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 Chia a finalist for GM of the Year award [message #694732]
Tue, 16 May 2017 17:07 Go to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Edmonton Oilers @EdmontonOilers
#Oilers Peter Chiarelli, @Senators Pierre Dorion & @PredsNHL David Poile named finalists for @NHL GM of the Year Award. Congrats, Peter!


Poile probably deserves it most. Trading Weber for younger better Weber was huge. And he build this D group he has from scratch, and finally has some C depth after so many years of having none.

Not sure what Dorin did aside from inherit Karlsson and the rest of that team last off-season. Guess he made the Brassard trade, but Zibanejad was fine in the playoffs for NYR too.

Chia deserves a lot of credit for the D rebuild so far, even though 1 piece of it came with a big price tag.

[Updated on: Tue, 16 May 2017 18:45]


"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Chia a finalist for GM of the Year award [message #694747 is a reply to message #694732 ]
Wed, 17 May 2017 09:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 16 May 2017 17:07

Edmonton Oilers @EdmontonOilers
#Oilers Peter Chiarelli, @Senators Pierre Dorion & @PredsNHL David Poile named finalists for @NHL GM of the Year Award. Congrats, Peter!


Poile probably deserves it most. Trading Weber for younger better Weber was huge. And he build this D group he has from scratch, and finally has some C depth after so many years of having none.

Not sure what Dorin did aside from inherit Karlsson and the rest of that team last off-season. Guess he made the Brassard trade, but Zibanejad was fine in the playoffs for NYR too.

Chia deserves a lot of credit for the D rebuild so far, even though 1 piece of it came with a big price tag.


I don't think he deserves the award. The Talbot trade was from a year before, and let's be clear, Talbot, McDavid and health are the biggest reasons the Oilers were better. Larsson/Hall is far from a clear win. Big risk - so maybe he gets points simply for gambling?

What were his moves?

Hall for Larsson - will be forever debated, especially since he said at the time that he gave up the better player, and yet somehow didn't even get a seventh round draft pick thrown in.
Sign UFA Lucic - there was certainly no underpay to get #27 here and the term looks ugly. Just 25 ES points this year, his lowest numbers since 2009-10, despite an extended push with McDavid.
Sign UFA Gustavsson - terrible at the time, somehow still didn't live up to even the lowest expectations
Sign UFA Russell - adequate depth defenceman
Re-sign UFA Gryba - inadequate depth defenceman
Trade Davidson for Desharnais - meh.

Anything else? He stood pat at the deadline, which may be good in the long-term, but considering how close we were to the third round, you have to wonder what another defenceman might have meant for this team this year.

I don't think Chiarelli was close to good enough in the last year, and he'll have to be much, much better if this team is going to move forward. We can't live on the hopes that we'll always be as healthy as we were this year. Our defence is still not very good. Watching other teams play underlines just how bad the Oilers break-out was this year. We need more defencemen who can make a pass.



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#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #ChiaOnNotice

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 Re: Chia a finalist for GM of the Year award [message #694749 is a reply to message #694747 ]
Wed, 17 May 2017 11:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OilPeg  is currently offline OilPeg
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Adam wrote on Wed, 17 May 2017 10:10

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 16 May 2017 17:07

Edmonton Oilers @EdmontonOilers
#Oilers Peter Chiarelli, @Senators Pierre Dorion & @PredsNHL David Poile named finalists for @NHL GM of the Year Award. Congrats, Peter!


Poile probably deserves it most. Trading Weber for younger better Weber was huge. And he build this D group he has from scratch, and finally has some C depth after so many years of having none.

Not sure what Dorin did aside from inherit Karlsson and the rest of that team last off-season. Guess he made the Brassard trade, but Zibanejad was fine in the playoffs for NYR too.

Chia deserves a lot of credit for the D rebuild so far, even though 1 piece of it came with a big price tag.


I don't think he deserves the award. The Talbot trade was from a year before, and let's be clear, Talbot, McDavid and health are the biggest reasons the Oilers were better. Larsson/Hall is far from a clear win. Big risk - so maybe he gets points simply for gambling?

What were his moves?

Hall for Larsson - will be forever debated, especially since he said at the time that he gave up the better player, and yet somehow didn't even get a seventh round draft pick thrown in.
Sign UFA Lucic - there was certainly no underpay to get #27 here and the term looks ugly. Just 25 ES points this year, his lowest numbers since 2009-10, despite an extended push with McDavid.
Sign UFA Gustavsson - terrible at the time, somehow still didn't live up to even the lowest expectations
Sign UFA Russell - adequate depth defenceman
Re-sign UFA Gryba - inadequate depth defenceman
Trade Davidson for Desharnais - meh.

Anything else? He stood pat at the deadline, which may be good in the long-term, but considering how close we were to the third round, you have to wonder what another defenceman might have meant for this team this year.

I don't think Chiarelli was close to good enough in the last year, and he'll have to be much, much better if this team is going to move forward. We can't live on the hopes that we'll always be as healthy as we were this year. Our defence is still not very good. Watching other teams play underlines just how bad the Oilers break-out was this year. We need more defencemen who can make a pass.


Well whoever votes for this thing obviously feels that he was at worst the 3rd best in the league.



Skookum Jim wrote on Sat, 02 June 2012 00:29

But he (Belanger)'s as soft as room temp. margarine.

Twitter: @penuita15

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 Re: Chia a finalist for GM of the Year award [message #694770 is a reply to message #694747 ]
Wed, 17 May 2017 21:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gator21  is currently offline Gator21
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Adam wrote on Wed, 17 May 2017 09:10

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 16 May 2017 17:07

Edmonton Oilers @EdmontonOilers
#Oilers Peter Chiarelli, @Senators Pierre Dorion & @PredsNHL David Poile named finalists for @NHL GM of the Year Award. Congrats, Peter!


Poile probably deserves it most. Trading Weber for younger better Weber was huge. And he build this D group he has from scratch, and finally has some C depth after so many years of having none.

Not sure what Dorin did aside from inherit Karlsson and the rest of that team last off-season. Guess he made the Brassard trade, but Zibanejad was fine in the playoffs for NYR too.

Chia deserves a lot of credit for the D rebuild so far, even though 1 piece of it came with a big price tag.


I don't think he deserves the award. The Talbot trade was from a year before, and let's be clear, Talbot, McDavid and health are the biggest reasons the Oilers were better. Larsson/Hall is far from a clear win. Big risk - so maybe he gets points simply for gambling?

What were his moves?

Hall for Larsson - will be forever debated, especially since he said at the time that he gave up the better player, and yet somehow didn't even get a seventh round draft pick thrown in.
Sign UFA Lucic - there was certainly no underpay to get #27 here and the term looks ugly. Just 25 ES points this year, his lowest numbers since 2009-10, despite an extended push with McDavid.
Sign UFA Gustavsson - terrible at the time, somehow still didn't live up to even the lowest expectations
Sign UFA Russell - adequate depth defenceman
Re-sign UFA Gryba - inadequate depth defenceman
Trade Davidson for Desharnais - meh.

Anything else? He stood pat at the deadline, which may be good in the long-term, but considering how close we were to the third round, you have to wonder what another defenceman might have meant for this team this year.

I don't think Chiarelli was close to good enough in the last year, and he'll have to be much, much better if this team is going to move forward. We can't live on the hopes that we'll always be as healthy as we were this year. Our defence is still not very good. Watching other teams play underlines just how bad the Oilers break-out was this year. We need more defencemen who can make a pass.


He took a team that was 1 point from last place last year to a team that was 1 win away from the West final. Personally, I'm happy that team finally has a vision and direction to it rather than nitpick our GM for no apparent reason.

If you won't to go over his record with a fine tooth comb as to what trades he made/didn't make in the last calendar year than go ahead but the truth is there are barely any trades made outside of the trade deadline and even then no major deals really, plus most of those deal can't really be evaluated until the playoffs have concluded and believe this is voted on during the regular season.

Just out of curiosity who are your 3 finalists?



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 Re: Chia a finalist for GM of the Year award [message #694772 is a reply to message #694770 ]
Thu, 18 May 2017 08:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Gator21 wrote on Wed, 17 May 2017 21:17

Adam wrote on Wed, 17 May 2017 09:10

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 16 May 2017 17:07

Edmonton Oilers @EdmontonOilers
#Oilers Peter Chiarelli, @Senators Pierre Dorion & @PredsNHL David Poile named finalists for @NHL GM of the Year Award. Congrats, Peter!


Poile probably deserves it most. Trading Weber for younger better Weber was huge. And he build this D group he has from scratch, and finally has some C depth after so many years of having none.

Not sure what Dorin did aside from inherit Karlsson and the rest of that team last off-season. Guess he made the Brassard trade, but Zibanejad was fine in the playoffs for NYR too.

Chia deserves a lot of credit for the D rebuild so far, even though 1 piece of it came with a big price tag.


I don't think he deserves the award. The Talbot trade was from a year before, and let's be clear, Talbot, McDavid and health are the biggest reasons the Oilers were better. Larsson/Hall is far from a clear win. Big risk - so maybe he gets points simply for gambling?

What were his moves?

Hall for Larsson - will be forever debated, especially since he said at the time that he gave up the better player, and yet somehow didn't even get a seventh round draft pick thrown in.
Sign UFA Lucic - there was certainly no underpay to get #27 here and the term looks ugly. Just 25 ES points this year, his lowest numbers since 2009-10, despite an extended push with McDavid.
Sign UFA Gustavsson - terrible at the time, somehow still didn't live up to even the lowest expectations
Sign UFA Russell - adequate depth defenceman
Re-sign UFA Gryba - inadequate depth defenceman
Trade Davidson for Desharnais - meh.

Anything else? He stood pat at the deadline, which may be good in the long-term, but considering how close we were to the third round, you have to wonder what another defenceman might have meant for this team this year.

I don't think Chiarelli was close to good enough in the last year, and he'll have to be much, much better if this team is going to move forward. We can't live on the hopes that we'll always be as healthy as we were this year. Our defence is still not very good. Watching other teams play underlines just how bad the Oilers break-out was this year. We need more defencemen who can make a pass.


He took a team that was 1 point from last place last year to a team that was 1 win away from the West final. Personally, I'm happy that team finally has a vision and direction to it rather than nitpick our GM for no apparent reason.

If you won't to go over his record with a fine tooth comb as to what trades he made/didn't make in the last calendar year than go ahead but the truth is there are barely any trades made outside of the trade deadline and even then no major deals really, plus most of those deal can't really be evaluated until the playoffs have concluded and believe this is voted on during the regular season.

Just out of curiosity who are your 3 finalists?


See the issue is that the people who say Chia doesn't deserve the award or even to be nominated believe that all the Oilers needed was McDavid. If you are a person who believes that the Oilers success was solely the result of McDavid mostly, Talbot next, then the Oilers could have kept the exact same team as last year and as long as McDavid was healthy, they would be fine.

The Oilers in the 15-16 season had 70 pts and were -42 goal diff. In the 16-17 season they had 103 pts and +35 goal diff. So that is a 33 pt, 77 goal improvement. If you look at the Oilers roster from the 15-16 season.http://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/EDM/2016.html Assuming he made no trades before the deadline or after and no signings on defense and had the same guys as he did for much of the season to start the 16-17 season. The Oilers defense would have looked something like this:
Klefbom J. Schultz
Sekera Fayne
Davidson Nurse
Maybe a Gryba, Clendening, Pardy

A person can complain about Schultz and what he is doing now. Well he wasn't doing that on the Oilers. Never going to happen. For whatever reason it clicked with the Pens, probably because he wasn't expected to do much early and their team is so stacked. Schultz had a hell of a season and will most definitely get paid. He will price himself out of the Pens, move to another weaker team that can afford/needs defense and he will not be close to as good because the team he goes too won't be stacked and won't have 2 hall of famers at center.

If you look at the 15-16 defense, sorry but I have a hard time believing a team with a defense like that improves by 33 pts and 77 goals. Other than Sekera, who CHia SIGNED, that is the defense Chia inherited. I have no doubt that having McDavid for the whole year would have improved them some from 70 pts. I have no doubt Talbot would have played well but no way as good behind a defense like that. A goalie can only do so much.

The Oilers 16-17 defense when everyone is healthy was:
Klefbom - Larsson
Sekera - Russell
Nurse - Benning

So he added 3 new dmen this past season and 4 over the last 2 years. While I wouldn't call it a championship defense it is light years better than the year previous. While Talbot was awesome, he also had a superior defense in front of him to help.



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 Re: Chia a finalist for GM of the Year award [message #694773 is a reply to message #694770 ]
Thu, 18 May 2017 08:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Gator21 wrote on Wed, 17 May 2017 21:17


Just out of curiosity who are your 3 finalists?


Well, if I'm in charge of the award:

A) I fold it. It's unnecessary and there's too much behind the scenes to make a really good judgement.

B) If I'm not able to get rid of it, I at least clarify the rules of what it's recognizing, and pick a group of voters, rather than a grab bag of people who may or may not know what the hell they're talking about.

C) If I'm picking criteria, I'm looking at cap management, maintaining a winning record rather than just showing single season improvement, trade record, free agent signing record and championships.

It's a stupid award to begin with, and it's hard to properly evaluate general managers on a single year.

If I have to pick nominees, Poile feels like a good choice. Bowman as I said before manages to keep his team at the top of the league despite some real pressures on his salary cap - finding new pieces to slot in and replace guys (like bringing in Panarin for Saad) when he's forced to trade them away is a big part of that. Maybe Rutherford for similar reasons - Rust, Sheary, etc. are great cheap pieces that have played big roles, and he was able to get a 50 point defencemen out of Edmonton for pennies (although that was last year - see the difficulty here?)



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 Re: Chia a finalist for GM of the Year award [message #694750 is a reply to message #694732 ]
Wed, 17 May 2017 12:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
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I'm not entirely sure how they choose this criteria, because good moves from a GM sometimes take years to come to fruition. Chiarelli has made some great moves that have directly benefitted this year's team, but most were earlier than this last calendar year.

The good prior to this year:

- Klefbom contract
- Talbot trade and contract
- Kassian trade.
- Maroon trade.

The good this year:

- Larsson (mixed on this; trade wasn't good, but contract and term are going to be insanely helpful moving forward).
- Benning signing
- Caggiula signing
- holding strong on Columbus' push at the draft and landing Puljujarvi.
- not trading Draisaitl, Nurse, and a 1st for Subban (even though I wanted it at the time).

He's had his fair share of bad moves this year too, many of which Adam highlighted. Overall, I like the direction he has this team moving, I think he's done fairly good, and is easily the best GM we've had since Sather. But that's a low bar; I'm not sure he's Top-3 in the NHL, and yet I'll give him credit for moving this team in the right direction.

Poile like wins this (deservedly) anyway.



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 Re: Chia a finalist for GM of the Year award [message #694751 is a reply to message #694750 ]
Wed, 17 May 2017 12:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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It's kind of funny/ I find it a bit sad. Chia comes in and takes over a team that has been terrible for 9 years. He gets lucky and wins the McDvaid draft no doubt. He comes in and in 2 seasons, goes from a dead last team to a team 2 points out of first in their division. 33 pt improvement. They host and win a round, go to game 7 in the next round and one could argue the Oilers get screwed. The huge majority of his trades and signing have worked out but many fans say he doesn't deserve a lot of credit. Some say he's done a crappy job which is crazy to me. This team is apparently nothing but McDavid and Talbot. No one else does anything apparently.

I get the feeling that if the Oilers went on to win the Stanley Cup and do it by sweeping every series with Larsson scoring the cup winning goal in OT, there would be some who would say "Well I'm still on the fence with the Hall trade". Then they would immediately pick apart the few bad moves.

I'd love to see which GM is perfect and never makes a mistake? The finalists are voted on by other GM's so obviously they think Chia did a good job and the rise of the Oilers wasn't all just McDavid and Talbot.

[Updated on: Wed, 17 May 2017 13:06]


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 Re: Chia a finalist for GM of the Year award [message #694754 is a reply to message #694751 ]
Wed, 17 May 2017 13:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 17 May 2017 12:25

It's kind of funny/ I find it a bit sad. Chia comes in and takes over a team that has been terrible for 9 years. He gets lucky and wins the McDvaid draft no doubt. He comes in and in 2 seasons, goes from a dead last team to a team 2 points out of first in their division. 33 pt improvement. They host and win a round, go to game 7 in the next round and one could argue the Oilers get screwed. The huge majority of his trades and signing have worked out but many fans say he doesn't deserve a lot of credit. Some say he's done a crappy job which is crazy to me. This team is apparently nothing but McDavid and Talbot. No one else does anything apparently.

I get the feeling that if the Oilers went on to win the Stanley Cup and do it by sweeping every series with Larsson scoring the cup winning goal in OT, there would be some who would say "Well I'm still on the fence with the Hall trade". Then they would immediately pick apart the few bad moves.

I'd love to see which GM is perfect and never makes a mistake? The finalists are voted on by other GM's so obviously they think Chia did a good job and the rise of the Oilers wasn't all just McDavid and Talbot.

I think the Oilers fans have gotten the bends rising so fast from the depth of the MacTavish era, however that doesn't mean that we can't review and critic the job Chiarelli has done. Without question he's been than his 3 predecessors, but that's feint praise. Is he one of the top in the league? I don't know, but his peers thought so this year and I got to watch hockey I cared about in May. So yay for him. The Hall trade was also pretty damn ballsy.



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 Re: Chia a finalist for GM of the Year award [message #694764 is a reply to message #694754 ]
Wed, 17 May 2017 16:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 17 May 2017 13:09

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 17 May 2017 12:25

It's kind of funny/ I find it a bit sad. Chia comes in and takes over a team that has been terrible for 9 years. He gets lucky and wins the McDvaid draft no doubt. He comes in and in 2 seasons, goes from a dead last team to a team 2 points out of first in their division. 33 pt improvement. They host and win a round, go to game 7 in the next round and one could argue the Oilers get screwed. The huge majority of his trades and signing have worked out but many fans say he doesn't deserve a lot of credit. Some say he's done a crappy job which is crazy to me. This team is apparently nothing but McDavid and Talbot. No one else does anything apparently.

I get the feeling that if the Oilers went on to win the Stanley Cup and do it by sweeping every series with Larsson scoring the cup winning goal in OT, there would be some who would say "Well I'm still on the fence with the Hall trade". Then they would immediately pick apart the few bad moves.

I'd love to see which GM is perfect and never makes a mistake? The finalists are voted on by other GM's so obviously they think Chia did a good job and the rise of the Oilers wasn't all just McDavid and Talbot.

I think the Oilers fans have gotten the bends rising so fast from the depth of the MacTavish era, however that doesn't mean that we can't review and critic the job Chiarelli has done. Without question he's been than his 3 predecessors, but that's feint praise. Is he one of the top in the league? I don't know, but his peers thought so this year and I got to watch hockey I cared about in May. So yay for him. The Hall trade was also pretty damn ballsy.


There isn't a GM that is perfect out there. They have their hits and misses. You hope they have WAY more hits that misses and they make their team better. Chia did that. The rose 33 pts in the standings, that's an incredible feat. Did McDavid and Talbot contribute big time to that. Of course they did. But go down the list of the good teams and usually they have their star players and their goalies playing well. Last time I checked the Pens had both Crosby and Malkin having pretty good years and their goalies played well. So to pin the success of the Oilers solely on McDavid and Talbot and have some say Chia isn't deserving of the nomination is I think a incorrect statement. The nominations are made by the other GM's in the league. It's not like its the Oilers brass picking out their own guy.

Jim Rutherford won GM of the year last year. In case someone doesn't know what team he manages, it's the Pens. Last time I checked, that team has 2 of the top 10 players on the league on his team. So I guess that means he didn't deserve it based on that.

I got no problem if someone wants to critic the job he does. But when he does a decent enough job to get recognized, I shake my head when some people decide to only focus on the few negatives and say he doesn't deserve it when people who do the physical job, say he did.

[Updated on: Wed, 17 May 2017 16:13]


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 Re: Chia a finalist for GM of the Year award [message #694756 is a reply to message #694751 ]
Wed, 17 May 2017 13:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
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But does anyone really know what criteria this is based on? That kind of makes a difference in evaluation, no?


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 Re: Chia a finalist for GM of the Year award [message #694757 is a reply to message #694756 ]
Wed, 17 May 2017 13:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 17 May 2017 13:29

But does anyone really know what criteria this is based on? That kind of makes a difference in evaluation, no?

Maybe there's a rotation and it's just dumb luck MacTavish, Low, and Tambo missed out?



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 Re: Chia a finalist for GM of the Year award [message #694759 is a reply to message #694757 ]
Wed, 17 May 2017 13:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 17 May 2017 13:43

mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 17 May 2017 13:29

But does anyone really know what criteria this is based on? That kind of makes a difference in evaluation, no?

Maybe there's a rotation and it's just dumb luck MacTavish, Low, and Tambo missed out?


"It's just the cyclical nature of the business."

Sather probably should have been named GM of the year in 1997-98. Not only did the team make the playoffs again and knock off the star-loaded Avs in the first round, but in December, he traded two busts (Kelly & Bonsignore) and a guy who was constantly suspended (Marchment) for a first pairing defenceman (Hamrlik). By that logic though, we're still 10 years away from the Oilers' next turn as GM of the year.



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 Re: Chia a finalist for GM of the Year award [message #694760 is a reply to message #694759 ]
Wed, 17 May 2017 14:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Adam wrote on Wed, 17 May 2017 13:51

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 17 May 2017 13:43

mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 17 May 2017 13:29

But does anyone really know what criteria this is based on? That kind of makes a difference in evaluation, no?

Maybe there's a rotation and it's just dumb luck MacTavish, Low, and Tambo missed out?


"It's just the cyclical nature of the business."

Sather probably should have been named GM of the year in 1997-98. Not only did the team make the playoffs again and knock off the star-loaded Avs in the first round, but in December, he traded two busts (Kelly & Bonsignore) and a guy who was constantly suspended (Marchment) for a first pairing defenceman (Hamrlik). By that logic though, we're still 10 years away from the Oilers' next turn as GM of the year.

It bugs me how little respect the 98 and 99 teams get. They were so close to being contenders. Sather did a really good job rebuilding the entire organization after the Pocklington induced tire fire only to have it completely sewered by the EIG hiring someone with absolutely no ability to do the job.



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 Re: Chia a finalist for GM of the Year award [message #694755 is a reply to message #694750 ]
Wed, 17 May 2017 13:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 17 May 2017 12:02

Overall, I like the direction he has this team moving, I think he's done fairly good, and is easily the best GM we've had since Sather. But that's a low bar; I'm not sure he's Top-3 in the NHL, and yet I'll give him credit for moving this team in the right direction.

Poile like wins this (deservedly) anyway.



I agree with pretty much everything you said here. Definitely the best since Sather, and it's not close. To be fair, I didn't remember to add the Benning and Caggiula signings. Those were important pieces.

And I completely agree that some of his past moves are a big part of the steps forward - Talbot, Kassian, Maroon - but if this is an award for this year? Then I don't see it. And if it's not, and its based on a longer track record, then maybe Bowman in Chicago should get it every year for keeping that team towards the top of the heap while balancing some pretty big challenges with the salary cap.

I think that cap management piece is awfully over-rated - it's the difference between teams who have one good season and teams who are perennially contenders. The Oilers are only just starting to deal with it (although it's telling how bad Lowe, Tambellini and MacTavish were that they spent to the cap and were still so, so awful.) That Nashville always contends and almost never spends to the cap is extremely impressive so Poile is a deserving candidate.

It does seem an odd award though. I'm not sure if there was a need for a Best GM award. Isn't that the Stanley Cup?



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 Re: Chia a finalist for GM of the Year award [message #694758 is a reply to message #694755 ]
Wed, 17 May 2017 13:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Adam wrote on Wed, 17 May 2017 13:29

mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 17 May 2017 12:02

Overall, I like the direction he has this team moving, I think he's done fairly good, and is easily the best GM we've had since Sather. But that's a low bar; I'm not sure he's Top-3 in the NHL, and yet I'll give him credit for moving this team in the right direction.

Poile like wins this (deservedly) anyway.



I agree with pretty much everything you said here. Definitely the best since Sather, and it's not close. To be fair, I didn't remember to add the Benning and Caggiula signings. Those were important pieces.

And I completely agree that some of his past moves are a big part of the steps forward - Talbot, Kassian, Maroon - but if this is an award for this year? Then I don't see it. And if it's not, and its based on a longer track record, then maybe Bowman in Chicago should get it every year for keeping that team towards the top of the heap while balancing some pretty big challenges with the salary cap.

I think that cap management piece is awfully over-rated - it's the difference between teams who have one good season and teams who are perennially contenders. The Oilers are only just starting to deal with it (although it's telling how bad Lowe, Tambellini and MacTavish were that they spent to the cap and were still so, so awful.) That Nashville always contends and almost never spends to the cap is extremely impressive so Poile is a deserving candidate.

It does seem an odd award though. I'm not sure if there was a need for a Best GM award. Isn't that the Stanley Cup?


Thinking it's seen as more of a 1.5 year window kind of a award. With anything beyond that being kind considered, but only if it fits in with the more recent narrative. Which is why I would say Poile is far and away the winner. People remember the important moves that make a difference for the recent success being celebrated, and Poile has been piecing this team together for years. His org has been a quality Dman factory for years, and he's finally added the C depth.

Think luck is always a part of being a successful GM. Even Bowman, his job is just surrounding the same guys he inherited (mainly Kane, Toews, Hossa, Keith and Seabrook) and has been riding since he took the job. Kinda what Chia's job will be now. That's way less impressive to me than Poile's long build that is coming to fruition now. Did Shero or Rutherford really deserve their wins? Riding generational and borderline generational C's to victory.

I think Chia does deserve some credit, even if a lot of his success, like many other GM's came down to some luck. The change from 1-2 years ago from the team culture to the performance on the ice has been huge.

[Updated on: Wed, 17 May 2017 21:54]


"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Chia a finalist for GM of the Year award [message #694761 is a reply to message #694755 ]
Wed, 17 May 2017 14:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jds308  is currently offline jds308
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Adam wrote on Wed, 17 May 2017 12:29

mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 17 May 2017 12:02

Overall, I like the direction he has this team moving, I think he's done fairly good, and is easily the best GM we've had since Sather. But that's a low bar; I'm not sure he's Top-3 in the NHL, and yet I'll give him credit for moving this team in the right direction.

Poile like wins this (deservedly) anyway.



I agree with pretty much everything you said here. Definitely the best since Sather, and it's not close. To be fair, I didn't remember to add the Benning and Caggiula signings. Those were important pieces.

And I completely agree that some of his past moves are a big part of the steps forward - Talbot, Kassian, Maroon - but if this is an award for this year? Then I don't see it. And if it's not, and its based on a longer track record, then maybe Bowman in Chicago should get it every year for keeping that team towards the top of the heap while balancing some pretty big challenges with the salary cap.

I think that cap management piece is awfully over-rated - it's the difference between teams who have one good season and teams who are perennially contenders. The Oilers are only just starting to deal with it (although it's telling how bad Lowe, Tambellini and MacTavish were that they spent to the cap and were still so, so awful.) That Nashville always contends and almost never spends to the cap is extremely impressive so Poile is a deserving candidate.

It does seem an odd award though. I'm not sure if there was a need for a Best GM award. Isn't that the Stanley Cup?



Without knowing what the criteria is for the "GM of the Year" it's awfully hard to criticize or evaluate these candidates. To be honest, I see this award similar to the "Coach of the Year" award. How does anyone really know who the most deserving coach is? What metric is used to determine this? In both cases you could look at winning record, improvement year over year, or maybe a team that significantly over-achieved vs expectations. The last example is more of a "feel good" award in my opinion and sure, it deserves some accolades but an award? I don't know about that, it's a step above a participation award! Essentially these awards are based on team performance more than anything so why not have awards like "most improved winning %", "best goal differential", or "fewest PIMs"? Because they are measurable and would not insight conversation or debate, not to mention they wouldn't need to be voted upon and build up suspense for the awards show. I mean seriously, is there a coach in the league that's truly a horrible coach? There's likely several that aren't good fits for their team, or others that might be in a bit over their heads, but to get an NHL coaching job (or GM job) you must have had some form of success prior and know something about what you're doing?

**disclaimer** I realize while writing this how hypocritical this might sounds coming from an Oilers fan having just lived through a decade of rookie coaches and GM's thinking they are the smartest peeps in the business. But to be fair, we all knew our coaches and GM's were crap and nobody in their right mind would have voted them for an award.

At the end of the day, like a lot of things in the NHL, I don't really give a crap about the awards. It's an off ice all-star game. It's nice that the Oilers have a lot of nominations this year, and could/should arguably even have a couple more. I like that the Oilers are making headlines in a positive way, showing that they are a relevant franchise once again. If an Oiler wins an award I'll be happy about it, less so for the individual but more for the team. Obviously McDavid already has the Art Ross and a legit shot at the Hart and that's great. How much of McDavid's individual success rubs off on the coach and GM of the year nominations? By that I mean, without McDavid, do either get nominated? Not trying to say that TMac and Chia aren't good at what they do, but my point is how to you evaluate, rate or vote for something like that? The coach and GM award seem more like a popularity contest than anything else.

I'm likely way overthinking this whole thing, simply put.... I'm still pissed off that the NHL/ref's screwed the Oilers out of playing in the West final and having to discuss the stupid awards is just making me more agitated. Happy off-season.

[Updated on: Wed, 17 May 2017 14:34]


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 Re: Chia a finalist for GM of the Year award [message #694762 is a reply to message #694761 ]
Wed, 17 May 2017 14:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GabbyDugan  is currently offline GabbyDugan
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Indeed, there seems to be no standards at all for picking the nominees.....

https://www.nhl.com/news/nhl-announces-gm-of-the-year-finali sts/c-289468190?tid=280503612

"Voting was conducted among general managers, a panel of League executives, and print and broadcast media following the second round of the Stanley Cup Playoffs."...sounds more like a survey than a formal standard.....

the previous winners seem like a mixed bag of success/failure over the long haul...

General Managers of the Year Winners

2016: Jim Rutherford, Pittsburgh Penguins
2015: Steve Yzerman, Tampa Bay Lightning
2014: Bob Murray, Anaheim Ducks
2013: Ray Shero, Pittsburgh Penguins
2012: Doug Armstrong, St. Louis Blues
2011: Mike Gillis, Vancouver Canucks
2010: Don Maloney, Phoenix Coyotes

...I have no doubt Chiarelli works hard (and also mostly works smart), but he also had some good fortune smile on him...the Oilers were able to have most of their key players stay healthy through the entire season, and the new arena provided a lot of positive energy for the team and the fan base....he came in to a situation where the team was in chaos and, along with others in management, turned the team in the right direction....





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 Re: Chia a finalist for GM of the Year award [message #694774 is a reply to message #694762 ]
Thu, 18 May 2017 08:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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People will debate the Hall trade forever. I would love to know what people think was fair value for Hall? I don't see how the Oilers could get anyone better than Larsson straight up. The Preds traded for Subban. It looks like they won that trade. However, they traded and Olympian in Weber for a guy who didn't play but was on the last Olympic team and in the mix all the time. Sorry but Hall isn't close to that. So would would it have taken to get Weber or Subban? Hall, their first and a young dman? Sorry but that's too much.

People complain about the Lucic contract. Like it or not, UFA's always get more money and term than they should. Shattenkirk is the #1 UFA on the market. He's going to get way more money than he should and longer term than he should. So what's the solution? Never sign a UFA? I guess you could do that. Am I worried about the last year of 2 of his contract? Sure but I don't think you get him without those years. Its been reported by him and other plugged in sources he had other teams all over him as well. They say Lucic had a bad year. He had 23 goals, 50 pts, over 200 hits, had a few fights and was identified as critical to helping him as captain by McDavid. So for Lucic to have a good year, what did he need to do? Score 2 more goals and 5 more pts? The center he played with for most of the year had a 43 pts season. The right winger he spent a lot of time with had a 20 goal, 51 pt year. Which is 7-10 goals and 10-15 pts below where he should be. If those 2 had better years like they should have, would Lucic probably have at least a couple more goals and a few more pts. Probably.



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 Re: Chia a finalist for GM of the Year award [message #694779 is a reply to message #694774 ]
Thu, 18 May 2017 10:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 18 May 2017 07:56

So for Lucic to have a good year, what did he need to do? Score 2 more goals and 5 more pts? The center he played with for most of the year had a 43 pts season. The right winger he spent a lot of time with had a 20 goal, 51 pt year. Which is 7-10 goals and 10-15 pts below where he should be. If those 2 had better years like they should have, would Lucic probably have at least a couple more goals and a few more pts. Probably.


Are we sure Lucic wasn't the problem?



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 Re: Chia a finalist for GM of the Year award [message #694792 is a reply to message #694779 ]
Thu, 18 May 2017 16:08 Go to previous message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Goose wrote on Thu, 18 May 2017 10:23

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 18 May 2017 07:56

So for Lucic to have a good year, what did he need to do? Score 2 more goals and 5 more pts? The center he played with for most of the year had a 43 pts season. The right winger he spent a lot of time with had a 20 goal, 51 pt year. Which is 7-10 goals and 10-15 pts below where he should be. If those 2 had better years like they should have, would Lucic probably have at least a couple more goals and a few more pts. Probably.


Are we sure Lucic wasn't the problem?


What was Nuge's excuse then in 15-16 before Lucic came to the Oilers? He wasn't very good that year either.



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