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 Oilers » Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers Pages (4): [ «  <  1  2  3  4  >  »]
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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #783338 is a reply to message #783334 ]
Wed, 21 April 2021 15:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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inverno76 wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 15:15

The Barrie signing turned as good as it possibly could have, but with all that being said I have very little confidence in him when he’s on the ice.

Thank you for your service and you’ll be a great trivia question in 10 years.

If the Oilers don't keep Barrie, do you have confidence in their ability to find a suitable replacement for what he provides? I don't. Especially considering their narrowing Stanley Cup window.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #783345 is a reply to message #783338 ]
Wed, 21 April 2021 17:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76 is currently offline inverno76
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CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 15:32

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 15:15

The Barrie signing turned as good as it possibly could have, but with all that being said I have very little confidence in him when he’s on the ice.

Thank you for your service and you’ll be a great trivia question in 10 years.

If the Oilers don't keep Barrie, do you have confidence in their ability to find a suitable replacement for what he provides? I don't. Especially considering their narrowing Stanley Cup window.


I think Nurse splitting time with Bouchard will replace Barrie’s PP time and if Kulikov comes as advertised, then I’d much rather see him or an equivalent paired with a young puck mover like Bear or Bouchard at 5v5.

Barrie has been a tire fire as of late during even strength and when he’s playing well he was good, not great. Not giving the kids a shot and investing in Barrie long term contradicts the way we drafted. Let the kids play. The ELC savings can go towards a top line winger. My 2 cents. All being said, I’m a government worker who thinks he’s a GM at times. I know very little and my greatest resource is the eye test and following stats.





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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #783351 is a reply to message #783345 ]
Wed, 21 April 2021 19:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm is currently offline Oscargasm
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inverno76 wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 17:50

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 15:32

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 15:15

The Barrie signing turned as good as it possibly could have, but with all that being said I have very little confidence in him when he’s on the ice.

Thank you for your service and you’ll be a great trivia question in 10 years.

If the Oilers don't keep Barrie, do you have confidence in their ability to find a suitable replacement for what he provides? I don't. Especially considering their narrowing Stanley Cup window.


I think Nurse splitting time with Bouchard will replace Barrie’s PP time and if Kulikov comes as advertised, then I’d much rather see him or an equivalent paired with a young puck mover like Bear or Bouchard at 5v5.

Barrie has been a tire fire as of late during even strength and when he’s playing well he was good, not great. Not giving the kids a shot and investing in Barrie long term contradicts the way we drafted. Let the kids play. The ELC savings can go towards a top line winger. My 2 cents. All being said, I’m a government worker who thinks he’s a GM at times. I know very little and my greatest resource is the eye test and following stats.






I’d argue the way Holland drafts is the same way I make short ribs. He drafts them (I sear the ribs) before putting them in the minors/Junior/A what have you (I put the ribs in the slow cooker) then lets them overripe (I have some beers... prep the rest of the meal) before bringing them up and giving them the spot their earn (I eat).

Ya. That’s works.

Bear-Larss-Barrie-Bouchard is a good problem

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #783377 is a reply to message #783351 ]
Wed, 21 April 2021 21:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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Oscargasm wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 19:09

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 17:50

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 15:32

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 15:15

The Barrie signing turned as good as it possibly could have, but with all that being said I have very little confidence in him when he’s on the ice.

Thank you for your service and you’ll be a great trivia question in 10 years.

If the Oilers don't keep Barrie, do you have confidence in their ability to find a suitable replacement for what he provides? I don't. Especially considering their narrowing Stanley Cup window.


I think Nurse splitting time with Bouchard will replace Barrie’s PP time and if Kulikov comes as advertised, then I’d much rather see him or an equivalent paired with a young puck mover like Bear or Bouchard at 5v5.

Barrie has been a tire fire as of late during even strength and when he’s playing well he was good, not great. Not giving the kids a shot and investing in Barrie long term contradicts the way we drafted. Let the kids play. The ELC savings can go towards a top line winger. My 2 cents. All being said, I’m a government worker who thinks he’s a GM at times. I know very little and my greatest resource is the eye test and following stats.






I’d argue the way Holland drafts is the same way I make short ribs. He drafts them (I sear the ribs) before putting them in the minors/Junior/A what have you (I put the ribs in the slow cooker) then lets them overripe (I have some beers... prep the rest of the meal) before bringing them up and giving them the spot their earn (I eat).

Ya. That’s works.

Bear-Larss-Barrie-Bouchard is a good problem


I'd argue that the reason Holland has that reputation is because he didn't have first round picks a lot of years, and didn't have high picks often. Lidstrom came right in to the NHL as soon as he came to the NHL. The really good players didn't spend much (any) time in the AHL.

Zetterberg - 0 AHL games
Datsyuk - 0 AHL games
Holmstrom - 6 AHL games
Kronwall - 102 AHL games (76 during the lockout year though, so really 26).
Larkin - 6 AHL Playoff games (0 regular season)

The whole "overripen" thing is a piece of mythology. What real impact player has Holland held in the minors for as long as he can?

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #783379 is a reply to message #783377 ]
Wed, 21 April 2021 21:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm is currently offline nullterm
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Adam wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 20:26

Oscargasm wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 19:09

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 17:50

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 15:32

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 15:15

The Barrie signing turned as good as it possibly could have, but with all that being said I have very little confidence in him when he’s on the ice.

Thank you for your service and you’ll be a great trivia question in 10 years.

If the Oilers don't keep Barrie, do you have confidence in their ability to find a suitable replacement for what he provides? I don't. Especially considering their narrowing Stanley Cup window.


I think Nurse splitting time with Bouchard will replace Barrie’s PP time and if Kulikov comes as advertised, then I’d much rather see him or an equivalent paired with a young puck mover like Bear or Bouchard at 5v5.

Barrie has been a tire fire as of late during even strength and when he’s playing well he was good, not great. Not giving the kids a shot and investing in Barrie long term contradicts the way we drafted. Let the kids play. The ELC savings can go towards a top line winger. My 2 cents. All being said, I’m a government worker who thinks he’s a GM at times. I know very little and my greatest resource is the eye test and following stats.






I’d argue the way Holland drafts is the same way I make short ribs. He drafts them (I sear the ribs) before putting them in the minors/Junior/A what have you (I put the ribs in the slow cooker) then lets them overripe (I have some beers... prep the rest of the meal) before bringing them up and giving them the spot their earn (I eat).

Ya. That’s works.

Bear-Larss-Barrie-Bouchard is a good problem


I'd argue that the reason Holland has that reputation is because he didn't have first round picks a lot of years, and didn't have high picks often. Lidstrom came right in to the NHL as soon as he came to the NHL. The really good players didn't spend much (any) time in the AHL.

Zetterberg - 0 AHL games
Datsyuk - 0 AHL games
Holmstrom - 6 AHL games
Kronwall - 102 AHL games (76 during the lockout year though, so really 26).
Larkin - 6 AHL Playoff games (0 regular season)

The whole "overripen" thing is a piece of mythology. What real impact player has Holland held in the minors for as long as he can?


Zetterberg played in Sweden SEL until he was 22ish.
Datsyuk played in Russian RSL until he was 23.
Holmstrom in Sweden SEL until 23.
Kronwall in Sweden SEL until 22.

So they came in ripe from playing in Europe.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #783381 is a reply to message #783379 ]
Wed, 21 April 2021 21:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm is currently offline Oscargasm
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nullterm wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 21:33

Adam wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 20:26

Oscargasm wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 19:09

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 17:50

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 15:32

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 15:15

The Barrie signing turned as good as it possibly could have, but with all that being said I have very little confidence in him when he’s on the ice.

Thank you for your service and you’ll be a great trivia question in 10 years.

If the Oilers don't keep Barrie, do you have confidence in their ability to find a suitable replacement for what he provides? I don't. Especially considering their narrowing Stanley Cup window.


I think Nurse splitting time with Bouchard will replace Barrie’s PP time and if Kulikov comes as advertised, then I’d much rather see him or an equivalent paired with a young puck mover like Bear or Bouchard at 5v5.

Barrie has been a tire fire as of late during even strength and when he’s playing well he was good, not great. Not giving the kids a shot and investing in Barrie long term contradicts the way we drafted. Let the kids play. The ELC savings can go towards a top line winger. My 2 cents. All being said, I’m a government worker who thinks he’s a GM at times. I know very little and my greatest resource is the eye test and following stats.






I’d argue the way Holland drafts is the same way I make short ribs. He drafts them (I sear the ribs) before putting them in the minors/Junior/A what have you (I put the ribs in the slow cooker) then lets them overripe (I have some beers... prep the rest of the meal) before bringing them up and giving them the spot their earn (I eat).

Ya. That’s works.

Bear-Larss-Barrie-Bouchard is a good problem


I'd argue that the reason Holland has that reputation is because he didn't have first round picks a lot of years, and didn't have high picks often. Lidstrom came right in to the NHL as soon as he came to the NHL. The really good players didn't spend much (any) time in the AHL.

Zetterberg - 0 AHL games
Datsyuk - 0 AHL games
Holmstrom - 6 AHL games
Kronwall - 102 AHL games (76 during the lockout year though, so really 26).
Larkin - 6 AHL Playoff games (0 regular season)

The whole "overripen" thing is a piece of mythology. What real impact player has Holland held in the minors for as long as he can?


Zetterberg played in Sweden SEL until he was 22ish.
Datsyuk played in Russian RSL until he was 23.
Holmstrom in Sweden SEL until 23.
Kronwall in Sweden SEL until 22.

So they came in ripe from playing in Europe.


👌🏼👌🏼🧆 some overripe meatballs there

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Category 5 - Incredibly Musty

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #783385 is a reply to message #783379 ]
Wed, 21 April 2021 21:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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nullterm wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 21:33

Adam wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 20:26

Oscargasm wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 19:09

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 17:50

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 15:32

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 15:15

The Barrie signing turned as good as it possibly could have, but with all that being said I have very little confidence in him when he’s on the ice.

Thank you for your service and you’ll be a great trivia question in 10 years.

If the Oilers don't keep Barrie, do you have confidence in their ability to find a suitable replacement for what he provides? I don't. Especially considering their narrowing Stanley Cup window.


I think Nurse splitting time with Bouchard will replace Barrie’s PP time and if Kulikov comes as advertised, then I’d much rather see him or an equivalent paired with a young puck mover like Bear or Bouchard at 5v5.

Barrie has been a tire fire as of late during even strength and when he’s playing well he was good, not great. Not giving the kids a shot and investing in Barrie long term contradicts the way we drafted. Let the kids play. The ELC savings can go towards a top line winger. My 2 cents. All being said, I’m a government worker who thinks he’s a GM at times. I know very little and my greatest resource is the eye test and following stats.






I’d argue the way Holland drafts is the same way I make short ribs. He drafts them (I sear the ribs) before putting them in the minors/Junior/A what have you (I put the ribs in the slow cooker) then lets them overripe (I have some beers... prep the rest of the meal) before bringing them up and giving them the spot their earn (I eat).

Ya. That’s works.

Bear-Larss-Barrie-Bouchard is a good problem


I'd argue that the reason Holland has that reputation is because he didn't have first round picks a lot of years, and didn't have high picks often. Lidstrom came right in to the NHL as soon as he came to the NHL. The really good players didn't spend much (any) time in the AHL.

Zetterberg - 0 AHL games
Datsyuk - 0 AHL games
Holmstrom - 6 AHL games
Kronwall - 102 AHL games (76 during the lockout year though, so really 26).
Larkin - 6 AHL Playoff games (0 regular season)

The whole "overripen" thing is a piece of mythology. What real impact player has Holland held in the minors for as long as he can?


Zetterberg played in Sweden SEL until he was 22ish.
Datsyuk played in Russian RSL until he was 23.
Holmstrom in Sweden SEL until 23.
Kronwall in Sweden SEL until 22.

So they came in ripe from playing in Europe.


Not really Holland's doing. First chance he had, he had them in the lineup.

And Bouchard is 22 at the start of next season.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #783336 is a reply to message #783313 ]
Wed, 21 April 2021 15:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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Skoobz wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 13:31

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 12:28


I disagree. I do not think him not playing has nothing to do with the Oilers thinking he can't do it. I think it has everything to do with the other players on their defense.


Can he not get some game action on the left side? Bouchard getting experience playing on the left side is for sure more important to the future (and of little detriment) than playing Jones or Lagesson. Or why not play with 7 d more often and let Connor and Leon double shift with the fourth line?

I do agree that messing with the right side doesn't make a ton of sense, but what doesn't make sense is the seeming lack of effort to find some way to get him game time.


Agreed here. There should have been more effort to get him in the lineup. He was on the left side in his last couple appearances including the last one where the shots were something like 17-2 for the Oilers with him on the ice (only issue being Koskinen not stopping either of the two...)

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #783335 is a reply to message #783305 ]
Wed, 21 April 2021 15:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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Skoobz wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 12:12

Adam wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 11:48

Bouchard is at an age where he needs to be contributing. The Oilers should be keeping an eye on the market value of their players along with the development curve. If the team doesn't think he can be the guy - then they need to trade him while others don't see that yet.


It really seems like they don't think that he can be the guy. Surely, if you thought he could be the guy you would find him ice time. Surely, if you thought he couldn't you would do something to keep his value high, like letting him dominate in the minors.

I can't quite figure out ANY reason to have him languish on the taxi squad all year. ANY.

FWIW, I really like Barrie and hope that he likes playing enough with 97/29 that he would consider taking a moderate haircut on either salary or term to stay here. I'd comfortably give him 5x5, and I would leave Klefbom exposed to Seattle and hope they bite.


I think that the coach likes veterans, and Bouchard isn't veteran enough for him. I think he does look at Jones and Bear as if they're new pros too - although that just isn't the case at this point. Bear has 121 NHL games to his name and another 89 AHL games. Jones has 84 NHL games and 122 AHL games. They're both 23 years old. Those are NHL defencemen. They're maybe not fully formed yet, but after 200+ pro games in your organization, you should have a pretty good idea of what a player is, and where their ceiling is.

Lagesson too by the way. He's 25, has 25 NHL games, 83 AHL games and 63 Swedish league pro games. There should be no mystery with any of these players now for the Oilers and the coach shouldn't be concerned about them as if they're raw rookies.

Bob Stauffer likes to throw out ridiculously high numbers for how many games a defenceman needs to play in the NHL before you know what you have, but that just really isn't so, especially with really good defencemen. Most of them make an impact relatively quickly and at a relatively low age.

Bouchard is at 89 pro games (12 NHL, 54 AHL, 23 Sweden) and probably should be higher if he hadn't sat the bulk of this season. If they know he's not going to be able to take that spot from Barrie - then trade him now. He's got value now. If he is relegated to watching for another year, he's going to have a lot less value. People can believe right now it's just a coach with a thing for veterans and a team in a playoff race for position - that just won't last year after year. At some point if the team never takes the plunge, then people will start to think it's him that's the issue.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #783337 is a reply to message #783335 ]
Wed, 21 April 2021 15:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76 is currently offline inverno76
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Adam wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 15:18

Skoobz wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 12:12

Adam wrote on Wed, 21 April 2021 11:48

Bouchard is at an age where he needs to be contributing. The Oilers should be keeping an eye on the market value of their players along with the development curve. If the team doesn't think he can be the guy - then they need to trade him while others don't see that yet.


It really seems like they don't think that he can be the guy. Surely, if you thought he could be the guy you would find him ice time. Surely, if you thought he couldn't you would do something to keep his value high, like letting him dominate in the minors.

I can't quite figure out ANY reason to have him languish on the taxi squad all year. ANY.

FWIW, I really like Barrie and hope that he likes playing enough with 97/29 that he would consider taking a moderate haircut on either salary or term to stay here. I'd comfortably give him 5x5, and I would leave Klefbom exposed to Seattle and hope they bite.


I think that the coach likes veterans, and Bouchard isn't veteran enough for him. I think he does look at Jones and Bear as if they're new pros too - although that just isn't the case at this point. Bear has 121 NHL games to his name and another 89 AHL games. Jones has 84 NHL games and 122 AHL games. They're both 23 years old. Those are NHL defencemen. They're maybe not fully formed yet, but after 200+ pro games in your organization, you should have a pretty good idea of what a player is, and where their ceiling is.

Lagesson too by the way. He's 25, has 25 NHL games, 83 AHL games and 63 Swedish league pro games. There should be no mystery with any of these players now for the Oilers and the coach shouldn't be concerned about them as if they're raw rookies.

Bob Stauffer likes to throw out ridiculously high numbers for how many games a defenceman needs to play in the NHL before you know what you have, but that just really isn't so, especially with really good defencemen. Most of them make an impact relatively quickly and at a relatively low age.

Bouchard is at 89 pro games (12 NHL, 54 AHL, 23 Sweden) and probably should be higher if he hadn't sat the bulk of this season. If they know he's not going to be able to take that spot from Barrie - then trade him now. He's got value now. If he is relegated to watching for another year, he's going to have a lot less value. People can believe right now it's just a coach with a thing for veterans and a team in a playoff race for position - that just won't last year after year. At some point if the team never takes the plunge, then people will start to think it's him that's the issue.


What’s Bob’s number, 300 games?

Likely heard it from Lowe or MacT and now it’s gospel. The kids should be sheltered, but given an opportunity to grow. Tipp loves proven NHL talent. That and Patrick Russell.

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784021 is a reply to message #768235 ]
Sun, 02 May 2021 00:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner is currently offline mightyreasoner
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Tyson Barrie appreciation post:

- With point 42 (in game 49), the only Oilers defensemen to have scored more in a season than Tyson Barrie in the past 20 seasons are:

J. Niinimaa (46 PTS / 82 Games) 00/01
J. Niinimaa (44 PTS / 81 Games) 01/02
C. Pronger (56 PTS / 80 Games) 05/06
S. Souray (53 PTS / 81 Games) 08/09


- Over an 82 game season, Tyson Barrie is on a 70-point season pace. The last Oilers defenseman to put up better numbers was Paul Coffey who had 67 points in 59 games (1986-87) and a ridiculous 138 points in 79 games (1985-86). It's a pace we haven't seen in 34 years.


- And a stat I saw from a few nights ago... Tyson Barrie's 41 points are the 7th-most by a defenceman in Oilers history through the first 47 games of a season. The other 6 ahead of him are all Paul Coffey.


- Defenseman who have scored more than him this year: Adam Fox and Victor Hedman (both with 2 more games played).


Tyson Barrie is very good at what he does very well. No defenseman has been more productive in the McDavid era, or arguably, the past three decades. He is not the most complete or well-rounded defenseman, but that said, the season he is having is probably not appreciated enough in this city.

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784022 is a reply to message #784021 ]
Sun, 02 May 2021 00:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm is currently offline Oscargasm
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mightyreasoner wrote on Sun, 02 May 2021 00:05

Tyson Barrie appreciation post:

- With point 42 (in game 49), the only Oilers defensemen to have scored more in a season than Tyson Barrie in the past 20 seasons are:

J. Niinimaa (46 PTS / 82 Games) 00/01
J. Niinimaa (44 PTS / 81 Games) 01/02
C. Pronger (56 PTS / 80 Games) 05/06
S. Souray (53 PTS / 81 Games) 08/09


- Over an 82 game season, Tyson Barrie is on a 70-point season pace. The last Oilers defenseman to put up better numbers was Paul Coffey who had 67 points in 59 games (1986-87) and a ridiculous 138 points in 79 games (1985-86). It's a pace we haven't seen in 34 years.


- And a stat I saw from a few nights ago... Tyson Barrie's 41 points are the 7th-most by a defenceman in Oilers history through the first 47 games of a season. The other 6 ahead of him are all Paul Coffey.


- Defenseman who have scored more than him this year: Adam Fox and Victor Hedman (both with 2 more games played).


Tyson Barrie is very good at what he does very well. No defenseman has been more productive in the McDavid era, or arguably, the past three decades. He is not the most complete or well-rounded defenseman, but that said, the season he is having is probably not appreciated enough in this city.


Amen. Thank you for this.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. You want a legit window for the Oilers, find a way to resign him. It’s not a bad thing to have Barrie, Larsson, Bear and Bouchard all available for the right side.

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Category 2 - Moderately Musty
Category 3 - Considerably Musty
Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784029 is a reply to message #784022 ]
Sun, 02 May 2021 08:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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Oscargasm wrote on Sun, 02 May 2021 00:07

mightyreasoner wrote on Sun, 02 May 2021 00:05

Tyson Barrie appreciation post:

- With point 42 (in game 49), the only Oilers defensemen to have scored more in a season than Tyson Barrie in the past 20 seasons are:

J. Niinimaa (46 PTS / 82 Games) 00/01
J. Niinimaa (44 PTS / 81 Games) 01/02
C. Pronger (56 PTS / 80 Games) 05/06
S. Souray (53 PTS / 81 Games) 08/09


- Over an 82 game season, Tyson Barrie is on a 70-point season pace. The last Oilers defenseman to put up better numbers was Paul Coffey who had 67 points in 59 games (1986-87) and a ridiculous 138 points in 79 games (1985-86). It's a pace we haven't seen in 34 years.


- And a stat I saw from a few nights ago... Tyson Barrie's 41 points are the 7th-most by a defenceman in Oilers history through the first 47 games of a season. The other 6 ahead of him are all Paul Coffey.


- Defenseman who have scored more than him this year: Adam Fox and Victor Hedman (both with 2 more games played).


Tyson Barrie is very good at what he does very well. No defenseman has been more productive in the McDavid era, or arguably, the past three decades. He is not the most complete or well-rounded defenseman, but that said, the season he is having is probably not appreciated enough in this city.


Amen. Thank you for this.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. You want a legit window for the Oilers, find a way to resign him. It’s not a bad thing to have Barrie, Larsson, Bear and Bouchard all available for the right side.

There are arguments either way on re-signing him, but it sure does feel like we should have loaded up this year...

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784030 is a reply to message #784029 ]
Sun, 02 May 2021 09:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 9521
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
6 Cups
CrudeRemarks wrote on Sun, 02 May 2021 08:48

Oscargasm wrote on Sun, 02 May 2021 00:07

mightyreasoner wrote on Sun, 02 May 2021 00:05

Tyson Barrie appreciation post:

- With point 42 (in game 49), the only Oilers defensemen to have scored more in a season than Tyson Barrie in the past 20 seasons are:

J. Niinimaa (46 PTS / 82 Games) 00/01
J. Niinimaa (44 PTS / 81 Games) 01/02
C. Pronger (56 PTS / 80 Games) 05/06
S. Souray (53 PTS / 81 Games) 08/09


- Over an 82 game season, Tyson Barrie is on a 70-point season pace. The last Oilers defenseman to put up better numbers was Paul Coffey who had 67 points in 59 games (1986-87) and a ridiculous 138 points in 79 games (1985-86). It's a pace we haven't seen in 34 years.


- And a stat I saw from a few nights ago... Tyson Barrie's 41 points are the 7th-most by a defenceman in Oilers history through the first 47 games of a season. The other 6 ahead of him are all Paul Coffey.


- Defenseman who have scored more than him this year: Adam Fox and Victor Hedman (both with 2 more games played).


Tyson Barrie is very good at what he does very well. No defenseman has been more productive in the McDavid era, or arguably, the past three decades. He is not the most complete or well-rounded defenseman, but that said, the season he is having is probably not appreciated enough in this city.


Amen. Thank you for this.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. You want a legit window for the Oilers, find a way to resign him. It’s not a bad thing to have Barrie, Larsson, Bear and Bouchard all available for the right side.

There are arguments either way on re-signing him, but it sure does feel like we should have loaded up this year...


Why? Leafs suddenly not the best team ever? We had no chance to be a top 5 team still IMO. Final 4 remains impossible because of generational Matthews. Chances will be better after Cali teams retool and Vegas is in our division again.

*the above is sarcasm

[Updated on: Sun, 02 May 2021 09:11]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784034 is a reply to message #784030 ]
Sun, 02 May 2021 10:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks is currently offline CrudeRemarks
Messages: 1698
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton
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Kr55 wrote on Sun, 02 May 2021 09:09

CrudeRemarks wrote on Sun, 02 May 2021 08:48

Oscargasm wrote on Sun, 02 May 2021 00:07

mightyreasoner wrote on Sun, 02 May 2021 00:05

Tyson Barrie appreciation post:

- With point 42 (in game 49), the only Oilers defensemen to have scored more in a season than Tyson Barrie in the past 20 seasons are:

J. Niinimaa (46 PTS / 82 Games) 00/01
J. Niinimaa (44 PTS / 81 Games) 01/02
C. Pronger (56 PTS / 80 Games) 05/06
S. Souray (53 PTS / 81 Games) 08/09


- Over an 82 game season, Tyson Barrie is on a 70-point season pace. The last Oilers defenseman to put up better numbers was Paul Coffey who had 67 points in 59 games (1986-87) and a ridiculous 138 points in 79 games (1985-86). It's a pace we haven't seen in 34 years.


- And a stat I saw from a few nights ago... Tyson Barrie's 41 points are the 7th-most by a defenceman in Oilers history through the first 47 games of a season. The other 6 ahead of him are all Paul Coffey.


- Defenseman who have scored more than him this year: Adam Fox and Victor Hedman (both with 2 more games played).


Tyson Barrie is very good at what he does very well. No defenseman has been more productive in the McDavid era, or arguably, the past three decades. He is not the most complete or well-rounded defenseman, but that said, the season he is having is probably not appreciated enough in this city.


Amen. Thank you for this.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. You want a legit window for the Oilers, find a way to resign him. It’s not a bad thing to have Barrie, Larsson, Bear and Bouchard all available for the right side.

There are arguments either way on re-signing him, but it sure does feel like we should have loaded up this year...


Why? Leafs suddenly not the best team ever? We had no chance to be a top 5 team still IMO. Final 4 remains impossible because of generational Matthews. Chances will be better after Cali teams retool and Vegas is in our division again.

*the above is sarcasm

You can't just go for it every year. Next generational talent we draft things will be different around here.

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784043 is a reply to message #784034 ]
Sun, 02 May 2021 13:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
Messages: 6800
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
CrudeRemarks wrote on Sun, 02 May 2021 10:55

Kr55 wrote on Sun, 02 May 2021 09:09

CrudeRemarks wrote on Sun, 02 May 2021 08:48

Oscargasm wrote on Sun, 02 May 2021 00:07

mightyreasoner wrote on Sun, 02 May 2021 00:05

Tyson Barrie appreciation post:

- With point 42 (in game 49), the only Oilers defensemen to have scored more in a season than Tyson Barrie in the past 20 seasons are:

J. Niinimaa (46 PTS / 82 Games) 00/01
J. Niinimaa (44 PTS / 81 Games) 01/02
C. Pronger (56 PTS / 80 Games) 05/06
S. Souray (53 PTS / 81 Games) 08/09


- Over an 82 game season, Tyson Barrie is on a 70-point season pace. The last Oilers defenseman to put up better numbers was Paul Coffey who had 67 points in 59 games (1986-87) and a ridiculous 138 points in 79 games (1985-86). It's a pace we haven't seen in 34 years.


- And a stat I saw from a few nights ago... Tyson Barrie's 41 points are the 7th-most by a defenceman in Oilers history through the first 47 games of a season. The other 6 ahead of him are all Paul Coffey.


- Defenseman who have scored more than him this year: Adam Fox and Victor Hedman (both with 2 more games played).


Tyson Barrie is very good at what he does very well. No defenseman has been more productive in the McDavid era, or arguably, the past three decades. He is not the most complete or well-rounded defenseman, but that said, the season he is having is probably not appreciated enough in this city.


Amen. Thank you for this.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. You want a legit window for the Oilers, find a way to resign him. It’s not a bad thing to have Barrie, Larsson, Bear and Bouchard all available for the right side.

There are arguments either way on re-signing him, but it sure does feel like we should have loaded up this year...


Why? Leafs suddenly not the best team ever? We had no chance to be a top 5 team still IMO. Final 4 remains impossible because of generational Matthews. Chances will be better after Cali teams retool and Vegas is in our division again.

*the above is sarcasm

You can't just go for it every year. Next generational talent we draft things will be different around here.


I can't help but think that if we just had one more really high draft pick, we might finally be ready. Can't believe the team is blowing that this year. And for what?! Don't they know they're not ready to contend yet?!

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784055 is a reply to message #784043 ]
Sun, 02 May 2021 18:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm is currently offline Oscargasm
Messages: 5649
Registered: May 2009
Location: YEG
5 Cups
Adam wrote on Sun, 02 May 2021 13:46

CrudeRemarks wrote on Sun, 02 May 2021 10:55

Kr55 wrote on Sun, 02 May 2021 09:09

CrudeRemarks wrote on Sun, 02 May 2021 08:48

Oscargasm wrote on Sun, 02 May 2021 00:07

mightyreasoner wrote on Sun, 02 May 2021 00:05

Tyson Barrie appreciation post:

- With point 42 (in game 49), the only Oilers defensemen to have scored more in a season than Tyson Barrie in the past 20 seasons are:

J. Niinimaa (46 PTS / 82 Games) 00/01
J. Niinimaa (44 PTS / 81 Games) 01/02
C. Pronger (56 PTS / 80 Games) 05/06
S. Souray (53 PTS / 81 Games) 08/09


- Over an 82 game season, Tyson Barrie is on a 70-point season pace. The last Oilers defenseman to put up better numbers was Paul Coffey who had 67 points in 59 games (1986-87) and a ridiculous 138 points in 79 games (1985-86). It's a pace we haven't seen in 34 years.


- And a stat I saw from a few nights ago... Tyson Barrie's 41 points are the 7th-most by a defenceman in Oilers history through the first 47 games of a season. The other 6 ahead of him are all Paul Coffey.


- Defenseman who have scored more than him this year: Adam Fox and Victor Hedman (both with 2 more games played).


Tyson Barrie is very good at what he does very well. No defenseman has been more productive in the McDavid era, or arguably, the past three decades. He is not the most complete or well-rounded defenseman, but that said, the season he is having is probably not appreciated enough in this city.


Amen. Thank you for this.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. You want a legit window for the Oilers, find a way to resign him. It’s not a bad thing to have Barrie, Larsson, Bear and Bouchard all available for the right side.

There are arguments either way on re-signing him, but it sure does feel like we should have loaded up this year...


Why? Leafs suddenly not the best team ever? We had no chance to be a top 5 team still IMO. Final 4 remains impossible because of generational Matthews. Chances will be better after Cali teams retool and Vegas is in our division again.

*the above is sarcasm

You can't just go for it every year. Next generational talent we draft things will be different around here.


I can't help but think that if we just had one more really high draft pick, we might finally be ready. Can't believe the team is blowing that this year. And for what?! Don't they know they're not ready to contend yet?!


Have you seen how much cap space the Oilers will have after this season?! Next year is the year to go hard for it!

Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
OG's #MUSTWIN Scale
Category 1 - Lightly Musty
Category 2 - Moderately Musty
Category 3 - Considerably Musty
Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784846 is a reply to message #768235 ]
Tue, 11 May 2021 10:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
Messages: 6800
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
Barrie has an excellent chance now to finish first in defencemen scoring. The bolded players below still have any games remaining:

Adam Fox - 55 GP 5-42-47
Tyson Barrie - 54 GP 8-38-46 - 2 games left
Kris Letang - 44 GP 7-38-45
Victor Hedman - 54 GP 9-36-45
John Carlson - 52 GP 10-34-44 - 1 game left
Cale Makar - 42 GP 8-35-43 - 2 games left
Jeff Petry - 55 GP 12-30-42 - 1 game left
Shea Theodore - 52 GP 8-34- 42 1 game left
Dougie Hamilton - 55 GP 10-32-42
Jacob Chychrun - 56 GP 18-23-41

Really, the only one I could see potentially catching him from behind is Cale Makar. Guy is a tremendous point producer - you don't see a lot of point per game defencemen - but even then, that would be a hell of a finish. Barrie definitely chose right when he bet on himself this summer...

Couple other random notes here - Jacob Chychrun's got 18 goals, 1st among blueliners...but #2 is Darnell Nurse with 16. He's got an outside chance to catch him there too. They're way out in front alone. Petry is 3rd with 12 goals (imagine what a Nurse/Petry pairing might have looked like but for MacTavish...)

There's a "MacKenzie Weegar" who is 11th in defenceman scoring. Where did this guy come from? 7th round pick for the Panthers in 2013. His career prior to this season he had 172GP, 13-28-41. This year he's got 54 GP, 6-30-36. I wonder if it's sustainable?

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784847 is a reply to message #784846 ]
Tue, 11 May 2021 10:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks is currently offline CrudeRemarks
Messages: 1698
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton
1 Cup
Adam wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 10:06

Barrie has an excellent chance now to finish first in defencemen scoring. The bolded players below still have any games remaining:

Adam Fox - 55 GP 5-42-47
Tyson Barrie - 54 GP 8-38-46 - 2 games left
Kris Letang - 44 GP 7-38-45
Victor Hedman - 54 GP 9-36-45
John Carlson - 52 GP 10-34-44 - 1 game left
Cale Makar - 42 GP 8-35-43 - 2 games left
Jeff Petry - 55 GP 12-30-42 - 1 game left
Shea Theodore - 52 GP 8-34- 42 1 game left
Dougie Hamilton - 55 GP 10-32-42
Jacob Chychrun - 56 GP 18-23-41

Really, the only one I could see potentially catching him from behind is Cale Makar. Guy is a tremendous point producer - you don't see a lot of point per game defencemen - but even then, that would be a hell of a finish. Barrie definitely chose right when he bet on himself this summer...

Couple other random notes here - Jacob Chychrun's got 18 goals, 1st among blueliners...but #2 is Darnell Nurse with 16. He's got an outside chance to catch him there too. They're way out in front alone. Petry is 3rd with 12 goals (imagine what a Nurse/Petry pairing might have looked like but for MacTavish...)

There's a "MacKenzie Weegar" who is 11th in defenceman scoring. Where did this guy come from? 7th round pick for the Panthers in 2013. His career prior to this season he had 172GP, 13-28-41. This year he's got 54 GP, 6-30-36. I wonder if it's sustainable?

Weegar gets to play with Sam Bennett. Anybody would see a bump in production there.

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784848 is a reply to message #784847 ]
Tue, 11 May 2021 10:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 9521
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
6 Cups
CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 10:15

Adam wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 10:06

Barrie has an excellent chance now to finish first in defencemen scoring. The bolded players below still have any games remaining:

Adam Fox - 55 GP 5-42-47
Tyson Barrie - 54 GP 8-38-46 - 2 games left
Kris Letang - 44 GP 7-38-45
Victor Hedman - 54 GP 9-36-45
John Carlson - 52 GP 10-34-44 - 1 game left
Cale Makar - 42 GP 8-35-43 - 2 games left
Jeff Petry - 55 GP 12-30-42 - 1 game left
Shea Theodore - 52 GP 8-34- 42 1 game left
Dougie Hamilton - 55 GP 10-32-42
Jacob Chychrun - 56 GP 18-23-41

Really, the only one I could see potentially catching him from behind is Cale Makar. Guy is a tremendous point producer - you don't see a lot of point per game defencemen - but even then, that would be a hell of a finish. Barrie definitely chose right when he bet on himself this summer...

Couple other random notes here - Jacob Chychrun's got 18 goals, 1st among blueliners...but #2 is Darnell Nurse with 16. He's got an outside chance to catch him there too. They're way out in front alone. Petry is 3rd with 12 goals (imagine what a Nurse/Petry pairing might have looked like but for MacTavish...)

There's a "MacKenzie Weegar" who is 11th in defenceman scoring. Where did this guy come from? 7th round pick for the Panthers in 2013. His career prior to this season he had 172GP, 13-28-41. This year he's got 54 GP, 6-30-36. I wonder if it's sustainable?

Weegar gets to play with Sam Bennett. Anybody would see a bump in production there.


Quenneville effect for those guys. Quenneville gets the most possible offense out of basically anyone.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784850 is a reply to message #784848 ]
Tue, 11 May 2021 11:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks is currently offline CrudeRemarks
Messages: 1698
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 10:17

CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 10:15

Adam wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 10:06

Barrie has an excellent chance now to finish first in defencemen scoring. The bolded players below still have any games remaining:

Adam Fox - 55 GP 5-42-47
Tyson Barrie - 54 GP 8-38-46 - 2 games left
Kris Letang - 44 GP 7-38-45
Victor Hedman - 54 GP 9-36-45
John Carlson - 52 GP 10-34-44 - 1 game left
Cale Makar - 42 GP 8-35-43 - 2 games left
Jeff Petry - 55 GP 12-30-42 - 1 game left
Shea Theodore - 52 GP 8-34- 42 1 game left
Dougie Hamilton - 55 GP 10-32-42
Jacob Chychrun - 56 GP 18-23-41

Really, the only one I could see potentially catching him from behind is Cale Makar. Guy is a tremendous point producer - you don't see a lot of point per game defencemen - but even then, that would be a hell of a finish. Barrie definitely chose right when he bet on himself this summer...

Couple other random notes here - Jacob Chychrun's got 18 goals, 1st among blueliners...but #2 is Darnell Nurse with 16. He's got an outside chance to catch him there too. They're way out in front alone. Petry is 3rd with 12 goals (imagine what a Nurse/Petry pairing might have looked like but for MacTavish...)

There's a "MacKenzie Weegar" who is 11th in defenceman scoring. Where did this guy come from? 7th round pick for the Panthers in 2013. His career prior to this season he had 172GP, 13-28-41. This year he's got 54 GP, 6-30-36. I wonder if it's sustainable?

Weegar gets to play with Sam Bennett. Anybody would see a bump in production there.


Quenneville effect for those guys. Quenneville gets the most possible offense out of basically anyone.

Quenneville is like a young Darryl Sutter.

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784854 is a reply to message #784850 ]
Tue, 11 May 2021 11:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim is currently offline Skookum Jim
Messages: 3866
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC
3 Cups
CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 10:02

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 10:17

CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 10:15

Adam wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 10:06

Barrie has an excellent chance now to finish first in defencemen scoring. The bolded players below still have any games remaining:

Adam Fox - 55 GP 5-42-47
Tyson Barrie - 54 GP 8-38-46 - 2 games left
Kris Letang - 44 GP 7-38-45
Victor Hedman - 54 GP 9-36-45
John Carlson - 52 GP 10-34-44 - 1 game left
Cale Makar - 42 GP 8-35-43 - 2 games left
Jeff Petry - 55 GP 12-30-42 - 1 game left
Shea Theodore - 52 GP 8-34- 42 1 game left
Dougie Hamilton - 55 GP 10-32-42
Jacob Chychrun - 56 GP 18-23-41

Really, the only one I could see potentially catching him from behind is Cale Makar. Guy is a tremendous point producer - you don't see a lot of point per game defencemen - but even then, that would be a hell of a finish. Barrie definitely chose right when he bet on himself this summer...

Couple other random notes here - Jacob Chychrun's got 18 goals, 1st among blueliners...but #2 is Darnell Nurse with 16. He's got an outside chance to catch him there too. They're way out in front alone. Petry is 3rd with 12 goals (imagine what a Nurse/Petry pairing might have looked like but for MacTavish...)

There's a "MacKenzie Weegar" who is 11th in defenceman scoring. Where did this guy come from? 7th round pick for the Panthers in 2013. His career prior to this season he had 172GP, 13-28-41. This year he's got 54 GP, 6-30-36. I wonder if it's sustainable?

Weegar gets to play with Sam Bennett. Anybody would see a bump in production there.


Quenneville effect for those guys. Quenneville gets the most possible offense out of basically anyone.

Quenneville is like a young Darryl Sutter.


I'm picking Panthers over TB in round 1, serve TB right for the LTIR and cap fraud they've conducted this past year with Kutcherov, that was a $9.5M off their bloated cap just for Kutcherov.. currently have $25M on LTIR..

That LTIR rule needs to be looked at.. you need to be under $81.5M for the season, but can run at $91M in the playoffs.

[Updated on: Tue, 11 May 2021 11:55]

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784856 is a reply to message #784854 ]
Tue, 11 May 2021 11:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks is currently offline CrudeRemarks
Messages: 1698
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton
1 Cup
Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 11:42

CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 10:02

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 10:17

CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 10:15

Adam wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 10:06

Barrie has an excellent chance now to finish first in defencemen scoring. The bolded players below still have any games remaining:

Adam Fox - 55 GP 5-42-47
Tyson Barrie - 54 GP 8-38-46 - 2 games left
Kris Letang - 44 GP 7-38-45
Victor Hedman - 54 GP 9-36-45
John Carlson - 52 GP 10-34-44 - 1 game left
Cale Makar - 42 GP 8-35-43 - 2 games left
Jeff Petry - 55 GP 12-30-42 - 1 game left
Shea Theodore - 52 GP 8-34- 42 1 game left
Dougie Hamilton - 55 GP 10-32-42
Jacob Chychrun - 56 GP 18-23-41

Really, the only one I could see potentially catching him from behind is Cale Makar. Guy is a tremendous point producer - you don't see a lot of point per game defencemen - but even then, that would be a hell of a finish. Barrie definitely chose right when he bet on himself this summer...

Couple other random notes here - Jacob Chychrun's got 18 goals, 1st among blueliners...but #2 is Darnell Nurse with 16. He's got an outside chance to catch him there too. They're way out in front alone. Petry is 3rd with 12 goals (imagine what a Nurse/Petry pairing might have looked like but for MacTavish...)

There's a "MacKenzie Weegar" who is 11th in defenceman scoring. Where did this guy come from? 7th round pick for the Panthers in 2013. His career prior to this season he had 172GP, 13-28-41. This year he's got 54 GP, 6-30-36. I wonder if it's sustainable?

Weegar gets to play with Sam Bennett. Anybody would see a bump in production there.


Quenneville effect for those guys. Quenneville gets the most possible offense out of basically anyone.

Quenneville is like a young Darryl Sutter.


I'm picking Panthers over TB in round 1, serve TB right for the LTIR and cap fraud they've conducted this past year with Kutcherov, that was a $9.5M off their bloated cap just for Kutcherov.. currently have $25M on LTIR..

That LTIR rule needs to be looked at.. you need to be under $81.5M for the season, but can run at $91M in the playoffs.


I agree in principle. However, since teams are doing it flagrantly with no consequences, it's a failure on Holland's part that he didn't do some acrobatics to bring in more help at the deadline. If McDavid finishes his Oilers career without a Cup victory we will all look back at this season and wonder if it was a missed opportunity.

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784873 is a reply to message #784856 ]
Tue, 11 May 2021 14:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim is currently offline Skookum Jim
Messages: 3866
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC
3 Cups
CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 10:44

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 11:42


I'm picking Panthers over TB in round 1, serve TB right for the LTIR and cap fraud they've conducted this past year with Kutcherov, that was a $9.5M off their bloated cap just for Kutcherov.. currently have $25M on LTIR..

That LTIR rule needs to be looked at.. you need to be under $81.5M for the season, but can run at $91M in the playoffs.


I agree in principle. However, since teams are doing it flagrantly with no consequences, it's a failure on Holland's part that he didn't do some acrobatics to bring in more help at the deadline. If McDavid finishes his Oilers career without a Cup victory we will all look back at this season and wonder if it was a missed opportunity.


what kind of cap acrobatics were you thinking of? Tell Neal that he had a high ankle sprain that would him out of the line up until Game #1 of the playoffs? I guess so, but most teams (like Oilers) would've been called out by the NHL and told to present medical evidence, ala WCB. I'm still amazed that TB was allowed to pull this off, $9.5M in cap hit >>poof<<.. removed for the regular season. ONLY.

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784875 is a reply to message #784873 ]
Tue, 11 May 2021 14:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks is currently offline CrudeRemarks
Messages: 1698
Registered: November 2010
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Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 14:09

CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 10:44

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 11:42


I'm picking Panthers over TB in round 1, serve TB right for the LTIR and cap fraud they've conducted this past year with Kutcherov, that was a $9.5M off their bloated cap just for Kutcherov.. currently have $25M on LTIR..

That LTIR rule needs to be looked at.. you need to be under $81.5M for the season, but can run at $91M in the playoffs.


I agree in principle. However, since teams are doing it flagrantly with no consequences, it's a failure on Holland's part that he didn't do some acrobatics to bring in more help at the deadline. If McDavid finishes his Oilers career without a Cup victory we will all look back at this season and wonder if it was a missed opportunity.


what kind of cap acrobatics were you thinking of? Tell Neal that he had a high ankle sprain that would him out of the line up until Game #1 of the playoffs? I guess so, but most teams (like Oilers) would've been called out by the NHL and told to present medical evidence, ala WCB. I'm still amazed that TB was allowed to pull this off, $9.5M in cap hit >>poof<<.. removed for the regular season. ONLY.

Sure. Funny LTIR stuff, trading through another team to have them retain salary. All the stuff that the smart GMs did to improve their rosters at the deadline. TO spanked the Oilers in that midseason series BEFORE their trade deadline. Tampa found ways to improve their team in spite of being right up against the cap(or well over depending on your POV). Maybe the guys on the farm are good enough to provide offensive depth for the playoffs, and maybe a guy like Taylor Hall said he didn't want to come here. But to not upgrade the forward position at all at the deadline was a massive mistake.

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784882 is a reply to message #784875 ]
Tue, 11 May 2021 15:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 14:28

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 14:09

CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 10:44

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 11:42


I'm picking Panthers over TB in round 1, serve TB right for the LTIR and cap fraud they've conducted this past year with Kutcherov, that was a $9.5M off their bloated cap just for Kutcherov.. currently have $25M on LTIR..

That LTIR rule needs to be looked at.. you need to be under $81.5M for the season, but can run at $91M in the playoffs.


I agree in principle. However, since teams are doing it flagrantly with no consequences, it's a failure on Holland's part that he didn't do some acrobatics to bring in more help at the deadline. If McDavid finishes his Oilers career without a Cup victory we will all look back at this season and wonder if it was a missed opportunity.


what kind of cap acrobatics were you thinking of? Tell Neal that he had a high ankle sprain that would him out of the line up until Game #1 of the playoffs? I guess so, but most teams (like Oilers) would've been called out by the NHL and told to present medical evidence, ala WCB. I'm still amazed that TB was allowed to pull this off, $9.5M in cap hit >>poof<<.. removed for the regular season. ONLY.

Sure. Funny LTIR stuff, trading through another team to have them retain salary. All the stuff that the smart GMs did to improve their rosters at the deadline. TO spanked the Oilers in that midseason series BEFORE their trade deadline. Tampa found ways to improve their team in spite of being right up against the cap(or well over depending on your POV). Maybe the guys on the farm are good enough to provide offensive depth for the playoffs, and maybe a guy like Taylor Hall said he didn't want to come here. But to not upgrade the forward position at all at the deadline was a massive mistake.


Holland actually went pretty far the other way - he told the media he needed to save room under the cap in case Slater Koekkoek came back from injury and needed to be activated before the end of the season (which, by the way, he has not). If you look at Toronto deciding they can live without their starting goalie until the playoffs, so they can add a couple more pieces...well, it's a pretty stark comparison.

I don't really believe that there's two sets of rules with the NHL - just that there's teams that boldly challenge the rules, and others that will very tentatively and meekly ask if they're allowed to. Guess which ones benefit? The LTIR shenanigans have happened for years - Chicago was the first to do it with Kane one year where he was injured for all the remainder of a season and magically healthy in time for Game One of the playoffs. Tampa and Kucherov takes it to a new level, but it's the same thing.

There were options out there. Hall got the Sabres only a 2nd round pick. The Kings got only a 3rd and a 4th for Carter. If Holland was willing to risk ANYTHING, then the Oilers could have improved their top six. I hope we don't end up regretting that.

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784884 is a reply to message #784875 ]
Tue, 11 May 2021 15:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim is currently offline Skookum Jim
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 13:28

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 14:09

CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 10:44

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 11:42


I'm picking Panthers over TB in round 1, serve TB right for the LTIR and cap fraud they've conducted this past year with Kutcherov, that was a $9.5M off their bloated cap just for Kutcherov.. currently have $25M on LTIR..

That LTIR rule needs to be looked at.. you need to be under $81.5M for the season, but can run at $91M in the playoffs.


I agree in principle. However, since teams are doing it flagrantly with no consequences, it's a failure on Holland's part that he didn't do some acrobatics to bring in more help at the deadline. If McDavid finishes his Oilers career without a Cup victory we will all look back at this season and wonder if it was a missed opportunity.


what kind of cap acrobatics were you thinking of? Tell Neal that he had a high ankle sprain that would him out of the line up until Game #1 of the playoffs? I guess so, but most teams (like Oilers) would've been called out by the NHL and told to present medical evidence, ala WCB. I'm still amazed that TB was allowed to pull this off, $9.5M in cap hit >>poof<<.. removed for the regular season. ONLY.

Sure. Funny LTIR stuff, trading through another team to have them retain salary. All the stuff that the smart GMs did to improve their rosters at the deadline. TO spanked the Oilers in that midseason series BEFORE their trade deadline. Tampa found ways to improve their team in spite of being right up against the cap(or well over depending on your POV). Maybe the guys on the farm are good enough to provide offensive depth for the playoffs, and maybe a guy like Taylor Hall said he didn't want to come here. But to not upgrade the forward position at all at the deadline was a massive mistake.


The cap retention/trade maneuvers you're talking about are not what I was referring to, I'm talking about what TB did with Kutcherov's LTIR scam.

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784894 is a reply to message #784884 ]
Tue, 11 May 2021 17:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 15:39


The cap retention/trade maneuvers you're talking about are not what I was referring to, I'm talking about what TB did with Kutcherov's LTIR scam.



NHL has known about this for years:

https://www.tsn.ca/gms-would-like-answers-about-patrick-kane -loophole-1.454158

They haven't done anything about any of the offenders. The Oilers just don't take advantage of the system.

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784946 is a reply to message #784846 ]
Wed, 12 May 2021 09:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 10:06


Adam Fox - 55 GP 5-42-47
Tyson Barrie - 54 GP 8-38-46 - 2 games left
Kris Letang - 44 GP 7-38-45
Victor Hedman - 54 GP 9-36-45
John Carlson - 52 GP 10-34-44 - 1 game left
Cale Makar - 42 GP 8-35-43 - 2 games left
Jeff Petry - 55 GP 12-30-42 - 1 game left
Shea Theodore - 52 GP 8-34- 42 1 game left
Dougie Hamilton - 55 GP 10-32-42
Jacob Chychrun - 56 GP 18-23-41




Carlson had no points last night. He's finished at 44. Petry's & Theodore's last game tonight.

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #785018 is a reply to message #784946 ]
Wed, 12 May 2021 17:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Wed, 12 May 2021 09:43

Adam wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 10:06


Adam Fox - 55 GP 5-42-47
Tyson Barrie - 54 GP 8-38-46 - 2 games left
Kris Letang - 44 GP 7-38-45
Victor Hedman - 54 GP 9-36-45
John Carlson - 52 GP 10-34-44 - 1 game left
Cale Makar - 42 GP 8-35-43 - 2 games left
Jeff Petry - 55 GP 12-30-42 - 1 game left
Shea Theodore - 52 GP 8-34- 42 1 game left
Dougie Hamilton - 55 GP 10-32-42
Jacob Chychrun - 56 GP 18-23-41




Carlson had no points last night. He's finished at 44. Petry's & Theodore's last game tonight.


Carlson misses the layup this season. The Norris was there for the taking! Could not put up the points for it.

Year of the Letang? Pretty good story with him overcoming some bad injuries/health situation.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #785020 is a reply to message #785018 ]
Wed, 12 May 2021 17:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 12 May 2021 17:34

Adam wrote on Wed, 12 May 2021 09:43

Adam wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 10:06


Adam Fox - 55 GP 5-42-47
Tyson Barrie - 54 GP 8-38-46 - 2 games left
Kris Letang - 44 GP 7-38-45
Victor Hedman - 54 GP 9-36-45
John Carlson - 52 GP 10-34-44 - 1 game left
Cale Makar - 42 GP 8-35-43 - 2 games left
Jeff Petry - 55 GP 12-30-42 - 1 game left
Shea Theodore - 52 GP 8-34- 42 1 game left
Dougie Hamilton - 55 GP 10-32-42
Jacob Chychrun - 56 GP 18-23-41




Carlson had no points last night. He's finished at 44. Petry's & Theodore's last game tonight.


Carlson misses the layup this season. The Norris was there for the taking! Could not put up the points for it.

Year of the Letang? Pretty good story with him overcoming some bad injuries/health situation.


Hedman wins it, I assume? Makar probably should. Those numbers are amazing. He won't because the voters will think he has many more years where he can win, so they'll give to an older guy.

Nurse will get a few votes. Barrie not a single first place vote. Maybe some 4th/5th place ones.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #785021 is a reply to message #785020 ]
Wed, 12 May 2021 17:37 Go to previous message
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Adam wrote on Wed, 12 May 2021 17:36

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 12 May 2021 17:34

Adam wrote on Wed, 12 May 2021 09:43

Adam wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 10:06


Adam Fox - 55 GP 5-42-47
Tyson Barrie - 54 GP 8-38-46 - 2 games left
Kris Letang - 44 GP 7-38-45
Victor Hedman - 54 GP 9-36-45
John Carlson - 52 GP 10-34-44 - 1 game left
Cale Makar - 42 GP 8-35-43 - 2 games left
Jeff Petry - 55 GP 12-30-42 - 1 game left
Shea Theodore - 52 GP 8-34- 42 1 game left
Dougie Hamilton - 55 GP 10-32-42
Jacob Chychrun - 56 GP 18-23-41




Carlson had no points last night. He's finished at 44. Petry's & Theodore's last game tonight.


Carlson misses the layup this season. The Norris was there for the taking! Could not put up the points for it.

Year of the Letang? Pretty good story with him overcoming some bad injuries/health situation.


Hedman wins it, I assume? Makar probably should. Those numbers are amazing.


That's so boring! Need some variety for this lifetime achievement triophy. Wonder what the Rossi guy thinks about Letang deserving it.

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784855 is a reply to message #768235 ]
Tue, 11 May 2021 11:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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@OilersNerdAlert ran some numbers on McDavid and Barrie splits and it doesn't paint a very good picture for re-signing Barrie. There's no way the Oilers should be even considering re-signing Barrie for the numbers he's going to command:

Quote:

I kept them under my hat because it's too close to dinner!

At 5v5 McDavid w Barrie puts up 3.37 p/60. When Barrie steps off the ice, McD's scores at ... 3.95 p/60.

Meanwhile, McDavid's GA/60 rate falls from 3.03 GA/60 to 2.47 GA/60 when Barrie leaves.

AnchorAnchorAnchorAnchorAnchorAnchorAnchorAnchor


https://twitter.com/OilersNerdAlert/status/13919258906494976 03?s=20

The powerplay numbers are really the most surprising to me:

Quote:

Meanwhile on the PP, McDavid scores at 9.03 p/60 with Barrie and ... 10.44 p/60 without Barrie.

I mean, I knew it was bad, but come on.


If he's dragging the 1PP down, then what is he even bringing to the table?

https://twitter.com/OilersNerdAlert/status/13919262202547118 08?s=20

Barrie's numbers are also much worse without McDavid, which should be obvious, but the gaps are significant.

Quote:

He's +4.16 - 3.03 with McDavid.

He's +2.37 - 2.85 without McDavid.

Pointswise, he scores 1.91 p/60 with and 0.79 without.


The top 2 rows are GF/GA per 60.

https://twitter.com/OilersNerdAlert/status/13919397612757360 66?s=20

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784858 is a reply to message #784855 ]
Tue, 11 May 2021 12:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Goose wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 11:44

@OilersNerdAlert ran some numbers on McDavid and Barrie splits and it doesn't paint a very good picture for re-signing Barrie. There's no way the Oilers should be even considering re-signing Barrie for the numbers he's going to command:

Quote:

I kept them under my hat because it's too close to dinner!

At 5v5 McDavid w Barrie puts up 3.37 p/60. When Barrie steps off the ice, McD's scores at ... 3.95 p/60.

Meanwhile, McDavid's GA/60 rate falls from 3.03 GA/60 to 2.47 GA/60 when Barrie leaves.

AnchorAnchorAnchorAnchorAnchorAnchorAnchorAnchor


https://twitter.com/OilersNerdAlert/status/13919258906494976 03?s=20

The powerplay numbers are really the most surprising to me:

Quote:

Meanwhile on the PP, McDavid scores at 9.03 p/60 with Barrie and ... 10.44 p/60 without Barrie.

I mean, I knew it was bad, but come on.


If he's dragging the 1PP down, then what is he even bringing to the table?

https://twitter.com/OilersNerdAlert/status/13919262202547118 08?s=20

Barrie's numbers are also much worse without McDavid, which should be obvious, but the gaps are significant.

Quote:

He's +4.16 - 3.03 with McDavid.

He's +2.37 - 2.85 without McDavid.

Pointswise, he scores 1.91 p/60 with and 0.79 without.


The top 2 rows are GF/GA per 60.

https://twitter.com/OilersNerdAlert/status/13919397612757360 66?s=20



Pretty fair assessment. I think he's been playing against too good of competition 5v5 all year too. His sweet spot is probably a 3rd pair PP specialist, but he's here to rack up points so he can get his 1st pair D retirement contract. We definitely should not be giving that to him. And you cannot discount the motivation he's getting to get that payday. His play could fall off next year, and it will anyways because of age.

Been refraining from Barrie bashing though, because I'm pretty confident he has no intention to extend here. He's here to rack up points and have fun repairing his image. Mission accomplished for how he's gonna be looked at by any team desperate for an offensive RHD. We're best off letting someone else overpay him and trying to find another offensive guy looking to sign cheap to do what Barrie did on a team with McDrai.

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- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784862 is a reply to message #784858 ]
Tue, 11 May 2021 12:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike is currently offline Mike
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 15:13

We're best off letting someone else overpay him and trying to find another offensive guy looking to sign cheap to do what Barrie did on a team with McDrai.


I mean I agree to an extent - I am betting he and his agent are already making plans for after the UFA bonanza, but many other guys have played with McDrai, and nobody has really come close to what Barrie has done this year. Personally I believe Bouchard could do it (I think I became a bit of a fanboy in just his 13 games). But the problem is, nobody has before. Barrie has worked out about as well as any of us could have hoped for.

If I'm Holland, I have a line in the sand. Barrie and his camp will obviously have one too. Sadly I believe Barrie's line will be at the other end of the beach. But if they can figure something out for somewhat of a team friendly deal, then I'm all for it. As a 2nd/3rd pair PP specialist, we haven't had such a nice fit in a long time.

My guess is someone gives him something like $7X7 with NMC. And THAT I want no part of. As good of a fit as he is, he turns 30 in a couple of months.

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784863 is a reply to message #784862 ]
Tue, 11 May 2021 12:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner is currently offline mightyreasoner
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Mike wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 12:40

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 15:13

We're best off letting someone else overpay him and trying to find another offensive guy looking to sign cheap to do what Barrie did on a team with McDrai.


I mean I agree to an extent - I am betting he and his agent are already making plans for after the UFA bonanza, but many other guys have played with McDrai, and nobody has really come close to what Barrie has done this year. Personally I believe Bouchard could do it (I think I became a bit of a fanboy in just his 13 games). But the problem is, nobody has before. Barrie has worked out about as well as any of us could have hoped for.

If I'm Holland, I have a line in the sand. Barrie and his camp will obviously have one too. Sadly I believe Barrie's line will be at the other end of the beach. But if they can figure something out for somewhat of a team friendly deal, then I'm all for it. As a 2nd/3rd pair PP specialist, we haven't had such a nice fit in a long time.

My guess is someone gives him something like $7X7 with NMC. And THAT I want no part of. As good of a fit as he is, he turns 30 in a couple of months.


Yeah, this is me too. I'd love to find a way to make it work between the camps. But I imagine there will be a gulf. I'm not as convinced Bouchard can step in right away and produce at that rate, and I do think the Oilers will lose something if Barrie leaves. But, like every contract decisions, there is a cost/benefit consideration, and it might be too much.

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784864 is a reply to message #784862 ]
Tue, 11 May 2021 12:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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Mike wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 12:40

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 15:13

We're best off letting someone else overpay him and trying to find another offensive guy looking to sign cheap to do what Barrie did on a team with McDrai.


I mean I agree to an extent - I am betting he and his agent are already making plans for after the UFA bonanza, but many other guys have played with McDrai, and nobody has really come close to what Barrie has done this year. Personally I believe Bouchard could do it (I think I became a bit of a fanboy in just his 13 games). But the problem is, nobody has before. Barrie has worked out about as well as any of us could have hoped for.

If I'm Holland, I have a line in the sand. Barrie and his camp will obviously have one too. Sadly I believe Barrie's line will be at the other end of the beach. But if they can figure something out for somewhat of a team friendly deal, then I'm all for it. As a 2nd/3rd pair PP specialist, we haven't had such a nice fit in a long time.

My guess is someone gives him something like $7X7 with NMC. And THAT I want no part of. As good of a fit as he is, he turns 30 in a couple of months.


I think one thing that probably should be pointed out at as well is that there is some luck involved in Barrie's production. In terms of production per 60 minutes, for primary points (goals and first assists), his production is close to many of his previous years. The real boost to his stat line this year has been getting almost twice as many 2nd assists per 60 as any of his previous years. He's had 5 better seasons in Colorado for primary points/60 than his season with us. Maybe that can be turned into an argument to keep him :) But, I think age and ability to handle good competition needs to be considered for the term/price he'll be asking for.

I know 2nd assists count too, but I think most analysis shows they are a very unreliable way to try to predict performance, especially if your name is Nikita Zaitsev ;).

Kidding aside, I personally can't shake the perspective of Barries season here as a great combination of McDavid going supernova, Barrier being as motivated as many he's ever seen, and also a dash of luck to boost those assist stats. McDavid being awesome is probably sustainable. The motivation factor might not be. The 2nd assist probably can still come at a decent rate as long as he keeps getting ice time with McDavid, but probably falls next year. He's #1 in the NHL among D for 2nd assists/60.

[Updated on: Tue, 11 May 2021 12:55]

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"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784860 is a reply to message #784855 ]
Tue, 11 May 2021 12:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner is currently offline mightyreasoner
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I saw those OilersNerdAlert numbers last night, but I'm taking them with a little grain of salt too. I'm not sure we're really getting a clear picture with the data he presented. He came in with a bias and has presented as such, IMO.

For example, how many minutes has McDavid played without Barrie on the powerplay? I'm trying to find the data, but my guess is the sample size is a lot smaller, and that they've played a lot more together... which certainly could impact the data. Smaller samples can exaggerate differences or similarities that change with time.

Same could really be said for smaller sample size of data with other defenseman he has played with since to my eye Barrie and Nurse have played a lot more with McDavid than others (which also begs the question how Nurse compares. Do we dump him also?). McDavid needs to have a few good shifts with a few defesemen he normally doesn't play with to really shift that data. I'd love to see total minutes played with each of the defensman if that is available.

To be honest, I do find the Barrie-bashing annoying a bit. Only in Edmonton (and maybe Toronto) do you have the top two scorers in the NHL, the top defenseman in scoring, they are dramatically outscoring opposition when on the ice, and playing them together is controversial. I'd hate to see what some people would have done to Paul Coffey.

The top of the Oilers lineup (McDavid, Draisaitl, Nurse, Barrie, Smith) is producing at a rate we haven't seen since the 1980s. I've never watched them produce at this rate, so finding the rainy cloud in a blue sky isn't really for me right now.

And I do believe this - if any defenseman could do what Barrie has done this year, I imagine they would have. He is producing points at nearly double the rate any other defenseman McDavid has played with in his career has. McDavid is having a career year, and no doubt all this is linked... but perhaps Barrie getting the puck to McDavid with more frequency shouldn't be entirely dismissed out of hand.

I'm not even suggesting Barrie is incredible or this really complete defenseman. But despite how OilersNerdAlert presented things, he seems to work with well with McDavid, and I think we will lose some offensive production if Barrie leaves. If that's the case, you are actually probably hoping that the Oilers allow LESS goals than that they score MORE goals.

I could be wrong, but I think sample sizes need to be questions when looking at that data. If someone has the minutes played with each defenseman, that could be interesting, and if they are close, would be more of an apples to apples comparison.

[Updated on: Tue, 11 May 2021 13:03]

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784888 is a reply to message #784860 ]
Tue, 11 May 2021 16:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose is currently offline Goose
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mightyreasoner wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 11:33

I saw those OilersNerdAlert numbers last night, but I'm taking them with a little grain of salt too. I'm not sure we're really getting a clear picture with the data he presented. He came in with a bias and has presented as such, IMO.

For example, how many minutes has McDavid played without Barrie on the powerplay? I'm trying to find the data, but my guess is the sample size is a lot smaller, and that they've played a lot more together... which certainly could impact the data. Smaller samples can exaggerate differences or similarities that change with time.

Same could really be said for smaller sample size of data with other defenseman he has played with since to my eye Barrie and Nurse have played a lot more with McDavid than others (which also begs the question how Nurse compares. Do we dump him also?). McDavid needs to have a few good shifts with a few defesemen he normally doesn't play with to really shift that data. I'd love to see total minutes played with each of the defensman if that is available.

To be honest, I do find the Barrie-bashing annoying a bit. Only in Edmonton (and maybe Toronto) do you have the top two scorers in the NHL, the top defenseman in scoring, they are dramatically outscoring opposition when on the ice, and playing them together is controversial. I'd hate to see what some people would have done to Paul Coffey.

The top of the Oilers lineup (McDavid, Draisaitl, Nurse, Barrie, Smith) is producing at a rate we haven't seen since the 1980s. I've never watched them produce at this rate, so finding the rainy cloud in a blue sky isn't really for me right now.

And I do believe this - if any defenseman could do what Barrie has done this year, I imagine they would have. He is producing points at nearly double the rate any other defenseman McDavid has played with in his career has. McDavid is having a career year, and no doubt all this is linked... but perhaps Barrie getting the puck to McDavid with more frequency shouldn't be entirely dismissed out of hand.

I'm not even suggesting Barrie is incredible or this really complete defenseman. But despite how OilersNerdAlert presented things, he seems to work with well with McDavid, and I think we will lose some offensive production if Barrie leaves. If that's the case, you are actually probably hoping that the Oilers allow LESS goals than that they score MORE goals.

I could be wrong, but I think sample sizes need to be questions when looking at that data. If someone has the minutes played with each defenseman, that could be interesting, and if they are close, would be more of an apples to apples comparison.


I'm coming at this from the perspective as to whether the Oilers should be considering signing Barrie or not. Based on what I've seen, I don't think they should, definitely not if the number is $7M. I don't even think they should do it at $5M if the term is more than 3 years. If you want to call that Barrie bashing, that's fine, and I get that the Oilers are doing well so people would rather focus on that but it's nothing personal against Tyson Barrie. He's definitely made the most of the situation he's been given so full credit to him there.

I think the sample size question on the PP is a fair one. Naturalstattrick has all of those breakdowns. McDavid has 181 minutes on the PP this year with Barrie and 46 minutes without Barrie. So sample sizes are not big. At the same time, if you had asked anyone where they thought that Barrie would have the biggest impact on the Oilers, they would have said on the PP. So the fact that McDavid scores more on the PP when Barrie isn't on the ice isn't a great sign.

At 5x5, part of the problem is that Barrie (and Nurse) play so much with McDavid that the other defencemen don't have a lot of time with him.

Here is the breakdown of the defencmen on the team and their minutes and scoring rates with McDavid 5x5:

Nurse: 652 min - 1.75pts/60 (a lot of those minutes are with Barrie also)
Barrie: 546min - 1.87pts/60
Bear: 174 min - 2.06pts/60
Larsson: 141 min - 0.00 pts/60
Russell: 116 min - 2.04 pts/60
Jones: 73 min - 1.63 pts/60

So to say that Barrie's scoring rates with McDavid are unprecedented, maybe that's true from an absolute perspective, but it's definitely not true from a scoring rate perspective this year. And is it fair to compare to any other year given that McDavid, at 5x5, is scoring at almost 0.5pts/60 higher this year than in any previous year (and 0.77pts/60 higher than he was last year)?

Would I like to see more minutes from Bear with McDavid to know whether that number is sustainable? Sure. But Kr55 has already talked about Barrie's 2nd assist rate. Notable that Bear's 2nd assist rate with McDavid is just over half that of Barrie's (0.69/60 vs 1.1/60). Personally, I would have no problem with Bear replacing Barrie as the top RHD in terms of minutes with McDavid, and I don't think the Oilers lose anything in that scenario. I think Bear is a better passer than Barrie, and I think he has a higher hockey IQ.

There's just nothing about Barrie's numbers that scream to me he's somehow unlocked anything with McDavid. Sure, they seem to be working fine together, but I give the lion's share of the credit to McDavid who is right in the middle of what is historically a forward's peak production years (I commented before about comparing Gretzky's points trajectory to where McDavid is), as opposed to Barrie.

Here's where I pulled the numbers for Bear and Barrie, you can play around with the filters to look at anyone else:

https://www.naturalstattrick.com/playerreport.php?fromseason =20202021&thruseason=20202021&stype=2&sit=5v5&am p;stdoi=std&rate=y&v=t&playerid=8478451

https://www.naturalstattrick.com/playerreport.php?fromseason =20202021&thruseason=20202021&stype=2&sit=5v5&am p;stdoi=std&rate=y&v=t&playerid=8475197

[Updated on: Tue, 11 May 2021 16:35]

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784892 is a reply to message #784888 ]
Tue, 11 May 2021 17:02 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 3685
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Goose wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 16:31

mightyreasoner wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 11:33

I saw those OilersNerdAlert numbers last night, but I'm taking them with a little grain of salt too. I'm not sure we're really getting a clear picture with the data he presented. He came in with a bias and has presented as such, IMO.

For example, how many minutes has McDavid played without Barrie on the powerplay? I'm trying to find the data, but my guess is the sample size is a lot smaller, and that they've played a lot more together... which certainly could impact the data. Smaller samples can exaggerate differences or similarities that change with time.

Same could really be said for smaller sample size of data with other defenseman he has played with since to my eye Barrie and Nurse have played a lot more with McDavid than others (which also begs the question how Nurse compares. Do we dump him also?). McDavid needs to have a few good shifts with a few defesemen he normally doesn't play with to really shift that data. I'd love to see total minutes played with each of the defensman if that is available.

To be honest, I do find the Barrie-bashing annoying a bit. Only in Edmonton (and maybe Toronto) do you have the top two scorers in the NHL, the top defenseman in scoring, they are dramatically outscoring opposition when on the ice, and playing them together is controversial. I'd hate to see what some people would have done to Paul Coffey.

The top of the Oilers lineup (McDavid, Draisaitl, Nurse, Barrie, Smith) is producing at a rate we haven't seen since the 1980s. I've never watched them produce at this rate, so finding the rainy cloud in a blue sky isn't really for me right now.

And I do believe this - if any defenseman could do what Barrie has done this year, I imagine they would have. He is producing points at nearly double the rate any other defenseman McDavid has played with in his career has. McDavid is having a career year, and no doubt all this is linked... but perhaps Barrie getting the puck to McDavid with more frequency shouldn't be entirely dismissed out of hand.

I'm not even suggesting Barrie is incredible or this really complete defenseman. But despite how OilersNerdAlert presented things, he seems to work with well with McDavid, and I think we will lose some offensive production if Barrie leaves. If that's the case, you are actually probably hoping that the Oilers allow LESS goals than that they score MORE goals.

I could be wrong, but I think sample sizes need to be questions when looking at that data. If someone has the minutes played with each defenseman, that could be interesting, and if they are close, would be more of an apples to apples comparison.


I'm coming at this from the perspective as to whether the Oilers should be considering signing Barrie or not. Based on what I've seen, I don't think they should, definitely not if the number is $7M. I don't even think they should do it at $5M if the term is more than 3 years. If you want to call that Barrie bashing, that's fine, and I get that the Oilers are doing well so people would rather focus on that but it's nothing personal against Tyson Barrie. He's definitely made the most of the situation he's been given so full credit to him there.

I think the sample size question on the PP is a fair one. Naturalstattrick has all of those breakdowns. McDavid has 181 minutes on the PP this year with Barrie and 46 minutes without Barrie. So sample sizes are not big. At the same time, if you had asked anyone where they thought that Barrie would have the biggest impact on the Oilers, they would have said on the PP. So the fact that McDavid scores more on the PP when Barrie isn't on the ice isn't a great sign.

At 5x5, part of the problem is that Barrie (and Nurse) play so much with McDavid that the other defencemen don't have a lot of time with him.

Here is the breakdown of the defencmen on the team and their minutes and scoring rates with McDavid 5x5:

Nurse: 652 min - 1.75pts/60 (a lot of those minutes are with Barrie also)
Barrie: 546min - 1.87pts/60
Bear: 174 min - 2.06pts/60
Larsson: 141 min - 0.00 pts/60
Russell: 116 min - 2.04 pts/60
Jones: 73 min - 1.63 pts/60

So to say that Barrie's scoring rates with McDavid are unprecedented, maybe that's true from an absolute perspective, but it's definitely not true from a scoring rate perspective this year. And is it fair to compare to any other year given that McDavid, at 5x5, is scoring at almost 0.5pts/60 higher this year than in any previous year (and 0.77pts/60 higher than he was last year)?

Would I like to see more minutes from Bear with McDavid to know whether that number is sustainable? Sure. But Kr55 has already talked about Barrie's 2nd assist rate. Notable that Bear's 2nd assist rate with McDavid is just over half that of Barrie's (0.69/60 vs 1.1/60). Personally, I would have no problem with Bear replacing Barrie as the top RHD in terms of minutes with McDavid, and I don't think the Oilers lose anything in that scenario. I think Bear is a better passer than Barrie, and I think he has a higher hockey IQ.

There's just nothing about Barrie's numbers that scream to me he's somehow unlocked anything with McDavid. Sure, they seem to be working fine together, but I give the lion's share of the credit to McDavid who is right in the middle of what is historically a forward's peak production years (I commented before about comparing Gretzky's points trajectory to where McDavid is), as opposed to Barrie.

Here's where I pulled the numbers for Bear and Barrie, you can play around with the filters to look at anyone else:

https://www.naturalstattrick.com/playerreport.php?fromseason =20202021&thruseason=20202021&stype=2&sit=5v5&am p;am p;am p;stdoi=std&rate=y&v=t&playerid=8478451

https://www.naturalstattrick.com/playerreport.php?fromseason =20202021&thruseason=20202021&stype=2&sit=5v5&am p;am p;am p;stdoi=std&rate=y&v=t&playerid=8475197

I totally do not get how some people like to completely discredit a "second assist" as if it's completely meaningless. I think it's utterly ridiculous.

The puck is in the Oilers zone. Barrie gets the puck, fires a tape to tape pass to whoever at the center line. That forward takes the puck into the offensive zone, fires a pass to the shooter and a goal is scored.

Does that breakout pass to not only get out of your zone but to start the play mean nothing? If that pass that is the "secondary assist" isn't made, the play does not happen. I don't mean to come off harsh but it's honestly one of the most ridiculous arguments I have seen and it's not just in here, I see it a ton. Of all the fan bases, I would think that Oilers fans of all fan bases would appreciate the "second assist" the most because how many years did we see the Oilers break out being the dman just fire it up the boards or off the glass and hope for the best. Now we have dman that can make an actual break out pass on the tape to our forward in stride to start an offensive rush and fans now scoff at the "secondary assist" that started the whole sequence.

Every time McD sends a pass on the PP to the point man, the point man shoots and a goal is scored by a tip or rebound, those same people scoffing at Barrie's "secondary assist" better be scoffing at McD's.

[Updated on: Tue, 11 May 2021 17:03]

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 Re: Tyson Barrie Signs w/ Oilers [message #784898 is a reply to message #784892 ]
Tue, 11 May 2021 17:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose is currently offline Goose
Messages: 1098
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 16:02

Goose wrote on Tue, 11 May 2021 16:31


I'm coming at this from the perspective as to whether the Oilers should be considering signing Barrie or not. Based on what I've seen, I don't think they should, definitely not if the number is $7M. I don't even think they should do it at $5M if the term is more than 3 years. If you want to call that Barrie bashing, that's fine, and I get that the Oilers are doing well so people would rather focus on that but it's nothing personal against Tyson Barrie. He's definitely made the most of the situation he's been given so full credit to him there.

I think the sample size question on the PP is a fair one. Naturalstattrick has all of those breakdowns. McDavid has 181 minutes on the PP this year with Barrie and 46 minutes without Barrie. So sample sizes are not big. At the same time, if you had asked anyone where they thought that Barrie would have the biggest impact on the Oilers, they would have said on the PP. So the fact that McDavid scores more on the PP when Barrie isn't on the ice isn't a great sign.

At 5x5, part of the problem is that Barrie (and Nurse) play so much with McDavid that the other defencemen don't have a lot of time with him.

Here is the breakdown of the defencmen on the team and their minutes and scoring rates with McDavid 5x5:

Nurse: 652 min - 1.75pts/60 (a lot of those minutes are with Barrie also)
Barrie: 546min - 1.87pts/60
Bear: 174 min - 2.06pts/60
Larsson: 141 min - 0.00 pts/60
Russell: 116 min - 2.04 pts/60
Jones: 73 min - 1.63 pts/60

So to say that Barrie's scoring rates with McDavid are unprecedented, maybe that's true from an absolute perspective, but it's definitely not true from a scoring rate perspective this year. And is it fair to compare to any other year given that McDavid, at 5x5, is scoring at almost 0.5pts/60 higher this year than in any previous year (and 0.77pts/60 higher than he was last year)?

Would I like to see more minutes from Bear with McDavid to know whether that number is sustainable? Sure. But Kr55 has already talked about Barrie's 2nd assist rate. Notable that Bear's 2nd assist rate with McDavid is just over half that of Barrie's (0.69/60 vs 1.1/60). Personally, I would have no problem with Bear replacing Barrie as the top RHD in terms of minutes with McDavid, and I don't think the Oilers lose anything in that scenario. I think Bear is a better passer than Barrie, and I think he has a higher hockey IQ.

There's just nothing about Barrie's numbers that scream to me he's somehow unlocked anything with McDavid. Sure, they seem to be working fine together, but I give the lion's share of the credit to McDavid who is right in the middle of what is historically a forward's peak production years (I commented before about comparing Gretzky's points trajectory to where McDavid is), as opposed to Barrie.

Here's where I pulled the numbers for Bear and Barrie, you can play around with the filters to look at anyone else:

https://www.naturalstattrick.com/playerreport.php?fromseason =20202021&thruseason=20202021&stype=2&sit=5v5&am p;am p;am p;am p;stdoi=std&rate=y&v=t&playerid=8478451

https://www.naturalstattrick.com/playerreport.php?fromseason =20202021&thruseason=20202021&stype=2&sit=5v5&am p;am p;am p;am p;stdoi=std&rate=y&v=t&playerid=8475197

I totally do not get how some people like to completely discredit a "second assist" as if it's completely meaningless. I think it's utterly ridiculous.

The puck is in the Oilers zone. Barrie gets the puck, fires a tape to tape pass to whoever at the center line. That forward takes the puck into the offensive zone, fires a pass to the shooter and a goal is scored.

Does that breakout pass to not only get out of your zone but to start the play mean nothing? If that pass that is the "secondary assist" isn't made, the play does not happen. I don't mean to come off harsh but it's honestly one of the most ridiculous arguments I have seen and it's not just in here, I see it a ton. Of all the fan bases, I would think that Oilers fans of all fan bases would appreciate the "second assist" the most because how many years did we see the Oilers break out being the dman just fire it up the boards or off the glass and hope for the best. Now we have dman that can make an actual break out pass on the tape to our forward in stride to start an offensive rush and fans now scoff at the "secondary assist" that started the whole sequence.

Every time McD sends a pass on the PP to the point man, the point man shoots and a goal is scored by a tip or rebound, those same people scoffing at Barrie's "secondary assist" better be scoffing at McD's.


Nobody is discrediting 2nd assists or saying they're, "completely meaningless". However, it has been shown that 2nd assists are less repeatable, and therefore less likely to predict future performance than goals or 1st assists. That's not to say that they have zero predictive value, just less than the other two.

So if we're trying to predict whether Bear's scoring totals with McDavid would be repeatable next year if Barrie wasn't there, that's one factor to consider (TOI, competition and teammates would be others). The fact that Bear's 2nd assist rate with McDavid is low compared to Barrie's is one indication that if Bear were to increase his minutes with McDavid that it is more likely that he would be able to maintain a similar scoring rate than if he had a high 2nd assists rate this year, with the biggest caveat being that I think McDavid has a huge impact, so if he has a lesser year than this year, Bear's numbers will be down.

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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