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 The New GM Search [message #732519]
Thu, 07 March 2019 14:57 Go to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 10605
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Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Lowetide has an article up on the Athletic that's worth reading. If you aren't willing to pay for the subscription (like me), there's a few free articles a month for anyone who downloads their app. Basically, he says all the foreshadowing suggests that the Oilers know exactly who they're going to have as the GM, and that someone is Keith Gretzky.

And then there's this, also from the Athletic:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1E0TfvV4AAtfQr.png

https://t.co/kcE31oB7RF

Apparently, Nicholson continues to embarrass himself and the franchise as he goes around talking to people, learning about what is really important to him in a general manager. By the way, he regrets not learning what is important in a general manager before he hired his last general manager...that really came back to bite them in the rear.

It will be interesting to see where this lands, but is anyone expecting anything groundbreaking from the Oilers? I see this as simply a battle between Keith Gretzky, or some other old hockey guy who was likely a GM somewhere else at some point. And that person will have to "fit the culture", which means take advice from Lowe, Wayne Gretzky, and assorted other former Oilers and their relatives.



"This team needs an enema!"
#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan #FireBobbyNicks and...SIGH...#FireTheGretzkys

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 Re: The New GM Search [message #732527 is a reply to message #732519 ]
Thu, 07 March 2019 15:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Thu, 07 March 2019 14:57

Lowetide has an article up on the Athletic that's worth reading. If you aren't willing to pay for the subscription (like me), there's a few free articles a month for anyone who downloads their app. Basically, he says all the foreshadowing suggests that the Oilers know exactly who they're going to have as the GM, and that someone is Keith Gretzky.

And then there's this, also from the Athletic:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1E0TfvV4AAtfQr.png

https://t.co/kcE31oB7RF

Apparently, Nicholson continues to embarrass himself and the franchise as he goes around talking to people, learning about what is really important to him in a general manager. By the way, he regrets not learning what is important in a general manager before he hired his last general manager...that really came back to bite them in the rear.

It will be interesting to see where this lands, but is anyone expecting anything groundbreaking from the Oilers? I see this as simply a battle between Keith Gretzky, or some other old hockey guy who was likely a GM somewhere else at some point. And that person will have to "fit the culture", which means take advice from Lowe, Wayne Gretzky, and assorted other former Oilers and their relatives.

I have no problem if Nicholson does some actual background checking on some guys before deciding who to interview. I don't think you can get a job at Wal-Mart without a reference check so it is baffling to me how they thought hiring Chia without doing some due diligence was a good idea.

If he needs to take a month calling people to ask about guys, go ahead do it. He has to get this right.



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 Re: The New GM Search [message #732542 is a reply to message #732527 ]
Thu, 07 March 2019 16:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm  is currently offline nullterm
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 07 March 2019 14:40

Adam wrote on Thu, 07 March 2019 14:57

Lowetide has an article up on the Athletic that's worth reading. If you aren't willing to pay for the subscription (like me), there's a few free articles a month for anyone who downloads their app. Basically, he says all the foreshadowing suggests that the Oilers know exactly who they're going to have as the GM, and that someone is Keith Gretzky.

And then there's this, also from the Athletic:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1E0TfvV4AAtfQr.png

https://t.co/kcE31oB7RF

Apparently, Nicholson continues to embarrass himself and the franchise as he goes around talking to people, learning about what is really important to him in a general manager. By the way, he regrets not learning what is important in a general manager before he hired his last general manager...that really came back to bite them in the rear.

It will be interesting to see where this lands, but is anyone expecting anything groundbreaking from the Oilers? I see this as simply a battle between Keith Gretzky, or some other old hockey guy who was likely a GM somewhere else at some point. And that person will have to "fit the culture", which means take advice from Lowe, Wayne Gretzky, and assorted other former Oilers and their relatives.

I have no problem if Nicholson does some actual background checking on some guys before deciding who to interview. I don't think you can get a job at Wal-Mart without a reference check so it is baffling to me how they thought hiring Chia without doing some due diligence was a good idea.

If he needs to take a month calling people to ask about guys, go ahead do it. He has to get this right.


I'm in the same boat. I don't mind them actually taking time to do a proper search. We don't need a GM until free agency, so wait and see what happens with GMs getting released at the end of the season.

.... do I have confidence they will make the -right- decision at the end of the process? I have more faith in a magic 8 ball.



Illegitimi non carborundum.

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 Re: The New GM Search [message #732552 is a reply to message #732542 ]
Thu, 07 March 2019 17:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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nullterm wrote on Thu, 07 March 2019 16:59


I'm in the same boat. I don't mind them actually taking time to do a proper search. We don't need a GM until free agency, so wait and see what happens with GMs getting released at the end of the season.

.... do I have confidence they will make the -right- decision at the end of the process? I have more faith in a magic 8 ball.


100%.

They should review who's available, who's a good candidate, what a good candidate even looks like, etc.

They probably shouldn't use "talking to other GMs" as a big part of their research. And it IS ominous that he keeps talking about Keith Gretzky every time he talks about what he's looking for...

As CrusaderPi says - the chances are pretty long that the best candidate for the GM is also the brother of the guy who was our best ever player and who happens to have a job in team management...



"This team needs an enema!"
#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan #FireBobbyNicks and...SIGH...#FireTheGretzkys

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 Re: The New GM Search [message #732664 is a reply to message #732542 ]
Sat, 09 March 2019 00:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ragnarok73  is currently offline Ragnarok73
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nullterm wrote on Thu, 07 March 2019 16:59

I'm in the same boat. I don't mind them actually taking time to do a proper search. We don't need a GM until free agency, so wait and see what happens with GMs getting released at the end of the season.

.... do I have confidence they will make the -right- decision at the end of the process? I have more faith in a magic 8 ball.

"So, um, why didn't you gather information the last time, Bob?".



"There's no greater springboard to development than failure." - Craig MacTavish, April 13/15.

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 Re: The New GM Search [message #732714 is a reply to message #732664 ]
Sun, 10 March 2019 12:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm  is currently offline nullterm
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The old timer Oilers beat guys are starting to praise K Gretzky. Probably softening the fan base for what is coming on a wink and nod from our old timer alumni management.

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey /as-the-new-general-manager-of-the-edmonton-oilers-keith-gre tzky-may-be-a-great-one-9-things

Quote:

As an option to be the next General Manager of the Edmonton Oilers Keith Gretzky is a "Great One": 9 Things
BY KURT LEAVINS

The Edmonton Oilers have a leading candidate for their vacant General Manager’s job already within their ranks. His name is Keith Gretzky.

That will make some people unhappy. The Win-Loss record of this franchise over the last dozen years has given fans every right to be skeptical. And there is a constituent that believes that the losing is linked to the past. Those critics blame the “Old Boys Club”, Peter Chiarelli, or some combination of the two.

However I find that a lot of the narrative surrounding Gretzky’s candidacy is riddled with errors and misconceptions. Large assumptions are being confused with facts.
So I want to address some of those here today. As my farmer father would say, let’s separate the wheat from the chaff. ..........
boom



Illegitimi non carborundum.

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 Re: The New GM Search [message #732719 is a reply to message #732714 ]
Sun, 10 March 2019 15:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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nullterm wrote on Sun, 10 March 2019 12:15

The old timer Oilers beat guys are starting to praise K Gretzky. Probably softening the fan base for what is coming on a wink and nod from our old timer alumni management.

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey /as-the-new-general-manager-of-the-edmonton-oilers-keith-gre tzky-may-be-a-great-one-9-things

Quote:

As an option to be the next General Manager of the Edmonton Oilers Keith Gretzky is a "Great One": 9 Things
BY KURT LEAVINS

The Edmonton Oilers have a leading candidate for their vacant General Manager’s job already within their ranks. His name is Keith Gretzky.

That will make some people unhappy. The Win-Loss record of this franchise over the last dozen years has given fans every right to be skeptical. And there is a constituent that believes that the losing is linked to the past. Those critics blame the “Old Boys Club”, Peter Chiarelli, or some combination of the two.

However I find that a lot of the narrative surrounding Gretzky’s candidacy is riddled with errors and misconceptions. Large assumptions are being confused with facts.
So I want to address some of those here today. As my farmer father would say, let’s separate the wheat from the chaff. ..........
boom


Look at this clown too:

Jim Matheson @NHLbyMatty
I too join the chorus of followers of Keith Gretzky. He dealt with other GM's at the trade deadline and the strong word was this: he was calm, knew what he wanted and other GMs liked his work. He definitely should be considered for the vacant GM job.

I've long been of the opinion that you never know exactly what you're getting when NHL teams hire an assistant GM from another team to be GM. It's like a back-up goalie. Do you really know for sure they can be a starter?

To my followers: Keith Gretzky is not part of the Old Boys Club. He has the Gretzky name but he came from Boston Bruins in 2016. He's worked his way up for close to 20 years, first as a scout. So quit with the remarks of the same old, same old from unhappy Oiler fans



Embarrassing garbage. Retire Matheson.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: The New GM Search [message #732720 is a reply to message #732719 ]
Sun, 10 March 2019 15:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260  is currently offline smyth260
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Kr55 wrote on Sun, 10 March 2019

He's worked his way up for close to 20 years, first as a scout. So quit with the remarks of the same old, same old from unhappy Oiler fans


Yeah, he started in Phoenix nearly 20 years ago! Paid his dues! It's irrelevant that his brother had just bought the team prior to Keith's onboarding....



Clean house or bust

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 Re: The New GM Search [message #732721 is a reply to message #732719 ]
Sun, 10 March 2019 15:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm  is currently offline nullterm
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Kr55 wrote on Sun, 10 March 2019 14:12

nullterm wrote on Sun, 10 March 2019 12:15

The old timer Oilers beat guys are starting to praise K Gretzky. Probably softening the fan base for what is coming on a wink and nod from our old timer alumni management.

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey /as-the-new-general-manager-of-the-edmonton-oilers-keith-gre tzky-may-be-a-great-one-9-things

Quote:

As an option to be the next General Manager of the Edmonton Oilers Keith Gretzky is a "Great One": 9 Things
BY KURT LEAVINS

The Edmonton Oilers have a leading candidate for their vacant General Manager’s job already within their ranks. His name is Keith Gretzky.

That will make some people unhappy. The Win-Loss record of this franchise over the last dozen years has given fans every right to be skeptical. And there is a constituent that believes that the losing is linked to the past. Those critics blame the “Old Boys Club”, Peter Chiarelli, or some combination of the two.

However I find that a lot of the narrative surrounding Gretzky’s candidacy is riddled with errors and misconceptions. Large assumptions are being confused with facts.
So I want to address some of those here today. As my farmer father would say, let’s separate the wheat from the chaff. ..........
boom


Look at this clown too:

Jim Matheson @NHLbyMatty
I too join the chorus of followers of Keith Gretzky. He dealt with other GM's at the trade deadline and the strong word was this: he was calm, knew what he wanted and other GMs liked his work. He definitely should be considered for the vacant GM job.

I've long been of the opinion that you never know exactly what you're getting when NHL teams hire an assistant GM from another team to be GM. It's like a back-up goalie. Do you really know for sure they can be a starter?

To my followers: Keith Gretzky is not part of the Old Boys Club. He has the Gretzky name but he came from Boston Bruins in 2016. He's worked his way up for close to 20 years, first as a scout. So quit with the remarks of the same old, same old from unhappy Oiler fans



Embarrassing garbage. Retire Matheson.


I like how both strongly try to paint that Keith isn’t part of “The Old Boys Club” like it’s (finally) a generally accepted idea the OBC is the root cause of all the team’s problems.

Hopefully the facade is starting to crumble away.



Illegitimi non carborundum.

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 Re: The New GM Search [message #732726 is a reply to message #732721 ]
Sun, 10 March 2019 17:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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nullterm wrote on Sun, 10 March 2019 15:21

Kr55 wrote on Sun, 10 March 2019 14:12

nullterm wrote on Sun, 10 March 2019 12:15

The old timer Oilers beat guys are starting to praise K Gretzky. Probably softening the fan base for what is coming on a wink and nod from our old timer alumni management.

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey /as-the-new-general-manager-of-the-edmonton-oilers-keith-gre tzky-may-be-a-great-one-9-things

Quote:

As an option to be the next General Manager of the Edmonton Oilers Keith Gretzky is a "Great One": 9 Things
BY KURT LEAVINS

The Edmonton Oilers have a leading candidate for their vacant General Manager’s job already within their ranks. His name is Keith Gretzky.

That will make some people unhappy. The Win-Loss record of this franchise over the last dozen years has given fans every right to be skeptical. And there is a constituent that believes that the losing is linked to the past. Those critics blame the “Old Boys Club”, Peter Chiarelli, or some combination of the two.

However I find that a lot of the narrative surrounding Gretzky’s candidacy is riddled with errors and misconceptions. Large assumptions are being confused with facts.
So I want to address some of those here today. As my farmer father would say, let’s separate the wheat from the chaff. ..........
boom


Look at this clown too:

Jim Matheson @NHLbyMatty
I too join the chorus of followers of Keith Gretzky. He dealt with other GM's at the trade deadline and the strong word was this: he was calm, knew what he wanted and other GMs liked his work. He definitely should be considered for the vacant GM job.

I've long been of the opinion that you never know exactly what you're getting when NHL teams hire an assistant GM from another team to be GM. It's like a back-up goalie. Do you really know for sure they can be a starter?

To my followers: Keith Gretzky is not part of the Old Boys Club. He has the Gretzky name but he came from Boston Bruins in 2016. He's worked his way up for close to 20 years, first as a scout. So quit with the remarks of the same old, same old from unhappy Oiler fans



Embarrassing garbage. Retire Matheson.


I like how both strongly try to paint that Keith isn’t part of “The Old Boys Club” like it’s (finally) a generally accepted idea the OBC is the root cause of all the team’s problems.

Hopefully the facade is starting to crumble away.

As long as the other GMs think kieth is good to deal with...



This is fine.

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 Re: The New GM Search [message #732730 is a reply to message #732726 ]
Sun, 10 March 2019 22:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 10605
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CrusaderPi wrote on Sun, 10 March 2019 17:57

nullterm wrote on Sun, 10 March 2019 15:21

Kr55 wrote on Sun, 10 March 2019 14:12

nullterm wrote on Sun, 10 March 2019 12:15

The old timer Oilers beat guys are starting to praise K Gretzky. Probably softening the fan base for what is coming on a wink and nod from our old timer alumni management.

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey /as-the-new-general-manager-of-the-edmonton-oilers-keith-gre tzky-may-be-a-great-one-9-things

Quote:

As an option to be the next General Manager of the Edmonton Oilers Keith Gretzky is a "Great One": 9 Things
BY KURT LEAVINS

The Edmonton Oilers have a leading candidate for their vacant General Manager’s job already within their ranks. His name is Keith Gretzky.

That will make some people unhappy. The Win-Loss record of this franchise over the last dozen years has given fans every right to be skeptical. And there is a constituent that believes that the losing is linked to the past. Those critics blame the “Old Boys Club”, Peter Chiarelli, or some combination of the two.

However I find that a lot of the narrative surrounding Gretzky’s candidacy is riddled with errors and misconceptions. Large assumptions are being confused with facts.
So I want to address some of those here today. As my farmer father would say, let’s separate the wheat from the chaff. ..........
boom


Look at this clown too:

Jim Matheson @NHLbyMatty
I too join the chorus of followers of Keith Gretzky. He dealt with other GM's at the trade deadline and the strong word was this: he was calm, knew what he wanted and other GMs liked his work. He definitely should be considered for the vacant GM job.

I've long been of the opinion that you never know exactly what you're getting when NHL teams hire an assistant GM from another team to be GM. It's like a back-up goalie. Do you really know for sure they can be a starter?

To my followers: Keith Gretzky is not part of the Old Boys Club. He has the Gretzky name but he came from Boston Bruins in 2016. He's worked his way up for close to 20 years, first as a scout. So quit with the remarks of the same old, same old from unhappy Oiler fans



Embarrassing garbage. Retire Matheson.


I like how both strongly try to paint that Keith isn’t part of “The Old Boys Club” like it’s (finally) a generally accepted idea the OBC is the root cause of all the team’s problems.

Hopefully the facade is starting to crumble away.

As long as the other GMs think kieth is good to deal with...


This seems to be a recurring theme.

I don't get the feeling that Matheson has the same channels in with the other GMs around the league that he once did, so what do you bet that this has been fed him by Bob Nicholson?

After all, we know Bobby Nicks was calling up GMs to see what they thought the next Oilers GM should look like...



"This team needs an enema!"
#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan #FireBobbyNicks and...SIGH...#FireTheGretzkys

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 Re: The New GM Search [message #732587 is a reply to message #732519 ]
Thu, 07 March 2019 21:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
g2k  is currently offline g2k
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Adam wrote on Thu, 07 March 2019 14:57

It will be interesting to see where this lands, but is anyone expecting anything groundbreaking from the Oilers? I see this as simply a battle between Keith Gretzky, or some other old hockey guy who was likely a GM somewhere else at some point. And that person will have to "fit the culture", which means take advice from Lowe, Wayne Gretzky, and assorted other former Oilers and their relatives.

Culture of being a perennial loser.



#firebob

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 Re: The New GM Search [message #732619 is a reply to message #732587 ]
Fri, 08 March 2019 09:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Does anyone know if the names being thrown around for the GM are hard ass negotiators?

The one thing with Chia was when he decided he wanted a guy either in free agency or trades, he got that guy which was fine EXCEPT he was willing to pay whatever it took. Either in money, term or assets. I am totally cool and want the next GM to be a guy who's aggressive, willing to go after players and do whatever it takes to make the team better BUT I sure as hell don't want a guy who's willing to do that and screw the team. If you want a guy in trade, I am not the type of guy who thinks every trade needs to be a fleecing, I just want the trade to be fair. If it works out for both teams, I am fine with that. But most of Chia's trade were a clear win for the other team in that either the return clearly wasn't enough or the player going leaving vs coming back wasn't close. Like the Hall trade. I understood to a degree why the trade happened. They needed a right shot top 4 dman badly. The Oilers had jack squat other than Hall that was worth anything. So you decide to trade him. What you can't do is go straight up for Larsson because you lose it badly. If it's Larsson and say a young, bottom 6 guy who won't be more than a bottom 6 or Larsson and a decent pick. Then you can accept that but not straight up.

So I hope the next guy is a bit of a better negotiator both for contracts and trades.



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 Re: The New GM Search [message #732636 is a reply to message #732619 ]
Fri, 08 March 2019 13:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gator21  is currently offline Gator21
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RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 08 March 2019 09:50

Does anyone know if the names being thrown around for the GM are hard ass negotiators?

The one thing with Chia was when he decided he wanted a guy either in free agency or trades, he got that guy which was fine EXCEPT he was willing to pay whatever it took. Either in money, term or assets. I am totally cool and want the next GM to be a guy who's aggressive, willing to go after players and do whatever it takes to make the team better BUT I sure as hell don't want a guy who's willing to do that and screw the team. If you want a guy in trade, I am not the type of guy who thinks every trade needs to be a fleecing, I just want the trade to be fair. If it works out for both teams, I am fine with that. But most of Chia's trade were a clear win for the other team in that either the return clearly wasn't enough or the player going leaving vs coming back wasn't close. Like the Hall trade. I understood to a degree why the trade happened. They needed a right shot top 4 dman badly. The Oilers had jack squat other than Hall that was worth anything. So you decide to trade him. What you can't do is go straight up for Larsson because you lose it badly. If it's Larsson and say a young, bottom 6 guy who won't be more than a bottom 6 or Larsson and a decent pick. Then you can accept that but not straight up.

So I hope the next guy is a bit of a better negotiator both for contracts and trades.


Brad Treliving



Death by a Thousand Cuts

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 Re: The New GM Search [message #732639 is a reply to message #732619 ]
Fri, 08 March 2019 14:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bigEfromGP  is currently offline bigEfromGP
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RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 08 March 2019 09:50

Does anyone know if the names being thrown around for the GM are hard ass negotiators?

The one thing with Chia was when he decided he wanted a guy either in free agency or trades, he got that guy which was fine EXCEPT he was willing to pay whatever it took. Either in money, term or assets. I am totally cool and want the next GM to be a guy who's aggressive, willing to go after players and do whatever it takes to make the team better BUT I sure as hell don't want a guy who's willing to do that and screw the team. If you want a guy in trade, I am not the type of guy who thinks every trade needs to be a fleecing, I just want the trade to be fair. If it works out for both teams, I am fine with that. But most of Chia's trade were a clear win for the other team in that either the return clearly wasn't enough or the player going leaving vs coming back wasn't close. Like the Hall trade. I understood to a degree why the trade happened. They needed a right shot top 4 dman badly. The Oilers had jack squat other than Hall that was worth anything. So you decide to trade him. What you can't do is go straight up for Larsson because you lose it badly. If it's Larsson and say a young, bottom 6 guy who won't be more than a bottom 6 or Larsson and a decent pick. Then you can accept that but not straight up.

So I hope the next guy is a bit of a better negotiator both for contracts and trades.


Prior to Chia though we saw the polar opposite (several times over in fact). Previous GM's overvalued their assets and we always go on about "we were in the discussions but the price was too high", and then either waste that asset (and remove all value) or over value the asset as an RFA and overpay.



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 Re: The New GM Search [message #732641 is a reply to message #732639 ]
Fri, 08 March 2019 14:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 3977
Registered: January 2016

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bigEfromGP wrote on Fri, 08 March 2019 14:05

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 08 March 2019 09:50

Does anyone know if the names being thrown around for the GM are hard ass negotiators?

The one thing with Chia was when he decided he wanted a guy either in free agency or trades, he got that guy which was fine EXCEPT he was willing to pay whatever it took. Either in money, term or assets. I am totally cool and want the next GM to be a guy who's aggressive, willing to go after players and do whatever it takes to make the team better BUT I sure as hell don't want a guy who's willing to do that and screw the team. If you want a guy in trade, I am not the type of guy who thinks every trade needs to be a fleecing, I just want the trade to be fair. If it works out for both teams, I am fine with that. But most of Chia's trade were a clear win for the other team in that either the return clearly wasn't enough or the player going leaving vs coming back wasn't close. Like the Hall trade. I understood to a degree why the trade happened. They needed a right shot top 4 dman badly. The Oilers had jack squat other than Hall that was worth anything. So you decide to trade him. What you can't do is go straight up for Larsson because you lose it badly. If it's Larsson and say a young, bottom 6 guy who won't be more than a bottom 6 or Larsson and a decent pick. Then you can accept that but not straight up.

So I hope the next guy is a bit of a better negotiator both for contracts and trades.


Prior to Chia though we saw the polar opposite (several times over in fact). Previous GM's overvalued their assets and we always go on about "we were in the discussions but the price was too high", and then either waste that asset (and remove all value) or over value the asset as an RFA and overpay.

I agree with you. Tambo was WAY too cautious and was afraid to do anything. Mac T thought every player they had was going to win all the awards before they even played a game. Then hung on to some guys WAY too long.

The Oilers need a guy who is a good negotiator, will to be aggressive when it's time to be aggressive but not reckless like Chia was and cautious/patient when the time calls for it. He needs to be more realistic with their players. I would almost slightly under estimate them vs grossly over estimate like the norm has been. They also need a guy who is WAY better at assessing a player. A good example is Yak. Say what you want about the development, the guy wasn't even close to being the player he should be given where he was drafted and no development was going to fix the mountain of holes he had in his game to make him close to being a #1. A good GM would have recognized that faster and cut bait on him a year or 2 sooner to get better return for him.



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 Re: The New GM Search [message #732644 is a reply to message #732641 ]
Fri, 08 March 2019 14:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 08 March 2019 14:22


The Oilers need a guy who is a good negotiator, will to be aggressive when it's time to be aggressive but not reckless like Chia was and cautious/patient when the time calls for it. He needs to be more realistic with their players. I would almost slightly under estimate them vs grossly over estimate like the norm has been. They also need a guy who is WAY better at assessing a player. A good example is Yak. Say what you want about the development, the guy wasn't even close to being the player he should be given where he was drafted and no development was going to fix the mountain of holes he had in his game to make him close to being a #1. A good GM would have recognized that faster and cut bait on him a year or 2 sooner to get better return for him.


Counter-point:

What if the Oilers had acted supportive with Yakupov, who was a bit of a loner, in a foreign country, not speaking in his first language, and has a bit of a different personality? What if they had done more to either put him in a position to succeed, or communicate to him what they wanted. I believe he was one of the first to mention that he didn't know what was expected of him from McLellan in their one season together - something we heard repeatedly about McLellan.

If the Oilers had decided he wasn't going to be here long-term, what if instead of pushing him down the lineup - in a year where the playoffs were an afterthought anyhow, they gave him a push up the lineup to see if he built confidence, chemistry and value. What if they also gave him some PP reps to see if he could add some scoring there?

Yakupov's scoring rates with top players were pretty good - he just couldn't drive a line by himself and so his numbers slumped when played with fourth liners. What if the Oilers talked up that he scored 23 points in only 60 games, despite mostly playing a depth role, instead of saying he scored ONLY 23 points, and he's a disappointment of a first overall pick?

A good GM should be able to build value. Sometimes that may mean working with a coach and letting them in on the gameplan.

The Oilers have had MANY chances for roster experimentation to build the value of fading players, but they usually decide to assassinate the player's character anonymously in the media and drop the player down the depth chart, rather than approach it the way they should.

Want a contrast? Look at the Lightning with Drouin. They not only welcomed him back, they gave him lots of opportunities with top players and put him in a position to succeed. He rewarded them with a 53 point season, and then they got a top tier defenceman prospect for him - probably a better pickup than the Oilers got for Taylor Freakin' Hall.



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 Re: The New GM Search [message #732648 is a reply to message #732644 ]
Fri, 08 March 2019 16:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Fri, 08 March 2019 14:42

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 08 March 2019 14:22


The Oilers need a guy who is a good negotiator, will to be aggressive when it's time to be aggressive but not reckless like Chia was and cautious/patient when the time calls for it. He needs to be more realistic with their players. I would almost slightly under estimate them vs grossly over estimate like the norm has been. They also need a guy who is WAY better at assessing a player. A good example is Yak. Say what you want about the development, the guy wasn't even close to being the player he should be given where he was drafted and no development was going to fix the mountain of holes he had in his game to make him close to being a #1. A good GM would have recognized that faster and cut bait on him a year or 2 sooner to get better return for him.


Counter-point:

What if the Oilers had acted supportive with Yakupov, who was a bit of a loner, in a foreign country, not speaking in his first language, and has a bit of a different personality? What if they had done more to either put him in a position to succeed, or communicate to him what they wanted. I believe he was one of the first to mention that he didn't know what was expected of him from McLellan in their one season together - something we heard repeatedly about McLellan.

If the Oilers had decided he wasn't going to be here long-term, what if instead of pushing him down the lineup - in a year where the playoffs were an afterthought anyhow, they gave him a push up the lineup to see if he built confidence, chemistry and value. What if they also gave him some PP reps to see if he could add some scoring there?

Yakupov's scoring rates with top players were pretty good - he just couldn't drive a line by himself and so his numbers slumped when played with fourth liners. What if the Oilers talked up that he scored 23 points in only 60 games, despite mostly playing a depth role, instead of saying he scored ONLY 23 points, and he's a disappointment of a first overall pick?

A good GM should be able to build value. Sometimes that may mean working with a coach and letting them in on the gameplan.

The Oilers have had MANY chances for roster experimentation to build the value of fading players, but they usually decide to assassinate the player's character anonymously in the media and drop the player down the depth chart, rather than approach it the way they should.

Want a contrast? Look at the Lightning with Drouin. They not only welcomed him back, they gave him lots of opportunities with top players and put him in a position to succeed. He rewarded them with a 53 point season, and then they got a top tier defenceman prospect for him - probably a better pickup than the Oilers got for Taylor Freakin' Hall.

Yak spent 2 years in they CHL. He wasn't straight from Russia. He knew the language and knew the culture.

Yak was a #1 overall. The norm like it or not Adam is guys taken #1 overall to jump into the NHL right away and make an impact for their team immediately. Don't believe me, look up the all the#1's for the NHL. I had to go back to 2006 with Erik Johnson to find a guy that didn't jump in the first year and in the last 20 yrs, very few have not made the jump immediately and weren't impact players. Yak was in the league for 6 yrs. Went through 3 organizations. Had 5 GM's (3 with the Oilers), how ever many other management guys, 7 NHL coaches (4 with the Oilers) I don't know how many assistant coaches. NONE of these guys could turn him into a full time NHLer and he's in the KHL now potentially never to be seen again.

If you want to say the Oilers didn't handle Yak right, sure, I will buy it to some degree. But you are telling me that it's all the Oilers fault with Yak? Come on. He went to 2 other teams, had how ever many other people work with him and 2 other teams felt he was junk.



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 Re: The New GM Search [message #732649 is a reply to message #732648 ]
Fri, 08 March 2019 17:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 08 March 2019 16:13

Adam wrote on Fri, 08 March 2019 14:42

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 08 March 2019 14:22


The Oilers need a guy who is a good negotiator, will to be aggressive when it's time to be aggressive but not reckless like Chia was and cautious/patient when the time calls for it. He needs to be more realistic with their players. I would almost slightly under estimate them vs grossly over estimate like the norm has been. They also need a guy who is WAY better at assessing a player. A good example is Yak. Say what you want about the development, the guy wasn't even close to being the player he should be given where he was drafted and no development was going to fix the mountain of holes he had in his game to make him close to being a #1. A good GM would have recognized that faster and cut bait on him a year or 2 sooner to get better return for him.


Counter-point:

What if the Oilers had acted supportive with Yakupov, who was a bit of a loner, in a foreign country, not speaking in his first language, and has a bit of a different personality? What if they had done more to either put him in a position to succeed, or communicate to him what they wanted. I believe he was one of the first to mention that he didn't know what was expected of him from McLellan in their one season together - something we heard repeatedly about McLellan.

If the Oilers had decided he wasn't going to be here long-term, what if instead of pushing him down the lineup - in a year where the playoffs were an afterthought anyhow, they gave him a push up the lineup to see if he built confidence, chemistry and value. What if they also gave him some PP reps to see if he could add some scoring there?

Yakupov's scoring rates with top players were pretty good - he just couldn't drive a line by himself and so his numbers slumped when played with fourth liners. What if the Oilers talked up that he scored 23 points in only 60 games, despite mostly playing a depth role, instead of saying he scored ONLY 23 points, and he's a disappointment of a first overall pick?

A good GM should be able to build value. Sometimes that may mean working with a coach and letting them in on the gameplan.

The Oilers have had MANY chances for roster experimentation to build the value of fading players, but they usually decide to assassinate the player's character anonymously in the media and drop the player down the depth chart, rather than approach it the way they should.

Want a contrast? Look at the Lightning with Drouin. They not only welcomed him back, they gave him lots of opportunities with top players and put him in a position to succeed. He rewarded them with a 53 point season, and then they got a top tier defenceman prospect for him - probably a better pickup than the Oilers got for Taylor Freakin' Hall.

Yak spent 2 years in they CHL. He wasn't straight from Russia. He knew the language and knew the culture.

Yak was a #1 overall. The norm like it or not Adam is guys taken #1 overall to jump into the NHL right away and make an impact for their team immediately. Don't believe me, look up the all the#1's for the NHL. I had to go back to 2006 with Erik Johnson to find a guy that didn't jump in the first year and in the last 20 yrs, very few have not made the jump immediately and weren't impact players. Yak was in the league for 6 yrs. Went through 3 organizations. Had 5 GM's (3 with the Oilers), how ever many other management guys, 7 NHL coaches (4 with the Oilers) I don't know how many assistant coaches. NONE of these guys could turn him into a full time NHLer and he's in the KHL now potentially never to be seen again.

If you want to say the Oilers didn't handle Yak right, sure, I will buy it to some degree. But you are telling me that it's all the Oilers fault with Yak? Come on. He went to 2 other teams, had how ever many other people work with him and 2 other teams felt he was junk.


Counter-point:

What's "Normal" for development doesn't matter and teams need to make decisions based on where a player actually is, not where they think he should be based on the spot he was drafted.

You'll note if you read my previous post, I didn't say Yakupov bore no responsibility. Not at all. I think Yakupov's personality was a challenge in helping him to fit in, and that was a major factor. I do also think that two years as a teenager playing in Canada doesn't fully acclimate you, nor does it make English your first language.

My whole point was that the Oilers squandered the asset and should have got more than what they did for a guy who wasn't that far removed from being the first overall pick - in part because a lot of NHL GMs make the same error as you do - thinking that where a player was drafted matters at all after the moment he leaves the stage at his draft and negotiates his first contract.

If the Oilers had done what I suggested above, they may well have seen something more useful than a middling draft pick and a scrub - but the team is afraid of the perception, so they'd prefer to show nothing but "tough love" for a player, and leak to their media buddies how he doesn't "get it" and he's not "gritty enough" and he doesn't have a "winning attitude" and he's not "mentally tough enough"...and then by the time they trade him, half the fan base already kind of hates him, and half the rest are going to be convinced when it starts getting whispered that he wasn't really a good teammate, and he wanted to get traded, and he was never really Oilers material. And presto! No one hates the GM and Vice-Chairs for trading a guy who just "wasn't ever going to work out"...besides, if you think about it, it was almost Yakupov for a scrub, a pick and Kris Russell!



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 Re: The New GM Search [message #732650 is a reply to message #732648 ]
Fri, 08 March 2019 18:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike  is currently offline Mike
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RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 08 March 2019 19:13

Yak was a #1 overall. The norm like it or not Adam is guys taken #1 overall to jump into the NHL right away and make an impact for their team immediately. Don't believe me, look up the all the#1's for the NHL. I had to go back to 2006 with Erik Johnson to find a guy that didn't jump in the first year and in the last 20 yrs, very few have not made the jump immediately and weren't impact players. Yak was in the league for 6 yrs. Went through 3 organizations. Had 5 GM's (3 with the Oilers), how ever many other management guys, 7 NHL coaches (4 with the Oilers) I don't know how many assistant coaches. NONE of these guys could turn him into a full time NHLer and he's in the KHL now potentially never to be seen again.


Yak did jump into the NHL right away, and he was the rookie scoring leader that year. 17-14-31 in 48GP. He had some warts, but certainly looked promising.



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 Re: The New GM Search [message #732651 is a reply to message #732650 ]
Fri, 08 March 2019 18:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Mike wrote on Fri, 08 March 2019 18:00

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 08 March 2019 19:13

Yak was a #1 overall. The norm like it or not Adam is guys taken #1 overall to jump into the NHL right away and make an impact for their team immediately. Don't believe me, look up the all the#1's for the NHL. I had to go back to 2006 with Erik Johnson to find a guy that didn't jump in the first year and in the last 20 yrs, very few have not made the jump immediately and weren't impact players. Yak was in the league for 6 yrs. Went through 3 organizations. Had 5 GM's (3 with the Oilers), how ever many other management guys, 7 NHL coaches (4 with the Oilers) I don't know how many assistant coaches. NONE of these guys could turn him into a full time NHLer and he's in the KHL now potentially never to be seen again.


Yak did jump into the NHL right away, and he was the rookie scoring leader that year. 17-14-31 in 48GP. He had some warts, but certainly looked promising.


And he looked like an NHLer under 2 coaches, Krueger and Nelson. The only 2 coaches he had that actually were players coaches and enjoyed putting in a full effort on and off the ice to get the most out of their players.

I think an erosion of skill was a big problem for Yak. After Krueger he went almost 4 years in the NHL without being allowed to take a 1-timer on the PP. Only little break of that was when Nelson was coaching him and he did get it back before that season was over, but that was it, back in the dog house under McLellan. You go that long without using your bread and butter skills in real game situations, and you only get 1 chance every 2 months or so when the coach is desperate to try to prove you still have it. It's just not gonna happen for you any more.

[Updated on: Fri, 08 March 2019 18:10]


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 Re: The New GM Search [message #732663 is a reply to message #732651 ]
Fri, 08 March 2019 23:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Kr55 wrote on Fri, 08 March 2019 18:05

Mike wrote on Fri, 08 March 2019 18:00

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 08 March 2019 19:13

Yak was a #1 overall. The norm like it or not Adam is guys taken #1 overall to jump into the NHL right away and make an impact for their team immediately. Don't believe me, look up the all the#1's for the NHL. I had to go back to 2006 with Erik Johnson to find a guy that didn't jump in the first year and in the last 20 yrs, very few have not made the jump immediately and weren't impact players. Yak was in the league for 6 yrs. Went through 3 organizations. Had 5 GM's (3 with the Oilers), how ever many other management guys, 7 NHL coaches (4 with the Oilers) I don't know how many assistant coaches. NONE of these guys could turn him into a full time NHLer and he's in the KHL now potentially never to be seen again.


Yak did jump into the NHL right away, and he was the rookie scoring leader that year. 17-14-31 in 48GP. He had some warts, but certainly looked promising.


And he looked like an NHLer under 2 coaches, Krueger and Nelson. The only 2 coaches he had that actually were players coaches and enjoyed putting in a full effort on and off the ice to get the most out of their players.

I think an erosion of skill was a big problem for Yak. After Krueger he went almost 4 years in the NHL without being allowed to take a 1-timer on the PP. Only little break of that was when Nelson was coaching him and he did get it back before that season was over, but that was it, back in the dog house under McLellan. You go that long without using your bread and butter skills in real game situations, and you only get 1 chance every 2 months or so when the coach is desperate to try to prove you still have it. It's just not gonna happen for you any more.

One thing that never gets mentioned with Yak. There was never even consideration of sending him to the minors. Much like JP, I believe there was an agreement with the agent that he’d stay in the big leagues no matter what. The threat of him going to the KHL was the worry I’m sure. Imagine your #1 overall leaving. You’d be left with nothing!



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 Re: The New GM Search [message #732733 is a reply to message #732651 ]
Sun, 10 March 2019 23:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Prince Albert 1  is currently offline Prince Albert 1
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Kr55 wrote on Fri, 08 March 2019 19:05

Mike wrote on Fri, 08 March 2019 18:00

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 08 March 2019 19:13

Yak was a #1 overall. The norm like it or not Adam is guys taken #1 overall to jump into the NHL right away and make an impact for their team immediately. Don't believe me, look up the all the#1's for the NHL. I had to go back to 2006 with Erik Johnson to find a guy that didn't jump in the first year and in the last 20 yrs, very few have not made the jump immediately and weren't impact players. Yak was in the league for 6 yrs. Went through 3 organizations. Had 5 GM's (3 with the Oilers), how ever many other management guys, 7 NHL coaches (4 with the Oilers) I don't know how many assistant coaches. NONE of these guys could turn him into a full time NHLer and he's in the KHL now potentially never to be seen again.


Yak did jump into the NHL right away, and he was the rookie scoring leader that year. 17-14-31 in 48GP. He had some warts, but certainly looked promising.


And he looked like an NHLer under 2 coaches, Krueger and Nelson. The only 2 coaches he had that actually were players coaches and enjoyed putting in a full effort on and off the ice to get the most out of their players.

I think an erosion of skill was a big problem for Yak. After Krueger he went almost 4



years in the NHL without being allowed to take a 1-timer on the PP. Only little break of that was when Nelson was coaching him and he did get it back before that season was over, but that was it, back in the dog house under McLellan. You go that long without using your bread and butter skills in real game situations, and you only get 1 chance every 2 months or so when the coach is desperate to try to prove you still have it. It's just not gonna happen for you any more.


Sound familiar? We have watched the degradation of another valuable asset by this organization. Can easily cut n paste Yakupovs name for Puljujärvi’s and The same valid points resonate.



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 Re: The New GM Search [message #732652 is a reply to message #732650 ]
Fri, 08 March 2019 19:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Ralph Kruger knew how to handle Yak and had he remained as head coach this story could have turned out a lot different for him and us fans. But the boys got to talkin' hockey and we know how that turned out. The team was to suck for years to come and Yak is back in Russia.


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 Re: The New GM Search [message #732653 is a reply to message #732652 ]
Fri, 08 March 2019 19:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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overdue wrote on Fri, 08 March 2019 20:06

Ralph Kruger knew how to handle Yak and had he remained as head coach this story could have turned out a lot different for him and us fans. But the boys got to talkin' hockey and we know how that turned out. The team was to suck for years to come and Yak is back in Russia.


But if they do the same with a Fin, it cancels out, yeah?



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 Re: The New GM Search [message #732660 is a reply to message #732653 ]
Fri, 08 March 2019 21:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Oscargasm wrote on Fri, 08 March 2019 19:23

overdue wrote on Fri, 08 March 2019 20:06

Ralph Kruger knew how to handle Yak and had he remained as head coach this story could have turned out a lot different for him and us fans. But the boys got to talkin' hockey and we know how that turned out. The team was to suck for years to come and Yak is back in Russia.


But if they do the same with a Fin, it cancels out, yeah?


Not sure, I'll have to check with the Hockey gods and get back to you.



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 Re: The New GM Search [message #732642 is a reply to message #732639 ]
Fri, 08 March 2019 14:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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bigEfromGP wrote on Fri, 08 March 2019 14:05

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 08 March 2019 09:50

Does anyone know if the names being thrown around for the GM are hard ass negotiators?

The one thing with Chia was when he decided he wanted a guy either in free agency or trades, he got that guy which was fine EXCEPT he was willing to pay whatever it took. Either in money, term or assets. I am totally cool and want the next GM to be a guy who's aggressive, willing to go after players and do whatever it takes to make the team better BUT I sure as hell don't want a guy who's willing to do that and screw the team. If you want a guy in trade, I am not the type of guy who thinks every trade needs to be a fleecing, I just want the trade to be fair. If it works out for both teams, I am fine with that. But most of Chia's trade were a clear win for the other team in that either the return clearly wasn't enough or the player going leaving vs coming back wasn't close. Like the Hall trade. I understood to a degree why the trade happened. They needed a right shot top 4 dman badly. The Oilers had jack squat other than Hall that was worth anything. So you decide to trade him. What you can't do is go straight up for Larsson because you lose it badly. If it's Larsson and say a young, bottom 6 guy who won't be more than a bottom 6 or Larsson and a decent pick. Then you can accept that but not straight up.

So I hope the next guy is a bit of a better negotiator both for contracts and trades.


Prior to Chia though we saw the polar opposite (several times over in fact). Previous GM's overvalued their assets and we always go on about "we were in the discussions but the price was too high", and then either waste that asset (and remove all value) or over value the asset as an RFA and overpay.


I don't really think the problem in the MacT/Tambellini eras was over-valuing assets. They may have done that, but their biggest problem was always telegraphing their moves. They'd specify what precisely they want, and they (esp. MacT) would talk about the players he wanted to move. It put him in a constant position of weakness in any negotiation.

I think someone from here mentioned once they met MacTavish at the airport and he blabbed on and on there with them about what he wanted to do with the team - to a total stranger - so I can only imagine he was a tire fire when he got on the line with a friendly GM...

The Oilers also have been guilty ever since shortly after Lowe took the reigns of trying to soften the market before any move by bashing them through the media. I think that Lowe liked how in the Comrie deal, everyone was mad at Comrie, rather than Lowe, and decided that's a much better strategy than when he dealt Weight and Guerin and people were generally just upset...

I'd prefer to see players over-valued and held than sold off at a discount. A good GM will build value before he makes a deal. And probably make sure he's got a competitive market for his asset.



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 Re: The New GM Search [message #732643 is a reply to message #732642 ]
Fri, 08 March 2019 14:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Fri, 08 March 2019 13:26

bigEfromGP wrote on Fri, 08 March 2019 14:05

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 08 March 2019 09:50

Does anyone know if the names being thrown around for the GM are hard ass negotiators?

The one thing with Chia was when he decided he wanted a guy either in free agency or trades, he got that guy which was fine EXCEPT he was willing to pay whatever it took. Either in money, term or assets. I am totally cool and want the next GM to be a guy who's aggressive, willing to go after players and do whatever it takes to make the team better BUT I sure as hell don't want a guy who's willing to do that and screw the team. If you want a guy in trade, I am not the type of guy who thinks every trade needs to be a fleecing, I just want the trade to be fair. If it works out for both teams, I am fine with that. But most of Chia's trade were a clear win for the other team in that either the return clearly wasn't enough or the player going leaving vs coming back wasn't close. Like the Hall trade. I understood to a degree why the trade happened. They needed a right shot top 4 dman badly. The Oilers had jack squat other than Hall that was worth anything. So you decide to trade him. What you can't do is go straight up for Larsson because you lose it badly. If it's Larsson and say a young, bottom 6 guy who won't be more than a bottom 6 or Larsson and a decent pick. Then you can accept that but not straight up.

So I hope the next guy is a bit of a better negotiator both for contracts and trades.


Prior to Chia though we saw the polar opposite (several times over in fact). Previous GM's overvalued their assets and we always go on about "we were in the discussions but the price was too high", and then either waste that asset (and remove all value) or over value the asset as an RFA and overpay.


I don't really think the problem in the MacT/Tambellini eras was over-valuing assets. They may have done that, but their biggest problem was always telegraphing their moves. They'd specify what precisely they want, and they (esp. MacT) would talk about the players he wanted to move. It put him in a constant position of weakness in any negotiation.

I think someone from here mentioned once they met MacTavish at the airport and he blabbed on and on there with them about what he wanted to do with the team - to a total stranger - so I can only imagine he was a tire fire when he got on the line with a friendly GM...

The Oilers also have been guilty ever since shortly after Lowe took the reigns of trying to soften the market before any move by bashing them through the media. I think that Lowe liked how in the Comrie deal, everyone was mad at Comrie, rather than Lowe, and decided that's a much better strategy than when he dealt Weight and Guerin and people were generally just upset...

I'd prefer to see players over-valued and held than sold off at a discount. A good GM will build value before he makes a deal. And probably make sure he's got a competitive market for his asset.


Tambellini could talk for 10 minutes straight without saying a thing, but not in a way that made you feel like he had something to say. It was more like listening to a BS politician and afterward trying to make sense of anything he just rambled on about. MacT would tell you WAY too much. Chia, when he spoke (which was rare) would also say WAY too much. What's wrong with giving the media and fans some tidbits, without going into specifics? I blame the Oilers PR people. They should be on top of the messages being conveyed. The next GM should be able to speak intelligently and cooperate with the media, but also know where the line is with regards to specific players or strategies. This quality, however, is way down the list of priorities to look for in a GM.



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 Re: The New GM Search [message #732645 is a reply to message #732643 ]
Fri, 08 March 2019 15:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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jds308 wrote on Fri, 08 March 2019 14:37


Tambellini could talk for 10 minutes straight without saying a thing, but not in a way that made you feel like he had something to say. It was more like listening to a BS politician and afterward trying to make sense of anything he just rambled on about. MacT would tell you WAY too much. Chia, when he spoke (which was rare) would also say WAY too much. What's wrong with giving the media and fans some tidbits, without going into specifics? I blame the Oilers PR people. They should be on top of the messages being conveyed. The next GM should be able to speak intelligently and cooperate with the media, but also know where the line is with regards to specific players or strategies. This quality, however, is way down the list of priorities to look for in a GM.



I just hate the media and this belief that there's a real value to me the fan in hearing the thoughts of the coach and GM and players... Sure, it can be interesting, but if it's interesting it's probably bad for me as a fan because it's probably too much info.

Spector was whining and crying about Tortorella's short conference after they lost to the Oilers. Torts came out, said it wasn't a good game, and he wasn't going to get in to dissecting it, the team was just moving on from it. I think that's probably a really good strategy, for a terrible game, especially with the Edmonton media there, who would likely ask idiotic questions about whether he was happy with specific players. As a coach, I would NEVER answer those, and I'd pour sarcasm all over my responses to any of those questions until I'd trained those guys not to bother asking the question.

There's just so little to be gained from saying anything of value to the media. Your best GM isn't a good interview. He's basically saying the same things most of the time:

"You know, we're pretty happy with the group we have here. Of course, we're always looking to improve our team, but I don't think there's any moves imminent."

"I won't go in to any specifics on any players, or any contract negotiations. Next question."

"No, that rumour is completely untrue." (even if it's dead on accurate)

Yes, if your team sucks, you are going to get beaten on by the media horde about saying you're happy with your team, and moves aren't imminent, but it's better than the alternative. I'd rather have them mad at me in the talk shows than lose a trade because I've set myself up for it.

The only time I would say anything newsworthy is if the team needs me to get in front of something to deflect the heat. If a player is getting booed by the home team crowd, I'm ripping the fans. If a media guy writes a hatchet piece, I am suggesting to everyone that that guy is an embarrassment and doesn't know what he's talking about.

I'm fine with having a combative relationship with the media. So long as my team wins, I don't think anyone cares.

Worth noting, the GM who was the least close with the media was Glen Sather, who constantly gave disinformation and on more than one occasion threatened to run media guys (including Spector) out of town. He also happened to be the winningest...coincidence? I think not.



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 Re: The New GM Search [message #732769 is a reply to message #732519 ]
Mon, 11 March 2019 15:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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This is a pretty sound thought experiment:


Christian Pagnani @chrispagnani
Would Keith Gretzky be a top candidate for any other general manager position in the NHL?



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: The New GM Search [message #732771 is a reply to message #732769 ]
Mon, 11 March 2019 15:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Kr55 wrote on Mon, 11 March 2019 15:25

This is a pretty sound thought experiment:


Christian Pagnani @chrispagnani
Would Keith Gretzky be a top candidate for any other general manager position in the NHL?



So many good questions:

- Given how many bad decisions have been made by the Oilers over the last several years, including this year - does it make sense to believe that the best candidate for the GM position is an internal one?

- What's the likelihood that the best candidate for the Oilers vacant GM position happens to be the brother of the vice-chair of the same organization who also happens to have hired him for his first job in the NHL?

Of course, then there are also the questions arising from the approach to this, both for Nicholson and the Oilers media who keep helping Stump for Keith:

- Why the hell would anyone look to other team's GMs for validation of candidates for your GM position? Or believe that what they did say on the matter had anything to do with what was best for the Oilers and not for them?

- For that matter, was the decision to keep Chiarelli last spring motivated by similar conversations Nicholson had with other GMs? Remember, he did talk about just how well-liked Chia was...maybe he asked other GMs their thoughts on whether to stay the course?

- Why do the smartest guys in the room continually act so dumb?



"This team needs an enema!"
#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan #FireBobbyNicks and...SIGH...#FireTheGretzkys

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 Re: The New GM Search [message #732843 is a reply to message #732771 ]
Tue, 12 March 2019 08:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Mon, 11 March 2019 15:47

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 11 March 2019 15:25

This is a pretty sound thought experiment:


Christian Pagnani @chrispagnani
Would Keith Gretzky be a top candidate for any other general manager position in the NHL?



So many good questions:

- Given how many bad decisions have been made by the Oilers over the last several years, including this year - does it make sense to believe that the best candidate for the GM position is an internal one?

- What's the likelihood that the best candidate for the Oilers vacant GM position happens to be the brother of the vice-chair of the same organization who also happens to have hired him for his first job in the NHL?

Of course, then there are also the questions arising from the approach to this, both for Nicholson and the Oilers media who keep helping Stump for Keith:

- Why the hell would anyone look to other team's GMs for validation of candidates for your GM position? Or believe that what they did say on the matter had anything to do with what was best for the Oilers and not for them?

- For that matter, was the decision to keep Chiarelli last spring motivated by similar conversations Nicholson had with other GMs? Remember, he did talk about just how well-liked Chia was...maybe he asked other GMs their thoughts on whether to stay the course?

- Why do the smartest guys in the room continually act so dumb?

I am not sure what you do for a living Adam but part of my many duties at my company is I dabble in HR and have done it for many years. Now I didn't go to school for HR, I just have been with the company a very long time, I am a friendly guy and I can talk to people so the position was just given to me. We are a small company so it's not like the HR position is a big role.

Now part of my role as the HR person is that I have is too occasionally place job ads, review and evaluate resumes and make recommendations for who to interview. As part of my review of these resumes, I do what is called a reference check. What that is, is you call up people in your industry, lots of times people you don't even really know then personally all that well, lots of times these people might even be considered a rival of you. So you call up these people and you ask them questions and ask for their opinion on a person. What did they do, how were they to deal with, their resume says this, what was their actual role and what did they actually do that for you in that particular instance. This will come as a surprise I am sure but when a person writes up their resume, lots of people aren't entirely true. Do they come out and tell a blatant lie? Well no but do they maybe pump up the good and down play the bad? Yes. When a person on their resume says "prepared contract documents" what does that mean? Did they write up the contract, put together all the quantities, do all the checks and write up all the special clauses or did they do a bunch of photocopying? Technically speaking, if all you did was photocopy and put the document together in order, you did "prepare a contract document" but there is a big difference between photocopying vs actually putting all the information together.

So when it comes to Nicholson talking to other hockey people about GM candidates, I do not understand all the hate he is getting for doing references checks on guys. Asking others what a guy is like to deal, asking others in the industry their opinions on a guy and their capabilities is what I view as doing your due diligence. The last thing I want them to do is go Chia again. Don't do any checks, don't talk to anyone, just look at his resume say "Wow, he looks good" and just give him the job.



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 Re: The New GM Search [message #732845 is a reply to message #732843 ]
Tue, 12 March 2019 08:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 12 March 2019 08:36

Adam wrote on Mon, 11 March 2019 15:47

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 11 March 2019 15:25

This is a pretty sound thought experiment:


Christian Pagnani @chrispagnani
Would Keith Gretzky be a top candidate for any other general manager position in the NHL?



So many good questions:

- Given how many bad decisions have been made by the Oilers over the last several years, including this year - does it make sense to believe that the best candidate for the GM position is an internal one?

- What's the likelihood that the best candidate for the Oilers vacant GM position happens to be the brother of the vice-chair of the same organization who also happens to have hired him for his first job in the NHL?

Of course, then there are also the questions arising from the approach to this, both for Nicholson and the Oilers media who keep helping Stump for Keith:

- Why the hell would anyone look to other team's GMs for validation of candidates for your GM position? Or believe that what they did say on the matter had anything to do with what was best for the Oilers and not for them?

- For that matter, was the decision to keep Chiarelli last spring motivated by similar conversations Nicholson had with other GMs? Remember, he did talk about just how well-liked Chia was...maybe he asked other GMs their thoughts on whether to stay the course?

- Why do the smartest guys in the room continually act so dumb?

I am not sure what you do for a living Adam but part of my many duties at my company is I dabble in HR and have done it for many years. Now I didn't go to school for HR, I just have been with the company a very long time, I am a friendly guy and I can talk to people so the position was just given to me. We are a small company so it's not like the HR position is a big role.

Now part of my role as the HR person is that I have is too occasionally place job ads, review and evaluate resumes and make recommendations for who to interview. As part of my review of these resumes, I do what is called a reference check. What that is, is you call up people in your industry, lots of times people you don't even really know then personally all that well, lots of times these people might even be considered a rival of you. So you call up these people and you ask them questions and ask for their opinion on a person. What did they do, how were they to deal with, their resume says this, what was their actual role and what did they actually do that for you in that particular instance. This will come as a surprise I am sure but when a person writes up their resume, lots of people aren't entirely true. Do they come out and tell a blatant lie? Well no but do they maybe pump up the good and down play the bad? Yes. When a person on their resume says "prepared contract documents" what does that mean? Did they write up the contract, put together all the quantities, do all the checks and write up all the special clauses or did they do a bunch of photocopying? Technically speaking, if all you did was photocopy and put the document together in order, you did "prepare a contract document" but there is a big difference between photocopying vs actually putting all the information together.

So when it comes to Nicholson talking to other hockey people about GM candidates, I do not understand all the hate he is getting for doing references checks on guys. Asking others what a guy is like to deal, asking others in the industry their opinions on a guy and their capabilities is what I view as doing your due diligence. The last thing I want them to do is go Chia again. Don't do any checks, don't talk to anyone, just look at his resume say "Wow, he looks good" and just give him the job.


When you're posting an ad for a new position, do you call up your competitors and ask them what you should be looking for in a candidate?



"This team needs an enema!"
#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan #FireBobbyNicks and...SIGH...#FireTheGretzkys

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 Re: The New GM Search [message #732851 is a reply to message #732845 ]
Tue, 12 March 2019 09:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Tue, 12 March 2019 08:38

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 12 March 2019 08:36

Adam wrote on Mon, 11 March 2019 15:47

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 11 March 2019 15:25

This is a pretty sound thought experiment:


Christian Pagnani @chrispagnani
Would Keith Gretzky be a top candidate for any other general manager position in the NHL?



So many good questions:

- Given how many bad decisions have been made by the Oilers over the last several years, including this year - does it make sense to believe that the best candidate for the GM position is an internal one?

- What's the likelihood that the best candidate for the Oilers vacant GM position happens to be the brother of the vice-chair of the same organization who also happens to have hired him for his first job in the NHL?

Of course, then there are also the questions arising from the approach to this, both for Nicholson and the Oilers media who keep helping Stump for Keith:

- Why the hell would anyone look to other team's GMs for validation of candidates for your GM position? Or believe that what they did say on the matter had anything to do with what was best for the Oilers and not for them?

- For that matter, was the decision to keep Chiarelli last spring motivated by similar conversations Nicholson had with other GMs? Remember, he did talk about just how well-liked Chia was...maybe he asked other GMs their thoughts on whether to stay the course?

- Why do the smartest guys in the room continually act so dumb?

I am not sure what you do for a living Adam but part of my many duties at my company is I dabble in HR and have done it for many years. Now I didn't go to school for HR, I just have been with the company a very long time, I am a friendly guy and I can talk to people so the position was just given to me. We are a small company so it's not like the HR position is a big role.

Now part of my role as the HR person is that I have is too occasionally place job ads, review and evaluate resumes and make recommendations for who to interview. As part of my review of these resumes, I do what is called a reference check. What that is, is you call up people in your industry, lots of times people you don't even really know then personally all that well, lots of times these people might even be considered a rival of you. So you call up these people and you ask them questions and ask for their opinion on a person. What did they do, how were they to deal with, their resume says this, what was their actual role and what did they actually do that for you in that particular instance. This will come as a surprise I am sure but when a person writes up their resume, lots of people aren't entirely true. Do they come out and tell a blatant lie? Well no but do they maybe pump up the good and down play the bad? Yes. When a person on their resume says "prepared contract documents" what does that mean? Did they write up the contract, put together all the quantities, do all the checks and write up all the special clauses or did they do a bunch of photocopying? Technically speaking, if all you did was photocopy and put the document together in order, you did "prepare a contract document" but there is a big difference between photocopying vs actually putting all the information together.

So when it comes to Nicholson talking to other hockey people about GM candidates, I do not understand all the hate he is getting for doing references checks on guys. Asking others what a guy is like to deal, asking others in the industry their opinions on a guy and their capabilities is what I view as doing your due diligence. The last thing I want them to do is go Chia again. Don't do any checks, don't talk to anyone, just look at his resume say "Wow, he looks good" and just give him the job.


When you're posting an ad for a new position, do you call up your competitors and ask them what you should be looking for in a candidate?

Do you work for the Oilers or are Nicholson's right hand man that you know for a fact he's literally asking them what to look for?

Like come on man. I get you are pissed and have no faith in the Oilers. I am pretty pissed off myself and they have burned up pretty much all of my faith but I don't buy this notion that the Oilers and more specifically Nicholson is basically wandering around North American clueless to all that is hockey calling up anyone who will take his call and asking them "What would you do because I don't know, please help me." Give me a break.

To answer your question. I have had people many times call me up for a reference to a person, describe the job this person is trying to get and ask me specifically, do I think that person is capable of doing it and I have given my honest opinion give my dealings with that person.

What I find sad is. Nicholson is going out, actually taking his time, actually doing research, actually gathering intell on people, actually doing reference checks, not just going off the recommendations of the "old boys club" like people HATE and making a list of people who based on the information he gathers seem qualified for the job. So doing ALL the stuff he should have done instead of just deciding it was going to be Chia and not letting him leave until they had a contract. And people are crushing him for it, calling it a joke and a sign of incompetence. I would be willing to bet money, that those SAME people would be be crushing him if he didn't do that. If all he did was gather himself, Mac T and who ever else people lumped into the Old boys club, sit in a room and decide who interview, people would crucify him. ]

I have no clue if they will hire the right guy and given who is doing the hiring, Nicholson, I have my concerns but at least they are seemingly going above and beyond in the information and fact finding when it comes to the GM's job so hopefully there is a chance they get it right.



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 Re: The New GM Search [message #732857 is a reply to message #732851 ]
Tue, 12 March 2019 09:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Location: Edmonton, AB

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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 12 March 2019 09:08

Adam wrote on Tue, 12 March 2019 08:38

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 12 March 2019 08:36

Adam wrote on Mon, 11 March 2019 15:47

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 11 March 2019 15:25

This is a pretty sound thought experiment:


Christian Pagnani @chrispagnani
Would Keith Gretzky be a top candidate for any other general manager position in the NHL?



So many good questions:

- Given how many bad decisions have been made by the Oilers over the last several years, including this year - does it make sense to believe that the best candidate for the GM position is an internal one?

- What's the likelihood that the best candidate for the Oilers vacant GM position happens to be the brother of the vice-chair of the same organization who also happens to have hired him for his first job in the NHL?

Of course, then there are also the questions arising from the approach to this, both for Nicholson and the Oilers media who keep helping Stump for Keith:

- Why the hell would anyone look to other team's GMs for validation of candidates for your GM position? Or believe that what they did say on the matter had anything to do with what was best for the Oilers and not for them?

- For that matter, was the decision to keep Chiarelli last spring motivated by similar conversations Nicholson had with other GMs? Remember, he did talk about just how well-liked Chia was...maybe he asked other GMs their thoughts on whether to stay the course?

- Why do the smartest guys in the room continually act so dumb?

I am not sure what you do for a living Adam but part of my many duties at my company is I dabble in HR and have done it for many years. Now I didn't go to school for HR, I just have been with the company a very long time, I am a friendly guy and I can talk to people so the position was just given to me. We are a small company so it's not like the HR position is a big role.

Now part of my role as the HR person is that I have is too occasionally place job ads, review and evaluate resumes and make recommendations for who to interview. As part of my review of these resumes, I do what is called a reference check. What that is, is you call up people in your industry, lots of times people you don't even really know then personally all that well, lots of times these people might even be considered a rival of you. So you call up these people and you ask them questions and ask for their opinion on a person. What did they do, how were they to deal with, their resume says this, what was their actual role and what did they actually do that for you in that particular instance. This will come as a surprise I am sure but when a person writes up their resume, lots of people aren't entirely true. Do they come out and tell a blatant lie? Well no but do they maybe pump up the good and down play the bad? Yes. When a person on their resume says "prepared contract documents" what does that mean? Did they write up the contract, put together all the quantities, do all the checks and write up all the special clauses or did they do a bunch of photocopying? Technically speaking, if all you did was photocopy and put the document together in order, you did "prepare a contract document" but there is a big difference between photocopying vs actually putting all the information together.

So when it comes to Nicholson talking to other hockey people about GM candidates, I do not understand all the hate he is getting for doing references checks on guys. Asking others what a guy is like to deal, asking others in the industry their opinions on a guy and their capabilities is what I view as doing your due diligence. The last thing I want them to do is go Chia again. Don't do any checks, don't talk to anyone, just look at his resume say "Wow, he looks good" and just give him the job.


When you're posting an ad for a new position, do you call up your competitors and ask them what you should be looking for in a candidate?

Do you work for the Oilers or are Nicholson's right hand man that you know for a fact he's literally asking them what to look for?

Like come on man. I get you are pissed and have no faith in the Oilers. I am pretty pissed off myself and they have burned up pretty much all of my faith but I don't buy this notion that the Oilers and more specifically Nicholson is basically wandering around North American clueless to all that is hockey calling up anyone who will take his call and asking them "What would you do because I don't know, please help me." Give me a break.

To answer your question. I have had people many times call me up for a reference to a person, describe the job this person is trying to get and ask me specifically, do I think that person is capable of doing it and I have given my honest opinion give my dealings with that person.

What I find sad is. Nicholson is going out, actually taking his time, actually doing research, actually gathering intell on people, actually doing reference checks, not just going off the recommendations of the "old boys club" like people HATE and making a list of people who based on the information he gathers seem qualified for the job. So doing ALL the stuff he should have done instead of just deciding it was going to be Chia and not letting him leave until they had a contract. And people are crushing him for it, calling it a joke and a sign of incompetence. I would be willing to bet money, that those SAME people would be be crushing him if he didn't do that. If all he did was gather himself, Mac T and who ever else people lumped into the Old boys club, sit in a room and decide who interview, people would crucify him. ]

I have no clue if they will hire the right guy and given who is doing the hiring, Nicholson, I have my concerns but at least they are seemingly going above and beyond in the information and fact finding when it comes to the GM's job so hopefully there is a chance they get it right.


He literally said that he was asking other teams for their thoughts as to what he should be looking for in a GM. Said that he had learned there were a few different types of GM, and was trying to decide what kind the Oilers really needed.

This is from an Edmonton Journal article:

Quote:

Nicholson said he’s started a “deep” process, talking to many general managers and hockey people around the NHL about the different types of GMs and what type of person is best for the Edmonton Oilers and this particular market.

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey /its-a-mistake-as-i-sit-here-today-bob-nicholson-says-of-pro cess-of-hiring-peter-chiarelli

The direct quote came in a couple of interviews in early Feb. He literally said he's asking his competitors what he should be looking for. I get that you try to be positive about Oilers management, and maybe that helps keep you sane, but this process should be particularly embarrassing for the Oilers, and should have convinced anyone who wasn't sure yet, that Nicholson is a disaster in that position and totally incompetent. He's asking other people about what criteria he should be looking for and for advice on who he should think about for candidates. He's asking other GMs what they think of his Interim GM and the job he did at the trade deadline. He's admitting that he didn't really have any process at all with his previous hires and that the team has done only a SINGLE interview for GM jobs in the last 20 years...despite having had four GMs in that time. Remember, this is the same guy who just 10 months ago was talking about how he really believed in Chiarelli's non-existent plan, and that other GMs REALLY like Peter and that's just so important...

If you want to stick your head in the sand, that's fine...but don't pretend there's anything normal about the process that the Oilers are running here.

And I could probably stomach the embarrassment if I thought it would result in the right hire - but I imagine other GMs are going to stress the importance of "likability" and "fitting in with your group there" and we're going to get Keith Gretzky or Glen Gretzky or Brent Gretzky as our next GM.

[Updated on: Tue, 12 March 2019 09:53]


"This team needs an enema!"
#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan #FireBobbyNicks and...SIGH...#FireTheGretzkys

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 Re: The New GM Search [message #732860 is a reply to message #732857 ]
Tue, 12 March 2019 10:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 3977
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Adam wrote on Tue, 12 March 2019 09:52

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 12 March 2019 09:08

Adam wrote on Tue, 12 March 2019 08:38

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 12 March 2019 08:36

Adam wrote on Mon, 11 March 2019 15:47

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 11 March 2019 15:25

This is a pretty sound thought experiment:


Christian Pagnani @chrispagnani
Would Keith Gretzky be a top candidate for any other general manager position in the NHL?



So many good questions:

- Given how many bad decisions have been made by the Oilers over the last several years, including this year - does it make sense to believe that the best candidate for the GM position is an internal one?

- What's the likelihood that the best candidate for the Oilers vacant GM position happens to be the brother of the vice-chair of the same organization who also happens to have hired him for his first job in the NHL?

Of course, then there are also the questions arising from the approach to this, both for Nicholson and the Oilers media who keep helping Stump for Keith:

- Why the hell would anyone look to other team's GMs for validation of candidates for your GM position? Or believe that what they did say on the matter had anything to do with what was best for the Oilers and not for them?

- For that matter, was the decision to keep Chiarelli last spring motivated by similar conversations Nicholson had with other GMs? Remember, he did talk about just how well-liked Chia was...maybe he asked other GMs their thoughts on whether to stay the course?

- Why do the smartest guys in the room continually act so dumb?

I am not sure what you do for a living Adam but part of my many duties at my company is I dabble in HR and have done it for many years. Now I didn't go to school for HR, I just have been with the company a very long time, I am a friendly guy and I can talk to people so the position was just given to me. We are a small company so it's not like the HR position is a big role.

Now part of my role as the HR person is that I have is too occasionally place job ads, review and evaluate resumes and make recommendations for who to interview. As part of my review of these resumes, I do what is called a reference check. What that is, is you call up people in your industry, lots of times people you don't even really know then personally all that well, lots of times these people might even be considered a rival of you. So you call up these people and you ask them questions and ask for their opinion on a person. What did they do, how were they to deal with, their resume says this, what was their actual role and what did they actually do that for you in that particular instance. This will come as a surprise I am sure but when a person writes up their resume, lots of people aren't entirely true. Do they come out and tell a blatant lie? Well no but do they maybe pump up the good and down play the bad? Yes. When a person on their resume says "prepared contract documents" what does that mean? Did they write up the contract, put together all the quantities, do all the checks and write up all the special clauses or did they do a bunch of photocopying? Technically speaking, if all you did was photocopy and put the document together in order, you did "prepare a contract document" but there is a big difference between photocopying vs actually putting all the information together.

So when it comes to Nicholson talking to other hockey people about GM candidates, I do not understand all the hate he is getting for doing references checks on guys. Asking others what a guy is like to deal, asking others in the industry their opinions on a guy and their capabilities is what I view as doing your due diligence. The last thing I want them to do is go Chia again. Don't do any checks, don't talk to anyone, just look at his resume say "Wow, he looks good" and just give him the job.


When you're posting an ad for a new position, do you call up your competitors and ask them what you should be looking for in a candidate?

Do you work for the Oilers or are Nicholson's right hand man that you know for a fact he's literally asking them what to look for?

Like come on man. I get you are pissed and have no faith in the Oilers. I am pretty pissed off myself and they have burned up pretty much all of my faith but I don't buy this notion that the Oilers and more specifically Nicholson is basically wandering around North American clueless to all that is hockey calling up anyone who will take his call and asking them "What would you do because I don't know, please help me." Give me a break.

To answer your question. I have had people many times call me up for a reference to a person, describe the job this person is trying to get and ask me specifically, do I think that person is capable of doing it and I have given my honest opinion give my dealings with that person.

What I find sad is. Nicholson is going out, actually taking his time, actually doing research, actually gathering intell on people, actually doing reference checks, not just going off the recommendations of the "old boys club" like people HATE and making a list of people who based on the information he gathers seem qualified for the job. So doing ALL the stuff he should have done instead of just deciding it was going to be Chia and not letting him leave until they had a contract. And people are crushing him for it, calling it a joke and a sign of incompetence. I would be willing to bet money, that those SAME people would be be crushing him if he didn't do that. If all he did was gather himself, Mac T and who ever else people lumped into the Old boys club, sit in a room and decide who interview, people would crucify him. ]

I have no clue if they will hire the right guy and given who is doing the hiring, Nicholson, I have my concerns but at least they are seemingly going above and beyond in the information and fact finding when it comes to the GM's job so hopefully there is a chance they get it right.


He literally said that he was asking other teams for their thoughts as to what he should be looking for in a GM. Said that he had learned there were a few different types of GM, and was trying to decide what kind the Oilers really needed.

This is from an Edmonton Journal article:

Quote:

Nicholson said he’s started a “deep” process, talking to many general managers and hockey people around the NHL about the different types of GMs and what type of person is best for the Edmonton Oilers and this particular market.

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey /its-a-mistake-as-i-sit-here-today-bob-nicholson-says-of-pro cess-of-hiring-peter-chiarelli

The direct quote came in a couple of interviews in early Feb. He literally said he's asking his competitors what he should be looking for. I get that you try to be positive about Oilers management, and maybe that helps keep you sane, but this process should be particularly embarrassing for the Oilers, and should have convinced anyone who wasn't sure yet, that Nicholson is a disaster in that position and totally incompetent. He's asking other people about what criteria he should be looking for and for advice on who he should think about for candidates. He's asking other GMs what they think of his Interim GM and the job he did at the trade deadline. He's admitting that he didn't really have any process at all with his previous hires and that the team has done only a SINGLE interview for GM jobs in the last 20 years...despite having had four GMs in that time. Remember, this is the same guy who just 10 months ago was talking about how he really believed in Chiarelli's non-existent plan, and that other GMs REALLY like Peter and that's just so important...

If you want to stick your head in the sand, that's fine...but don't pretend there's anything normal about the process that the Oilers are running here.

And I could probably stomach the embarrassment if I thought it would result in the right hire - but I imagine other GMs are going to stress the importance of "likability" and "fitting in with your group there" and we're going to get Keith Gretzky or Glen Gretzky or Brent Gretzky as our next GM.

I want the Oilers to get this right. So if they have to ask 500 people to get this right, then ask 500 people. I honestly don't give a crap what questions they ask, just get it freaking right. If they have to ask people "who should I interview" and it ends up getting them the right candidate. WHO CARES! Get it right.

I am actually starting to wonder if there is a segment of Oilers fans who actually want the Oilers to get better. Since the Oilers have been bad for so long, I am starting to think there is a segment of Oilers fans who are so used to bad, the chance of good scares them a bit so they lash out. They screwed up BIG TIME with the CHia hire. They saw him, didn't bother too look for anyone else, didn't bother to interview anyone, didn't do any checks, they just decided he was the guy. And he screwed this team up because of it. So people are pissed at the Oilers and they should be. The Chia hiring was STUPID and hurt this team big time. Much to my surprise, they went unOiler and actually admitted they screwed up with Chia. They didn't dance around it, they actually said the words. We screwed up. So they are doing the opposite. They are actually going out and instead of just appointing someone immediately, they are looking. Asking questions and opinions, finding out about people.

So for me and it surprises me a bit how most fans aren't like me. I don't give a crap how long it takes, who they talk to, what questions they ask, what information they gather, what the guys name is or how they come up with the decision on who to hire. Just get it right. Am I 100% confident they will get it right? Not a chance in hell. I hope they do.

Adam you have me curious. What would be an acceptable process to find the next GM for you? I know what your first response will be. "Have Nicholson fired and him not doing it." Well like it or not, that's not going to happen. So what is acceptable to you?

- I assume you don't want the Oilers to go Chia again and just appoint someone who is an "outsider".
- I assume you don't want the Oilers to appoint someone from within.
- I assume you don't want the Oilers to give the job to anyone that has any ties to any current Oilers employee, past player or someone you deem in the "old boys club".
- Now it appears you don't like how the CEO is going out and asking everyone who will take his call their opinions, ideas, questions, whatever the hell Nicholson asks.
- I assume as soon as they come up with a short list and start interviewing, you shred the list.

So what would be an acceptable way to hire a GM?

[Updated on: Tue, 12 March 2019 10:26]


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 Re: The New GM Search [message #732883 is a reply to message #732860 ]
Tue, 12 March 2019 14:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 12 March 2019 10:25


I want the Oilers to get this right. So if they have to ask 500 people to get this right, then ask 500 people. I honestly don't give a crap what questions they ask, just get it freaking right. If they have to ask people "who should I interview" and it ends up getting them the right candidate. WHO CARES! Get it right.

I am actually starting to wonder if there is a segment of Oilers fans who actually want the Oilers to get better. Since the Oilers have been bad for so long, I am starting to think there is a segment of Oilers fans who are so used to bad, the chance of good scares them a bit so they lash out. They screwed up BIG TIME with the CHia hire. They saw him, didn't bother too look for anyone else, didn't bother to interview anyone, didn't do any checks, they just decided he was the guy. And he screwed this team up because of it. So people are pissed at the Oilers and they should be. The Chia hiring was STUPID and hurt this team big time. Much to my surprise, they went unOiler and actually admitted they screwed up with Chia. They didn't dance around it, they actually said the words. We screwed up. So they are doing the opposite. They are actually going out and instead of just appointing someone immediately, they are looking. Asking questions and opinions, finding out about people.

So for me and it surprises me a bit how most fans aren't like me. I don't give a crap how long it takes, who they talk to, what questions they ask, what information they gather, what the guys name is or how they come up with the decision on who to hire. Just get it right. Am I 100% confident they will get it right? Not a chance in hell. I hope they do.

Adam you have me curious. What would be an acceptable process to find the next GM for you? I know what your first response will be. "Have Nicholson fired and him not doing it." Well like it or not, that's not going to happen. So what is acceptable to you?

- I assume you don't want the Oilers to go Chia again and just appoint someone who is an "outsider".
- I assume you don't want the Oilers to appoint someone from within.
- I assume you don't want the Oilers to give the job to anyone that has any ties to any current Oilers employee, past player or someone you deem in the "old boys club".
- Now it appears you don't like how the CEO is going out and asking everyone who will take his call their opinions, ideas, questions, whatever the hell Nicholson asks.
- I assume as soon as they come up with a short list and start interviewing, you shred the list.

So what would be an acceptable way to hire a GM?


I think you conflate people's dislike of Oilers management with a dislike of the Oilers. None of us are here if we don't care about the Oilers. But it's like having a friend who's in a really bad relationship. You really want to see them cut ties and find someone who'll care for them the way they should be cared for.

That's the Oilers in a nutshell. They're being run by an incompetent cabal whose first concern is always self-preservation of their roles and influence. I don't think you can trust that this process is leading to the best possible candidate. I doubt it is. I think this is most likely a rubber stamp exercise so that the team can insert the guy they always wanted to be in that seat sometime this spring.

"Look - we looked really hard and asked lots of people what we should look for and lots of people, not the Old Boys Club at all, told us that they think Keith Gretzky is great. It's amazing how he was just two offices down from me all the time. I'd barely even considered him until I was talking to a few of the GMs down in Florida and one of them actually says, 'Have you guys thought about Gretzky?" and here I thought he was talking about Wayne initially, but he said 'no, no, Keith!" And then he tells me how they always respected his hockey knowledge and their owner talked about talking to him about a job at one point even, and they admired the courage to make three straight picks and just blow off conventional thinking and take Barzal, Chabot and Connor and instead got DeBrusk and those two other guys who's names I've forgotten. And I came back and talked about it with Wayne and Kevin and they just seemed really happy, so then I knew that I was on the right track."

What would I do and how would it differ?

I wouldn't talk about each step of my process in public for one. I'd simply say we're working on it and I'll tell you when I have news. That's it.

I would look at what has been the most effective in both hockey and other major sports in management. None of my conversations with competitors would revolve around asking them what they thought I should do, because it's irrelevant and I can't trust them to give good advice.

I would be prioritizing a few skillsets - negotiation ability being at the top of my list. After that, an ability to work with and seek out people with different skillsets. I am looking for the person who's going to tell me that they seek other opinions that differ from their own, and they'll look at every tool possible. You want someone who's a strong delegator, but who'll still maintain overall responsibility - not an easy thing to inject in to a group that is so used to pointing fingers at everyone else.

I would interview a slate of potential candidates - with no updates publicly about those. Not the timing, not the people being interviewed, nothing. I might do some of those interviews remotely, or choose a place where there'd be no scrutiny on who is flying in and out of town. It doesn't really benefit anyone to have the information on who I'm talking to out there. I'm asking each of those people to provide me with a plan to make this team successful - and pressing them on how they're going to be able to accomplish their plan.

Most of my candidates are going to be people that didn't play in the NHL. I want guys with a high level of education, who understand numbers, contracts and negotiations. If you have GED and 15 years playing hockey, that's not an impressive resume when you're sitting across the table negotiating a contract with a lawyer-turned-agent who has been given all the comps he'll ever need by the Player's Association. Ideally the person has a great personality and can relate well and communicate well with others, so I don't really care if he doesn't know most people at the GM retreat. He'll build those bridges. Trades aren't actually made because GMs are friends, they're made because both sides want something from the other side. Understanding that, I care a lot less about whether they're someone the other GMs in the league feel really comfortable with.

I'd also actively be removing the roadblocks to that person's success though - insulating that person from the toxic contributions from 1980s Oilers and their buddies. That would probably get me fired, of course, and then the Oilers would be right back to square one.



"This team needs an enema!"
#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan #FireBobbyNicks and...SIGH...#FireTheGretzkys

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 Re: The New GM Search [message #732876 is a reply to message #732857 ]
Tue, 12 March 2019 13:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jay  is currently offline Jay
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Adam wrote on Tue, 12 March 2019 09:52



Quote:

Nicholson said he’s started a “deep” process, talking to many general managers and hockey people around the NHL about the different types of GMs and what type of person is best for the Edmonton Oilers and this particular market.



Mmmm "hockey people"..

I bet I can guess which hockey people burgers is relying on for this one!

There are a few walking embodiments of the Dunning-Kruger effect down the hall who probably don't need to be asked twice for their $0.02!



"Initiative comes to thems that wait"

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 Re: The New GM Search [message #732879 is a reply to message #732876 ]
Tue, 12 March 2019 13:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm  is currently offline Oscargasm
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Jay wrote on Tue, 12 March 2019 13:21

Adam wrote on Tue, 12 March 2019 09:52



Quote:

Nicholson said he’s started a “deep” process, talking to many general managers and hockey people around the NHL about the different types of GMs and what type of person is best for the Edmonton Oilers and this particular market.



Mmmm "hockey people"..

I bet I can guess which hockey people burgers is relying on for this one!

There are a few walking embodiments of the Dunning-Kruger effect down the hall who probably don't need to be asked twice for their $0.02!


Perhaps you’re eluding to a recent inductee to the Alberta Hockey Hall of Fame?



Survivor 52 CHAMP

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 Re: The New GM Search [message #732894 is a reply to message #732857 ]
Tue, 12 March 2019 15:23 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
g2k  is currently offline g2k
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Just give up Adam. Save your finger tips. He's not reading your replies.

He just uses it as a reason to ramble on..



#firebob

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