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 Oilers » Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM and POHO offerPages (4): [ «  <  1  2  3  4]
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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM and POHO offer [message #737246 is a reply to message #737243 ]
Tue, 07 May 2019 12:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Suomalainen wrote on Tue, 07 May 2019 10:46

https://twitter.com/JSportsnet/status/1125816734701826048


Some of the old-timers remember my story about surviving a drug-resistant bacterial infection, so in light of that, best wishes to Katz.



Holy crap. He's had it at least for 2 years, explains a lot, probably down in the USA getting treatment/surgeries the last two years.
An example of modern society's undaunted tendency to form hard opinions despite an absence of facts.



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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM and POHO offer [message #737253 is a reply to message #737246 ]
Tue, 07 May 2019 12:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Interesting how Holland commented about Hitch and how if they brought him back, it would be another year before they had a even a chance at making the playoffs. Apparently, he's not a big Hitch fan. icon_lol


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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM and POHO offer [message #737282 is a reply to message #737253 ]
Tue, 07 May 2019 15:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne  is currently offline PlusOne
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 07 May 2019 12:15

Interesting how Holland commented about Hitch and how if they brought him back, it would be another year before they had a even a chance at making the playoffs. Apparently, he's not a big Hitch fan. icon_lol


I am not going to go back and watch but I thought he said something along the lines of;
If Hitch came back it would only be for one more year and he wants to bring in someone who he (Holland) can work with long term and build something.

I was only listening half assed while at work so could of hear wrong. I didnt hear it as a slam on Hitch but more of him looking for a long term partnership in a coach.



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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM and POHO offer [message #737284 is a reply to message #737282 ]
Tue, 07 May 2019 15:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260  is currently offline smyth260
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That's what I took away as well. I think that makes complete sense. Go and hire your long term guy.


Clean house or bust

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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM and POHO offer [message #737287 is a reply to message #737284 ]
Tue, 07 May 2019 15:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne  is currently offline PlusOne
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smyth260 wrote on Tue, 07 May 2019 15:18

That's what I took away as well. I think that makes complete sense. Go and hire your long term guy.


Agreed 100%. It was one of my positives from Hollands Q and A. He preached stability, loyalty and growth.
Hopefully he was talking about the players and his new coach, not the OBC.



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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM and POHO offer [message #737290 is a reply to message #737287 ]
Tue, 07 May 2019 15:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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PlusOne wrote on Tue, 07 May 2019 15:29

smyth260 wrote on Tue, 07 May 2019 15:18

That's what I took away as well. I think that makes complete sense. Go and hire your long term guy.


Agreed 100%. It was one of my positives from Hollands Q and A. He preached stability, loyalty and growth.
Hopefully he was talking about the players and his new coach, not the OBC.


I don't know, maybe that's the tenets of the Oilers culture.

- We all have stable jobs (as long as we're part of the Super-Friends);
- We're all loyal to the Oilers - in part because no one else would ever think to hire us;
- We all grow fat and comfortable drinking Wayne's wine and spending Darryl's dollars.




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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM and POHO offer [message #737294 is a reply to message #737284 ]
Tue, 07 May 2019 15:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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smyth260 wrote on Tue, 07 May 2019 15:18

That's what I took away as well. I think that makes complete sense. Go and hire your long term guy.


I as actually surprised that he hadn't even been officially announced by the team and he was calling Hitch up last night to tell him he's not coming back and talked to all the assistants. Past guys, like Chia would have said they will have to take some time to talk to everyone. He's not wasting any time. In my opinion, there isn't anything to talk about when it came to Hitch. He's going to be 68 yrs old. As a temporary guy, you can deal with him for 3/4 of the season but I didn't see him as the long term coach. They need a different kind of coach and the team wasn't much better under him than it was with McLellan. The only thing having Hitch replace McLennan did was confirm that it wasn't coaching, the line up wasn't good enough. I would expect to see a coach in place by the end of May.

I hope that Holland employs the same not wasting any time approach with the Hockey Ops side. The Oilers have been lousy for a long time. I am sure every guy has some pros to him but at the end of the day with guys like Sutter, Howson, Mac T, Scott, who ever the pro scouts are, the results aren't there. Chia has to wear lots of the blame but they were involved as well. So in my opinion, there really is no need to spend a lot of time finding out the pros and cons of these guys. The record speaks for itself, a change is needed. I would hope there would be some movement in the hockey ops department in the coming weeks.

I would probably invest some into K. Gretzky to find out about him. I think he has done a decent job just running things since Chia was fired. He has to wear some blame for the pro side just because he's part of that team but I would find out how much. I think he is decent at amateur scouting side which lately as been the only part of the Oilers organization that seems to be doing decent.



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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM and POHO offer [message #737303 is a reply to message #737294 ]
Tue, 07 May 2019 17:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 07 May 2019 15:44

smyth260 wrote on Tue, 07 May 2019 15:18

That's what I took away as well. I think that makes complete sense. Go and hire your long term guy.


I as actually surprised that he hadn't even been officially announced by the team and he was calling Hitch up last night to tell him he's not coming back and talked to all the assistants. Past guys, like Chia would have said they will have to take some time to talk to everyone. He's not wasting any time. In my opinion, there isn't anything to talk about when it came to Hitch. He's going to be 68 yrs old. As a temporary guy, you can deal with him for 3/4 of the season but I didn't see him as the long term coach. They need a different kind of coach and the team wasn't much better under him than it was with McLellan. The only thing having Hitch replace McLennan did was confirm that it wasn't coaching, the line up wasn't good enough. I would expect to see a coach in place by the end of May.

I hope that Holland employs the same not wasting any time approach with the Hockey Ops side. The Oilers have been lousy for a long time. I am sure every guy has some pros to him but at the end of the day with guys like Sutter, Howson, Mac T, Scott, who ever the pro scouts are, the results aren't there. Chia has to wear lots of the blame but they were involved as well. So in my opinion, there really is no need to spend a lot of time finding out the pros and cons of these guys. The record speaks for itself, a change is needed. I would hope there would be some movement in the hockey ops department in the coming weeks.

I would probably invest some into K. Gretzky to find out about him. I think he has done a decent job just running things since Chia was fired. He has to wear some blame for the pro side just because he's part of that team but I would find out how much. I think he is decent at amateur scouting side which lately as been the only part of the Oilers organization that seems to be doing decent.


Once again, this is incorrect.

Holland is not at all unique in making a decision on his coach right away. Chiarelli basically said the same thing about Todd Nelson. He said he hoped they could keep Nelson in the organization, but he didn't exactly dither about that.

MacTavish dithered, but then everything about his hiring was a complete and total trainwreck.

Tambellini just confirmed that MacTavish would stay on as head coach.

It's always one of the first questions any GM gets asked, so anyone who's done even a modicum of preparation for the job has an answer to that question ready and has done at least the minimum amount of preparation ahead of the press conference.

Also - who wants to bet that MacTavish is still here when the smoke clears this summer? I'm pretty much guaranteeing he doesn't get walked out.



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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM and POHO offer [message #737344 is a reply to message #737303 ]
Wed, 08 May 2019 08:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Tue, 07 May 2019 17:33

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 07 May 2019 15:44

smyth260 wrote on Tue, 07 May 2019 15:18

That's what I took away as well. I think that makes complete sense. Go and hire your long term guy.


I as actually surprised that he hadn't even been officially announced by the team and he was calling Hitch up last night to tell him he's not coming back and talked to all the assistants. Past guys, like Chia would have said they will have to take some time to talk to everyone. He's not wasting any time. In my opinion, there isn't anything to talk about when it came to Hitch. He's going to be 68 yrs old. As a temporary guy, you can deal with him for 3/4 of the season but I didn't see him as the long term coach. They need a different kind of coach and the team wasn't much better under him than it was with McLellan. The only thing having Hitch replace McLennan did was confirm that it wasn't coaching, the line up wasn't good enough. I would expect to see a coach in place by the end of May.

I hope that Holland employs the same not wasting any time approach with the Hockey Ops side. The Oilers have been lousy for a long time. I am sure every guy has some pros to him but at the end of the day with guys like Sutter, Howson, Mac T, Scott, who ever the pro scouts are, the results aren't there. Chia has to wear lots of the blame but they were involved as well. So in my opinion, there really is no need to spend a lot of time finding out the pros and cons of these guys. The record speaks for itself, a change is needed. I would hope there would be some movement in the hockey ops department in the coming weeks.

I would probably invest some into K. Gretzky to find out about him. I think he has done a decent job just running things since Chia was fired. He has to wear some blame for the pro side just because he's part of that team but I would find out how much. I think he is decent at amateur scouting side which lately as been the only part of the Oilers organization that seems to be doing decent.


Once again, this is incorrect.

Holland is not at all unique in making a decision on his coach right away. Chiarelli basically said the same thing about Todd Nelson. He said he hoped they could keep Nelson in the organization, but he didn't exactly dither about that.

MacTavish dithered, but then everything about his hiring was a complete and total trainwreck.

Tambellini just confirmed that MacTavish would stay on as head coach.

It's always one of the first questions any GM gets asked, so anyone who's done even a modicum of preparation for the job has an answer to that question ready and has done at least the minimum amount of preparation ahead of the press conference.

Also - who wants to bet that MacTavish is still here when the smoke clears this summer? I'm pretty much guaranteeing he doesn't get walked out.

Whatever you say. You are all knowing apparently.



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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM and POHO offer [message #737379 is a reply to message #737344 ]
Wed, 08 May 2019 20:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm  is currently offline Oscargasm
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 08 May 2019 08:21

Adam wrote on Tue, 07 May 2019 17:33

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 07 May 2019 15:44

smyth260 wrote on Tue, 07 May 2019 15:18

That's what I took away as well. I think that makes complete sense. Go and hire your long term guy.


I as actually surprised that he hadn't even been officially announced by the team and he was calling Hitch up last night to tell him he's not coming back and talked to all the assistants. Past guys, like Chia would have said they will have to take some time to talk to everyone. He's not wasting any time. In my opinion, there isn't anything to talk about when it came to Hitch. He's going to be 68 yrs old. As a temporary guy, you can deal with him for 3/4 of the season but I didn't see him as the long term coach. They need a different kind of coach and the team wasn't much better under him than it was with McLellan. The only thing having Hitch replace McLennan did was confirm that it wasn't coaching, the line up wasn't good enough. I would expect to see a coach in place by the end of May.

I hope that Holland employs the same not wasting any time approach with the Hockey Ops side. The Oilers have been lousy for a long time. I am sure every guy has some pros to him but at the end of the day with guys like Sutter, Howson, Mac T, Scott, who ever the pro scouts are, the results aren't there. Chia has to wear lots of the blame but they were involved as well. So in my opinion, there really is no need to spend a lot of time finding out the pros and cons of these guys. The record speaks for itself, a change is needed. I would hope there would be some movement in the hockey ops department in the coming weeks.

I would probably invest some into K. Gretzky to find out about him. I think he has done a decent job just running things since Chia was fired. He has to wear some blame for the pro side just because he's part of that team but I would find out how much. I think he is decent at amateur scouting side which lately as been the only part of the Oilers organization that seems to be doing decent.


Once again, this is incorrect.

Holland is not at all unique in making a decision on his coach right away. Chiarelli basically said the same thing about Todd Nelson. He said he hoped they could keep Nelson in the organization, but he didn't exactly dither about that.

MacTavish dithered, but then everything about his hiring was a complete and total trainwreck.

Tambellini just confirmed that MacTavish would stay on as head coach.

It's always one of the first questions any GM gets asked, so anyone who's done even a modicum of preparation for the job has an answer to that question ready and has done at least the minimum amount of preparation ahead of the press conference.

Also - who wants to bet that MacTavish is still here when the smoke clears this summer? I'm pretty much guaranteeing he doesn't get walked out.

Whatever you say. You are all knowing apparently.

Why so passive aggressive? Adam, in fact, is knowledgeable as he pays attention to trends and uses this along with other data to support his comments. For someone who was quite upset earlier at people for being cruel towards Katz’ for his appearance you sure seem to insult those who don’t align with your thinking or you feel are “flexing their brain” on a subject you’re discussing.



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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM and POHO offer [message #737306 is a reply to message #737253 ]
Tue, 07 May 2019 17:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 07 May 2019 12:15

Interesting how Holland commented about Hitch and how if they brought him back, it would be another year before they had a even a chance at making the playoffs. Apparently, he's not a big Hitch fan. icon_lol
He basically said that after a year he would be looking for another coach anyway because apparently Hitch isn't in the long term plans and he wants someone coaching who he can build a long term relationship with. ( that's been a successful model for him in the past ) He had no disrespect towards Hitch at all.



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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM and POHO offer [message #737345 is a reply to message #737306 ]
Wed, 08 May 2019 08:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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overdue wrote on Tue, 07 May 2019 17:47

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 07 May 2019 12:15

Interesting how Holland commented about Hitch and how if they brought him back, it would be another year before they had a even a chance at making the playoffs. Apparently, he's not a big Hitch fan. icon_lol
He basically said that after a year he would be looking for another coach anyway because apparently Hitch isn't in the long term plans and he wants someone coaching who he can build a long term relationship with. ( that's been a successful model for him in the past ) He had no disrespect towards Hitch at all.


I guess I should have worded it differently. I wasn't saying Holland didn't have a ton of respect for Hitch, I am sure he does. What I was saying is Holland was very quick to decide that Hitch wasn't his idea of the type of coach he wants for the Oilers.



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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM and POHO offer [message #737348 is a reply to message #737345 ]
Wed, 08 May 2019 09:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 08 May 2019 08:24

overdue wrote on Tue, 07 May 2019 17:47

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 07 May 2019 12:15

Interesting how Holland commented about Hitch and how if they brought him back, it would be another year before they had a even a chance at making the playoffs. Apparently, he's not a big Hitch fan. icon_lol
He basically said that after a year he would be looking for another coach anyway because apparently Hitch isn't in the long term plans and he wants someone coaching who he can build a long term relationship with. ( that's been a successful model for him in the past ) He had no disrespect towards Hitch at all.


I guess I should have worded it differently. I wasn't saying Holland didn't have a ton of respect for Hitch, I am sure he does. What I was saying is Holland was very quick to decide that Hitch wasn't his idea of the type of coach he wants for the Oilers.


His reasoning was pretty sound. Hitch would be a 1-2 year guy. He wants someone that he can expect to be around for the long term. I imagine that was pretty easy to explain to Hitch as well. This is not at all a team that needs a short term push over the hill by a short shelf-life coach like Hitch. This team still badly needs a ground up approach from someone that feels he will be around for 4+ years at least.

All of Holland's talk about Yzerman sacrificing points for other things, and how he wants the coach to also provide veteran leadership like he will as GM suggests to me that he will try to get an experienced HC though. Not sure Nelson will be in the picture. Makes me think of a guy like Tippett.



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-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


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- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM and POHO offer [message #737349 is a reply to message #737348 ]
Wed, 08 May 2019 09:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 08 May 2019 09:26

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 08 May 2019 08:24

overdue wrote on Tue, 07 May 2019 17:47

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 07 May 2019 12:15

Interesting how Holland commented about Hitch and how if they brought him back, it would be another year before they had a even a chance at making the playoffs. Apparently, he's not a big Hitch fan. icon_lol
He basically said that after a year he would be looking for another coach anyway because apparently Hitch isn't in the long term plans and he wants someone coaching who he can build a long term relationship with. ( that's been a successful model for him in the past ) He had no disrespect towards Hitch at all.


I guess I should have worded it differently. I wasn't saying Holland didn't have a ton of respect for Hitch, I am sure he does. What I was saying is Holland was very quick to decide that Hitch wasn't his idea of the type of coach he wants for the Oilers.


His reasoning was pretty sound. Hitch would be a 1-2 year guy. He wants someone that he can expect to be around for the long term. I imagine that was pretty easy to explain to Hitch as well. This is not at all a team that needs a short term push over the hill by a short shelf-life coach like Hitch. This team still badly needs a ground up approach from someone that feels he will be around for 4+ years at least.

All of Holland's talk about Yzerman sacrificing points for other things, and how he wants the coach to also provide veteran leadership like he will as GM suggests to me that he will try to get an experienced HC though. Not sure Nelson will be in the picture. Makes me think of a guy like Tippett.

I am OK if the next coach gets the Oilers players to stop cheating for offense and play a more sound game. I will give Hitch a lot of credit. He supposedly worked real hard with Leon to get him to play a more complete game and Leon scored 50 goals and over 100 pts while being a better all around player in my opinion. So I don't think not being a train wreck in your own zone means you can't score points.



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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM and POHO offer [message #737351 is a reply to message #737349 ]
Wed, 08 May 2019 09:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 08 May 2019 09:31

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 08 May 2019 09:26

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 08 May 2019 08:24

overdue wrote on Tue, 07 May 2019 17:47

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 07 May 2019 12:15

Interesting how Holland commented about Hitch and how if they brought him back, it would be another year before they had a even a chance at making the playoffs. Apparently, he's not a big Hitch fan. icon_lol
He basically said that after a year he would be looking for another coach anyway because apparently Hitch isn't in the long term plans and he wants someone coaching who he can build a long term relationship with. ( that's been a successful model for him in the past ) He had no disrespect towards Hitch at all.


I guess I should have worded it differently. I wasn't saying Holland didn't have a ton of respect for Hitch, I am sure he does. What I was saying is Holland was very quick to decide that Hitch wasn't his idea of the type of coach he wants for the Oilers.


His reasoning was pretty sound. Hitch would be a 1-2 year guy. He wants someone that he can expect to be around for the long term. I imagine that was pretty easy to explain to Hitch as well. This is not at all a team that needs a short term push over the hill by a short shelf-life coach like Hitch. This team still badly needs a ground up approach from someone that feels he will be around for 4+ years at least.

All of Holland's talk about Yzerman sacrificing points for other things, and how he wants the coach to also provide veteran leadership like he will as GM suggests to me that he will try to get an experienced HC though. Not sure Nelson will be in the picture. Makes me think of a guy like Tippett.

I am OK if the next coach gets the Oilers players to stop cheating for offense and play a more sound game. I will give Hitch a lot of credit. He supposedly worked real hard with Leon to get him to play a more complete game and Leon scored 50 goals and over 100 pts while being a better all around player in my opinion. So I don't think not being a train wreck in your own zone means you can't score points.


I honestly didn't see much difference at all in players commitment under Hitch. He did make forwards come a bit lower in their end to try to help our weak D, but that was basically a must when we were down Klef. Barely any D left that can make a pass. When guys further down the lineup started doing the same, their production hit new lows, because they could not longer find a way to make that journey from their own end to the offensive zone having to start to low. Defensive structure overall, pretty disappointing under Hitch. Still lots of the same mistakes being made all over the place. The line shuffling was stupid, and it's funny to find out that "Hitch Daily" is a term his former players use because he likes to try to sell a new line combo he just came up with will save the day (Identity Line!!!).

In any case, I think in general, a coach that is able to actually show he can get the team to do what he's selling, and it's actually smart and useful, and you can see it on the ice, win or lose. That is something we badly need. Tippett is actually that kind of guy IMO. His players have always bought in. He had some great seasons in Dallas, some without any real superstar. Bad times with the Coyotes for sure, but his players always played the game plan, they just lose more than they won because of a complete lack of talent up front.



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-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM and POHO offer [message #737358 is a reply to message #737351 ]
Wed, 08 May 2019 11:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 08 May 2019 09:54

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 08 May 2019 09:31

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 08 May 2019 09:26

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 08 May 2019 08:24

overdue wrote on Tue, 07 May 2019 17:47

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 07 May 2019 12:15

Interesting how Holland commented about Hitch and how if they brought him back, it would be another year before they had a even a chance at making the playoffs. Apparently, he's not a big Hitch fan. icon_lol
He basically said that after a year he would be looking for another coach anyway because apparently Hitch isn't in the long term plans and he wants someone coaching who he can build a long term relationship with. ( that's been a successful model for him in the past ) He had no disrespect towards Hitch at all.


I guess I should have worded it differently. I wasn't saying Holland didn't have a ton of respect for Hitch, I am sure he does. What I was saying is Holland was very quick to decide that Hitch wasn't his idea of the type of coach he wants for the Oilers.


His reasoning was pretty sound. Hitch would be a 1-2 year guy. He wants someone that he can expect to be around for the long term. I imagine that was pretty easy to explain to Hitch as well. This is not at all a team that needs a short term push over the hill by a short shelf-life coach like Hitch. This team still badly needs a ground up approach from someone that feels he will be around for 4+ years at least.

All of Holland's talk about Yzerman sacrificing points for other things, and how he wants the coach to also provide veteran leadership like he will as GM suggests to me that he will try to get an experienced HC though. Not sure Nelson will be in the picture. Makes me think of a guy like Tippett.

I am OK if the next coach gets the Oilers players to stop cheating for offense and play a more sound game. I will give Hitch a lot of credit. He supposedly worked real hard with Leon to get him to play a more complete game and Leon scored 50 goals and over 100 pts while being a better all around player in my opinion. So I don't think not being a train wreck in your own zone means you can't score points.


I honestly didn't see much difference at all in players commitment under Hitch. He did make forwards come a bit lower in their end to try to help our weak D, but that was basically a must when we were down Klef. Barely any D left that can make a pass. When guys further down the lineup started doing the same, their production hit new lows, because they could not longer find a way to make that journey from their own end to the offensive zone having to start to low. Defensive structure overall, pretty disappointing under Hitch. Still lots of the same mistakes being made all over the place. The line shuffling was stupid, and it's funny to find out that "Hitch Daily" is a term his former players use because he likes to try to sell a new line combo he just came up with will save the day (Identity Line!!!).

In any case, I think in general, a coach that is able to actually show he can get the team to do what he's selling, and it's actually smart and useful, and you can see it on the ice, win or lose. That is something we badly need. Tippett is actually that kind of guy IMO. His players have always bought in. He had some great seasons in Dallas, some without any real superstar. Bad times with the Coyotes for sure, but his players always played the game plan, they just lose more than they won because of a complete lack of talent up front.

I didn't think the Oilers as a team improved much under Hitch, I just said I thought Leon in particular was better under Hitch. He in my opinion really took off after McLellan was fired. Maybe that would have happened regardless, I don't know. In the end, the Oilers probably could have saved themselves some money and just kept McLellan for the rest of the year. What bringing in Hitch did do for the team in my opinion is reinforce that the roster make up wasn't good enough.



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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM and POHO offer [message #737357 is a reply to message #737348 ]
Wed, 08 May 2019 11:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
overdue  is currently offline overdue
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Quote:

Not sure Nelson will be in the picture


Saw and interview with Craig Button and he has Nelson right up there as the best candidate for the job because of his already established relationship with Holland. ( hired as the Wings minor league head coach and won a Calder Cup ) I'm hoping he's the guy Holland chooses.
(nothing against Tippet )

[Updated on: Wed, 08 May 2019 16:21]


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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM and POHO offer [message #737305 is a reply to message #737037 ]
Tue, 07 May 2019 17:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Is Holland the first guy in Oilers management to actually attempt to properly define a winning team culture?

I believe the basic idea was, get great people, and make sure you're getting the most out of them. Make sure they are willing to go the distance to try to win.

Makes sense. Most teams want that obviously. This team hasn't really though for a long time. Friendships and comfort in management has been most important for many years, more important than doing what it takes to win. And if that is failing at the management level, you have little hope that you're going to be getting the best people at the player level.



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"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM and POHO offer [message #737350 is a reply to message #737305 ]
Wed, 08 May 2019 09:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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The one thing about hiring a vet coach is you know he is capable of being an NHL head coach. Doesn't mean he's the right guy but at least he can do the job. What the Oilers can't do is hire a first time NHL head coach who isn't ready like they did with Eakins. Eakins wasn't close to being ready and set the Oilers back big time. He only last 18 months and after he was fired, was hired to be an AHL coach in June 2015. So he's been in the AHL for 4 years since being fired and hasn't got a sniff at another NHL job which to me just shows how badly he wasn't ready.


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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM and POHO offer [message #737352 is a reply to message #737037 ]
Wed, 08 May 2019 10:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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Lol, on Ken Holland's bio on the Oilers website, they felt the need to specifically state that he has full autonomy:

"In this role, Holland will oversee all hockey operations for the Edmonton Oilers with full autonomy, reporting directly to OEG CEO Bob Nicholson."

https://www.nhl.com/oilers/team/coaches-management




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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM and POHO offer [message #737353 is a reply to message #737352 ]
Wed, 08 May 2019 10:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Wed, 08 May 2019 10:31

Lol, on Ken Holland's bio on the Oilers website, they felt the need to specifically state that he has full autonomy:

"In this role, Holland will oversee all hockey operations for the Edmonton Oilers with full autonomy, reporting directly to OEG CEO Bob Nicholson."

https://www.nhl.com/oilers/team/coaches-management




lol. They should add a button next to "full autonomy" where it has a recording of Holland saying "I will have full autonomy".



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM and POHO offer [message #737354 is a reply to message #737353 ]
Wed, 08 May 2019 10:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 08 May 2019 10:38

CrudeRemarks wrote on Wed, 08 May 2019 10:31

Lol, on Ken Holland's bio on the Oilers website, they felt the need to specifically state that he has full autonomy:

"In this role, Holland will oversee all hockey operations for the Edmonton Oilers with full autonomy, reporting directly to OEG CEO Bob Nicholson."

https://www.nhl.com/oilers/team/coaches-management




lol. They should add a button next to "full autonomy" where it has a recording of Holland saying "I will have full autonomy".

Right. And if he decides to assert his full autonomy by bouncing ideas off the three former NHL GMs still being employed by the Oilers, so be it.



This is fine.

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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM and POHO offer [message #737356 is a reply to message #737354 ]
Wed, 08 May 2019 10:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 08 May 2019 10:40

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 08 May 2019 10:38

CrudeRemarks wrote on Wed, 08 May 2019 10:31

Lol, on Ken Holland's bio on the Oilers website, they felt the need to specifically state that he has full autonomy:

"In this role, Holland will oversee all hockey operations for the Edmonton Oilers with full autonomy, reporting directly to OEG CEO Bob Nicholson."

https://www.nhl.com/oilers/team/coaches-management




lol. They should add a button next to "full autonomy" where it has a recording of Holland saying "I will have full autonomy".

Right. And if he decides to assert his full autonomy by bouncing ideas off the three former NHL GMs still being employed by the Oilers, so be it.

That's his prerogative. He doesn't answer to us.



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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM and POHO offer [message #737355 is a reply to message #737353 ]
Wed, 08 May 2019 10:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 08 May 2019 10:38

CrudeRemarks wrote on Wed, 08 May 2019 10:31

Lol, on Ken Holland's bio on the Oilers website, they felt the need to specifically state that he has full autonomy:

"In this role, Holland will oversee all hockey operations for the Edmonton Oilers with full autonomy, reporting directly to OEG CEO Bob Nicholson."

https://www.nhl.com/oilers/team/coaches-management




lol. They should add a button next to "full autonomy" where it has a recording of Holland saying "I will have full autonomy".

Every press release:

Ken Holland, being the fully autonomous man that he is, is attending the NHL draft this weekend. Alone.



You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM and POHO offer [message #737359 is a reply to message #737353 ]
Wed, 08 May 2019 11:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260  is currently offline smyth260
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 08 May 2019 09:38

CrudeRemarks wrote on Wed, 08 May 2019 10:31

Lol, on Ken Holland's bio on the Oilers website, they felt the need to specifically state that he has full autonomy:

"In this role, Holland will oversee all hockey operations for the Edmonton Oilers with full autonomy, reporting directly to OEG CEO Bob Nicholson."

https://www.nhl.com/oilers/team/coaches-management




lol. They should add a button next to "full autonomy" where it has a recording of Holland saying "I will have full autonomy".


It will be real funny if in a month Craig MacTavish and Scott Howson's pictures remain below the autonomous Ken Holland.



Clean house or bust

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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM and POHO offer [message #737360 is a reply to message #737359 ]
Wed, 08 May 2019 11:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Magnum  is currently offline Magnum
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smyth260 wrote on Wed, 08 May 2019 11:17

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 08 May 2019 09:38

CrudeRemarks wrote on Wed, 08 May 2019 10:31

Lol, on Ken Holland's bio on the Oilers website, they felt the need to specifically state that he has full autonomy:

"In this role, Holland will oversee all hockey operations for the Edmonton Oilers with full autonomy, reporting directly to OEG CEO Bob Nicholson."

https://www.nhl.com/oilers/team/coaches-management




lol. They should add a button next to "full autonomy" where it has a recording of Holland saying "I will have full autonomy".


It will be real funny if in a month Craig MacTavish and Scott Howson's pictures remain below the autonomous Ken Holland.


Anyone that believes the autonomy thing, is someone that I have a great investment opportunity for. rtft



2015/2016 - This Kool-Aid tastes like McDavid flavoured Drain-O.
2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.
2017/2018 - I'm drinking this Kool-Aid, in hopes that it's Drain-O.
2018/2019 - Another round of Drain-O, good sir!

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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM and POHO offer [message #737370 is a reply to message #737360 ]
Wed, 08 May 2019 15:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Magnum wrote on Wed, 08 May 2019 11:19

smyth260 wrote on Wed, 08 May 2019 11:17

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 08 May 2019 09:38

CrudeRemarks wrote on Wed, 08 May 2019 10:31

Lol, on Ken Holland's bio on the Oilers website, they felt the need to specifically state that he has full autonomy:

"In this role, Holland will oversee all hockey operations for the Edmonton Oilers with full autonomy, reporting directly to OEG CEO Bob Nicholson."

https://www.nhl.com/oilers/team/coaches-management




lol. They should add a button next to "full autonomy" where it has a recording of Holland saying "I will have full autonomy".


It will be real funny if in a month Craig MacTavish and Scott Howson's pictures remain below the autonomous Ken Holland.


Anyone that believes the autonomy thing, is someone that I have a great investment opportunity for. rtft


Is it a condo in a newly built tower across the street from an arena with season tickets to a struggling hockey franchise included in the purchase price?

Asking for a friend...



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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM and POHO offer [message #737380 is a reply to message #737359 ]
Wed, 08 May 2019 20:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm  is currently offline nullterm
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smyth260 wrote on Wed, 08 May 2019 10:17

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 08 May 2019 09:38

CrudeRemarks wrote on Wed, 08 May 2019 10:31

Lol, on Ken Holland's bio on the Oilers website, they felt the need to specifically state that he has full autonomy:

"In this role, Holland will oversee all hockey operations for the Edmonton Oilers with full autonomy, reporting directly to OEG CEO Bob Nicholson."

https://www.nhl.com/oilers/team/coaches-management




lol. They should add a button next to "full autonomy" where it has a recording of Holland saying "I will have full autonomy".


It will be real funny if in a month Craig MacTavish and Scott Howson's pictures remain below the autonomous Ken Holland.


I want one of his business cards...

Ken Holland
Fully Autonomous
Edmonton Oilers
Phone 780-456-5555
Fax 780-456-5556



Illegitimi non carborundum.

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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM and POHO offer [message #737415 is a reply to message #737352 ]
Thu, 09 May 2019 12:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
philly boy  is currently offline philly boy
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Wed, 08 May 2019 10:31

Lol, on Ken Holland's bio on the Oilers website, they felt the need to specifically state that he has full autonomy:

"In this role, Holland will oversee all hockey operations for the Edmonton Oilers with full autonomy, reporting directly to OEG CEO Bob Nicholson."

https://www.nhl.com/oilers/team/coaches-management




My god, that is embarrassing. Why is this franchise so utterly stupid and laughable in every single thing they do...



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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM and POHO offer [message #737419 is a reply to message #737415 ]
Thu, 09 May 2019 12:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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philly boy wrote on Thu, 09 May 2019 12:07

CrudeRemarks wrote on Wed, 08 May 2019 10:31

Lol, on Ken Holland's bio on the Oilers website, they felt the need to specifically state that he has full autonomy:

"In this role, Holland will oversee all hockey operations for the Edmonton Oilers with full autonomy, reporting directly to OEG CEO Bob Nicholson."

https://www.nhl.com/oilers/team/coaches-management




My god, that is embarrassing. Why is this franchise so utterly stupid and laughable in every single thing they do...

I was thinking about this. Sports franchises are an anomaly in that they are basically "small" family businesses, except that they are worth hundreds of millions of dollars. I bet a lot of them don't have documented processes like big corporations would. So every time you're doing something you are winging it regardless of whether that something is a hiring, a firing, financial analysis (like managing a salary cap). Poorly run ones, and I obviously include ours in that group, would continue to repeat mistakes because they don't have best practices in place.

I'm also generalizing here but i bet a significant portion of the "executive" on both hockey ops and the other side don't have much accountability. Bad managers = bad employees = bad product.

So i guess the lack of success is not that surprising. Or at least it shouldn't be.



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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM and POHO offer [message #737420 is a reply to message #737419 ]
Thu, 09 May 2019 14:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Thu, 09 May 2019 12:55

philly boy wrote on Thu, 09 May 2019 12:07

CrudeRemarks wrote on Wed, 08 May 2019 10:31

Lol, on Ken Holland's bio on the Oilers website, they felt the need to specifically state that he has full autonomy:

"In this role, Holland will oversee all hockey operations for the Edmonton Oilers with full autonomy, reporting directly to OEG CEO Bob Nicholson."

https://www.nhl.com/oilers/team/coaches-management




My god, that is embarrassing. Why is this franchise so utterly stupid and laughable in every single thing they do...

I was thinking about this. Sports franchises are an anomaly in that they are basically "small" family businesses, except that they are worth hundreds of millions of dollars. I bet a lot of them don't have documented processes like big corporations would. So every time you're doing something you are winging it regardless of whether that something is a hiring, a firing, financial analysis (like managing a salary cap). Poorly run ones, and I obviously include ours in that group, would continue to repeat mistakes because they don't have best practices in place.

I'm also generalizing here but i bet a significant portion of the "executive" on both hockey ops and the other side don't have much accountability. Bad managers = bad employees = bad product.

So i guess the lack of success is not that surprising. Or at least it shouldn't be.


They also have a bad tendency to hire people not for their skills at their current job, but because of what they did previously in a completely different role. I think if you looked at teams across you'd find the org charts are chalk full of former players, who don't really have experience at the roles they're filling.

This leads to a couple other dysfunctions. They're often failing badly, and are afraid of admitting that they're out of their depth (lest they also end up out of a job). Thus they don't want to have more competent people around them that might outperform them.

Secondly, they have a tendency to feel more comfortable in the company of like-thinking individuals, so they tend to hire others with the same viewpoints and skillsets - which usually means more former players. Again, part of this is that they don't feel confident that they'll be right if it comes to a conflict, so better to just build a group that all agrees with each other and then it's harder to pinpoint who's to blame for the things that go wrong...

Lastly, there's a weird skew for salary expectations, because these guys all have made big dollars playing the game. You end up with weird anomalies for salaries (ie. Coffey making $500K to be a part-time assistant coach), which hurt the team's finances and ability to grow other parts of the organization.

I do find it interesting that even the media believes that the teams somehow owe it to their alumni to hire from their ranks...a good soldier player should have some cushy landing spot within the organization. It just isn't conducive to a good corporate culture, and it's prioritizing nepotism over winning. Maybe it sounds cold, but I think that it's on players (and possibly the PA) to find their ways after their hockey days are done. There will be a small percentage who may excel coming back in to the game, but they should go and build a different skill set at a level far below the NHL, and their salaries should adjust to their new role.

If the Oilers ran the team's management as a meritocracy, they likely are in a much, MUCH better position today.



"This team needs an enema!"
#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan #FireBobbyNicks and...SIGH...#FireTheGretzkys

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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM and POHO offer [message #737433 is a reply to message #737352 ]
Fri, 10 May 2019 08:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Magnum  is currently offline Magnum
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Wed, 08 May 2019 10:31

Lol, on Ken Holland's bio on the Oilers website, they felt the need to specifically state that he has full autonomy:

"In this role, Holland will oversee all hockey operations for the Edmonton Oilers with full autonomy, reporting directly to OEG CEO Bob Nicholson."

https://www.nhl.com/oilers/team/coaches-management




Also, how is he "fully autonomous" if he's reporting to Bob Nicholson?!

lmao

Regarding Bobby Nicks, he had 0 experience in NHL management prior to moving over to the Oilers. The only involvement he had with the NHL was negotiating to have them in the Olympics, which is pretty huge, but not a showing of good on-ice production. Why did it take me so long to look this up? He helped produce Gold metals for Canada. In other words, he was able to produce a good level of winning with the deepest talent pool in the world without any budget or cap restrictions.





2015/2016 - This Kool-Aid tastes like McDavid flavoured Drain-O.
2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.
2017/2018 - I'm drinking this Kool-Aid, in hopes that it's Drain-O.
2018/2019 - Another round of Drain-O, good sir!

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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM and POHO offer [message #737778 is a reply to message #737433 ]
Sat, 18 May 2019 16:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
vagabond  is currently offline vagabond
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Magnum wrote on Fri, 10 May 2019 15:15

CrudeRemarks wrote on Wed, 08 May 2019 10:31

Lol, on Ken Holland's bio on the Oilers website, they felt the need to specifically state that he has full autonomy:

"In this role, Holland will oversee all hockey operations for the Edmonton Oilers with full autonomy, reporting directly to OEG CEO Bob Nicholson."

https://www.nhl.com/oilers/team/coaches-management




Also, how is he "fully autonomous" if he's reporting to Bob Nicholson?!

lmao

Regarding Bobby Nicks, he had 0 experience in NHL management prior to moving over to the Oilers. The only involvement he had with the NHL was negotiating to have them in the Olympics, which is pretty huge, but not a showing of good on-ice production. Why did it take me so long to look this up? He helped produce Gold metals for Canada. In other words, he was able to produce a good level of winning with the deepest talent pool in the world without any budget or cap restrictions.






sorry to split hairs here--but while Bobby Nic has no NHL hockey management experience he did have 40 years of Hockey management at different levels and he has always been on the "making money side of things".

HE created many grass roots hockey organizations from the ground up in the 70's and turned around hockey canada making it profitable and building a business structure that they still use today



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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM and POHO offer [message #737780 is a reply to message #737778 ]
Sat, 18 May 2019 19:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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vagabond wrote on Sat, 18 May 2019 16:34

Magnum wrote on Fri, 10 May 2019 15:15

CrudeRemarks wrote on Wed, 08 May 2019 10:31

Lol, on Ken Holland's bio on the Oilers website, they felt the need to specifically state that he has full autonomy:

"In this role, Holland will oversee all hockey operations for the Edmonton Oilers with full autonomy, reporting directly to OEG CEO Bob Nicholson."

https://www.nhl.com/oilers/team/coaches-management




Also, how is he "fully autonomous" if he's reporting to Bob Nicholson?!

lmao

Regarding Bobby Nicks, he had 0 experience in NHL management prior to moving over to the Oilers. The only involvement he had with the NHL was negotiating to have them in the Olympics, which is pretty huge, but not a showing of good on-ice production. Why did it take me so long to look this up? He helped produce Gold metals for Canada. In other words, he was able to produce a good level of winning with the deepest talent pool in the world without any budget or cap restrictions.






sorry to split hairs here--but while Bobby Nic has no NHL hockey management experience he did have 40 years of Hockey management at different levels and he has always been on the "making money side of things".

HE created many grass roots hockey organizations from the ground up in the 70's and turned around hockey canada making it profitable and building a business structure that they still use today

Too bad he never hired a GM in all that time or he might have gotten things right the first time here



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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM and POHO offer [message #737802 is a reply to message #737778 ]
Mon, 20 May 2019 11:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Magnum  is currently offline Magnum
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vagabond wrote on Sat, 18 May 2019 16:34

Magnum wrote on Fri, 10 May 2019 15:15

CrudeRemarks wrote on Wed, 08 May 2019 10:31

Lol, on Ken Holland's bio on the Oilers website, they felt the need to specifically state that he has full autonomy:

"In this role, Holland will oversee all hockey operations for the Edmonton Oilers with full autonomy, reporting directly to OEG CEO Bob Nicholson."

https://www.nhl.com/oilers/team/coaches-management




Also, how is he "fully autonomous" if he's reporting to Bob Nicholson?!

lmao

Regarding Bobby Nicks, he had 0 experience in NHL management prior to moving over to the Oilers. The only involvement he had with the NHL was negotiating to have them in the Olympics, which is pretty huge, but not a showing of good on-ice production. Why did it take me so long to look this up? He helped produce Gold metals for Canada. In other words, he was able to produce a good level of winning with the deepest talent pool in the world without any budget or cap restrictions.






sorry to split hairs here--but while Bobby Nic has no NHL hockey management experience he did have 40 years of Hockey management at different levels and he has always been on the "making money side of things".

HE created many grass roots hockey organizations from the ground up in the 70's and turned around hockey canada making it profitable and building a business structure that they still use today


A fair statement. It's just that he's been on the organizational structuring and business end of things and not really on the on-ice product end.

I don't doubt his hockey business acumen, I do doubt his on-ice team development acumen.



2015/2016 - This Kool-Aid tastes like McDavid flavoured Drain-O.
2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.
2017/2018 - I'm drinking this Kool-Aid, in hopes that it's Drain-O.
2018/2019 - Another round of Drain-O, good sir!

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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM and POHO offer [message #738370 is a reply to message #737802 ]
Mon, 03 June 2019 08:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Magnum  is currently offline Magnum
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If the Oilers didn’t get Holland, what are the odds that K Gretz would’ve been GM?


2015/2016 - This Kool-Aid tastes like McDavid flavoured Drain-O.
2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.
2017/2018 - I'm drinking this Kool-Aid, in hopes that it's Drain-O.
2018/2019 - Another round of Drain-O, good sir!

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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM and POHO offer [message #738371 is a reply to message #738370 ]
Mon, 03 June 2019 08:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Magnum wrote on Mon, 03 June 2019 08:28

If the Oilers didn’t get Holland, what are the odds that K Gretz would’ve been GM?

I would say that the odds were pretty good and that the exact same guys would be here.



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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM and POHO offer [message #738374 is a reply to message #738370 ]
Mon, 03 June 2019 09:10 Go to previous message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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Magnum wrote on Mon, 03 June 2019 08:28

If the Oilers didn’t get Holland, what are the odds that K Gretz would’ve been GM?

They were 7 to 1 on Bodog. I thought I had it locked in but didn't factor in Katz dropping a cool $25 million to convince Holland that the organization isn't a cesspool.



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