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 Re: James Neal for Lucic trade [message #740772 is a reply to message #740770 ]
Sat, 20 July 2019 12:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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6 Cups

Adam wrote on Sat, 20 July 2019 11:33


I never got the sense that Lucic is exactly a Rhodes scholar. I think he’s along the same lines as Ryan Smyth. Not smart, and with a big sense of entitlement from hearing so many times how great he is, what a leader he is, etc. but without actually having much for real leadership qualities other than trying hard. Lucic, like Ference before him, was cast as a dressing room leader before being in the dressing room and without even knowing most of the guys yet. He’s not an overly charismatic guy, and so I think it unlikely his mere presence inspired anyone.

Apparently Matt Benning told an event several months ago that he and Caggiula were taken for lunch by Lucic in their rookie season. At that lunch he told them that they weren’t going to be friends because they might get traded or not make it and Lucic didn’t really want to get attached. The story was told in an entertaining way - this weird thing happened to me at work sort of thing - but still...

Apparently Neal can be prickly and arrogant and hasn’t always fit in to dressing rooms too but I think the change here is better for everyone (and really, I’m just still so thrilled Lucic is gone.)


Hehe, wow, that's...a weird story. I assume he is not saying he will get attached, but rather he is implying that these young kids might get too attached to his amazinness and he doesn't want to have to break their poor little hearts.

I guess the only real positives we have heard about Lucic's influence was about his fitness level.

Would love to know how he interacted with Jesse :) Nielen on 1260 is claiming that Looch was yelling at Pulju all the time.

[Updated on: Sat, 20 July 2019 13:18]


"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

"In Brad we trust"
- All Oilers fans, Present Day

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 Re: James Neal for Lucic trade [message #740773 is a reply to message #740772 ]
Sat, 20 July 2019 13:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Pseudoreality  is currently offline Pseudoreality
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If Neal manages to score 20 goals this coming year, which is very possible, he becomes a tradeable asset that could fetch a 3rd round pick, as opposed to a toxic asset like Lucic is. I would trade him if he pots 20 goals and then the Oilers will have dumped Lucic for $750k retained. That's not bad.


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 Re: James Neal for Lucic trade [message #740747 is a reply to message #740733 ]
Fri, 19 July 2019 20:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Kr55 wrote on Fri, 19 July 2019 18:58

The Looch has spoken:
https://www.nhl.com/flames/news/play-my-game-play-hard-be-ph ysical/c-308305740

Quote:

"What I wanted,'' the newest Flame, Milan Lucic, is explaining from the family's off-season ocean-side digs in Manhattan Beach, Calif., "is to walk into a situation where I could just focus on playing and helping the team win.

"When I arrived in Edmonton three years ago I was really excited, believe me. I wanted it to work, so badly, but - in retrospect - maybe I put too much on my plate.

"Looking back now, I think I put too much pressure on myself, trying to be this … guy.

"This leader. This player. This power forward. This big presence off the ice. All this type of stuff.

"I didn't feel like myself at all.

"I'm not blaming anyone there for that. Whatsoever. I just bit off more than I could chew.

"And I think in this situation I can just be myself. Just go about my business; play my game. Play hard. Be physical. Be a good teammate.

"That was definitely one of the things really appealing for me."

...

"In order for me to move on from Edmonton it was important to go to a contending team, a team that was playing meaningful hockey on a night-to-night basis,'' he emphasizes. "Throughout my career that's brought out the best in me and in my game.

"This is a bit more of an older team, with an older captain, which I had in Boston with Zdeno (Chara). Gio is coming off his best year, winning the Norris Trophy - and deservedly so. That's a great starting point for any team.

"Missing the playoffs three of the last four years … I don't want to do that anymore. As I said, I want to be playing meaningful hockey on a night-to-night basis and with the excitement and energy I can bring I think this will revitalize me and help this team take the next step."


I guess he thinks the Flames are a better situation for him to be a passenger and still be able to be a part of winning.

Could be right.



If you wanted to play meaningful hockey Lucic, how about you score more than 6 freaking goals and 20 its while making 6 mill you #$)A+##!!). What a piece of work.

What expectations did he think was on him that he couldn't do? He was brought in to be a big, physical, tough, power forward who hovered around 20 goals, 45-50 pts and bring some vet experience. Just like he had done all the years prior. If he had of done that, everyone would have been happy. No one was expecting him to be a 40 goal, 80 pt guy. Just be your normal self. He was exactly that his first year and no problems.

Why couldn't he just man up and tell the truth. He came to Edmonton, found out it was harder than he thought and he played lousy. Instead me made up some bs excuse pretending he was brought into be a saviour? Who the hell said he was a saviour. We got Connor freaking McDavid. All he had to be was normal Lucic. If Lucic thinks he can roll into Calgary, bang a few bodies, swear at a few people while putting up 4th liner numbers and all the fans in Calgary will be singing his praises, he is sadly mistaken.

The Calgary media is no better than Edmonton's. I listen to Calgary radio all the time and they HATED on Hamilton. All Hamilton did was put up close to 50 pts a season and they ragged on him constantly for being too soft.

[Updated on: Fri, 19 July 2019 20:17]


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 Re: James Neal for Lucic trade [message #740738 is a reply to message #740652 ]
Fri, 19 July 2019 19:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
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It's a miracle. Seriously, I didn't think there was anyway that Lucic contract could be moved.

Worst case, Neal is a bust. The Oilers break even, have a contract that doesn't have a NMC, no expansion or AHL protections, and isn't buyout proof. It's an automatic win with how the contract is structured.

Best case, Neal bounces back, gets 20+, and the Oilers give up a third round pick.



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 Re: James Neal for Lucic trade [message #740741 is a reply to message #740738 ]
Fri, 19 July 2019 19:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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mightyreasoner wrote on Fri, 19 July 2019 19:18

It's a miracle. Seriously, I didn't think there was anyway that Lucic contract could be moved.

Worst case, Neal is a bust. The Oilers break even, have a contract that doesn't have a NMC, no expansion or AHL protections, and isn't buyout proof. It's an automatic win with how the contract is structured.

Best case, Neal bounces back, gets 20+, and the Oilers give up a third round pick.


I just don’t understand why Calgary would do that deal, or why they’d agree to keep the no-move in place. That’s a gift that’ll keep on giving.

It is likely that there’s times in the next four years where James Neal will be reviled in Edmonton. That deal is too long and too rich for what he brings the team now. But we will always have the comfort that at least it’s not Lucic who is going to look even worse during that time!



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: James Neal for Lucic trade [message #740739 is a reply to message #740652 ]
Fri, 19 July 2019 19:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hemmer2Eberle  is currently offline Hemmer2Eberle
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It's time for Holland to get a statue next to Wayne. Get it done Katz.


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 Re: James Neal for Lucic trade [message #740740 is a reply to message #740652 ]
Fri, 19 July 2019 19:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
K.McC#24  is currently offline K.McC#24
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A won deal. Haven't seen that for awhile around here.

It's a win in terms of the better player coming back, in terms of expansion protection, and in terms of buyout options. Lucic under different circumstances would be an immediate candidate for buyout, Neal is not there yet.

A couple friends who are Flames fans are losing their minds.



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 Re: James Neal for Lucic trade [message #740742 is a reply to message #740740 ]
Fri, 19 July 2019 19:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hemmer2Eberle  is currently offline Hemmer2Eberle
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There is 2 types of Lames fans right now... the ones that know they got bent over a barrel... and the ones that are trying to rationalize it, but inside knownthey got bent over a barrel.

The ones rationalizing it, have me in stitches right now. One kid told me we'd regret this trade more then anything. I didnt even have to respond, other Flamers fans jumped him for me.



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 Re: James Neal for Lucic trade [message #740743 is a reply to message #740740 ]
Fri, 19 July 2019 19:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76  is currently offline inverno76
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Still trying to figure out what the catch is. When a deal is too good to be true, it usually is.

That being said. Hall for Larsson. Eberle for Strome. Strome for Spooner....

Maybe we just have a better GM than I’m accustomed too?

I haven’t visited Calgary Puck since the terms were announced. It was a tire fire before. Can’t see the NMC clause being honoured and the conditional 3rd helping things.



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 Re: James Neal for Lucic trade [message #740745 is a reply to message #740743 ]
Fri, 19 July 2019 19:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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So the deal is Lucic, a conditional 3rd and 12.5% retained for Neal. In order for the 3rd to be given, Neal has to score at least 21 goals and Lucic has to score at least 10 fewer goals.

I expected Neal to bounce back with the Flames. Apparently he's working out with Gary Roberts and McDavid from what I saw on Twitter. So given at worse he will be with Nuge plus get some PP and other than this past season, he was a lock to score 20 goals, I'd say 21 is pretty attainable. If he gets time was McDavid, it will definitely happen. I'd also say that Lucic being 10 goals behind Neal is also a lock given if he scored 12 as an Oiler, I would dance in the street. So I'd say they will have to give up a 3rd rounder.

If someone came to me and said to get rid of Lucic it will cost you a 3rd round pick, adding an additional 500K to your cap but you get back a guy who will probably score 20+ goals, I'd do that all day long.

Calgary apparently is even honouring his NMC. icon_lol

I think this is a win, a BIG win for the Oilers.



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 Re: James Neal for Lucic trade [message #740746 is a reply to message #740743 ]
Fri, 19 July 2019 19:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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inverno76 wrote on Fri, 19 July 2019 19:47

Still trying to figure out what the catch is. When a deal is too good to be true, it usually is.

That being said. Hall for Larsson. Eberle for Strome. Strome for Spooner....

Maybe we just have a better GM than I’m accustomed too?

I haven’t visited Calgary Puck since the terms were announced. It was a tire fire before. Can’t see the NMC clause being honoured and the conditional 3rd helping things.


Hahahahaha...there’s over 50 pages there already!?!? Hahahahahaha!

Today is like Christmas.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: James Neal for Lucic trade [message #740748 is a reply to message #740746 ]
Fri, 19 July 2019 20:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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I saw on Twitter Calgary's version of Mark Spector Eric Francis praising the trade calling it just what the Flames need. A big, physical, tough winger with cup experience that can protect Johnny. That's the same crap that was said when Lucic was signed here.

Now I know for sure it's a good trade for the Oilers. I still can't believe it.



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 Re: James Neal for Lucic trade [message #740750 is a reply to message #740652 ]
Fri, 19 July 2019 20:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
overdue  is currently offline overdue
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Can't believe it actually happened. I can understand Lucic wanting out of Edmonton badly enough to waive due to fan and media pressure. At first I thought , a dud for a dud , both with badly bloated contracts, but when you really look at it, Neil has been fairly consistent throughout his career. He was good in Vegas and will likely be motivated to prove the Flames wrong and also still has the tools to be a valuable player. A player that can actually score you some much needed goals. Big win by Holland for the Oilers. Looch will likely show pretty well early in his new situation but I can't see him sustaining a high level of play for long.


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 Re: James Neal for Lucic trade [message #740752 is a reply to message #740652 ]
Fri, 19 July 2019 21:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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So is it $125K retained or 12.5% retained? I’ve seen both...clearly it would be much better if it’s the former...


"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: James Neal for Lucic trade [message #740753 is a reply to message #740752 ]
Fri, 19 July 2019 22:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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Adam wrote on Fri, 19 July 2019 21:17

So is it $125K retained or 12.5% retained? I’ve seen both...clearly it would be much better if it’s the former...

12.5%

$750,000



You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: James Neal for Lucic trade [message #740754 is a reply to message #740753 ]
Fri, 19 July 2019 23:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Fri, 19 July 2019 22:44

Adam wrote on Fri, 19 July 2019 21:17

So is it $125K retained or 12.5% retained? I’ve seen both...clearly it would be much better if it’s the former...

12.5%

$750,000


If we were to dump Neal in the minors, he, plus Lucic's retained, becomes a 5.425M cap hit.

I think part of the retaining is the fact that Lucic demanded Calgary to honour the NMC before Lucic would waive it to be traded. Not retaining would mean we could dump Neal in the minors and he's just a 4.675M cap hit. Which is actually better than buying Lucic out for multiple years :) And the flames would be stuck with Lucic and his unmovable 6M.

As a great GM once said, it's the price you have to pay. Actually reasonable in this case.



"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

"In Brad we trust"
- All Oilers fans, Present Day

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 Re: James Neal for Lucic trade [message #740755 is a reply to message #740752 ]
Fri, 19 July 2019 23:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ragnarok73  is currently offline Ragnarok73
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Adam wrote on Fri, 19 July 2019 21:17

So is it $125K retained or 12.5% retained? I’ve seen both...clearly it would be much better if it’s the former...

Even at 12.5% retained, this is clearly looking like a win for the Oil. Maybe, just maybe, Holland could work out, because he managed to do the impossible by offloading the biggest boat anchor to this team's cap situation. I'm still stunned at how Treliving agreed to this move- it's not like he didn't get to see Loo for much of the past few seasons....



"There's no greater springboard to development than failure." - Craig MacTavish, April 13/15.

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 Re: James Neal for Lucic trade [message #740756 is a reply to message #740755 ]
Sat, 20 July 2019 00:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Ragnarok73 wrote on Fri, 19 July 2019 23:52

Adam wrote on Fri, 19 July 2019 21:17

So is it $125K retained or 12.5% retained? I’ve seen both...clearly it would be much better if it’s the former...

Even at 12.5% retained, this is clearly looking like a win for the Oil. Maybe, just maybe, Holland could work out, because he managed to do the impossible by offloading the biggest boat anchor to this team's cap situation. I'm still stunned at how Treliving agreed to this move- it's not like he didn't get to see Loo for much of the past few seasons....


Maybe he couldn't help himself. He needed to see a rematch between Mike Smith and Looch.



"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

"In Brad we trust"
- All Oilers fans, Present Day

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 Re: James Neal for Lucic trade [message #740757 is a reply to message #740755 ]
Sat, 20 July 2019 00:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm  is currently offline nullterm
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Ragnarok73 wrote on Fri, 19 July 2019 22:52

Adam wrote on Fri, 19 July 2019 21:17

So is it $125K retained or 12.5% retained? I’ve seen both...clearly it would be much better if it’s the former...

Even at 12.5% retained, this is clearly looking like a win for the Oil. Maybe, just maybe, Holland could work out, because he managed to do the impossible by offloading the biggest boat anchor to this team's cap situation. I'm still stunned at how Treliving agreed to this move- it's not like he didn't get to see Loo for much of the past few seasons....


I guess that's the advantage of Lucic being completely invisible these last two seasons.



Illegitimi non carborundum.

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 Re: James Neal for Lucic trade [message #740766 is a reply to message #740757 ]
Sat, 20 July 2019 10:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Suomalainen  is currently offline Suomalainen
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Ba-dum tish.

Even if Lucic tears it up in Calgary, he wasn't going to do that here - he pretty much alluded to that in his interview. As long as Neil doesn't pull a Toby Rieder, it's at least a net positive for the team.

Just keeping expectations low.



97.

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 Re: James Neal for Lucic trade [message #740767 is a reply to message #740766 ]
Sat, 20 July 2019 10:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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Suomalainen wrote on Sat, 20 July 2019 10:08

Ba-dum tish.

Even if Lucic tears it up in Calgary, he wasn't going to do that here - he pretty much alluded to that in his interview. As long as Neil doesn't pull a Toby Rieder, it's at least a net positive for the team.

Just keeping expectations low.

You don’t want a repeat of the glorious ride Toby took us on last year? The whole “will he?wont he?” feeling? I was at a game late in the season and that cheeky Rieder got two breakaways! The suspense was unreal.



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 Re: James Neal for Lucic trade [message #740768 is a reply to message #740766 ]
Sat, 20 July 2019 10:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Suomalainen wrote on Sat, 20 July 2019 10:08

Ba-dum tish.

Even if Lucic tears it up in Calgary, he wasn't going to do that here - he pretty much alluded to that in his interview. As long as Neil doesn't pull a Toby Rieder, it's at least a net positive for the team.

Just keeping expectations low.

I don't see how Lucic will tear it up. James Neal couldn't make it in their top 6 so I don't see Lucic being there. For 2 years in a row, Lucic was in the Oilers top 6, got lots of PP time and couldn't do it. So he will be on their 3rd line probably as I don't see him displacing anyone. I said and maybe I was being optimistic that Lucic would score 10-11 goals. I could see that with the Flames.

Supposedly Neal is training really hard this offseason, potentially even around McDavid which is what I saw on twitter. I am sure he has talked to McDavid and Holland and probably Tippett and I am sure they have told him he's going to be in their top 6 with PP time. If I was him, I'd be pumped up big time as he just went from being a guy who the coach isn't a fan of, playing on the 3rd line to the Oilers top 6. Lucic can say he is fired up and wants to be better and wants to play meaningful games and wants to prove people wrong that he's done. Good for him. But he said that for 2 years in a row and it did nothing. He should have been super pumped up to at the start of last season, he was give top 6 mins, given PP time and he was worse than the previous year. He's going from the Oilers where we was a bottom 6 player to a team that maybe is slightly better but he's still a bottom 6 guy.



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 Re: James Neal for Lucic trade [message #740758 is a reply to message #740652 ]
Sat, 20 July 2019 01:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
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So with the Neal deal, we are probably looking at something like:

Draisaitl - McDavid - Kassian
Neal - Nugent-Hopkins - Chiasson
Granlund - Haas - Gagner
Nygard - Khaira - Archibald

Jurco, Cave


Klefbom - Larsson
Nurse - Russell
Jones - Benning
Persson


Koskinen
Smith


Thoughts:

- The RWers are still a hot mess. I actually don't mind Gagner and Archibald in the 3/4; I don't love Kassian and Chiasson at all in the Top-6 (a fourth liner and someone who rode an unsustainable shooting percentage the first half of last season). I think they may disappoint in these roles.

- Haas as a 3C has a ton of question marks and risk; Cave and Brodziak are incapable of covering that bet if it goes poorly.

- Neal as a Top-6 winger is far from certain, but there is at least a chance he may be able to rebound and fill that role. We will see.

- The left side and 3 of the 4 centers... look decent?

- Russell on the second pairing is still a poor solution. They need a real, puck-moving, established RHD to play with Nurse; this is one of the biggest needs, and unfortunately the Oilers watched a lot of these guys change addresses this summer without any of them landing in Edmonton.

- We still don't have a #1 goalie.

- Inadequate positions on the team still: 1RW, 2RW, 3C, 2RD, 1G. Today was a good trade; there is still some serious work to be done.



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 Re: James Neal for Lucic trade [message #740760 is a reply to message #740758 ]
Sat, 20 July 2019 08:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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I thought Neal played a lot on the right side over his career. Maybe I am wrong. I have said on other sites, I don't think the Oilers use the fact they have McDavid and Leon to their advantage like the Pens do with Crosby and Malkin. I know Leon and McDavid are fantastic together but McDavid is going to score with anyone. With Neal who other than last season was a lock to score over 20 goals for like 10 straight years I think. I would have as my lines as they are today:
Neal - McDavid - Kassian
Granlund -Nuge - Leon
Nygard Haas Chiasson
Kharia - Cave - Archibald

I could see a Granlund and Nygard switching. I put Granlund there because he's a proven NHLer but regardless, you need a speedy winger up there.

If they want to have Leon and McDavid together which I understand, then I swap Leon and Neal having Neal play the right side.



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 Re: James Neal for Lucic trade [message #740771 is a reply to message #740760 ]
Sat, 20 July 2019 12:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
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RDOilerfan wrote on Sat, 20 July 2019 08:05

I thought Neal played a lot on the right side over his career. Maybe I am wrong. I have said on other sites, I don't think the Oilers use the fact they have McDavid and Leon to their advantage like the Pens do with Crosby and Malkin. I know Leon and McDavid are fantastic together but McDavid is going to score with anyone. With Neal who other than last season was a lock to score over 20 goals for like 10 straight years I think. I would have as my lines as they are today:
Neal - McDavid - Kassian
Granlund -Nuge - Leon
Nygard Haas Chiasson
Kharia - Cave - Archibald

I could see a Granlund and Nygard switching. I put Granlund there because he's a proven NHLer but regardless, you need a speedy winger up there.

If they want to have Leon and McDavid together which I understand, then I swap Leon and Neal having Neal play the right side.


Gagner is the forgotten man by so many on here and Twitter. I actually think he might be their best RWer.



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 Re: James Neal for Lucic trade [message #740796 is a reply to message #740758 ]
Mon, 22 July 2019 09:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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mightyreasoner wrote on Sat, 20 July 2019 01:02

So with the Neal deal, we are probably looking at something like:

Draisaitl - McDavid - Kassian
Neal - Nugent-Hopkins - Chiasson
Granlund - Haas - Gagner
Nygard - Khaira - Archibald

Jurco, Cave


Klefbom - Larsson
Nurse - Russell
Jones - Benning
Persson


Koskinen
Smith


Thoughts:

- The RWers are still a hot mess. I actually don't mind Gagner and Archibald in the 3/4; I don't love Kassian and Chiasson at all in the Top-6 (a fourth liner and someone who rode an unsustainable shooting percentage the first half of last season). I think they may disappoint in these roles.

- Haas as a 3C has a ton of question marks and risk; Cave and Brodziak are incapable of covering that bet if it goes poorly.

- Neal as a Top-6 winger is far from certain, but there is at least a chance he may be able to rebound and fill that role. We will see.

- The left side and 3 of the 4 centers... look decent?

- Russell on the second pairing is still a poor solution. They need a real, puck-moving, established RHD to play with Nurse; this is one of the biggest needs, and unfortunately the Oilers watched a lot of these guys change addresses this summer without any of them landing in Edmonton.

- We still don't have a #1 goalie.

- Inadequate positions on the team still: 1RW, 2RW, 3C, 2RD, 1G. Today was a good trade; there is still some serious work to be done.


I'd still leave 2LW as inadequate. Given Neal's age, I think you have to assume last year wasn't just a blip and that his decline has begun. He may outperform last year's pace - a very low shooting percentage suggests luck could have had something to do with it (he had TWICE the shots Lucic did in 9 less games), but I think it's unlikely he's pushing 50 points ever again.



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 Re: James Neal for Lucic trade [message #740775 is a reply to message #740652 ]
Sat, 20 July 2019 16:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Not mine.

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 Re: James Neal for Lucic trade [message #740778 is a reply to message #740652 ]
Sun, 21 July 2019 10:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
philly boy  is currently offline philly boy
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Initial reaction: holy ****!

Secondary reaction: what the hell is/was Treliving thinking?

How can this be a bad thing for the Oilers? Ken Holland you son of a gun....



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 Re: James Neal for Lucic trade [message #740779 is a reply to message #740778 ]
Sun, 21 July 2019 18:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
K.McC#24  is currently offline K.McC#24
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philly boy wrote on Sun, 21 July 2019 10:45

Initial reaction: holy ****!

Secondary reaction: what the hell is/was Treliving thinking?

How can this be a bad thing for the Oilers? Ken Holland you son of a gun....


With Looch there was no good way out for 4 years, worst case with Neal is you can trade him for a pick (or nothing) or buy him out. Cap space is king when ufa's come and go. I don't see any scenario really where the Oilers are losing the deal.



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 Re: James Neal for Lucic trade [message #740780 is a reply to message #740779 ]
Sun, 21 July 2019 20:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
oilfan94  is currently offline oilfan94
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Funny how I keep are ng Flames fans talk about how Neal was slow and terrible. They said he brings nothing to the game now and talk about his terrible attitude. Then they start going on about Lucic bringing the leadership and physically. Somehow he will be that deterrent that will help keep their players safe. I don't really know about how bad Neal was last year, but it's clear that he hated the coach and didn't get the role on the team he though he would. We all know too well here what Lucic brings now. He got 259 hits last year, but does anyone here remember any? I was surprised he was credited with so many. So often he was too slow to add anything, and when he did try it was for only a game or two at a time. Flames fans have talked themselves into liking this deal more, but I think they are going to be extremely disappointed by what they see. I think Lucic will come out with about 20-30 physical games, but will start to drop off. He says he needs to play in important games to play better, but I think that is the excuse he tells himself at this point so he doesn't feel like he can't play NHL hockey anymore.


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 Re: James Neal for Lucic trade [message #740781 is a reply to message #740780 ]
Sun, 21 July 2019 20:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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oilfan94 wrote on Sun, 21 July 2019 20:41

Funny how I keep are ng Flames fans talk about how Neal was slow and terrible. They said he brings nothing to the game now and talk about his terrible attitude. Then they start going on about Lucic bringing the leadership and physically. Somehow he will be that deterrent that will help keep their players safe. I don't really know about how bad Neal was last year, but it's clear that he hated the coach and didn't get the role on the team he though he would. We all know too well here what Lucic brings now. He got 259 hits last year, but does anyone here remember any? I was surprised he was credited with so many. So often he was too slow to add anything, and when he did try it was for only a game or two at a time. Flames fans have talked themselves into liking this deal more, but I think they are going to be extremely disappointed by what they see. I think Lucic will come out with about 20-30 physical games, but will start to drop off. He says he needs to play in important games to play better, but I think that is the excuse he tells himself at this point so he doesn't feel like he can't play NHL hockey anymore.

I do think for Calgary the barometer for Lucic success is different though. They’re already a playoff team. If he coasts through the 82 and then shows up in a couple playoff series games maybe he isn’t seen as such a boat anchor. My hope is they force him into the top 6 and PP1 so he can really damage their performance.



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 Re: James Neal for Lucic trade [message #740782 is a reply to message #740781 ]
Sun, 21 July 2019 21:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Sun, 21 July 2019 20:54

oilfan94 wrote on Sun, 21 July 2019 20:41

Funny how I keep are ng Flames fans talk about how Neal was slow and terrible. They said he brings nothing to the game now and talk about his terrible attitude. Then they start going on about Lucic bringing the leadership and physically. Somehow he will be that deterrent that will help keep their players safe. I don't really know about how bad Neal was last year, but it's clear that he hated the coach and didn't get the role on the team he though he would. We all know too well here what Lucic brings now. He got 259 hits last year, but does anyone here remember any? I was surprised he was credited with so many. So often he was too slow to add anything, and when he did try it was for only a game or two at a time. Flames fans have talked themselves into liking this deal more, but I think they are going to be extremely disappointed by what they see. I think Lucic will come out with about 20-30 physical games, but will start to drop off. He says he needs to play in important games to play better, but I think that is the excuse he tells himself at this point so he doesn't feel like he can't play NHL hockey anymore.

I do think for Calgary the barometer for Lucic success is different though. They’re already a playoff team. If he coasts through the 82 and then shows up in a couple playoff series games maybe he isn’t seen as such a boat anchor. My hope is they force him into the top 6 and PP1 so he can really damage their performance.


Looch hasn't been noticeable in the playoffs for over half a decade though. Complete passenger in LA, enjoying riding Kopitar coattails and not doing much. Barely noticeable for us aside from being on the ice when Drai was going nuts in the 2nd round. 0 5v5 goals in his last 18 playoff games.

Neal was one of the only guys the flames had that actually did something in the last ~5 years in the playoffs.

Fingers crossed the flames don't start next year with 5 guys rocking ~20% shooting% 1-2 months into the season, riding that high through the year. Damn their regular season wonder team.

[Updated on: Sun, 21 July 2019 21:32]


"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

"In Brad we trust"
- All Oilers fans, Present Day

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 Re: James Neal for Lucic trade [message #740783 is a reply to message #740782 ]
Sun, 21 July 2019 22:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Kr55 wrote on Sun, 21 July 2019 21:29

CrudeRemarks wrote on Sun, 21 July 2019 20:54

oilfan94 wrote on Sun, 21 July 2019 20:41

Funny how I keep are ng Flames fans talk about how Neal was slow and terrible. They said he brings nothing to the game now and talk about his terrible attitude. Then they start going on about Lucic bringing the leadership and physically. Somehow he will be that deterrent that will help keep their players safe. I don't really know about how bad Neal was last year, but it's clear that he hated the coach and didn't get the role on the team he though he would. We all know too well here what Lucic brings now. He got 259 hits last year, but does anyone here remember any? I was surprised he was credited with so many. So often he was too slow to add anything, and when he did try it was for only a game or two at a time. Flames fans have talked themselves into liking this deal more, but I think they are going to be extremely disappointed by what they see. I think Lucic will come out with about 20-30 physical games, but will start to drop off. He says he needs to play in important games to play better, but I think that is the excuse he tells himself at this point so he doesn't feel like he can't play NHL hockey anymore.

I do think for Calgary the barometer for Lucic success is different though. They’re already a playoff team. If he coasts through the 82 and then shows up in a couple playoff series games maybe he isn’t seen as such a boat anchor. My hope is they force him into the top 6 and PP1 so he can really damage their performance.


Looch hasn't been noticeable in the playoffs for over half a decade though. Complete passenger in LA, enjoying riding Kopitar coattails and not doing much. Barely noticeable for us aside from being on the ice when Drai was going nuts in the 2nd round. 0 5v5 goals in his last 18 playoff games.

Neal was one of the only guys the flames had that actually did something in the last ~5 years in the playoffs.

Fingers crossed the flames don't start next year with 5 guys rocking ~20% shooting% 1-2 months into the season, riding that high through the year. Damn their regular season wonder team.


To be fair, Neal didn't do much in the playoffs...played in 4 of 5 this spring, scoring 0-0-0...Not his finest performance. You can bet if the Flames make the playoffs, and Lucic scores even one point, that will come up...



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: James Neal for Lucic trade [message #740784 is a reply to message #740783 ]
Sun, 21 July 2019 23:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Adam wrote on Sun, 21 July 2019 22:55

Kr55 wrote on Sun, 21 July 2019 21:29

CrudeRemarks wrote on Sun, 21 July 2019 20:54

oilfan94 wrote on Sun, 21 July 2019 20:41

Funny how I keep are ng Flames fans talk about how Neal was slow and terrible. They said he brings nothing to the game now and talk about his terrible attitude. Then they start going on about Lucic bringing the leadership and physically. Somehow he will be that deterrent that will help keep their players safe. I don't really know about how bad Neal was last year, but it's clear that he hated the coach and didn't get the role on the team he though he would. We all know too well here what Lucic brings now. He got 259 hits last year, but does anyone here remember any? I was surprised he was credited with so many. So often he was too slow to add anything, and when he did try it was for only a game or two at a time. Flames fans have talked themselves into liking this deal more, but I think they are going to be extremely disappointed by what they see. I think Lucic will come out with about 20-30 physical games, but will start to drop off. He says he needs to play in important games to play better, but I think that is the excuse he tells himself at this point so he doesn't feel like he can't play NHL hockey anymore.

I do think for Calgary the barometer for Lucic success is different though. They’re already a playoff team. If he coasts through the 82 and then shows up in a couple playoff series games maybe he isn’t seen as such a boat anchor. My hope is they force him into the top 6 and PP1 so he can really damage their performance.


Looch hasn't been noticeable in the playoffs for over half a decade though. Complete passenger in LA, enjoying riding Kopitar coattails and not doing much. Barely noticeable for us aside from being on the ice when Drai was going nuts in the 2nd round. 0 5v5 goals in his last 18 playoff games.

Neal was one of the only guys the flames had that actually did something in the last ~5 years in the playoffs.

Fingers crossed the flames don't start next year with 5 guys rocking ~20% shooting% 1-2 months into the season, riding that high through the year. Damn their regular season wonder team.


To be fair, Neal didn't do much in the playoffs...played in 4 of 5 this spring, scoring 0-0-0...Not his finest performance. You can bet if the Flames make the playoffs, and Lucic scores even one point, that will come up...


Johnny of the hockey had 1 assist with all the offensive minutes the coach could give him. Was not a great performance by almost all flames. His C Jankowski was blanked too and pretty useless. Their 5-1 loss in their elimination game after getting Neal out of the lineup was hilarious.

I guess we best be making playoffs if this trade can be claimed a win on the flames side if they make it and Lucic manages a point :)

[Updated on: Mon, 22 July 2019 00:11]


"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

"In Brad we trust"
- All Oilers fans, Present Day

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 Re: James Neal for Lucic trade [message #740785 is a reply to message #740784 ]
Mon, 22 July 2019 07:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Magnum  is currently offline Magnum
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No Cups

Is Lucic more tradable now?

He carries a lower cap hit and could be accompanied by a third round pick, without cost to the Flames.

If I was Treliving, I'd be looking for a this type of opportunity, like Kevin Lowe looking for an opportunity to tell someone that he won 6 cups.




2015/2016 - This Kool-Aid tastes like McDavid flavoured Drain-O.
2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.
2017/2018 - I'm drinking this Kool-Aid, in hopes that it's Drain-O.
2018/2019 - Another round of Drain-O, good sir!

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 Re: James Neal for Lucic trade [message #740786 is a reply to message #740785 ]
Mon, 22 July 2019 08:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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3 Cups

Magnum wrote on Mon, 22 July 2019 07:49

Is Lucic more tradable now?

He carries a lower cap hit and could be accompanied by a third round pick, without cost to the Flames.

If I was Treliving, I'd be looking for a this type of opportunity, like Kevin Lowe looking for an opportunity to tell someone that he won 6 cups.



The Flames honored Lucic's no move so he'd have to waive it to get traded again. I read that apparently a bunch of Flames had to call Lucic including Iginla to convince him to waive which blows my mind. It wasn't like the Flames are a crap team. So to me that gives me insight into his mindset and probably why it didn't work in Edmonton. He spent his whole career in a major US market (Boston, LA) where hockey is popular but not the big dog. So when he was crap, he could just disappear. There wasn't the media attention, there wasn't the fan attention and there wasn't multiple sport talk shows that talk hockey 365 days a year to talk about how crappy he has been every day. So he couldn't handle it and mailed it in. On top of that, he's arrogant and didn't want to make changes to how he played and trained to match what was happening in Calgary.

I don't see how it will change much in Calgary. I listen to Calgary radio and the media is just as ruthless as Edmonton. They talk Flames everyday. The fans aren't quite as passionate as Oilers but pretty close. If you as a player aren't performing, they seek you out to destroy you. They even do it to players doing well (Hamiltion was hated for being "soft" even though he produced). So maybe the expectations for Lucic aren't as high. In Edmonton, most fans just wanted him to do what he always did. Be that big physical, nasty guy who hovered around 20 goals, 45-50 pts, just like he did for 8 years in a row in Boston and LA. In Calgary, he just has to be big, nasty, physical and produce at a 3rd liner pace. But when he goes on a 20-30 game goalless drought, they will crush him.



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 Re: James Neal for Lucic trade [message #740788 is a reply to message #740786 ]
Mon, 22 July 2019 09:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Magnum  is currently offline Magnum
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No Cups

Well, I hope he continues to enjoy his Euro-Trip, until October.

Love that guy. He deserves some time off.




2015/2016 - This Kool-Aid tastes like McDavid flavoured Drain-O.
2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.
2017/2018 - I'm drinking this Kool-Aid, in hopes that it's Drain-O.
2018/2019 - Another round of Drain-O, good sir!

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 Re: James Neal for Lucic trade [message #740789 is a reply to message #740785 ]
Mon, 22 July 2019 09:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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6 Cups

Magnum wrote on Mon, 22 July 2019 07:49

Is Lucic more tradable now?

He carries a lower cap hit and could be accompanied by a third round pick, without cost to the Flames.

If I was Treliving, I'd be looking for a this type of opportunity, like Kevin Lowe looking for an opportunity to tell someone that he won 6 cups.




Maintaining the no-move clause was crazy. Maybe it had to happen, given the fact that they had to convince him to waive to begin with, but they've tied their hands now on dealing him or even with regards to the expansion draft.

Worth noting, I don't think the odds that we end up giving them a 3rd round pick are particularly high. I fully expect James Neal to be a disappointment here too...just less of a disappointment than Lucic. Scoring 21 goals might be a big ask. He's another left shot, so is he going to get on the first powerplay unit? Chances are good that he's a second liner with Nuge, rather than getting first line time with McDavid.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: James Neal for Lucic trade [message #740793 is a reply to message #740789 ]
Mon, 22 July 2019 09:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Magnum  is currently offline Magnum
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No Cups

The deal is a 3rd if Neal scores 21?


2015/2016 - This Kool-Aid tastes like McDavid flavoured Drain-O.
2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.
2017/2018 - I'm drinking this Kool-Aid, in hopes that it's Drain-O.
2018/2019 - Another round of Drain-O, good sir!

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 Re: James Neal for Lucic trade [message #740794 is a reply to message #740793 ]
Mon, 22 July 2019 09:29 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
Messages: 508
Registered: October 2005
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

Magnum wrote on Mon, 22 July 2019 09:25

The deal is a 3rd if Neal scores 21?


AND if Lucic scores finishes less than 10 goals behind Neal.

So Neal has to score 10 more than Lucic, and Neal has to hit the 21 goal mark for the pick to move. If that happens, Edmonton is happy to send that pick away.



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 Re: James Neal for Lucic trade [message #740805 is a reply to message #740794 ]
Mon, 22 July 2019 10:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
oilerfan79  is currently offline oilerfan79
Messages: 11
Registered: August 2006
Location: Windsor Ontario

No Cups

The more I think about this trade the more I think Holland is a wizard. The Oilers give up nothing but 500k if Neal sucks and if he does then he actually can be bought out at a reasonable amount. If Neal is good they give up a 3rd round pick only if Lucic plays like his usual self. I'll happily give up a 3rd round lottery ticket if we get for at least 10 more goals than Lucic scores.

I find it funny that Lucic is looking forward to playing meaningful hockey. He did for quite a bit of the 3 seasons he spent here and he looked like a steaming turd for most of them. Take away the PP number in the first year and he's put up 3 really bad seasons in a row. Neal had 1 bad season a way better contract and doesn't handle the puck like it's a live grenade, not sure how the Oilers will ever regret this trade.



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