowe, Nicholson, Chiarelli, Messier, Gretzky, Holland, etc. do you think had to interview for their position and beat out others?

I think there's a little bit of a difference between some guys working for their dad's oilfield services company in Red Deer and a National Hockey League team. For one, Holland doesn't own the team, so its more like having a foreman decide to hire his son as a site supervisor than if the owner's kid is in the organization. Both can be problematic, but one guy is a relatively temporary employee.

I would say pro scouting is a pretty important function within a NHL team. The team isn't a big one - only three people. I'd say it's likely that the role IS pretty important at the end of the day and he isn't just making coffee for people - although either way, the nepotism is problematic. If you have someone who's got a position, gets a salary and you can't trust him to do his job so people have him doing menial tasks instead, that is almost as destructive to moral and corporate culture as having someone who has their job only due to their last name making a mess of things because they are incompetent for the job they've been hired in to.

It's worth noting, the Oilers have made some errors in their pro scouting over the last couple of years. Was it Holland, Messier, the other guy or some combination that was responsible for Kyle Turris? Did they talk to the analytics guy at all before they made that signing?

I am just going to drop it. I don't know the guy, I have no clue if he is good or not. If you asked me who all works in the Oilers scouting department, I couldn't tell you. I regret even saying anything. I don't even know why I said anything because I really don't care.

You win Adam.


I'm not really arguing with you here - just asking you your opinion on these questions. Do you think it's a problem if everyone in management hires their kids and friends to important positions within the organization?

Completely depends on their qualifications. I am not in the pro hockey industry but in my industry, I have worked with people who were family with the boss. Lots of them were good at their job, some were not. I have no clue what his involvement in the players they bring in is. For all I know, he could have been the one guy that said Turris was a bust but they ignored him.

Maybe they give each pro scout 1 player who they are allowed to decide on all by himself. Maybe that guy was Turris or maybe his guy was Smith or Barrie who were pretty darn good signing for the money they made. Do you know how the organization makes decisions on who to go after? I don't.

So again, I didn't know the guy existed until today nor do I have a clue if he is good at his job. I know it bothers you what their last name is, it doesn't me because I do not discriminate against who a person is, all I care about is if they are good at your job or not. I have no idea if he is or not.




Would you think it was an issue if everyone in upper management brought at least one relative, and some more than one relative to the organization? Or just a coincidence and the best people might really all be related to them?

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #786998 is a reply to message #786951 ]
Tue, 01 June 2021 08:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently online RDOilerfan
Messages: 3699
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Adam wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 17:13

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 16:26

Adam wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 16:07

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 15:42

Adam wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 15:32

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 15:17

Adam wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 14:54

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 14:47

Adam wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 14:34

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 13:46

Hey, did you guys know that Holland's son Brad Holland is one of our scouts now? :)

https://www.nhl.com/oilers/info/media-guide-19-20

page 28. Apparently he's the only guy allowed to wear a suit among our scouts.


Was looking for what our analytics team looked like. I guess it's just a guy, Justin Mahe (page 28 too, and page 4 kinda suggests it's a 1 man team)


Good grief. Does every executive get a few free positions for family members and other nepotism? Is that part of the sales pitch when we're signing these guys up?

I'm pretty shocked Mike Chiarelli has managed to keep his job. I assumed most of these positions disappeared when the more famous relative gets canned.

EDIT: Also, that thing scared me. I saw Howson's photo in there and saw red. Then noticed afterwards that it's a 2019-2020 booklet, so it's before his departure to the AHL. I was worried he'd boomeranged again.

WOW, do you guys need something to talk about. You are scoring a 2 yr old media guy for things to complain about?


Some quick questions for you:

Do you think Brad Holland got his job because he is the best person for that critical role within the organization? Or because his dad is the GM?

What about Mike Chiarelli - best available person for the job?

Do you think in today's day and age, given the massive amount that most of the really good teams are spending on analytics, that a single person is an adequate amount of resources to devote to it for an NHL team?

Until you 2 starting debating about him from a 2 yr old media, I didn't know he was in the organization or knew he even existed. I have no idea if he's good at his job or not. Maybe he's really good, maybe he doesn't nothing more than make photo copies of scouting reports and they gave him a fake title. I don't know anything about him.

Do you know anything about him Adam or are you basing your opinion on his name? I am not saying he's good or bad but I have worked with many a guy who's family member was a boss and just because they have the same last name, doesn't mean they are awful at their job.


You only answered one of my questions, and even then, only partially. Here's another for you:

Do you think it could be at all an organizational issue if there were a lot of positions handed out to the progeny of executives?

How many of the people with the last name Lowe, Nicholson, Chiarelli, Messier, Gretzky, Holland, etc. do you think had to interview for their position and beat out others?

I think there's a little bit of a difference between some guys working for their dad's oilfield services company in Red Deer and a National Hockey League team. For one, Holland doesn't own the team, so its more like having a foreman decide to hire his son as a site supervisor than if the owner's kid is in the organization. Both can be problematic, but one guy is a relatively temporary employee.

I would say pro scouting is a pretty important function within a NHL team. The team isn't a big one - only three people. I'd say it's likely that the role IS pretty important at the end of the day and he isn't just making coffee for people - although either way, the nepotism is problematic. If you have someone who's got a position, gets a salary and you can't trust him to do his job so people have him doing menial tasks instead, that is almost as destructive to moral and corporate culture as having someone who has their job only due to their last name making a mess of things because they are incompetent for the job they've been hired in to.

It's worth noting, the Oilers have made some errors in their pro scouting over the last couple of years. Was it Holland, Messier, the other guy or some combination that was responsible for Kyle Turris? Did they talk to the analytics guy at all before they made that signing?

I am just going to drop it. I don't know the guy, I have no clue if he is good or not. If you asked me who all works in the Oilers scouting department, I couldn't tell you. I regret even saying anything. I don't even know why I said anything because I really don't care.

You win Adam.


I'm not really arguing with you here - just asking you your opinion on these questions. Do you think it's a problem if everyone in management hires their kids and friends to important positions within the organization?

Completely depends on their qualifications. I am not in the pro hockey industry but in my industry, I have worked with people who were family with the boss. Lots of them were good at their job, some were not. I have no clue what his involvement in the players they bring in is. For all I know, he could have been the one guy that said Turris was a bust but they ignored him.

Maybe they give each pro scout 1 player who they are allowed to decide on all by himself. Maybe that guy was Turris or maybe his guy was Smith or Barrie who were pretty darn good signing for the money they made. Do you know how the organization makes decisions on who to go after? I don't.

So again, I didn't know the guy existed until today nor do I have a clue if he is good at his job. I know it bothers you what their last name is, it doesn't me because I do not discriminate against who a person is, all I care about is if they are good at your job or not. I have no idea if he is or not.




Would you think it was an issue if everyone in upper management brought at least one relative, and some more than one relative to the organization? Or just a coincidence and the best people might really all be related to them?

How many freaking times do I have to answer the same f-ing question? Like seriously, what's your deal?
This is the absolute last time I will address what I feel is a stupid topic. This might be the stupidest topic yet that I have made the mistake to address.

WHAT ARE HIS/HER QUALIFICATIONS!!!

If the person has zero qualifications and only have a job because of his/her last name, then of course it's ridiculous to hire them. But if they are good at their job, then I don't give a damn what their name is. I honestly do not care 1 damn bit what a persons name is in ANY industry, all I care about is are you good at your job or not. That's it. That in my mind is the only thing that matters. I don't care if they are man or woman, what race, religion, creed, where they went to school, what your previous job was, how old you are, who you are related too or what your freaking last name is. Are you qualified to do the job and can do it well or not? That's all that matters. In my opinion, if a person has a problem with someone who is completely qualified and good at their job and their only reason is solely because of their name or who they are related too, then in my opinion, that person who has a problem is a small minded, discriminatory person looking for anything they can find to go against that person.

[Updated on: Tue, 01 June 2021 08:48]

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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #787012 is a reply to message #786998 ]
Tue, 01 June 2021 10:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76 is currently offline inverno76
Messages: 2117
Registered: September 2005
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 01 June 2021 08:36

Adam wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 17:13

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 16:26

Adam wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 16:07

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 15:42

Adam wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 15:32

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 15:17

Adam wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 14:54

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 14:47

Adam wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 14:34

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 13:46

Hey, did you guys know that Holland's son Brad Holland is one of our scouts now? :)

https://www.nhl.com/oilers/info/media-guide-19-20

page 28. Apparently he's the only guy allowed to wear a suit among our scouts.


Was looking for what our analytics team looked like. I guess it's just a guy, Justin Mahe (page 28 too, and page 4 kinda suggests it's a 1 man team)


Good grief. Does every executive get a few free positions for family members and other nepotism? Is that part of the sales pitch when we're signing these guys up?

I'm pretty shocked Mike Chiarelli has managed to keep his job. I assumed most of these positions disappeared when the more famous relative gets canned.

EDIT: Also, that thing scared me. I saw Howson's photo in there and saw red. Then noticed afterwards that it's a 2019-2020 booklet, so it's before his departure to the AHL. I was worried he'd boomeranged again.

WOW, do you guys need something to talk about. You are scoring a 2 yr old media guy for things to complain about?


Some quick questions for you:

Do you think Brad Holland got his job because he is the best person for that critical role within the organization? Or because his dad is the GM?

What about Mike Chiarelli - best available person for the job?

Do you think in today's day and age, given the massive amount that most of the really good teams are spending on analytics, that a single person is an adequate amount of resources to devote to it for an NHL team?

Until you 2 starting debating about him from a 2 yr old media, I didn't know he was in the organization or knew he even existed. I have no idea if he's good at his job or not. Maybe he's really good, maybe he doesn't nothing more than make photo copies of scouting reports and they gave him a fake title. I don't know anything about him.

Do you know anything about him Adam or are you basing your opinion on his name? I am not saying he's good or bad but I have worked with many a guy who's family member was a boss and just because they have the same last name, doesn't mean they are awful at their job.


You only answered one of my questions, and even then, only partially. Here's another for you:

Do you think it could be at all an organizational issue if there were a lot of positions handed out to the progeny of executives?

How many of the people with the last name Lowe, Nicholson, Chiarelli, Messier, Gretzky, Holland, etc. do you think had to interview for their position and beat out others?

I think there's a little bit of a difference between some guys working for their dad's oilfield services company in Red Deer and a National Hockey League team. For one, Holland doesn't own the team, so its more like having a foreman decide to hire his son as a site supervisor than if the owner's kid is in the organization. Both can be problematic, but one guy is a relatively temporary employee.

I would say pro scouting is a pretty important function within a NHL team. The team isn't a big one - only three people. I'd say it's likely that the role IS pretty important at the end of the day and he isn't just making coffee for people - although either way, the nepotism is problematic. If you have someone who's got a position, gets a salary and you can't trust him to do his job so people have him doing menial tasks instead, that is almost as destructive to moral and corporate culture as having someone who has their job only due to their last name making a mess of things because they are incompetent for the job they've been hired in to.

It's worth noting, the Oilers have made some errors in their pro scouting over the last couple of years. Was it Holland, Messier, the other guy or some combination that was responsible for Kyle Turris? Did they talk to the analytics guy at all before they made that signing?

I am just going to drop it. I don't know the guy, I have no clue if he is good or not. If you asked me who all works in the Oilers scouting department, I couldn't tell you. I regret even saying anything. I don't even know why I said anything because I really don't care.

You win Adam.


I'm not really arguing with you here - just asking you your opinion on these questions. Do you think it's a problem if everyone in management hires their kids and friends to important positions within the organization?

Completely depends on their qualifications. I am not in the pro hockey industry but in my industry, I have worked with people who were family with the boss. Lots of them were good at their job, some were not. I have no clue what his involvement in the players they bring in is. For all I know, he could have been the one guy that said Turris was a bust but they ignored him.

Maybe they give each pro scout 1 player who they are allowed to decide on all by himself. Maybe that guy was Turris or maybe his guy was Smith or Barrie who were pretty darn good signing for the money they made. Do you know how the organization makes decisions on who to go after? I don't.

So again, I didn't know the guy existed until today nor do I have a clue if he is good at his job. I know it bothers you what their last name is, it doesn't me because I do not discriminate against who a person is, all I care about is if they are good at your job or not. I have no idea if he is or not.




Would you think it was an issue if everyone in upper management brought at least one relative, and some more than one relative to the organization? Or just a coincidence and the best people might really all be related to them?

How many freaking times do I have to answer the same f-ing question? Like seriously, what's your deal?
This is the absolute last time I will address what I feel is a stupid topic. This might be the stupidest topic yet that I have made the mistake to address.

WHAT ARE HIS/HER QUALIFICATIONS!!!

If the person has zero qualifications and only have a job because of his/her last name, then of course it's ridiculous to hire them. But if they are good at their job, then I don't give a damn what their name is. I honestly do not care 1 damn bit what a persons name is in ANY industry, all I care about is are you good at your job or not. That's it. That in my mind is the only thing that matters. I don't care if they are man or woman, what race, religion, creed, where they went to school, what your previous job was, how old you are, who you are related too or what your freaking last name is. Are you qualified to do the job and can do it well or not? That's all that matters. In my opinion, if a person has a problem with someone who is completely qualified and good at their job and their only reason is solely because of their name or who they are related too, then in my opinion, that person who has a problem is a small minded, discriminatory person looking for anything they can find to go against that person.



Culture starts at the top. Sounds like you work for a company that may be different, but what I believe Adam is saying may be relevant. By hiring people you know, although good, they are not necessarily going to be the best. There are 32 NHL teams and you should be hiring the absolute best available people for the job and when an organization looks more like a family tree, then alarm bells go off. Could they be the best candidates? Maybe, but improbable that Chiarelli, Messier, Gretzky, Holland, etc are the best people for the job, but the most likely to fall in line with the current standard. Like I was saying in a different post, I come from an industry that in cancerous and full of backdoor hires. The Culture is crap and thankfully I will retire soon. The change needs to come from the top in order to fix the problem. The Oilers mirror my workplace.

Oilers' culture has been horrible for far too long. A systematic change needs to happen and I think it has gotten better, but far from cancer-free. Adding an advanced analytics team, by poaching people from other teams and doing an exhaustive employee search will go far in challenging the OBC and the eye test.

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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #786955 is a reply to message #786946 ]
Mon, 31 May 2021 17:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose is currently offline Goose
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 15:26


Completely depends on their qualifications. I am not in the pro hockey industry but in my industry, I have worked with people who were family with the boss. Lots of them were good at their job, some were not. I have no clue what his involvement in the players they bring in is. For all I know, he could have been the one guy that said Turris was a bust but they ignored him.

Maybe they give each pro scout 1 player who they are allowed to decide on all by himself. Maybe that guy was Turris or maybe his guy was Smith or Barrie who were pretty darn good signing for the money they made. Do you know how the organization makes decisions on who to go after? I don't.

So again, I didn't know the guy existed until today nor do I have a clue if he is good at his job. I know it bothers you what their last name is, it doesn't me because I do not discriminate against who a person is, all I care about is if they are good at your job or not. I have no idea if he is or not.




The issue for me isn't this one person, but we know that the results for the Oilers haven't been good. So the fact that nepotism seems to be common throughout the organization isn't really a good look. Of course it's possible that all of the brothers and kids of past and current Oilers are doing a great job, and it's all the other hires that are bringing the organization down, but does anyone really think that?

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #786981 is a reply to message #786955 ]
Mon, 31 May 2021 21:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76 is currently offline inverno76
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Nepotism does not work in my industry. It’s created a terrible culture where the best candidates no longer aspire for management roles. It’s reasonable to believe that’s why we don’t get great candidates knocking on the Oilers door when their is an opportunity.

Analytics needs to be part of the consideration when looking at incoming players. The team may still prefer the eye test, but information is power. I highly doubt Katz is going to say no to increasing that department when he freely spends money to keep the dream team around as collectibles.

When was the last time our pro scouts nailed a trade, Pronger? Maybe the whole 2006 deadline? Perron? I remember countless misses and then doubling and tripling down on even worse players. The Eberle tree. Reinhart trade.....I can’t go on. Ugh.

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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #786989 is a reply to message #786981 ]
Mon, 31 May 2021 23:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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inverno76 wrote on Mon, 31 May 2021 21:48

Nepotism does not work in my industry. It’s created a terrible culture where the best candidates no longer aspire for management roles. It’s reasonable to believe that’s why we don’t get great candidates knocking on the Oilers door when their is an opportunity.

Analytics needs to be part of the consideration when looking at incoming players. The team may still prefer the eye test, but information is power. I highly doubt Katz is going to say no to increasing that department when he freely spends money to keep the dream team around as collectibles.

When was the last time our pro scouts nailed a trade, Pronger? Maybe the whole 2006 deadline? Perron? I remember countless misses and then doubling and tripling down on even worse players. The Eberle tree. Reinhart trade.....I can’t go on. Ugh.


If only someone's son had been an analytics whiz!

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #787050 is a reply to message #786537 ]
Wed, 02 June 2021 08:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Pierre thinks our team was built using analytics for some reason lol


NHL Watcher @NHL_Watcher
McGuire on TSN690: "The two teams that have been built through analytics and they are both on the outside looking in: the Toronto Maple Leafs and Edmonton Oilers."

He's really losing his touch.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #787051 is a reply to message #787050 ]
Wed, 02 June 2021 08:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 02 June 2021 08:30

Pierre thinks our team was built using analytics for some reason lol


NHL Watcher @NHL_Watcher
McGuire on TSN690: "The two teams that have been built through analytics and they are both on the outside looking in: the Toronto Maple Leafs and Edmonton Oilers."

He's really losing his touch.

The Oilers might think they're using cutting edge analytics as a decision making tool. Who knows? Hell, maybe if you change the definition of the word just a little bit they are.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #787079 is a reply to message #787051 ]
Wed, 02 June 2021 17:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 02 June 2021 08:55

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 02 June 2021 08:30

Pierre thinks our team was built using analytics for some reason lol


NHL Watcher @NHL_Watcher
McGuire on TSN690: "The two teams that have been built through analytics and they are both on the outside looking in: the Toronto Maple Leafs and Edmonton Oilers."

He's really losing his touch.

The Oilers might think they're using cutting edge analytics as a decision making tool. Who knows? Hell, maybe if you change the definition of the word just a little bit they are.


Maybe they still use that company who said Kris Russell is a top 30 NHL defenceman at transitions or whatever Chia said they found in addition to the lonely dude creating spreadsheets in Kevin Lowe's basement.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #787080 is a reply to message #787079 ]
Wed, 02 June 2021 18:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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Adam wrote on Wed, 02 June 2021 17:54

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 02 June 2021 08:55

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 02 June 2021 08:30

Pierre thinks our team was built using analytics for some reason lol


NHL Watcher @NHL_Watcher
McGuire on TSN690: "The two teams that have been built through analytics and they are both on the outside looking in: the Toronto Maple Leafs and Edmonton Oilers."

He's really losing his touch.

The Oilers might think they're using cutting edge analytics as a decision making tool. Who knows? Hell, maybe if you change the definition of the word just a little bit they are.


Maybe they still use that company who said Kris Russell is a top 30 NHL defenceman at transitions or whatever Chia said they found in addition to the lonely dude creating spreadsheets in Kevin Lowe's basement.


Erik Karlsson in his prime #1
Kris Russell #2


How someone could manage that for any statistic relating to creating offense is a mystery that unfortunately may never be solved.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #787082 is a reply to message #787080 ]
Wed, 02 June 2021 18:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 02 June 2021 18:00

Adam wrote on Wed, 02 June 2021 17:54

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 02 June 2021 08:55

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 02 June 2021 08:30

Pierre thinks our team was built using analytics for some reason lol


NHL Watcher @NHL_Watcher
McGuire on TSN690: "The two teams that have been built through analytics and they are both on the outside looking in: the Toronto Maple Leafs and Edmonton Oilers."

He's really losing his touch.

The Oilers might think they're using cutting edge analytics as a decision making tool. Who knows? Hell, maybe if you change the definition of the word just a little bit they are.


Maybe they still use that company who said Kris Russell is a top 30 NHL defenceman at transitions or whatever Chia said they found in addition to the lonely dude creating spreadsheets in Kevin Lowe's basement.


Erik Karlsson in his prime #1
Kris Russell #2


How someone could manage that for any statistic relating to creating offense is a mystery that unfortunately may never be solved.


Super secret. They hired the OTHER smartest guys in the room to help.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #787084 is a reply to message #787079 ]
Wed, 02 June 2021 20:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne is currently offline PlusOne
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Adam wrote on Wed, 02 June 2021 17:54

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 02 June 2021 08:55

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 02 June 2021 08:30

Pierre thinks our team was built using analytics for some reason lol


NHL Watcher @NHL_Watcher
McGuire on TSN690: "The two teams that have been built through analytics and they are both on the outside looking in: the Toronto Maple Leafs and Edmonton Oilers."

He's really losing his touch.

The Oilers might think they're using cutting edge analytics as a decision making tool. Who knows? Hell, maybe if you change the definition of the word just a little bit they are.


Maybe they still use that company who said Kris Russell is a top 30 NHL defenceman at transitions or whatever Chia said they found in addition to the lonely dude creating spreadsheets in Kevin Lowe's basement.


I think a lot of media folks outside of the Edmonton locals assume they have a deep analytics department.
The team has made statements directly claiming, "Norris potential" or "untapped/unseen offensive potential" or doing "a lot of great things that dont show up on the score sheet" as BS to mask players who aren't performing up to expectations.
Those statements imply some sort of data collection and analysis.
Sometimes those expectations are created by outside hype (Schultz), trade cost (Larsson) or price tag of a contract (too many to list).
Where the hype comes from is irrelevant though, when the team starts seeing moves look bad they make statements like the above as if they had some top secret statistical data being analyzed in an innovative way to influence said moves.

There is a reason you don't see these types of statements when one pans out (Draisaitl, both in his draft spot and contract).

The team doesn't appear to believe in or use, advance analytics or scouting tools. If they did they would talk about them in other situations than to cover up bad decisions.

Survivor LX(I) and 67 Champ(i)on


CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

und(i)sputed O.L.F.N Heavybra(i)n Champ(i)on of the Woooooooooooooooooorld. Plus. One.

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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #787094 is a reply to message #787084 ]
Wed, 02 June 2021 21:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76 is currently offline inverno76
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PlusOne wrote on Wed, 02 June 2021 20:10

Adam wrote on Wed, 02 June 2021 17:54

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 02 June 2021 08:55

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 02 June 2021 08:30

Pierre thinks our team was built using analytics for some reason lol


NHL Watcher @NHL_Watcher
McGuire on TSN690: "The two teams that have been built through analytics and they are both on the outside looking in: the Toronto Maple Leafs and Edmonton Oilers."

He's really losing his touch.

The Oilers might think they're using cutting edge analytics as a decision making tool. Who knows? Hell, maybe if you change the definition of the word just a little bit they are.


Maybe they still use that company who said Kris Russell is a top 30 NHL defenceman at transitions or whatever Chia said they found in addition to the lonely dude creating spreadsheets in Kevin Lowe's basement.


I think a lot of media folks outside of the Edmonton locals assume they have a deep analytics department.
The team has made statements directly claiming, "Norris potential" or "untapped/unseen offensive potential" or doing "a lot of great things that dont show up on the score sheet" as BS to mask players who aren't performing up to expectations.
Those statements imply some sort of data collection and analysis.
Sometimes those expectations are created by outside hype (Schultz), trade cost (Larsson) or price tag of a contract (too many to list).
Where the hype comes from is irrelevant though, when the team starts seeing moves look bad they make statements like the above as if they had some top secret statistical data being analyzed in an innovative way to influence said moves.

There is a reason you don't see these types of statements when one pans out (Draisaitl, both in his draft spot and contract).

The team doesn't appear to believe in or use, advance analytics or scouting tools. If they did they would talk about them in other situations than to cover up bad decisions.


“We are visually better than our record”. Nothing has changed since MacT left. Analytics Schmanalytics. All about the eye test.

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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #787097 is a reply to message #787094 ]
Wed, 02 June 2021 21:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76 is currently offline inverno76
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https://twitter.com/joepompliano/status/1400245761854652417? s=21

My phone was eavesdropping on our conversation.

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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #787100 is a reply to message #787097 ]
Wed, 02 June 2021 21:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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inverno76 wrote on Wed, 02 June 2021 21:38

https://twitter.com/joepompliano/status/1400245761854652417? s=21

My phone was eavesdropping on our conversation.

Would never work in a sport like hockey where grit and intensity are such important factors.

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #787101 is a reply to message #787100 ]
Wed, 02 June 2021 21:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76 is currently offline inverno76
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Wed, 02 June 2021 21:45

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 02 June 2021 21:38

https://twitter.com/joepompliano/status/1400245761854652417? s=21

My phone was eavesdropping on our conversation.

Would never work in a sport like hockey where grit and intensity are such important factors.


Truculence will get you where you need to go every time.

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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #787957 is a reply to message #787050 ]
Thu, 17 June 2021 21:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rutuu is currently offline Rutuu
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Yikes. I wish it was analytics, but we're definitely closer to the guy that won the lottery and is giving financial advice, than knocking at the door by working the details to find value. The do nothing case for the our roster is pretty strong if we eliminated trades and just picked off the Hockey News ratings.

RNH #1 pick
McDavid #1 pick
Draisatl #3 pick...thank you Florida (Ekblad) and Buffalo (Rheinhart)

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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #787959 is a reply to message #787957 ]
Thu, 17 June 2021 22:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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Rutuu wrote on Thu, 17 June 2021 21:34

Yikes. I wish it was analytics, but we're definitely closer to the guy that won the lottery and is giving financial advice, than knocking at the door by working the details to find value. The do nothing case for the our roster is pretty strong if we eliminated trades and just picked off the Hockey News ratings.

RNH #1 pick
McDavid #1 pick
Draisatl #3 pick...thank you Florida (Ekblad) and Buffalo (Rheinhart)






No credit for the Nurse pick? MacT worked hard to calculate the "Grandpas Met in Bathrooms"/60 mins stat to make that pick.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #787962 is a reply to message #787959 ]
Thu, 17 June 2021 22:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
benv is currently offline benv
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Kr55 wrote on Thu, 17 June 2021 22:12



No credit for the Nurse pick? MacT worked hard to calculate the "Grandpas Met in Bathrooms"/60 mins stat to make that pick.


Ok, I'm going to need an explanation on this.

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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #787963 is a reply to message #787962 ]
Thu, 17 June 2021 23:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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benv wrote on Thu, 17 June 2021 22:51

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 17 June 2021 22:12



No credit for the Nurse pick? MacT worked hard to calculate the "Grandpas Met in Bathrooms"/60 mins stat to make that pick.


Ok, I'm going to need an explanation on this.


Running joke about MacT picking Nurse because of how he ran into his grandpa while taking a bathroom break :)

Jump to 11:30



Think in other interviews later Mr. Yappy yapper elaborated more about the bathroom encounter.

[Updated on: Thu, 17 June 2021 23:05]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #788101 is a reply to message #787959 ]
Mon, 21 June 2021 18:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rutuu is currently offline Rutuu
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I am glad we side stepped Nichushkin (thanks Nurse's grandpa), the hockey news that year had:
1. Seth Jones
2. Nathan MacKinnon
3. Jonathan Drouin
4. Valery Nichushkin
5. Sasha Barkov
6. Sean Monahan
7. Elias Lindholm
8. Darnell Nurse
9. Hunter Shinkaruk
10. Robert Hagg
11. Curtis Lazar
12. Nikita Zadorov
13. Adam Erne
14. Rasmus Ristolainen
15. Anthony Mantha

Ristolainen would have been nice and Mantha, but Nurse was a decent pick.


https://www.si.com/hockey/news/2013-nhl-draft-rankings-1

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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #788134 is a reply to message #788101 ]
Tue, 22 June 2021 16:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skoobz is currently offline Skoobz
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Rutuu wrote on Mon, 21 June 2021 18:48

I am glad we side stepped Nichushkin


Isn't that the guy who EvolvingWild had as a deserving the Hart more than Draisaitl? lmao

"[It was] really cool to throw on the Oilers gear, the gear that I want to play the rest of my life wearing. It was pretty cool to put it on. With all the history, it was a lot of fun." - Connor McDavid, July 1, 2015

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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #788136 is a reply to message #788134 ]
Tue, 22 June 2021 16:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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Skoobz wrote on Tue, 22 June 2021 16:35

Rutuu wrote on Mon, 21 June 2021 18:48

I am glad we side stepped Nichushkin


Isn't that the guy who EvolvingWild had as a deserving the Hart more than Draisaitl? lmao


Watched him in the playoffs, and I totally get now why he is such an analytics darling, but unimpressive every other way. He's pretty involved in plays, I'll give him that, but zero finish or offensive creativity. Think he would be a good 3rd line winger on any team, or a defensive guy on a top 6 line with 2 good offensive players. By no means would he ever be the driving force of real offensive production.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #788138 is a reply to message #788136 ]
Tue, 22 June 2021 17:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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Gregor trying to help the Oilers set the bar as low as possible:

Quote:

While making, and sticking, in the NHL is difficult, it is extremely important if you want to build a contending team. Look at Tampa Bay’s roster. Even if you dislike how they manipulated the salary cap this season, many of their key players were there last year as well.

Alex Killorn (77th pick, 2007), Steven Stamkos (first pick, 2008), Viktor Hedman (second pick, 2009), Nikita Kucherov (58th, 2011), Ondrej Palat (208th, 2011), Andrei Vasilevskiy (19th, 2012), Brayden Point (79th, 2014) and Anthony Cirelli (72nd, 2015) are key players for the Bolts. Also they traded Jonathon Drouin (third, 2013) for Mikhail Sergachev.

The team’s main core was built through the draft and they have elite players in goal, on defence and up front. They won the Cup 12 years after Stamkos was drafted, 11 years after Hedman and nine and eight respectively for Kucherov and Vasilevskiy.

If Edmonton hopes to do the same, then I’d say the Oilers’ core began in 2013 with Darnell Nurse, followed by Leon Draisaitl in 2014 and Connor McDavid in 2015. They will need a few of Jesse Puljujarvi, Kailer Yamamoto, Dylan Holloway, Evan Bouchard, Ethan Bear, Philip Broberg, Dmitri Samorukov and Ryan McLeod to be impact players in the coming years.

Edmonton would need to go to the Stanley Cup final this year to match the Lightning, who lost the Cup final in 2015, so that might be unrealistic. But the next five seasons should be years where Edmonton wins a round or two in the playoffs. There are various paths to becoming a champion, but the Oilers will need some of its young players to emerge and become impactful secondary players behind the Oilers’ main leaders.

In saying that, I think the expectations on players needs to be realistic. The good news is the Oilers don’t need another elite offensive forward. Of course it would be great if one could emerge in the next few seasons, but they have the two leading scorers. They need a few 50-60 point players up front and a few top-four D-men.

And Vegas is proof you don’t just need to draft well to be competitive. You need to make good trades and be aggressive, even if not every trade works.


Compares to Tampa, uses Stamkos draft year as the base to give them 12 years to get to the first Cup, concedes they need to go to the Finals next season to match Tampa's pace and says they probably won't. Then talks about how far they are away, and even mentions Vegas - who somehow has had several deep runs in their first years of existence, without the advantage of having two of the top five players in the league.

Edmonton media is amazing at this - providing as much cover as possible for the team's management and their complete lack of urgency in building a winner.

https://oilersnation.com/2021/06/22/nhl-draft-realistic-comp arisons-and-expectations/

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #788162 is a reply to message #788138 ]
Wed, 23 June 2021 11:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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Adam wrote on Tue, 22 June 2021 17:30

Gregor trying to help the Oilers set the bar as low as possible:

Quote:

While making, and sticking, in the NHL is difficult, it is extremely important if you want to build a contending team. Look at Tampa Bay’s roster. Even if you dislike how they manipulated the salary cap this season, many of their key players were there last year as well.

Alex Killorn (77th pick, 2007), Steven Stamkos (first pick, 2008), Viktor Hedman (second pick, 2009), Nikita Kucherov (58th, 2011), Ondrej Palat (208th, 2011), Andrei Vasilevskiy (19th, 2012), Brayden Point (79th, 2014) and Anthony Cirelli (72nd, 2015) are key players for the Bolts. Also they traded Jonathon Drouin (third, 2013) for Mikhail Sergachev.

The team’s main core was built through the draft and they have elite players in goal, on defence and up front. They won the Cup 12 years after Stamkos was drafted, 11 years after Hedman and nine and eight respectively for Kucherov and Vasilevskiy.

If Edmonton hopes to do the same, then I’d say the Oilers’ core began in 2013 with Darnell Nurse, followed by Leon Draisaitl in 2014 and Connor McDavid in 2015. They will need a few of Jesse Puljujarvi, Kailer Yamamoto, Dylan Holloway, Evan Bouchard, Ethan Bear, Philip Broberg, Dmitri Samorukov and Ryan McLeod to be impact players in the coming years.

Edmonton would need to go to the Stanley Cup final this year to match the Lightning, who lost the Cup final in 2015, so that might be unrealistic. But the next five seasons should be years where Edmonton wins a round or two in the playoffs. There are various paths to becoming a champion, but the Oilers will need some of its young players to emerge and become impactful secondary players behind the Oilers’ main leaders.

In saying that, I think the expectations on players needs to be realistic. The good news is the Oilers don’t need another elite offensive forward. Of course it would be great if one could emerge in the next few seasons, but they have the two leading scorers. They need a few 50-60 point players up front and a few top-four D-men.

And Vegas is proof you don’t just need to draft well to be competitive. You need to make good trades and be aggressive, even if not every trade works.


Compares to Tampa, uses Stamkos draft year as the base to give them 12 years to get to the first Cup, concedes they need to go to the Finals next season to match Tampa's pace and says they probably won't. Then talks about how far they are away, and even mentions Vegas - who somehow has had several deep runs in their first years of existence, without the advantage of having two of the top five players in the league.

Edmonton media is amazing at this - providing as much cover as possible for the team's management and their complete lack of urgency in building a winner.

https://oilersnation.com/2021/06/22/nhl-draft-realistic-comp arisons-and-expectations/

Also he neglected to mention the comparable for the Druin-Sergachev trade would be Hall for Larsson...

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #788164 is a reply to message #788162 ]
Wed, 23 June 2021 11:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently online RDOilerfan
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Wed, 23 June 2021 11:24

Adam wrote on Tue, 22 June 2021 17:30

Gregor trying to help the Oilers set the bar as low as possible:

Quote:

While making, and sticking, in the NHL is difficult, it is extremely important if you want to build a contending team. Look at Tampa Bay’s roster. Even if you dislike how they manipulated the salary cap this season, many of their key players were there last year as well.

Alex Killorn (77th pick, 2007), Steven Stamkos (first pick, 2008), Viktor Hedman (second pick, 2009), Nikita Kucherov (58th, 2011), Ondrej Palat (208th, 2011), Andrei Vasilevskiy (19th, 2012), Brayden Point (79th, 2014) and Anthony Cirelli (72nd, 2015) are key players for the Bolts. Also they traded Jonathon Drouin (third, 2013) for Mikhail Sergachev.

The team’s main core was built through the draft and they have elite players in goal, on defence and up front. They won the Cup 12 years after Stamkos was drafted, 11 years after Hedman and nine and eight respectively for Kucherov and Vasilevskiy.

If Edmonton hopes to do the same, then I’d say the Oilers’ core began in 2013 with Darnell Nurse, followed by Leon Draisaitl in 2014 and Connor McDavid in 2015. They will need a few of Jesse Puljujarvi, Kailer Yamamoto, Dylan Holloway, Evan Bouchard, Ethan Bear, Philip Broberg, Dmitri Samorukov and Ryan McLeod to be impact players in the coming years.

Edmonton would need to go to the Stanley Cup final this year to match the Lightning, who lost the Cup final in 2015, so that might be unrealistic. But the next five seasons should be years where Edmonton wins a round or two in the playoffs. There are various paths to becoming a champion, but the Oilers will need some of its young players to emerge and become impactful secondary players behind the Oilers’ main leaders.

In saying that, I think the expectations on players needs to be realistic. The good news is the Oilers don’t need another elite offensive forward. Of course it would be great if one could emerge in the next few seasons, but they have the two leading scorers. They need a few 50-60 point players up front and a few top-four D-men.

And Vegas is proof you don’t just need to draft well to be competitive. You need to make good trades and be aggressive, even if not every trade works.


Compares to Tampa, uses Stamkos draft year as the base to give them 12 years to get to the first Cup, concedes they need to go to the Finals next season to match Tampa's pace and says they probably won't. Then talks about how far they are away, and even mentions Vegas - who somehow has had several deep runs in their first years of existence, without the advantage of having two of the top five players in the league.

Edmonton media is amazing at this - providing as much cover as possible for the team's management and their complete lack of urgency in building a winner.

https://oilersnation.com/2021/06/22/nhl-draft-realistic-comp arisons-and-expectations/

Also he neglected to mention the comparable for the Druin-Sergachev trade would be Hall for Larsson...

That one definitely worked out in Tampa's favor. I wonder what the Habs do with Drouin? He's been on personal leave since before the playoffs and they sure don't seem to be missing him much on the ice.

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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #788165 is a reply to message #788164 ]
Wed, 23 June 2021 11:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 23 June 2021 11:27

CrudeRemarks wrote on Wed, 23 June 2021 11:24

Adam wrote on Tue, 22 June 2021 17:30

Gregor trying to help the Oilers set the bar as low as possible:

Quote:

While making, and sticking, in the NHL is difficult, it is extremely important if you want to build a contending team. Look at Tampa Bay’s roster. Even if you dislike how they manipulated the salary cap this season, many of their key players were there last year as well.

Alex Killorn (77th pick, 2007), Steven Stamkos (first pick, 2008), Viktor Hedman (second pick, 2009), Nikita Kucherov (58th, 2011), Ondrej Palat (208th, 2011), Andrei Vasilevskiy (19th, 2012), Brayden Point (79th, 2014) and Anthony Cirelli (72nd, 2015) are key players for the Bolts. Also they traded Jonathon Drouin (third, 2013) for Mikhail Sergachev.

The team’s main core was built through the draft and they have elite players in goal, on defence and up front. They won the Cup 12 years after Stamkos was drafted, 11 years after Hedman and nine and eight respectively for Kucherov and Vasilevskiy.

If Edmonton hopes to do the same, then I’d say the Oilers’ core began in 2013 with Darnell Nurse, followed by Leon Draisaitl in 2014 and Connor McDavid in 2015. They will need a few of Jesse Puljujarvi, Kailer Yamamoto, Dylan Holloway, Evan Bouchard, Ethan Bear, Philip Broberg, Dmitri Samorukov and Ryan McLeod to be impact players in the coming years.

Edmonton would need to go to the Stanley Cup final this year to match the Lightning, who lost the Cup final in 2015, so that might be unrealistic. But the next five seasons should be years where Edmonton wins a round or two in the playoffs. There are various paths to becoming a champion, but the Oilers will need some of its young players to emerge and become impactful secondary players behind the Oilers’ main leaders.

In saying that, I think the expectations on players needs to be realistic. The good news is the Oilers don’t need another elite offensive forward. Of course it would be great if one could emerge in the next few seasons, but they have the two leading scorers. They need a few 50-60 point players up front and a few top-four D-men.

And Vegas is proof you don’t just need to draft well to be competitive. You need to make good trades and be aggressive, even if not every trade works.


Compares to Tampa, uses Stamkos draft year as the base to give them 12 years to get to the first Cup, concedes they need to go to the Finals next season to match Tampa's pace and says they probably won't. Then talks about how far they are away, and even mentions Vegas - who somehow has had several deep runs in their first years of existence, without the advantage of having two of the top five players in the league.

Edmonton media is amazing at this - providing as much cover as possible for the team's management and their complete lack of urgency in building a winner.

https://oilersnation.com/2021/06/22/nhl-draft-realistic-comp arisons-and-expectations/

Also he neglected to mention the comparable for the Druin-Sergachev trade would be Hall for Larsson...

That one definitely worked out in Tampa's favor. I wonder what the Habs do with Drouin? He's been on personal leave since before the playoffs and they sure don't seem to be missing him much on the ice.

I'd flip them Kassian for him. It would be great to have somebody the local media know they'll be picking on. Keeps the heat off young dmen.

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #788166 is a reply to message #788165 ]
Wed, 23 June 2021 11:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently online RDOilerfan
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Wed, 23 June 2021 11:30

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 23 June 2021 11:27

CrudeRemarks wrote on Wed, 23 June 2021 11:24

Adam wrote on Tue, 22 June 2021 17:30

Gregor trying to help the Oilers set the bar as low as possible:

Quote:

While making, and sticking, in the NHL is difficult, it is extremely important if you want to build a contending team. Look at Tampa Bay’s roster. Even if you dislike how they manipulated the salary cap this season, many of their key players were there last year as well.

Alex Killorn (77th pick, 2007), Steven Stamkos (first pick, 2008), Viktor Hedman (second pick, 2009), Nikita Kucherov (58th, 2011), Ondrej Palat (208th, 2011), Andrei Vasilevskiy (19th, 2012), Brayden Point (79th, 2014) and Anthony Cirelli (72nd, 2015) are key players for the Bolts. Also they traded Jonathon Drouin (third, 2013) for Mikhail Sergachev.

The team’s main core was built through the draft and they have elite players in goal, on defence and up front. They won the Cup 12 years after Stamkos was drafted, 11 years after Hedman and nine and eight respectively for Kucherov and Vasilevskiy.

If Edmonton hopes to do the same, then I’d say the Oilers’ core began in 2013 with Darnell Nurse, followed by Leon Draisaitl in 2014 and Connor McDavid in 2015. They will need a few of Jesse Puljujarvi, Kailer Yamamoto, Dylan Holloway, Evan Bouchard, Ethan Bear, Philip Broberg, Dmitri Samorukov and Ryan McLeod to be impact players in the coming years.

Edmonton would need to go to the Stanley Cup final this year to match the Lightning, who lost the Cup final in 2015, so that might be unrealistic. But the next five seasons should be years where Edmonton wins a round or two in the playoffs. There are various paths to becoming a champion, but the Oilers will need some of its young players to emerge and become impactful secondary players behind the Oilers’ main leaders.

In saying that, I think the expectations on players needs to be realistic. The good news is the Oilers don’t need another elite offensive forward. Of course it would be great if one could emerge in the next few seasons, but they have the two leading scorers. They need a few 50-60 point players up front and a few top-four D-men.

And Vegas is proof you don’t just need to draft well to be competitive. You need to make good trades and be aggressive, even if not every trade works.


Compares to Tampa, uses Stamkos draft year as the base to give them 12 years to get to the first Cup, concedes they need to go to the Finals next season to match Tampa's pace and says they probably won't. Then talks about how far they are away, and even mentions Vegas - who somehow has had several deep runs in their first years of existence, without the advantage of having two of the top five players in the league.

Edmonton media is amazing at this - providing as much cover as possible for the team's management and their complete lack of urgency in building a winner.

https://oilersnation.com/2021/06/22/nhl-draft-realistic-comp arisons-and-expectations/

Also he neglected to mention the comparable for the Druin-Sergachev trade would be Hall for Larsson...

That one definitely worked out in Tampa's favor. I wonder what the Habs do with Drouin? He's been on personal leave since before the playoffs and they sure don't seem to be missing him much on the ice.

I'd flip them Kassian for him. It would be great to have somebody the local media know they'll be picking on. Keeps the heat off young dmen.

The old boys on the Habs seem to be doing pretty well for them right now (Perry & Staal). Maybe they would take on Neal who's making basically the same money and term. A pipe dream I am sure but it's the offseason, why not dream a little.

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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #788177 is a reply to message #788162 ]
Wed, 23 June 2021 13:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Wed, 23 June 2021 11:24

Adam wrote on Tue, 22 June 2021 17:30

Gregor trying to help the Oilers set the bar as low as possible:

Quote:

While making, and sticking, in the NHL is difficult, it is extremely important if you want to build a contending team. Look at Tampa Bay’s roster. Even if you dislike how they manipulated the salary cap this season, many of their key players were there last year as well.

Alex Killorn (77th pick, 2007), Steven Stamkos (first pick, 2008), Viktor Hedman (second pick, 2009), Nikita Kucherov (58th, 2011), Ondrej Palat (208th, 2011), Andrei Vasilevskiy (19th, 2012), Brayden Point (79th, 2014) and Anthony Cirelli (72nd, 2015) are key players for the Bolts. Also they traded Jonathon Drouin (third, 2013) for Mikhail Sergachev.

The team’s main core was built through the draft and they have elite players in goal, on defence and up front. They won the Cup 12 years after Stamkos was drafted, 11 years after Hedman and nine and eight respectively for Kucherov and Vasilevskiy.

If Edmonton hopes to do the same, then I’d say the Oilers’ core began in 2013 with Darnell Nurse, followed by Leon Draisaitl in 2014 and Connor McDavid in 2015. They will need a few of Jesse Puljujarvi, Kailer Yamamoto, Dylan Holloway, Evan Bouchard, Ethan Bear, Philip Broberg, Dmitri Samorukov and Ryan McLeod to be impact players in the coming years.

Edmonton would need to go to the Stanley Cup final this year to match the Lightning, who lost the Cup final in 2015, so that might be unrealistic. But the next five seasons should be years where Edmonton wins a round or two in the playoffs. There are various paths to becoming a champion, but the Oilers will need some of its young players to emerge and become impactful secondary players behind the Oilers’ main leaders.

In saying that, I think the expectations on players needs to be realistic. The good news is the Oilers don’t need another elite offensive forward. Of course it would be great if one could emerge in the next few seasons, but they have the two leading scorers. They need a few 50-60 point players up front and a few top-four D-men.

And Vegas is proof you don’t just need to draft well to be competitive. You need to make good trades and be aggressive, even if not every trade works.


Compares to Tampa, uses Stamkos draft year as the base to give them 12 years to get to the first Cup, concedes they need to go to the Finals next season to match Tampa's pace and says they probably won't. Then talks about how far they are away, and even mentions Vegas - who somehow has had several deep runs in their first years of existence, without the advantage of having two of the top five players in the league.

Edmonton media is amazing at this - providing as much cover as possible for the team's management and their complete lack of urgency in building a winner.

https://oilersnation.com/2021/06/22/nhl-draft-realistic-comp arisons-and-expectations/

Also he neglected to mention the comparable for the Druin-Sergachev trade would be Hall for Larsson...


Having had some back and forth with Gregor on a couple of these things, the team-friendly position he's taking is that Chiarelli screwed them over, so you can't really blame Holland for the first several years of his reign, because it takes time to build a winner and it's almost like starting fresh for him.

He'll point out that the team has improved results-wise in both Holland years and been a playoff team in both years. The obvious answer to that of course, is that there's very little that Holland has done that has contributed to that. The team is dragged along by having a couple of superstars and a couple other cornerstone players, almost all of whom pre-date Ken Holland (and Chiarelli, for that matter). Other than Tyson Barrie and Mike Smith (who defied odds with his performance - it could not have been an expected result by the Oilers when they signed him), Ken Holland's moves have been at best sideways moves.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #788198 is a reply to message #788177 ]
Wed, 23 June 2021 17:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ragnarok73 is currently offline Ragnarok73
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Adam wrote on Wed, 23 June 2021 13:11

Having had some back and forth with Gregor on a couple of these things, the team-friendly position he's taking is that Chiarelli screwed them over, so you can't really blame Holland for the first several years of his reign, because it takes time to build a winner and it's almost like starting fresh for him.

He'll point out that the team has improved results-wise in both Holland years and been a playoff team in both years. The obvious answer to that of course, is that there's very little that Holland has done that has contributed to that. The team is dragged along by having a couple of superstars and a couple other cornerstone players, almost all of whom pre-date Ken Holland (and Chiarelli, for that matter). Other than Tyson Barrie and Mike Smith (who defied odds with his performance - it could not have been an expected result by the Oilers when they signed him), Ken Holland's moves have been at best sideways moves.

Chia DID screw this team over very badly before getting axed in terms of cap space, so Holland's hands were tied going into his job. This isn't to say, however, that KH has done some sort of stellar job filling out the rest of the roster beyond the cornerstone players- Turris, Athaneiou, and a slew of others are a testament to this. The real test of his ability of a GM is coming up this offseason, and he will be under a microscope.

"There's no greater springboard to development than failure." - Craig MacTavish, April 13/15.

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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #788204 is a reply to message #788198 ]
Wed, 23 June 2021 21:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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Ragnarok73 wrote on Wed, 23 June 2021 17:37

Adam wrote on Wed, 23 June 2021 13:11

Having had some back and forth with Gregor on a couple of these things, the team-friendly position he's taking is that Chiarelli screwed them over, so you can't really blame Holland for the first several years of his reign, because it takes time to build a winner and it's almost like starting fresh for him.

He'll point out that the team has improved results-wise in both Holland years and been a playoff team in both years. The obvious answer to that of course, is that there's very little that Holland has done that has contributed to that. The team is dragged along by having a couple of superstars and a couple other cornerstone players, almost all of whom pre-date Ken Holland (and Chiarelli, for that matter). Other than Tyson Barrie and Mike Smith (who defied odds with his performance - it could not have been an expected result by the Oilers when they signed him), Ken Holland's moves have been at best sideways moves.

Chia DID screw this team over very badly before getting axed in terms of cap space, so Holland's hands were tied going into his job. This isn't to say, however, that KH has done some sort of stellar job filling out the rest of the roster beyond the cornerstone players- Turris, Athaneiou, and a slew of others are a testament to this. The real test of his ability of a GM is coming up this offseason, and he will be under a microscope.

I buy that excuse up to this season. There were ways to add. Ways of skirting the official rules. Other teams in a bigger crunch managed to improve their rosters. Holland gets a fail for the approach to this season.

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #787949 is a reply to message #786537 ]
Thu, 17 June 2021 17:19 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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Staples has an article calling out the Oilers pro scouting. Won't link it because I don't want to trigger anyone icon_lol

Anyways, he fails to mention in the article that 2/3 of our pro scouts are Holland's son and messier's bro. I think that would have been worth mentioning for such a critique.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

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- MacT, 2015

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 Re: Ken Holland Season Ending Press Conference [message #787968 is a reply to message #787949 ]
Fri, 18 June 2021 10:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently online RDOilerfan
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Kr55 wrote on Thu, 17 June 2021 17:19

Staples has an article calling out the Oilers pro scouting. Won't link it because I don't want to trigger anyone icon_lol

Anyways, he fails to mention in the article that 2/3 of our pro scouts are Holland's son and messier's bro. I think that would have been worth mentioning for such a critique.



It shouldn't make a bit of difference who the people are. It should come down to are they doing a good job or not. One can make the case that the pro scouting hasn't been great. Some hits, some misses but they could be better in my books.

[Updated on: Fri, 18 June 2021 10:21]

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