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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787328 is a reply to message #787326 ]
Mon, 07 June 2021 11:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Kr55 wrote on Mon, 07 June 2021 11:06

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 07 June 2021 10:24

Oscargasm wrote on Sun, 06 June 2021 19:38

If, IF Holland keeps the pick...

Wallstedt or Cossa?

If they’re both there, which goalie prospect would you prefer? Both would instantly become our #1 in the pipeline.

I am always not a fan of drafting a goalie with a first just because in my opinion goaltending seems to be the hardest to project. Helleybuyck is a 5th round pick as an example. I am of the opinion that for a team to succeed, you have to hit on your firsts. Maybe they don't all end up being star players but whoever you take in the first round, they need to play for your team and be a good contributor. In a cap world, in my opinion, when you take a player in the first round, I think they should be close to NHL ready. Maybe they need a couple of seasons max to develop but I do not think a first rounder should be a long project. There is the odd exception but goalies usually take way long than that to be NHL ready even as a back up.

I don't know who's better between the 2. I know Cossa is the bigger of the 2, not that Wallstedt is small. I would assume given the Oil Kings did play games, Oilers scouts saw him vs the Swedish guy, with Covid, who knows how many viewings they had.

I think his years draft could be more of a crap shoo than normal and we could see way more players picked way later being stars than normal because teams weren't able to view him much or at all.


On the flip side, the only good goalie we've ever developed in forever was a 1st round pick :) Of course we threw him in the trash because of 1 bad season where we killed his confidence by not caring about the slot and missed the entire prime of his career.

Last cup winner was a 1st rounder too. As well as the guy about to sweep the team that swept us.

Not the biggest fan of the odds of getting a good goalie with a high pick, but we must be a team that is near the top candidate to try it. We like going off consensus with our picks anyways.

If you are going to roll the dice with picking a goalie in the first round, with this being a not normal year, lots of kids barely playing if at all, I think this years draft will be even more of a crap shoot. Maybe this is the year you roll the dice on a goalie. The bad part about the 2 guys is one of them plays for the Oil Kings. From the limited information I have heard being reported, Cossa is huge and supposed to be good but there will be fans who will lose their mind if the Oilers draft an Oil King just because.

[Updated on: Mon, 07 June 2021 11:39]


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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787329 is a reply to message #787328 ]
Mon, 07 June 2021 11:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 21863
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Location: Edmonton

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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 07 June 2021 11:36

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 07 June 2021 11:06

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 07 June 2021 10:24

Oscargasm wrote on Sun, 06 June 2021 19:38

If, IF Holland keeps the pick...

Wallstedt or Cossa?

If they’re both there, which goalie prospect would you prefer? Both would instantly become our #1 in the pipeline.

I am always not a fan of drafting a goalie with a first just because in my opinion goaltending seems to be the hardest to project. Helleybuyck is a 5th round pick as an example. I am of the opinion that for a team to succeed, you have to hit on your firsts. Maybe they don't all end up being star players but whoever you take in the first round, they need to play for your team and be a good contributor. In a cap world, in my opinion, when you take a player in the first round, I think they should be close to NHL ready. Maybe they need a couple of seasons max to develop but I do not think a first rounder should be a long project. There is the odd exception but goalies usually take way long than that to be NHL ready even as a back up.

I don't know who's better between the 2. I know Cossa is the bigger of the 2, not that Wallstedt is small. I would assume given the Oil Kings did play games, Oilers scouts saw him vs the Swedish guy, with Covid, who knows how many viewings they had.

I think his years draft could be more of a crap shoo than normal and we could see way more players picked way later being stars than normal because teams weren't able to view him much or at all.


On the flip side, the only good goalie we've ever developed in forever was a 1st round pick :) Of course we threw him in the trash because of 1 bad season where we killed his confidence by not caring about the slot and missed the entire prime of his career.

Last cup winner was a 1st rounder too. As well as the guy about to sweep the team that swept us.

Not the biggest fan of the odds of getting a good goalie with a high pick, but we must be a team that is near the top candidate to try it. We like going off consensus with our picks anyways.

If you are going to roll the dice with picking a goalie in the first round, with this being a not normal year, lots of kids barely playing if at all, I think this years draft will be even more of a crap shoot. Maybe this is the year you roll the dice on a goalie. The bad part about the 2 guys is one of them plays for the Oil Kings. From the limited information I have heard being reported, Cossa is huge and supposed to be good but there will be fans who will lose their mind of the Oilers draft an Oil King just because.


Yes, definitely don't draft the Oil Kings guy :) I think Wallstedt is ranked top 10 in the draft so I'm game for that if he drops.

1st rounder goalies are also great for an org to sell to fans. Many years you can sell the hope of a goalie one day taking the big step compared to a skater prospect that bombs out.



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- Lowe, 2013

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- MacT, 2015

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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787331 is a reply to message #787329 ]
Mon, 07 June 2021 11:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 17990
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

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Kr55 wrote on Mon, 07 June 2021 11:40

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 07 June 2021 11:36

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 07 June 2021 11:06

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 07 June 2021 10:24

Oscargasm wrote on Sun, 06 June 2021 19:38

If, IF Holland keeps the pick...

Wallstedt or Cossa?

If they’re both there, which goalie prospect would you prefer? Both would instantly become our #1 in the pipeline.

I am always not a fan of drafting a goalie with a first just because in my opinion goaltending seems to be the hardest to project. Helleybuyck is a 5th round pick as an example. I am of the opinion that for a team to succeed, you have to hit on your firsts. Maybe they don't all end up being star players but whoever you take in the first round, they need to play for your team and be a good contributor. In a cap world, in my opinion, when you take a player in the first round, I think they should be close to NHL ready. Maybe they need a couple of seasons max to develop but I do not think a first rounder should be a long project. There is the odd exception but goalies usually take way long than that to be NHL ready even as a back up.

I don't know who's better between the 2. I know Cossa is the bigger of the 2, not that Wallstedt is small. I would assume given the Oil Kings did play games, Oilers scouts saw him vs the Swedish guy, with Covid, who knows how many viewings they had.

I think his years draft could be more of a crap shoo than normal and we could see way more players picked way later being stars than normal because teams weren't able to view him much or at all.


On the flip side, the only good goalie we've ever developed in forever was a 1st round pick :) Of course we threw him in the trash because of 1 bad season where we killed his confidence by not caring about the slot and missed the entire prime of his career.

Last cup winner was a 1st rounder too. As well as the guy about to sweep the team that swept us.

Not the biggest fan of the odds of getting a good goalie with a high pick, but we must be a team that is near the top candidate to try it. We like going off consensus with our picks anyways.

If you are going to roll the dice with picking a goalie in the first round, with this being a not normal year, lots of kids barely playing if at all, I think this years draft will be even more of a crap shoot. Maybe this is the year you roll the dice on a goalie. The bad part about the 2 guys is one of them plays for the Oil Kings. From the limited information I have heard being reported, Cossa is huge and supposed to be good but there will be fans who will lose their mind of the Oilers draft an Oil King just because.


Yes, definitely don't draft the Oil Kings guy :) I think Wallstedt is ranked top 10 in the draft so I'm game for that if he drops.

1st rounder goalies are also great for an org to sell to fans. Many years you can sell the hope of a goalie one day taking the big step compared to a skater prospect that bombs out.


Oilers are 2 for 2 with goalies taken in the first round...even given that they tried really hard to screw up the development on the second one! And if a guy can have up to 10 appearances before we lose a year, then we can keep him up for most of his 18 year old year!



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireChiarelli #FireBobbyNicks #FireKeithGretzky #FireKenHolland #FireTippett

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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787333 is a reply to message #787331 ]
Mon, 07 June 2021 11:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne  is currently offline PlusOne
Messages: 3227
Registered: July 2006
Location: Regina, Sask

3 Cups

Adam wrote on Mon, 07 June 2021 11:51

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 07 June 2021 11:40

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 07 June 2021 11:36

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 07 June 2021 11:06

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 07 June 2021 10:24

Oscargasm wrote on Sun, 06 June 2021 19:38

If, IF Holland keeps the pick...

Wallstedt or Cossa?

If they’re both there, which goalie prospect would you prefer? Both would instantly become our #1 in the pipeline.

I am always not a fan of drafting a goalie with a first just because in my opinion goaltending seems to be the hardest to project. Helleybuyck is a 5th round pick as an example. I am of the opinion that for a team to succeed, you have to hit on your firsts. Maybe they don't all end up being star players but whoever you take in the first round, they need to play for your team and be a good contributor. In a cap world, in my opinion, when you take a player in the first round, I think they should be close to NHL ready. Maybe they need a couple of seasons max to develop but I do not think a first rounder should be a long project. There is the odd exception but goalies usually take way long than that to be NHL ready even as a back up.

I don't know who's better between the 2. I know Cossa is the bigger of the 2, not that Wallstedt is small. I would assume given the Oil Kings did play games, Oilers scouts saw him vs the Swedish guy, with Covid, who knows how many viewings they had.

I think his years draft could be more of a crap shoo than normal and we could see way more players picked way later being stars than normal because teams weren't able to view him much or at all.


On the flip side, the only good goalie we've ever developed in forever was a 1st round pick :) Of course we threw him in the trash because of 1 bad season where we killed his confidence by not caring about the slot and missed the entire prime of his career.

Last cup winner was a 1st rounder too. As well as the guy about to sweep the team that swept us.

Not the biggest fan of the odds of getting a good goalie with a high pick, but we must be a team that is near the top candidate to try it. We like going off consensus with our picks anyways.

If you are going to roll the dice with picking a goalie in the first round, with this being a not normal year, lots of kids barely playing if at all, I think this years draft will be even more of a crap shoot. Maybe this is the year you roll the dice on a goalie. The bad part about the 2 guys is one of them plays for the Oil Kings. From the limited information I have heard being reported, Cossa is huge and supposed to be good but there will be fans who will lose their mind of the Oilers draft an Oil King just because.


Yes, definitely don't draft the Oil Kings guy :) I think Wallstedt is ranked top 10 in the draft so I'm game for that if he drops.

1st rounder goalies are also great for an org to sell to fans. Many years you can sell the hope of a goalie one day taking the big step compared to a skater prospect that bombs out.


Oilers are 2 for 2 with goalies taken in the first round...even given that they tried really hard to screw up the development on the second one! And if a guy can have up to 10 appearances before we lose a year, then we can keep him up for most of his 18 year old year!


I did a quick search but couldnt find a good analysis of 1st round goalies, success VS busts. Perhaps my dislike of drafting one in the first round is a myth that I have accepted as fact.
One of these days when I have time I will have to go through the last 20 years or so and take a look at goalie draft history. Given it doesnt happen (1st round goalies) that often I may not even find a good correlation or pattern to look at but it is worth a few minutes of time.
Maybe it is an urban legend like the importance of plus minus and FO% being important metrics.




Survivor LX(I) and 67 Champ(i)on


CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

und(i)sputed O.L.F.N Heavybra(i)n Champ(i)on of the Woooooooooooooooooorld. Plus. One.

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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787335 is a reply to message #787333 ]
Mon, 07 June 2021 12:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike  is currently offline Mike
Messages: 4865
Registered: August 2005
Location: Moncton, New Brunswick

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PlusOne wrote on Mon, 07 June 2021 14:57

Adam wrote on Mon, 07 June 2021 11:51

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 07 June 2021 11:40

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 07 June 2021 11:36

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 07 June 2021 11:06

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 07 June 2021 10:24

Oscargasm wrote on Sun, 06 June 2021 19:38

If, IF Holland keeps the pick...

Wallstedt or Cossa?

If they’re both there, which goalie prospect would you prefer? Both would instantly become our #1 in the pipeline.

I am always not a fan of drafting a goalie with a first just because in my opinion goaltending seems to be the hardest to project. Helleybuyck is a 5th round pick as an example. I am of the opinion that for a team to succeed, you have to hit on your firsts. Maybe they don't all end up being star players but whoever you take in the first round, they need to play for your team and be a good contributor. In a cap world, in my opinion, when you take a player in the first round, I think they should be close to NHL ready. Maybe they need a couple of seasons max to develop but I do not think a first rounder should be a long project. There is the odd exception but goalies usually take way long than that to be NHL ready even as a back up.

I don't know who's better between the 2. I know Cossa is the bigger of the 2, not that Wallstedt is small. I would assume given the Oil Kings did play games, Oilers scouts saw him vs the Swedish guy, with Covid, who knows how many viewings they had.

I think his years draft could be more of a crap shoo than normal and we could see way more players picked way later being stars than normal because teams weren't able to view him much or at all.


On the flip side, the only good goalie we've ever developed in forever was a 1st round pick :) Of course we threw him in the trash because of 1 bad season where we killed his confidence by not caring about the slot and missed the entire prime of his career.

Last cup winner was a 1st rounder too. As well as the guy about to sweep the team that swept us.

Not the biggest fan of the odds of getting a good goalie with a high pick, but we must be a team that is near the top candidate to try it. We like going off consensus with our picks anyways.

If you are going to roll the dice with picking a goalie in the first round, with this being a not normal year, lots of kids barely playing if at all, I think this years draft will be even more of a crap shoot. Maybe this is the year you roll the dice on a goalie. The bad part about the 2 guys is one of them plays for the Oil Kings. From the limited information I have heard being reported, Cossa is huge and supposed to be good but there will be fans who will lose their mind of the Oilers draft an Oil King just because.


Yes, definitely don't draft the Oil Kings guy :) I think Wallstedt is ranked top 10 in the draft so I'm game for that if he drops.

1st rounder goalies are also great for an org to sell to fans. Many years you can sell the hope of a goalie one day taking the big step compared to a skater prospect that bombs out.


Oilers are 2 for 2 with goalies taken in the first round...even given that they tried really hard to screw up the development on the second one! And if a guy can have up to 10 appearances before we lose a year, then we can keep him up for most of his 18 year old year!


I did a quick search but couldnt find a good analysis of 1st round goalies, success VS busts. Perhaps my dislike of drafting one in the first round is a myth that I have accepted as fact.
One of these days when I have time I will have to go through the last 20 years or so and take a look at goalie draft history. Given it doesnt happen (1st round goalies) that often I may not even find a good correlation or pattern to look at but it is worth a few minutes of time.
Maybe it is an urban legend like the importance of plus minus and FO% being important metrics.




I've always been of the same mind, but lately starting to waver. I look at guys like Price, Fleury, Rask, Vasilevsky, Varlamov, and I think might not be a bad gamble. A few of these guys end up making it within 2-3 years.



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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787339 is a reply to message #787335 ]
Mon, 07 June 2021 12:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Mike wrote on Mon, 07 June 2021 12:10


I've always been of the same mind, but lately starting to waver. I look at guys like Price, Fleury, Rask, Vasilevsky, Varlamov, and I think might not be a bad gamble. A few of these guys end up making it within 2-3 years.



Interesting thought reading this - where did the final 8 starting goalies get drafted:

Canadiens - 1st round
Jets - 5th round
Lightning - 1st round
Hurricanes - 2nd round (Nedeljkovic)
Golden Knights - 1st round
Avalanche - 4th round
Bruins - 1st round
Islanders - 1st round/3rd round (both goalies splitting action so far)

So five of the teams left are using a goalie picked in the first round, while another is using an early 2nd round pick.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireChiarelli #FireBobbyNicks #FireKeithGretzky #FireKenHolland #FireTippett

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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787346 is a reply to message #787339 ]
Mon, 07 June 2021 13:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne  is currently offline PlusOne
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Adam wrote on Mon, 07 June 2021 12:37

Mike wrote on Mon, 07 June 2021 12:10


I've always been of the same mind, but lately starting to waver. I look at guys like Price, Fleury, Rask, Vasilevsky, Varlamov, and I think might not be a bad gamble. A few of these guys end up making it within 2-3 years.



Interesting thought reading this - where did the final 8 starting goalies get drafted:

Canadiens - 1st round
Jets - 5th round
Lightning - 1st round
Hurricanes - 2nd round (Nedeljkovic)
Golden Knights - 1st round
Avalanche - 4th round
Bruins - 1st round
Islanders - 1st round/3rd round (both goalies splitting action so far)

So five of the teams left are using a goalie picked in the first round, while another is using an early 2nd round pick.


Interesting to note how many were 1st round picks. I think it is also interesting that 4 on that list are not playing for the team that drafted them.
That leads me to a question of whether a 1st is better used to acquire a goalie or draft one?



Survivor LX(I) and 67 Champ(i)on


CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

und(i)sputed O.L.F.N Heavybra(i)n Champ(i)on of the Woooooooooooooooooorld. Plus. One.

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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787347 is a reply to message #787339 ]
Mon, 07 June 2021 13:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NetBOG  is currently offline NetBOG
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Adam wrote on Mon, 07 June 2021 12:37

Mike wrote on Mon, 07 June 2021 12:10


I've always been of the same mind, but lately starting to waver. I look at guys like Price, Fleury, Rask, Vasilevsky, Varlamov, and I think might not be a bad gamble. A few of these guys end up making it within 2-3 years.



Interesting thought reading this - where did the final 8 starting goalies get drafted:

Canadiens - 1st round
Jets - 5th round
Lightning - 1st round
Hurricanes - 2nd round (Nedeljkovic)
Golden Knights - 1st round
Avalanche - 4th round
Bruins - 1st round
Islanders - 1st round/3rd round (both goalies splitting action so far)

So five of the teams left are using a goalie picked in the first round, while another is using an early 2nd round pick.


Sure, but only 2 are on the teams that drafted them, and one of those was a late 1st round pick in the weakest draft of all time. I will give you Price though. (Anze Kopitar may be better but he was a gamble for LA)

Anybody could have had Fleury last fall/winter for a literal bucket of pucks. And I'm pretty sure Nedeljkovic was on waivers this January.

In fact, Nedeljkovic was placed on waivers to make room for the waiver claim of our boy, Tony Forsberg.

[Updated on: Mon, 07 June 2021 13:53]


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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787348 is a reply to message #787347 ]
Mon, 07 June 2021 13:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike  is currently offline Mike
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NetBOG wrote on Mon, 07 June 2021 16:48

Adam wrote on Mon, 07 June 2021 12:37

Mike wrote on Mon, 07 June 2021 12:10


I've always been of the same mind, but lately starting to waver. I look at guys like Price, Fleury, Rask, Vasilevsky, Varlamov, and I think might not be a bad gamble. A few of these guys end up making it within 2-3 years.



Interesting thought reading this - where did the final 8 starting goalies get drafted:

Canadiens - 1st round
Jets - 5th round
Lightning - 1st round
Hurricanes - 2nd round (Nedeljkovic)
Golden Knights - 1st round
Avalanche - 4th round
Bruins - 1st round
Islanders - 1st round/3rd round (both goalies splitting action so far)

So five of the teams left are using a goalie picked in the first round, while another is using an early 2nd round pick.


Sure, but only 2 are on the teams that drafted them, and one of those was a late 1st round pick in the weakest draft of all time. I will give you Price though. (Anze Kopitar may be better but he was a gamble for LA)

Anybody could have had Fleury last fall/winter for a literal bucket of pucks. And I'm pretty sure Nedeljkovic was on waivers this January.

In fact, Nedeljkovic was placed on waivers to make room for the waiver claim of our boy, Tony Forsberg.


Fleury still won a Cup with the team that drafted him, and Rask has only ever played for Boston (traded for Calder winner Andrew Raycroft iirc)

I'm not 100% all in for picking a goalie in the 1st round, just not as opposed to it as I used to be.



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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787355 is a reply to message #787347 ]
Mon, 07 June 2021 16:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Location: Edmonton, AB

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NetBOG wrote on Mon, 07 June 2021 13:48

Adam wrote on Mon, 07 June 2021 12:37

Mike wrote on Mon, 07 June 2021 12:10


I've always been of the same mind, but lately starting to waver. I look at guys like Price, Fleury, Rask, Vasilevsky, Varlamov, and I think might not be a bad gamble. A few of these guys end up making it within 2-3 years.



Interesting thought reading this - where did the final 8 starting goalies get drafted:

Canadiens - 1st round
Jets - 5th round
Lightning - 1st round
Hurricanes - 2nd round (Nedeljkovic)
Golden Knights - 1st round
Avalanche - 4th round
Bruins - 1st round
Islanders - 1st round/3rd round (both goalies splitting action so far)

So five of the teams left are using a goalie picked in the first round, while another is using an early 2nd round pick.


Sure, but only 2 are on the teams that drafted them, and one of those was a late 1st round pick in the weakest draft of all time. I will give you Price though. (Anze Kopitar may be better but he was a gamble for LA)

Anybody could have had Fleury last fall/winter for a literal bucket of pucks. And I'm pretty sure Nedeljkovic was on waivers this January.

In fact, Nedeljkovic was placed on waivers to make room for the waiver claim of our boy, Tony Forsberg.


Yep - sometimes the path for players isn't direct and goalies do often take longer to make the team. But clearly the people who made those picks didn't miss.

Fleury could have been had cheap, but only because he's got a big contract in a tough cap environment. He's quite clearly still a really good goalie and as Mike says, won a Cup where he was drafted.

I still think the point stands. If it's a really good goalie, it may be worth spending a first round pick on - especially if you have no really good goalies in your system and the strategy of picking mid-to-late round goalies hasn't produced a Hellebuyck for you, nor has signing over-agers out of Europe.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireChiarelli #FireBobbyNicks #FireKeithGretzky #FireKenHolland #FireTippett

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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787336 is a reply to message #787333 ]
Mon, 07 June 2021 12:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 17990
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

PlusOne wrote on Mon, 07 June 2021 11:57

Adam wrote on Mon, 07 June 2021 11:51

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 07 June 2021 11:40

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 07 June 2021 11:36

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 07 June 2021 11:06

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 07 June 2021 10:24

Oscargasm wrote on Sun, 06 June 2021 19:38

If, IF Holland keeps the pick...

Wallstedt or Cossa?

If they’re both there, which goalie prospect would you prefer? Both would instantly become our #1 in the pipeline.

I am always not a fan of drafting a goalie with a first just because in my opinion goaltending seems to be the hardest to project. Helleybuyck is a 5th round pick as an example. I am of the opinion that for a team to succeed, you have to hit on your firsts. Maybe they don't all end up being star players but whoever you take in the first round, they need to play for your team and be a good contributor. In a cap world, in my opinion, when you take a player in the first round, I think they should be close to NHL ready. Maybe they need a couple of seasons max to develop but I do not think a first rounder should be a long project. There is the odd exception but goalies usually take way long than that to be NHL ready even as a back up.

I don't know who's better between the 2. I know Cossa is the bigger of the 2, not that Wallstedt is small. I would assume given the Oil Kings did play games, Oilers scouts saw him vs the Swedish guy, with Covid, who knows how many viewings they had.

I think his years draft could be more of a crap shoo than normal and we could see way more players picked way later being stars than normal because teams weren't able to view him much or at all.


On the flip side, the only good goalie we've ever developed in forever was a 1st round pick :) Of course we threw him in the trash because of 1 bad season where we killed his confidence by not caring about the slot and missed the entire prime of his career.

Last cup winner was a 1st rounder too. As well as the guy about to sweep the team that swept us.

Not the biggest fan of the odds of getting a good goalie with a high pick, but we must be a team that is near the top candidate to try it. We like going off consensus with our picks anyways.

If you are going to roll the dice with picking a goalie in the first round, with this being a not normal year, lots of kids barely playing if at all, I think this years draft will be even more of a crap shoot. Maybe this is the year you roll the dice on a goalie. The bad part about the 2 guys is one of them plays for the Oil Kings. From the limited information I have heard being reported, Cossa is huge and supposed to be good but there will be fans who will lose their mind of the Oilers draft an Oil King just because.


Yes, definitely don't draft the Oil Kings guy :) I think Wallstedt is ranked top 10 in the draft so I'm game for that if he drops.

1st rounder goalies are also great for an org to sell to fans. Many years you can sell the hope of a goalie one day taking the big step compared to a skater prospect that bombs out.


Oilers are 2 for 2 with goalies taken in the first round...even given that they tried really hard to screw up the development on the second one! And if a guy can have up to 10 appearances before we lose a year, then we can keep him up for most of his 18 year old year!


I did a quick search but couldnt find a good analysis of 1st round goalies, success VS busts. Perhaps my dislike of drafting one in the first round is a myth that I have accepted as fact.
One of these days when I have time I will have to go through the last 20 years or so and take a look at goalie draft history. Given it doesnt happen (1st round goalies) that often I may not even find a good correlation or pattern to look at but it is worth a few minutes of time.
Maybe it is an urban legend like the importance of plus minus and FO% being important metrics.




I think there are definitely examples on both sides for goalies, and the hit rate for netminders is probably lower than some other positions. Still, Brodeur, Luongo, Fleury, Vasilevski...there's lots of really good goalies out there who were first round picks.

I do think it is the hardest position to evaluate - you really can't just look at traditional stats alone because if someone is on a really good team that limits high danger chances, their numbers may be great without them being great. I think at younger levels where the skill level isn't so high, sometimes really big guys seem unbeatable, even if they lack the mobility and athleticism to be great at the next level. Like every other position, everyone's trajectory is a little different so some guys look great at 17 but peak in their development.

Some great goalies on this list though:
https://www.quanthockey.com/nhl-draft/en/round/1-round-draft -picks-goalies-all-time-games-played-leaders.html

Here's a look at all the guys picked in the first round since the turn of the century. More good than bad, although a couple terrible picks in there (including one-time Oiler and Ryan Rishaug favourite Al Montoya).
https://ontapsportsnet.com/2020/05/22/looking-back-at-goalie s-taken-in-first-round-of-the-nhl-draft/

One challenge with netminders is that it's a lot harder to find a place for them to play, and a year or two playing sparsely can be the end of a guy's path. It's a true miracle that Dubnyk navigated his development boondoggle as the Oilers tried to develop two goaltenders in other team's minor league systems. I'm sure there's guys who fall through the cracks because there's another prospect the team values more and a third string veteran so they just can't get enough playing time and just languish in the ECHL.

I do think it's likely that scouting continues to improve on goalies just as with skaters, and so you're likely to get less crazy variability in results. You'll still likely see first round goalies topping out very differently, but I think we'll see early picks become more likely to make the NHL and have an NHL career.

I wouldn't burn many 1st round picks on goalies - certainly there's lots of evidence you can find good netminders a few other ways - but there are guys that are worth doing it for. I would have wanted the Oilers to have picked Askarov if he'd fallen a couple more spots, for instance.



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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787410 is a reply to message #787336 ]
Tue, 08 June 2021 15:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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I do not think either of this years top goalies will slip to us, but I would be okay with us drafting either one of them. Truthfully, a goalie might have a quicker path to the NHL in Edmonton than on any other team in the NHL. One extra year of junior, one in the minors and if they are trending up then I could see a guy getting an opportunity.

If Konovolov played in the AHL this year and did well, I would expect him to audition for a job next camp. Heck, he might even get a push without a year in the AHL if we have some goalie issues next year and he is playing well in a half season of Condors hockey.

I'd love to have Spencer Knight coming up. I would not do the Panthers plan and draft a guy 10th overall after dishing out a long term 10M AAV to a UFA though.



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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787428 is a reply to message #787410 ]
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Mike  is currently offline Mike
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And seeing Vasilevsky tonight makes me even more OK getting a stud G prospect with a mid first. Wow was he good.


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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787429 is a reply to message #787428 ]
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Tampa definitely has some really good players but they also have a massive advantage due to their taxes over most teams especially Canadian teams. They can pay less in cap hit but have their guys take home be the same or maybe more than other guys in the league with gives them way more flexibility. As an example. Vasilevsky just started a 9.5 mill cap hit. Price signed not quite 3 years ago for 10.5 mill cap hit. Vasilevsky is a better goalie now and may have been at minimum on par with Price 3 yrs ago. Normally agents compare contracts. So you'd think Price's 10.5 would have been the starting point and it's hard for the team to argue against that. So Vasilevsky's cap hit should have at least been the same, probably more but I bet Vasilevsky's take home is MORE than Price's due to taxes. 1 mill difference in cap space is a decent 4th line player or the ability to keep a guy. Kucherov probably makes 2 mill in cap hit less than he would in most places but I bet is take home is on par with Matthews. Go down their team and there are multiple guys who's cap hit is lower than what it would be on most teams because of taxes and their take home being comparable to others.


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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787430 is a reply to message #787429 ]
Wed, 09 June 2021 08:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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The tax advantage not as big as people make it sound in my opinion. It’s not as cut and dry as people think. Their state tax only applies only to home games. But when you add bonuses, it gets messy.

Players in Canada get paid in USD. Those dollars go farther here. Players in Canada get way more endorsement opportunities if they want it. These are the arguments that Canadian GMs should be making that they do not.




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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787431 is a reply to message #787430 ]
Wed, 09 June 2021 09:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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smyth260 wrote on Wed, 09 June 2021 08:42

The tax advantage not as big as people make it sound in my opinion. It’s not as cut and dry as people think. Their state tax only applies only to home games. But when you add bonuses, it gets messy.

Players in Canada get paid in USD. Those dollars go farther here. Players in Canada get way more endorsement opportunities if they want it. These are the arguments that Canadian GMs should be making that they do not.



You are kidding me right about the taxes not being an an advantage in Florida vs anywhere else? It's a fact, their taxes are significantly less and in Canada and many other states.

Other evidence. After the 18-19 season Kucherov won the Art ross, Hart and Lindsay. So his contract leverage probably wouldn't be ANY higher after that season. He signs for 9.5 mill. Which puts him a tie for 16th in cap hit. After, Matthews signs for 11.6 mill, Marner 10.9. Both those 2 are really, really good players. Do either of them have a better resume than Kucherov? NO. Matthews signed his deal 7 months after Kucherov, is he 2 mill better than Kucherov? No chance. But he makes 2 mill more in cap hit in market that as you say should have more endorsements opportunities than Tampa. Panarin was a UFA, makes 11.6 mill. New York is I think the biggest city in North America, one of the most famous. The Rangers are a pretty big deal in New Yoro so you have to think the endorsement opportunities would be big for Panarin. He is really, really good too but he doesn't have a resume like Kucherov yet me makes 2 mill more.

All of Canada has higher taxes than Florida, New York is supposed to have higher taxes. California is supposed to have higher taxes. So if taxes are not a factor, how do you explain Kucherov totally fine with Kucherov taking a 2 mill haircut over players he's at least as good if not better than?

[Updated on: Wed, 09 June 2021 09:14]


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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787434 is a reply to message #787431 ]
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smyth260  is currently offline smyth260
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The tone you get when somebody offers a counterargument...

Canadian teams are worse at selling their financial advantages than Tampa Bay is. Tampa Bay has smart management. They use everything they can. Like hiding Kucherov on LTIR. Meanwhile, we just gift players like Zack Kassian rich 4 year deals without using any sort of argument to take a discount.

I said the tax advantage is not as big. Yes it exists. But only counts for half of the games. When they play a game in California, they get taxed for that game under California state taxes. Your napkin math is just a wild guess, because athlete taxes are extremely complicated. They are foreigners earning income in a country. Some earn it through bonuses, some do not.

We have advantages here too. We just don’t realize they are there.



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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787435 is a reply to message #787431 ]
Wed, 09 June 2021 09:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 09 June 2021 09:07

smyth260 wrote on Wed, 09 June 2021 08:42

The tax advantage not as big as people make it sound in my opinion. It’s not as cut and dry as people think. Their state tax only applies only to home games. But when you add bonuses, it gets messy.

Players in Canada get paid in USD. Those dollars go farther here. Players in Canada get way more endorsement opportunities if they want it. These are the arguments that Canadian GMs should be making that they do not.



You are kidding me right about the taxes not being an an advantage in Florida vs anywhere else? It's a fact, their taxes are significantly less and in Canada and many other states.

Other evidence. After the 18-19 season Kucherov won the Art ross, Hart and Lindsay. So his contract leverage probably wouldn't be ANY higher after that season. He signs for 9.5 mill. Which puts him a tie for 16th in cap hit. After, Matthews signs for 11.6 mill, Marner 10.9. Both those 2 are really, really good players. Do either of them have a better resume than Kucherov? NO. Matthews signed his deal 7 months after Kucherov, is he 2 mill better than Kucherov? No chance. But he makes 2 mill more in cap hit in market that as you say should have more endorsements opportunities than Tampa. Panarin was a UFA, makes 11.6 mill. New York is I think the biggest city in North America, one of the most famous. The Rangers are a pretty big deal in New Yoro so you have to think the endorsement opportunities would be big for Panarin. He is really, really good too but he doesn't have a resume like Kucherov yet me makes 2 mill more.

All of Canada has higher taxes than Florida, New York is supposed to have higher taxes. California is supposed to have higher taxes. So if taxes are not a factor, how do you explain Kucherov totally fine with Kucherov taking a 2 mill haircut over players he's at least as good if not better than?


It's not just taxes. It's GMing.

At one point the Oilers had better a better tax situation than all but the tax free states - so call us 7th or 8th in the league. Did you ever hear the Oilers highlighting that to free agents? I don't know if guys like Lowe and Tambellini ever even thought of that.

The Lightning have also made a strong pitch to all their players that they're better off if everyone takes less. Tax makes that a little easier to swallow, but both Stamkos and Hedman turned down UFA status and the ability to make top dollar whereever to sign in Tampa for well below what they could make - even tax-adjusted. Stamkos was a week away from UFA in a class where he was clearly the cream of the crop. He would have been able to get at least the same deal Tavares did a year later (and Tavares is on record saying he turned down more from other teams). Unlike Tavares, he signed a deal that is relatively stable for the life of the deal, while Tavares got a back-diving deal paying him $15MM+ in those first seasons.

The team has presented to those players a reason to stay and to leave money on the table. The Oilers had that opportunity the year they signed Connor McDavid. They even told the story about McDavid's camp offering money back rather than taking Chia for all he's worth. The same summer we overpaid Kris Russell and Eric Gryba.

Good GMs are strategic about these sort of things and point to things like the New England Patriots - you can tell your players that they're still going to make a really good living, but that leaving money on the table is worth it if it helps you win Stanley Cups or Super Bowls. Present it right and you can get people to buy in...so long as you don't turn around and over-spend on some third line defenceman or depth forward because "he's a good soldier". It has to be consistent. Everyone takes a bit of a hit for the greater good.



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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787438 is a reply to message #787435 ]
Wed, 09 June 2021 09:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Wed, 09 June 2021 09:33

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 09 June 2021 09:07

smyth260 wrote on Wed, 09 June 2021 08:42

The tax advantage not as big as people make it sound in my opinion. It’s not as cut and dry as people think. Their state tax only applies only to home games. But when you add bonuses, it gets messy.

Players in Canada get paid in USD. Those dollars go farther here. Players in Canada get way more endorsement opportunities if they want it. These are the arguments that Canadian GMs should be making that they do not.



You are kidding me right about the taxes not being an an advantage in Florida vs anywhere else? It's a fact, their taxes are significantly less and in Canada and many other states.

Other evidence. After the 18-19 season Kucherov won the Art ross, Hart and Lindsay. So his contract leverage probably wouldn't be ANY higher after that season. He signs for 9.5 mill. Which puts him a tie for 16th in cap hit. After, Matthews signs for 11.6 mill, Marner 10.9. Both those 2 are really, really good players. Do either of them have a better resume than Kucherov? NO. Matthews signed his deal 7 months after Kucherov, is he 2 mill better than Kucherov? No chance. But he makes 2 mill more in cap hit in market that as you say should have more endorsements opportunities than Tampa. Panarin was a UFA, makes 11.6 mill. New York is I think the biggest city in North America, one of the most famous. The Rangers are a pretty big deal in New Yoro so you have to think the endorsement opportunities would be big for Panarin. He is really, really good too but he doesn't have a resume like Kucherov yet me makes 2 mill more.

All of Canada has higher taxes than Florida, New York is supposed to have higher taxes. California is supposed to have higher taxes. So if taxes are not a factor, how do you explain Kucherov totally fine with Kucherov taking a 2 mill haircut over players he's at least as good if not better than?


It's not just taxes. It's GMing.

At one point the Oilers had better a better tax situation than all but the tax free states - so call us 7th or 8th in the league. Did you ever hear the Oilers highlighting that to free agents? I don't know if guys like Lowe and Tambellini ever even thought of that.

The Lightning have also made a strong pitch to all their players that they're better off if everyone takes less. Tax makes that a little easier to swallow, but both Stamkos and Hedman turned down UFA status and the ability to make top dollar whereever to sign in Tampa for well below what they could make - even tax-adjusted. Stamkos was a week away from UFA in a class where he was clearly the cream of the crop. He would have been able to get at least the same deal Tavares did a year later (and Tavares is on record saying he turned down more from other teams). Unlike Tavares, he signed a deal that is relatively stable for the life of the deal, while Tavares got a back-diving deal paying him $15MM+ in those first seasons.

The team has presented to those players a reason to stay and to leave money on the table. The Oilers had that opportunity the year they signed Connor McDavid. They even told the story about McDavid's camp offering money back rather than taking Chia for all he's worth. The same summer we overpaid Kris Russell and Eric Gryba.

Good GMs are strategic about these sort of things and point to things like the New England Patriots - you can tell your players that they're still going to make a really good living, but that leaving money on the table is worth it if it helps you win Stanley Cups or Super Bowls. Present it right and you can get people to buy in...so long as you don't turn around and over-spend on some third line defenceman or depth forward because "he's a good soldier". It has to be consistent. Everyone takes a bit of a hit for the greater good.

I am not here sticking up for Oilers GM, so let's get that straight first. But not every thing comes down to "good GMing". Otherwise, basically you are saying in my opinion that every team in the league has a crap GM except Tampa? I don't see how that is possible. Does Colorado have a crappy GM? Rantanen makes 9.25 mill. 250K under Kucherov. Rantanen is a hell of a player but is he as good as Kucherov? I would say no. He doesn't have a Art Ross, Hart or Lindsay. So Sakic must be a lousy GM because he signed a lesser player to almost the same money as Kucherov.



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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787440 is a reply to message #787438 ]
Wed, 09 June 2021 10:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 09 June 2021 09:51

Adam wrote on Wed, 09 June 2021 09:33

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 09 June 2021 09:07

smyth260 wrote on Wed, 09 June 2021 08:42

The tax advantage not as big as people make it sound in my opinion. It’s not as cut and dry as people think. Their state tax only applies only to home games. But when you add bonuses, it gets messy.

Players in Canada get paid in USD. Those dollars go farther here. Players in Canada get way more endorsement opportunities if they want it. These are the arguments that Canadian GMs should be making that they do not.



You are kidding me right about the taxes not being an an advantage in Florida vs anywhere else? It's a fact, their taxes are significantly less and in Canada and many other states.

Other evidence. After the 18-19 season Kucherov won the Art ross, Hart and Lindsay. So his contract leverage probably wouldn't be ANY higher after that season. He signs for 9.5 mill. Which puts him a tie for 16th in cap hit. After, Matthews signs for 11.6 mill, Marner 10.9. Both those 2 are really, really good players. Do either of them have a better resume than Kucherov? NO. Matthews signed his deal 7 months after Kucherov, is he 2 mill better than Kucherov? No chance. But he makes 2 mill more in cap hit in market that as you say should have more endorsements opportunities than Tampa. Panarin was a UFA, makes 11.6 mill. New York is I think the biggest city in North America, one of the most famous. The Rangers are a pretty big deal in New Yoro so you have to think the endorsement opportunities would be big for Panarin. He is really, really good too but he doesn't have a resume like Kucherov yet me makes 2 mill more.

All of Canada has higher taxes than Florida, New York is supposed to have higher taxes. California is supposed to have higher taxes. So if taxes are not a factor, how do you explain Kucherov totally fine with Kucherov taking a 2 mill haircut over players he's at least as good if not better than?


It's not just taxes. It's GMing.

At one point the Oilers had better a better tax situation than all but the tax free states - so call us 7th or 8th in the league. Did you ever hear the Oilers highlighting that to free agents? I don't know if guys like Lowe and Tambellini ever even thought of that.

The Lightning have also made a strong pitch to all their players that they're better off if everyone takes less. Tax makes that a little easier to swallow, but both Stamkos and Hedman turned down UFA status and the ability to make top dollar whereever to sign in Tampa for well below what they could make - even tax-adjusted. Stamkos was a week away from UFA in a class where he was clearly the cream of the crop. He would have been able to get at least the same deal Tavares did a year later (and Tavares is on record saying he turned down more from other teams). Unlike Tavares, he signed a deal that is relatively stable for the life of the deal, while Tavares got a back-diving deal paying him $15MM+ in those first seasons.

The team has presented to those players a reason to stay and to leave money on the table. The Oilers had that opportunity the year they signed Connor McDavid. They even told the story about McDavid's camp offering money back rather than taking Chia for all he's worth. The same summer we overpaid Kris Russell and Eric Gryba.

Good GMs are strategic about these sort of things and point to things like the New England Patriots - you can tell your players that they're still going to make a really good living, but that leaving money on the table is worth it if it helps you win Stanley Cups or Super Bowls. Present it right and you can get people to buy in...so long as you don't turn around and over-spend on some third line defenceman or depth forward because "he's a good soldier". It has to be consistent. Everyone takes a bit of a hit for the greater good.

I am not here sticking up for Oilers GM, so let's get that straight first. But not every thing comes down to "good GMing". Otherwise, basically you are saying in my opinion that every team in the league has a crap GM except Tampa? I don't see how that is possible. Does Colorado have a crappy GM? Rantanen makes 9.25 mill. 250K under Kucherov. Rantanen is a hell of a player but is he as good as Kucherov? I would say no. He doesn't have a Art Ross, Hart or Lindsay. So Sakic must be a lousy GM because he signed a lesser player to almost the same money as Kucherov.

I've heard that contract structure, as well as the way the players deal with their money, can greatly reduce the tax differences.

Also, it's always about GM skill when it comes to Edmonton. The team has literally NEVER done a proper GM search, unless they did one in the WHA or when Sather was brought on board. KLowe was gifted the position after proving he was a below average coach for a year. Tambo was just anointed so they could make Kevin POHO or whatever his next title was. MacT was a good buddy hire. Chia was a snap decision and then, after a decade of incompetence, they just decided to throw the bank at Holland based on his winning championships with a Hall of Fame roster and no salary cap (save 2008).

Holland had red flags in the past decade of his work, some of which (Kassian contract) have cropped up again already. This summer is it for the Oilers' window. Bad, longterm decisions during this UFA period will basically take us to the end of McD's contract. I'm not certain he can't do it, I mean, he managed to trade lucic, but I'm not 100% sure he can either.



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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787448 is a reply to message #787431 ]
Wed, 09 June 2021 11:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 09 June 2021 08:07


Other evidence. After the 18-19 season Kucherov won the Art ross, Hart and Lindsay. So his contract leverage probably wouldn't be ANY higher after that season. He signs for 9.5 mill. Which puts him a tie for 16th in cap hit. After, Matthews signs for 11.6 mill, Marner 10.9. Both those 2 are really, really good players. Do either of them have a better resume than Kucherov? NO. Matthews signed his deal 7 months after Kucherov, is he 2 mill better than Kucherov? No chance. But he makes 2 mill more in cap hit in market that as you say should have more endorsements opportunities than Tampa. Panarin was a UFA, makes 11.6 mill. New York is I think the biggest city in North America, one of the most famous. The Rangers are a pretty big deal in New Yoro so you have to think the endorsement opportunities would be big for Panarin. He is really, really good too but he doesn't have a resume like Kucherov yet me makes 2 mill more.

All of Canada has higher taxes than Florida, New York is supposed to have higher taxes. California is supposed to have higher taxes. So if taxes are not a factor, how do you explain Kucherov totally fine with Kucherov taking a 2 mill haircut over players he's at least as good if not better than?


This isn't quite correct. Kucherov's deal started in 19/20 but he signed it in July of 2018, prior to winning the Hart, etc. He was still coming off of a 100 point season, but not the 128 point season that he put up the following year.

https://www.capfriendly.com/players/nikita-kucherov



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17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787456 is a reply to message #787448 ]
Wed, 09 June 2021 11:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Goose wrote on Wed, 09 June 2021 11:18

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 09 June 2021 08:07


Other evidence. After the 18-19 season Kucherov won the Art ross, Hart and Lindsay. So his contract leverage probably wouldn't be ANY higher after that season. He signs for 9.5 mill. Which puts him a tie for 16th in cap hit. After, Matthews signs for 11.6 mill, Marner 10.9. Both those 2 are really, really good players. Do either of them have a better resume than Kucherov? NO. Matthews signed his deal 7 months after Kucherov, is he 2 mill better than Kucherov? No chance. But he makes 2 mill more in cap hit in market that as you say should have more endorsements opportunities than Tampa. Panarin was a UFA, makes 11.6 mill. New York is I think the biggest city in North America, one of the most famous. The Rangers are a pretty big deal in New Yoro so you have to think the endorsement opportunities would be big for Panarin. He is really, really good too but he doesn't have a resume like Kucherov yet me makes 2 mill more.

All of Canada has higher taxes than Florida, New York is supposed to have higher taxes. California is supposed to have higher taxes. So if taxes are not a factor, how do you explain Kucherov totally fine with Kucherov taking a 2 mill haircut over players he's at least as good if not better than?


This isn't quite correct. Kucherov's deal started in 19/20 but he signed it in July of 2018, prior to winning the Hart, etc. He was still coming off of a 100 point season, but not the 128 point season that he put up the following year.

https://www.capfriendly.com/players/nikita-kucherov


Kuch was far more deserving of the 2018 Hart than the person who won it, that's for damn sure. What a travesty that award was.



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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787467 is a reply to message #787448 ]
Wed, 09 June 2021 12:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Goose wrote on Wed, 09 June 2021 11:18

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 09 June 2021 08:07


Other evidence. After the 18-19 season Kucherov won the Art ross, Hart and Lindsay. So his contract leverage probably wouldn't be ANY higher after that season. He signs for 9.5 mill. Which puts him a tie for 16th in cap hit. After, Matthews signs for 11.6 mill, Marner 10.9. Both those 2 are really, really good players. Do either of them have a better resume than Kucherov? NO. Matthews signed his deal 7 months after Kucherov, is he 2 mill better than Kucherov? No chance. But he makes 2 mill more in cap hit in market that as you say should have more endorsements opportunities than Tampa. Panarin was a UFA, makes 11.6 mill. New York is I think the biggest city in North America, one of the most famous. The Rangers are a pretty big deal in New Yoro so you have to think the endorsement opportunities would be big for Panarin. He is really, really good too but he doesn't have a resume like Kucherov yet me makes 2 mill more.

All of Canada has higher taxes than Florida, New York is supposed to have higher taxes. California is supposed to have higher taxes. So if taxes are not a factor, how do you explain Kucherov totally fine with Kucherov taking a 2 mill haircut over players he's at least as good if not better than?


This isn't quite correct. Kucherov's deal started in 19/20 but he signed it in July of 2018, prior to winning the Hart, etc. He was still coming off of a 100 point season, but not the 128 point season that he put up the following year.

https://www.capfriendly.com/players/nikita-kucherov

I see that now. I saw the contract kicking in for the 19-20 season but didn't see the signing date of July 2018. He won all those trophies at the end of the 18-19 season.
16-17 85pts in 74 games so a 94 pt pace
17-18 100 pts in 80.
Signed the deal.
18-19 128pts in 82
19-20 85pt in 68 games so a 103 pace.

Matthews in comparison:
17-18 63pts in 62 so 83 pt pace.
18-19 73pts in 68 so 88 pt pace.
Signed the deal in Feb 2019.
19-20 when it kicked in: 80 pts in 70 so 94 pts.
20-21: 66 pts in 52 games so 104 pt pace.

So going into the contract a few years before, Kucherov scored more. He scored more the year he signed it. Scored significantly more right after signing it. In 230 games since 17-18, Kucherov had 113 goals, 313 pts. Matthews in the same time had 159 goals, 282 pts in 252 games. Now Kucherov played no regular season games this year but it sure seems like Tampa is getting much better production for 2 mill less.

I am not a tax expert, I don't know what all they pay but it would be interesting too see what Matthews take home is vs Kucherov and if they are close. All I know is Kucherov is making 2 mill less while not scoring as many goals but scorign more points. doesn't score as many



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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787469 is a reply to message #787467 ]
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 09 June 2021 12:33

Goose wrote on Wed, 09 June 2021 11:18

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 09 June 2021 08:07


Other evidence. After the 18-19 season Kucherov won the Art ross, Hart and Lindsay. So his contract leverage probably wouldn't be ANY higher after that season. He signs for 9.5 mill. Which puts him a tie for 16th in cap hit. After, Matthews signs for 11.6 mill, Marner 10.9. Both those 2 are really, really good players. Do either of them have a better resume than Kucherov? NO. Matthews signed his deal 7 months after Kucherov, is he 2 mill better than Kucherov? No chance. But he makes 2 mill more in cap hit in market that as you say should have more endorsements opportunities than Tampa. Panarin was a UFA, makes 11.6 mill. New York is I think the biggest city in North America, one of the most famous. The Rangers are a pretty big deal in New Yoro so you have to think the endorsement opportunities would be big for Panarin. He is really, really good too but he doesn't have a resume like Kucherov yet me makes 2 mill more.

All of Canada has higher taxes than Florida, New York is supposed to have higher taxes. California is supposed to have higher taxes. So if taxes are not a factor, how do you explain Kucherov totally fine with Kucherov taking a 2 mill haircut over players he's at least as good if not better than?


This isn't quite correct. Kucherov's deal started in 19/20 but he signed it in July of 2018, prior to winning the Hart, etc. He was still coming off of a 100 point season, but not the 128 point season that he put up the following year.

https://www.capfriendly.com/players/nikita-kucherov

I see that now. I saw the contract kicking in for the 19-20 season but didn't see the signing date of July 2018. He won all those trophies at the end of the 18-19 season.
16-17 85pts in 74 games so a 94 pt pace
17-18 100 pts in 80.
Signed the deal.
18-19 128pts in 82
19-20 85pt in 68 games so a 103 pace.

Matthews in comparison:
17-18 63pts in 62 so 83 pt pace.
18-19 73pts in 68 so 88 pt pace.
Signed the deal in Feb 2019.
19-20 when it kicked in: 80 pts in 70 so 94 pts.
20-21: 66 pts in 52 games so 104 pt pace.

So going into the contract a few years before, Kucherov scored more. He scored more the year he signed it. Scored significantly more right after signing it. In 230 games since 17-18, Kucherov had 113 goals, 313 pts. Matthews in the same time had 159 goals, 282 pts in 252 games. Now Kucherov played no regular season games this year but it sure seems like Tampa is getting much better production for 2 mill less.

I am not a tax expert, I don't know what all they pay but it would be interesting too see what Matthews take home is vs Kucherov and if they are close. All I know is Kucherov is making 2 mill less while not scoring as many goals but scorign more points. doesn't score as many



You know what, you're right. Tampa DOES have a competent general manager!



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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787470 is a reply to message #787469 ]
Wed, 09 June 2021 14:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Wed, 09 June 2021 14:23

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 09 June 2021 12:33

Goose wrote on Wed, 09 June 2021 11:18

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 09 June 2021 08:07


Other evidence. After the 18-19 season Kucherov won the Art ross, Hart and Lindsay. So his contract leverage probably wouldn't be ANY higher after that season. He signs for 9.5 mill. Which puts him a tie for 16th in cap hit. After, Matthews signs for 11.6 mill, Marner 10.9. Both those 2 are really, really good players. Do either of them have a better resume than Kucherov? NO. Matthews signed his deal 7 months after Kucherov, is he 2 mill better than Kucherov? No chance. But he makes 2 mill more in cap hit in market that as you say should have more endorsements opportunities than Tampa. Panarin was a UFA, makes 11.6 mill. New York is I think the biggest city in North America, one of the most famous. The Rangers are a pretty big deal in New Yoro so you have to think the endorsement opportunities would be big for Panarin. He is really, really good too but he doesn't have a resume like Kucherov yet me makes 2 mill more.

All of Canada has higher taxes than Florida, New York is supposed to have higher taxes. California is supposed to have higher taxes. So if taxes are not a factor, how do you explain Kucherov totally fine with Kucherov taking a 2 mill haircut over players he's at least as good if not better than?


This isn't quite correct. Kucherov's deal started in 19/20 but he signed it in July of 2018, prior to winning the Hart, etc. He was still coming off of a 100 point season, but not the 128 point season that he put up the following year.

https://www.capfriendly.com/players/nikita-kucherov

I see that now. I saw the contract kicking in for the 19-20 season but didn't see the signing date of July 2018. He won all those trophies at the end of the 18-19 season.
16-17 85pts in 74 games so a 94 pt pace
17-18 100 pts in 80.
Signed the deal.
18-19 128pts in 82
19-20 85pt in 68 games so a 103 pace.

Matthews in comparison:
17-18 63pts in 62 so 83 pt pace.
18-19 73pts in 68 so 88 pt pace.
Signed the deal in Feb 2019.
19-20 when it kicked in: 80 pts in 70 so 94 pts.
20-21: 66 pts in 52 games so 104 pt pace.

So going into the contract a few years before, Kucherov scored more. He scored more the year he signed it. Scored significantly more right after signing it. In 230 games since 17-18, Kucherov had 113 goals, 313 pts. Matthews in the same time had 159 goals, 282 pts in 252 games. Now Kucherov played no regular season games this year but it sure seems like Tampa is getting much better production for 2 mill less.

I am not a tax expert, I don't know what all they pay but it would be interesting too see what Matthews take home is vs Kucherov and if they are close. All I know is Kucherov is making 2 mill less while not scoring as many goals but scorign more points. doesn't score as many



You know what, you're right. Tampa DOES have a competent general manager!

So since Tampa is the gold standard, how can the Oilers cheat to be on their level? They are 17.34 mill over the cap. "LTIR". Of course no cap in the playoffs and Kucherov who leads the playoffs in scoring and his 9.5 mill doesn't count miraculously was recovered for game 1.

Klefbom is an automatic. He already has the built in excuse. So get him to take the year off. He can train, maybe sneak in some men's league games in Sweden to get ready. Get Katz to slip him a mill or 2 to keep his mouth shut and if he is ever interview go into a fake rant about the pain he's in. Use his LTIR money to get a another dman, then MIRACLE!!!! He's healed for the playoffs and he can bump out Jones for the 3rd pairing spot.

Go find the real like version of Doc Nick Riviera from the simpsons. Then ask Neal what's his number to fake something. Skin condition. Lingering covid effects. He's sprained his ankle a few times last year. Maybe arthritis in that ankle. Get him out for the year. Then playoffs come. MIRACLE!!

[Updated on: Wed, 09 June 2021 15:02]


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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787436 is a reply to message #787410 ]
Wed, 09 June 2021 09:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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inverno76 wrote on Tue, 08 June 2021 15:06

I do not think either of this years top goalies will slip to us, but I would be okay with us drafting either one of them. Truthfully, a goalie might have a quicker path to the NHL in Edmonton than on any other team in the NHL. One extra year of junior, one in the minors and if they are trending up then I could see a guy getting an opportunity.

If Konovolov played in the AHL this year and did well, I would expect him to audition for a job next camp. Heck, he might even get a push without a year in the AHL if we have some goalie issues next year and he is playing well in a half season of Condors hockey.

I'd love to have Spencer Knight coming up. I would not do the Panthers plan and draft a guy 10th overall after dishing out a long term 10M AAV to a UFA though.


My prediction? Even if he puts up numbers, Konovalov has an uphill battle to make the league because of the big goalie bias. Teams all want the 6'6 guy now and it's really hard for a short goalie to win over coaches. They just look at him between the pipes and see more space, even if he covers that space well. It is one of the reasons why Halak has almost always been a back-up, despite pretty consistently good numbers.

This is from a couple years back, but it's still a good illustration:
https://gooddeedseats.com/all-starting-nhl-goalie-heights/

At 5'11, Konovalov would be the shortest starter in the league.



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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787545 is a reply to message #787436 ]
Thu, 10 June 2021 12:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Wed, 09 June 2021 09:38

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 08 June 2021 15:06

I do not think either of this years top goalies will slip to us, but I would be okay with us drafting either one of them. Truthfully, a goalie might have a quicker path to the NHL in Edmonton than on any other team in the NHL. One extra year of junior, one in the minors and if they are trending up then I could see a guy getting an opportunity.

If Konovolov played in the AHL this year and did well, I would expect him to audition for a job next camp. Heck, he might even get a push without a year in the AHL if we have some goalie issues next year and he is playing well in a half season of Condors hockey.

I'd love to have Spencer Knight coming up. I would not do the Panthers plan and draft a guy 10th overall after dishing out a long term 10M AAV to a UFA though.


My prediction? Even if he puts up numbers, Konovalov has an uphill battle to make the league because of the big goalie bias. Teams all want the 6'6 guy now and it's really hard for a short goalie to win over coaches. They just look at him between the pipes and see more space, even if he covers that space well. It is one of the reasons why Halak has almost always been a back-up, despite pretty consistently good numbers.

This is from a couple years back, but it's still a good illustration:
https://gooddeedseats.com/all-starting-nhl-goalie-heights/

At 5'11, Konovalov would be the shortest starter in the league.


Juuse Saros seems to be getting a bit of love too as of late and the NHL is a copycat league so this might buy him some consideration, but I agree, there is a bias to large goalies who fill up space.

Past history dictates that if Konvolov is a success story, it will not be with Edmonton. I do not believe we have forward thinkers. I could see Konvolov succeeding after he left the organization and then Edmonton looking for a similar player in free agency and future drafts.



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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787678 is a reply to message #786407 ]
Mon, 14 June 2021 12:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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This is my favorite reply to Matheson saying Dougie Hamilton is one dimensional:

https://twitter.com/__JamesWood__/status/1404492194833219589 ?s=20



You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787730 is a reply to message #787678 ]
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So what's going to happen in Vegas with their goalies if they win with Fleury?

36 year old Fleury will have a year left at $7M. 29 year old Lehner will have 4 years left at $5M.

Obviously the plan was to move on from Fleury when they signed Lehner, but could they really trade MAF, or worse leave him unprotected after the year he had both in the regular season and playoffs?

Where they both have only NTC and not NMC, either can be left exposed, right?



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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787734 is a reply to message #787730 ]
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Mike wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 07:13

So what's going to happen in Vegas with their goalies if they win with Fleury?

36 year old Fleury will have a year left at $7M. 29 year old Lehner will have 4 years left at $5M.

Obviously the plan was to move on from Fleury when they signed Lehner, but could they really trade MAF, or worse leave him unprotected after the year he had both in the regular season and playoffs?

Where they both have only NTC and not NMC, either can be left exposed, right?


You have to stick with Lehner, don't you? Gives you more security for longer and he's a lot younger. There's a chance that Seattle balks on Fleury's age and dollars, and no chance they do with Lehner. Besides, if you leave Fleury unprotected, Alan Walsh can tweet this again:

https://lvsportsbiz.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/fleuryagent.png



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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787737 is a reply to message #787734 ]
Tue, 15 June 2021 10:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 09:04

Mike wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 07:13

So what's going to happen in Vegas with their goalies if they win with Fleury?

36 year old Fleury will have a year left at $7M. 29 year old Lehner will have 4 years left at $5M.

Obviously the plan was to move on from Fleury when they signed Lehner, but could they really trade MAF, or worse leave him unprotected after the year he had both in the regular season and playoffs?

Where they both have only NTC and not NMC, either can be left exposed, right?


You have to stick with Lehner, don't you? Gives you more security for longer and he's a lot younger. There's a chance that Seattle balks on Fleury's age and dollars, and no chance they do with Lehner. Besides, if you leave Fleury unprotected, Alan Walsh can tweet this again:

https://lvsportsbiz.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/fleuryagent.png

Vegas doesn't have to give somebody up to Seattle.



You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787744 is a reply to message #787737 ]
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 13:39

Adam wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 09:04

Mike wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 07:13

So what's going to happen in Vegas with their goalies if they win with Fleury?

36 year old Fleury will have a year left at $7M. 29 year old Lehner will have 4 years left at $5M.

Obviously the plan was to move on from Fleury when they signed Lehner, but could they really trade MAF, or worse leave him unprotected after the year he had both in the regular season and playoffs?

Where they both have only NTC and not NMC, either can be left exposed, right?


You have to stick with Lehner, don't you? Gives you more security for longer and he's a lot younger. There's a chance that Seattle balks on Fleury's age and dollars, and no chance they do with Lehner. Besides, if you leave Fleury unprotected, Alan Walsh can tweet this again:

https://lvsportsbiz.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/fleuryagent.png

Vegas doesn't have to give somebody up to Seattle.


Oh crap - that's right. The greatest regular season and playoff team of all time is exempt. Totally forgot.



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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787732 is a reply to message #787678 ]
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Mon, 14 June 2021 12:07

This is my favorite reply to Matheson saying Dougie Hamilton is one dimensional:

https://twitter.com/__JamesWood__/status/1404492194833219589 ?s=20

I like Hamilton, I don't think he gets Pietrangelo money or term but I think someone will give him a 6 or 7 yr deal and he probably get pushing 8 mill. With Nurse needing an extension and I think he's pretty darn important to that team especially to the big boys, I don't think you can have 2 big money dmen plus 2 big money forwards.

I think whatever Hamilton will get would be better served to be used to bring in a couple of forwards.



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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787742 is a reply to message #787732 ]
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 08:36

CrudeRemarks wrote on Mon, 14 June 2021 12:07

This is my favorite reply to Matheson saying Dougie Hamilton is one dimensional:

https://twitter.com/__JamesWood__/status/1404492194833219589 ?s=20

I like Hamilton, I don't think he gets Pietrangelo money or term but I think someone will give him a 6 or 7 yr deal and he probably get pushing 8 mill. With Nurse needing an extension and I think he's pretty darn important to that team especially to the big boys, I don't think you can have 2 big money dmen plus 2 big money forwards.

I think whatever Hamilton will get would be better served to be used to bring in a couple of forwards.


They could sign him and Nurse if they walked away from both Barrie and Larsson, and went with Bouchard, Broberg, and Jones.



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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787747 is a reply to message #787742 ]
Tue, 15 June 2021 11:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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NetBOG wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 10:55

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 08:36

CrudeRemarks wrote on Mon, 14 June 2021 12:07

This is my favorite reply to Matheson saying Dougie Hamilton is one dimensional:

https://twitter.com/__JamesWood__/status/1404492194833219589 ?s=20

I like Hamilton, I don't think he gets Pietrangelo money or term but I think someone will give him a 6 or 7 yr deal and he probably get pushing 8 mill. With Nurse needing an extension and I think he's pretty darn important to that team especially to the big boys, I don't think you can have 2 big money dmen plus 2 big money forwards.

I think whatever Hamilton will get would be better served to be used to bring in a couple of forwards.


They could sign him and Nurse if they walked away from both Barrie and Larsson, and went with Bouchard, Broberg, and Jones.

Am I missing something? Do the Oilers have a huge need on the right side that I am not aware of?

I am assuming they sign Larsson who deserves a contract and he would be the right side guy on the second pairing.
I assume Bear has 1 spot on the right.
Bouchard would have the other spot and would take over the offensive role that Barrie had.

The Oilers need a 4 mill left shot guy, not an 8 mill right shot PP QB.



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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787748 is a reply to message #787747 ]
Tue, 15 June 2021 11:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 11:29

NetBOG wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 10:55

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 08:36

CrudeRemarks wrote on Mon, 14 June 2021 12:07

This is my favorite reply to Matheson saying Dougie Hamilton is one dimensional:

https://twitter.com/__JamesWood__/status/1404492194833219589 ?s=20

I like Hamilton, I don't think he gets Pietrangelo money or term but I think someone will give him a 6 or 7 yr deal and he probably get pushing 8 mill. With Nurse needing an extension and I think he's pretty darn important to that team especially to the big boys, I don't think you can have 2 big money dmen plus 2 big money forwards.

I think whatever Hamilton will get would be better served to be used to bring in a couple of forwards.


They could sign him and Nurse if they walked away from both Barrie and Larsson, and went with Bouchard, Broberg, and Jones.

Am I missing something? Do the Oilers have a huge need on the right side that I am not aware of?

I am assuming they sign Larsson who deserves a contract and he would be the right side guy on the second pairing.
I assume Bear has 1 spot on the right.
Bouchard would have the other spot and would take over the offensive role that Barrie had.

The Oilers need a 4 mill left shot guy, not an 8 mill right shot PP QB.


If they were to get Hamilton, I think they end up selling low on Bear to bring in a guy like DeBrusk.



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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787749 is a reply to message #786407 ]
Tue, 15 June 2021 11:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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I really don't think the Oilers are getting Dougie Hamilton. This will upset a lot of people who will blame the Oilers management, but I just can't see him signing here.

And honestly, the reason against signing Barrie is that there a) isn't money, and b) Bouchard is NHL-ready. Hamilton may be better than Barrie, but those same arguments kind of remain for either of them.



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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787750 is a reply to message #787749 ]
Tue, 15 June 2021 11:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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mightyreasoner wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 11:38

I really don't think the Oilers are getting Dougie Hamilton. This will upset a lot of people who will blame the Oilers management, but I just can't see him signing here.

And honestly, the reason against signing Barrie is that there a) isn't money, and b) Bouchard is NHL-ready. Hamilton may be better than Barrie, but those same arguments kind of remain for either of them.

I totally agree. Barrie had one hell of a year and is going to get a big raise. I could see him getting in the range of what Krug got last year. Maybe not as many years but I could see 5 yrs at 5 - 6 mill.

I have seen even though he was pretty good for the Oilers and seemed to fit in quite well, for months people have been ripping into Barrie and saying no way can the Oilers resign him for the reasons you mentioned. So giving Barrie 5-6 mill is a bad idea but it's totally fine to give Hamilton 7-8 mill? I get Hamilton is a bit better but I don't get how it makes zero sense to sign him. So if a person isn't worried about the money or putting a roadblock in front of Bouchard, why not save some money and reup Barrie? Reup Barrie and put him and Nurse together who for the most part were pretty decent and chances are with another year under the system and playing together, they could get better as a pair. Then get a 3-4 mill left shot guy to play with Larsson and there is your top 4.

So for the cost of say 9-9.5 you could get 2 dmen (Barrie & new guy)and have a decent top 4, vs just signing Hamilton and being just under what you paid for 2 guys. On top of having Nurse and whoever and Hamilton and a rookie in Broberg or Jones who right now doesn't look like more than maybe a #6.

[Updated on: Tue, 15 June 2021 11:51]


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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787752 is a reply to message #787750 ]
Tue, 15 June 2021 11:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 11:46

mightyreasoner wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 11:38

I really don't think the Oilers are getting Dougie Hamilton. This will upset a lot of people who will blame the Oilers management, but I just can't see him signing here.

And honestly, the reason against signing Barrie is that there a) isn't money, and b) Bouchard is NHL-ready. Hamilton may be better than Barrie, but those same arguments kind of remain for either of them.

I totally agree. Barrie had one hell of a year and is going to get a big raise. I could see him getting in the range of what Krug got last year. Maybe not as many years but I could see 5 yrs at 5 - 6 mill.

I have seen even though he was pretty good for the Oilers and seemed to fit in quite well, for months people have been ripping into Barrie and saying no way can the Oilers resign him for the reasons you mentioned. So giving Barrie 5-6 mill is a bad idea but it's totally fine to give Hamilton 7-8 mill? I get Hamilton is a bit better but I don't get how it makes zero sense to sign him. So if a person isn't worried about the money or putting a roadblock in front of Bouchard, why not save some money and reup Barrie? Reup Barrie and put him and Nurse together who for the most part were pretty decent and chances are with another year under the system and playing together, they could get better as a pair. Then get a 3-4 mill left shot guy to play with Larsson and there is your top 4.

So for the cost of say 9-9.5 you could get 2 dmen and have a decent top 4, vs just signing Hamilton and being just under what you paid for 2 guys.


Don't think I would equate these 2 players. Barrie didn't really drive any offense here, he was carried and he's going to be paid very well for riding the McDrai wave. Good for him, but Hamilton actually does drive offense for his team and makes other players he plays with perform better. He is worth that premium and would help our team a heck of a lot. Having Nurse and Hamilton both being able to anchor a D pair would do wonders for our team (assuming Nurse keeps improving).

Barrie would never be able to carry a D pair. He needs to be sheltered by someone way better defensively than him. Hamilton could actually play a part in trying to help our weak depth get on the attack more.

[Updated on: Tue, 15 June 2021 11:56]


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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787751 is a reply to message #787749 ]
Tue, 15 June 2021 11:52 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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mightyreasoner wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 11:38

I really don't think the Oilers are getting Dougie Hamilton. This will upset a lot of people who will blame the Oilers management, but I just can't see him signing here.

And honestly, the reason against signing Barrie is that there a) isn't money, and b) Bouchard is NHL-ready. Hamilton may be better than Barrie, but those same arguments kind of remain for either of them.


While I think Hamilton may be as good or better of a fit than Barrie, I agree. He should get big dollars from someone this summer, and I'm A) not sure the Oilers can afford to spend that and B) think that RD is probably not the spot in the roster to blow your brains out on this summer.

That said, if you could get Hamilton on a reasonable contract, I'd let Larsson walk and happily move forward with a Hamilton/Bear/Bouchard RD.

It really is too bad that Chiarelli wasn't able to convince his old pals in Boston to give up Hamilton in 2015. That team would have looked a lot better then, and it would have been a lot easier to swallow giving up the Barzal pick for Hamilton than for Reinhart...



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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787753 is a reply to message #787751 ]
Tue, 15 June 2021 12:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 11:52

mightyreasoner wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 11:38

I really don't think the Oilers are getting Dougie Hamilton. This will upset a lot of people who will blame the Oilers management, but I just can't see him signing here.

And honestly, the reason against signing Barrie is that there a) isn't money, and b) Bouchard is NHL-ready. Hamilton may be better than Barrie, but those same arguments kind of remain for either of them.


While I think Hamilton may be as good or better of a fit than Barrie, I agree. He should get big dollars from someone this summer, and I'm A) not sure the Oilers can afford to spend that and B) think that RD is probably not the spot in the roster to blow your brains out on this summer.

That said, if you could get Hamilton on a reasonable contract, I'd let Larsson walk and happily move forward with a Hamilton/Bear/Bouchard RD.

It really is too bad that Chiarelli wasn't able to convince his old pals in Boston to give up Hamilton in 2015. That team would have looked a lot better then, and it would have been a lot easier to swallow giving up the Barzal pick for Hamilton than for Reinhart...

I thought the report was Chia offered the Bruins a much better picks package than the Flames but they refused to trade with him and choose the lesser package from the Flames?



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