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 Chia says Hello World [message #703909]
Tue, 28 November 2017 10:21 Go to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2m0XmZY2mI&feature=em-l ss

6 mins in right now. In a work call, so can't listen to it yet.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
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"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Chia says Hello World [message #703910 is a reply to message #703909 ]
Tue, 28 November 2017 10:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 28 November 2017 09:21

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2m0XmZY2mI&feature=em-l ss

6 mins in right now. In a work call, so can't listen to it yet.


First question when I jumped on, (from Matheson I think):
"would your team be better if your #1 defenceman was playing like a #1 and your goalie was playing like a #1 goalie".

Good hardball question there Edmonton media. Chiarelli basically agreed with him and said yes, they would be better. Nothing ever changes.



Wins in a row the Oilers need to get to playoff pace: 9 games

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 Re: Chia says Hello World [message #703915 is a reply to message #703910 ]
Tue, 28 November 2017 10:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Goose wrote on Tue, 28 November 2017 10:26

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 28 November 2017 09:21

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2m0XmZY2mI&feature=em-l ss

6 mins in right now. In a work call, so can't listen to it yet.


First question when I jumped on, (from Matheson I think):
"would your team be better if your #1 defenceman was playing like a #1 and your goalie was playing like a #1 goalie".

Good hardball question there Edmonton media. Chiarelli basically agreed with him and said yes, they would be better. Nothing ever changes.


I really get tired of that question being asked.
#1 there aren't that many dmen that you would put in that category in the league.
#2 Most teams don't trade them.
#3 if they are available it will cost you a ton. Subban was out there 2 years ago. To get him, it took trading a allstar, Olympic, norris conversation dman in Weber. Now I think the Preds won the deal but still, the Oilers didn't have that. The reported asked from the Oilers was Leon, a dman and their #4. How can they afford that.

In most situations, you have to draft and develop these #1 dmen.



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 Re: Chia says Hello World [message #703911 is a reply to message #703909 ]
Tue, 28 November 2017 10:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
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Then Spector asks a question about chemistry, basically implying that "chemistry" (or lack of), is the reason for the team's struggles. Everyone letting Chiarelli off the hook here.


Wins in a row the Oilers need to get to playoff pace: 9 games

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 Re: Chia says Hello World [message #703993 is a reply to message #703911 ]
Tue, 28 November 2017 18:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
overdue  is currently offline overdue
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Apparently if you win a lot you have chemistry and if you lose a lot you don't!


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 Re: Chia says Hello World [message #703914 is a reply to message #703909 ]
Tue, 28 November 2017 10:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Steve  is currently offline Steve
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I only caught the last minute. I heard him say "I don't know" quite a bit. That's concerning to me.


"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."

- Calvin

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 Re: Chia says Hello World [message #703916 is a reply to message #703909 ]
Tue, 28 November 2017 10:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Steve  is currently offline Steve
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They should have asked why he didn't bring in a proven 2/3RW and 2RD in the summer.


"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."

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 Re: Chia says Hello World [message #703917 is a reply to message #703916 ]
Tue, 28 November 2017 10:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Steve wrote on Tue, 28 November 2017 10:37

They should have asked why he didn't bring in a proven 2/3RW and 2RD in the summer.

Ahahahahaha. Oh look at Mr. Hindsight wanting to ask the tough questions over here. No one, literally no one, could have predicted the Oilers would have trouble with wing and defensive depth during the first two months of this season. No one. Chia wasn't worried about it. The REAL NEWS media wasn't worried about it. The boys in the room weren't worried about it. That means no one was worried.



Peter Chiarelli, General Disappointment.

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 Re: Chia says Hello World [message #703919 is a reply to message #703916 ]
Tue, 28 November 2017 10:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Steve wrote on Tue, 28 November 2017 10:37

They should have asked why he didn't bring in a proven 2/3RW and 2RD in the summer.


Like who?

I don't necessarily disagree with you and I don't want to sound like I am sticking up for Chia because the roster he built is clearly not good enough. But people keep saying what the Oilers should have done in the offseason, what you suggested being the main things. So who was out there?

The Oilers need a right shot dman that can skate, move the puck, defend and hopefully provide a little offense. Who was available that fills those shoes? Hamonic was available but he's not the greatest skater, doesn't move the puck that well, provides no offense and his defending has been lacking. He's been brutal for the Flames so he doesn't help the Oilers in my books other than he shoots right.

The Oilers could have kept Eberle for 1 more year. Sure. But if you read what he said in his article about the media being too hard on him, his confidence was shot and he needed a change. So is anyone confident he would have been any good here given he wanted out? I'm not. So who else could you have brought in to replace Eberle?

So while I think in hindsight, the Oilers and more correctly Chia should have did more to the roster, I don't know who they could have brought in and I am fearful of what it would have cost.



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 Re: Chia says Hello World [message #703928 is a reply to message #703919 ]
Tue, 28 November 2017 11:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 28 November 2017 09:48

Steve wrote on Tue, 28 November 2017 10:37

They should have asked why he didn't bring in a proven 2/3RW and 2RD in the summer.


Like who?

I don't necessarily disagree with you and I don't want to sound like I am sticking up for Chia because the roster he built is clearly not good enough. But people keep saying what the Oilers should have done in the offseason, what you suggested being the main things. So who was out there?

The Oilers need a right shot dman that can skate, move the puck, defend and hopefully provide a little offense. Who was available that fills those shoes? Hamonic was available but he's not the greatest skater, doesn't move the puck that well, provides no offense and his defending has been lacking. He's been brutal for the Flames so he doesn't help the Oilers in my books other than he shoots right.

The Oilers could have kept Eberle for 1 more year. Sure. But if you read what he said in his article about the media being too hard on him, his confidence was shot and he needed a change. So is anyone confident he would have been any good here given he wanted out? I'm not. So who else could you have brought in to replace Eberle?

So while I think in hindsight, the Oilers and more correctly Chia should have did more to the roster, I don't know who they could have brought in and I am fearful of what it would have cost.


Hjalmarsson was available. Not a right shot, but he plays the right side, quite well. Same cap hit as Russell and only signed for 2 more years, so in a couple years, if Benning is ready to step up you can just walk away.

I think you have a point on Eberle maybe not playing as well here as he is currently playing in NY. I think that points to broader problem with the Oilers then, and they should probably be re-examining how they handle their players. But even if we concede that he wouldn't be scoring as much here, his "poor" year last year is still better than any of the Oilers RW are currently on pace for (outside of Draisaitl, and I think we all agree we don't want Drai playing RW anyways).

- Vanek has 5 goals and 16 points for the Canucks. That would put him 4th on the Oilers.
- Heck, Drew Stafford has 5 goals for NJ and only makes $800k
- Vrbata is ancient, but has 11 points in 19 games for Florida (would be 6th on the Oilers)

Those are just he UFA's I can think of. But I don't think we should assume that those were the only guys available. The price matters of course, but just because a trade didn't happen, doesn't mean that someone couldn't have been had. Like what would have been the cost to get a guy like Marchessault from Florida before they lost him in the expansion draft? Not nothing, but probably a lot less than you can get him now. I think there were definitely missed opportunities this summer and Chiarelli doesn't seem to even think it was an issue. Gregor asked him about it explicitly in his press conference (if he was planning to use the cap space in the summer and it just didn't work out?), and Chia's response was basically that you have to look beyond this year which leads me to believe he didn't really try to use that cap space at all.



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 Re: Chia says Hello World [message #703941 is a reply to message #703928 ]
Tue, 28 November 2017 14:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Goose wrote on Tue, 28 November 2017 11:15

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 28 November 2017 09:48

Steve wrote on Tue, 28 November 2017 10:37

They should have asked why he didn't bring in a proven 2/3RW and 2RD in the summer.


Like who?

I don't necessarily disagree with you and I don't want to sound like I am sticking up for Chia because the roster he built is clearly not good enough. But people keep saying what the Oilers should have done in the offseason, what you suggested being the main things. So who was out there?

The Oilers need a right shot dman that can skate, move the puck, defend and hopefully provide a little offense. Who was available that fills those shoes? Hamonic was available but he's not the greatest skater, doesn't move the puck that well, provides no offense and his defending has been lacking. He's been brutal for the Flames so he doesn't help the Oilers in my books other than he shoots right.

The Oilers could have kept Eberle for 1 more year. Sure. But if you read what he said in his article about the media being too hard on him, his confidence was shot and he needed a change. So is anyone confident he would have been any good here given he wanted out? I'm not. So who else could you have brought in to replace Eberle?

So while I think in hindsight, the Oilers and more correctly Chia should have did more to the roster, I don't know who they could have brought in and I am fearful of what it would have cost.


Hjalmarsson was available. Not a right shot, but he plays the right side, quite well. Same cap hit as Russell and only signed for 2 more years, so in a couple years, if Benning is ready to step up you can just walk away.

I think you have a point on Eberle maybe not playing as well here as he is currently playing in NY. I think that points to broader problem with the Oilers then, and they should probably be re-examining how they handle their players. But even if we concede that he wouldn't be scoring as much here, his "poor" year last year is still better than any of the Oilers RW are currently on pace for (outside of Draisaitl, and I think we all agree we don't want Drai playing RW anyways).

- Vanek has 5 goals and 16 points for the Canucks. That would put him 4th on the Oilers.
- Heck, Drew Stafford has 5 goals for NJ and only makes $800k
- Vrbata is ancient, but has 11 points in 19 games for Florida (would be 6th on the Oilers)

Those are just he UFA's I can think of. But I don't think we should assume that those were the only guys available. The price matters of course, but just because a trade didn't happen, doesn't mean that someone couldn't have been had. Like what would have been the cost to get a guy like Marchessault from Florida before they lost him in the expansion draft? Not nothing, but probably a lot less than you can get him now. I think there were definitely missed opportunities this summer and Chiarelli doesn't seem to even think it was an issue. Gregor asked him about it explicitly in his press conference (if he was planning to use the cap space in the summer and it just didn't work out?), and Chia's response was basically that you have to look beyond this year which leads me to believe he didn't really try to use that cap space at all.

Hjalmarsson is left handed but plays the right side. He is an OK skater but not great, he moves the puck OK, he blocks shots and is a defensive dman. He doesn't run a PP, he's not physical and he produces even less points than Russell. According to his bio he tries hard. He's not even cheaper than Russell. Here is his bio. https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/player-bio/niklas-hjalmarsson/bio

Russell is left handed but can play the right side. He is a good skater, he can move the puck decently, he blocks shots and is a defensive dman primarily. While not great at it, he could play on your PP as he was a scoring dman in junior, he's not physical and he produces more points than Hjarlmarsson and has the ability to produce more. He tries hard. Here is his bio.
https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/player-bio/kris-russell/bio

I don't see how Hjarlmarsson is much of an upgrade over Russell. So other than having less contract and for some it would make them feel better because it's not Russell, what's the difference between them? They both don't address what the Oilers need or help with the cap issues for next season.

Plus to get him, the Coyotes traded Connor Murphy and another prospect. So who from the Oilers matches Murphy? Are you trading Benning to get Hjarlmarsson? I would think given who the Oilers have on their team, that's probably the equivalent. I would take Benning over Murphy but I don't know who else the Oilers have that are NHLers.

For the forwards you listed. You aren't making me feel much better. Vanek can't skate. The Oilers lack some speed on the wings so he doesn't help you there. Vrbatta is old as dirt and seems to be one of those guys who lights it up on crap teams but you put him on a decent team, doesn't do much. Maybe on the Oilers he would light it up because they are crap. Stafford would probably be the one I would pick out of the 3 but he has 5 goals, 8 pts in 21 games and is -10. Many of us are complaining about the lack of scoring depth. Caggulia has 4 goals, 6 pts and is a -8 in 16 games. So if he played 5 more games to match Stafford's, he might match his production. So other than being right handed, how much of an upgrade is Stafford over Caggulia?

I am looking for upgrades and like I described above, I am not seeing any.

[Updated on: Tue, 28 November 2017 14:33]


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 Re: Chia says Hello World [message #703918 is a reply to message #703909 ]
Tue, 28 November 2017 10:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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 Re: Chia says Hello World [message #703927 is a reply to message #703918 ]
Tue, 28 November 2017 11:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Press Conference Summary.

Question (Reed): Where's an area or two where the team has underachieved.
Answer: It was scoring, now it's not. It was defending, including goaltending. The special teams are improving. Generally: it's a number of areas.
CrusaderPi score out of 10: 8/10 Chia does list a couple of areas where the team has underachieved.

Q (Spector): What about the obvious holes on the team, when you make those calls and they don't pan out, you do you fix them?
A: Yeah they're not working. The GM's job is fixing + your gut + patience. But we're trying to fix it Chia lists problems. Chia admits it's not going right. You have to let things play out and then try to fix it. We're looking at everything. Everything is hard.
S: 6 Chia seems self-aware now but unaware of how to find a fix.

Q (Gregor): Cap Space. Was the the plan to use the cap space in the summer / at the deadline?
A: You look at options in the summer. You also have to look at the future when using cap space, there's something called the future you have to be aware of. Anyway, it's hard to shake players loose. No one is helping us. Why haven't we spent? Well, players are hard to find.
CPi: 6/10 Chia again seems self-aware but unaware at the same time. Does not bring up McDavid and Drai getting big contracts starting next year.

Q(Rishaugh): Related to Spec's question. What's the risk in betting on unproven players?
A: The bets aren't lost yet. We have to play players at some point. Think long term here. No mention of McDavid's third year. The alternative to these bets is players who don't fit into future plans. Always planning for the future. There's a grander plan (lol-another grand plan). The bets could play better but what are you going to do?
CPi: 3/10. Doesn't not answer the question.

Q(no idea, some dude.): Is it hard to get a read on this team?
A: There's been a lot of up and down (does not mention it has been mostly down). Death by 1000 cuts is mentioned again. You can look at all the problems and to fix them, collectively they're a problem, individually they can be fix but it's so hard to get through all the problems. But it's still early. Ya gotta believe!
CPi: 2/10 this is a dumb answer.

Q(Matheson): Did you miscalculate or where you upset the coach says the team isn't quick enough? And is it Klef and Talbot's fault
A: No, quickness isn't a problem. We're quick enough. We did the calculation even though player to player we're not as quick as our opponents. Klef is having a tough season. So is Talbot. If those things we're better, we'd be better, but they're not better, so we aren't better.
CPi: 3/10. Blows smoke about quickness, blames Klef and Talbot.

Q(Gregor): This team is up and down. Why? (Basically the same question asked two above)
A: It's a mental problem and IT GOES BACK TO MANAGING EXPECTATION. You see, our half ass build and the mere suggestion we might be Cup contenders made this season so much tougher on our mentally fragile players.
CPi: 1/10. Good lord. You know how we're arguing about Eberle and Hall being mentally weak in another thread? Btw, if these players are so mentally weak they can't handle the thought of winning, why are you signing these players? What is your goal here and how are you going to get there? But I digress.

Q(Dunno): If the up and down trend continues... how long of a leesh do you give this club? At what point do you consider doing something?
A: I can't answer that right now. We're obviously a bad team. We have to be vigilant, but you can't overreact. We can't blow things up. After stutter for what felt like 14 minutes... but this doesn't mean we're not going to try and do stuff.
CPi: 4.5/10. A nothing answer for a nothing question. The media really can't handle inconsistency.

Q(Rishaugh): Address special team inconsistency / is the ST staff doing its job?
A: ST is the first thing everyone looks at. They're (coaches) working hard. There's improvement, so that's good. I'm not blaming the goalie, but obviously the goalies is the most important PKer. The PP is improving. The staff is focused, perhaps over-focused, on improvement. Chia is satisfied with what the staff is doing.
CPi: 3/10. Yup! No problems here! Moving on....

Q(Spector): Is the chemistry good enough? (Spector somehow sounds like he's speaking for everyone here and that no one had the giant brass balls needed to ask this hard hitting question).
A: Ummmmmm What is chemistry? How is chemistry different from attitude. Todd and I really tried hard to manage expectations this summer (and apparently failed?). Chemistry might be related to the guys having trouble managing expectations. Anyway, the in room stuff seems fine. I guess focus is the problem... and also managing expectations. Ummm it might be chemistry, but I think it's focus and managing expectation.
CPi: 2.5/10. Good news gang! There's no problems here either.

~Fin.



Peter Chiarelli, General Disappointment.

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 Re: Chia says Hello World [message #703923 is a reply to message #703909 ]
Tue, 28 November 2017 11:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Spector asks him how he fixes things in season. He ponders for a while, then he loses his train of thought and can't remember the question. He suggests his goalie and coaches among others haven't been up to snuff. He then says "there's no easy answers". Sooooo...he doesn't really answer.

Jason Gregor asks about when he was hoping to use the cap space. Well, maybe now, maybe later. It's just so hard to shake these things loose. In the summer would have hamstrung them to spend...maybe.

Couple minutes in and I've already rolled my eyes several times.

Also - he still can't pronounce Puljujarvi. Don Cherry-esque actually in the way he chews it up and spits it out.

[Updated on: Tue, 28 November 2017 11:01]


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 Re: Chia says Hello World [message #703925 is a reply to message #703923 ]
Tue, 28 November 2017 11:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Says Klefbom is sub-par this year. Says goaltending is sub-par this year.

Typical Oilers allowing specific players to be tossed under the bus publicly.



"This team needs an enema!"
#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan

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 Re: Chia says Hello World [message #703949 is a reply to message #703925 ]
Tue, 28 November 2017 14:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NetBOG  is currently offline NetBOG
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Adam wrote on Tue, 28 November 2017 11:05

Says Klefbom is sub-par this year. Says goaltending is sub-par this year.

Typical Oilers allowing specific players to be tossed under the bus publicly.


Have Talbot and Klefbom been performing as expected this year?

If no, then they should be identified as week spots and either focused on for improvement or replaced.

If I go to work and I'm not performing up to expectations, I'd expect the same.

Why do you expect these guys not to face criticism?



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 Re: Chia says Hello World [message #703953 is a reply to message #703949 ]
Tue, 28 November 2017 15:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dragon_Matt  is currently offline Dragon_Matt
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Q(Matheson): Did you miscalculate or where you upset the coach says the team isn't quick enough? And is it Klef and Talbot's fault
A: No, quickness isn't a problem. We're quick enough. We did the calculation even though player to player we're not as quick as our opponents. Klef is having a tough season. So is Talbot. If those things we're better, we'd be better, but they're not better, so we aren't better.

I don't think this has anything to do with criticism. I'm dissappointed as I expected great things from him coming in and he's dissappointed more often than not.
But you can take Talbot and Klefbom out of that question and replace it with any two names and get the same answer.
If McDavid and Kassian would be better, we'd be better. They're not better, so we aren't better.



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 Re: Chia says Hello World [message #703954 is a reply to message #703953 ]
Tue, 28 November 2017 15:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Dragon_Matt wrote on Tue, 28 November 2017 15:10

Q(Matheson): Did you miscalculate or where you upset the coach says the team isn't quick enough? And is it Klef and Talbot's fault
A: No, quickness isn't a problem. We're quick enough. We did the calculation even though player to player we're not as quick as our opponents. Klef is having a tough season. So is Talbot. If those things we're better, we'd be better, but they're not better, so we aren't better.

I don't think this has anything to do with criticism. I'm dissappointed as I expected great things from him coming in and he's dissappointed more often than not.
But you can take Talbot and Klefbom out of that question and replace it with any two names and get the same answer.
If McDavid and Kassian would be better, we'd be better. They're not better, so we aren't better.

Well, the difference is Klef and Talbot were expected to play a much bigger role in success than they are. McDavid is playing up to (managed) expectations while Kassian doesn't really have expectations.



Peter Chiarelli, General Disappointment.

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 Re: Chia says Hello World [message #703966 is a reply to message #703949 ]
Tue, 28 November 2017 15:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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NetBOG wrote on Tue, 28 November 2017 14:59

Adam wrote on Tue, 28 November 2017 11:05

Says Klefbom is sub-par this year. Says goaltending is sub-par this year.

Typical Oilers allowing specific players to be tossed under the bus publicly.


Have Talbot and Klefbom been performing as expected this year?

If no, then they should be identified as week spots and either focused on for improvement or replaced.

If I go to work and I'm not performing up to expectations, I'd expect the same.

Why do you expect these guys not to face criticism?


Do you expect the criticism to be given to you directly? Or do you expect it to be aired at the next company-wide meeting?

I think that the organization should insulate its players as much as possible from outside criticism. Deflect media and fan criticism, absorb blame whenever you can. I think any good team should do that...rather than point out and dwell on errors, simply say that no one plays a perfect game and that there are a thousand things they're doing well that no one really remembers except for the guys who run the team. Basically, I think that the way the Oilers handle Kris Russell is how they should handle the criticism of everyone else. You only think he's under-performing because you're not looking as closely as we are.

And then behind closed doors, it's a different message. You can give very specific criticism to players, show them video, ask them to improve, assess whether they can improve, and if need be make changes and send them out. But there is NO benefit from publicly identifying individual players' performance as an issue...even if it is a huge issue.



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 Re: Chia says Hello World [message #703974 is a reply to message #703966 ]
Tue, 28 November 2017 16:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dragon_Matt  is currently offline Dragon_Matt
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I completely agree that Chia didn't handle the question in a supportive way, he just didn't throw them under the bus as had been insinuated above.


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 Re: Chia says Hello World [message #703976 is a reply to message #703966 ]
Tue, 28 November 2017 16:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NetBOG  is currently offline NetBOG
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Adam wrote on Tue, 28 November 2017 15:45



Do you expect the criticism to be given to you directly? Or do you expect it to be aired at the next company-wide meeting?

I think that the organization should insulate its players as much as possible from outside criticism. Deflect media and fan criticism, absorb blame whenever you can. I think any good team should do that...rather than point out and dwell on errors, simply say that no one plays a perfect game and that there are a thousand things they're doing well that no one really remembers except for the guys who run the team. Basically, I think that the way the Oilers handle Kris Russell is how they should handle the criticism of everyone else. You only think he's under-performing because you're not looking as closely as we are.

And then behind closed doors, it's a different message. You can give very specific criticism to players, show them video, ask them to improve, assess whether they can improve, and if need be make changes and send them out. But there is NO benefit from publicly identifying individual players' performance as an issue...even if it is a huge issue.


I expect to be held accountable for my performance. When my manager is directly asked why the team isn't getting the work done right, he should be upfront.

I'm not understanding what you want. You complain that the media is controlled by the team, and won't criticize, but as soon as they do its too much and it 'hurts the confidence' of the players. You want criticism but you don't want anybody to be criticized.

And how is Russel not living up to expectations? He's 4th on the team in D minutes, he's a plus player, and he's on pace for just over 27 points (your favourite defence metric, not mine).



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 Re: Chia says Hello World [message #703980 is a reply to message #703976 ]
Tue, 28 November 2017 16:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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NetBOG wrote on Tue, 28 November 2017 16:09


I expect to be held accountable for my performance. When my manager is directly asked why the team isn't getting the work done right, he should be upfront.

I'm not understanding what you want. You complain that the media is controlled by the team, and won't criticize, but as soon as they do its too much and it 'hurts the confidence' of the players. You want criticism but you don't want anybody to be criticized.

And how is Russel not living up to expectations? He's 4th on the team in D minutes, he's a plus player, and he's on pace for just over 27 points (your favourite defence metric, not mine).


The point about Russell isn't a criticism of his play, it's talking about how Chiarelli has handled criticisms of his play up until now. He gets asked about the bad metrics on advanced stats, and about the other criticisms (drops too early, allows easy entry to DZ by backing off - in part because he's always trying to set himself to block shots, poor passer, defaults to giving the puck away) and he quickly pivots by simply saying that the Oilers have access to other metrics than fans or media which say he's doing just fine...in fact, near the tops in the league, in his designated super-secret stat.

That's how I'd like him to handle criticism of all players. Don't agree with the criticism and say that they just know better and the player is doing fine.

I think the media won't criticize the group at the top. They're fine with crucifying players. I've never ever suggested that the media isn't happy to drive nails through Oilers players. It's only Katz/Lowe/MacT/Howson/Chiarelli/McLellan who are off-limits...although if one of the ones at the bottom of that list gets fired, then it's open season on them (see Tambellini and Eakins).




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 Re: Chia says Hello World [message #703965 is a reply to message #703925 ]
Tue, 28 November 2017 15:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Tue, 28 November 2017 11:05

Says Klefbom is sub-par this year. Says goaltending is sub-par this year.

Typical Oilers allowing specific players to be tossed under the bus publicly.


So the GM tells the truth about how 2 critical players to the success of the team haven't had good years and you call it throwing them under the bus? I would bet money that if he had said they were great, you would have lost it and called him a liar because they haven't been good. If he had just ignored the question or refused to answer, you would have lost it and said he was ducking questions and not taking responsibility.

Talbot has a .901 save percentage and a 3.07 GA. Those aren't NHL numbers and you can't win if your starter is putting up numbers like that. His numbers aren't all on the Oilers defense, a large part of is he's been flat out lousy. Klefbom has been brutal for almost the entire season and now where near as good as last year. If Talbot is giving you even average NHL goalie, I would guarantee the Oilers would have a few more wins.

Why is it so bad to tell the truth?



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 Re: Chia says Hello World [message #703968 is a reply to message #703965 ]
Tue, 28 November 2017 15:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 28 November 2017 15:43

I would bet money that if he had said they were great, you would have lost it and called him a liar because they haven't been good. If he had just ignored the question or refused to answer, you would have lost it and said he was ducking questions and not taking responsibility.

Why is it so bad to tell the truth?


Nope. You'll notice I never criticize the management when they say very little. I don't need them to share things with me.

I criticize what they do say. If you don't want to set expectations externally, don't make predictions about the team. If you are asked about a specific player, defend the player vociferously, no matter what you think of them or how they're playing. You get no points for telling the truth.

Lie to the media, don't talk to the media, I don't care. I've said before, Sather gave them nothing of substance most of the time. That's the right approach.

This press conference seems to be simply because the media were pushing him for it. He didn't seem to have a prepared message to deliver, which suggests that it's not very strategic. If I'm in his shoes, I'm only doing one of these if there's a specific message I want out there, and I'm reiterating that message from the pulpit, no matter what the questions. This just seemed so wishy-washy. It was just him agreeing that things aren't good, that he's got big issues that are hard to address and for some reason other teams aren't giving him solutions.



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 Re: Chia says Hello World [message #703972 is a reply to message #703968 ]
Tue, 28 November 2017 16:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Tue, 28 November 2017 15:53

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 28 November 2017 15:43

I would bet money that if he had said they were great, you would have lost it and called him a liar because they haven't been good. If he had just ignored the question or refused to answer, you would have lost it and said he was ducking questions and not taking responsibility.

Why is it so bad to tell the truth?


Nope. You'll notice I never criticize the management when they say very little. I don't need them to share things with me.

I criticize what they do say. If you don't want to set expectations externally, don't make predictions about the team. If you are asked about a specific player, defend the player vociferously, no matter what you think of them or how they're playing. You get no points for telling the truth.

Lie to the media, don't talk to the media, I don't care. I've said before, Sather gave them nothing of substance most of the time. That's the right approach.

This press conference seems to be simply because the media were pushing him for it. He didn't seem to have a prepared message to deliver, which suggests that it's not very strategic. If I'm in his shoes, I'm only doing one of these if there's a specific message I want out there, and I'm reiterating that message from the pulpit, no matter what the questions. This just seemed so wishy-washy. It was just him agreeing that things aren't good, that he's got big issues that are hard to address and for some reason other teams aren't giving him solutions.

Well we will have to disagree then. I don't know what a guy is supposed to do when someone asks you what you think about your goaltending when your starter has a .901 save percentage. Don't believe me?
http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?report=goaliesummary&rep ortType=season&seasonFrom=20172018&seasonTo=20172018 &gameType=2&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,8&sort=savePc tg,wins,goalsAgainstAverage

He's 49th in the league in save percentage. You can't win with goaltending like that. He's not throwing the guy under the bus, he's stating the blatantly obvious.



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 Re: Chia says Hello World [message #703979 is a reply to message #703972 ]
Tue, 28 November 2017 16:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 28 November 2017 16:03


Well we will have to disagree then. I don't know what a guy is supposed to do when someone asks you what you think about your goaltending when your starter has a .901 save percentage. Don't believe me?
http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?report=goaliesummary&rep ortType=season&seasonFrom=20172018&seasonTo=20172018 &gameType=2&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,8&sort=savePc tg,wins,goalsAgainstAverage

He's 49th in the league in save percentage. You can't win with goaltending like that. He's not throwing the guy under the bus, he's stating the blatantly obvious.


Today playing the role of Chia, it's Oilfans' poster Adam:

Press guy: "So, how do you address your goaltending, because it hasn't really been up to snuff this year."

Chia/Adam: "What do you mean? I don't think our goaltending has been bad."

Press guy: "Well, his save percentage is just over .900, his goals against average has been hovering around 3.00."

Chia/Adam: "I don't think goaltending's been as bad as some are making it out to be. I think there's a lot of factors that go in to it, and save percentage and goals against average can be misleading. They don't take in to account shot quality, how the shots are being generated, etc. You can't just look at save percentage and judge goaltending."

Press guy: "But do you need him to be better..."

Chia/Adam (somewhat irritatedly): "I've already answered the question about goaltending. The whole team needs to be better. Next question - Matty, what softball have you prepared for me today?"



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#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan

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 Re: Chia says Hello World [message #703981 is a reply to message #703979 ]
Tue, 28 November 2017 16:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Tue, 28 November 2017 16:16

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 28 November 2017 16:03


Well we will have to disagree then. I don't know what a guy is supposed to do when someone asks you what you think about your goaltending when your starter has a .901 save percentage. Don't believe me?
http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?report=goaliesummary&rep ortType=season&seasonFrom=20172018&seasonTo=20172018 &gameType=2&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,8&sort=savePc tg,wins,goalsAgainstAverage

He's 49th in the league in save percentage. You can't win with goaltending like that. He's not throwing the guy under the bus, he's stating the blatantly obvious.


Today playing the role of Chia, it's Oilfans' poster Adam:

Press guy: "So, how do you address your goaltending, because it hasn't really been up to snuff this year."

Chia/Adam: "What do you mean? I don't think our goaltending has been bad."

Press guy: "Well, his save percentage is just over .900, his goals against average has been hovering around 3.00."

Chia/Adam: "I don't think goaltending's been as bad as some are making it out to be. I think there's a lot of factors that go in to it, and save percentage and goals against average can be misleading. They don't take in to account shot quality, how the shots are being generated, etc. You can't just look at save percentage and judge goaltending."

Press guy: "But do you need him to be better..."

Chia/Adam (somewhat irritatedly): "I've already answered the question about goaltending. The whole team needs to be better. Next question - Matty, what softball have you prepared for me today?"

CrusaderPi will be playing the role of Jim Matheson.

CrusaderMatty: Thanks Peter. Do you believe this team has enough truculence and jam? Follow up question, can you quantify Jusse Jokinen and, I guess, Jordan Eberle's lack of jam? There's a perception among the press that those two and Benoit Pouliot lacked compete, grit, intensity, and gritensity.



Peter Chiarelli, General Disappointment.

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 Re: Chia says Hello World [message #703982 is a reply to message #703979 ]
Tue, 28 November 2017 16:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Tue, 28 November 2017 16:16

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 28 November 2017 16:03


Well we will have to disagree then. I don't know what a guy is supposed to do when someone asks you what you think about your goaltending when your starter has a .901 save percentage. Don't believe me?
http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?report=goaliesummary&rep ortType=season&seasonFrom=20172018&seasonTo=20172018 &gameType=2&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,8&sort=savePc tg,wins,goalsAgainstAverage

He's 49th in the league in save percentage. You can't win with goaltending like that. He's not throwing the guy under the bus, he's stating the blatantly obvious.


Today playing the role of Chia, it's Oilfans' poster Adam:

Press guy: "So, how do you address your goaltending, because it hasn't really been up to snuff this year."

Chia/Adam: "What do you mean? I don't think our goaltending has been bad."

Press guy: "Well, his save percentage is just over .900, his goals against average has been hovering around 3.00."

Chia/Adam: "I don't think goaltending's been as bad as some are making it out to be. I think there's a lot of factors that go in to it, and save percentage and goals against average can be misleading. They don't take in to account shot quality, how the shots are being generated, etc. You can't just look at save percentage and judge goaltending."

Press guy: "But do you need him to be better..."

Chia/Adam (somewhat irritatedly): "I've already answered the question about goaltending. The whole team needs to be better. Next question - Matty, what softball have you prepared for me today?"

Right. Then the headlines come out the next day about how oblivious Chia is based on his presser. Then you have all the radio guys going on air about how out to lunch Chia is since he can't even admit that his goaltender hasn't been good enough. What a great idea.

He didn't go out and say Talbot has sucked and we need someone else. He didn't rip apart his game or his mental state. He didn't go Mac T when he talked about Dubnyk saying if you have to ask the question then you know the answer. All he said was sub par. That's it. Talbot has a career .920 and a 2.39 % and this season he's at .901 and 3.07. https://www.nhl.com/player/cam-talbot-8475660
So based on his numbers, Talbot is WAY underperforming. So again all Chia is saying is the blatantly obvious. I'm surprised who ever asked the question about Talbot didn't go "Well Duh. Gee thanks Peter for telling us the obvious."



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 Re: Chia says Hello World [message #703983 is a reply to message #703982 ]
Tue, 28 November 2017 16:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 28 November 2017 16:31

Adam wrote on Tue, 28 November 2017 16:16

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 28 November 2017 16:03


Well we will have to disagree then. I don't know what a guy is supposed to do when someone asks you what you think about your goaltending when your starter has a .901 save percentage. Don't believe me?
http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?report=goaliesummary&rep ortType=season&seasonFrom=20172018&seasonTo=20172018 &gameType=2&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,8&sort=savePc tg,wins,goalsAgainstAverage

He's 49th in the league in save percentage. You can't win with goaltending like that. He's not throwing the guy under the bus, he's stating the blatantly obvious.


Today playing the role of Chia, it's Oilfans' poster Adam:

Press guy: "So, how do you address your goaltending, because it hasn't really been up to snuff this year."

Chia/Adam: "What do you mean? I don't think our goaltending has been bad."

Press guy: "Well, his save percentage is just over .900, his goals against average has been hovering around 3.00."

Chia/Adam: "I don't think goaltending's been as bad as some are making it out to be. I think there's a lot of factors that go in to it, and save percentage and goals against average can be misleading. They don't take in to account shot quality, how the shots are being generated, etc. You can't just look at save percentage and judge goaltending."

Press guy: "But do you need him to be better..."

Chia/Adam (somewhat irritatedly): "I've already answered the question about goaltending. The whole team needs to be better. Next question - Matty, what softball have you prepared for me today?"

Right. Then the headlines come out the next day about how oblivious Chia is based on his presser. Then you have all the radio guys going on air about how out to lunch Chia is since he can't even admit that his goaltender hasn't been good enough. What a great idea.

He didn't go out and say Talbot has sucked and we need someone else. He didn't rip apart his game or his mental state. He didn't go Mac T when he talked about Dubnyk saying if you have to ask the question then you know the answer. All he said was sub par. That's it. Talbot has a career .920 and a 2.39 % and this season he's at .901 and 3.07. https://www.nhl.com/player/cam-talbot-8475660
So based on his numbers, Talbot is WAY underperforming. So again all Chia is saying is the blatantly obvious. I'm surprised who ever asked the question about Talbot didn't go "Well Duh. Gee thanks Peter for telling us the obvious."


That's great. If I'm GM, I would prefer that the media is complaining about me and calling me clueless, rather than writing that I said that the goalie needed to be better.

If I'm the story, then there's less pressure on the team.



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 Re: Chia says Hello World [message #704072 is a reply to message #703983 ]
Wed, 29 November 2017 07:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Tue, 28 November 2017 16:37



If I'm GM, I would prefer that the media is complaining about me and calling me clueless, rather than writing that I said that the goalie needed to be better.

If I'm the story, then there's less pressure on the team.


Hear hear! I think that the Oilers' management willingness to publicly criticize individual players plays a massive part in both destroying players' confidence (e.g., Eberle, Poti) and eventually driving them out of town (e.g., Dubnyk, Schultz). Far better management strategy is to publicly back up your players, and beat the snot out of them in private meetings. It's a lot like family: in our home, I will correct, rebuke, and discipline my children, and I will disagree with and even argue with my wife; but in public I will defend them vigorously and unapologetically. That doesn't have to mean lying (that's the only place where I disagree with Adam), but I think it DOES mean emphasizing things like, "I have great faith in Talbot's long-term track record, and know that he's going to be the backbone of this team all season long," or, "Klef is an absolute stud, and we are extremely fortunate to have him in Edmonton; some weeks are better than others, but Oscar is going to be a top-pairing defenceman in this league for a long time." I'd absolutely stress in public that the team needs to be better, but the focus would always be on the group, never on individual flaws. This was, I think, the strongest part of Krueger's coaching repertoire - he understood people, and had an ability to motivate, not de-motivate; to critique in private, not in public; to cultivate a family, not a farm.



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 Re: Chia says Hello World [message #704075 is a reply to message #704072 ]
Wed, 29 November 2017 08:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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AndersonRules wrote on Wed, 29 November 2017 07:38

Adam wrote on Tue, 28 November 2017 16:37



If I'm GM, I would prefer that the media is complaining about me and calling me clueless, rather than writing that I said that the goalie needed to be better.

If I'm the story, then there's less pressure on the team.


Hear hear! I think that the Oilers' management willingness to publicly criticize individual players plays a massive part in both destroying players' confidence (e.g., Eberle, Poti) and eventually driving them out of town (e.g., Dubnyk, Schultz). Far better management strategy is to publicly back up your players, and beat the snot out of them in private meetings. It's a lot like family: in our home, I will correct, rebuke, and discipline my children, and I will disagree with and even argue with my wife; but in public I will defend them vigorously and unapologetically. That doesn't have to mean lying (that's the only place where I disagree with Adam), but I think it DOES mean emphasizing things like, "I have great faith in Talbot's long-term track record, and know that he's going to be the backbone of this team all season long," or, "Klef is an absolute stud, and we are extremely fortunate to have him in Edmonton; some weeks are better than others, but Oscar is going to be a top-pairing defenceman in this league for a long time." I'd absolutely stress in public that the team needs to be better, but the focus would always be on the group, never on individual flaws. This was, I think, the strongest part of Krueger's coaching repertoire - he understood people, and had an ability to motivate, not de-motivate; to critique in private, not in public; to cultivate a family, not a farm.



I think the only reason that I say that lying is important is just the knowledge that other teams are paying attention to what you say. So if the media asks me in June 2016 if I need a top-flight first line defenceman, I tell them I don't think it's that important and remind them that we have great faith in Sekera - who we signed a year before, plus the team was without Klefbom all year basically, and we think he's a first pairing defenceman. I'd tell them I really don't think that's a critical need at all, but that obviously if you can get a good player, you do.

I always loved how Sather handled any rumour about any player. He categorically denied that they were considering trading him at all, and acted as if it was the stupidest thing the reporter had ever asked him. Even when the guy was immediately afterwards traded.

Sometimes, lying is just part of the job in my estimate.



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 Re: Chia says Hello World [message #704078 is a reply to message #704075 ]
Wed, 29 November 2017 08:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Wed, 29 November 2017 08:38

AndersonRules wrote on Wed, 29 November 2017 07:38

Adam wrote on Tue, 28 November 2017 16:37



If I'm GM, I would prefer that the media is complaining about me and calling me clueless, rather than writing that I said that the goalie needed to be better.

If I'm the story, then there's less pressure on the team.


Hear hear! I think that the Oilers' management willingness to publicly criticize individual players plays a massive part in both destroying players' confidence (e.g., Eberle, Poti) and eventually driving them out of town (e.g., Dubnyk, Schultz). Far better management strategy is to publicly back up your players, and beat the snot out of them in private meetings. It's a lot like family: in our home, I will correct, rebuke, and discipline my children, and I will disagree with and even argue with my wife; but in public I will defend them vigorously and unapologetically. That doesn't have to mean lying (that's the only place where I disagree with Adam), but I think it DOES mean emphasizing things like, "I have great faith in Talbot's long-term track record, and know that he's going to be the backbone of this team all season long," or, "Klef is an absolute stud, and we are extremely fortunate to have him in Edmonton; some weeks are better than others, but Oscar is going to be a top-pairing defenceman in this league for a long time." I'd absolutely stress in public that the team needs to be better, but the focus would always be on the group, never on individual flaws. This was, I think, the strongest part of Krueger's coaching repertoire - he understood people, and had an ability to motivate, not de-motivate; to critique in private, not in public; to cultivate a family, not a farm.



I think the only reason that I say that lying is important is just the knowledge that other teams are paying attention to what you say. So if the media asks me in June 2016 if I need a top-flight first line defenceman, I tell them I don't think it's that important and remind them that we have great faith in Sekera - who we signed a year before, plus the team was without Klefbom all year basically, and we think he's a first pairing defenceman. I'd tell them I really don't think that's a critical need at all, but that obviously if you can get a good player, you do.

I always loved how Sather handled any rumour about any player. He categorically denied that they were considering trading him at all, and acted as if it was the stupidest thing the reporter had ever asked him. Even when the guy was immediately afterwards traded.

Sometimes, lying is just part of the job in my estimate.

He's not trying to trade for a goalie or dump Talbot though. His team were listed as one of the cup contenders by a ton of hockey people at the start of the year. His goalie was in the conversation of the vezina last year and there were some that felt he should have been in the running for the award. Even Talbot himself says he hasn't been that good. So I don't see the harm in admitting the blatantly obvious that your goalie hasn't been good enough when all the numbers say he isn't and even the player himself says it.

I guess if your players are so fragile mentally that they physically can't handle anyone saying anything other than sunshine and rainbows BS, then sure go ahead and lie. In thinking about it, maybe that is true. Maybe these guys are so weak mentally you have to stroke them and lie and pretend everything is OK. Maybe Chia should of went Mac T and said "I think Talbot is winning the vezina this year and who ever calculates those numbers doesn't know what he is doing. I also think that Klefbom is this years Norris winner, book it!" If you are going to stand in front of people and lie to their face about how 2 of your most critical players have played, then why not go all out. People will call Chia a liar and an idiot for not acknowledging how they play, might as well do it up right. Based on what Eberle said about the mean old media saying mean things when he was playing like crap and costing the team games and how it ruined his game, maybe what I am saying isn't completely crazy after all.



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 Re: Chia says Hello World [message #704085 is a reply to message #704078 ]
Wed, 29 November 2017 10:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 29 November 2017 07:54

Even Talbot himself says he hasn't been that good. So I don't see the harm in admitting the blatantly obvious that your goalie hasn't been good enough when all the numbers say he isn't and even the player himself says it.


Exactly. Talbot already knows that he isn't playing well. You ask what the harm is in admitting the obvious? I would say, what is the benefit? I literally can't think of one.

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 29 November 2017 07:54


I guess if your players are so fragile mentally that they physically can't handle anyone saying anything other than sunshine and rainbows BS, then sure go ahead and lie. In thinking about it, maybe that is true. Maybe these guys are so weak mentally you have to stroke them and lie and pretend everything is OK. Maybe Chia should of went Mac T and said "I think Talbot is winning the vezina this year and who ever calculates those numbers doesn't know what he is doing. I also think that Klefbom is this years Norris winner, book it!" If you are going to stand in front of people and lie to their face about how 2 of your most critical players have played, then why not go all out. People will call Chia a liar and an idiot for not acknowledging how they play, might as well do it up right. Based on what Eberle said about the mean old media saying mean things when he was playing like crap and costing the team games and how it ruined his game, maybe what I am saying isn't completely crazy after all.


I have to say, I find it a bit irritating that we assume that a guy that doesn't like constantly reading bad things about himself in the media are mentally weak. Or Dustin Nielson saying that Eberle needs to, "grow a pair" (this comment bothers me for a whole bunch of other reasons also). Nobody likes it. I especially find it hilarious that guys like Spector or Rishaug think these players are mentally weak for not liking having negative things written about them or said on TSN, but if some obscure Oilers blogger with a much smaller platform or random person on twitter calls out one of their takes as stupid, they lose their minds. I worked as a server for a good portion of my life, both when I was in university and later to supplement my income. I got pretty good at it after a while. But to this day, I still remember when some random guest wrote a bad Yelp review about me. It bothered me for weeks. Now take that and multiply it by about a million to try and understand what an NHL player has to go through when the media gets their knives out. To try and pretend that Eberle, or anyone, can just turn that off doesn't make any sense to me.

And again, what's the benefit of saying publicly that Klefbom is, "having a subpar season"? He already knows it, you can definitely have that conversation with him privately, but why give guys like Spector, who are already writing that Klefbom has been brutal, more fuel for their fire. And although I would personally find it funny, Chia doens't have to be absurd and say he thinks Klefbom is going to win the Norris, I'm pretty sure there's a happy medium in there, (and even better, I just wouldn't comment on individuals at all as I said in a different post). I just think the Oilers should be doing everything they can to help that player perform. It seems insane to me that the Oilers are willing to pay a player tens of millions of dollars over his career, but they aren't willing to back him publicly to a press that is known for writing idiotic things? NHL teams pay a handful of people $75M/year to play a game. They charter private jets to make their travel easier, they employ a whole host of training and medical staff to ensure they stay healthy and at their peak physically. I remember the Canucks hiring a sleep specialist to ensure the team was getting proper rest on the road. But on the mental side the approach seems to be to just tell them to, "toughen up". I don't really understand how anyone can think they shouldn't be doing every little thing possible to make sure those players succeed.

[Updated on: Wed, 29 November 2017 10:13]


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 Re: Chia says Hello World [message #704087 is a reply to message #704085 ]
Wed, 29 November 2017 10:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Goose wrote on Wed, 29 November 2017 10:12

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 29 November 2017 07:54

Even Talbot himself says he hasn't been that good. So I don't see the harm in admitting the blatantly obvious that your goalie hasn't been good enough when all the numbers say he isn't and even the player himself says it.


Exactly. Talbot already knows that he isn't playing well. You ask what the harm is in admitting the obvious? I would say, what is the benefit? I literally can't think of one.

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 29 November 2017 07:54


I guess if your players are so fragile mentally that they physically can't handle anyone saying anything other than sunshine and rainbows BS, then sure go ahead and lie. In thinking about it, maybe that is true. Maybe these guys are so weak mentally you have to stroke them and lie and pretend everything is OK. Maybe Chia should of went Mac T and said "I think Talbot is winning the vezina this year and who ever calculates those numbers doesn't know what he is doing. I also think that Klefbom is this years Norris winner, book it!" If you are going to stand in front of people and lie to their face about how 2 of your most critical players have played, then why not go all out. People will call Chia a liar and an idiot for not acknowledging how they play, might as well do it up right. Based on what Eberle said about the mean old media saying mean things when he was playing like crap and costing the team games and how it ruined his game, maybe what I am saying isn't completely crazy after all.


I have to say, I find it a bit irritating that we assume that a guy that doesn't like constantly reading bad things about himself in the media are mentally weak. Or Dustin Nielson saying that Eberle needs to, "grow a pair" (this comment bothers me for a whole bunch of other reasons also). Nobody likes it. I especially find it hilarious that guys like Spector or Rishaug think these players are mentally weak for not liking having negative things written about them or said on TSN, but if some obscure Oilers blogger with a much smaller platform or random person on twitter calls out one of their takes as stupid, they lose their minds. I worked as a server for a good portion of my life, both when I was in university and later to supplement my income. I got pretty good at it after a while. But to this day, I still remember when some random guest wrote a bad Yelp review about me. It bothered me for weeks. Now take that and multiply it by about a million to try and understand what an NHL player has to go through when the media gets their knives out. To try and pretend that Eberle, or anyone, can just turn that off doesn't make any sense to me.

And again, what's the benefit of saying publicly that Klefbom is, "having a subpar season"? He already knows it, you can definitely have that conversation with him privately, but why give guys like Spector, who are already writing that Klefbom has been brutal, more fuel for their fire. And although I would personally find it funny, Chia doens't have to be absurd and say he thinks Klefbom is going to win the Norris, I'm pretty sure there's a happy medium in there, (and even better, I just wouldn't comment on individuals at all as I said in a different post). I just think the Oilers should be doing everything they can to help that player perform. It seems insane to me that the Oilers are willing to pay a player tens of millions of dollars over his career, but they aren't willing to back him publicly to a press that is known for writing idiotic things? NHL teams pay a handful of people $75M/year to play a game. They charter private jets to make their travel easier, they employ a whole host of training and medical staff to ensure they stay healthy and at their peak physically. I remember the Canucks hiring a sleep specialist to ensure the team was getting proper rest on the road. But on the mental side the approach seems to be to just tell them to, "toughen up". I don't really understand how anyone can think they shouldn't be doing every little thing possible to make sure those players succeed.


I'd like to think that professional players are more than mentally tough enough to handle a little negative comments. But the debate we are having here is how Chia should have lied when asked about Talbot and Klefbom being especially bad this year. As I have said several times, he didn't rip a strip off them or carve them up, all he said was they haven't been having good years. Well they aren't. They themselves even admit it. So why is it so terrible for their boss to say "Yup, they aren't playing that well right now, we need them to be better." Well no kidding. It would be one thing if they thought they were playing good then your boss says the opposite. But that isn't the case. But you yourself said "What's the benefit". Well if these guys are tough enough to handle it, then someone coming out and stating the blatantly obvious that he isn't have a good year shouldn't be a problem. If Klefbom or Talbot were rookies and they were struggling like they have been, we'd all be screaming about why the team has let them stay up this long and it's ruining them. Then when the team finally sends them down and says "they need more development time because they aren't NHL ready." We'd all be saying "thanks captain obvious, why did it take so long." But we wouldn't be saying "oh man, you can't say they aren't NHL ready, that's throwing them under the bus, he should lie about it. "



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 Re: Chia says Hello World [message #704088 is a reply to message #704087 ]
Wed, 29 November 2017 10:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 29 November 2017 10:38


I'd like to think that professional players are more than mentally tough enough to handle a little negative comments. But the debate we are having here is how Chia should have lied when asked about Talbot and Klefbom being especially bad this year. As I have said several times, he didn't rip a strip off them or carve them up, all he said was they haven't been having good years. Well they aren't. They themselves even admit it. So why is it so terrible for their boss to say "Yup, they aren't playing that well right now, we need them to be better." Well no kidding. It would be one thing if they thought they were playing good then your boss says the opposite. But that isn't the case. But you yourself said "What's the benefit". Well if these guys are tough enough to handle it, then someone coming out and stating the blatantly obvious that he isn't have a good year shouldn't be a problem. If Klefbom or Talbot were rookies and they were struggling like they have been, we'd all be screaming about why the team has let them stay up this long and it's ruining them. Then when the team finally sends them down and says "they need more development time because they aren't NHL ready." We'd all be saying "thanks captain obvious, why did it take so long." But we wouldn't be saying "oh man, you can't say they aren't NHL ready, that's throwing them under the bus, he should lie about it. "


RDOF, how do you feel when someone criticizes your opinion in here. Especially one where you actually have gone to the effort of writing out a short novel, and maybe even pulled a few stats or quotes from others in an effort to back it up.

If you find it irritating to have someone dissect your posts, is that human nature? or is that mental weakness? I mean, after all, you're here voluntarily, and you don't have to put forward your thoughts at all, so you could just shrug your shoulders and not let it bother you. Why would it need to bother you? It's really just people talking about a silly game, right? Does it make you mentally weak if you get upset when someone peels apart every aspect of your argument and suggests that your opinion is dead wrong?

The fact is, it's not about being weak or tough. People aren't going to like being criticized, especially not publicly, even when the criticism is fair.

There is no benefit to Chiarelli standing at the front of the room like he did yesterday and admitting that there are problems with Talbot and Klefbom's performance (and Brossoit - who also managed to get singled out). Chiarelli actually piled on, jokingly, when someone pointed out some of the areas of issue, and Chiarelli threw out a couple more. And he also didn't help his coach any, suggesting that his coaching staff was too focused on the special teams, and one other comment that made me raise my eyebrow.

All that is a shifting of blame. It's Chiarelli suggesting that he's not made mistakes in the construction, but that specific people are letting the team down. It focuses a brighter light on them, and on any errors that they make. It is already an issue with Klefbom - he touches the puck as much as any Oilers blueliner, since he's their best puck-mover, so he's going to have more opportunities for mistakes. Even if he's perfect on 9/10 tries, right now the one mistake he makes is going to get dissected, first on TV, and then again in the columns following the game. Almost any time he's on the ice for a goal against right now, he's getting mentioned. That's not a great situation for a defenceman who you want playing the puck a lot. You don't want him second-guessing what he's doing, and you certainly don't want the crowd getting tense when he has the puck. We've seen in Edmonton what that does to a young defenceman...it wears on confidence.

So defend the player publicly if your coach or manager. There's no downside to it. He knows he needs to improve, and privately you can tell him he needs to improve, but if he sees that his back is protected by those above him, that makes life easier. If you manage to discourage ONE negative column against him then it's a benefit. And at bare minimum, you're not running down an asset that you may have to trade some day, and your words can't be used against you in that negotiation down the road.



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 Re: Chia says Hello World [message #704092 is a reply to message #704087 ]
Wed, 29 November 2017 11:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 29 November 2017 09:38


I'd like to think that professional players are more than mentally tough enough to handle a little negative comments.


I think you're severely underestimating what it is like for an NHL player in Edmonton that is underperforming and in the sights of the media and fans.

But again, why is it that players that don't like constantly reading negative things about them should just toughen up? Nobody ever says, "these guys play a game for a living, why do they need a full time massage therapist on staff? They should just be physically tougher".

It's not about tough or not tough, it's about doing everything you can to ensure that your team is successful. There is zero benefit to the team for Chiarelli to say that Klefbom is having a subpar season. Zero. So why do it? Because he owes the fans or media the truth? I've already stated that GM's and teams lie all the time. I have no expectation that he should be truthful here.



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 Re: Chia says Hello World [message #704095 is a reply to message #704092 ]
Wed, 29 November 2017 11:34 Go to previous message
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Goose wrote on Wed, 29 November 2017 11:16

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 29 November 2017 09:38


I'd like to think that professional players are more than mentally tough enough to handle a little negative comments.


I think you're severely underestimating what it is like for an NHL player in Edmonton that is underperforming and in the sights of the media and fans.

But again, why is it that players that don't like constantly reading negative things about them should just toughen up? Nobody ever says, "these guys play a game for a living, why do they need a full time massage therapist on staff? They should just be physically tougher".

It's not about tough or not tough, it's about doing everything you can to ensure that your team is successful. There is zero benefit to the team for Chiarelli to say that Klefbom is having a subpar season. Zero. So why do it? Because he owes the fans or media the truth? I've already stated that GM's and teams lie all the time. I have no expectation that he should be truthful here.



I won't argue one bit that playing in a Canadian market is tough on guys. I would say that playing in Toronto or Montreal would be tougher than Edmonton but Edmonton would be up there for sure. I also agree that at times the fans and media can be too harsh and overly critical at times. But at the same time, these guys get a TON of perks and special treatment being in a market like Edmonton because of the attention. So while I understand that it would be frustrating at times when things are negative, I don't see these guys going out of their way to praise all the good attention. I don't see these guys going out and praising a media guy when they write an article in support about how maybe a player is getting a raw deal by the coach. I don't see these guys going out of their way to thank the fans on their own accord or coming on talk shows unsolicited to sing the praises. You can't tell me that any talk show host wouldn't have taken Eberle's call if he called up one afternoon to thank the fans for a great ovation he got. When they are asked, they give the clique answer. "We have the best fans in the league." Same answer you hear when the Panthers guy in front 5000 people says the same thing.

I don't expect these guys to do anything I said. It is what it is. I also don't blame them for getting their backs up at times but in my opinion, if you are going to blast people for negative, you should praise the good because all the good and bad attention you get, get you a hell of a lot of perks.



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 Re: Chia says Hello World [message #704086 is a reply to message #704078 ]
Wed, 29 November 2017 10:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 29 November 2017 08:54


He's not trying to trade for a goalie or dump Talbot though. His team were listed as one of the cup contenders by a ton of hockey people at the start of the year. His goalie was in the conversation of the vezina last year and there were some that felt he should have been in the running for the award. Even Talbot himself says he hasn't been that good. So I don't see the harm in admitting the blatantly obvious that your goalie hasn't been good enough when all the numbers say he isn't and even the player himself says it.

I guess if your players are so fragile mentally that they physically can't handle anyone saying anything other than sunshine and rainbows BS, then sure go ahead and lie. In thinking about it, maybe that is true. Maybe these guys are so weak mentally you have to stroke them and lie and pretend everything is OK. Maybe Chia should of went Mac T and said "I think Talbot is winning the vezina this year and who ever calculates those numbers doesn't know what he is doing. I also think that Klefbom is this years Norris winner, book it!" If you are going to stand in front of people and lie to their face about how 2 of your most critical players have played, then why not go all out. People will call Chia a liar and an idiot for not acknowledging how they play, might as well do it up right. Based on what Eberle said about the mean old media saying mean things when he was playing like crap and costing the team games and how it ruined his game, maybe what I am saying isn't completely crazy after all.


It's not about mental weakness. It's about showing support for your guys. Your players should feel like management and coaches have their backs and that they are always defended. That's how you build a great team culture.

Coaches and management should insulate the team and make them feel that it's us against the world and that even if we have harsh words for you inside the room, when it comes to outside the room, we're going to tell people they're wrong if they suggest the exact same criticism we just gave you.

I think that teams, especially Canadian teams, need to be conscious of how bright that spotlight is, and how much of an echo chamber it can be when there are public criticisms of players out there. It isn't about saying "suck it up, you're making millions to play a game." That's not going to actually soften the blow of having the whole city you're living in angry about the mistakes you're making on the ice, and reminding you of it constantly. By focussing only on the positive regarding players publicly, you refuse to stoke those fires from the mob. By defending passionately your player against hatchet pieces from media, you put doubt in to the minds of the fan who might have otherwise booed the player next game.

I had something happen at work a while ago, where there was a screw-up made in a deliverable to the client. It was missed until the client saw it, and he wasn't happy. Now, I could have thrown my analyst under the bus on that. The client doesn't even know him, and it would have reduced the heat on me. There were higher ups from my company involved, and they weren't thrilled by the mistake too. I simply took full responsibility for the error. After all, I am ultimately responsible for the product anyhow.

I made sure that those reporting to me knew that A) they screwed up and that we need to be better in the future but also B) that I took responsibility, that I didn't even mention their name to the higher ups when discussing the error. It's the same philosophy with GM and coach. You protect those downstream and take any abuse that you have to so that they don't have to take it. It makes it easier for them to just do their job, and they want to do well for you, because you have protected them. Ultimately, Chiarelli is responsible for the team's performance, and so him taking the heat publicly, rather than saying that players at specific positions are underperforming doesn't endanger his job any more than it already is, and it is more likely to make the players want to play for him.

Out of interest, did anyone else notice Nugent-Hopkins' reaction when they asked about the GM's press conference in his post-game interview yesterday?



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 Re: Chia says Hello World [message #704089 is a reply to message #704086 ]
Wed, 29 November 2017 10:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Wed, 29 November 2017 10:37

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 29 November 2017 08:54


He's not trying to trade for a goalie or dump Talbot though. His team were listed as one of the cup contenders by a ton of hockey people at the start of the year. His goalie was in the conversation of the vezina last year and there were some that felt he should have been in the running for the award. Even Talbot himself says he hasn't been that good. So I don't see the harm in admitting the blatantly obvious that your goalie hasn't been good enough when all the numbers say he isn't and even the player himself says it.

I guess if your players are so fragile mentally that they physically can't handle anyone saying anything other than sunshine and rainbows BS, then sure go ahead and lie. In thinking about it, maybe that is true. Maybe these guys are so weak mentally you have to stroke them and lie and pretend everything is OK. Maybe Chia should of went Mac T and said "I think Talbot is winning the vezina this year and who ever calculates those numbers doesn't know what he is doing. I also think that Klefbom is this years Norris winner, book it!" If you are going to stand in front of people and lie to their face about how 2 of your most critical players have played, then why not go all out. People will call Chia a liar and an idiot for not acknowledging how they play, might as well do it up right. Based on what Eberle said about the mean old media saying mean things when he was playing like crap and costing the team games and how it ruined his game, maybe what I am saying isn't completely crazy after all.


It's not about mental weakness. It's about showing support for your guys. Your players should feel like management and coaches have their backs and that they are always defended. That's how you build a great team culture.

Coaches and management should insulate the team and make them feel that it's us against the world and that even if we have harsh words for you inside the room, when it comes to outside the room, we're going to tell people they're wrong if they suggest the exact same criticism we just gave you.

I think that teams, especially Canadian teams, need to be conscious of how bright that spotlight is, and how much of an echo chamber it can be when there are public criticisms of players out there. It isn't about saying "suck it up, you're making millions to play a game." That's not going to actually soften the blow of having the whole city you're living in angry about the mistakes you're making on the ice, and reminding you of it constantly. By focussing only on the positive regarding players publicly, you refuse to stoke those fires from the mob. By defending passionately your player against hatchet pieces from media, you put doubt in to the minds of the fan who might have otherwise booed the player next game.

I had something happen at work a while ago, where there was a screw-up made in a deliverable to the client. It was missed until the client saw it, and he wasn't happy. Now, I could have thrown my analyst under the bus on that. The client doesn't even know him, and it would have reduced the heat on me. There were higher ups from my company involved, and they weren't thrilled by the mistake too. I simply took full responsibility for the error. After all, I am ultimately responsible for the product anyhow.

I made sure that those reporting to me knew that A) they screwed up and that we need to be better in the future but also B) that I took responsibility, that I didn't even mention their name to the higher ups when discussing the error. It's the same philosophy with GM and coach. You protect those downstream and take any abuse that you have to so that they don't have to take it. It makes it easier for them to just do their job, and they want to do well for you, because you have protected them. Ultimately, Chiarelli is responsible for the team's performance, and so him taking the heat publicly, rather than saying that players at specific positions are underperforming doesn't endanger his job any more than it already is, and it is more likely to make the players want to play for him.

Out of interest, did anyone else notice Nugent-Hopkins' reaction when they asked about the GM's press conference in his post-game interview yesterday?

You don't need to sugar coat everything with a player but at the same time you shouldn't be flat out lying to their face and saying everything is just fine when things aren't. You can show support of a player by saying he's not playing up to his capabilities and know what they can be better because you have seen it. That's saying you are better than your play is showing, you know you are better, we know you are better, we need you to step up. On that note, I thought Talbot was damn good last night and Klefbom had one of his better games in a while. Don't you?

Since you listed a work example. I have one as well. Every January, we as a ownership group meet for an all day meeting to go over everything from numbers, profits, mistakes and staff. It's grueling. Every year the same guy came up as do we keep him or let him go. He's capable of doing better than he does but usually his work takes longer than it should and he makes careless mistakes. His projects often don't do overly well money wise. So the decision was made to finally let him go. He was a good guy, well liked, with us for over 10 yrs but enough was enough. I along with our main manager were the ones in the meeting with him to let him go. We both were the ones that hired him so we both worked with him his entire time at our company. It was really hard and it SUCKED as I liked him a lot personally. After he got over the shock, the first thing out of his mouth was "Why didn't anyone say anything to me if I was doing that bad." The guy he worked under never told him anything. He would just give him work, then deal with the problems that this guys caused. Then in our meeting about our project would complain about the guy. Then in our January meeting, complained about him and advocated for him to be let go. The guy in charge of this guy LIED to him and pretended everything was just fine when behind the scenes it wasn't. Now if he had of been honest with him and told him you need to be better, would he have changed? Hard to say but we will never know.



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 Re: Chia says Hello World [message #704090 is a reply to message #704089 ]
Wed, 29 November 2017 10:59 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 29 November 2017 10:54


You don't need to sugar coat everything with a player but at the same time you shouldn't be flat out lying to their face and saying everything is just fine when things aren't.


I think I've made this clear, but in case I didn't - you aren't telling a player the same thing in private that you're saying in public.

Behind closed doors, you are giving very honest feedback. Hockey has an advantage there over most lines of work, because you can actually show the video and say what you want to see happening in specific situations.

The sunshine and roses is only with the press and the fans. They don't need you to air that out.

To use your example, the equivalent would be providing the feedback to the employee, but doing it at the company picnic in front of everyone. That would likely have made him quit. There's lots of opportunity to give feedback, it just shouldn't be public.



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