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 Re: trade deadline 2017 [message #686773 is a reply to message #686772 ]
Wed, 08 February 2017 11:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OilPeg  is currently offline OilPeg
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 08 February 2017 12:04

OilPeg wrote on Wed, 08 February 2017 10:49

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 08 February 2017 11:43

I guess the question I have is why would Detroit trade their top scoring dman? I know they are bad but they aren't exactly loaded on defense either.

I don't mind the idea of Green as he would address a few needs like a right shooting, PP guy that can play in your top 4. At 6 mill his contract isn't horrible and with only 1 yr left, you aren't stuck with him in case it doesn't go well. I just see them trading for a guy like that though prior to the expansion draft. Then you'd have to protect him.


http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2017/1/8/14164374/detroit-r ed-wings-trade-bait-mike-green

Nothing concrete here, but it seems like the Detroit media has at least thought of the possibility. Article is a month old however, so may not be relevant anymore.

I didn't catch that Green has a NTC too, that could make it more difficult.

As for the XD, protecting 4-4 means the Oilers likely lose Maroon, but if it's a case of having that top-4 RHD PP D-man that they need, I think I'm ok with that trade off.


I see the Oilers making a play for a dman like a Green after the expansion draft. I see losing a guy like Maroon who can play up and down your lines, produce and the fact he is cheap as a big time loss for the Oilers. I also see them trading one of Nuge or Eberle as they have McDavid and Draisaitl to pay and I think those 2 make way too much for what they bring.

I could maybe see a trade of Green for Nuge +. I don't think Nuge has enough value to get Green straight up. They lost Datsyk, Zetterberg is getting long in the tooth so they could probably use some center help.


One year of Green for 4 years of Nuge with the + going on the Nuge side? Salaries are even, but I'm not sure that's equal value. I think Nuge should be worth more in spite of his lackluster season. Hard to say though.



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 Re: trade deadline 2017 [message #686774 is a reply to message #686773 ]
Wed, 08 February 2017 11:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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OilPeg wrote on Wed, 08 February 2017 11:22

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 08 February 2017 12:04

OilPeg wrote on Wed, 08 February 2017 10:49

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 08 February 2017 11:43

I guess the question I have is why would Detroit trade their top scoring dman? I know they are bad but they aren't exactly loaded on defense either.

I don't mind the idea of Green as he would address a few needs like a right shooting, PP guy that can play in your top 4. At 6 mill his contract isn't horrible and with only 1 yr left, you aren't stuck with him in case it doesn't go well. I just see them trading for a guy like that though prior to the expansion draft. Then you'd have to protect him.


http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2017/1/8/14164374/detroit-r ed-wings-trade-bait-mike-green

Nothing concrete here, but it seems like the Detroit media has at least thought of the possibility. Article is a month old however, so may not be relevant anymore.

I didn't catch that Green has a NTC too, that could make it more difficult.

As for the XD, protecting 4-4 means the Oilers likely lose Maroon, but if it's a case of having that top-4 RHD PP D-man that they need, I think I'm ok with that trade off.


I see the Oilers making a play for a dman like a Green after the expansion draft. I see losing a guy like Maroon who can play up and down your lines, produce and the fact he is cheap as a big time loss for the Oilers. I also see them trading one of Nuge or Eberle as they have McDavid and Draisaitl to pay and I think those 2 make way too much for what they bring.

I could maybe see a trade of Green for Nuge +. I don't think Nuge has enough value to get Green straight up. They lost Datsyk, Zetterberg is getting long in the tooth so they could probably use some center help.


One year of Green for 4 years of Nuge with the + going on the Nuge side? Salaries are even, but I'm not sure that's equal value. I think Nuge should be worth more in spite of his lackluster season. Hard to say though.

I'd like to think Nuge is worth more too but is he? Take the fact that he was a #1 overall pick out because it doesn't matter anymore and judge the player on what he is now.

Nuge is a 6'0, 190lbs, soon to be 24 yr old center. He still struggles to win faceoffs, is at times decent defensively but I wouldn't call him great defensively. His career high is 56 pts. Last season in 55 games, he had 34 pts. That works out to be a 51 pt pace. This season in 55 games, he has 24 pts which is a 39 pt pace. I think this season is an especially bad season and ultimately, Nuge is a 50 pt player. But given his career numbers, I don't see a huge jump in points for Nuge much past 50.

So given all of that, he's ideally a second line center because I don't think he is big enough or scored enough to be a #1 center on a good team. Plus people need to understand that in a cap world, what a players contract is has value significant value. Gone are the days where teams like Detroit could spend whatever they wanted and could afford to have a guy making 1 or 2 mill than he should based on his position and what he brings. People freaked out about the Hall trade saying they didn't get enough asset wise. Well the secondary asset the Oilers got is they trimmed almost 2 mill off their cap and got a very good dman back who makes 4.2 mill. That's a cheap contract given what Larsson does and how good he is. As an example. Would anyone trade Petry for Larsson straight up today? Petry is having a good year this year offensively but he is typically real close to Larsson's numbers and Larsson gets zero PP time and Larsson is tougher, meaner and more physical. Petry makes 1.3 mill more than Larsson. I wouldn't trade Larsson for Petry ever.

The reality is, Nuge is probably making 1 mill too much for what he brings. The Wings have Frans Nielssen who's is similar to Nuge in being a 2 way, second line, 50 pt center. Nielsen is better on faceoffs and makes 750K less than Nuge and no way is Nuge a 750k better center.



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 Re: trade deadline 2017 [message #686784 is a reply to message #686774 ]
Wed, 08 February 2017 16:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
McDavid97  is currently offline McDavid97
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I don't see us selling low on Eberle or Nuge. Nuge has been a lot better defensively playing against the top pairings of other teams.

This team needs RW's and if you are replacing Eberle you need at least 2 then.

As for Nuge, then which center is going up harder competition Mcdavid or Drai? Also it's nice have the two of them together with the chemistry. If we had a shut down center that came back okay but I still think we need to find another center as it is because if one of them goes down I don't want Letesu or Drake being the 2nd line center.



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 Re: trade deadline 2017 [message #686787 is a reply to message #686784 ]
Wed, 08 February 2017 17:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
WhoreableGuy  is currently offline WhoreableGuy
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It's funny to see the asking prices for Landeskog and Duchene and then hear the rumors about the return for Nuge and Ebs. The Oilers for once should be playing hardball. Asset management hasn't been great even with Chiarelli but I can't complain seeing the standings.


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 Re: trade deadline 2017 [message #686791 is a reply to message #686787 ]
Wed, 08 February 2017 18:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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WhoreableGuy wrote on Wed, 08 February 2017 17:29

It's funny to see the asking prices for Landeskog and Duchene and then hear the rumors about the return for Nuge and Ebs. The Oilers for once should be playing hardball. Asset management hasn't been great even with Chiarelli but I can't complain seeing the standings.


They're in for a big surprise with Landeskog's value. Guy is trending down badly.

Duchene should get them a top 4D or good D prospect and picks.



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 Re: trade deadline 2017 [message #686792 is a reply to message #686123 ]
Wed, 08 February 2017 19:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Here's long shot, Ryan O'Reilly for Ebs and Nuge.


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 Re: trade deadline 2017 [message #686918 is a reply to message #686792 ]
Sun, 12 February 2017 20:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gator21  is currently offline Gator21
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Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 08 February 2017 19:07

Here's long shot, Ryan O'Reilly for Ebs and Nuge.


Wonder if Eberle and Davidson for Duchene would have any traction?



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 Re: trade deadline 2017 [message #686919 is a reply to message #686918 ]
Sun, 12 February 2017 22:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NZ Oiler Fan  is currently offline NZ Oiler Fan
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Gator21 wrote on Sun, 12 February 2017 20:54

Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 08 February 2017 19:07

Here's long shot, Ryan O'Reilly for Ebs and Nuge.


Wonder if Eberle and Davidson for Duchene would have any traction?


Suspect it'd cost more than that. Likely our first rounder would need to be in play too. Maybe I undervalue Ebs, but I can't see him and Davidson getting it done. I know if I was Sakic there's no way in hell I trade my best player for Eberle and Davidson.



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 Re: trade deadline 2017 [message #686922 is a reply to message #686919 ]
Mon, 13 February 2017 08:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Are you guys doing trades on EA NHL17? I don't think Sakic is a very good GM but Eberle and Davidson for Duchene? I would wonder if Sakic is even able to say no or is he laughing too hard.

I don't want to come off as crapping on Eberle because I am not. My comment is based on how I see other GM's looking at Eberle as a player. When he's on, Eberle is a productive offensive winger. He's got a good hockey mind, creative, very accurate shot, capable of close to 30 goals and 60+ pts. In today's NHL, that's damn good. But he also can be a streaky offensive player who is suspect defensively, small, not hard to play against, at times his compete level isn't there and he makes 6 mill. If he's making 5 mill, you probably don't care as much but at 6 mill, you need him to show up more than he does. On top of that, Eberle is having a lousy year offensively. In Davidson. I like Davidson but he's currently a 5-6 dman who doesn't have a lot of experience, is a defensive dman and projects to be at best a #4.

Duchene typically puts up as many pts and goals as Eberle. He's a better skater than Eberle, he's a little more competitive than Eberle and he's a center. Maybe Nuge and Davidson as a starting point gets Sakic at least willing to talk for a few mins.

[Updated on: Mon, 13 February 2017 09:19]


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 Re: trade deadline 2017 [message #686933 is a reply to message #686922 ]
Mon, 13 February 2017 15:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
McDavid97  is currently offline McDavid97
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So for everyone that is going to let go of Eberle and RNH for next to nothing. Who are you trading them for and replacing them with?


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 Re: trade deadline 2017 [message #686936 is a reply to message #686123 ]
Mon, 13 February 2017 20:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
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mightyreasoner's complete Oilers shopping list of guys I think will be in trade talks between now and July. Also known as guys the Oilers should be scouting.

Note: Some won't be available before the summer / expansion draft and the Oilers would be looking to them as a long-term fix (especially if they choose to move Eberle or Nugent-Hopkins). Others would be better fits as rentals.

*= pending UFA

Goaltenders:
Jaroslav Halak
Keith Kinkaid*
Chad Johnson*
Anders Nilsson*

Mike Condon* (June)
Jonathan Bernier* (June)
Al Montoya (June)


Defensemen:
Cody Franson*
Michael Stone*

Jacob Trouba (June)
Tyler Myers (June)
Tyson Barrie (June)
Sami Vatanen (June)
Josh Manson (June)
Alex Petrovic (June)
Cody Ceci (June)
Karl Alzner (June)
Travis Hamonic (June)
Dmitry Orlov (June)


Centre:
Martin Hanzal*
Brian Boyle*
Matthieu Perrault

Matt Duchene (June)
Alex Killorn (June)
Boone Jenner (June)


Right Wing:
Ales Hemsky*
Jerome Iginla*
Jaromir Jagr*
Radim Vrbata*
Drew Stafford*

Michael Grabner (June)
Jakob Silfverberg (June)
TJ Oshie* (June)
Alex Radulov* (June)


Left Wing:
Antoine Rousell
Patrick Eaves*
Patrick Sharp*
Thomas Vanek*

Jason Zucker (June)
Carl Hagelin (June)


Lots of names to discuss, but all are guys vulnerable to being exposed to Vegas and/or pending UFAs... and all are guys who could potentially bolster and improve the Oilers given the right price point, cost, and position in the lineup.



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 Re: trade deadline 2017 [message #686945 is a reply to message #686936 ]
Tue, 14 February 2017 09:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rrathel716  is currently offline rrathel716
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I like to have a No 2 goaltender with experience I would look at what is the price for Ben Bishop and Brian Boyle 2 UFA.

I like Martin Hanzal but he has a history of being injured pretty often that is why I prefer Brian Boyle as 3C.

We need a RD no matter what and only 2 fits the bill and it will be either Cody Franson or Kevin Shattenkirk. Probably easier to get Franson, UFA at the end of the season, then depending on his performance you resign him or not but eventually we will need to find the PP/QB RD. What it bring us is a more balance core defensemen and you push Russell back on his natural left side.

RW well I would like to get Thomas Vanek, not too old and still producing at a very decent rate.

So I order to accomplish these trades you have: RNH, Davidson, extra picks and or guys in the minors. that would solidify the team for a nice playoff push.



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 Re: trade deadline 2017 [message #686955 is a reply to message #686945 ]
Tue, 14 February 2017 11:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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rrathel716 wrote on Tue, 14 February 2017 09:22

I like to have a No 2 goaltender with experience I would look at what is the price for Ben Bishop and Brian Boyle 2 UFA.

I like Martin Hanzal but he has a history of being injured pretty often that is why I prefer Brian Boyle as 3C.

We need a RD no matter what and only 2 fits the bill and it will be either Cody Franson or Kevin Shattenkirk. Probably easier to get Franson, UFA at the end of the season, then depending on his performance you resign him or not but eventually we will need to find the PP/QB RD. What it bring us is a more balance core defensemen and you push Russell back on his natural left side.

RW well I would like to get Thomas Vanek, not too old and still producing at a very decent rate.

So I order to accomplish these trades you have: RNH, Davidson, extra picks and or guys in the minors. that would solidify the team for a nice playoff push.


I'm fine with most of your targets, but as for what you're willing to pay for them?

No. Simply, no. Not Nugent-Hopkins, and unlikely even Davidson. Not for rentals.

If you're gearing up for the playoffs, Nugent-Hopkins isn't your trade bait. Draft picks, prospects and guys at the fringe of your roster are what you deal when you are loading up to make a run...not key pieces of your team, and even at a lower offensive rate than what he's historically produced, Nugent-Hopkins is still a key piece.

You also don't deal key players for UFAs-to-be. The reason that the bulk of the people you mention are available is because their teams are faced with the possibility of losing the player for nothing in a short time - a very short time for those not in playoff positions. To give up an impact player with years left on their deal...well, no one does that. Not even the top rental players garner that kind of a return, so if the Oilers were to do it? It would be first class idiocy.



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 Re: trade deadline 2017 [message #687071 is a reply to message #686955 ]
Wed, 15 February 2017 16:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
McDavid97  is currently offline McDavid97
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I wonder if the Oilers are going to target Lazar for some secondary scoring.
Dreger now says he's available and might make a trade request this weekend through the agent. He said the asking price is high, some speculating a 1st or 2nd. Some say less. So if we can get him for a 3rd rounder I would be all for it.
He does have a lack of points but he isn't being utilized there and that's why he's probably going to ask for a trade.



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 Re: trade deadline 2017 [message #687087 is a reply to message #687071 ]
Thu, 16 February 2017 00:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
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McDavid97 wrote on Wed, 15 February 2017 16:16

I wonder if the Oilers are going to target Lazar for some secondary scoring.
Dreger now says he's available and might make a trade request this weekend through the agent. He said the asking price is high, some speculating a 1st or 2nd. Some say less. So if we can get him for a 3rd rounder I would be all for it.
He does have a lack of points but he isn't being utilized there and that's why he's probably going to ask for a trade.


I don't doubt that Ottawa in a place where they want to move him, as he'll be vulnerable to the expansion draft (although unless they figure out a way to protect both Methot and Ceci, it seems likely one of those two will be the guy claimed from Ottawa).

What I do question is if he'll actually add any secondary scoring. To this point in his career, there's nothing to suggest that would be the case. 1 point in 29 games this year (his third). Previous point totals of 15 and 20.

In fact, I'm having a hard time thinking who he would be a significant upgrade on for the Oilers. Lander, sure. Pakarinen, likely. Hendricks, probably. I'm thinking that probably Caggiula and Slepyshev are better prospects at this point, and if he weren't an previous Oil King, there wouldn't even be much thought being entertained.

I actually think Lazar seems like an awesome kid, but as far as a guy who can help the Oilers in any way? I just don't see it.



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 Re: trade deadline 2017 [message #687094 is a reply to message #687071 ]
Thu, 16 February 2017 08:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NetBOG  is currently offline NetBOG
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McDavid97 wrote on Wed, 15 February 2017 16:16

I wonder if the Oilers are going to target Lazar for some secondary scoring.
Dreger now says he's available and might make a trade request this weekend through the agent. He said the asking price is high, some speculating a 1st or 2nd. Some say less. So if we can get him for a 3rd rounder I would be all for it.
He does have a lack of points but he isn't being utilized there and that's why he's probably going to ask for a trade.


All your Oil Kings are belong to us



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 Re: trade deadline 2017 [message #687088 is a reply to message #686123 ]
Thu, 16 February 2017 00:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
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The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that the defensive target for the Oilers should be Cody Franson. Right-handed, second-pairing defenseman who can play the PP, and has put up points in the past. In his prime. Expiring contract, meaning you don't have to protect him against Vegas, but he's yours to sign after expansion if you can't land a deal for another guy.

He makes Kris Russell completely expendable, and to be honest, I'd probably try and move Russell back as part of that deal. I wouldn't think that Franson will require a huge king's ransom, certainly not a Shattenkirk-bounty.

Another name that I think is worth considering: Ales Hemsky. I know, I know... he hasn't played all year (which is why he'll come cheap). But Ruff says to expect him back before the end of the year, and if Dallas doesn't look like they'll be in the playoff, they'll likely be shipping him for pennies on the dollar.

There will be an initial period of rust, but the Oilers are likely in a place where they won't be fighting for a playoff spot. If Hemsky could get his game back by the time the playoffs rolled around, he would provide some awful nice secondary scoring on the second or third line, and bump Kassian back to the fourth line (and Pakarinen or Hendricks to the PB). I think the price will be right on Hemmer, and the Oilers are back in a place where they could use him.



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 Re: trade deadline 2017 [message #687092 is a reply to message #687088 ]
Thu, 16 February 2017 08:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jakey  is currently offline Jakey
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mightyreasoner wrote on Thu, 16 February 2017 00:11

The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that the defensive target for the Oilers should be Cody Franson. Right-handed, second-pairing defenseman who can play the PP, and has put up points in the past. In his prime. Expiring contract, meaning you don't have to protect him against Vegas, but he's yours to sign after expansion if you can't land a deal for another guy.

He makes Kris Russell completely expendable, and to be honest, I'd probably try and move Russell back as part of that deal. I wouldn't think that Franson will require a huge king's ransom, certainly not a Shattenkirk-bounty.

Another name that I think is worth considering: Ales Hemsky. I know, I know... he hasn't played all year (which is why he'll come cheap). But Ruff says to expect him back before the end of the year, and if Dallas doesn't look like they'll be in the playoff, they'll likely be shipping him for pennies on the dollar.

There will be an initial period of rust, but the Oilers are likely in a place where they won't be fighting for a playoff spot. If Hemsky could get his game back by the time the playoffs rolled around, he would provide some awful nice secondary scoring on the second or third line, and bump Kassian back to the fourth line (and Pakarinen or Hendricks to the PB). I think the price will be right on Hemmer, and the Oilers are back in a place where they could use him.



Cody Franson is not a top 4 dman. He is a 5-6 dman. He does not play those top 4 minutes in Buffalo, nor would he here if we traded for him. Yes he is a RD and would be a good target for the 3rd pairing & try his shot out on the PP, but not a top 4 at all.

As far as trading Kris Russell for him that is a terrible idea. We are heading to the playoffs most likely. You don't trade away players that play an important role on your team and upset the chemistry...you add pieces so you can build depth and withstand injuries better!!! Russell is our #4 dman right now. Like it or not he is and is playing well most nights. He has made Sekera better and helped make the D-Core a calmer one for sure.

We don't trade away current decent assets at the trade deadline unless it is a blockbuster type deal & those are rare at the deadline now because of the cap restraints.



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 Re: trade deadline 2017 [message #687107 is a reply to message #687092 ]
Thu, 16 February 2017 14:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jds308  is currently offline jds308
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Jakey wrote on Thu, 16 February 2017 07:25

mightyreasoner wrote on Thu, 16 February 2017 00:11

The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that the defensive target for the Oilers should be Cody Franson. Right-handed, second-pairing defenseman who can play the PP, and has put up points in the past. In his prime. Expiring contract, meaning you don't have to protect him against Vegas, but he's yours to sign after expansion if you can't land a deal for another guy.

He makes Kris Russell completely expendable, and to be honest, I'd probably try and move Russell back as part of that deal. I wouldn't think that Franson will require a huge king's ransom, certainly not a Shattenkirk-bounty.

Another name that I think is worth considering: Ales Hemsky. I know, I know... he hasn't played all year (which is why he'll come cheap). But Ruff says to expect him back before the end of the year, and if Dallas doesn't look like they'll be in the playoff, they'll likely be shipping him for pennies on the dollar.

There will be an initial period of rust, but the Oilers are likely in a place where they won't be fighting for a playoff spot. If Hemsky could get his game back by the time the playoffs rolled around, he would provide some awful nice secondary scoring on the second or third line, and bump Kassian back to the fourth line (and Pakarinen or Hendricks to the PB). I think the price will be right on Hemmer, and the Oilers are back in a place where they could use him.



Cody Franson is not a top 4 dman. He is a 5-6 dman. He does not play those top 4 minutes in Buffalo, nor would he here if we traded for him. Yes he is a RD and would be a good target for the 3rd pairing & try his shot out on the PP, but not a top 4 at all.

As far as trading Kris Russell for him that is a terrible idea. We are heading to the playoffs most likely. You don't trade away players that play an important role on your team and upset the chemistry...you add pieces so you can build depth and withstand injuries better!!! Russell is our #4 dman right now. Like it or not he is and is playing well most nights. He has made Sekera better and helped make the D-Core a calmer one for sure.

We don't trade away current decent assets at the trade deadline unless it is a blockbuster type deal & those are rare at the deadline now because of the cap restraints.


I would be interested in Franson and Hemsky as deadline pick-ups, but no roster players or high level prospects would be going back. Would be talking 3rd round pick at best and/or B level prospects. Depth is never a bad thing. I'm not usually for the "feel good" type player moves, but it would be pretty cool if someone from the 06' team was here for the Oilers next playoff game.



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 Re: trade deadline 2017 [message #687108 is a reply to message #687107 ]
Thu, 16 February 2017 14:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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jds308 wrote on Thu, 16 February 2017 14:51

Jakey wrote on Thu, 16 February 2017 07:25

mightyreasoner wrote on Thu, 16 February 2017 00:11

The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that the defensive target for the Oilers should be Cody Franson. Right-handed, second-pairing defenseman who can play the PP, and has put up points in the past. In his prime. Expiring contract, meaning you don't have to protect him against Vegas, but he's yours to sign after expansion if you can't land a deal for another guy.

He makes Kris Russell completely expendable, and to be honest, I'd probably try and move Russell back as part of that deal. I wouldn't think that Franson will require a huge king's ransom, certainly not a Shattenkirk-bounty.

Another name that I think is worth considering: Ales Hemsky. I know, I know... he hasn't played all year (which is why he'll come cheap). But Ruff says to expect him back before the end of the year, and if Dallas doesn't look like they'll be in the playoff, they'll likely be shipping him for pennies on the dollar.

There will be an initial period of rust, but the Oilers are likely in a place where they won't be fighting for a playoff spot. If Hemsky could get his game back by the time the playoffs rolled around, he would provide some awful nice secondary scoring on the second or third line, and bump Kassian back to the fourth line (and Pakarinen or Hendricks to the PB). I think the price will be right on Hemmer, and the Oilers are back in a place where they could use him.



Cody Franson is not a top 4 dman. He is a 5-6 dman. He does not play those top 4 minutes in Buffalo, nor would he here if we traded for him. Yes he is a RD and would be a good target for the 3rd pairing & try his shot out on the PP, but not a top 4 at all.

As far as trading Kris Russell for him that is a terrible idea. We are heading to the playoffs most likely. You don't trade away players that play an important role on your team and upset the chemistry...you add pieces so you can build depth and withstand injuries better!!! Russell is our #4 dman right now. Like it or not he is and is playing well most nights. He has made Sekera better and helped make the D-Core a calmer one for sure.

We don't trade away current decent assets at the trade deadline unless it is a blockbuster type deal & those are rare at the deadline now because of the cap restraints.


I would be interested in Franson and Hemsky as deadline pick-ups, but no roster players or high level prospects would be going back. Would be talking 3rd round pick at best and/or B level prospects. Depth is never a bad thing. I'm not usually for the "feel good" type player moves, but it would be pretty cool if someone from the 06' team was here for the Oilers next playoff game.



I think it's important to remember the roster limit comes off after the trade deadline, so we can have a Kris Russell sitting if we don't have a roster spot for him. Not trading him means that if we're hit by a rash of injuries, it's not Dillon Simpson coming in to that spot.

That said, there may be situations where you need to move a roster player - remember, it was UFA-to-be Marty Reasoner that was moved for Sergei Samsonov in 2006. If someone insists on getting a body back, or there is a requirement to move money out, Russell isn't a player I'm fighting very hard to keep.



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 Re: trade deadline 2017 [message #687110 is a reply to message #687108 ]
Thu, 16 February 2017 15:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Thu, 16 February 2017 13:54

jds308 wrote on Thu, 16 February 2017 14:51

Jakey wrote on Thu, 16 February 2017 07:25

mightyreasoner wrote on Thu, 16 February 2017 00:11

The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that the defensive target for the Oilers should be Cody Franson. Right-handed, second-pairing defenseman who can play the PP, and has put up points in the past. In his prime. Expiring contract, meaning you don't have to protect him against Vegas, but he's yours to sign after expansion if you can't land a deal for another guy.

He makes Kris Russell completely expendable, and to be honest, I'd probably try and move Russell back as part of that deal. I wouldn't think that Franson will require a huge king's ransom, certainly not a Shattenkirk-bounty.

Another name that I think is worth considering: Ales Hemsky. I know, I know... he hasn't played all year (which is why he'll come cheap). But Ruff says to expect him back before the end of the year, and if Dallas doesn't look like they'll be in the playoff, they'll likely be shipping him for pennies on the dollar.

There will be an initial period of rust, but the Oilers are likely in a place where they won't be fighting for a playoff spot. If Hemsky could get his game back by the time the playoffs rolled around, he would provide some awful nice secondary scoring on the second or third line, and bump Kassian back to the fourth line (and Pakarinen or Hendricks to the PB). I think the price will be right on Hemmer, and the Oilers are back in a place where they could use him.



Cody Franson is not a top 4 dman. He is a 5-6 dman. He does not play those top 4 minutes in Buffalo, nor would he here if we traded for him. Yes he is a RD and would be a good target for the 3rd pairing & try his shot out on the PP, but not a top 4 at all.

As far as trading Kris Russell for him that is a terrible idea. We are heading to the playoffs most likely. You don't trade away players that play an important role on your team and upset the chemistry...you add pieces so you can build depth and withstand injuries better!!! Russell is our #4 dman right now. Like it or not he is and is playing well most nights. He has made Sekera better and helped make the D-Core a calmer one for sure.

We don't trade away current decent assets at the trade deadline unless it is a blockbuster type deal & those are rare at the deadline now because of the cap restraints.


I would be interested in Franson and Hemsky as deadline pick-ups, but no roster players or high level prospects would be going back. Would be talking 3rd round pick at best and/or B level prospects. Depth is never a bad thing. I'm not usually for the "feel good" type player moves, but it would be pretty cool if someone from the 06' team was here for the Oilers next playoff game.



I think it's important to remember the roster limit comes off after the trade deadline, so we can have a Kris Russell sitting if we don't have a roster spot for him. Not trading him means that if we're hit by a rash of injuries, it's not Dillon Simpson coming in to that spot.

That said, there may be situations where you need to move a roster player - remember, it was UFA-to-be Marty Reasoner that was moved for Sergei Samsonov in 2006. If someone insists on getting a body back, or there is a requirement to move money out, Russell isn't a player I'm fighting very hard to keep.



But would you move Russell for Franson, knowing you're about to head into the playoffs? I mean I can't think of a reason why Buffalo would want Russell back in that deal, but for the sake of discussion I wouldn't do that trade. Not because I'm a Russell fan boy, it's more because I think Russell is the type of player you will be glad to have in the playoffs. If a roster player needs to move in that kind of a deal I would be looking at Pouliot (I know, unlikely) or Gryba, or a bubble guy like Khaira or Osterle.



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 Re: trade deadline 2017 [message #687114 is a reply to message #687110 ]
Thu, 16 February 2017 17:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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jds308 wrote on Thu, 16 February 2017 15:19

Adam wrote on Thu, 16 February 2017 13:54

jds308 wrote on Thu, 16 February 2017 14:51

Jakey wrote on Thu, 16 February 2017 07:25

mightyreasoner wrote on Thu, 16 February 2017 00:11

The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that the defensive target for the Oilers should be Cody Franson. Right-handed, second-pairing defenseman who can play the PP, and has put up points in the past. In his prime. Expiring contract, meaning you don't have to protect him against Vegas, but he's yours to sign after expansion if you can't land a deal for another guy.

He makes Kris Russell completely expendable, and to be honest, I'd probably try and move Russell back as part of that deal. I wouldn't think that Franson will require a huge king's ransom, certainly not a Shattenkirk-bounty.

Another name that I think is worth considering: Ales Hemsky. I know, I know... he hasn't played all year (which is why he'll come cheap). But Ruff says to expect him back before the end of the year, and if Dallas doesn't look like they'll be in the playoff, they'll likely be shipping him for pennies on the dollar.

There will be an initial period of rust, but the Oilers are likely in a place where they won't be fighting for a playoff spot. If Hemsky could get his game back by the time the playoffs rolled around, he would provide some awful nice secondary scoring on the second or third line, and bump Kassian back to the fourth line (and Pakarinen or Hendricks to the PB). I think the price will be right on Hemmer, and the Oilers are back in a place where they could use him.



Cody Franson is not a top 4 dman. He is a 5-6 dman. He does not play those top 4 minutes in Buffalo, nor would he here if we traded for him. Yes he is a RD and would be a good target for the 3rd pairing & try his shot out on the PP, but not a top 4 at all.

As far as trading Kris Russell for him that is a terrible idea. We are heading to the playoffs most likely. You don't trade away players that play an important role on your team and upset the chemistry...you add pieces so you can build depth and withstand injuries better!!! Russell is our #4 dman right now. Like it or not he is and is playing well most nights. He has made Sekera better and helped make the D-Core a calmer one for sure.

We don't trade away current decent assets at the trade deadline unless it is a blockbuster type deal & those are rare at the deadline now because of the cap restraints.


I would be interested in Franson and Hemsky as deadline pick-ups, but no roster players or high level prospects would be going back. Would be talking 3rd round pick at best and/or B level prospects. Depth is never a bad thing. I'm not usually for the "feel good" type player moves, but it would be pretty cool if someone from the 06' team was here for the Oilers next playoff game.



I think it's important to remember the roster limit comes off after the trade deadline, so we can have a Kris Russell sitting if we don't have a roster spot for him. Not trading him means that if we're hit by a rash of injuries, it's not Dillon Simpson coming in to that spot.

That said, there may be situations where you need to move a roster player - remember, it was UFA-to-be Marty Reasoner that was moved for Sergei Samsonov in 2006. If someone insists on getting a body back, or there is a requirement to move money out, Russell isn't a player I'm fighting very hard to keep.



But would you move Russell for Franson, knowing you're about to head into the playoffs? I mean I can't think of a reason why Buffalo would want Russell back in that deal, but for the sake of discussion I wouldn't do that trade. Not because I'm a Russell fan boy, it's more because I think Russell is the type of player you will be glad to have in the playoffs. If a roster player needs to move in that kind of a deal I would be looking at Pouliot (I know, unlikely) or Gryba, or a bubble guy like Khaira or Osterle.


Yes, I'd move Russell for Franson in a heartbeat. Franson brings a big shot and I believe he's a righty too. He can jump in to our power play and provide something we don't have. Russell - well, I'm not a believer. I think he's a good penalty killer and not much else.



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 Re: trade deadline 2017 [message #687115 is a reply to message #687114 ]
Thu, 16 February 2017 18:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Thu, 16 February 2017 16:23

jds308 wrote on Thu, 16 February 2017 15:19

Adam wrote on Thu, 16 February 2017 13:54

jds308 wrote on Thu, 16 February 2017 14:51

Jakey wrote on Thu, 16 February 2017 07:25

mightyreasoner wrote on Thu, 16 February 2017 00:11

The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that the defensive target for the Oilers should be Cody Franson. Right-handed, second-pairing defenseman who can play the PP, and has put up points in the past. In his prime. Expiring contract, meaning you don't have to protect him against Vegas, but he's yours to sign after expansion if you can't land a deal for another guy.

He makes Kris Russell completely expendable, and to be honest, I'd probably try and move Russell back as part of that deal. I wouldn't think that Franson will require a huge king's ransom, certainly not a Shattenkirk-bounty.

Another name that I think is worth considering: Ales Hemsky. I know, I know... he hasn't played all year (which is why he'll come cheap). But Ruff says to expect him back before the end of the year, and if Dallas doesn't look like they'll be in the playoff, they'll likely be shipping him for pennies on the dollar.

There will be an initial period of rust, but the Oilers are likely in a place where they won't be fighting for a playoff spot. If Hemsky could get his game back by the time the playoffs rolled around, he would provide some awful nice secondary scoring on the second or third line, and bump Kassian back to the fourth line (and Pakarinen or Hendricks to the PB). I think the price will be right on Hemmer, and the Oilers are back in a place where they could use him.



Cody Franson is not a top 4 dman. He is a 5-6 dman. He does not play those top 4 minutes in Buffalo, nor would he here if we traded for him. Yes he is a RD and would be a good target for the 3rd pairing & try his shot out on the PP, but not a top 4 at all.

As far as trading Kris Russell for him that is a terrible idea. We are heading to the playoffs most likely. You don't trade away players that play an important role on your team and upset the chemistry...you add pieces so you can build depth and withstand injuries better!!! Russell is our #4 dman right now. Like it or not he is and is playing well most nights. He has made Sekera better and helped make the D-Core a calmer one for sure.

We don't trade away current decent assets at the trade deadline unless it is a blockbuster type deal & those are rare at the deadline now because of the cap restraints.


I would be interested in Franson and Hemsky as deadline pick-ups, but no roster players or high level prospects would be going back. Would be talking 3rd round pick at best and/or B level prospects. Depth is never a bad thing. I'm not usually for the "feel good" type player moves, but it would be pretty cool if someone from the 06' team was here for the Oilers next playoff game.



I think it's important to remember the roster limit comes off after the trade deadline, so we can have a Kris Russell sitting if we don't have a roster spot for him. Not trading him means that if we're hit by a rash of injuries, it's not Dillon Simpson coming in to that spot.

That said, there may be situations where you need to move a roster player - remember, it was UFA-to-be Marty Reasoner that was moved for Sergei Samsonov in 2006. If someone insists on getting a body back, or there is a requirement to move money out, Russell isn't a player I'm fighting very hard to keep.



But would you move Russell for Franson, knowing you're about to head into the playoffs? I mean I can't think of a reason why Buffalo would want Russell back in that deal, but for the sake of discussion I wouldn't do that trade. Not because I'm a Russell fan boy, it's more because I think Russell is the type of player you will be glad to have in the playoffs. If a roster player needs to move in that kind of a deal I would be looking at Pouliot (I know, unlikely) or Gryba, or a bubble guy like Khaira or Osterle.


Yes, I'd move Russell for Franson in a heartbeat. Franson brings a big shot and I believe he's a righty too. He can jump in to our power play and provide something we don't have. Russell - well, I'm not a believer. I think he's a good penalty killer and not much else.


Fair points about Franson, but I think you would be maybe filling a need while creating another. Russell blocks a metric ton of shots. In the playoffs that's even more valuable, and Russell is arguably one of the best in the biz. Franson, while he definitely has a skill we're short on I don't know if he's at the top of his craft to the same extent Russell is at his. Perhaps I'm putting far to much weight on shot blocking, it's very possible. I just get flashes of 2006 Horcoff blocking a shot with his face saving a sure goal.



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 Re: trade deadline 2017 [message #687146 is a reply to message #687115 ]
Thu, 16 February 2017 21:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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jds308 wrote on Thu, 16 February 2017 18:20


Fair points about Franson, but I think you would be maybe filling a need while creating another. Russell blocks a metric ton of shots. In the playoffs that's even more valuable, and Russell is arguably one of the best in the biz. Franson, while he definitely has a skill we're short on I don't know if he's at the top of his craft to the same extent Russell is at his. Perhaps I'm putting far to much weight on shot blocking, it's very possible. I just get flashes of 2006 Horcoff blocking a shot with his face saving a sure goal.



I see Russell as creating a lot of opportunities for shot blocks. He can't make a pass, so he's constantly surrendering possession, and he surrenders the blue line like no one else. I think shot blocking is courageous and a good skill to have, but I think someone who's always blocking is usually doing it because the other team always has the puck.

Remember Grant Ledyard? That was always CONSTANTLY talked about with him, but in hindsight, maybe he wasn't good at advancing the puck or keeping it out of the hands of opposing shooters? Certainly, for all the talk about his flattened shin pads, this is my enduring memory of him:




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 Re: trade deadline 2017 [message #687171 is a reply to message #687146 ]
Fri, 17 February 2017 11:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Thu, 16 February 2017 20:55

jds308 wrote on Thu, 16 February 2017 18:20


Fair points about Franson, but I think you would be maybe filling a need while creating another. Russell blocks a metric ton of shots. In the playoffs that's even more valuable, and Russell is arguably one of the best in the biz. Franson, while he definitely has a skill we're short on I don't know if he's at the top of his craft to the same extent Russell is at his. Perhaps I'm putting far to much weight on shot blocking, it's very possible. I just get flashes of 2006 Horcoff blocking a shot with his face saving a sure goal.



I see Russell as creating a lot of opportunities for shot blocks. He can't make a pass, so he's constantly surrendering possession, and he surrenders the blue line like no one else. I think shot blocking is courageous and a good skill to have, but I think someone who's always blocking is usually doing it because the other team always has the puck.

Remember Grant Ledyard? That was always CONSTANTLY talked about with him, but in hindsight, maybe he wasn't good at advancing the puck or keeping it out of the hands of opposing shooters? Certainly, for all the talk about his flattened shin pads, this is my enduring memory of him:




Very true about Russell, and he provides no offense. So in evaluating Russell you could frame it in a way where he's not killing you, but not really winning any games when you factor in what he's giving up. More or less an even player. I haven't seen much of Franson recently, and I get that his offensive numbers are going to be down due to the crap team he plays on. I still wonder if the good he brings would out weight the bad? From what I understand his defensive play isn't great. Maybe he helps more than he hurts, or maybe it's a wash somewhat like Russell. If that's the case I think I stay with the devil I know.

[Updated on: Fri, 17 February 2017 13:09]


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 Re: trade deadline 2017 [message #687116 is a reply to message #687114 ]
Thu, 16 February 2017 18:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Thu, 16 February 2017 18:23

jds308 wrote on Thu, 16 February 2017 15:19

Adam wrote on Thu, 16 February 2017 13:54

jds308 wrote on Thu, 16 February 2017 14:51

Jakey wrote on Thu, 16 February 2017 07:25

mightyreasoner wrote on Thu, 16 February 2017 00:11

The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that the defensive target for the Oilers should be Cody Franson. Right-handed, second-pairing defenseman who can play the PP, and has put up points in the past. In his prime. Expiring contract, meaning you don't have to protect him against Vegas, but he's yours to sign after expansion if you can't land a deal for another guy.

He makes Kris Russell completely expendable, and to be honest, I'd probably try and move Russell back as part of that deal. I wouldn't think that Franson will require a huge king's ransom, certainly not a Shattenkirk-bounty.

Another name that I think is worth considering: Ales Hemsky. I know, I know... he hasn't played all year (which is why he'll come cheap). But Ruff says to expect him back before the end of the year, and if Dallas doesn't look like they'll be in the playoff, they'll likely be shipping him for pennies on the dollar.

There will be an initial period of rust, but the Oilers are likely in a place where they won't be fighting for a playoff spot. If Hemsky could get his game back by the time the playoffs rolled around, he would provide some awful nice secondary scoring on the second or third line, and bump Kassian back to the fourth line (and Pakarinen or Hendricks to the PB). I think the price will be right on Hemmer, and the Oilers are back in a place where they could use him.



Cody Franson is not a top 4 dman. He is a 5-6 dman. He does not play those top 4 minutes in Buffalo, nor would he here if we traded for him. Yes he is a RD and would be a good target for the 3rd pairing & try his shot out on the PP, but not a top 4 at all.

As far as trading Kris Russell for him that is a terrible idea. We are heading to the playoffs most likely. You don't trade away players that play an important role on your team and upset the chemistry...you add pieces so you can build depth and withstand injuries better!!! Russell is our #4 dman right now. Like it or not he is and is playing well most nights. He has made Sekera better and helped make the D-Core a calmer one for sure.

We don't trade away current decent assets at the trade deadline unless it is a blockbuster type deal & those are rare at the deadline now because of the cap restraints.


I would be interested in Franson and Hemsky as deadline pick-ups, but no roster players or high level prospects would be going back. Would be talking 3rd round pick at best and/or B level prospects. Depth is never a bad thing. I'm not usually for the "feel good" type player moves, but it would be pretty cool if someone from the 06' team was here for the Oilers next playoff game.



I think it's important to remember the roster limit comes off after the trade deadline, so we can have a Kris Russell sitting if we don't have a roster spot for him. Not trading him means that if we're hit by a rash of injuries, it's not Dillon Simpson coming in to that spot.

That said, there may be situations where you need to move a roster player - remember, it was UFA-to-be Marty Reasoner that was moved for Sergei Samsonov in 2006. If someone insists on getting a body back, or there is a requirement to move money out, Russell isn't a player I'm fighting very hard to keep.



But would you move Russell for Franson, knowing you're about to head into the playoffs? I mean I can't think of a reason why Buffalo would want Russell back in that deal, but for the sake of discussion I wouldn't do that trade. Not because I'm a Russell fan boy, it's more because I think Russell is the type of player you will be glad to have in the playoffs. If a roster player needs to move in that kind of a deal I would be looking at Pouliot (I know, unlikely) or Gryba, or a bubble guy like Khaira or Osterle.


Yes, I'd move Russell for Franson in a heartbeat. Franson brings a big shot and I believe he's a righty too. He can jump in to our power play and provide something we don't have. Russell - well, I'm not a believer. I think he's a good penalty killer and not much else.


I am curious what you see in Franson that would have you make this trade "in a heartbeat"?
You mention his heavy shot. I dont remember hearing or seeing him have much more than your regular D man shot in the time I saw him play quite a bit for TO.
He is right handed so does have that going for him.
I also remember him being a nightmare in his own end. The opposite of puck moving.
His 16 points this year would put him behind Kelfbom and Sekera, 2 points ahead of Larsson, who's biggest knock was lack of offence. This puts him around 75th ish for defenceman.
I think he has 2 power play points this year one goal, one assist

I dont know anything about his advanced metrics and didnt look them up as that is not a strong suit of Russell's either but I just dont see what Franson brings that we dont already have.



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 Re: trade deadline 2017 [message #687147 is a reply to message #687116 ]
Thu, 16 February 2017 22:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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PlusOne wrote on Thu, 16 February 2017 18:35


I am curious what you see in Franson that would have you make this trade "in a heartbeat"?
You mention his heavy shot. I dont remember hearing or seeing him have much more than your regular D man shot in the time I saw him play quite a bit for TO.
He is right handed so does have that going for him.
I also remember him being a nightmare in his own end. The opposite of puck moving.
His 16 points this year would put him behind Kelfbom and Sekera, 2 points ahead of Larsson, who's biggest knock was lack of offence. This puts him around 75th ish for defenceman.
I think he has 2 power play points this year one goal, one assist

I dont know anything about his advanced metrics and didnt look them up as that is not a strong suit of Russell's either but I just dont see what Franson brings that we dont already have.



Important to remember where he's playing. There's only one first unit powerplay option available on a team, and Franson plays on a team with Ristolainen - another right shooting defenceman who currently has 34 points this season. He's not a first unit guy on Buffalo.

Here's an article on his shot:

http://news.nationalpost.com/sports/nhl/explaining-leafs-def enceman-cody-fransons-superb-shot

Not a Weber bomb, but he gets it off quick and he's accurate. And as a right shot guy, he'd have a lot of opportunity here.

I'd rather have Ristolainen, but he's not getting traded. I'd prefer Shattenkirk too, but that might cost a lot more.

I think Nurse returning to the lineup can replace everything Russell brings and more, but Franson would offer something different to the team that it doesn't already have.



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 Re: trade deadline 2017 [message #687181 is a reply to message #687147 ]
Fri, 17 February 2017 17:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Thu, 16 February 2017 23:00

PlusOne wrote on Thu, 16 February 2017 18:35


I am curious what you see in Franson that would have you make this trade "in a heartbeat"?
You mention his heavy shot. I dont remember hearing or seeing him have much more than your regular D man shot in the time I saw him play quite a bit for TO.
He is right handed so does have that going for him.
I also remember him being a nightmare in his own end. The opposite of puck moving.
His 16 points this year would put him behind Kelfbom and Sekera, 2 points ahead of Larsson, who's biggest knock was lack of offence. This puts him around 75th ish for defenceman.
I think he has 2 power play points this year one goal, one assist

I dont know anything about his advanced metrics and didnt look them up as that is not a strong suit of Russell's either but I just dont see what Franson brings that we dont already have.



Important to remember where he's playing. There's only one first unit powerplay option available on a team, and Franson plays on a team with Ristolainen - another right shooting defenceman who currently has 34 points this season. He's not a first unit guy on Buffalo.

Here's an article on his shot:

http://news.nationalpost.com/sports/nhl/explaining-leafs-def enceman-cody-fransons-superb-shot

Not a Weber bomb, but he gets it off quick and he's accurate. And as a right shot guy, he'd have a lot of opportunity here.

I'd rather have Ristolainen, but he's not getting traded. I'd prefer Shattenkirk too, but that might cost a lot more.

I think Nurse returning to the lineup can replace everything Russell brings and more, but Franson would offer something different to the team that it doesn't already have.


Good article about his shot. Thanks for that. I think I have mentioned in the past that my son is a Leafs fan so I watched him play a decent amount back then and cant say I ever noticed his shot as real good or real bad.

In another thread I said I guess it comes down to opinion and I cant say I know for a fact mine is right but I dont see a Russell for Franson trade as solving any problems. Adding to Russell would be needed and I dont think I would be willing to add a pick to hip that Franson would be good.

As far as the PP side of things you right, he isnt the first option there but he averages 18:50 in ice time with 1:35 of that being the average PP time. 2 points in roughly 75 mins of PP time this year is atrocious.
When he was in TO he was an average at best PP option as well and one of things talked about then was how they needed a RH PP option on the point as Franson wasnt getting it done. It is a bet that is impossible to measure but I would guess that if Franson was an Oiler at any point he would a favorite whipping boy here, in the media and anywhere else talking about the team very very quickly.



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 Re: trade deadline 2017 [message #687254 is a reply to message #687110 ]
Mon, 20 February 2017 09:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rrathel716  is currently offline rrathel716
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Location: edmonton

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The idea is to explore and see if we can balance LD and RD before the playoffs. My 3rd pairing would be Darnell Nurse and Matt Benning. Gryba is no 7. Russell and is LD not RD and Sekera is a LD too. Look Russell has 5pts this year, yes he blocks shots but he is not overly big this is were Franson comes in, he is a RD with decent skating, has a nice shot from the point so could have some PP time to see, he is physical and make 3.3M and is UFA. The balance between LD and RD is very important, it is way easier for a natural RD to play RD that a LD to play RD.

If dealing Davidson and Russell bring you a more balance club than keeping them so be it and do it, this year is an anomaly cause of the expansion. If I am the Oilers I would prefer to expose Pouliot, Fayne, and short change to Las Vegas so they could get rid of us of Pouliot and 4M that will replace by Caggiula. That's the big picture save 10M with RNH and Pouliot and keep some of that money for McJesus then if Puljujarvi is ready next year then Eberle is gone for whatever we need of a package of prospect and picks. A PP/QB would be nice but what would be the price? Can we afford it?



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 Re: trade deadline 2017 [message #687117 is a reply to message #686123 ]
Thu, 16 February 2017 18:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
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Perhaps I should clarify my position on how I think the Oilers should approach the trade deadline this year. I think they need to position themselves to give the best chance in the playoffs, without sacrificing a lot of the future... this is after all, the beginning of a new era (figures crossed).

So to me, that means a few things:

1) There are areas of weakness: 2/3 RW, offensive RH defenseman, potentially 3C, backup goalie. The Oilers should be actively looking to improve those areas for the stretch.

2) You don't want to give up important pieces for the future to acquire those players. 1st overall picks end the discussion. I'd argue that Brandon Davidson also falls into this category, and shouldn't be moved without a very good reason. The window is just opening, so don't move pieces you will need in future years. You move mid-draft picks, and prospects you are unsure you'll sign at the end of their deal (Musil, Laleggia, Yakimov, Platzer, Chase, perhaps Rinehart in the right deal).

3) You don't want to take on term. Until June, you want expiring contracts and rentals.

4) You aren't necessarily looking for the homerun. I think Shattenkirk would probably be foolish, as he is going to cost a fortune. There's rumours the Coyotes want a first for Hanzal.. again, that doesn't make sense. You want to find the best bargain you can. A guy like Hemsky very likely will fit this criteria: cheap to acquire, makes the Oilers immediately better, not the flashiest name on the market.

5) Finally, you don't really want to take on cap. Even though the roster number is no longer an issue, the cap for next year is a real issue. The Oilers are going to exceed the cap once bonuses kick in, and that will be added to next year. I don't think that should prevent the Oilers from looking to acquire a guy - you're in the playoffs, and anything can happen... go for it! - but it MAY mean that they insist on sending out a guy in return to offset the salary. This makes sense IF the guy coming back is a better player or fill a more pressing need. The Oilers would be sending a 'real' asset back along with an expiring contract, and the team they are trading with would be trading for the 'real' asset. Of course, these trades only makes sense for players on expiring contracts who are expendable for better players... in other words, Hendricks, Russell, Gustavsson, and Gryba. Not players with term, like Pouliot or Fayne.

Example: Hemsky for Hendricks + Musil + 6th. Edmonton takes on less salary, trade becomes Hemsky for Musil + 6th.

Example: Franson for Russell + 3rd. Salaries wash out, trade basically becomes Franson for a third. Oilers get a RHD on an expiring contract and don't add to the cap penalty next year.

In the above examples, even though you are moving out a roster player, I think Hemsky + Franson improve the club more than Hendricks + Russell (though I know there will be some who believe in Russell over Franson. Fair enough). I'm not sure the Oilers are in a position cap-wise to be taking on 'depth' and NOT move an expiring contract out in these deals. It would just be making life harder for next year.

With Nurse coming back, I actually think the Oilers are deep at defense than any other position: Larsson, Klefbom, Sekera, Russell, Nurse, Benning, Davidson, Oesterle, Gryba. The big thing here is that only three of the nine are right shots, and none particularly look like the second unit PP defenseman.

Anyways, that's my thought process.



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 Re: trade deadline 2017 [message #687119 is a reply to message #687117 ]
Thu, 16 February 2017 19:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne  is currently offline PlusOne
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mightyreasoner wrote on Thu, 16 February 2017 19:54

.

Example: Franson for Russell + 3rd. Salaries wash out, trade basically becomes Franson for a third. Oilers get a RHD on an expiring contract and don't add to the cap penalty next year.





We clearly see differently on Franson, Russell and who is better but that's cool. I don't think either is great so we can agree to disagree there but what does your proposed trade have to do with the cap penalty next year? Russell is also on an expiring contract so whether we have him in the lineup or a different rental the effect on next years cap is the same I think




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 Re: trade deadline 2017 [message #687150 is a reply to message #687119 ]
Thu, 16 February 2017 23:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
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PlusOne wrote on Thu, 16 February 2017 19:09

mightyreasoner wrote on Thu, 16 February 2017 19:54

.

Example: Franson for Russell + 3rd. Salaries wash out, trade basically becomes Franson for a third. Oilers get a RHD on an expiring contract and don't add to the cap penalty next year.





We clearly see differently on Franson, Russell and who is better but that's cool. I don't think either is great so we can agree to disagree there but what does your proposed trade have to do with the cap penalty next year? Russell is also on an expiring contract so whether we have him in the lineup or a different rental the effect on next years cap is the same I think




Right. I just meant if we traded for Franson and DIDN'T move anyone else, we're adding Franson's contract and pushing us higher in the bonus cushion cap overage (tacked on to next year). If we move someone out with Franson coming in (say, Russell since they're the same cap) , it's the same as if we didn't move anyone at all; we're in the same spot as standing still, flipping one for the other. What I was trying to get at is that is my reason for thinking while the Oilers should try to make moves to improve, they'll likely have to move out some current expiring deals if they do to make sure they don't go way over the cap limit and hamper themselves moving forward next year.

I think we're on the same page, but I probably just worded it poorly.

[Updated on: Thu, 16 February 2017 23:25]


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 Re: trade deadline 2017 [message #687182 is a reply to message #687150 ]
Fri, 17 February 2017 17:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne  is currently offline PlusOne
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mightyreasoner wrote on Fri, 17 February 2017 00:06

PlusOne wrote on Thu, 16 February 2017 19:09

mightyreasoner wrote on Thu, 16 February 2017 19:54

.

Example: Franson for Russell + 3rd. Salaries wash out, trade basically becomes Franson for a third. Oilers get a RHD on an expiring contract and don't add to the cap penalty next year.





We clearly see differently on Franson, Russell and who is better but that's cool. I don't think either is great so we can agree to disagree there but what does your proposed trade have to do with the cap penalty next year? Russell is also on an expiring contract so whether we have him in the lineup or a different rental the effect on next years cap is the same I think




Right. I just meant if we traded for Franson and DIDN'T move anyone else, we're adding Franson's contract and pushing us higher in the bonus cushion cap overage (tacked on to next year). If we move someone out with Franson coming in (say, Russell since they're the same cap) , it's the same as if we didn't move anyone at all; we're in the same spot as standing still, flipping one for the other. What I was trying to get at is that is my reason for thinking while the Oilers should try to make moves to improve, they'll likely have to move out some current expiring deals if they do to make sure they don't go way over the cap limit and hamper themselves moving forward next year.

I think we're on the same page, but I probably just worded it poorly.


Ahh gotcha, it's about saving some space this year so we have less carry over. That makes total sense now.




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 Re: trade deadline 2017 [message #687238 is a reply to message #687182 ]
Sun, 19 February 2017 11:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
the flying stortini  is currently offline the flying stortini
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It doesn't help on D, but was a good conversation with some fellow oilfans the other day:

Eberle for Halak (NYI eats salary), then trade for two of Boyle / Iggy / Sharp, and see what we have.

Ebs salary = German Gretzky's extension.
Talbot / Halak tandem for another season while Brossoit continues to develop
Two veterans to pepper into the lineup and get ready for a run.

Again, just conversation but it does make sense. I'm a big Ebs fan and know the deal isn't great player for player, but look at the Larsson deal, sometimes you also trade for cap space & need.



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rukm01 wrote on Sun, 01 July 2012 21:54

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 Re: trade deadline 2017 [message #687239 is a reply to message #687238 ]
Sun, 19 February 2017 12:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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the flying stortini wrote on Sun, 19 February 2017 11:33

It doesn't help on D, but was a good conversation with some fellow oilfans the other day:

Eberle for Halak (NYI eats salary), then trade for two of Boyle / Iggy / Sharp, and see what we have.

Ebs salary = German Gretzky's extension.
Talbot / Halak tandem for another season while Brossoit continues to develop
Two veterans to pepper into the lineup and get ready for a run.

Again, just conversation but it does make sense. I'm a big Ebs fan and know the deal isn't great player for player, but look at the Larsson deal, sometimes you also trade for cap space & need.


Think Nuge goes first if we're looking for cap space. Ebs at least has the potential to light the lamp when he's on his game. I think he will have a big bounce back season next year and we're missing out if we trade him. Nuge...keep getting the feeling we've seen the height of his abilities. He might be able to change to the wing to get more offensive pop out of him, but he's not gonna be a better winger than Eberle.

I would like to go 1 more year with Ebs and Nuge to really see what we have with them. Hope McLellan starts trying Nuge at wing so we do get the chance to see if he has any hope left to have a top end offensive game. Getting rid of Poo would open enough space to extend Drai, then we get into the tough situation opening space for McDavid after next season. Fortunately Fayne and the 1M for the Korpse buyout are off the books then.

[Updated on: Sun, 19 February 2017 12:27]


"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

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 Re: trade deadline 2017 [message #687240 is a reply to message #687239 ]
Sun, 19 February 2017 12:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
welcometotheOC  is currently offline welcometotheOC
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The $3.5 mill or so we have as cap hit for Ference disappears after this season, so that will cover Draisaitl's cap hit. We only have to make space for McDavid's... Pouliot and Fayne either traded, bought out or expansion drafted takes care of most of that. We just need to cover Nurse's resigning (next year or year after?). So we're not in bad shape at all, I think.


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 Re: trade deadline 2017 [message #687243 is a reply to message #687240 ]
Sun, 19 February 2017 13:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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welcometotheOC wrote on Sun, 19 February 2017 12:43

The $3.5 mill or so we have as cap hit for Ference disappears after this season, so that will cover Draisaitl's cap hit. We only have to make space for McDavid's... Pouliot and Fayne either traded, bought out or expansion drafted takes care of most of that. We just need to cover Nurse's resigning (next year or year after?). So we're not in bad shape at all, I think.

I'm 97% sure Ference's cap hit is covered by being on the long term injured list.



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 Re: trade deadline 2017 [message #687244 is a reply to message #687243 ]
Sun, 19 February 2017 14:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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CrusaderPi wrote on Sun, 19 February 2017 13:16

welcometotheOC wrote on Sun, 19 February 2017 12:43

The $3.5 mill or so we have as cap hit for Ference disappears after this season, so that will cover Draisaitl's cap hit. We only have to make space for McDavid's... Pouliot and Fayne either traded, bought out or expansion drafted takes care of most of that. We just need to cover Nurse's resigning (next year or year after?). So we're not in bad shape at all, I think.

I'm 97% sure Ference's cap hit is covered by being on the long term injured list.


I don't think him being on LTIR actually helps us when we have bonuses to pay. You only actually use LTIR space if you're maxing out your cap and need to go over. But, if you're maxing out, that's a horrible situation to be in if you have bonuses to pay because you need free cap space at the end of the year to avoid overage penalties. We can't mess around being near the cap still next year because McDavid is going to get another ~3M of bonuses for sure, and Pulju might be looking at bonuses too if he can make the jump to the NHL. Gotta stay 4-5M under the cap if we want to avoid overage at the end of next season. Again, that's a situation where LTIR has no benefit. At the end of the year when the bonuses are known, they are added to all cap hits including Ference's to see if we exceeded the limit and have a penalty for the next season.

https://www.capfriendly.com/ltir-faq

Quote:

When a player has an injury of which they are expected to miss 10 games and 24 days, the team can place them on long term injured reserve (LTIR) to receive cap relief.

When a player is placed on LTIR, their cap hit technically remains on the teams cap payroll and it continues to count as it always did. It also does not provide the club with additional cap-space savings that can be banked for future use while the team operates below the salary cap. Instead, LTIR provides relief if the club's averaged club salary, or payroll, begins to exceed the upper limit. The amount of relief that the club receives is calculated on the day the player is placed on LTIR. There are two formulas that are used to determine the LTIR relief, the first formula, the basic formula, can be used during the season and during the off-season. The second formula, the training-camp formula, can be used during the off-season.

[Updated on: Sun, 19 February 2017 14:45]


"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

"In Brad we trust"
- All Oilers fans, Present Day

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 Re: trade deadline 2017 [message #687245 is a reply to message #687244 ]
Sun, 19 February 2017 15:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Interesting. Thanks Kr, I stand corrected and retract my comment.


East of the Rockies and west of the rest.

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 Re: trade deadline 2017 [message #687248 is a reply to message #687239 ]
Sun, 19 February 2017 16:26 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
ChasinStanley  is currently offline ChasinStanley
Messages: 1578
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Location: in the shadow of a large ...

1 Cup

Kr55 wrote on Sun, 19 February 2017 12:22

the flying stortini wrote on Sun, 19 February 2017 11:33

It doesn't help on D, but was a good conversation with some fellow oilfans the other day:

Eberle for Halak (NYI eats salary), then trade for two of Boyle / Iggy / Sharp, and see what we have.

Ebs salary = German Gretzky's extension.
Talbot / Halak tandem for another season while Brossoit continues to develop
Two veterans to pepper into the lineup and get ready for a run.

Again, just conversation but it does make sense. I'm a big Ebs fan and know the deal isn't great player for player, but look at the Larsson deal, sometimes you also trade for cap space & need.


Think Nuge goes first if we're looking for cap space. Ebs at least has the potential to light the lamp when he's on his game. I think he will have a big bounce back season next year and we're missing out if we trade him. Nuge...keep getting the feeling we've seen the height of his abilities. He might be able to change to the wing to get more offensive pop out of him, but he's not gonna be a better winger than Eberle.

I would like to go 1 more year with Ebs and Nuge to really see what we have with them. Hope McLellan starts trying Nuge at wing so we do get the chance to see if he has any hope left to have a top end offensive game. Getting rid of Poo would open enough space to extend Drai, then we get into the tough situation opening space for McDavid after next season. Fortunately Fayne and the 1M for the Korpse buyout are off the books then.

Hanging on to Ebs hoping for more is a fools game, he's 27 in 3 short months and is well on the wrong side of where an offensive player peaks. We should move him if we can get a reasonable return that helps the team in an area of need.



Renaissance 2015

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 Re: trade deadline 2017 [message #687256 is a reply to message #687248 ]
Mon, 20 February 2017 10:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rrathel716  is currently offline rrathel716
Messages: 44
Registered: May 2013
Location: edmonton

No Cups

Not sure Ebs goes first. What is easier to find a 3C or a 1RW.

My bet would go on RNH to go first let's say that you can get Brian Boyle at 2M and get rid of RNH at 6M so you save 4M that you can add for Draisaitl new contract so that should equals what you need salary wise to resign your player without sacrificing the team structure and get a decent 3C cheap for a little while until some of your own picks could replace him. The year after you use Eberle to do the same thing with McDavid but you replace him internally with Puljujarvi on ELS so you save lots of monay to reinvest in your star player. The return on Eberle is prospect and picks.



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