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 Review: Arizona @ Edmonton (Game #66) [message #711183]
Mon, 05 March 2018 21:20 Go to next message
OilFans  is currently offline OilFans
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 Re: Review: Arizona @ Edmonton (Game #66) [message #711195 is a reply to message #711183 ]
Mon, 05 March 2018 21:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76  is currently offline inverno76
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No Cups

I still like wins


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 Re: Review: Arizona @ Edmonton (Game #66) [message #711196 is a reply to message #711183 ]
Mon, 05 March 2018 21:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
g2k  is currently offline g2k
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Tonight Arizona.

Tomorrow the world.



Limecat Logic

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 Re: Review: Arizona @ Edmonton (Game #66) [message #711197 is a reply to message #711183 ]
Mon, 05 March 2018 21:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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COngrats on being the slump-busters Arizona.


"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Review: Arizona @ Edmonton (Game #66) [message #711200 is a reply to message #711197 ]
Mon, 05 March 2018 21:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76  is currently offline inverno76
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No Cups

We only lose one point to Phoenix.

Sens win.

Sabres beat the Leafs.

Calgary loses again.

Vancouver is in it at the time of this post.

I’d call this a good night.



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 Re: Review: Arizona @ Edmonton (Game #66) [message #711201 is a reply to message #711183 ]
Mon, 05 March 2018 21:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm  is currently offline Oscargasm
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Have to say I’m glad Lucic finally got the monkey off his back. Crazy to think he only (finally) has 10 on the year now..


2016: We need to get heavier, and we need a defenseman!

2018: We need to get faster, and we need a defenseman!

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 Re: Review: Arizona @ Edmonton (Game #66) [message #711202 is a reply to message #711201 ]
Mon, 05 March 2018 22:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76  is currently offline inverno76
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How about Bear running the PP?

I would give him as much responsibility as I could until seasons end with the extra attached and shelter him at ES.

Might need to sell the farm for Barrie. Why can’t he be our Barrie or Ghostebere? Cause we are Oilers and we can’t have a nice surprise?



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 Re: Review: Arizona @ Edmonton (Game #66) [message #711203 is a reply to message #711202 ]
Mon, 05 March 2018 22:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm  is currently offline Oscargasm
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inverno76 wrote on Mon, 05 March 2018 23:15

How about Bear running the PP?

I would give him as much responsibility as I could until seasons end with the extra attached and shelter him at ES.

Might need to sell the farm for Barrie. Why can’t he be our Barrie or Ghostebere? Cause we are Oilers and we can’t have a nice surprise?


He had a rather nice game tonight. I’d much rather see them keep him up and shut down Sek (who’s clearly still hindered by the knee). Give the kid a shot to finish the year off. It’s not like he’ll get a taste of a stretch drive to the playoffs in Bakersfield. Keep him up and play him.



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 Re: Review: Arizona @ Edmonton (Game #66) [message #711204 is a reply to message #711183 ]
Mon, 05 March 2018 22:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm  is currently offline Oscargasm
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Not to be lost in the slump buster of a game, McDavid reaches 80 points with that Klefbom winner. McPoints are always better with a W


2016: We need to get heavier, and we need a defenseman!

2018: We need to get faster, and we need a defenseman!

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 Re: Review: Arizona @ Edmonton (Game #66) [message #711211 is a reply to message #711204 ]
Tue, 06 March 2018 08:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently online RDOilerfan
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My thoughts.
The good.
Very happy for Lucic and I like it even more that it wasn't a crap goal hitting his skate. He blew that one by the goalie. You could literally see the 1000 lbs weight fall off his shoulders. He even cracked a smile. The reaction of his teammates was the best. McDavid looked like he was celebrating the cup winning goal he was so happy. At least these guys seemingly look like they are trying for one another still. He had a few really good looks so maybe the flood gates will open.

I thought Klefbom was better and I am glad he scored especially after missing that easy one.
I liked Strome at times. It took him awhile but he seems to have settled into a role as their 3rd line center. Can win the odd draw, play both teams, hover around 15 goals, 40 pts. I'd resign him to similar money.

McDavid and Drai were good.

I liked what I saw in Bear, especially on the PP. His passing was great and you can see he has offensively instincts. I have hopes for him. Needs to work on the defensive game but he's a first year pro.
I am loving Khaira. He is looking to be a solid bottom 6 center. Scored a shorty. Given this is really his first NHL season, I have high hopes for him. He has 11 goals. If he can give you 10-15 goals as a bott 6 player, that's great. I don't see why he can't.

Puljujarvi with a laser on his off wing on the PP. Having a right shooting player with a good shot on your left wing on the PP to wire pucks actually works. WOW. Who would have thought Woodcroff icon_rolleyes

Talbot was pretty good for the most part. The second goal he let squeeze through short side I wasn't a fan but he kept them in it and got the win.

Aberg looks OK. Lots of speed, always seems to be buzzing around.

Sekera actually looked like he can play in the NHL last night. Still not up to his usual self, I don't expect that to see that this year but at least he looked like he knew what the hell he was doing for the most part.

Pakarinen does what he does. The odd hit, solid defensively. Seems to do decent on the PK. Nothing offensively.

Benning I thought was decent and played a solid, non eventful defensively game which is a good thing. Doesn't look to be anything more than a 3rd pairing guy but that's OK. I hope he can string together some solid games in a row.

Nuge was OK. He actually was a physical presence. His defensive game was good. Didn't generate much offensively.

The bad.
Caggulia. Made a couple of hits. Props for taking his helmet off to have that slap fight with Domi but other than that, didn't notice him much offensively and seemed to have trouble in his end. The guy sat last game so I thought he'd come out more.

Slep. Didn't notice him. I spent yesterday making the case to move him up to give him a shot. Then he goes invisible on me. Thanks a lot.

RUssell. I am not sure what he was doing on the 3rd goal laying down doing the star fish.

Cammalleri I didn't think he was bad but doesn't do much. No clue what the point of him being anything more than a 4th liner is.

I hated the top 2 lines. I said it yesterday. I don't get it. We can debate all we want about Lucic being with McDavid but when you load up your top line with Leon and McDavid, you extremely water down your second line offensively. Maybe Nuge is a little better defensively than Leon but he should be. Nuge has is older and has WAY more experience and games than Leon. So he should have a better idea defensively but offensively it's not close. Nuge is a 50 pt player, Leon is a 70+ point player. Why oh why a coach would want to water your lines down offensively, I still can't figure that one out.



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 Re: Review: Arizona @ Edmonton (Game #66) [message #711212 is a reply to message #711211 ]
Tue, 06 March 2018 08:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skoobz  is currently offline Skoobz
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Hot take: Ekman-Larsson isn't that good, and the overpay the Oilers will make for him isn't going to be worth it.


"[It was] really cool to throw on the Oilers gear, the gear that I want to play the rest of my life wearing. It was pretty cool to put it on. With all the history, it was a lot of fun." - Connor McDavid, July 1, 2015

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 Re: Review: Arizona @ Edmonton (Game #66) [message #711213 is a reply to message #711212 ]
Tue, 06 March 2018 09:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NetBOG  is currently offline NetBOG
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Skoobz wrote on Tue, 06 March 2018 08:56

Hot take: Ekman-Larsson isn't that good, and the overpay the Oilers will make for him isn't going to be worth it.


I'll take OEL, I'm worried about a massive overpay for Tyson Barrie.



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 Re: Review: Arizona @ Edmonton (Game #66) [message #711214 is a reply to message #711212 ]
Tue, 06 March 2018 09:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Skoobz wrote on Tue, 06 March 2018 08:56

Hot take: Ekman-Larsson isn't that good, and the overpay the Oilers will make for him isn't going to be worth it.


He has owned us for years though. I dunno, I think he has some pretty darn good moves defensively, and offensively. Expert diver too, lol.

I really wonder what kinds of points he could put up if he actually played on a team with any offensive depth. ANd how could a guy not feel like he's just going through the motions on a team like that. Imagine going into every season knowing your cheap ownership is never going to give you a shot to be successful.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Review: Arizona @ Edmonton (Game #66) [message #711220 is a reply to message #711214 ]
Tue, 06 March 2018 09:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently online RDOilerfan
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 06 March 2018 09:08

Skoobz wrote on Tue, 06 March 2018 08:56

Hot take: Ekman-Larsson isn't that good, and the overpay the Oilers will make for him isn't going to be worth it.


He has owned us for years though. I dunno, I think he has some pretty darn good moves defensively, and offensively. Expert diver too, lol.

I really wonder what kinds of points he could put up if he actually played on a team with any offensive depth. ANd how could a guy not feel like he's just going through the motions on a team like that. Imagine going into every season knowing your cheap ownership is never going to give you a shot to be successful.


If OEL was on the Oilers, he'd have over 50 pts easily. He will get over 40 with the Yotes and they don't have any forwards that can score.



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 Re: Review: Arizona @ Edmonton (Game #66) [message #711225 is a reply to message #711220 ]
Tue, 06 March 2018 09:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently online Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 06 March 2018 09:27

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 06 March 2018 09:08

Skoobz wrote on Tue, 06 March 2018 08:56

Hot take: Ekman-Larsson isn't that good, and the overpay the Oilers will make for him isn't going to be worth it.


He has owned us for years though. I dunno, I think he has some pretty darn good moves defensively, and offensively. Expert diver too, lol.

I really wonder what kinds of points he could put up if he actually played on a team with any offensive depth. ANd how could a guy not feel like he's just going through the motions on a team like that. Imagine going into every season knowing your cheap ownership is never going to give you a shot to be successful.


If OEL was on the Oilers, he'd have over 50 pts easily. He will get over 40 with the Yotes and they don't have any forwards that can score.


I think that the Oilers do this sort of math all the time, and it rarely works out for them. You can't count on a guy who's usually a 40 point guy being a 50 point guy on another team. It's not the most likely course of events, even if he plays with better players. Hope for what he is now to not regress and consider deals accordingly. Best case scenarios are how we end up with Ryan Strome, with the Oilers thinking maybe with McDavid and Draisaitl, he's magically a 50-60 point player. Same with Lucic for that matter, where they actually (laughably) thought he was a replacement for Hall at the same bleeping price point.

I'm not sold on Ekman-Larsson as an elite #1 defenceman. I think he's decent, but at the price that the Coyotes are likely to ask for him...I don't know that he'll cover the bet.






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 Re: Review: Arizona @ Edmonton (Game #66) [message #711227 is a reply to message #711225 ]
Tue, 06 March 2018 09:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Adam wrote on Tue, 06 March 2018 09:49

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 06 March 2018 09:27

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 06 March 2018 09:08

Skoobz wrote on Tue, 06 March 2018 08:56

Hot take: Ekman-Larsson isn't that good, and the overpay the Oilers will make for him isn't going to be worth it.


He has owned us for years though. I dunno, I think he has some pretty darn good moves defensively, and offensively. Expert diver too, lol.

I really wonder what kinds of points he could put up if he actually played on a team with any offensive depth. ANd how could a guy not feel like he's just going through the motions on a team like that. Imagine going into every season knowing your cheap ownership is never going to give you a shot to be successful.


If OEL was on the Oilers, he'd have over 50 pts easily. He will get over 40 with the Yotes and they don't have any forwards that can score.


I think that the Oilers do this sort of math all the time, and it rarely works out for them. You can't count on a guy who's usually a 40 point guy being a 50 point guy on another team. It's not the most likely course of events, even if he plays with better players. Hope for what he is now to not regress and consider deals accordingly. Best case scenarios are how we end up with Ryan Strome, with the Oilers thinking maybe with McDavid and Draisaitl, he's magically a 50-60 point player. Same with Lucic for that matter, where they actually (laughably) thought he was a replacement for Hall at the same bleeping price point.

I'm not sold on Ekman-Larsson as an elite #1 defenceman. I think he's decent, but at the price that the Coyotes are likely to ask for him...I don't know that he'll cover the bet.






Hey, a boost from a better situation worked for Maroon :)

Think you have to consider a lot of factors. For OEL. Always been on a mediocre to bad team. Almost always the guy getting buried in his own end taking all the hard minutes. Almost always stuck playing trap hockey. He has been in a pretty unique and crappy situation for most of his career. He's had 23 and 21 goal seasons, and a >50 point season. I'm sure he feels stuck a lot just having to do stuff on his own on that team.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Review: Arizona @ Edmonton (Game #66) [message #711228 is a reply to message #711227 ]
Tue, 06 March 2018 10:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm  is currently offline Oscargasm
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 06 March 2018 10:57



Think you have to consider a lot of factors. For OEL. Always been on a mediocre to bad team. Almost always the guy getting buried in his own end taking all the hard minutes. Almost always stuck playing trap hockey. He has been in a pretty unique and crappy situation for most of his career.


So how would his situation be different in Edmonton? Aside from the obvious, McDavid.



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 Re: Review: Arizona @ Edmonton (Game #66) [message #711230 is a reply to message #711228 ]
Tue, 06 March 2018 10:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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OilMJMOil wrote on Tue, 06 March 2018 10:00

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 06 March 2018 10:57



Think you have to consider a lot of factors. For OEL. Always been on a mediocre to bad team. Almost always the guy getting buried in his own end taking all the hard minutes. Almost always stuck playing trap hockey. He has been in a pretty unique and crappy situation for most of his career.


So how would his situation be different in Edmonton? Aside from the obvious, McDavid.

Ummmmm McDavid?



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 Re: Review: Arizona @ Edmonton (Game #66) [message #711232 is a reply to message #711230 ]
Tue, 06 March 2018 10:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm  is currently offline Oscargasm
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CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 06 March 2018 11:02

OilMJMOil wrote on Tue, 06 March 2018 10:00

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 06 March 2018 10:57



Think you have to consider a lot of factors. For OEL. Always been on a mediocre to bad team. Almost always the guy getting buried in his own end taking all the hard minutes. Almost always stuck playing trap hockey. He has been in a pretty unique and crappy situation for most of his career.


So how would his situation be different in Edmonton? Aside from the obvious, McDavid.

Ummmmm McDavid?


Oh silly me, how could I have forgotten McDavid.



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 Re: Review: Arizona @ Edmonton (Game #66) [message #711231 is a reply to message #711228 ]
Tue, 06 March 2018 10:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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OilMJMOil wrote on Tue, 06 March 2018 10:00

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 06 March 2018 10:57



Think you have to consider a lot of factors. For OEL. Always been on a mediocre to bad team. Almost always the guy getting buried in his own end taking all the hard minutes. Almost always stuck playing trap hockey. He has been in a pretty unique and crappy situation for most of his career.


So how would his situation be different in Edmonton? Aside from the obvious, McDavid.


This is probably closer to Klef's situation this year, but take away McDavid and Drai, give him more defensive zone starts and enforce a full on trap game plan.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Review: Arizona @ Edmonton (Game #66) [message #711233 is a reply to message #711225 ]
Tue, 06 March 2018 10:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently online RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Tue, 06 March 2018 09:49

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 06 March 2018 09:27

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 06 March 2018 09:08

Skoobz wrote on Tue, 06 March 2018 08:56

Hot take: Ekman-Larsson isn't that good, and the overpay the Oilers will make for him isn't going to be worth it.


He has owned us for years though. I dunno, I think he has some pretty darn good moves defensively, and offensively. Expert diver too, lol.

I really wonder what kinds of points he could put up if he actually played on a team with any offensive depth. ANd how could a guy not feel like he's just going through the motions on a team like that. Imagine going into every season knowing your cheap ownership is never going to give you a shot to be successful.


If OEL was on the Oilers, he'd have over 50 pts easily. He will get over 40 with the Yotes and they don't have any forwards that can score.


I think that the Oilers do this sort of math all the time, and it rarely works out for them. You can't count on a guy who's usually a 40 point guy being a 50 point guy on another team. It's not the most likely course of events, even if he plays with better players. Hope for what he is now to not regress and consider deals accordingly. Best case scenarios are how we end up with Ryan Strome, with the Oilers thinking maybe with McDavid and Draisaitl, he's magically a 50-60 point player. Same with Lucic for that matter, where they actually (laughably) thought he was a replacement for Hall at the same bleeping price point.

I'm not sold on Ekman-Larsson as an elite #1 defenceman. I think he's decent, but at the price that the Coyotes are likely to ask for him...I don't know that he'll cover the bet.





Well he has 9 goals and 33 points in 65 games with the Yotes so far. Given how much he plays and how heavily they lean on him, I don't think it's a stretch for him to get pretty darn close to 40 pts. His worst offensive year in the the last 5 season including this one is 39 pts in 79 games. Scoring 40 pts on a team with who? Their best line last night by a mile was Martinook - Richardson - Cousins. 4th liners. He gets the puck in his own zone, skates it out and hits a guy in stride on the tape to who that actually has a legit chance to score? The Oilers have a high 90's to 100 pts player In McDavid, a 70-80 pt player in Leon, a 50 pts player in Nuge to pass too and the Coyotes best center is Stepan who's Nuge equivalent.

So you don't think having OEL on a team with 2 top 10 scoring players will have an impact on his points?



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 Re: Review: Arizona @ Edmonton (Game #66) [message #711238 is a reply to message #711233 ]
Tue, 06 March 2018 10:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently online Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 06 March 2018 10:07


So you don't think having OEL on a team with 2 top 10 scoring players will have an impact on his points?


It might. I sure am not counting on that if I'm making a trade. And I'm not buying the line when the other team's GM suggests to me that he could be more than what he is there...

You just can't look at things from a best-case scenario when you're thinking about giving up significant assets for a player. It may not work out. He may have zero chemistry with our players. It might not just be the bad team that has made him -35 this year. The warts on his game may be larger than you think seeing him just occasionally. He may not fit in with a different system.

There's a lot of factors in play, but you shouldn't presume that a guy is going to show here better than he's shown somewhere else, and if you're making the deal, you should be looking at a fairly negative situation as the most likely so that you don't foolishly overpay.

Mike Peca turned out just to be a good defensive forward, not a guy who was going to explode offensively if asked to be a first center. Ryan Strome really does look to be a 30-35 point player, and so I am counting on OEL being only a 40 point defenceman who may have some defensive flaws in his game. If we pay accordingly and then he surpasses those expectations, then we've done well. If you pay based on him being an all-star, 55 point defenceman with McDavid then you're setting the player up to disappoint.



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 Re: Review: Arizona @ Edmonton (Game #66) [message #711240 is a reply to message #711238 ]
Tue, 06 March 2018 10:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Adam wrote on Tue, 06 March 2018 10:20

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 06 March 2018 10:07


So you don't think having OEL on a team with 2 top 10 scoring players will have an impact on his points?


It might. I sure am not counting on that if I'm making a trade. And I'm not buying the line when the other team's GM suggests to me that he could be more than what he is there...

You just can't look at things from a best-case scenario when you're thinking about giving up significant assets for a player. It may not work out. He may have zero chemistry with our players. It might not just be the bad team that has made him -35 this year. The warts on his game may be larger than you think seeing him just occasionally. He may not fit in with a different system.

There's a lot of factors in play, but you shouldn't presume that a guy is going to show here better than he's shown somewhere else, and if you're making the deal, you should be looking at a fairly negative situation as the most likely so that you don't foolishly overpay.

Mike Peca turned out just to be a good defensive forward, not a guy who was going to explode offensively if asked to be a first center. Ryan Strome really does look to be a 30-35 point player, and so I am counting on OEL being only a 40 point defenceman who may have some defensive flaws in his game. If we pay accordingly and then he surpasses those expectations, then we've done well. If you pay based on him being an all-star, 55 point defenceman with McDavid then you're setting the player up to disappoint.


That is supposed to be where having a good GM comes in. One thing is for sure, we need to improve this team somehow. GM needs to make the right moves and make damn good guesses on how players will fit in.

Man I wish this team didn't suck and was already in cap hell. So much risk involved in doing anything to try to move the needle now.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Review: Arizona @ Edmonton (Game #66) [message #711246 is a reply to message #711238 ]
Tue, 06 March 2018 11:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently online RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Tue, 06 March 2018 10:20

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 06 March 2018 10:07


So you don't think having OEL on a team with 2 top 10 scoring players will have an impact on his points?


It might. I sure am not counting on that if I'm making a trade. And I'm not buying the line when the other team's GM suggests to me that he could be more than what he is there...

You just can't look at things from a best-case scenario when you're thinking about giving up significant assets for a player. It may not work out. He may have zero chemistry with our players. It might not just be the bad team that has made him -35 this year. The warts on his game may be larger than you think seeing him just occasionally. He may not fit in with a different system.

There's a lot of factors in play, but you shouldn't presume that a guy is going to show here better than he's shown somewhere else, and if you're making the deal, you should be looking at a fairly negative situation as the most likely so that you don't foolishly overpay.

Mike Peca turned out just to be a good defensive forward, not a guy who was going to explode offensively if asked to be a first center. Ryan Strome really does look to be a 30-35 point player, and so I am counting on OEL being only a 40 point defenceman who may have some defensive flaws in his game. If we pay accordingly and then he surpasses those expectations, then we've done well. If you pay based on him being an all-star, 55 point defenceman with McDavid then you're setting the player up to disappoint.


It's not like I said he's a 40 pt dman now but on the Oilers he's a 70 pt guy. I said 50. 10 more pts. He will be playing on a team that will have a guy who will be winning or in the hunt for art ross trophies for the next 10 yrs and you don't think he might get a few extra assists because he banks the puck off the boards and watches McDavid walk around guys? Seriously? I had guys in here, you might have been one, ripping me when I would hammer on Yak not being a good player. I said Yak was a lousy offensive player as an Oilers and he's still a lousy offensive player to this day but argument I was ridiculed over was his "Pts per 60" playing with McDavid. All Yak did when he was playing with McDavid was stand in a spot and wait to get a pass so the odd time when he hit the net, he would score or bank pucks off the boards and watch McDavid walk around guys. So you think that OEL who's been at 40 pts or above for the last 5 seasons in a row an a decent PP producer on a terrible team with not a lot of offensive players around him, wouldn't benefit at all from having McDavid or Leon on his team? McDavid can make passes that 99.9% of players in the league can't but you don't think McDavid couldn't find OEL the odd time for a shot that no Yote could ever do? OR you don't think that OEL's assists might not go up slightly because he's feeding pucks to McDavid and McDavid who will be a 30-40 goal guy for the next 10 years can convert on passes that most players can't? You are kidding me right? He lead the team in scoring 2 years ago, he was second last year.

Taking scoring out for a second. Name 10 guys that are better than him? I got to maybe 8 and that was a stretch.



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 Re: Review: Arizona @ Edmonton (Game #66) [message #711250 is a reply to message #711246 ]
Tue, 06 March 2018 11:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently online Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 06 March 2018 11:09

Adam wrote on Tue, 06 March 2018 10:20

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 06 March 2018 10:07


So you don't think having OEL on a team with 2 top 10 scoring players will have an impact on his points?


It might. I sure am not counting on that if I'm making a trade. And I'm not buying the line when the other team's GM suggests to me that he could be more than what he is there...

You just can't look at things from a best-case scenario when you're thinking about giving up significant assets for a player. It may not work out. He may have zero chemistry with our players. It might not just be the bad team that has made him -35 this year. The warts on his game may be larger than you think seeing him just occasionally. He may not fit in with a different system.

There's a lot of factors in play, but you shouldn't presume that a guy is going to show here better than he's shown somewhere else, and if you're making the deal, you should be looking at a fairly negative situation as the most likely so that you don't foolishly overpay.

Mike Peca turned out just to be a good defensive forward, not a guy who was going to explode offensively if asked to be a first center. Ryan Strome really does look to be a 30-35 point player, and so I am counting on OEL being only a 40 point defenceman who may have some defensive flaws in his game. If we pay accordingly and then he surpasses those expectations, then we've done well. If you pay based on him being an all-star, 55 point defenceman with McDavid then you're setting the player up to disappoint.


It's not like I said he's a 40 pt dman now but on the Oilers he's a 70 pt guy. I said 50. 10 more pts. He will be playing on a team that will have a guy who will be winning or in the hunt for art ross trophies for the next 10 yrs and you don't think he might get a few extra assists because he banks the puck off the boards and watches McDavid walk around guys? Seriously? I had guys in here, you might have been one, ripping me when I would hammer on Yak not being a good player. I said Yak was a lousy offensive player as an Oilers and he's still a lousy offensive player to this day but argument I was ridiculed over was his "Pts per 60" playing with McDavid. All Yak did when he was playing with McDavid was stand in a spot and wait to get a pass so the odd time when he hit the net, he would score or bank pucks off the boards and watch McDavid walk around guys. So you think that OEL who's been at 40 pts or above for the last 5 seasons in a row an a decent PP producer on a terrible team with not a lot of offensive players around him, wouldn't benefit at all from having McDavid or Leon on his team? McDavid can make passes that 99.9% of players in the league can't but you don't think McDavid couldn't find OEL the odd time for a shot that no Yote could ever do? OR you don't think that OEL's assists might not go up slightly because he's feeding pucks to McDavid and McDavid who will be a 30-40 goal guy for the next 10 years can convert on passes that most players can't? You are kidding me right? He lead the team in scoring 2 years ago, he was second last year.

Taking scoring out for a second. Name 10 guys that are better than him? I got to maybe 8 and that was a stretch.


It's not that it's not possible. It's possible he's a 60 point guy with McDavid. What I'm saying is that when making trades, you can't assume a guy is going to be anything more than what he is now.

I do believe that Oilers management has done this for years. I think they think EXACTLY like you are. He looks so good on that team - imagine what he'd look like with our players? I don't think they do enough worst case planning, and I think they overpay for these perceived synergies that may or may not exist, and that certainly don't exist for the other team so why pay for them?

Savvy management is not doing these "what's he like with McDavid?" mental gymnastics, because A) it's not guaranteed he's anything more - Lucic is on pace for his lowest full-season point total since his rookie season despite playing a tonne of time with McDavid; and B) because you shouldn't pay for what you bring to the table. If the other team doesn't have a McDavid, so the player is a 40-point guy not a 50-point guy, you pay for him like a 40-point player.

Assume the worst, pay for what he is now, hope for the best after you acquire him. I swear, the Oilers always look at this backwards. They spend no time thinking about where players fit in, they assume anything they add is going to work out spectacularly, they pay a premium in almost every trade and they're constantly shocked when things go poorly..



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 Re: Review: Arizona @ Edmonton (Game #66) [message #711257 is a reply to message #711250 ]
Tue, 06 March 2018 12:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne  is currently offline PlusOne
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Adam wrote on Tue, 06 March 2018 12:33


What I'm saying is that when making trades, you can't assume a guy is going to be anything more than what he is now.

I do believe that Oilers management has done this for years. I think they think EXACTLY like you are. He looks so good on that team - imagine what he'd look like with our players? I don't think they do enough worst case planning, and I think they overpay for these perceived synergies that may or may not exist, and that certainly don't exist for the other team so why pay for them?

they pay a premium in almost every trade and they're constantly shocked when things go poorly..


This is to me summarizes my biggest issue with PC.
After the Hall trade he had quotes about Larsson's untapped offensive potential
After the Eberle trade he talked improvement that Strome would have
He, and some fans, seem to always have this best case scenario plan in mind.

It led to this now lost season.
He expected everyone that had a career year last year to replicate that or improve on it.
He expected to be largely injury free like last year
He expected the team to be in the playoffs no matter what while waiting for Sekera to return
He expected Sekera to step in to a top 4 role immediately
He expected to be able to use his cap space then to fill gaps on the team
He expected Talbot to play at an elite level for 70 games.
I am sure there are many more but it was a house of cards that MANY of us predicted. all it took was one of his overly optimistic expectations to be wrong and it came tumbling down.
In any business this is a sign of poor management. Nothing is a given and it is unpredictable but managing that risk and betting with the odds and not hope should be mandatory.

I feel like PC is the kind of guy who would bet on the Washington Generals to beat the Globetrotters because they are "due for a win"



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 Re: Review: Arizona @ Edmonton (Game #66) [message #711253 is a reply to message #711246 ]
Tue, 06 March 2018 11:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose is currently online Goose
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 06 March 2018 10:09

you don't think he might get a few extra assists because he banks the puck off the boards and watches McDavid walk around guys? Seriously?...stand in a spot and wait to get a pass so the odd time when he hit the net, he would score or bank pucks off the boards and watch McDavid walk around guys.


You're basically describing Lucic this year. He's played a lot with McDavid 5x5 and has the 3rd most PP time among Oiler forwards after McDavid and Draisaitl. And he's on pace for 32 5x5 points (which would be his 6th worst total since the 2010/11 season (8 years). And he's currently on pace for his lowest Pts/Game over the same period at 0.48.

I think the point that Adam is trying to make, is that if you just project that every player that comes in is going to be better than they were on their old team because of McDavid, then you're going to end up overpaying on every trade that you make.

We had this exact same argument over Ryan Strome. I was told many times, by you and others, that it would be fine and that Strome would have no problem replacing Eberle's production. Turns out that trading a top-line winger for a 3rd line centre isn't good value.

I think the same logic applies here. The Oilers absolutely should be trying to make trades to get better, and OEL definitely has the ability to do that. They just shouldn't be paying a price for him based on what they think he might be.



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 Re: Review: Arizona @ Edmonton (Game #66) [message #711256 is a reply to message #711253 ]
Tue, 06 March 2018 12:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently online RDOilerfan
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The Oilers could trade some package with Klefbom and a few other pieces to get Karlsson and then sign him for 7 mill a year and I think there are a few people in here who would complain about it. First they would complain about the Hall, Eberle and Reinhart trade because that's just what happens whenver any trade will be made for all time. Then they will complain about Russell and Lucic because that just what happens when a contract is signed. Then they will complain about how the Oilers "gave up" on Klefbom and sold low.

If the game being all about skating and puck moving and your dmen needing to lead rushes and score points. I personally think that 40+ point scoring, skate like the wind, move the puck really well, play both special teams and play 24+ mins a night dmen are pretty valuable and hard to get. But that is just me I guess.

[Updated on: Tue, 06 March 2018 12:05]


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 Re: Review: Arizona @ Edmonton (Game #66) [message #711258 is a reply to message #711256 ]
Tue, 06 March 2018 12:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NetBOG  is currently offline NetBOG
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 06 March 2018 12:01

The Oilers could trade some package with Klefbom and a few other pieces to get Karlsson and then sign him for 7 mill a year and I think there are a few people in here who would complain about it. First they would complain about the Hall, Eberle and Reinhart trade because that's just what happens whenver any trade will be made for all time. Then they will complain about Russell and Lucic because that just what happens when a contract is signed. Then they will complain about how the Oilers "gave up" on Klefbom and sold low.

If the game being all about skating and puck moving and your dmen needing to lead rushes and score points. I personally think that 40+ point scoring, skate like the wind, move the puck really well, play both special teams and play 24+ mins a night dmen are pretty valuable and hard to get. But that is just me I guess.


Hahahahaha, $7 mill. He's not going to cost a dime less than Connor.



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 Re: Review: Arizona @ Edmonton (Game #66) [message #711263 is a reply to message #711256 ]
Tue, 06 March 2018 12:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 06 March 2018 12:01

The Oilers could trade some package with Klefbom and a few other pieces to get Karlsson and then sign him for 7 mill a year and I think there are a few people in here who would complain about it. First they would complain about the Hall, Eberle and Reinhart trade because that's just what happens whenver any trade will be made for all time. Then they will complain about Russell and Lucic because that just what happens when a contract is signed. Then they will complain about how the Oilers "gave up" on Klefbom and sold low.

It seems pretty natural to complain about bad trades and bad signings when they were obviously bad at the time they happened and have shown to be bad as time goes on. Don't like complaining? Tough. You're going to get a lot of it here, not because Oilfans is a natural home to complainers, but because the team we follow is really bad at what they do. We complain about Reinhart, Hall, Eberle, Lucic, and Russell because they're most of the reason the Oilers are in 26th place this year. Had none of those things happened the team would be a lot better. A lot better. All it would have taken for the Oilers to be, I don't know, 20 places better in the standing is for the Oilers and Chiarelli to have done nothing BOLD over the last three years. Tambellini, Mr. Dithers himself, would have done a better job than Chia simply because he was too scared to do anything. So yeah, I'm complaining and rightfully so.

If the inevitable happens and Klefbom is traded I will complain, you're right. I will complain the second it happens because the Oilers track record show they'll screw it up and two years after the inevitable trade when circumstances show without a shadow of a doubt that myself and the rest of the complainers are right again, what will you do? Mock us because we're worried that Nurse is obviously being shopped and the return for him will be underwhelming? That's my guess because that's what your history and the Oilers history has shown will happen.

Your first point is an escalation to absurdity and also incorrect. The Oilers haven't hit a home run on a trade like that since the first Pronger trade, which if you recall, we didn't complain about here because it was obviously an awesome trade.



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 Re: Review: Arizona @ Edmonton (Game #66) [message #711266 is a reply to message #711256 ]
Tue, 06 March 2018 12:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently online Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 06 March 2018 12:01

The Oilers could trade some package with Klefbom and a few other pieces to get Karlsson and then sign him for 7 mill a year and I think there are a few people in here who would complain about it. First they would complain about the Hall, Eberle and Reinhart trade because that's just what happens whenver any trade will be made for all time. Then they will complain about Russell and Lucic because that just what happens when a contract is signed. Then they will complain about how the Oilers "gave up" on Klefbom and sold low.

If the game being all about skating and puck moving and your dmen needing to lead rushes and score points. I personally think that 40+ point scoring, skate like the wind, move the puck really well, play both special teams and play 24+ mins a night dmen are pretty valuable and hard to get. But that is just me I guess.


I don't think you are listening here. This isn't about being negative, and it's not saying that there's no value in Oliver Ekman-Larsson.

I'm saying that our management can't continue to be hopelessly optimistic like this. You can't assume that everything will work out and be sunshine and roses. Expect that everyone you get is going to be slightly worse than they were last year and act accordingly. If that's still a deal worth doing, then great. But the Oilers too often act as if it's a sure thing. Reinhart's worth paying two high picks for because if he takes a major step forward this year, we've got a nice top six defenceman. Strome is worth Eberle because he could score twice as much in a different situation. Lucic is worth the same money as Hall because he had 55 points last year with Kopitar, so with McDavid he might be a 70 point guy! They make the same errors again and again.

I think they actually think fairly similarly to you, and it's fine for you as a fan to think that way. It's not okay for GMs and team management to look at it that way.



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 Re: Review: Arizona @ Edmonton (Game #66) [message #711260 is a reply to message #711253 ]
Tue, 06 March 2018 12:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Goose wrote on Tue, 06 March 2018 11:38

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 06 March 2018 10:09

you don't think he might get a few extra assists because he banks the puck off the boards and watches McDavid walk around guys? Seriously?...stand in a spot and wait to get a pass so the odd time when he hit the net, he would score or bank pucks off the boards and watch McDavid walk around guys.


You're basically describing Lucic this year. He's played a lot with McDavid 5x5 and has the 3rd most PP time among Oiler forwards after McDavid and Draisaitl. And he's on pace for 32 5x5 points (which would be his 6th worst total since the 2010/11 season (8 years). And he's currently on pace for his lowest Pts/Game over the same period at 0.48.

I think the point that Adam is trying to make, is that if you just project that every player that comes in is going to be better than they were on their old team because of McDavid, then you're going to end up overpaying on every trade that you make.

We had this exact same argument over Ryan Strome. I was told many times, by you and others, that it would be fine and that Strome would have no problem replacing Eberle's production. Turns out that trading a top-line winger for a 3rd line centre isn't good value.

I think the same logic applies here. The Oilers absolutely should be trying to make trades to get better, and OEL definitely has the ability to do that. They just shouldn't be paying a price for him based on what they think he might be.


I'm pretty sure there is only 1 management group in the league that pays a price based on what their most optimistic view of what the player could be on their team would be.

Unfortunately, that 1 group may very well be the one that runs our team.



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 Re: Review: Arizona @ Edmonton (Game #66) [message #711219 is a reply to message #711212 ]
Tue, 06 March 2018 09:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently online RDOilerfan
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Skoobz wrote on Tue, 06 March 2018 08:56

Hot take: Ekman-Larsson isn't that good, and the overpay the Oilers will make for him isn't going to be worth it.

Really? You would probably be one of the very few people that would say that. Most people that cover the NHL say he's pretty awesome. What are you basing it on, his +/-?

He has 9 goals and 33 pts in 65 games on a team who's scoring leader is a rookie with 46 pts. Keller might hit 55 points if he is lucky, OEL will probably end up with teens in goals and over 40 pts. Arizona is the lowest scoring team in the league and is void of a whole lot of skill. What would his numbers be on a team like the Oilers with some talent? He'd probably be well over 50 pts with the Oilers. Did you see the play he made on McDavid where McDavid thought he was by him but OEL was able to catch him enough to knock the puck off his stick. How many guys are good enough skaters and players to do that? Maybe Doughty, I am struggling to think of anyone else. He plays both special teams, skates extremely well. Moves the puck really well. Has a bomb, puts up points, can run a PP. Plays a ton of minutes and is really good in both ends. Other than being left handed, he is everything the Oilers need. He's got a bad +/-, ignore that and you'd love him. Take whatever Dman you want, put him on the Coyotes and his +/- would suck because they would play all the time, your team sucks, they don't score much and you could do nothing wrong what so ever but get a - for just standing on the ice.

To get him, I see it as a package involving Nuge and Klefbom with OEL and probably some small piece coming back and I would be OK with that. I really like Nuge, I would be sorry to see him go but he to me is an OK second line center. He's decent defensively and capable of putting up 50 pts but I don't see him as being capable of scoring much more than that. Everyone said he was having this amazing year. It was good but if you do the math, he was prorating at just over 50 pts/ He probably makes 1 mill more than he should. In Klefbom, he looks to be a good second pairing dman. He is a good skater, has good size and decent offensive ability. I had high hopes after last year but this year, he looks like a guy that can be on your second unit PP, be capable of in the 30's in points while playing second pairing mins. IF you play him more than 20 mins, I think you are in trouble because his defensive game doesn't look to be where it should be and I don't think he will be a guy who is a high end defender.



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 Re: Review: Arizona @ Edmonton (Game #66) [message #711224 is a reply to message #711219 ]
Tue, 06 March 2018 09:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NZ Oiler Fan  is currently offline NZ Oiler Fan
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 06 March 2018 09:26

How many guys are good enough skaters and players to do that? Maybe Doughty, I am struggling to think of anyone else.


Erik Karlsson immediately springs to mind as another, but yeah, OEL is awesome. Would absolutely love him on this team. Has a ridiculously friendly cap hit too.

Asking price will be high though.
Found an article mentioning what that asking price was (at least, what it was back in Jan anyway, not sure if it's changed now):
Quote:

According to Garrioch, “not only do the Coyotes want two high-end players”… “they’re also asking for a first-round pick.”




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 Re: Review: Arizona @ Edmonton (Game #66) [message #711236 is a reply to message #711224 ]
Tue, 06 March 2018 10:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently online RDOilerfan
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NZ Oiler Fan wrote on Tue, 06 March 2018 09:48

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 06 March 2018 09:26

How many guys are good enough skaters and players to do that? Maybe Doughty, I am struggling to think of anyone else.


Erik Karlsson immediately springs to mind as another, but yeah, OEL is awesome. Would absolutely love him on this team. Has a ridiculously friendly cap hit too.

Asking price will be high though.
Found an article mentioning what that asking price was (at least, what it was back in Jan anyway, not sure if it's changed now):
Quote:

According to Garrioch, “not only do the Coyotes want two high-end players”… “they’re also asking for a first-round pick.”




Right, I totally forgot Karlsson. My bad.

The asking price is going to be high no doubt but are their 10 guys better than him?
Karlsson, Hedman, Doughty, Josi, Burns but he is way older, Subban maybe, Pietrangelo is on a superior team so he's on par with him, offensively Klingberg scores more.

After that, I am struggling to think of who I would have above OEL. I just scrolled by all the team names and tried to think who is on their defense so maybe I forgot a guy but I don't think I missed that many.

[Updated on: Tue, 06 March 2018 10:15]


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 Re: Review: Arizona @ Edmonton (Game #66) [message #711221 is a reply to message #711212 ]
Tue, 06 March 2018 09:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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That play on McDavid when he was about to blow by him was enough evidence the guy knows what he is doing. I am in on OEL.


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 Re: Review: Arizona @ Edmonton (Game #66) [message #711216 is a reply to message #711183 ]
Tue, 06 March 2018 09:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rocksteady  is currently offline Rocksteady
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I'm sorry but Russell let the puck hit him time and time again last night, some of it was intentional.. but in the end that guy is a warrior for standing in front of the puck and let it hit him anywhere on his body. He doesn't care, he'll stand in front of a rager of a shot and he'll not even blink.

If you're talking about his positioning and hockey sense, that's another discussion but he can block a puck man..

Lucic got his goal, yay. He needed that.

...but you let a 2 goal cushion evaporate.. with a kinda win against the lowly Coyotes? I've seen that story too many times.






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 Re: Review: Arizona @ Edmonton (Game #66) [message #711223 is a reply to message #711216 ]
Tue, 06 March 2018 09:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
overdue  is currently offline overdue
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Rocksteady wrote on Tue, 06 March 2018 09:22

I'm sorry but Russell let the puck hit him time and time again last night, some of it was intentional.. but in the end that guy is a warrior for standing in front of the puck and let it hit him anywhere on his body. He doesn't care, he'll stand in front of a rager of a shot and he'll not even blink.

If you're talking about his positioning and hockey sense, that's another discussion but he can block a puck man..

Lucic got his goal, yay. He needed that.

...but you let a 2 goal cushion evaporate.. with a kinda win against the lowly Coyotes? I've seen that story too many times.






Russel is a warrior. Yeah he makes some mistakes but who on the team doesn't? I think they said he leads the league in blocked shots. Lucic got his goal but didn't see much else there to convince me he deserves to be anywhere above the 3rd line.



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 Re: Review: Arizona @ Edmonton (Game #66) [message #711235 is a reply to message #711223 ]
Tue, 06 March 2018 10:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently online Adam
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overdue wrote on Tue, 06 March 2018 09:46


Russel is a warrior. Yeah he makes some mistakes but who on the team doesn't? I think they said he leads the league in blocked shots. Lucic got his goal but didn't see much else there to convince me he deserves to be anywhere above the 3rd line.



My garage door growing up got hit with a lot of shots too...doesn't mean I'd pay it $4MM a year. I think blocked shots as a stat is overrated. Great that you're willing to sacrifice the body, but there's some extenuating circumstances that inflate Russell's numbers:

1) He isn't good at completing passes. We saw this on goal #3 last night with his weak chip up the boards which was picked off. He fails to clear the puck often, and really fails to clear with possession, so he ends up spending a lot of time in his own zone with the other team in possession of the puck.

2) He gives up the blueline. He always wants to stay in position to block shots, but as a result, he's not aggressive on puck carriers. He backs away and gives them all kinds of time and space. If they shoot it's all good. If they fake or pass, it's less good. And when he was on Calgary playing against McDavid, you saw what happened when he was confronted with speed. He's got poor gap control so a fast skater can make him look foolish.

3) He flops like a fish. He goes down to try to block shots constantly. That's fine again if they're just shooting, but when someone does something even slightly more creative, we get another gif of him doing snow angels while they score.

Good ol' Alberta boy, grew up around the rodeo...not worth what he's being paid, and on an unmoveable contract too.



"This team needs an enema!"
#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan #FireBobbyNicks

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 Re: Review: Arizona @ Edmonton (Game #66) [message #711293 is a reply to message #711235 ]
Tue, 06 March 2018 17:53 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
overdue  is currently offline overdue
Messages: 335
Registered: October 2014
Location: Creston

No Cups

I didn't say I thought he was worth 4 mil a season or that immovable contract but he does show up to play every night and gives you what he's got. The contract is the manager's fault and problem.


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