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 Auston Matthew’s Extension - 5yr @ 11.634AAV [message #729608]
Tue, 05 February 2019 11:41 Go to next message
Oscargasm  is currently offline Oscargasm
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https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/maple-leafs-sign-auston- matthews-five-year-contract-extension/

93% paid in signing bonuses... interested to see what they pay Marner now.

Add: From Bobby Mac;
Auston Matthews year by year breakdown:

Year 1: $15.2M SB, $700K salary.

Year 2: $15.2M SB, $700K salary.

Year 3: $9.7M SB, $750K salary.

Year 4: $7.2M SB, $750K salary.

Year 5: $7.2M SB, $750K salary.

That’s $54.5M in SB, $3.65M in salary.

[Updated on: Tue, 05 February 2019 11:45]


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 Re: Auston Matthew’s Extension - 5yr @ 11.634AAV [message #729610 is a reply to message #729608 ]
Tue, 05 February 2019 11:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Oscargasm wrote on Tue, 05 February 2019 11:41

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/maple-leafs-sign-auston- matthews-five-year-contract-extension/

93% paid in signing bonuses... interested to see what they pay Marner now.


Dang, that's rich for only 1 UFA year. Give Marner the same? Marner has been a better performer than Matthews since last playoffs.



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 Re: Auston Matthew’s Extension - 5yr @ 11.634AAV [message #729611 is a reply to message #729610 ]
Tue, 05 February 2019 11:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 05 February 2019 12:42

Oscargasm wrote on Tue, 05 February 2019 11:41

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/maple-leafs-sign-auston- matthews-five-year-contract-extension/

93% paid in signing bonuses... interested to see what they pay Marner now.


Dang, that's rich for only 1 UFA year. Give Marner the same? Marner has been a better performer than Matthews since last playoffs.


But but but winger! Sets up the Leafs to have Matthews and Tavares as a 1-2 for the next 6 years.

Good thing they have a shoddy management group and are in such a terrible hockey market that they won’t be able to attract suitable wingers............................



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 Re: Auston Matthew’s Extension - 5yr @ 11.634AAV [message #729613 is a reply to message #729610 ]
Tue, 05 February 2019 11:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 05 February 2019 10:42

Oscargasm wrote on Tue, 05 February 2019 11:41

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/maple-leafs-sign-auston- matthews-five-year-contract-extension/

93% paid in signing bonuses... interested to see what they pay Marner now.


Dang, that's rich for only 1 UFA year. Give Marner the same? Marner has been a better performer than Matthews since last playoffs.


Bold prediction: Marner signs for less than Drai.



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 Re: Auston Matthew’s Extension - 5yr @ 11.634AAV [message #729615 is a reply to message #729613 ]
Tue, 05 February 2019 11:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Goose wrote on Tue, 05 February 2019 11:53

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 05 February 2019 10:42

Oscargasm wrote on Tue, 05 February 2019 11:41

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/maple-leafs-sign-auston- matthews-five-year-contract-extension/

93% paid in signing bonuses... interested to see what they pay Marner now.


Dang, that's rich for only 1 UFA year. Give Marner the same? Marner has been a better performer than Matthews since last playoffs.


Bold prediction: Marner signs for less than Drai.

Not a chance.



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 Re: Auston Matthew’s Extension - 5yr @ 11.634AAV [message #729617 is a reply to message #729613 ]
Tue, 05 February 2019 11:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm  is currently offline Oscargasm
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Goose wrote on Tue, 05 February 2019 12:53

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 05 February 2019 10:42

Oscargasm wrote on Tue, 05 February 2019 11:41

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/maple-leafs-sign-auston- matthews-five-year-contract-extension/

93% paid in signing bonuses... interested to see what they pay Marner now.


Dang, that's rich for only 1 UFA year. Give Marner the same? Marner has been a better performer than Matthews since last playoffs.


Bold prediction: Marner signs for less than Drai.


They’ll have to sign him for less than Drai, but reports are he’ll be around 9! Tavares and Matthews taking over $22M a year from the cap. It’s insane. Don’t forget they also have to resign Kapanen after this season too, though he clearly won’t get close to the raise AM and MM are getting.

I mean, at least they’re competitive and very likely in the playoffs. But welcome to cap he|| Leafs.



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 Re: Auston Matthew’s Extension - 5yr @ 11.634AAV [message #729621 is a reply to message #729617 ]
Tue, 05 February 2019 12:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Nylander got a hair under 7 and no disrespect to Nylander, Marner is WAY better. Nylander is a good complimentary forward, Marner can drive a line. Matthews got 11.634 mill, he's not that much better than Marner. I give the edge to Matthews because he is a center so I could see 10 for Marner. I believe he and his agent knows he could get 10 from a lot of teams.


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 Re: Auston Matthew’s Extension - 5yr @ 11.634AAV [message #729622 is a reply to message #729621 ]
Tue, 05 February 2019 12:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 05 February 2019 13:02

Nylander got a hair under 7 and no disrespect to Nylander, Marner is WAY better. Nylander is a good complimentary forward, Marner can drive a line. Matthews got 11.634 mill, he's not that much better than Marner. I give the edge to Matthews because he is a center so I could see 10 for Marner. I believe he and his agent knows he could get 10 from a lot of teams.


1000% agree RD. I'd be shocked if he's much under 10, but I can see them doing a 4-6 year deal for a smaller number, around 9.



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 Re: Auston Matthew’s Extension - 5yr @ 11.634AAV [message #729624 is a reply to message #729621 ]
Tue, 05 February 2019 12:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 05 February 2019 11:02

I believe he and his agent knows he could get 10 from a lot of teams.


Sure, except he's got to wait 5 years for another team to sign him, unless he gets an offer sheet. I think it will be a shorter deal (5 years), in the $8M-$9M range.



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 Re: Auston Matthew’s Extension - 5yr @ 11.634AAV [message #729626 is a reply to message #729624 ]
Tue, 05 February 2019 12:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Goose wrote on Tue, 05 February 2019 13:12

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 05 February 2019 11:02

I believe he and his agent knows he could get 10 from a lot of teams.


Sure, except he's got to wait 5 years for another team to sign him, unless he gets an offer sheet. I think it will be a shorter deal (5 years), in the $8M-$9M range.


Not necessarily, he could get an offer sheet. But yeah, I'd say they will do a shorter deal for smaller hit, much like AM34



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 Re: Auston Matthew’s Extension - 5yr @ 11.634AAV [message #729631 is a reply to message #729626 ]
Tue, 05 February 2019 12:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Oscargasm wrote on Tue, 05 February 2019 13:14

Goose wrote on Tue, 05 February 2019 13:12

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 05 February 2019 11:02

I believe he and his agent knows he could get 10 from a lot of teams.


Sure, except he's got to wait 5 years for another team to sign him, unless he gets an offer sheet. I think it will be a shorter deal (5 years), in the $8M-$9M range.


Not necessarily, he could get an offer sheet. But yeah, I'd say they will do a shorter deal for smaller hit, much like AM34


Hmmm, Dubas should likely start clearing cap space now just in case



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 Re: Auston Matthew’s Extension - 5yr @ 11.634AAV [message #729629 is a reply to message #729624 ]
Tue, 05 February 2019 12:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Goose wrote on Tue, 05 February 2019 12:12

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 05 February 2019 11:02

I believe he and his agent knows he could get 10 from a lot of teams.


Sure, except he's got to wait 5 years for another team to sign him, unless he gets an offer sheet. I think it will be a shorter deal (5 years), in the $8M-$9M range.

I don't see how he takes that much less. Matthews signs for 11.634 on a 5 yr which people think is good. Apparently they kicked tires on a long term at 13+.

Matthews this season in 38 games has 23 goals, 46 pts. So that is 1.21 pts/game.

Marner this season in 52 games has 20 goals, 63 pts. So that is 1.21 pts/game.

So you think that Marner is going to take potentially 3 mill less when he scores at the same pace as Matthews?

You can go further and look at Eichel. Eichel signed last year for 10 a season. Other than being a different position, I don't think Marner is far off Eichel if at all. Yet you think he will get less than Eichel when he outscores him this year?

I just don't see it.

I can't believe there are people that think Leon is still overpaid. He might score 40 goals this year and get 100 pts.



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 Re: Auston Matthew’s Extension - 5yr @ 11.634AAV [message #729632 is a reply to message #729629 ]
Tue, 05 February 2019 12:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 05 February 2019 13:27



I can't believe there are people that think Leon is still overpaid. He might score 40 goals this year and get 100 pts.


Agreed.

That in mind I think the concern was more that at the time there was comparable and perhaps a better deal could have been had.

I think it is Adam but maybe others that often criticism will follow a player of Drai's style. He is the exact opposite of a guy like Yakopov.
Yak moved a million miles an hour with little efficiency, Drai looks like he isn't trying but his style is much more effective. Reminds be of Jumbo a little bit from time to time.



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 Re: Auston Matthew’s Extension - 5yr @ 11.634AAV [message #729634 is a reply to message #729632 ]
Tue, 05 February 2019 12:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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PlusOne wrote on Tue, 05 February 2019 13:50

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 05 February 2019 13:27



I can't believe there are people that think Leon is still overpaid. He might score 40 goals this year and get 100 pts.


Agreed.

That in mind I think the concern was more that at the time there was comparable and perhaps a better deal could have been had.

I think it is Adam but maybe others that often criticism will follow a player of Drai's style. He is the exact opposite of a guy like Yakopov.
Yak moved a million miles an hour with little efficiency, Drai looks like he isn't trying but his style is much more effective. Reminds be of Jumbo a little bit from time to time.


That’s a good comparison, Leon to Jumbo. Not all the time, and I mean he’s still rather young, but for sure has potential to be that mold.

Had he (Chiarelli) signed Leon BEFORE Connor, then you likely see a lower number for Leon. But who’s to say Leon’s camp didn’t want to see what McDavid got before signing their deal?



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 Re: Auston Matthew’s Extension - 5yr @ 11.634AAV [message #729641 is a reply to message #729634 ]
Tue, 05 February 2019 13:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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I'd be OK if Leon had a Thornton career. Thornton has 1453 pts and counting.

I keep going back to what Eichel got. A season after Leon signed he got 10. Leon makes 8.5 mill and while Eichel is a real good player, wouldn't trade Leon for Eichel because I think Leon is better.

[Updated on: Tue, 05 February 2019 13:49]


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 Re: Auston Matthew’s Extension - 5yr @ 11.634AAV [message #729642 is a reply to message #729641 ]
Tue, 05 February 2019 13:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 05 February 2019 14:47

I'd be OK if Leon had a Thornton career. Thornton has 1453 pts and counting.

I keep going back to what Eichel got. A season after Leon signed he got 10. Leon makes 8.5 mill and while Eichel is a real good player, wouldn't trade Leon for Eichel because I think Leon is better.


Absolutely would rather have Leon than Jack "Imma style my hair like Pat Mahomes" Eichel



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 Re: Auston Matthew’s Extension - 5yr @ 11.634AAV [message #729644 is a reply to message #729641 ]
Tue, 05 February 2019 14:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 05 February 2019 13:47

I'd be OK if Leon had a Thornton career. Thornton has 1453 pts and counting.

I keep going back to what Eichel got. A season after Leon signed he got 10. Leon makes 8.5 mill and while Eichel is a real good player, wouldn't trade Leon for Eichel because I think Leon is better.


Da hell is this? Eichel is better than Leon, hands down. I'd rather have Eichel than Matthews let alone Leon.



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 Re: Auston Matthew’s Extension - 5yr @ 11.634AAV [message #729645 is a reply to message #729644 ]
Tue, 05 February 2019 14:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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WhoreableGuy wrote on Tue, 05 February 2019 15:27

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 05 February 2019 13:47

I'd be OK if Leon had a Thornton career. Thornton has 1453 pts and counting.

I keep going back to what Eichel got. A season after Leon signed he got 10. Leon makes 8.5 mill and while Eichel is a real good player, wouldn't trade Leon for Eichel because I think Leon is better.


Da hell is this? Eichel is better than Leon, hands down. I'd rather have Eichel than Matthews let alone Leon.


I agree that I would rather have Eichel but it is close.
I think the Eichel VS McDavid manufactured rivalry coupled with loyalty to Oilers players is propping Drai up some.
I am not one that dislikes him, in fact he might be my favorite Oiler after McDavid but Eichel is elite and I think Drai is still a very good player or elite complementary player.



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 Re: Auston Matthew’s Extension - 5yr @ 11.634AAV [message #729647 is a reply to message #729644 ]
Tue, 05 February 2019 14:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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WhoreableGuy wrote on Tue, 05 February 2019 14:27

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 05 February 2019 13:47

I'd be OK if Leon had a Thornton career. Thornton has 1453 pts and counting.

I keep going back to what Eichel got. A season after Leon signed he got 10. Leon makes 8.5 mill and while Eichel is a real good player, wouldn't trade Leon for Eichel because I think Leon is better.


Da hell is this? Eichel is better than Leon, hands down. I'd rather have Eichel than Matthews let alone Leon.

Never said Eichel wasn't an excellent player. I just think Leon will outscore Eichel over their careers. I definitely do not think he is 1.5 mill per season better than Leon. Just my opinion.



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 Re: Auston Matthew’s Extension - 5yr @ 11.634AAV [message #729639 is a reply to message #729613 ]
Tue, 05 February 2019 13:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Goose wrote on Tue, 05 February 2019 11:53

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 05 February 2019 10:42

Oscargasm wrote on Tue, 05 February 2019 11:41

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/maple-leafs-sign-auston- matthews-five-year-contract-extension/

93% paid in signing bonuses... interested to see what they pay Marner now.


Dang, that's rich for only 1 UFA year. Give Marner the same? Marner has been a better performer than Matthews since last playoffs.


Bold prediction: Marner signs for less than Drai.


His agent is failing badly if that happens. I think his agent actually already commented and he knows he has a special player on his hands. He also commented on how Marner has already given the Leafs a discount by giving up the Schedule B bonus on his ELC, which may cost Marner 2M bucks this season.

Hope they stand their ground. Damn good right handed offensive RW/C. Outperformed Matthews last playoffs, and not just because of a heater like Drai over McDavid. He creates as much or more than Matthews. Matthews has the better shot for sure, but Marner does most everything else better.

[Updated on: Tue, 05 February 2019 13:37]


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 Re: Auston Matthew’s Extension - 5yr @ 11.634AAV [message #729628 is a reply to message #729608 ]
Tue, 05 February 2019 12:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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There is something in this contract for everyone. Those who love the Leafs love it. And those who hate the Leafs love it. Everyone loves this deal.


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 Re: Auston Matthew’s Extension - 5yr @ 11.634AAV [message #729648 is a reply to message #729608 ]
Tue, 05 February 2019 14:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Leafs only buy one UFA year of Matthews, then he is off to Arizona for $13M x 8.
Marner will get $10M.
They still have Marleau for another year at $6.25M, and they'll have to sign Sparks next year, plus get a similar replacement for Gradiner.

Likely trade Nylander, but at his price, and production, I wouldn't expect much in return.

[Updated on: Tue, 05 February 2019 14:59]


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 Re: Auston Matthew’s Extension - 5yr @ 11.634AAV [message #729657 is a reply to message #729648 ]
Tue, 05 February 2019 15:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 05 February 2019 14:57

Leafs only buy one UFA year of Matthews, then he is off to Arizona for $13M x 8.


I like this narrative.



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 Re: Auston Matthew’s Extension - 5yr @ 11.634AAV [message #729668 is a reply to message #729657 ]
Tue, 05 February 2019 17:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 05 February 2019 16:41

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 05 February 2019 14:57

Leafs only buy one UFA year of Matthews, then he is off to Arizona for $13M x 8.


I like this narrative.


With all the talk of how badly this person or that person wants to play in Toronto because they grew up there cheering for the team, there sure isn’t much narrative around Matthews and the Coyotes, though let’s face it he likely grew up a Leafs fan.



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 Re: Auston Matthew’s Extension - 5yr @ 11.634AAV [message #729654 is a reply to message #729608 ]
Tue, 05 February 2019 15:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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If I am a Leafs fan, I am not thrilled about that AAV.

Some facts:

- Since Matthews joined the league 3 years ago, he is 21st in points per game and 3rd in goals per game.

- This season, Matthews is 13th in points per game and 5th in goals per game.

- His cap hit of 11.634M AAV against existing contracts today ranks 2nd highest in the league.

- If the cap jumps to 83.4M next year (middle of the predicted increase range), Matthews will occupy 13.94% of that. Tavares will occupy 13.19% of that for a combined 27.14%.

- For comparison of the above point, at the beginning of Malkin's second contract in 2009, him and Crosby occupied 30.63% of the cap. They both occupied 15.3% of the cap each at an 8.7M AAV.

- The difference is that Malkin and Crosby are ranked 3rd and 4th respectively in points per game played over the last 3 seasons. And in the 3 seasons preceding Malkin's second contract, which is where we are with Matthews today, Crosby and him were 3rd and 1st respectively in points per game over that time.


Am I still envious of Toronto and the core, management, coaching, they have? Yes. But I don't think this contract quite matches up with Matthews abilities and where he is with respect to the rest of the league. Perhaps this $ figure is more understandable if they bought more than 1 UFA year. It's a tough negotiation with your star, but I don't think Dubas did a great job here.

You know, I hear that agents will cite Florida salaries as irrelevant because there is no state income tax. Fair enough. However, if I am a GM of the largest hockey market (or any Canadian market), I am also pumping that you will never have more endorsement opportunities than you will in Toronto. Yes, you do have to work for them, unlike you would for a tax break. I'd be selling the fact that it's pretty financially awesome to be a star and build a brand in Toronto. If that is important to the client, the Leafs could use many resources/relationships to help them arrange and manage these opportunities.






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 Re: Auston Matthew’s Extension - 5yr @ 11.634AAV [message #729814 is a reply to message #729654 ]
Wed, 06 February 2019 08:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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smyth260 wrote on Tue, 05 February 2019 15:25

If I am a Leafs fan, I am not thrilled about that AAV.

Some facts:

- Since Matthews joined the league 3 years ago, he is 21st in points per game and 3rd in goals per game.

- This season, Matthews is 13th in points per game and 5th in goals per game.

- His cap hit of 11.634M AAV against existing contracts today ranks 2nd highest in the league.

- If the cap jumps to 83.4M next year (middle of the predicted increase range), Matthews will occupy 13.94% of that. Tavares will occupy 13.19% of that for a combined 27.14%.

- For comparison of the above point, at the beginning of Malkin's second contract in 2009, him and Crosby occupied 30.63% of the cap. They both occupied 15.3% of the cap each at an 8.7M AAV.

- The difference is that Malkin and Crosby are ranked 3rd and 4th respectively in points per game played over the last 3 seasons. And in the 3 seasons preceding Malkin's second contract, which is where we are with Matthews today, Crosby and him were 3rd and 1st respectively in points per game over that time.


Am I still envious of Toronto and the core, management, coaching, they have? Yes. But I don't think this contract quite matches up with Matthews abilities and where he is with respect to the rest of the league. Perhaps this $ figure is more understandable if they bought more than 1 UFA year. It's a tough negotiation with your star, but I don't think Dubas did a great job here.

You know, I hear that agents will cite Florida salaries as irrelevant because there is no state income tax. Fair enough. However, if I am a GM of the largest hockey market (or any Canadian market), I am also pumping that you will never have more endorsement opportunities than you will in Toronto. Yes, you do have to work for them, unlike you would for a tax break. I'd be selling the fact that it's pretty financially awesome to be a star and build a brand in Toronto. If that is important to the client, the Leafs could use many resources/relationships to help them arrange and manage these opportunities.





I agree with you. I definitely think that Matthews is not giving them a discount. On a max term deal, what's he realistically worth? McDavid makes 12.5 mill, he's the best player in the league by a mile. Maybe he took a "discount", good for him. Matthews isn't at that level so he shouldn't be making that much in my opinion. Yet he's 900k less on a shorter deal. So if you are disregarding that McDavid is WAY better and you can justify a Matthews contract and the disparity in the players on McDavid took a discount, then what would the long term be realistically? Let's say McDavid should be making 15, 16? , what should Matthews actually be making on a long term? 12.5, 13 tops? So he "gave" the Leafs 1.5 discount? WOW.

If you look at the Leafs as of late and their "masterful management". I think they made a mistake on Tavares. Sure it looks great that the home town boy is back. Well he signed for MAX dollars. There is no discount there. Make whatever excuse you want, say he turned down money. He is signed for 11 mill for 7 years at 28 going to be 29. He's at his absolute peak right now. The massive majority of players start to slowly decline right away at his age. So you are paying this guy max money for declining years. As the cap goes up, his contract is not going to look better, it will be worse.

Nylander. Held out for a long time and signed for just under 7. So they ground him down. He's a good, complimentary player who can score you 60 pts. So with all holding out and grinding him what did you save? 600K if that? I don't think he's worth much more than 7.

When we come to Marner. Why would Marner take much less than what Matthews is going to make? Maybe you give the slight up tick for Matthews because he is a center. But what about Tavares. He's a real good player and the big advantage he has on Marner is experience but skill wise and points wise, the edge goes to Marner. So why should Marner get much less than 11?



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 Re: Auston Matthew’s Extension - 5yr @ 11.634AAV [message #729838 is a reply to message #729814 ]
Wed, 06 February 2019 10:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260  is currently offline smyth260
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Regarding Tavares, I disagree. Big win for the Leafs and they did get him under market value. The market changes for UFA's. Tavares turned down 13 million a year from San Jose. Like it or not, that was his market value. If you can add a player of that caliber without giving up any assets, it's a big big win. He's arguably the best free agent to ever hit the market. I don't think they regret it either...being in a cap crunch when you have great talent is expected and a great problem to have.

Matthews was not a UFA though. Yes, he's a pretty tempting offer sheet. We may see that happen this year. But there still are obstacles for a player to sign an offer sheet. A team will need their next 4 first round picks, 12+ million in cap space, and Matthews has to sign it (which could make him leave a pretty great situation in Toronto). Then the Leafs can match anyway. I just think they could have done better. You need to sell the fact that if you want to make it easier to win, people need to take the steps that John did. At that price, they should have bought 8 years.

[Updated on: Wed, 06 February 2019 10:22]


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 Re: Auston Matthew’s Extension - 5yr @ 11.634AAV [message #730273 is a reply to message #729838 ]
Mon, 11 February 2019 14:28 Go to previous message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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smyth260 wrote on Wed, 06 February 2019 10:19

Regarding Tavares, I disagree. Big win for the Leafs and they did get him under market value. The market changes for UFA's. Tavares turned down 13 million a year from San Jose. Like it or not, that was his market value. If you can add a player of that caliber without giving up any assets, it's a big big win. He's arguably the best free agent to ever hit the market. I don't think they regret it either...being in a cap crunch when you have great talent is expected and a great problem to have.

Matthews was not a UFA though. Yes, he's a pretty tempting offer sheet. We may see that happen this year. But there still are obstacles for a player to sign an offer sheet. A team will need their next 4 first round picks, 12+ million in cap space, and Matthews has to sign it (which could make him leave a pretty great situation in Toronto). Then the Leafs can match anyway. I just think they could have done better. You need to sell the fact that if you want to make it easier to win, people need to take the steps that John did. At that price, they should have bought 8 years.


I think it's so funny how the media talks about offer sheets. They seem to act as if they're ridiculously rare, but I would guess there's discussions on them every single year.

If I'm a general manager talking to an agent who has an RFA that I'm interested in, I'm asking him about what his ask is - there's nothing to stop me having that conversation. I know that the agent is going to position things in the best interest of his client, but the data point is still useful to me. If I feel like there's an opportunity, then I'm feeling the agent out about whether or not he'd sign one.

I'd know that just doing that, I've probably interfered enough in the negotiation to jam the other GM a little - I may never be able to get that player, but the fact that there's been conversations is definitely going to get communicated to the player's current GM. We saw that happen with Draisaitl - the agent suggested to Chiarelli that there were offer sheets contemplated and Chia folded like a lawn chair.

I don't think it's a respect thing where people aren't getting offer sheeted because GMs are afraid to do it - I think it's a matter where the agent can get the player to the same place without actually signing an offer sheet...if you had the offer and didn't sign it, you could leverage the same or better deal from the team without the relationship damaging element that comes with publicly accepting an offer to go elsewhere.



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 Re: Auston Matthew’s Extension - 5yr @ 11.634AAV [message #729665 is a reply to message #729608 ]
Tue, 05 February 2019 17:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NetBOG is currently online NetBOG
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It's funny, there was a poster running around this place a few months ago telling everybody that would listen how great the Leafs were for having complete control of their salary situation (in order to bash the Oilers). Now Nylander and Matthews have their money, and Marner will get all the rest of the available cap. It's funny how it looks different AFTER you pay your big players.


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 Re: Auston Matthew’s Extension - 5yr @ 11.634AAV [message #729667 is a reply to message #729665 ]
Tue, 05 February 2019 17:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm  is currently offline Oscargasm
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NetBOG wrote on Tue, 05 February 2019 18:28

It's funny, there was a poster running around this place a few months ago telling everybody that would listen how great the Leafs were for having complete control of their salary situation (in order to bash the Oilers). Now Nylander and Matthews have their money, and Marner will get all the rest of the available cap. It's funny how it looks different AFTER you pay your big players.

That’s why it’s so important to build something great while your franchise has that, or those cornerstone players on ELCs, which the Oilers failed. The Blackhawks haven’t done much of anything since Toews and Kane got their big money, though their aging dmen in Keith and Seabrook were paid big money on long deals that look to be honestly Lucic’esque or worse.



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 Re: Auston Matthew’s Extension - 5yr @ 11.634AAV [message #729669 is a reply to message #729667 ]
Tue, 05 February 2019 18:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260  is currently offline smyth260
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Oscargasm wrote on Tue, 05 February 2019 16:49

NetBOG wrote on Tue, 05 February 2019 18:28

It's funny, there was a poster running around this place a few months ago telling everybody that would listen how great the Leafs were for having complete control of their salary situation (in order to bash the Oilers). Now Nylander and Matthews have their money, and Marner will get all the rest of the available cap. It's funny how it looks different AFTER you pay your big players.

That’s why it’s so important to build something great while your franchise has that, or those cornerstone players on ELCs, which the Oilers failed. The Blackhawks haven’t done much of anything since Toews and Kane got their big money, though their aging dmen in Keith and Seabrook were paid big money on long deals that look to be honestly Lucic’esque or worse.


Even the Blackhawks, for all their cap pains now, have walked away with three Stanley Cups.

The Hawks won a cup on Kane's ELC deal and two more on his second contract. They had to give some term to keep great players during UFA years and lower the cap hit (Keith, Hossa). Given the three Stanley Cups, I'd say that it was a a very properly managed cap. They are paying for it now, but for a team that didn't have a Crosby/Malkin/McDavid/Ovechkin they kept all the right players/staff around to win 3 cups.

The Penguins won a cup in Malkin's 3rd year of his ELC. The Hawks won a cup in the 3rd year of Kane's ELC. And the Leafs look to be preparing for a deep run in the 3rd year of Matthew's/Marner's ELC. I think they overpaid today on Matthew's second contract, but contradictory to NetBog I think this is still a well managed cap situation. The Leafs look to be contenders for a long time. They do not have $15.35 Million on the books for Milan Lucic, Kris Russel, Brandon Manning, and Ryan Spooner next year. Oilers deserve every bashing.



How could one doubt the braintrust of 6 Cups Kevin Lowe, MacT's E-MBA from Queens, Paul Coffey's skills coach resume, and drunk Gretzky?

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 Re: Auston Matthew’s Extension - 5yr @ 11.634AAV [message #729687 is a reply to message #729669 ]
Tue, 05 February 2019 19:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
welcometotheOC  is currently offline welcometotheOC
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Except they were able to do it with the benefit of no contract length limits, no or much looser rules on front loading, and the benefit of the US biased NHL allowing them to get out of the Hossa contract under suspect circumstances. It was NOT pure genius by any means.


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 Re: Auston Matthew’s Extension - 5yr @ 11.634AAV [message #729697 is a reply to message #729687 ]
Tue, 05 February 2019 19:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260  is currently offline smyth260
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You are right that it is not genius. They took advantage of the rules as they were then and spent their money on good players. It should be common sense around the NHL but it's not.


How could one doubt the braintrust of 6 Cups Kevin Lowe, MacT's E-MBA from Queens, Paul Coffey's skills coach resume, and drunk Gretzky?

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 Re: Auston Matthew’s Extension - 5yr @ 11.634AAV [message #729710 is a reply to message #729665 ]
Tue, 05 February 2019 20:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne  is currently offline PlusOne
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NetBOG wrote on Tue, 05 February 2019 18:28

It's funny, there was a poster running around this place a few months ago telling everybody that would listen how great the Leafs were for having complete control of their salary situation (in order to bash the Oilers). Now Nylander and Matthews have their money, and Marner will get all the rest of the available cap. It's funny how it looks different AFTER you pay your big players.


It's funny how you will spin things to try and make the negative/realistic people around here sound wrong.

As much as I dislike the Leafs I would much rather have a max cap team in 4th overall than the Oilers current place in the league.

Oustide of 1C they are better at almost every single roster spot than the Oilers are. I am saying this without going through player by player, they might actually be better at EVERY spot.

I know you hate Hall and defend many of the moves the Oilers have made but you cant tell me the Leafs arent in a LOT better shape than the Oilers?



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 Re: Auston Matthew’s Extension - 5yr @ 11.634AAV [message #729675 is a reply to message #729608 ]
Tue, 05 February 2019 18:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Next up: Mitch Marner. It will be fascinating. No doubt in my mind that Marner’s camp will be looking to get close to what Matthews got. That is $11M+ AAV. No doubt in my mind that TOR will be looking to get Marner on a single digit AAV, in the 9’s. Big gap.

TOR will no doubt use the premium centre/premium goal scorer argument against Marner and cite Kucherov at $9.5M as a good comparable. Marner side will cite productivity numbers that are elite and say Kucherov’s $9.5M is not applicable because it tax-free FLA $.



You can do it Marner! 11M minimum please. If needed look for an offer sheet like O'Rielly got, like 2 year 9M AAV where it's 6M->12M.

Pretty sure there are solid signs that all the savvy negotiating for the leafs was by Lucky Lou through this rebuild. Dubas certainly don't f up the good starting point left to him like Chia did, but I don't think he's the god that leafs fans make him out to be. Nylander and Matthews both got everything they could have hoped for so far.

[Updated on: Tue, 05 February 2019 18:56]


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 Re: Auston Matthew’s Extension - 5yr @ 11.634AAV [message #730261 is a reply to message #729675 ]
Mon, 11 February 2019 13:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
halfafrog  is currently offline halfafrog
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And then there is the Islanders...


So this is what hope feels like?

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