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 Speculation » The craziest hypothesis of all time.
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 The craziest hypothesis of all time. [message #706710]
Mon, 08 January 2018 06:35 Go to next message
Fupa  is currently offline Fupa
Messages: 1
Registered: May 2012

No Cups

Give MacT and KLowe back the team.

I know this sounds insane, and I am a huge supporter of McLellan. But MacT did arguably better (and worse) things with a team that was built by Lowe. Assets were managed better. And these guys truly care (and they aren’t going anywhere soon, as much as people might want them too).

I might sound like a troll, but this might actually be the time to let them try to do their thing.... if you take the pros and cons of their era and weigh them to this era.... it’s a no brainer. We’ve taken backward steps aside of Talbot. (This does not include Tambellini, and I do get Eakins was a MacT Hire when he was gm)

I loved the Kruger days and the Nelson days and think they got the short end of the straw.

Read this with an open mind. Again, a hypothesis and when you consider the track records it’s an interesting discussion. Especially when we were all complaining about the MacBlender and now it seemed to be regular occurrence.

I’ve been in the background reading Oilfans for the past, jeez, I don’t even know how many years and even remember having to renew my account after the crash.

I was a huge fan of both the McLellan and Chiarelli hirings. And gave it my all. I still support McLellan. And I even supported the Hall trade, considering Larson was our best Overall D and still could be for years to come. (Not including homegrown talent, like Nurse)

Arguably, still the most recent best season we can relate to is 2006. Since, we have shown we have the tools but no longer know how to use them.

Again, a hypothesis meant for discussion and thought. Please don’t roast me on this.... haha facts are welcome!

I’m not a MacT or KLowe Fan boy, just thought this would be a good discussion.



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 Re: The craziest hypothesis of all time. [message #706722 is a reply to message #706710 ]
Mon, 08 January 2018 10:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ragnarok73  is currently offline Ragnarok73
Messages: 4791
Registered: February 2011

4 Cups

No.


"There's no greater springboard to development than failure." - Craig MacTavish, April 13/15.

5-14-6-1

"Sabres think the suck is their ally? They merely adopted the suck. The Oilers were born in it...molded by it."

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 Re: The craziest hypothesis of all time. [message #706725 is a reply to message #706722 ]
Mon, 08 January 2018 10:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Location: AB Highway 100

5 Cups

Ragnarok73 wrote on Mon, 08 January 2018 10:54

No.

But it might work this time.



Peter Chiarelli, General Disappointment.

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 Re: The craziest hypothesis of all time. [message #706732 is a reply to message #706725 ]
Mon, 08 January 2018 12:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jds308  is currently offline jds308
Messages: 893
Registered: September 2007
Location: Summerland

No Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 08 January 2018 09:56

Ragnarok73 wrote on Mon, 08 January 2018 10:54

No.

But it might work this time.


It is after all the cyclical nature of the business.



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 Re: The craziest hypothesis of all time. [message #706740 is a reply to message #706732 ]
Mon, 08 January 2018 12:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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5 Cups

jds308 wrote on Mon, 08 January 2018 12:00

CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 08 January 2018 09:56

Ragnarok73 wrote on Mon, 08 January 2018 10:54

No.

But it might work this time.


It is after all the cyclical nature of the business.


Friend, that is a tier one comment.



Peter Chiarelli, General Disappointment.

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 Re: The craziest hypothesis of all time. [message #706757 is a reply to message #706740 ]
Mon, 08 January 2018 13:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jds308  is currently offline jds308
Messages: 893
Registered: September 2007
Location: Summerland

No Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 08 January 2018 11:21

jds308 wrote on Mon, 08 January 2018 12:00

CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 08 January 2018 09:56

Ragnarok73 wrote on Mon, 08 January 2018 10:54

No.

But it might work this time.


It is after all the cyclical nature of the business.


Friend, that is a tier one comment.


Well, according to the official rules I'm clearly a tier 3 fan. I don't live in Edmonton and therefore don't buy tickets or attend games live. I own only knock-off jerseys, and very little actual NHL licensed merchandise. I am however a Rogers wireless customer, giving me NHL Game Center so I don't have to find"alternative" ways of watching this pee-wee team play, so there's that I guess....



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 Re: The craziest hypothesis of all time. [message #706774 is a reply to message #706725 ]
Mon, 08 January 2018 16:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ragnarok73  is currently offline Ragnarok73
Messages: 4791
Registered: February 2011

4 Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 08 January 2018 10:56

Ragnarok73 wrote on Mon, 08 January 2018 10:54

No.

But it might work this time.

No.



"There's no greater springboard to development than failure." - Craig MacTavish, April 13/15.

5-14-6-1

"Sabres think the suck is their ally? They merely adopted the suck. The Oilers were born in it...molded by it."

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 Re: The craziest hypothesis of all time. [message #706727 is a reply to message #706722 ]
Mon, 08 January 2018 11:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
Messages: 30
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

But there's no greater springboard to development than failure!


You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: The craziest hypothesis of all time. [message #706745 is a reply to message #706710 ]
Mon, 08 January 2018 12:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 7691
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

I still don't think that Lowe is qualified to do the job (although I'll concede he was no worse than Tambellini, MacT and Chiarelli). MacTavish was fine as a coach I think, but it's been a long time, and I think it doesn't look good to bring a guy who was a disaster as a GM, who's somehow stayed in the organization nonetheless, back in to the fold as the coach.

That said, the one thing I like about this proposal would be that it would put those two back on the firing line. At this point, I fully expect them to survive any changes made to the organization's management following this season, and I don't really think they deserve to.

I do not think either of them would accept those jobs back, for the exact same reason. I think they are aware of their limitations to some extent - they've both continued to be part of hockey ops through all of this (despite sometimes saying they weren't), and they've been unable to help anyone else make this team successful. To go back to the front of the line and actually risk their jobs again? I don't see them doing that. Better to stay in the shadows and keep collecting cheques.



"This team needs an enema!"
#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan #FireBobbyNicks

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 Re: The craziest hypothesis of all time. [message #706756 is a reply to message #706745 ]
Mon, 08 January 2018 13:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently online Kr55
Messages: 8765
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Mon, 08 January 2018 12:33

I still don't think that Lowe is qualified to do the job (although I'll concede he was no worse than Tambellini, MacT and Chiarelli). MacTavish was fine as a coach I think, but it's been a long time, and I think it doesn't look good to bring a guy who was a disaster as a GM, who's somehow stayed in the organization nonetheless, back in to the fold as the coach.

That said, the one thing I like about this proposal would be that it would put those two back on the firing line. At this point, I fully expect them to survive any changes made to the organization's management following this season, and I don't really think they deserve to.

I do not think either of them would accept those jobs back, for the exact same reason. I think they are aware of their limitations to some extent - they've both continued to be part of hockey ops through all of this (despite sometimes saying they weren't), and they've been unable to help anyone else make this team successful. To go back to the front of the line and actually risk their jobs again? I don't see them doing that. Better to stay in the shadows and keep collecting cheques.


This org needs new blood. Too much to get into, but other orgs are doing pretty state of the art stuff. Full analytics departments, not just about on ice events, but also about fitness and conditioning (it's gross to think about but the Leafs are really on the cutting edge now of basically everything there is to do with preparing their players for games). The Oilers on the other hand buy info from groups that put Russell as the #2D in the NHL at creating controlled zone entries (just behind Karlsson), lol. I don't know for sure obviously if we are doing any groundbreaking stuff on fitness and conditioning, but with all the old school set in their ways guys running this org, I think it's a pretty good guess to say no. There's also a clear lack of understanding about what is needed in a lineup in todays NHL in the Oilers org.

I would have to go with, no freakin way, to Lowe and MacT getting full control of this team again. This org needs to finally get serious and bring in some new ways of thinking.

[Updated on: Mon, 08 January 2018 13:05]


"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: The craziest hypothesis of all time. [message #706766 is a reply to message #706710 ]
Mon, 08 January 2018 13:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Boniman  is currently offline Boniman
Messages: 524
Registered: August 2005
Location: In your mom's room

No Cups

Kevin did you sign up for Oilfans?



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 Re: The craziest hypothesis of all time. [message #706978 is a reply to message #706766 ]
Thu, 11 January 2018 00:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
HamBlaster  is currently offline HamBlaster
Messages: 967
Registered: June 2007

No Cups

No... however I've heard the Oilers management group has signed up for a mass enema. It's a bonding experience.



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 Re: The craziest hypothesis of all time. [message #706979 is a reply to message #706978 ]
Thu, 11 January 2018 00:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently online Kr55
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Registered: May 2002
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6 Cups

HamBlaster wrote on Thu, 11 January 2018 00:23

No... however I've heard the Oilers management group has signed up for a mass enema. It's a bonding experience.



Hope the coffee is extra hot!



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: The craziest hypothesis of all time. [message #707012 is a reply to message #706710 ]
Thu, 11 January 2018 14:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
K.McC#24  is currently offline K.McC#24
Messages: 2386
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2 Cups

With due respect.....two possibilities from Fupa, has to either be a Flames fan or just has degenerated this far.

The opening line aside, I move down to "I loved the Kruger days and the Nelson days". Jesus wept.



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 Re: The craziest hypothesis of all time. [message #707020 is a reply to message #707012 ]
Thu, 11 January 2018 15:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

K.McC#24 wrote on Thu, 11 January 2018 14:38

With due respect.....two possibilities from Fupa, has to either be a Flames fan or just has degenerated this far.

The opening line aside, I move down to "I loved the Kruger days and the Nelson days". Jesus wept.


Krueger days DID feel full of potential at least! They were in a playoff spot with 3 weeks left in the season...first time in 4 years they'd even been in the race past December 1. Team was pretty exciting. Hall was 9th in scoring in the league with 50 points in 45 games. Yakupov's 31 points (48 games) were the best of any rookie that year. Justin Schultz had 27 points (also 48 games) as a rookie defenceman! Gagner had 38 points. Eberle 37. Dubnyk was a top-15 goalie. And we accomplished all that with Nugent-Hopkins nursing a serious injury all season, and Hemsky playing on a broken foot for a month.

There were some red flags, some of the players being allowed to slag Renney that year was not ideal, and Whitney was pretty clear that the team had A) approached him early to tell him his role and explain to him that his play, no matter how good, wouldn't dictate what his future role would be and B) that there were two sets of rules on the team for different players.

But for the most part, it felt like maybe that late rough patch was just a learning lesson for a young team on the rise...

And then came that press conference...



"This team needs an enema!"
#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan #FireBobbyNicks

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 Re: The craziest hypothesis of all time. [message #707021 is a reply to message #707020 ]
Thu, 11 January 2018 15:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Location: AB Highway 100

5 Cups

Adam wrote on Thu, 11 January 2018 15:07

K.McC#24 wrote on Thu, 11 January 2018 14:38

With due respect.....two possibilities from Fupa, has to either be a Flames fan or just has degenerated this far.

The opening line aside, I move down to "I loved the Kruger days and the Nelson days". Jesus wept.


Krueger days DID feel full of potential at least! They were in a playoff spot with 3 weeks left in the season...first time in 4 years they'd even been in the race past December 1. Team was pretty exciting. Hall was 9th in scoring in the league with 50 points in 45 games. Yakupov's 31 points (48 games) were the best of any rookie that year. Justin Schultz had 27 points (also 48 games) as a rookie defenceman! Gagner had 38 points. Eberle 37. Dubnyk was a top-15 goalie. And we accomplished all that with Nugent-Hopkins nursing a serious injury all season, and Hemsky playing on a broken foot for a month.

There were some red flags, some of the players being allowed to slag Renney that year was not ideal, and Whitney was pretty clear that the team had A) approached him early to tell him his role and explain to him that his play, no matter how good, wouldn't dictate what his future role would be and B) that there were two sets of rules on the team for different players.

But for the most part, it felt like maybe that late rough patch was just a learning lesson for a young team on the rise...

And then came that press conference...

Sigh. That was when hope died. I knew Lowe was a horrible general manager as far back as 2008 (in a post that MJ has now purged - grumble) but the Krueger year really felt like the future the Oilers had promised was real. Schultz came and was good. The number ones were a ballet dancing to a symphony on the power play. And they were competitive. Then hope died. The press conference thread should be archived or frequently bumped so it's never deleted.



Peter Chiarelli, General Disappointment.

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 Re: The craziest hypothesis of all time. [message #707028 is a reply to message #707021 ]
Thu, 11 January 2018 16:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 7691
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6 Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 11 January 2018 15:12


Sigh. That was when hope died. I knew Lowe was a horrible general manager as far back as 2008 (in a post that MJ has now purged - grumble) but the Krueger year really felt like the future the Oilers had promised was real. Schultz came and was good. The number ones were a ballet dancing to a symphony on the power play. And they were competitive. Then hope died. The press conference thread should be archived or frequently bumped so it's never deleted.


http://oilfans.com/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=41645&pr evloaded=1&rid=1325&SQ=937596aa8b66e8716565fcf779eaf c85&start=0

So much gold in them there hills...

The Darth Vader jokes...CrusaderPi lamenting a SEVEN year run of bad hockey...

[Updated on: Thu, 11 January 2018 16:24]


"This team needs an enema!"
#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan #FireBobbyNicks

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 Re: The craziest hypothesis of all time. [message #707036 is a reply to message #707028 ]
Thu, 11 January 2018 17:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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6 Cups

Also:

http://oilfans.com/forum/index.php?t=msg&goto=596544& ;rid=1325&SQ=ccec8c068e0290db9280f930c8960064#msg_596544

http://oilfans.com/forum/index.php?t=msg&goto=598172& ;rid=1325&SQ=ccec8c068e0290db9280f930c8960064#msg_598172



"This team needs an enema!"
#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan #FireBobbyNicks

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 Re: The craziest hypothesis of all time. [message #707049 is a reply to message #707036 ]
Thu, 11 January 2018 20:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently online Kr55
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Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Thu, 11 January 2018 17:41

Also:

http://oilfans.com/forum/index.php?t=msg&goto=596544& ;amp ;amp ;rid=1325&SQ=ccec8c068e0290db9280f930c8960064#msg_596544

http://oilfans.com/forum/index.php?t=msg&goto=598172& ;amp ;amp ;rid=1325&SQ=ccec8c068e0290db9280f930c8960064#msg_598172



lol, this guy fails:

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 29 April 2013 15:47



Doesn't sound like it will take too long for us to pass some meaningful judgment on MacT. 6-8 new players, we can consult the advanced stats folks and either boo or cheer before the puck even drops next season icon_wink.

Count me in as taking little sips of the Kool-Aid for now.



No matter how ridiculous and pathetic things are, the need for a little hope always lingers. In me at least.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: The craziest hypothesis of all time. [message #707022 is a reply to message #707020 ]
Thu, 11 January 2018 15:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently online Kr55
Messages: 8765
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Thu, 11 January 2018 15:07

K.McC#24 wrote on Thu, 11 January 2018 14:38

With due respect.....two possibilities from Fupa, has to either be a Flames fan or just has degenerated this far.

The opening line aside, I move down to "I loved the Kruger days and the Nelson days". Jesus wept.


Krueger days DID feel full of potential at least! They were in a playoff spot with 3 weeks left in the season...first time in 4 years they'd even been in the race past December 1. Team was pretty exciting. Hall was 9th in scoring in the league with 50 points in 45 games. Yakupov's 31 points (48 games) were the best of any rookie that year. Justin Schultz had 27 points (also 48 games) as a rookie defenceman! Gagner had 38 points. Eberle 37. Dubnyk was a top-15 goalie. And we accomplished all that with Nugent-Hopkins nursing a serious injury all season, and Hemsky playing on a broken foot for a month.

There were some red flags, some of the players being allowed to slag Renney that year was not ideal, and Whitney was pretty clear that the team had A) approached him early to tell him his role and explain to him that his play, no matter how good, wouldn't dictate what his future role would be and B) that there were two sets of rules on the team for different players.

But for the most part, it felt like maybe that late rough patch was just a learning lesson for a young team on the rise...

And then came that press conference...


After the press conference came "The Interview".

MacT hanging off Eakins' every word

https://i.giphy.com/media/8v9ZBs3tliKPe/giphy.webp



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: The craziest hypothesis of all time. [message #707259 is a reply to message #707020 ]
Sun, 14 January 2018 21:42 Go to previous message
K.McC#24  is currently offline K.McC#24
Messages: 2386
Registered: March 2004
Location: ALBERTA

2 Cups

Adam wrote on Thu, 11 January 2018 15:07

K.McC#24 wrote on Thu, 11 January 2018 14:38

With due respect.....two possibilities from Fupa, has to either be a Flames fan or just has degenerated this far.

The opening line aside, I move down to "I loved the Kruger days and the Nelson days". Jesus wept.


Krueger days DID feel full of potential at least! They were in a playoff spot with 3 weeks left in the season...first time in 4 years they'd even been in the race past December 1. Team was pretty exciting. Hall was 9th in scoring in the league with 50 points in 45 games. Yakupov's 31 points (48 games) were the best of any rookie that year. Justin Schultz had 27 points (also 48 games) as a rookie defenceman! Gagner had 38 points. Eberle 37. Dubnyk was a top-15 goalie. And we accomplished all that with Nugent-Hopkins nursing a serious injury all season, and Hemsky playing on a broken foot for a month.

There were some red flags, some of the players being allowed to slag Renney that year was not ideal, and Whitney was pretty clear that the team had A) approached him early to tell him his role and explain to him that his play, no matter how good, wouldn't dictate what his future role would be and B) that there were two sets of rules on the team for different players.

But for the most part, it felt like maybe that late rough patch was just a learning lesson for a young team on the rise...

And then came that press conference...


NO. It's just sad that someone has to present the Kruger/Nelson eras as something good. Something slightly less shi-ty? OK, I'll accept that, it shows where the Oilers have been and where they are again to hold something very substandard up as 'the good ol' days'.

Shades of craptastic.

[Updated on: Sun, 14 January 2018 21:43]


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 Re: The craziest hypothesis of all time. [message #707054 is a reply to message #706710 ]
Thu, 11 January 2018 21:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stemhovlichski  is currently offline stemhovlichski
Messages: 426
Registered: March 2006
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

I'd like to welcome Mr. Katz to the group.

How's the weather on the golf course?





Restored: "We're sucking hind banana here." - Pat Quinn, Jan 18, 2010


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