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 New deal for Jones [message #603090]
Sat, 06 July 2013 14:36 Go to next message
Marc  is currently offline Marc
Messages: 1780
Registered: July 2008
Location: Michigan

1 Cup

Haven't seen anything outside of Jones' Twitter, but I assume that should be a good enough source

"@jonesry28: In the words of Eminem, "It feels so good to be back!!" #OilCity"



"Third? Not third in the West, either? Overall? I think that... well. marijuana's legal in some areas." Whitney on Oilers being ranked #3 by SI

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 Re: New deal for Jones [message #603091 is a reply to message #603090 ]
Sat, 06 July 2013 14:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Location: Edmonton

3 Cups

Hopefully we get the Jones of 11-12 next season, he can be very useful in the bottom 6, definitely the kind of player we need... if he did actually sign with us :)


..talk is cheap
..success is coming
..the game that we present and stage for the fans most nights is one of very, very high entertainment
..limitless potential
..good structural improvement

Eakins: I know EXACTLY what we need to do next year...

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 Re: New deal for Jones [message #603092 is a reply to message #603090 ]
Sat, 06 July 2013 14:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm  is currently offline nullterm
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Location: Port Moody, BC

6 Cups

I know I just said I was neutral in another tread, but this makes me happy all the same!


Illegitimi non carborundum.

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 Re: New deal for Jones [message #603094 is a reply to message #603090 ]
Sat, 06 July 2013 14:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
Messages: 2836
Registered: October 2005
Location: Edmonton

2 Cups

One-year deal now confirmed by the Oilers.

Good to have him back. I have absolutely nothing against having Ryan Jones and Mike Brown split time on that 4RW spot.

Guy can play up/down lineup if there are injuries, kill penalties, and chip in some depth scoring. I like it.



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 Re: New deal for Jones [message #603095 is a reply to message #603090 ]
Sat, 06 July 2013 15:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
Messages: 2836
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Location: Edmonton

2 Cups

Him and his wife sure do love being Oilers.

Quote:

RT ‏@Jamie_M_Jones Team Jonesy is bbbaaacccckkkkk!!!! Can't wait to cheer on the orange and blue for another season!! #OilCountry


Attached with the following pic:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BOhMfkdCcAAQkBM.jpg

Quote:

RT ‏@jonesry28 Excited to get to wear the Oil drop for another year. Hoping to prove the doubters wrong and help this team return to the "glory days!"


Quote:

RT ‏@jonesry28 Must apologize to @JJOilers for pulling the trigger early. Safe to say I was pretty excited!

[Updated on: Sat, 06 July 2013 15:07]


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 Re: New deal for Jones [message #603133 is a reply to message #603095 ]
Sat, 06 July 2013 21:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Boniman  is currently offline Boniman
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mightyreasoner wrote on Sat, 06 July 2013 15:00

Him and his wife sure do love being Oilers.

Quote:

RT ‏@Jamie_M_Jones Team Jonesy is bbbaaacccckkkkk!!!! Can't wait to cheer on the orange and blue for another season!! #OilCountry


Attached with the following pic:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BOhMfkdCcAAQkBM.jpg

Quote:

RT ‏@jonesry28 Excited to get to wear the Oil drop for another year. Hoping to prove the doubters wrong and help this team return to the "glory days!"


Quote:

RT ‏@jonesry28 Must apologize to @JJOilers for pulling the trigger early. Safe to say I was pretty excited!



You know the guy does appreciate being here and gives his all. Hope he has a good year.




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 Re: New deal for Jones [message #603152 is a reply to message #603133 ]
Sun, 07 July 2013 08:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ChasinStanley  is currently offline ChasinStanley
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2 Cups

Has anyone heard the $ on this?


Taylor Hall, June 25 2010

With the five Cups they won it would mean a lot to me to join their organization, hopefully bring another one up there. That is the ultimate goal for me and the franchise

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 Re: New deal for Jones [message #603097 is a reply to message #603090 ]
Sat, 06 July 2013 15:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gunn  is currently offline Gunn
Messages: 226
Registered: July 2008
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

I'm happy with this.

I've always liked Ryan Jones. He always seems to have a positive attitude and solid work ethic.

I feel that last year he was at a huge disadvantage because of his eye injury, which set him back a bit.

Hopefully an injury free summer will bring him back to the RJ Hustle we've come to know and love.



If you have a problem with Taylor Hall and his style of play, you have a problem with yourself.

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 BringRe: New deal for Jones [message #603100 is a reply to message #603090 ]
Sat, 06 July 2013 15:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kungpaobenji27  is currently offline kungpaobenji27
Messages: 900
Registered: August 2003
Location: Irving, Texas

No Cups

Brings grit, speed, penalty killing, size, and some timely goals/plays in the bottom 6. Made me angry when management pondered getting rid of him while being overly enthusiastic in fitting a slow old Smyth into the lineup.


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 Re: New deal for Jones [message #603115 is a reply to message #603090 ]
Sat, 06 July 2013 19:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ChasinStanley  is currently offline ChasinStanley
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2 Cups

Let's hope he can walk the walk, if so it's a good signing, if not he'll be eating lots of popcorn
Quote:

The eye injury left me a little bit tentative on the ice and that's not a game that I can play, I need to become a menace when I'm out there, be hard to play against, always be around the net and just be a guy that when the other team leaves the ice they don't enjoy when you're out there. That's one thing I'm going to work hard at this summer is get into physical condition to be able to do that and when next year comes around I'll put it in my mind that that's player I want to be and that's the player I need to be to help this team move forward.



Taylor Hall, June 25 2010

With the five Cups they won it would mean a lot to me to join their organization, hopefully bring another one up there. That is the ultimate goal for me and the franchise

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 Re: New deal for Jones [message #603129 is a reply to message #603115 ]
Sat, 06 July 2013 20:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
MrOiler  is currently offline MrOiler
Messages: 907
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Location: Calgary

No Cups

I like Jonesy, but he needs a big year.

I like a good comeback story - I hope it has a happy ending.




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 Re: New deal for Jones [message #603130 is a reply to message #603129 ]
Sat, 06 July 2013 20:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RankinSpankin  is currently offline RankinSpankin
Messages: 157
Registered: June 2013
Location: Fort McMurray

No Cups

He's done it before when Nashville waived him.

Character

Nuff said



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 Re: New deal for Jones [message #603132 is a reply to message #603090 ]
Sat, 06 July 2013 21:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oilertime  is currently offline Oilertime
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Location: Fort Saskatchewan

No Cups

Wonder if the Oilers got shut out on Lapierre and/or Cooke and had to snatch up Jones before they ran out of bottom sixers on the market.

Never been much of a Jones fan, hopefully he can have a decent year after his game fell off a cliff last year.



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 Re: New deal for Jones [message #603159 is a reply to message #603132 ]
Sun, 07 July 2013 10:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hemmer2Eberle  is currently offline Hemmer2Eberle
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Location: Edmonton, Alberta

1 Cup

Oilertime wrote on Sat, 06 July 2013 21:01

Wonder if the Oilers got shut out on Lapierre and/or Cooke and had to snatch up Jones before they ran out of bottom sixers on the market.

Never been much of a Jones fan, hopefully he can have a decent year after his game fell off a cliff last year.

You have never been a fan of a player who leaves it all out on the ice each shift, and shows heart in each shift he plays?

This guy is everything the Oilers need in the bottom 6 if he can return to form.

Plus, I really enjoy his love for the Oilers.



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 Re: New deal for Jones [message #603155 is a reply to message #603090 ]
Sun, 07 July 2013 09:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dkb19  is currently offline dkb19
Messages: 1115
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Location: Airdrie

1 Cup

I'm glad he's back. Jones brings his best to every game and can contribute in a way we desperately need.


5 Cups and counting.

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 Re: New deal for Jones [message #603171 is a reply to message #603090 ]
Sun, 07 July 2013 12:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hmc  is currently offline hmc
Messages: 4054
Registered: May 2008
Location: Toronto

4 Cups

My thoughts on Jones align with those found at this link: http://www.coppernblue.com/2013/7/7/4501266/edmonton-brings- ryan-jones-back

And I have absolutely no idea how he's managed to trick people into thinking he's gritty and hearty and hardworking.



Then I'll just regress, because I feel I've made myself perfectly redundant.

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 Re: New deal for Jones [message #603185 is a reply to message #603171 ]
Sun, 07 July 2013 16:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
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hmc wrote on Sun, 07 July 2013 11:29

My thoughts on Jones align with those found at this link: http://www.coppernblue.com/2013/7/7/4501266/edmonton-brings- ryan-jones-back

And I have absolutely no idea how he's managed to trick people into thinking he's gritty and hearty and hardworking.


I don't understand the hate for Jones sometimes. I get that he's not a possession darling like Dustin Penner for example (even though he scored one more EV goal than Penner did in 10/11 in roughly 20 extra minutes of EV ice time).

But his QoC numbers are reasonable (0.235 in 10/11 and 0.364 in 11/12), so while he's not exactly lined up against world beaters out there, he's not playing against total schlebs either. Ryan Jones isn't going to tilt the ice every time he's out there, even against middling competition, but if we're talking about why the Oilers have been in the basement lately, I'm not sure Ryan Jones makes my top 10 reasons.

I really like Derek Zona, and I fully concede that he knows a lot more about hockey than I do, but when he writes something like this:

Quote:

He's a defensive liability and a cherry-picker who has turned positioning himself outside of the entire opposing team into an art form.


I expect that when I go and look at the numbers, that anyone who played with Jones should see a big jump in their Corsi when they're not playing with Jones since it's basically a 5v4 when Jones is on the ice in the defensive zone (and it's not like Jones is getting plum O-zone starts either, so this should happen a lot). But the funny thing is that's not really the case.

Of the 3 forwards that played the most with Jones in 11/12 (I'm giving him a bit of a pass for last year given the injury and short season): Horcoff sees a slight bump in CF% when not playing with Jones (46.7 with Jones/47.2 without Jones), but Belanger and Smyth both see a drop in their CF% away from Jones (48.2/44.2 for Belanger, and 47.8/45.9 for Smyth).

All numbers from: http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/showplayer.php?pid=982&w ithagainst=true&season=2011-12&sit=5v5

I'm new to all of this stuff, so if anyone has an explanation of how these (or any other) numbers show that Jones is a terrible hockey player and not deserving to be on the Oilers 4th line, then I'm all ears.



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 Re: New deal for Jones [message #603187 is a reply to message #603185 ]
Sun, 07 July 2013 17:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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I have some reservations on Jones given his injury the last year. I do think he isn't as physical as he seems to get credit for from fans and media alike and if he's not chipping in offensively (and he wasn't last year) then he's not contributing a lot.

Again, I don't like the dollars given out by the Oilers, who don't seem to have figured out that there is a lot more money to go around when you don't pay over-pay everyone at the bottom half of the roster. Most good teams have a defenceman or two at under a million a year, and most fourth liners and extra forwards there too. Jones, who will be a fourth liner unless he's producing a lot more offence, is going to be paid $1.5MM.

Put that next to Ference, a third pairing defenceman making over $3MM and Boyd Gordon, Belanger's replacement making twice what Belanger made, and the Oilers are throwing around money a little too freely. At least this is just a one-year deal.



#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireEakins #FireActon #FireSmith #FireBuchberger #FireMoores #Burnitdown #KeepJoey

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 Re: New deal for Jones [message #603220 is a reply to message #603187 ]
Mon, 08 July 2013 08:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
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Adam wrote on Sun, 07 July 2013 17:17



Put that next to Ference, a third pairing defenceman making over $3MM and Boyd Gordon, Belanger's replacement making twice what Belanger made, and the Oilers are throwing around money a little too freely. At least this is just a one-year deal.


I think the Oilers see Gordon as Horcoff's replacement. I'm a little nervous about that, but time will tell whether they are right. Next year's third line will be Gordon, Paajarvi, and ________ (Personally, I think Mason Raymond would look good on that line).

I don't think they've found Belanger's replacement yet. Either that or they are relying on Lander or Arcobello to fill that role next season, which I don't think is wise either.

As for Jones, it's a one-year deal. Given all that was working against him last year, I like them rolling the dice to see if he can return to pre-lockout Jones. It's a good, safe gamble. Jones, Joensuu, Hamilton, Smyth, and Brown will all be battling for that 4LW, 4RW, and press box positions. They bring different strengths, but personally, I think a Jones/Joensuu fourth line probably has more to offer than Smyth and Brown. I like that Eakins has options and that Jones can play himself into or out of the lineup.

[Updated on: Mon, 08 July 2013 08:55]


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 Re: New deal for Jones [message #603222 is a reply to message #603220 ]
Mon, 08 July 2013 09:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 9876
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mightyreasoner wrote on Mon, 08 July 2013 08:50

Adam wrote on Sun, 07 July 2013 17:17



Put that next to Ference, a third pairing defenceman making over $3MM and Boyd Gordon, Belanger's replacement making twice what Belanger made, and the Oilers are throwing around money a little too freely. At least this is just a one-year deal.


I think the Oilers see Gordon as Horcoff's replacement. I'm a little nervous about that, but time will tell whether they are right. Next year's third line will be Gordon, Paajarvi, and ________ (Personally, I think Mason Raymond would look good on that line).

I don't think they've found Belanger's replacement yet. Either that or they are relying on Lander or Arcobello to fill that role next season, which I don't think is wise either.

As for Jones, it's a one-year deal. Given all that was working against him last year, I like them rolling the dice to see if he can return to pre-lockout Jones. It's a good, safe gamble. Jones, Joensuu, Hamilton, Smyth, and Brown will all be battling for that 4LW, 4RW, and press box positions. They bring different strengths, but personally, I think a Jones/Joensuu fourth line probably has more to offer than Smyth and Brown. I like that Eakins has options and that Jones can play himself into or out of the lineup.


The more I read on Gordon, the more comfortable I'm becoming with that signing. If he can be a solid 3C, he's not overpaid, or at least, not badly. For anyone who's interested in learning a little about the newest shutdown centre, here's the last couple articles I read:

http://oilersnation.com/2013/7/5/you-better-you-bet
http://oilersnation.com/2013/7/6/boyd-gordon-third-line-cent re

I do think they overpaid for a "roll-the-dice" year of Jones and I think Ference is all kinds of overpay. Too much money for too long and with a NMC...given his age, that's a set-up for failure.

I see Ference as a Steve Staios-type of player. Staios looked fantastic when the Oilers got him from Atlanta. He was a battler, he chipped in a little offence, he stuck up for teammates. But by the end of his time here, he'd lost a step, made too much money, and everyone was prettty relieved when he was finally sent off.



#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireEakins #FireActon #FireSmith #FireBuchberger #FireMoores #Burnitdown #KeepJoey

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 Re: New deal for Jones [message #603225 is a reply to message #603222 ]
Mon, 08 July 2013 09:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hemskyfan99  is currently offline hemskyfan99
Messages: 2319
Registered: July 2007

2 Cups

Adam wrote on Mon, 08 July 2013 09:03

mightyreasoner wrote on Mon, 08 July 2013 08:50

Adam wrote on Sun, 07 July 2013 17:17



Put that next to Ference, a third pairing defenceman making over $3MM and Boyd Gordon, Belanger's replacement making twice what Belanger made, and the Oilers are throwing around money a little too freely. At least this is just a one-year deal.


I think the Oilers see Gordon as Horcoff's replacement. I'm a little nervous about that, but time will tell whether they are right. Next year's third line will be Gordon, Paajarvi, and ________ (Personally, I think Mason Raymond would look good on that line).

I don't think they've found Belanger's replacement yet. Either that or they are relying on Lander or Arcobello to fill that role next season, which I don't think is wise either.

As for Jones, it's a one-year deal. Given all that was working against him last year, I like them rolling the dice to see if he can return to pre-lockout Jones. It's a good, safe gamble. Jones, Joensuu, Hamilton, Smyth, and Brown will all be battling for that 4LW, 4RW, and press box positions. They bring different strengths, but personally, I think a Jones/Joensuu fourth line probably has more to offer than Smyth and Brown. I like that Eakins has options and that Jones can play himself into or out of the lineup.


The more I read on Gordon, the more comfortable I'm becoming with that signing. If he can be a solid 3C, he's not overpaid, or at least, not badly. For anyone who's interested in learning a little about the newest shutdown centre, here's the last couple articles I read:

http://oilersnation.com/2013/7/5/you-better-you-bet
http://oilersnation.com/2013/7/6/boyd-gordon-third-line-cent re

I do think they overpaid for a "roll-the-dice" year of Jones.


I figured he would get around $1M-$1.5M looks like they took the higher end of that. If people don't know he is at $1.5M



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 Re: New deal for Jones [message #603230 is a reply to message #603222 ]
Mon, 08 July 2013 09:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ChasinStanley  is currently offline ChasinStanley
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Andrew Ferance is not a bottom pair d-man on any team in this league and definitely not on ours. He just came off a Season where he was the number 4 guy on the 2nd best team in the league, playing behind some pretty good guys. I know we all wanted a true number 1 Pronger type guy but they just are not out there. Ferance knows how to play defence, hits hard and competes everynight, all things this team sorely needs. The last year or two of his deal he may drop down to a bottom pairing guy but hopefully by then he has mentored and developed some of the D prospects we have coming. Right now he is clearly a number 3 guy for us, he'll probabaly have to play about 2-3 more mins a night than he did in Boston but I think he can handle that. This is a good deal dollars wise a good deal for addressing team needs the only thing I question is 4 years vs 3, which may lead to a Staios like final year?


Taylor Hall, June 25 2010

With the five Cups they won it would mean a lot to me to join their organization, hopefully bring another one up there. That is the ultimate goal for me and the franchise

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 Re: New deal for Jones [message #603236 is a reply to message #603230 ]
Mon, 08 July 2013 10:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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ChasinStanley wrote on Mon, 08 July 2013 09:53

Andrew Ferance is not a bottom pair d-man on any team in this league and definitely not on ours. He just came off a Season where he was the number 4 guy on the 2nd best team in the league, playing behind some pretty good guys. I know we all wanted a true number 1 Pronger type guy but they just are not out there. Ferance knows how to play defence, hits hard and competes everynight, all things this team sorely needs. The last year or two of his deal he may drop down to a bottom pairing guy but hopefully by then he has mentored and developed some of the D prospects we have coming. Right now he is clearly a number 3 guy for us, he'll probabaly have to play about 2-3 more mins a night than he did in Boston but I think he can handle that. This is a good deal dollars wise a good deal for addressing team needs the only thing I question is 4 years vs 3, which may lead to a Staios like final year?


I don't think you can expect a 34-year old #4 defenceman to up his minutes and excel at that. Not over a long period of time anyhow. I think if you sign Andrew Ference because you think he was a good #4 defenceman, where you go wrong is if you're trying to project him as a #2 or #3 with the Oilers.

What I do like about Ference is that he's a multi-tool. He's not the most physical, not the most offensive, but he does a little of everything. He does hit, he doesn't take a tonne of minor penalties. He kills penalties, he chips in a little offence. I like that we got a guy like that, but I think even switching teams, you should be counting on him to be no more than the fourth defenceman that he was last year, and as his contract goes on, expect him to slip down the depth chart (despite the fact that the money stays high and he's unmoveable).



#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireEakins #FireActon #FireSmith #FireBuchberger #FireMoores #Burnitdown #KeepJoey

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 Re: New deal for Jones [message #603259 is a reply to message #603236 ]
Mon, 08 July 2013 12:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mars  is currently offline Mars
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No Cups

Adam wrote on Mon, 08 July 2013 10:16

ChasinStanley wrote on Mon, 08 July 2013 09:53

Andrew Ferance is not a bottom pair d-man on any team in this league and definitely not on ours. He just came off a Season where he was the number 4 guy on the 2nd best team in the league, playing behind some pretty good guys. I know we all wanted a true number 1 Pronger type guy but they just are not out there. Ferance knows how to play defence, hits hard and competes everynight, all things this team sorely needs. The last year or two of his deal he may drop down to a bottom pairing guy but hopefully by then he has mentored and developed some of the D prospects we have coming. Right now he is clearly a number 3 guy for us, he'll probabaly have to play about 2-3 more mins a night than he did in Boston but I think he can handle that. This is a good deal dollars wise a good deal for addressing team needs the only thing I question is 4 years vs 3, which may lead to a Staios like final year?


I don't think you can expect a 34-year old #4 defenceman to up his minutes and excel at that. Not over a long period of time anyhow. I think if you sign Andrew Ference because you think he was a good #4 defenceman, where you go wrong is if you're trying to project him as a #2 or #3 with the Oilers.

What I do like about Ference is that he's a multi-tool. He's not the most physical, not the most offensive, but he does a little of everything. He does hit, he doesn't take a tonne of minor penalties. He kills penalties, he chips in a little offence. I like that we got a guy like that, but I think even switching teams, you should be counting on him to be no more than the fourth defenceman that he was last year, and as his contract goes on, expect him to slip down the depth chart (despite the fact that the money stays high and he's unmoveable).


I agree with your assessment of Ference and your comparison to Staios. As soon as I heard the signing I immediately thought of Steve Staios. Everything you have already said, plus great with teammates.

With all due respect to Ference, if he is part of the #1 pairing the Oil are in trouble.



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 Re: New deal for Jones [message #603265 is a reply to message #603236 ]
Mon, 08 July 2013 13:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hemskyfan99  is currently offline hemskyfan99
Messages: 2319
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2 Cups

Adam wrote on Mon, 08 July 2013 10:16

ChasinStanley wrote on Mon, 08 July 2013 09:53

Andrew Ferance is not a bottom pair d-man on any team in this league and definitely not on ours. He just came off a Season where he was the number 4 guy on the 2nd best team in the league, playing behind some pretty good guys. I know we all wanted a true number 1 Pronger type guy but they just are not out there. Ferance knows how to play defence, hits hard and competes everynight, all things this team sorely needs. The last year or two of his deal he may drop down to a bottom pairing guy but hopefully by then he has mentored and developed some of the D prospects we have coming. Right now he is clearly a number 3 guy for us, he'll probabaly have to play about 2-3 more mins a night than he did in Boston but I think he can handle that. This is a good deal dollars wise a good deal for addressing team needs the only thing I question is 4 years vs 3, which may lead to a Staios like final year?


I don't think you can expect a 34-year old #4 defenceman to up his minutes and excel at that. Not over a long period of time anyhow. I think if you sign Andrew Ference because you think he was a good #4 defenceman, where you go wrong is if you're trying to project him as a #2 or #3 with the Oilers.

What I do like about Ference is that he's a multi-tool. He's not the most physical, not the most offensive, but he does a little of everything. He does hit, he doesn't take a tonne of minor penalties. He kills penalties, he chips in a little offence. I like that we got a guy like that, but I think even switching teams, you should be counting on him to be no more than the fourth defenceman that he was last year, and as his contract goes on, expect him to slip down the depth chart (despite the fact that the money stays high and he's unmoveable).


I think Ference will come in and be between the 1-3 best defensemen we have. In four years from now that might be a different story. But Michal Rozsival stepped up huge for Chicago and logged a lot of minutes when other teams didn't think he could.



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 Re: New deal for Jones [message #603267 is a reply to message #603265 ]
Mon, 08 July 2013 13:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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hemskyfan99 wrote on Mon, 08 July 2013 13:01


I think Ference will come in and be between the 1-3 best defensemen we have. In four years from now that might be a different story. But Michal Rozsival stepped up huge for Chicago and logged a lot of minutes when other teams didn't think he could.


If Andrew Ference is the top defenceman on this club next year, then god help us all.

The good news? We'll be in the running for another #1 pick!



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 Re: New deal for Jones [message #603224 is a reply to message #603220 ]
Mon, 08 July 2013 09:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Magnum  is currently offline Magnum
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mightyreasoner wrote on Mon, 08 July 2013 08:50

Adam wrote on Sun, 07 July 2013 17:17



Put that next to Ference, a third pairing defenceman making over $3MM and Boyd Gordon, Belanger's replacement making twice what Belanger made, and the Oilers are throwing around money a little too freely. At least this is just a one-year deal.


I think the Oilers see Gordon as Horcoff's replacement. I'm a little nervous about that, but time will tell whether they are right. Next year's third line will be Gordon, Paajarvi, and ________ (Personally, I think Mason Raymond would look good on that line).

I don't think they've found Belanger's replacement yet. Either that or they are relying on Lander or Arcobello to fill that role next season, which I don't think is wise either.

As for Jones, it's a one-year deal. Given all that was working against him last year, I like them rolling the dice to see if he can return to pre-lockout Jones. It's a good, safe gamble. Jones, Joensuu, Hamilton, Smyth, and Brown will all be battling for that 4LW, 4RW, and press box positions. They bring different strengths, but personally, I think a Jones/Joensuu fourth line probably has more to offer than Smyth and Brown. I like that Eakins has options and that Jones can play himself into or out of the lineup.


From what I can tell, Gordon is a better defensive centre, while Horcoff, if you can believe, is a better offensive centre, which doesn't say great things, but might offer us the capacity to get a less defensively offensive centre that can switch between third and fourth line duties with Gordon.



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 Re: New deal for Jones [message #603226 is a reply to message #603185 ]
Mon, 08 July 2013 09:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Goose wrote on Sun, 07 July 2013 18:18

hmc wrote on Sun, 07 July 2013 11:29

My thoughts on Jones align with those found at this link: http://www.coppernblue.com/2013/7/7/4501266/edmonton-brings- ryan-jones-back

And I have absolutely no idea how he's managed to trick people into thinking he's gritty and hearty and hardworking.


I don't understand the hate for Jones sometimes. I get that he's not a possession darling like Dustin Penner for example (even though he scored one more EV goal than Penner did in 10/11 in roughly 20 extra minutes of EV ice time).

But his QoC numbers are reasonable (0.235 in 10/11 and 0.364 in 11/12), so while he's not exactly lined up against world beaters out there, he's not playing against total schlebs either. Ryan Jones isn't going to tilt the ice every time he's out there, even against middling competition, but if we're talking about why the Oilers have been in the basement lately, I'm not sure Ryan Jones makes my top 10 reasons.

I really like Derek Zona, and I fully concede that he knows a lot more about hockey than I do, but when he writes something like this:

Quote:

He's a defensive liability and a cherry-picker who has turned positioning himself outside of the entire opposing team into an art form.


I expect that when I go and look at the numbers, that anyone who played with Jones should see a big jump in their Corsi when they're not playing with Jones since it's basically a 5v4 when Jones is on the ice in the defensive zone (and it's not like Jones is getting plum O-zone starts either, so this should happen a lot). But the funny thing is that's not really the case.

Of the 3 forwards that played the most with Jones in 11/12 (I'm giving him a bit of a pass for last year given the injury and short season): Horcoff sees a slight bump in CF% when not playing with Jones (46.7 with Jones/47.2 without Jones), but Belanger and Smyth both see a drop in their CF% away from Jones (48.2/44.2 for Belanger, and 47.8/45.9 for Smyth).

All numbers from: http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/showplayer.php?pid=982&w ithagainst=true&season=2011-12&sit=5v5

I'm new to all of this stuff, so if anyone has an explanation of how these (or any other) numbers show that Jones is a terrible hockey player and not deserving to be on the Oilers 4th line, then I'm all ears.


Those WOWYs pretty clearly show he's terrible. Mostly because the Corsi percentages are awful regardless of who he's on the ice with. But, if you look at the defender's percentages without him there's generally a pretty stark difference, that to me could be illustrative of his tendency to bolt the zone at the first opportunity. The forwards he plays with are generally considered to be reasonably reliable defensively, so the fact that there isn't a huge difference there could just be a result of that.

Anyway, to me Jones is a guy I admittedly judge a lot on an eyeball test. But A LOT of people see him as a lazy defender and cherry picker, so that's enough for me.



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 Re: New deal for Jones [message #603334 is a reply to message #603226 ]
Mon, 08 July 2013 22:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
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hmc wrote on Mon, 08 July 2013 08:14



Those WOWYs pretty clearly show he's terrible. Mostly because the Corsi percentages are awful regardless of who he's on the ice with. But, if you look at the defender's percentages without him there's generally a pretty stark difference, that to me could be illustrative of his tendency to bolt the zone at the first opportunity. The forwards he plays with are generally considered to be reasonably reliable defensively, so the fact that there isn't a huge difference there could just be a result of that.

Anyway, to me Jones is a guy I admittedly judge a lot on an eyeball test. But A LOT of people see him as a lazy defender and cherry picker, so that's enough for me.


Fair enough, I guess we see Jones differently. I don't necessarily agree with your analysis though. With defenders like Petry, their jump in Corsi is probably more likely due to the fact the when they're not playing with Jones, they're playing with guys named Eberle or Hall.

But I'm not trying to argue that Jones is any kind of great defender (his possession numbers bear this out). My point is more that it's not exactly easy to find guys that can score 18 goals in your bottom 6 (and I realize I wasn't very clear on this earlier). If he was also a great defender, then he probably wouldn't be on your 4th line making $1.5MM a season. Hence why I don't understand why some people are so down on him.

So on a 1 year contract, slotted in (at this point) to be on the 4th line, I'm not upset about this deal.




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 Re: New deal for Jones [message #603219 is a reply to message #603090 ]
Mon, 08 July 2013 08:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rocksteady  is currently offline Rocksteady
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I liked Jones pre-lockout, he knows he has to be more physical and harder to play against, but can he anymore?

Time will tell.

I don't know. Count me as neutral for this signing.




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 Re: New deal for Jones [message #603269 is a reply to message #603219 ]
Mon, 08 July 2013 13:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Team Dean  is currently offline Team Dean
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Well, if you look at it this way its not too bad:

He is the Petrell replacement, a 4th line penalty killer. We still have room to grab the banger we need for the 3rd line once we trade Hemmer. Maybe we trade Hemmer for said 3rd line banger.

I don't hate Jones. He hits, he kills penalties, and he scores some goals by driving hard to the net. I notice him out there, and I bet he was cheap.
He's not mean. But maybe we can bring in the mean guy in trade for Hemmer.



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 Re: New deal for Jones [message #603276 is a reply to message #603090 ]
Mon, 08 July 2013 13:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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@dantencer: Jones wouldn't have returned if management change had not taken place. Was told by Krueger that previous management didn't have time for him


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 Re: New deal for Jones [message #603279 is a reply to message #603276 ]
Mon, 08 July 2013 14:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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nullterm wrote on Mon, 08 July 2013 13:59

@dantencer: Jones wouldn't have returned if management change had not taken place. Was told by Krueger that previous management didn't have time for him



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Jones says the team was doomed when he was picked up off waivers and Horcoff was the only positive guy in the locker room. Jones says Horcoff was a great leader and shrugged off adversity better than anyone he's ever seen.



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 Re: New deal for Jones [message #603336 is a reply to message #603276 ]
Mon, 08 July 2013 22:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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nullterm wrote on Mon, 08 July 2013 13:59

@dantencer: Jones wouldn't have returned if management change had not taken place. Was told by Krueger that previous management didn't have time for him


I've mentioned it before, but I HATE when players slam former teammates, coaches or managers. I don't see what good it does to throw stones at someone who's already been fired or otherwise shipped out. Not to mention that the hockey world is a small one and everyone has their friends.

I wish Jones had kept quiet on this one.



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 Re: New deal for Jones [message #603337 is a reply to message #603336 ]
Mon, 08 July 2013 22:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
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Adam wrote on Mon, 08 July 2013 22:45

nullterm wrote on Mon, 08 July 2013 13:59

@dantencer: Jones wouldn't have returned if management change had not taken place. Was told by Krueger that previous management didn't have time for him


I've mentioned it before, but I HATE when players slam former teammates, coaches or managers. I don't see what good it does to throw stones at someone who's already been fired or otherwise shipped out. Not to mention that the hockey world is a small one and everyone has their friends.

I wish Jones had kept quiet on this one.


I interpreted that tweet differently. I was under the impression the old management staff wouldn't have brought Jones back, not the other way around. Is there a link to the article?



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 Re: New deal for Jones [message #603338 is a reply to message #603337 ]
Mon, 08 July 2013 22:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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mightyreasoner wrote on Mon, 08 July 2013 22:46

Adam wrote on Mon, 08 July 2013 22:45

nullterm wrote on Mon, 08 July 2013 13:59

@dantencer: Jones wouldn't have returned if management change had not taken place. Was told by Krueger that previous management didn't have time for him


I've mentioned it before, but I HATE when players slam former teammates, coaches or managers. I don't see what good it does to throw stones at someone who's already been fired or otherwise shipped out. Not to mention that the hockey world is a small one and everyone has their friends.

I wish Jones had kept quiet on this one.


I interpreted that tweet differently. I was under the impression the old management staff wouldn't have brought Jones back, not the other way around. Is there a link to the article?


I heard him on the radio today talking to Tencer. Said that Krueger told him flat out that the former management had had absolutely no time for him anymore and that if Tambo hadn't been let go, the team wouldn't have even looked at bringing him back. I'm not sure why Krueger is saying that about his former boss...uncertain as to what that does for Jones, who at that point is potentially an outgoing UFA.

Jones went on to complain about the lack of communication from Tambo (who I didn't hear him ever mention by name). Said he talked with MacTavish though and got a better sense and that he's talked to Eakins and again felt he was on the same page. He expressed that he liked Krueger and that they were both very honest to each other.



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 Re: New deal for Jones [message #603339 is a reply to message #603338 ]
Mon, 08 July 2013 22:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm  is currently offline nullterm
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Wasn't the zero communication a big big issue while Souray was an Oiler? Which also during Tambo's tenure?


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 Re: New deal for Jones [message #603341 is a reply to message #603339 ]
Tue, 09 July 2013 00:07 Go to previous message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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nullterm wrote on Mon, 08 July 2013 22:58

Wasn't the zero communication a big big issue while Souray was an Oiler? Which also during Tambo's tenure?


Yep. I don't doubt it is true. You saw the man...did he seem like a competent communicator to you?

But I don't think it makes sense to sling stones at guys who've already been fired. As the old saying goes, if you don't have anything nice to say, better to say nothing at all.



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 Re: New deal for Jones [message #603277 is a reply to message #603090 ]
Mon, 08 July 2013 14:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
WhoreableGuy  is currently offline WhoreableGuy
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I like Jones but get irritated when I hear he is the "Glencross replaement". Not even close, love his heart and love for this city though.


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 Re: New deal for Jones [message #603278 is a reply to message #603277 ]
Mon, 08 July 2013 14:16 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
nullterm  is currently offline nullterm
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WhoreableGuy wrote on Mon, 08 July 2013 13:15

I like Jones but get irritated when I hear he is the "Glencross replaement". Not even close, love his heart and love for this city though.


Hah! Who said that? Two different players.



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