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 Team leadership and a healthy locker room [message #616149]
Tue, 26 November 2013 16:39 Go to next message
JPro  is currently offline JPro
Messages: 568
Registered: January 2006
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

Here is a fantastic article on Chara's leadership and Boston's locker room:

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2013/11/26/respect-and-com munication-are-hallmarks-zdeno-chara-captaincy/xkvKAwtV3bKUl 9eRc2CwuO/story.html

It really makes me feel bad for Ference leaving such an environment and entering the crap storm that is the Oilers.

It also makes me glad that we have a captain who likely knows what he's doing and can command some respect. I've never been a fan of handing over the C to the young guys who can put up points. Leading by example on the ice is important, but there's more to it than that. Too bad that's all we as fans get to see.



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 Re: Team leadership and a healthy locker room [message #616151 is a reply to message #616149 ]
Tue, 26 November 2013 17:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm is currently online nullterm
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I don't think Ference was under any illusions as to the state of the room and he knew it was his job to be a part of the change. Don't know bout behind closed doors. But on ice it looks like he's just figured out he needs to set the example (by knocking out Stempniak's teeth).

In his HNIC interview, he actually said it wasn't as bad as had heard through league connections.



Illegitimi non carborundum.

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 Re: Team leadership and a healthy locker room [message #616163 is a reply to message #616151 ]
Tue, 26 November 2013 21:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ronster  is currently offline ronster
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Any face puncher on our team could of done what Ference has done. If it takes him fighting to set an example, the team has bigger issues. I don't see Chara throttling everybody he sees to set an example. He does it by playing BOTH ends of the ice well.

A prime example is Toews. Probably one of the top 3 forwards in the league, plays a two way game, sets the tone early with a shorty last night.

Im not saying Ference has to be the best PLAYER, but he has to be on his game. I think with all whats going on with the team, his new leadership role and the fact the defence is AHL caliber has taken a toll on his game.

To me the captain has to be surrounded by a supporting cast that has the same commitment as him. That is definitely NOT the case here. Fab 5 are beating to their own drum.




Adam wrote


Maybe it's fitting to have found religion in the room because on most nights this team doesn't have a prayer.

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 Re: Team leadership and a healthy locker room [message #616169 is a reply to message #616163 ]
Tue, 26 November 2013 22:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm is currently online nullterm
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It is different though.

Facepuncher goes out does his thing, guys get excited. Yay. Doesn't change the team mentality though.

The guy the team named to lead the group goes out and stands up for himself, players notice and it sets a different tone.

I'm not saying you name Gazdic captain as a recipe for success. But if you have a leaders who doesn't drop the mitts or get gritty, then you'll have other players who don't push themselves from their comfort zone. Lead by example.



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 Re: Team leadership and a healthy locker room [message #616183 is a reply to message #616169 ]
Wed, 27 November 2013 09:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ronster  is currently offline ronster
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Punching out Stempniak for a hard check isn't the same as punching out Kassian for his stick swinging or Clifford for his knee-on-knee.

If that's where you set the tone, you cant be selective in your battles. Every game is a battle. Every game there is intimidation. Your decision to "not take it anymore" isn't an on or off scenario.

Biggest problem is the inconsistency of the battle level. At most times we fold like a cheap tent. A few rare occasions we do "fight" back.

My issue is the captain has to lead by example. If he learnt so much from guys like Chara, why is he such a defensive non factor at times? its because the team isn't there to support him.

You want to show an example; take out a Sedin after one of your goons takes out a Hall. Fight fire with a flamethrower. Bring a gun to a knife fight.

[Updated on: Wed, 27 November 2013 09:46]


Adam wrote


Maybe it's fitting to have found religion in the room because on most nights this team doesn't have a prayer.

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 Re: Team leadership and a healthy locker room [message #616214 is a reply to message #616169 ]
Wed, 27 November 2013 13:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OilPeg  is currently offline OilPeg
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nullterm wrote on Tue, 26 November 2013 23:32

It is different though.

Facepuncher goes out does his thing, guys get excited. Yay. Doesn't change the team mentality though.

The guy the team named to lead the group goes out and stands up for himself, players notice and it sets a different tone.

I'm not saying you name Gazdic captain as a recipe for success. But if you have a leaders who doesn't drop the mitts or get gritty, then you'll have other players who don't push themselves from their comfort zone. Lead by example.


I know you added the "get gritty" part which qualifies your statement, but of the 29 captains (no captain in Columbus) in the league, ten have had zero fights in the last three regular seasons (including this season so far), another eight have had just one, and another two have had just two. That's 20 of 29 captains who have had two fights or less in the last three seasons. Some of these guys still qualify as gritty, so your point is still valid, but to say they have to fight to be a leader isn't necessarily true. For the record, Andrew Ference has had four fights, which puts him in a tie for fourth most.

Ott - 14
Chara - 6
Getzlaf - 5
Ference / Phaneuf / Ladd - 4
Benn / Doan / Thornton - 3
Landeskog / Weber - 2
Giordano / Toews / Jovanovski / Brown / Callahan / Salvador / Giroux / Backes - 1
Staal / Zetterberg / Koivu / Gionta / Tavares / Spezza / Crosby / St Louis / Sedin / Ovechkin - 0




Skookum Jim wrote on Sat, 02 June 2012 00:29

But he (Belanger)'s as soft as room temp. margarine.

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 Re: Team leadership and a healthy locker room [message #616215 is a reply to message #616214 ]
Wed, 27 November 2013 13:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hmc  is currently offline hmc
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OilPeg wrote on Wed, 27 November 2013 15:10

nullterm wrote on Tue, 26 November 2013 23:32

It is different though.

Facepuncher goes out does his thing, guys get excited. Yay. Doesn't change the team mentality though.

The guy the team named to lead the group goes out and stands up for himself, players notice and it sets a different tone.

I'm not saying you name Gazdic captain as a recipe for success. But if you have a leaders who doesn't drop the mitts or get gritty, then you'll have other players who don't push themselves from their comfort zone. Lead by example.


I know you added the "get gritty" part which qualifies your statement, but of the 29 captains (no captain in Columbus) in the league, ten have had zero fights in the last three regular seasons (including this season so far), another eight have had just one, and another two have had just two. That's 20 of 29 captains who have had two fights or less in the last three seasons. Some of these guys still qualify as gritty, so your point is still valid, but to say they have to fight to be a leader isn't necessarily true. For the record, Andrew Ference has had four fights, which puts him in a tie for fourth most.

Ott - 14
Chara - 6
Getzlaf - 5
Ference / Phaneuf / Ladd - 4
Benn / Doan / Thornton - 3
Landeskog / Weber - 2
Giordano / Toews / Jovanovski / Brown / Callahan / Salvador / Giroux / Backes - 1
Staal / Zetterberg / Koivu / Gionta / Tavares / Spezza / Crosby / St Louis / Sedin / Ovechkin - 0




Most of those captains are really good at hockey as well. Ference not so much. I couldn't really care less about "leading by example on the ice", but he's generally been a disappointment as far as I'm concerned, on the ice. Only 3.5 more years though!



Then I'll just regress, because I feel I've made myself perfectly redundant.

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 Re: Team leadership and a healthy locker room [message #616242 is a reply to message #616215 ]
Wed, 27 November 2013 17:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Location: Edmonton, AB

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hmc wrote on Wed, 27 November 2013 13:24

OilPeg wrote on Wed, 27 November 2013 15:10

nullterm wrote on Tue, 26 November 2013 23:32

It is different though.

Facepuncher goes out does his thing, guys get excited. Yay. Doesn't change the team mentality though.

The guy the team named to lead the group goes out and stands up for himself, players notice and it sets a different tone.

I'm not saying you name Gazdic captain as a recipe for success. But if you have a leaders who doesn't drop the mitts or get gritty, then you'll have other players who don't push themselves from their comfort zone. Lead by example.


I know you added the "get gritty" part which qualifies your statement, but of the 29 captains (no captain in Columbus) in the league, ten have had zero fights in the last three regular seasons (including this season so far), another eight have had just one, and another two have had just two. That's 20 of 29 captains who have had two fights or less in the last three seasons. Some of these guys still qualify as gritty, so your point is still valid, but to say they have to fight to be a leader isn't necessarily true. For the record, Andrew Ference has had four fights, which puts him in a tie for fourth most.

Ott - 14
Chara - 6
Getzlaf - 5
Ference / Phaneuf / Ladd - 4
Benn / Doan / Thornton - 3
Landeskog / Weber - 2
Giordano / Toews / Jovanovski / Brown / Callahan / Salvador / Giroux / Backes - 1
Staal / Zetterberg / Koivu / Gionta / Tavares / Spezza / Crosby / St Louis / Sedin / Ovechkin - 0




Most of those captains are really good at hockey as well. Ference not so much. I couldn't really care less about "leading by example on the ice", but he's generally been a disappointment as far as I'm concerned, on the ice. Only 3.5 more years though!


And while the sportscasters are all high on his fights, is anyone else that excited about them? He fought two guys who didn't really want to fight. Upshall didn't even have his gloves off, so we were pretty lucky not to have the only major in that exchange.

It's not like he's grabbing the toughest hombre on the ice out there. It's looked like he's chosen his spots pretty carefully.



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 Re: Team leadership and a healthy locker room [message #616240 is a reply to message #616214 ]
Wed, 27 November 2013 16:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm is currently online nullterm
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OilPeg wrote on Wed, 27 November 2013 12:10

nullterm wrote on Tue, 26 November 2013 23:32

It is different though.

Facepuncher goes out does his thing, guys get excited. Yay. Doesn't change the team mentality though.

The guy the team named to lead the group goes out and stands up for himself, players notice and it sets a different tone.

I'm not saying you name Gazdic captain as a recipe for success. But if you have a leaders who doesn't drop the mitts or get gritty, then you'll have other players who don't push themselves from their comfort zone. Lead by example.


I know you added the "get gritty" part which qualifies your statement, but of the 29 captains (no captain in Columbus) in the league, ten have had zero fights in the last three regular seasons (including this season so far), another eight have had just one, and another two have had just two. That's 20 of 29 captains who have had two fights or less in the last three seasons. Some of these guys still qualify as gritty, so your point is still valid, but to say they have to fight to be a leader isn't necessarily true. For the record, Andrew Ference has had four fights, which puts him in a tie for fourth most.

Ott - 14
Chara - 6
Getzlaf - 5
Ference / Phaneuf / Ladd - 4
Benn / Doan / Thornton - 3
Landeskog / Weber - 2
Giordano / Toews / Jovanovski / Brown / Callahan / Salvador / Giroux / Backes - 1
Staal / Zetterberg / Koivu / Gionta / Tavares / Spezza / Crosby / St Louis / Sedin / Ovechkin - 0




Nitpick, I stated "leaders" not "captain"

And a guy like Ovechkin doesn't fight, but he does throw big hits, file under gritty (which you acknowledge).

[Updated on: Wed, 27 November 2013 17:03]


Illegitimi non carborundum.

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 Re: Team leadership and a healthy locker room [message #616272 is a reply to message #616240 ]
Thu, 28 November 2013 07:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OilPeg  is currently offline OilPeg
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nullterm wrote on Wed, 27 November 2013 17:59

Nitpick, I stated "leaders" not "captain"

And a guy like Ovechkin doesn't fight, but he does throw big hits, file under gritty (which you acknowledge).


You did say leaders specifically, not captains, you're right. My mind jumped from leaders to the leader I guess.

I don't know about you, but I'd have a hard time following the gritty lead of Henrik Sedin for one...sure he never misses a game, but I'd take Ference over that guy every day when it comes to someone to follow and be inspired by.



Skookum Jim wrote on Sat, 02 June 2012 00:29

But he (Belanger)'s as soft as room temp. margarine.

Twitter: @penuita15

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 Re: Team leadership and a healthy locker room [message #616280 is a reply to message #616272 ]
Thu, 28 November 2013 08:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm is currently online nullterm
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OilPeg wrote on Thu, 28 November 2013 06:45

nullterm wrote on Wed, 27 November 2013 17:59

Nitpick, I stated "leaders" not "captain"

And a guy like Ovechkin doesn't fight, but he does throw big hits, file under gritty (which you acknowledge).


You did say leaders specifically, not captains, you're right. My mind jumped from leaders to the leader I guess.

I don't know about you, but I'd have a hard time following the gritty lead of Henrik Sedin for one...sure he never misses a game, but I'd take Ference over that guy every day when it comes to someone to follow and be inspired by.


I would take Ference too as captain. Sedin may not coast in the playoffs, but neither do they elevate. And that sets the tone for the rest of the team. Playoff Ference is an animal. If I'm on the same bench as him, I'm thinking "man he's really going, I better step up too."

Versus seeing Brad Marchand punch your leader in the face repeatedly and zero reaction, flashback to schoolyard bullying in grade 3.



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 Re: Team leadership and a healthy locker room [message #616291 is a reply to message #616280 ]
Thu, 28 November 2013 10:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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nullterm wrote on Thu, 28 November 2013 08:53

OilPeg wrote on Thu, 28 November 2013 06:45

nullterm wrote on Wed, 27 November 2013 17:59

Nitpick, I stated "leaders" not "captain"

And a guy like Ovechkin doesn't fight, but he does throw big hits, file under gritty (which you acknowledge).


You did say leaders specifically, not captains, you're right. My mind jumped from leaders to the leader I guess.

I don't know about you, but I'd have a hard time following the gritty lead of Henrik Sedin for one...sure he never misses a game, but I'd take Ference over that guy every day when it comes to someone to follow and be inspired by.


I would take Ference too as captain. Sedin may not coast in the playoffs, but neither do they elevate. And that sets the tone for the rest of the team. Playoff Ference is an animal. If I'm on the same bench as him, I'm thinking "man he's really going, I better step up too."

Versus seeing Brad Marchand punch your leader in the face repeatedly and zero reaction, flashback to schoolyard bullying in grade 3.


Even though there's a slight decline from regular season to playoff performance for Sedin (0.85 PPG to 0.75) and a slight elevation for Ference (0.32 over regular season 0.25) and yet...given a choice between the captains, I think I still take Henrik Sedin. Plugger captains don't often end up lifting the Cup. Closest I can think of is Andreychuk for Tampa, and at least he was a pretty good player for a long, long time...he was just at the end of his career.

As for the punches in the face, as much as I loved that because it was the Canucks, it was ridiculous that that wasn't a powerplay for Vancouver. As the best player on the team, you can't take a stupid retaliation penalty at a critical time in a game because a pest on the other team is trying to provoke you in to doing something dumb. It was no-win for Sedin with the refs turning a blind eye, because Marchand wants to take him off coincidentally. That whole incident is remembered completely differently if Marchand takes a roughing minor, the Canucks score and the game tilts because of it.



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 Re: Team leadership and a healthy locker room [message #616311 is a reply to message #616291 ]
Thu, 28 November 2013 13:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm is currently online nullterm
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Powerplay? Who cares, stand up for yourself! Atleast put the guy in a headlock, Sedin is like half a foot taller. Can't let the refs win all your battles for you.



Never gets old.

[Updated on: Thu, 28 November 2013 13:11]


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 Re: Team leadership and a healthy locker room [message #616313 is a reply to message #616169 ]
Thu, 28 November 2013 14:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wyntermute  is currently offline Wyntermute
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nullterm wrote on Tue, 26 November 2013 21:32

It is different though.

Facepuncher goes out does his thing, guys get excited. Yay. Doesn't change the team mentality though.

The guy the team named to lead the group goes out and stands up for himself, players notice and it sets a different tone.

I'm not saying you name Gazdic captain as a recipe for success. But if you have a leaders who doesn't drop the mitts or get gritty, then you'll have other players who don't push themselves from their comfort zone. Lead by example.


Not only that, but it should be the guy being taken advantage of that stands up for himself, regardless of the letter on his jersey (or lack thereof).

Sam Gagner's a good example. He'll go, and people know it. Everyone knows Hall won't fight after what happened with Dorsett. Everyone knows Ebs won't fight, period. Ditto with RNH, but the kid's a rake so I don't blame him.

I'd love to see Hemsky or Yakupov break someone's teeth if they're getting taken advantage of by the other team. There aren't enough Ference's on the team to have one on the ice at all times, and the message needs to be sent immediately, not during a later shift.



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 Re: Team leadership and a healthy locker room [message #616316 is a reply to message #616313 ]
Thu, 28 November 2013 14:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm is currently online nullterm
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Yak has already shown he'll get in scrums, face wash, push, head lock, etc. For a smallish star player that's all you need, push back. Do something as long as you don't get dummied (Sedin) or turtle.


Illegitimi non carborundum.

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 Re: Team leadership and a healthy locker room [message #616174 is a reply to message #616163 ]
Wed, 27 November 2013 06:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hibernia  is currently offline Hibernia
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Chara doesn't need to throttle people on a regular basis. All he has to do is whisper "McCabe" in their ear from time-to-time.


Kool-Aid Addict!

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 Re: Team leadership and a healthy locker room [message #617582 is a reply to message #616149 ]
Wed, 11 December 2013 09:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JPro  is currently offline JPro
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My love-in with the Bruins leadership continues:

http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/?id=508186




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 Re: Team leadership and a healthy locker room [message #618297 is a reply to message #617582 ]
Mon, 16 December 2013 15:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
halfafrog  is currently offline halfafrog
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The Sedins remind me of the Architectural group Sven, from How I Met Your Mother....

http://lifewithoutbuildings.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/081115_himym-1.jpg



Lowe

Lower

Lowest

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 Re: Team leadership and a healthy locker room [message #618371 is a reply to message #616149 ]
Tue, 17 December 2013 09:11 Go to previous message
Jay  is currently offline Jay
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JPro wrote on Tue, 26 November 2013 16:39


http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2013/11/26/respect-and-com munication-are-hallmarks-zdeno-chara-captaincy/xkvKAwtV3bKUl 9eRc2CwuO/story.html





Thats a great read. 6 Languages?? Chara appears to be almost as intelligent as he is physically dominant.

He does everything but come out and say that he asked guys like Kessel and Seguin to cut out the partying and drinking and make sacrifices for the hockey team. Act like a responsible adult and we will treat you like one. Novel concept. They werent willing or able to do that and so they werent a fit with his style of dressing room. Gone. That kind of leadership wins games.

What a contrast to the Oilers room, where the young guys run the show, do whatever they want, and get coddled by the management, staff and fans. Oh and lose all the time.



"Initiative comes to thems that wait"

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