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 Re: Oilers sign Koskinen [message #714313 is a reply to message #714311 ]
Thu, 03 May 2018 16:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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So I did my own homework on this. Quickly pulled save percentages for all goalies with at least 10 appearances last year. There were 71 goalies that saw that level of action.

For Top 30 - Mean was .921, Median was .921, lowest was .913

So by that logic, your average starter should be in the .920 or better range, and you should be expecting minimum performance of around .913 from your starter.

For Next 30 - Mean was .907, Median was .908, and lowest was .898. So your backup should be in the .908 range if he's average. At bare minimum, he should be .900.

For third strings, the worst 11 goalies had an average of .890 with a median of .893.

Interesting to note that the guys acquired by Chiarelli in Edmonton were #46 (Talbot - .908 - average backup numbers), #57 (Nilsson - .901 - bad backup numbers), #66 (Montoya - .893 - middle of the road third string numbers) and #70 (Brossoit - .883 - second worst in the entire league and a major contributor to the lost season). That's pretty damning. Maggie the Monkey would have picked better goaltending than that. The only saving grace I suppose is that three of those goalies played behind a bad Oilers team which certainly contributed to their poor showing on save percentage.

[Updated on: Thu, 03 May 2018 16:35]


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 Re: Oilers sign Koskinen [message #714302 is a reply to message #714296 ]
Thu, 03 May 2018 14:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 03 May 2018 12:13

Part of the problem and this isn't me trying to justify the signing is I don't see anyone of the NHL free agents both UFA and RFA that I am confident in or they could get.

I don't want Lehtonen, Halak, Ward, Lack, Johnson, Pavelec, all UFA's. Lehner is an RFA, I am not a fan of his and I thin he gets a least 2.5 mill, he was making 4 mill last year. Mrazek is an RFa and was crappy. Bernier was making 2.75 mill. He was decent so I think he gets at least what he made last year or more. Helleuyck obviously is Winnipegs guy. Grubeauer was making 1.5 ill, have an excellent year and I see a team like Buffalo maybe trying to get him. Regardless he's making more than 2.5 mill. Hutton for the Blues was outstanding and will get WAY more than 2.5 mill. Hammond no thanks. Hutchinson hasn't been in the league in a few years. Khudobin was ok for Boston but do they let him go?

I just listed the first 15 goalies listed needing a contract and the only 2 I would like is Grubauer and Hutton and they might be in line for some starters jobs but at the very least probably get more than 2.5 mill.


For sure there's no obvious answer. I don't want to belabor the point too much but given what they paid him, the Oilers seem pretty certain they're going to get a very good backup. I just don't see where that confidence comes from. And if they're not sure them I think the better move is to sign a backup for less and try to improve the team elsewhere.

They have Montoya at $1M, and I think, based on history that you can be pretty certain that Montoya will be around .905 - .910 and maybe slightly higher or slightly lower. Koskinen, is a huge unknown, but they're paying him like they're sure he's going to be a .915 goalie.



Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19 pace: 237 GF / 258 GA (-21)

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 Re: Oilers sign Koskinen [message #714303 is a reply to message #714296 ]
Thu, 03 May 2018 14:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 03 May 2018 13:13

Part of the problem and this isn't me trying to justify the signing is I don't see anyone of the NHL free agents both UFA and RFA that I am confident in or they could get.

I don't want Lehtonen, Halak, Ward, Lack, Johnson, Pavelec, all UFA's. Lehner is an RFA, I am not a fan of his and I thin he gets a least 2.5 mill, he was making 4 mill last year. Mrazek is an RFa and was crappy. Bernier was making 2.75 mill. He was decent so I think he gets at least what he made last year or more. Helleuyck obviously is Winnipegs guy. Grubeauer was making 1.5 ill, have an excellent year and I see a team like Buffalo maybe trying to get him. Regardless he's making more than 2.5 mill. Hutton for the Blues was outstanding and will get WAY more than 2.5 mill. Hammond no thanks. Hutchinson hasn't been in the league in a few years. Khudobin was ok for Boston but do they let him go?

I just listed the first 15 goalies listed needing a contract and the only 2 I would like is Grubauer and Hutton and they might be in line for some starters jobs but at the very least probably get more than 2.5 mill.


FWIW, I'd be much happier with Bernier at 2.75 than Koskinen at 2.5. You know what you're getting with Bernier. And if Talbot goes down, Bernier proved he can get a half decent team to the playoffs.

Or you can look for a guy who is being squeezed by his current team. Pickard looks fully capable of being a solid backup. Both him and Subban were on waivers last season and the Oilers passed on both. Still can probably get Pickard in a trade. Or maybe you sign Cale Morris and another goalie for the AHL, roll with Montoya and see if those two develop or any other goalies hit the waiver wire like Pickard and Subban did this year.

It was very early to make a decision about an unknown commodity and to pay that much for him. If you are spending 2.5, at least see if Bernier, Graubauer, Halak, or Hutton would accept it first. You know what you're getting and it's less likely to go off the rails.



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 Re: Oilers sign Koskinen [message #714304 is a reply to message #714303 ]
Thu, 03 May 2018 14:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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Right, and what just work all summer? What's the point of missing the playoffs if you're going to be in the office until June anyways?


You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Oilers sign Koskinen [message #714527 is a reply to message #714304 ]
Fri, 11 May 2018 09:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jay  is currently offline Jay
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Thu, 03 May 2018 14:27

Right, and what just work all summer? What's the point of missing the playoffs if you're going to be in the office until June anyways?

I just want to say this actually made me laugh out loud.

Its a great point. These guys have been working hard all winter. In the trenches I'd say. They absolutely need and deserve 2 or 3 months at the cottage to drink wine, jetski and recharge their batteries. This team isn't going to ruin...I mean run itself next year you know!



"Initiative comes to thems that wait"

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 Re: Oilers sign Koskinen [message #714306 is a reply to message #714303 ]
Thu, 03 May 2018 14:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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mightyreasoner wrote on Thu, 03 May 2018 14:14


FWIW, I'd be much happier with Bernier at 2.75 than Koskinen at 2.5. You know what you're getting with Bernier. And if Talbot goes down, Bernier proved he can get a half decent team to the playoffs.

Or you can look for a guy who is being squeezed by his current team. Pickard looks fully capable of being a solid backup. Both him and Subban were on waivers last season and the Oilers passed on both. Still can probably get Pickard in a trade. Or maybe you sign Cale Morris and another goalie for the AHL, roll with Montoya and see if those two develop or any other goalies hit the waiver wire like Pickard and Subban did this year.

It was very early to make a decision about an unknown commodity and to pay that much for him. If you are spending 2.5, at least see if Bernier, Graubauer, Halak, or Hutton would accept it first. You know what you're getting and it's less likely to go off the rails.



And I do question whether these guys think much about the cap and how they juggle everything under that cap. Here's the signed roster for next year:

Forwards (9) - $38.00MM cap hit:
McDavid, Draisaitl, Nugent-Hopkins, Lucic, Kassian, Puljujarvi, Rattie, Khaira, Aberg.

Defence (4) - $17.83MM:
Sekera, Klefbom, Larsson, Russell

Goalies (2) - $6.67MM:
Talbot, Koskinen, Montoya (minors-bound)

Assuming a $75MM cap, that means that we have $62.5MMcap space locked up for next year, and we need to add five forwards and three defencemen.

Our RFAs are Strome, Caggiula, Nurse & Benning. Strome will get similar money to last year, Nurse will get a huge raise. Caggiula and Benning will get modest raises. Reasonable guess would be $2.5, $1.5, $4.0, $1.5 - that's 9.5MM, which leaves only $3MM for the other four hires. Maybe there will be an increase in the cap and we'll get a tiny bit more room, but there's not a lot of margin for error here, so if you over pay a guy by a million bucks, it has big ramifications on the rest of the roster. We have zero winger depth, and we can't afford to go get it.

And if we were to trade for a $7MM/year offensive d-man, we would have to send significant salary dollars the other way. We can't address all the issues, and I'm not convinced that there's a big upgrade from Montoya to Koskinen, who's getting paid 2.5X as much.



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#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan #FireBobbyNicks

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 Re: Oilers sign Koskinen [message #714323 is a reply to message #714303 ]
Fri, 04 May 2018 08:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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mightyreasoner wrote on Thu, 03 May 2018 14:14

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 03 May 2018 13:13

Part of the problem and this isn't me trying to justify the signing is I don't see anyone of the NHL free agents both UFA and RFA that I am confident in or they could get.

I don't want Lehtonen, Halak, Ward, Lack, Johnson, Pavelec, all UFA's. Lehner is an RFA, I am not a fan of his and I thin he gets a least 2.5 mill, he was making 4 mill last year. Mrazek is an RFa and was crappy. Bernier was making 2.75 mill. He was decent so I think he gets at least what he made last year or more. Helleuyck obviously is Winnipegs guy. Grubeauer was making 1.5 ill, have an excellent year and I see a team like Buffalo maybe trying to get him. Regardless he's making more than 2.5 mill. Hutton for the Blues was outstanding and will get WAY more than 2.5 mill. Hammond no thanks. Hutchinson hasn't been in the league in a few years. Khudobin was ok for Boston but do they let him go?

I just listed the first 15 goalies listed needing a contract and the only 2 I would like is Grubauer and Hutton and they might be in line for some starters jobs but at the very least probably get more than 2.5 mill.


FWIW, I'd be much happier with Bernier at 2.75 than Koskinen at 2.5. You know what you're getting with Bernier. And if Talbot goes down, Bernier proved he can get a half decent team to the playoffs.

Or you can look for a guy who is being squeezed by his current team. Pickard looks fully capable of being a solid backup. Both him and Subban were on waivers last season and the Oilers passed on both. Still can probably get Pickard in a trade. Or maybe you sign Cale Morris and another goalie for the AHL, roll with Montoya and see if those two develop or any other goalies hit the waiver wire like Pickard and Subban did this year.

It was very early to make a decision about an unknown commodity and to pay that much for him. If you are spending 2.5, at least see if Bernier, Graubauer, Halak, or Hutton would accept it first. You know what you're getting and it's less likely to go off the rails.


In my opinion, the Oilers need a goalie who can play at least 20-25 games. Montoya is most definitely not that guy. I am not rolling the dice on a college free agent. Could Pickard do it? Maybe. I just wonder at 26 yrs old, what his deal is. Why hasn't he stuck anywhere yet?

When it comes to the UFA guys you listed. You'd be asking Bernier to move to Edmonton and take a pay cut. What realistically are the odds that happens? Buffalo needs 2 new goalies because I heard a Buffalo media guy on Gregor's show say both Lehner and Johnson will be gone. Carolina's goaltending was a disaster. The Flyers goaltending was lousy and they need 2 goalies. The Islanders have Griess still signed but he was lousy and Halak will be gone. Who's the starter in St. Louis? They have Allen but Hutton might have took that job last season. So that's 5 teams with unsettled goaltending and potentially 5 starters job. Both Hutton and Grubauer had really good numbers and I would assume they would get starters offers or at least 1A jobs from a few of the teams I listed. So they will make way more than 2.5 mill.

[Updated on: Fri, 04 May 2018 08:41]


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 Re: Oilers sign Koskinen [message #714991 is a reply to message #714323 ]
Fri, 25 May 2018 14:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76  is currently offline inverno76
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It’s a bad signing because you’re giving him too much money. The only way he fulfills his potential deal is if becomes a top back up in the league. There is no value to the deal. You can only lose or break even. Couldn’t imagine running a business where your only goal was to break even.

If he’s unbelievable he earns his contract. Anything less and we lose.

I’d rather run with Montoya.

[Updated on: Sat, 26 May 2018 19:37]


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 Re: Oilers sign Koskinen [message #724414 is a reply to message #714159 ]
Sun, 09 December 2018 23:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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I have to say, I kinda like this Koskinen guy.

He works his butt off out there. You can see why Hitch says he's a good teammate that guys want to play for. He battles his butt off.


Reflecting on the judgement of him based on his KHL stats. Thinking about it more...how much can you really know about a goalie from his KHL stats while playing for a stacked team? Is it the players fault that he probably has an easy night almost every game? He let in a goal every ~16 shots. If he only let one in every 17 shots he would have had even more amazing stats, sure, but...he didn't have to, the team lit people up, winning was easy.

Really, the only way to know what this guy was in any recent history would have been by scouting him.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
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 Re: Oilers sign Koskinen [message #724415 is a reply to message #724414 ]
Sun, 09 December 2018 23:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stemhovlichski  is currently offline stemhovlichski
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Kr55 wrote on Sun, 09 December 2018 23:01

I have to say, I kinda like this Koskinen guy. <snip>

Really, the only way to know what this guy was in any recent history would have been by scouting him.



...or having your old buddy Jari Kurri tip you off for old time's sake. Don't give the scouts credit unless they deserve it! icon_lol




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 Re: Oilers sign Koskinen [message #724416 is a reply to message #724415 ]
Sun, 09 December 2018 23:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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stemhovlichski wrote on Sun, 09 December 2018 23:08

Kr55 wrote on Sun, 09 December 2018 23:01

I have to say, I kinda like this Koskinen guy. <snip>

Really, the only way to know what this guy was in any recent history would have been by scouting him.



...or having your old buddy Jari Kurri tip you off for old time's sake. Don't give the scouts credit unless they deserve it! icon_lol




Oh yeah, for sure. I don't mean to give the Oilers and scouts all kinds of credit here :)

But, i do feel I was wrong to pass judgement on this guy based on his KHL stats. Like comparing him to that no-name guy the Avs signed that didn't make it through training camp (although, he looks like he's doing well in the AHL at least).

His recent play time was in a grey area where it's really hard to judge a player just based on his stats. Like if you were over a year into playing for Dallas Eakins in the NHL, people would be wrong to judge anyone taking part in something as ridiculous as that :)

[Updated on: Sun, 09 December 2018 23:14]


"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Oilers sign Koskinen [message #724423 is a reply to message #724416 ]
Mon, 10 December 2018 08:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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9-3 with one of those losses given to him only because he played more than Talbot in the Av's game but he only gave up 1 goal while Talbot gave up 3. 2.06 GA, .929% and 3 shut outs. At the time the signing seemed to be a way to much but with the way he is playing, he's probably going to end up playing close to half the year and if you are getting quality starts from him most games, the contract is fine. He's been superior to Talbot and it's not even close. They are darn lucky to have him as without him, they would probably be deadlast in the league with the way Talbot was playing. It was interesting to listen to Hitch who said last night that Zubov who is a coach on the team that Koskinen played for in the KHL called him and told him rave reviews. I am cautiously optimistic they have a good one in him.


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 Re: Oilers sign Koskinen [message #724427 is a reply to message #724423 ]
Mon, 10 December 2018 08:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OilPeg  is currently offline OilPeg
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 10 December 2018 09:08

9-3 with one of those losses given to him only because he played more than Talbot in the Av's game but he only gave up 1 goal while Talbot gave up 3. 2.06 GA, .929% and 3 shut outs. At the time the signing seemed to be a way to much but with the way he is playing, he's probably going to end up playing close to half the year and if you are getting quality starts from him most games, the contract is fine. He's been superior to Talbot and it's not even close. They are darn lucky to have him as without him, they would probably be deadlast in the league with the way Talbot was playing. It was interesting to listen to Hitch who said last night that Zubov who is a coach on the team that Koskinen played for in the KHL called him and told him rave reviews. I am cautiously optimistic they have a good one in him.


You keep saying that he got a loss in that Colorado game, he didn't. He lost Nov 6 to Tampa Bay, Nov 17 to Calgary and Dec 3 to Dallas. He didn't have a decision in that Colorado game because Talbot gave up what would be the winning goal, that's how they do it if I'm not mistaken. Has nothing to do with minutes played.

I agree with you that the Oilers are lucky they made this signing, as critical as most of us were at the time, it's turned out really well.



Skookum Jim wrote on Sat, 02 June 2012 00:29

But he (Belanger)'s as soft as room temp. margarine.

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 Re: Oilers sign Koskinen [message #724428 is a reply to message #724427 ]
Mon, 10 December 2018 08:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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OilPeg wrote on Mon, 10 December 2018 08:20

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 10 December 2018 09:08

9-3 with one of those losses given to him only because he played more than Talbot in the Av's game but he only gave up 1 goal while Talbot gave up 3. 2.06 GA, .929% and 3 shut outs. At the time the signing seemed to be a way to much but with the way he is playing, he's probably going to end up playing close to half the year and if you are getting quality starts from him most games, the contract is fine. He's been superior to Talbot and it's not even close. They are darn lucky to have him as without him, they would probably be deadlast in the league with the way Talbot was playing. It was interesting to listen to Hitch who said last night that Zubov who is a coach on the team that Koskinen played for in the KHL called him and told him rave reviews. I am cautiously optimistic they have a good one in him.


You keep saying that he got a loss in that Colorado game, he didn't. He lost Nov 6 to Tampa Bay, Nov 17 to Calgary and Dec 3 to Dallas. He didn't have a decision in that Colorado game because Talbot gave up what would be the winning goal, that's how they do it if I'm not mistaken. Has nothing to do with minutes played.

I agree with you that the Oilers are lucky they made this signing, as critical as most of us were at the time, it's turned out really well.

Sorry, I read a stat wrong. My mistake.



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 Re: Oilers sign Koskinen [message #724433 is a reply to message #724423 ]
Mon, 10 December 2018 09:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 10 December 2018 08:08

9-3 with one of those losses given to him only because he played more than Talbot in the Av's game but he only gave up 1 goal while Talbot gave up 3. 2.06 GA, .929% and 3 shut outs. At the time the signing seemed to be a way to much but with the way he is playing, he's probably going to end up playing close to half the year and if you are getting quality starts from him most games, the contract is fine. He's been superior to Talbot and it's not even close. They are darn lucky to have him as without him, they would probably be deadlast in the league with the way Talbot was playing. It was interesting to listen to Hitch who said last night that Zubov who is a coach on the team that Koskinen played for in the KHL called him and told him rave reviews. I am cautiously optimistic they have a good one in him.


woah woah. What's with all the railing on Talbot still? He's played 3 games very well for us since Hitch came here, all 3 he's played under Hitch. Do you want Talbot to fail that badly?



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Oilers sign Koskinen [message #724437 is a reply to message #724433 ]
Mon, 10 December 2018 09:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NZ Oiler Fan  is currently offline NZ Oiler Fan
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Kr55 wrote on Mon, 10 December 2018 12:23

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 10 December 2018 08:08

9-3 with one of those losses given to him only because he played more than Talbot in the Av's game but he only gave up 1 goal while Talbot gave up 3. 2.06 GA, .929% and 3 shut outs. At the time the signing seemed to be a way to much but with the way he is playing, he's probably going to end up playing close to half the year and if you are getting quality starts from him most games, the contract is fine. He's been superior to Talbot and it's not even close. They are darn lucky to have him as without him, they would probably be deadlast in the league with the way Talbot was playing. It was interesting to listen to Hitch who said last night that Zubov who is a coach on the team that Koskinen played for in the KHL called him and told him rave reviews. I am cautiously optimistic they have a good one in him.


woah woah. What's with all the railing on Talbot still? He's played 3 games very well for us since Hitch came here, all 3 he's played under Hitch. Do you want Talbot to fail that badly?


It's almost as if the team learned how to play D since Hitch took over.
Weird



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 Re: Oilers sign Koskinen [message #724441 is a reply to message #724433 ]
Mon, 10 December 2018 10:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Kr55 wrote on Mon, 10 December 2018 09:23

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 10 December 2018 08:08

9-3 with one of those losses given to him only because he played more than Talbot in the Av's game but he only gave up 1 goal while Talbot gave up 3. 2.06 GA, .929% and 3 shut outs. At the time the signing seemed to be a way to much but with the way he is playing, he's probably going to end up playing close to half the year and if you are getting quality starts from him most games, the contract is fine. He's been superior to Talbot and it's not even close. They are darn lucky to have him as without him, they would probably be deadlast in the league with the way Talbot was playing. It was interesting to listen to Hitch who said last night that Zubov who is a coach on the team that Koskinen played for in the KHL called him and told him rave reviews. I am cautiously optimistic they have a good one in him.


woah woah. What's with all the railing on Talbot still? He's played 3 games very well for us since Hitch came here, all 3 he's played under Hitch. Do you want Talbot to fail that badly?


I didn't know know telling the truth about Talbot was railing him. All I said about him was he hasn't been very good for most of the season. That's true. He has been a lot better the last few starts which is great. I like Talbot, I want him to do well. If you remember I felt he was poised to bounce back. The Oilers need him to be good. But you don't have a 3.12 GA and a .895% if you have had a good season. But as I said, I really hope the way he has played the last few games is a sign has finally found his game and he's back.

When it comes to the defense. Yes Hitchcock has made some changes and the team is a lot better defensively BUT prior to Hitch, Koskinen played on the same team with the same coaches, under the same system with the same dmen and he was significantly better. So you can't pin all the woes of Talbot on the defense.



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 Re: Oilers sign Koskinen [message #724443 is a reply to message #724441 ]
Mon, 10 December 2018 10:11 Go to previous message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 10 December 2018 10:07

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 10 December 2018 09:23

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 10 December 2018 08:08

9-3 with one of those losses given to him only because he played more than Talbot in the Av's game but he only gave up 1 goal while Talbot gave up 3. 2.06 GA, .929% and 3 shut outs. At the time the signing seemed to be a way to much but with the way he is playing, he's probably going to end up playing close to half the year and if you are getting quality starts from him most games, the contract is fine. He's been superior to Talbot and it's not even close. They are darn lucky to have him as without him, they would probably be deadlast in the league with the way Talbot was playing. It was interesting to listen to Hitch who said last night that Zubov who is a coach on the team that Koskinen played for in the KHL called him and told him rave reviews. I am cautiously optimistic they have a good one in him.


woah woah. What's with all the railing on Talbot still? He's played 3 games very well for us since Hitch came here, all 3 he's played under Hitch. Do you want Talbot to fail that badly?


I didn't know know telling the truth about Talbot was railing him. All I said about him was he hasn't been very good for most of the season. That's true. He has been a lot better the last few starts which is great. I like Talbot, I want him to do well. If you remember I felt he was poised to bounce back. The Oilers need him to be good. But you don't have a 3.12 GA and a .895% if you have had a good season. But as I said, I really hope the way he has played the last few games is a sign has finally found his game and he's back.

When it comes to the defense. Yes Hitchcock has made some changes and the team is a lot better defensively BUT prior to Hitch, Koskinen played on the same team with the same coaches, under the same system with the same dmen and he was significantly better. So you can't pin all the woes of Talbot on the defense.


I don't know why we can't compliment Koskinen without having to tear down Talbot though. What's wrong with having 2 good goalies? That kind of situation won the Pens 2 cups in a row.

And I do personally think the team played very different for Talbot than they did for Koskinen. I think Todd was a coach that would push the mentality that the goalie is letting the team down. He complained many times after games about how they couldn't get a save. Koskinen hasn't had to live through a down period here, and all goalies have them eventually, no matter how good they are. He's lucky he never had to struggle under Todd and how mentally fragile this team was under him. He could have fallen down the same hole that every other goalie that's been here under Todd did before him.

[Updated on: Mon, 10 December 2018 10:15]


"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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