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Re: Nurse Extended 8 Years 9.25 million per [message #790962 is a reply to message #790959 ]	Fri, 06 August 2021 20:42

jerekybeef
Messages: 48
Registered: July 2006
Location: Kamloops

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Ragnarok73 wrote on Fri, 06 August 2021 16:43

I like that Nurse is staying, but I agree with the "Oof, that's a lot of money." sentiment. If that's what it takes, then that's what it takes, but I am hoping that it doesn't come back to bite the team in the ass after next year....

It’s all well and good until the player makes his inevitable terrible giveaways and bonehead plays and the fan base looks at his (fair market) value and hops on the boo train. Not only were sports contracts offensive in the past, the average Joe Fan has even more reason to yell and scream at the tv or in person now that the general economy,in Alberta and much of the rest of the country, is in the crapper. They see these guys getting huge money, making mistakes while they are counting coins in the couch cushions to pay the bills. I’m not being facetious either. They will be merciless to a player like Darnell if they were merciless to a player like Bear. Good luck to Darnell and I really hope he succeeds because earning that kind of coin, you can’t have off-games and you have to visibly be a huge game breaker every time out of the blocks from a working man perspective. It’s like salt in the wound of the previously employed.

I really hope it works out for the team and player(s) because oh mamma, it could get really really ugly fast, and I’m not just talking about the boo-birds.

"Make the Oilers great again" - Donny Tramp

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Re: Nurse Extended 8 Years 9.25 million per [message #790965 is a reply to message #790926 ]	Sat, 07 August 2021 09:08

K.McC#24
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Registered: March 2004
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nullterm wrote on Fri, 06 August 2021 13:03

Just got notification from NHL app.

Gene Principe @GenePrincipe 7m
From the team...

The Edmonton Oilers have signed defenceman and alternate captain Darnell Nurse to an eight-year contract extension with an average annual value (AAV) of $9.25 million. The contract will begin in the 2022-23 season.

This is probably at least a million higher than I was expecting. Nurse gets his, I guess, after the bridge. In a way I'm a bit disappointed that this deal is on the very high end, probably higher than the expected range was, given that another long term member of the core just took nearly a million in haircut on his deal. I guess Nuge's haircut went to the Nurse overpay.

I'm not upset here, I'm glad he's here long term, this is a product of his play over his bridge deal and recent overpays in the market. Certainly there are D in the league at similar deals that I might not trade Nurse for, if age and remaining term were equal. I just wonder where this puts the player and the team. Darnell's last season is now the baseline, given his compensation. Hope he can live up to it, if he can then the Oilers truly have their best dman since Pronger. Hope the Oilers can figure out their salary structure 2 season from now if the cap doesn't increase.

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Re: Nurse Extended 8 Years 9.25 million per [message #790966 is a reply to message #790965 ]	Sat, 07 August 2021 10:51

Rutuu
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What could we have traded Nurse for pre this signing and what could we trade him for now that he's locked up for 8yrs at $9.25m?

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Re: Nurse Extended 8 Years 9.25 million per [message #790984 is a reply to message #790966 ]	Sun, 08 August 2021 12:15

K.McC#24
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Rutuu wrote on Sat, 07 August 2021 10:51

What could we have traded Nurse for pre this signing and what could we trade him for now that he's locked up for 8yrs at $9.25m?

Clearly the Oilers had no interest in moving Nurse if an agreement couldn't be arrived at, he's part of the answer here, and there's no one in the org to step up and fill the role. In the upcoming year the Oilers could have worked out a trade which they probably lose. Also, Connor McDavid is besties with Darnell, who is coming off a bridge that used up his rfa years and he outperformed. Add in the market going up with recent signings, and in the case of Nurse, the cards were stacked against the organization. I'm somewhat disappointed that Nurse and his agent imo pretty much got his max value instead of something that looked more like Leon's AAV, but disappointment like that is just not worth it.

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Re: Nurse Extended 8 Years 9.25 million per [message #802865 is a reply to message #790926 ]	Thu, 24 March 2022 10:15

Oscargasm
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Can’t believe I’m saying this but Staples says something I 100% agree with;

Quote:

In general, a strong NHL defenceman in a Top 4 role will make about one major mistake on a Grade A shot against per 15 minutes of even strength time, essentially one game of playing time. That’s what we saw from Adam Larsson last year, 60 major mistakes in 970 even strength minutes, 0.93 per 15.

Nurse was at 1.47 major mistakes per 15 last season, not great for a d-man in a Top 4 role, but pretty good. He was hanging in there against the strongest attackers in the NHL.

This year, in his first 41 games of the season, Nurse’s OK-to-good play on defence continued, with him making 71 major mistakes on Grade A shots in 774 minutes, 1.38 per per 15.

He was trending up and his attack play had never been better.

In recent games, however, Nurse has slipped on defence. His attacking is the same but in February and March he’s made 67 major mistakes in 476 minutes, 2.11 per 15.

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey /big-fish-in-troubled-waters-edmonton-oilers-star-d-man-in-m ajor-defensive-slump

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Re: Nurse Extended 8 Years 9.25 million per [message #802869 is a reply to message #802865 ]	Thu, 24 March 2022 10:46

Skookum Jim
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Oscargasm wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 09:15

Can’t believe I’m saying this but Staples says something I 100% agree with;

Quote:

In general, a strong NHL defenceman in a Top 4 role will make about one major mistake on a Grade A shot against per 15 minutes of even strength time, essentially one game of playing time. That’s what we saw from Adam Larsson last year, 60 major mistakes in 970 even strength minutes, 0.93 per 15.

Nurse was at 1.47 major mistakes per 15 last season, not great for a d-man in a Top 4 role, but pretty good. He was hanging in there against the strongest attackers in the NHL.

This year, in his first 41 games of the season, Nurse’s OK-to-good play on defence continued, with him making 71 major mistakes on Grade A shots in 774 minutes, 1.38 per per 15.

He was trending up and his attack play had never been better.

In recent games, however, Nurse has slipped on defence. His attacking is the same but in February and March he’s made 67 major mistakes in 476 minutes, 2.11 per 15.

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey /big-fish-in-troubled-waters-edmonton-oilers-star-d-man-in-m ajor-defensive-slump

Yep stats seem to reflect what I've witnessed.

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P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Nurse Extended 8 Years 9.25 million per [message #802882 is a reply to message #802869 ]	Thu, 24 March 2022 12:12

Dragon_Matt
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find a clip of overtime when his helmet came off. If I'm his coach, I'm pissed at ho slowly he made his way to the bench. Directly contributed to the 2 on 1 that ended the game.
nothing to do with skill, just a stupid move to not hustle off the ice.

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Re: Nurse Extended 8 Years 9.25 million per [message #802886 is a reply to message #802882 ]	Thu, 24 March 2022 12:18

Oscargasm
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Dragon_Matt wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 12:12

find a clip of overtime when his helmet came off. If I'm his coach, I'm pissed at ho slowly he made his way to the bench. Directly contributed to the 2 on 1 that ended the game.
nothing to do with skill, just a stupid move to not hustle off the ice.

And that’s one of the issues with him, it’s between the ears. That’s where a vast majority of his inconsistency stems from. He’s a great skater. He can produce points. All those thing RD already mentioned, there’s no disagreement on that. It’s his inability to consistently use his brain for the betterment of the team. He’s comes across as very selfish. McDavid has an off night, he says “I need to be better”. Nurse has an off night and it’s the team needs to be better. He’s the Mike Smith of defencemen, never his fault

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Re: Nurse Extended 8 Years 9.25 million per [message #802897 is a reply to message #802882 ]	Thu, 24 March 2022 13:49

K.McC#24
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Dragon_Matt wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 12:12

find a clip of overtime when his helmet came off. If I'm his coach, I'm pissed at ho slowly he made his way to the bench. Directly contributed to the 2 on 1 that ended the game.
nothing to do with skill, just a stupid move to not hustle off the ice.

If you watch that sequence, when the puck is in Kane's feet in the neutral zone, Keith comes on for Nurse and instead of hedging toward the defensive zone as a Dman with possession in question, he beelines toward the puck and actually cheats toward center, and is a non factor on the short Avs breakin to the zone, and 97 not having a clue in terms of defending it.

You're right, I think guys changing should always haul ass to the bench, especially in that situation, but there are other parts to that breakdown.

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Re: Nurse Extended 8 Years 9.25 million per [message #802898 is a reply to message #802897 ]	Thu, 24 March 2022 14:47

Skookum Jim
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K.McC#24 wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 12:49

.. I think guys changing should always haul ass to the bench...

Always a pet peeve of mine.. should haul it every time

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P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Nurse Extended 8 Years 9.25 million per [message #802899 is a reply to message #802898 ]	Thu, 24 March 2022 14:54

CrusaderPi
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Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 14:47

K.McC#24 wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 12:49

.. I think guys changing should always haul ass to the bench...

Always a pet peeve of mine.. should haul it every time

Pet peeve of my pee wee coach too. Looking back it was an easy lesson to learn, but a hard one to practice. Just like running on and off the field in baseball. Pitchers have it so easy.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Nurse Extended 8 Years 9.25 million per [message #802901 is a reply to message #802899 ]	Thu, 24 March 2022 15:07

RDOilerfan
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Registered: January 2016

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I can see Nurse is turning into the next Horcoff in Edmonton for some people.

Horcoff was a very good Oiler. Gave everything he could, great team guy, good captain, played his ass off, great in the community. He had a great year, signed a nice contract which was probably market value at the time. People couldn't get over it. Didn't matter what he did. He could score a hat trick but the talk would be that 1 mistake he made that game. Didn't stop until he finally left town.

Case in point. What is the talk at the moment for Nurse. OT in the Avs game. Kadri new the rule and ripped Nurse's helmet off his head right in the Oilers zone when the puck was there so Nurse would have to go to the bench immediately which would create a scoring chance for the Avs. That was kind of a dirty move and should have been interference on Kadri but the talk is how Nurse didn't hustle fast enough to the bench to change, which means he doesn't have enough hockey sense. Wouldn't have made a damn bit of difference if Nurse had of hustled a tiny bit faster because the play was on the far side of the ice from the bench so if his replaced had of been on even a second earlier, he still wouldn't have been able to get into the play but who cares, Nurse doesn't have enough hockey sense to change faster after the opposition got away with cheating.

If he had of hustled to the bench and that guy had of gotten on the ice that 1 second faster, still wouldn't have made a difference. BUT. The next argument against Nurse would have been he should have had his chin strap done up tighter to make it harder for Kadri to rip his helmet off. But again, he doesn't have enough hockey sense to do that.

Wow!

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Re: Nurse Extended 8 Years 9.25 million per [message #802902 is a reply to message #802901 ]	Thu, 24 March 2022 15:25

CrusaderPi
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Location: AB Highway 100

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Nurse is already Horcoff. Very good, slightly overpaid, easy to malign, and nice to have on the team. The question is can you win with a person who isn't quite good enough to do the job they're asked to do but can't be replaced.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Nurse Extended 8 Years 9.25 million per [message #802903 is a reply to message #802902 ]	Thu, 24 March 2022 15:51

Oscargasm
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CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 15:25

Nurse is already Horcoff. Very good, slightly overpaid, easy to malign, and nice to have on the team. The question is can you win with a person who isn't quite good enough to do the job they're asked to do but can't be replaced.

Horcoff -> Nurse -> Benson

Whipping boy extraordinaires

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Re: Nurse Extended 8 Years 9.25 million per [message #802905 is a reply to message #802903 ]	Thu, 24 March 2022 16:06

CrusaderPi
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Oscargasm wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 15:51

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 15:25

Nurse is already Horcoff. Very good, slightly overpaid, easy to malign, and nice to have on the team. The question is can you win with a person who isn't quite good enough to do the job they're asked to do but can't be replaced.

Horcoff -> Nurse -> Benson

Whipping boy extraordinaires

The Oilers could put together a all-time list of whipping boys. I'm not sure Nurse makes the squad... yet. The defense would be pretty good and Penner would score 40.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Nurse Extended 8 Years 9.25 million per [message #802904 is a reply to message #802901 ]	Thu, 24 March 2022 15:59

g2k
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 15:07

I can see Nurse is turning into the next Horcoff in Edmonton for some people.

Horcoff was a very good Oiler. Gave everything he could, great team guy, good captain, played his ass off, great in the community. He had a great year, signed a nice contract which was probably market value at the time. People couldn't get over it. Didn't matter what he did. He could score a hat trick but the talk would be that 1 mistake he made that game. Didn't stop until he finally left town.

Case in point. What is the talk at the moment for Nurse. OT in the Avs game. Kadri new the rule and ripped Nurse's helmet off his head right in the Oilers zone when the puck was there so Nurse would have to go to the bench immediately which would create a scoring chance for the Avs. That was kind of a dirty move and should have been interference on Kadri but the talk is how Nurse didn't hustle fast enough to the bench to change, which means he doesn't have enough hockey sense. Wouldn't have made a damn bit of difference if Nurse had of hustled a tiny bit faster because the play was on the far side of the ice from the bench so if his replaced had of been on even a second earlier, he still wouldn't have been able to get into the play but who cares, Nurse doesn't have enough hockey sense to change faster after the opposition got away with cheating.

If he had of hustled to the bench and that guy had of gotten on the ice that 1 second faster, still wouldn't have made a difference. BUT. The next argument against Nurse would have been he should have had his chin strap done up tighter to make it harder for Kadri to rip his helmet off. But again, he doesn't have enough hockey sense to do that.

Wow!

This is this first time in a very long time I've read your "often" long winded, panty tangled posts.

I think it's fair to say Nurse has a very strong skillset, but lacks situational awareness quite often at critical moments.

Is that better?

#firebob #screwitjustselltheteam #ownerisacreep

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Re: Nurse Extended 8 Years 9.25 million per [message #802906 is a reply to message #802904 ]	Thu, 24 March 2022 16:24

inverno76
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Is this Nurse morphing into 2.11 chances per game guy, which has not been the case for the last two seasons, or a rough patch of play that will get worked out?

I’d leaning too the larger sample size. McDavid went under a ppg for a stretch, but was he regressing during his prime years as a hockey god? Aberrations happen and this should be able to coaches and corrected. He will return to his norm, which is a damn fine defender. Not perfect, but no one was calling him a superstar prior.

[Updated on: Thu, 24 March 2022 16:26]

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Re: Nurse Extended 8 Years 9.25 million per [message #802907 is a reply to message #802906 ]	Thu, 24 March 2022 17:03

Oscargasm
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inverno76 wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 16:24

Is this Nurse morphing into 2.11 chances per game guy, which has not been the case for the last two seasons, or a rough patch of play that will get worked out?

I’d leaning too the larger sample size. McDavid went under a ppg for a stretch, but was he regressing during his prime years as a hockey god? Aberrations happen and this should be able to coaches and corrected. He will return to his norm, which is a damn fine defender. Not perfect, but no one was calling him a superstar prior.

But he’s going to be making superstar dman money here shortly. We can go back and forth till the end of time on this. I respect the crap outta you inverno, but I feel this is something we may never agree on haha

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Re: Nurse Extended 8 Years 9.25 million per [message #802908 is a reply to message #802907 ]	Thu, 24 March 2022 17:48

inverno76
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Oscargasm wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 17:03

inverno76 wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 16:24

Is this Nurse morphing into 2.11 chances per game guy, which has not been the case for the last two seasons, or a rough patch of play that will get worked out?

I’d leaning too the larger sample size. McDavid went under a ppg for a stretch, but was he regressing during his prime years as a hockey god? Aberrations happen and this should be able to coaches and corrected. He will return to his norm, which is a damn fine defender. Not perfect, but no one was calling him a superstar prior.

But he’s going to be making superstar dman money here shortly. We can go back and forth till the end of time on this. I respect the crap outta you inverno, but I feel this is something we may never agree on haha

That’s where I disagree. It’s not superstar money. Imagine Makar’s contract if Colorado bought only UFA years. 13M? 14M?

Sasky for life and it’d be boring a crap if everyone agreed all the time.

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Re: Nurse Extended 8 Years 9.25 million per [message #802909 is a reply to message #802908 ]	Thu, 24 March 2022 18:20

smyth260
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inverno76 wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 16:48

Oscargasm wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 17:03

inverno76 wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 16:24

Is this Nurse morphing into 2.11 chances per game guy, which has not been the case for the last two seasons, or a rough patch of play that will get worked out?

I’d leaning too the larger sample size. McDavid went under a ppg for a stretch, but was he regressing during his prime years as a hockey god? Aberrations happen and this should be able to coaches and corrected. He will return to his norm, which is a damn fine defender. Not perfect, but no one was calling him a superstar prior.

But he’s going to be making superstar dman money here shortly. We can go back and forth till the end of time on this. I respect the crap outta you inverno, but I feel this is something we may never agree on haha

That’s where I disagree. It’s not superstar money. Imagine Makar’s contract if Colorado bought only UFA years. 13M? 14M?

Sasky for life and it’d be boring a crap if everyone agreed all the time.

I think its very hard to argue that 9.25M a year is NOT superstar money.

Nurse is slated to be 26th highest cap hit next year. Only 6 defensemen make more than him.

Clean house or bust

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Re: Nurse Extended 8 Years 9.25 million per [message #802910 is a reply to message #802909 ]	Thu, 24 March 2022 18:29

CrusaderPi
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smyth260 wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 18:20

I think its very hard to argue that 9.25M a year is NOT superstar money.

Nurse is slated to be 26th highest cap hit next year. Only 6 defensemen make more than him.

So far.

Here's the question. Forgetting pay, how many D would you rather have over Nurse? The top 20 non-Nurse D in my fantasy league are: Josi, Makar, Letang, Hedman, Ekblan, Trouba, Fox, Weegar, McAvoy, Carlson, Seider, Reilly, Toews, Gudas, Pietrangelo, Hughes, Krug, Faulk, Dobson, Andersson.

I think Nurse is a top 10 D. If he's overpaid, it's not by very much.

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Re: Nurse Extended 8 Years 9.25 million per [message #802914 is a reply to message #802910 ]	Thu, 24 March 2022 19:00

sinfulchimp306
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I think that's a fair assessment, but at the same time 1 to 1.5 mil less is likely closer to today's worth. Never know he could go beast mode in the playoffs and show the worth there, he's the kind of player that usually elevates playoff time. I guess only time will tell

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Re: Nurse Extended 8 Years 9.25 million per [message #802915 is a reply to message #802914 ]	Thu, 24 March 2022 19:04

CrusaderPi
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sinfulchimp306 wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 19:00

I think that's a fair assessment, but at the same time 1 to 1.5 mil less is likely closer to today's worth. Never know he could go beast mode in the playoffs and show the worth there, he's the kind of player that usually elevates playoff time. I guess only time will tell

If that 1 million was the difference between keeping Nurse and losing him, you pay the million. Remember, this is a team that tried to nickel and dime Petry. He showed us, as it turns out. If you think the defense is bad now, imagine if the Oilers replaced Nurse with Cap Space.

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Re: Nurse Extended 8 Years 9.25 million per [message #802917 is a reply to message #802915 ]	Thu, 24 March 2022 19:18

sinfulchimp306
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I don't even want to think about what Ken would do with 9 mil and a hole at 1d

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Re: Nurse Extended 8 Years 9.25 million per [message #802923 is a reply to message #802910 ]	Thu, 24 March 2022 20:05

smyth260
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CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 17:29

smyth260 wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 18:20

I think its very hard to argue that 9.25M a year is NOT superstar money.

Nurse is slated to be 26th highest cap hit next year. Only 6 defensemen make more than him.

So far.

Here's the question. Forgetting pay, how many D would you rather have over Nurse? The top 20 non-Nurse D in my fantasy league are: Josi, Makar, Letang, Hedman, Ekblan, Trouba, Fox, Weegar, McAvoy, Carlson, Seider, Reilly, Toews, Gudas, Pietrangelo, Hughes, Krug, Faulk, Dobson, Andersson.

I think Nurse is a top 10 D. If he's overpaid, it's not by very much.

This is an interesting question, I've had fun putting the time thinking about this one and was surprised how fast the list grew.

Ignoring pay, age, contract length, and just looking at play I would trade Nurse straight up for these players:

No Brainers - 9
Josi
Makar
Fox
Hedman
McAvoy
Pietrangelo
Ekblad
Letang
Hamilton

Convincing Yes - 7
Heiskanen
Petry (trying to ignore a strange disappearance this season)
D. Toews
Ellis
Spurgeon
Theodore
Dahlin

Pretty Likely Yes - 8
Chabot
Carlson
Q. Hughes
Seider
Ekholm
Werenski
Weegar
Slavin

Take it or leave it
H. Lindholm
Rielly
Chychrun
S. Jones
Klingberg
Krug
Doughty

This twitter thread is a pretty good dive into Nurse.
https://twitter.com/jfreshhockey/status/1423708086670397444? lang=en

Nurse seems like he's kind of a one trick pony. All even strength offense. But even then, he's not really elite at it. Since 2018-19, he is only 38th in 5v5 P/60 (min 50GP). His defensive game at 5v5 has never been loved by analytics. He's realistically the 3rd best PP option on the Oilers right now...he cashed in on one nice season, the Oilers did not look at his body of work.

He's a good defenseman, but I have 24 guys that I think are better than him today. He's past the point where he's likely to improve. This could be a very very damaging contract going forward.

Clean house or bust

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Re: Nurse Extended 8 Years 9.25 million per [message #802935 is a reply to message #802923 ]	Thu, 24 March 2022 20:25

Oscargasm
Messages: 5651
Registered: May 2009
Location: YEG

5 Cups

smyth260 wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 20:05

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 17:29

smyth260 wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 18:20

I think its very hard to argue that 9.25M a year is NOT superstar money.

Nurse is slated to be 26th highest cap hit next year. Only 6 defensemen make more than him.

So far.

Here's the question. Forgetting pay, how many D would you rather have over Nurse? The top 20 non-Nurse D in my fantasy league are: Josi, Makar, Letang, Hedman, Ekblan, Trouba, Fox, Weegar, McAvoy, Carlson, Seider, Reilly, Toews, Gudas, Pietrangelo, Hughes, Krug, Faulk, Dobson, Andersson.

I think Nurse is a top 10 D. If he's overpaid, it's not by very much.

This is an interesting question, I've had fun putting the time thinking about this one and was surprised how fast the list grew.

Ignoring pay, age, contract length, and just looking at play I would trade Nurse straight up for these players:

No Brainers - 9
Josi
Makar
Fox
Hedman
McAvoy
Pietrangelo
Ekblad
Letang
Hamilton

Convincing Yes - 7
Heiskanen
Petry (trying to ignore a strange disappearance this season)
D. Toews
Ellis
Spurgeon
Theodore
Dahlin

Pretty Likely Yes - 8
Chabot
Carlson
Q. Hughes
Seider
Ekholm
Werenski
Weegar
Slavin

Take it or leave it
H. Lindholm
Rielly
Chychrun
S. Jones
Klingberg
Krug
Doughty

This twitter thread is a pretty good dive into Nurse.
https://twitter.com/jfreshhockey/status/1423708086670397444? lang=en

Nurse seems like he's kind of a one trick pony. All even strength offense. But even then, he's not really elite at it. Since 2018-19, he is only 38th in 5v5 P/60 (min 50GP). His defensive game at 5v5 has never been loved by analytics. He's realistically the 3rd best PP option on the Oilers right now...he cashed in on one nice season, the Oilers did not look at his body of work.

He's a good defenseman, but I have 24 guys that I think are better than him today. He's past the point where he's likely to improve. This could be a very very damaging contract going forward.

Woah woah woah! You didn’t take into account fantasy points!

Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
OG's #MUSTWIN Scale
Category 1 - Lightly Musty
Category 2 - Moderately Musty
Category 3 - Considerably Musty
Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty

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Re: Nurse Extended 8 Years 9.25 million per [message #802938 is a reply to message #802923 ]	Thu, 24 March 2022 20:48

CrudeRemarks
Messages: 1698
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton

1 Cup

smyth260 wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 20:05

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 17:29

smyth260 wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 18:20

I think its very hard to argue that 9.25M a year is NOT superstar money.

Nurse is slated to be 26th highest cap hit next year. Only 6 defensemen make more than him.

So far.

Here's the question. Forgetting pay, how many D would you rather have over Nurse? The top 20 non-Nurse D in my fantasy league are: Josi, Makar, Letang, Hedman, Ekblan, Trouba, Fox, Weegar, McAvoy, Carlson, Seider, Reilly, Toews, Gudas, Pietrangelo, Hughes, Krug, Faulk, Dobson, Andersson.

I think Nurse is a top 10 D. If he's overpaid, it's not by very much.

This is an interesting question, I've had fun putting the time thinking about this one and was surprised how fast the list grew.

Ignoring pay, age, contract length, and just looking at play I would trade Nurse straight up for these players:

No Brainers - 9
Josi
Makar
Fox
Hedman
McAvoy
Pietrangelo
Ekblad
Letang
Hamilton

Convincing Yes - 7
Heiskanen
Petry (trying to ignore a strange disappearance this season)
D. Toews
Ellis
Spurgeon
Theodore
Dahlin

Pretty Likely Yes - 8
Chabot
Carlson
Q. Hughes
Seider
Ekholm
Werenski
Weegar
Slavin

Take it or leave it
H. Lindholm
Rielly
Chychrun
S. Jones
Klingberg
Krug
Doughty

This twitter thread is a pretty good dive into Nurse.
https://twitter.com/jfreshhockey/status/1423708086670397444? lang=en

Nurse seems like he's kind of a one trick pony. All even strength offense. But even then, he's not really elite at it. Since 2018-19, he is only 38th in 5v5 P/60 (min 50GP). His defensive game at 5v5 has never been loved by analytics. He's realistically the 3rd best PP option on the Oilers right now...he cashed in on one nice season, the Oilers did not look at his body of work.

He's a good defenseman, but I have 24 guys that I think are better than him today. He's past the point where he's likely to improve. This could be a very very damaging contract going forward.

I’m not certain Nurse will ever earn his next contract, but your list suggests he’s the 25th best dman in a 32 team league. Sounds like a low end number 1 to me.

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.

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Re: Nurse Extended 8 Years 9.25 million per [message #802940 is a reply to message #802938 ]	Thu, 24 March 2022 20:58

Oscargasm
Messages: 5651
Registered: May 2009
Location: YEG

5 Cups

CrudeRemarks wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 20:48

smyth260 wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 20:05

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 17:29

smyth260 wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 18:20

I think its very hard to argue that 9.25M a year is NOT superstar money.

Nurse is slated to be 26th highest cap hit next year. Only 6 defensemen make more than him.

So far.

Here's the question. Forgetting pay, how many D would you rather have over Nurse? The top 20 non-Nurse D in my fantasy league are: Josi, Makar, Letang, Hedman, Ekblan, Trouba, Fox, Weegar, McAvoy, Carlson, Seider, Reilly, Toews, Gudas, Pietrangelo, Hughes, Krug, Faulk, Dobson, Andersson.

I think Nurse is a top 10 D. If he's overpaid, it's not by very much.

This is an interesting question, I've had fun putting the time thinking about this one and was surprised how fast the list grew.

Ignoring pay, age, contract length, and just looking at play I would trade Nurse straight up for these players:

No Brainers - 9
Josi
Makar
Fox
Hedman
McAvoy
Pietrangelo
Ekblad
Letang
Hamilton

Convincing Yes - 7
Heiskanen
Petry (trying to ignore a strange disappearance this season)
D. Toews
Ellis
Spurgeon
Theodore
Dahlin

Pretty Likely Yes - 8
Chabot
Carlson
Q. Hughes
Seider
Ekholm
Werenski
Weegar
Slavin

Take it or leave it
H. Lindholm
Rielly
Chychrun
S. Jones
Klingberg
Krug
Doughty

This twitter thread is a pretty good dive into Nurse.
https://twitter.com/jfreshhockey/status/1423708086670397444? lang=en

Nurse seems like he's kind of a one trick pony. All even strength offense. But even then, he's not really elite at it. Since 2018-19, he is only 38th in 5v5 P/60 (min 50GP). His defensive game at 5v5 has never been loved by analytics. He's realistically the 3rd best PP option on the Oilers right now...he cashed in on one nice season, the Oilers did not look at his body of work.

He's a good defenseman, but I have 24 guys that I think are better than him today. He's past the point where he's likely to improve. This could be a very very damaging contract going forward.

I’m not certain Nurse will ever earn his next contract, but your list suggests he’s the 25th best dman in a 32 team league. Sounds like a low end number 1 to me.

Low end (de facto) number one paid like a consistently elite number 1.

Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
OG's #MUSTWIN Scale
Category 1 - Lightly Musty
Category 2 - Moderately Musty
Category 3 - Considerably Musty
Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty

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Re: Nurse Extended 8 Years 9.25 million per [message #802941 is a reply to message #802940 ]	Thu, 24 March 2022 21:00

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7632
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

So… slightly overpaid and the Oilers would be a mess without him. I’ll say again, if the overpayment meant the difference between keeping and losing their low number 1, he’s worth the money.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Nurse Extended 8 Years 9.25 million per [message #802949 is a reply to message #802940 ]	Thu, 24 March 2022 21:31

inverno76
Messages: 2104
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

Oscargasm wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 20:58

CrudeRemarks wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 20:48

smyth260 wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 20:05

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 17:29

smyth260 wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 18:20

I think its very hard to argue that 9.25M a year is NOT superstar money.

Nurse is slated to be 26th highest cap hit next year. Only 6 defensemen make more than him.

So far.

Here's the question. Forgetting pay, how many D would you rather have over Nurse? The top 20 non-Nurse D in my fantasy league are: Josi, Makar, Letang, Hedman, Ekblan, Trouba, Fox, Weegar, McAvoy, Carlson, Seider, Reilly, Toews, Gudas, Pietrangelo, Hughes, Krug, Faulk, Dobson, Andersson.

I think Nurse is a top 10 D. If he's overpaid, it's not by very much.

This is an interesting question, I've had fun putting the time thinking about this one and was surprised how fast the list grew.

Ignoring pay, age, contract length, and just looking at play I would trade Nurse straight up for these players:

No Brainers - 9
Josi
Makar
Fox
Hedman
McAvoy
Pietrangelo
Ekblad
Letang
Hamilton

Convincing Yes - 7
Heiskanen
Petry (trying to ignore a strange disappearance this season)
D. Toews
Ellis
Spurgeon
Theodore
Dahlin

Pretty Likely Yes - 8
Chabot
Carlson
Q. Hughes
Seider
Ekholm
Werenski
Weegar
Slavin

Take it or leave it
H. Lindholm
Rielly
Chychrun
S. Jones
Klingberg
Krug
Doughty

This twitter thread is a pretty good dive into Nurse.
https://twitter.com/jfreshhockey/status/1423708086670397444? lang=en

Nurse seems like he's kind of a one trick pony. All even strength offense. But even then, he's not really elite at it. Since 2018-19, he is only 38th in 5v5 P/60 (min 50GP). His defensive game at 5v5 has never been loved by analytics. He's realistically the 3rd best PP option on the Oilers right now...he cashed in on one nice season, the Oilers did not look at his body of work.

He's a good defenseman, but I have 24 guys that I think are better than him today. He's past the point where he's likely to improve. This could be a very very damaging contract going forward.

I’m not certain Nurse will ever earn his next contract, but your list suggests he’s the 25th best dman in a 32 team league. Sounds like a low end number 1 to me.

Low end (de facto) number one paid like a consistently elite number 1.

Until 2025 where his contract falls to the mean. I’m not a Nurse or Holland apologist, but his contract isn’t going to be bad unless something drastic happens. It’s also very unlikely it’ll ever be a good contract, much less a value contract.

All I am saying he is not the reason Edmonton gets in cap problems.

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Re: Nurse Extended 8 Years 9.25 million per [message #802953 is a reply to message #802949 ]	Thu, 24 March 2022 21:34

Oscargasm
Messages: 5651
Registered: May 2009
Location: YEG

5 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 21:31

Oscargasm wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 20:58

CrudeRemarks wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 20:48

smyth260 wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 20:05

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 17:29

smyth260 wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 18:20

I think its very hard to argue that 9.25M a year is NOT superstar money.

Nurse is slated to be 26th highest cap hit next year. Only 6 defensemen make more than him.

So far.

Here's the question. Forgetting pay, how many D would you rather have over Nurse? The top 20 non-Nurse D in my fantasy league are: Josi, Makar, Letang, Hedman, Ekblan, Trouba, Fox, Weegar, McAvoy, Carlson, Seider, Reilly, Toews, Gudas, Pietrangelo, Hughes, Krug, Faulk, Dobson, Andersson.

I think Nurse is a top 10 D. If he's overpaid, it's not by very much.

This is an interesting question, I've had fun putting the time thinking about this one and was surprised how fast the list grew.

Ignoring pay, age, contract length, and just looking at play I would trade Nurse straight up for these players:

No Brainers - 9
Josi
Makar
Fox
Hedman
McAvoy
Pietrangelo
Ekblad
Letang
Hamilton

Convincing Yes - 7
Heiskanen
Petry (trying to ignore a strange disappearance this season)
D. Toews
Ellis
Spurgeon
Theodore
Dahlin

Pretty Likely Yes - 8
Chabot
Carlson
Q. Hughes
Seider
Ekholm
Werenski
Weegar
Slavin

Take it or leave it
H. Lindholm
Rielly
Chychrun
S. Jones
Klingberg
Krug
Doughty

This twitter thread is a pretty good dive into Nurse.
https://twitter.com/jfreshhockey/status/1423708086670397444? lang=en

Nurse seems like he's kind of a one trick pony. All even strength offense. But even then, he's not really elite at it. Since 2018-19, he is only 38th in 5v5 P/60 (min 50GP). His defensive game at 5v5 has never been loved by analytics. He's realistically the 3rd best PP option on the Oilers right now...he cashed in on one nice season, the Oilers did not look at his body of work.

He's a good defenseman, but I have 24 guys that I think are better than him today. He's past the point where he's likely to improve. This could be a very very damaging contract going forward.

I’m not certain Nurse will ever earn his next contract, but your list suggests he’s the 25th best dman in a 32 team league. Sounds like a low end number 1 to me.

Low end (de facto) number one paid like a consistently elite number 1.

Until 2025 where his contract falls to the mean. I’m not a Nurse or Holland apologist, but his contract isn’t going to be bad unless something drastic happens. It’s also very unlikely it’ll ever be a good contract, much less a value contract.

All I am saying he is not the reason Edmonton gets in cap problems.

In 2025 when his cap hit is still 9.25?

No, his contract is not the reason Edmonton will be in Cap h-e-double hockey sticks. But it’s a contributing factor in it and a direct contributor to the possible departure of Yamo, JP and or Kane.

Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
OG's #MUSTWIN Scale
Category 1 - Lightly Musty
Category 2 - Moderately Musty
Category 3 - Considerably Musty
Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty

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Re: Nurse Extended 8 Years 9.25 million per [message #802962 is a reply to message #802953 ]	Thu, 24 March 2022 21:48

inverno76
Messages: 2104
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

Oscargasm wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 21:34

inverno76 wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 21:31

Oscargasm wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 20:58

CrudeRemarks wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 20:48

smyth260 wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 20:05

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 17:29

smyth260 wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 18:20

I think its very hard to argue that 9.25M a year is NOT superstar money.

Nurse is slated to be 26th highest cap hit next year. Only 6 defensemen make more than him.

So far.

Here's the question. Forgetting pay, how many D would you rather have over Nurse? The top 20 non-Nurse D in my fantasy league are: Josi, Makar, Letang, Hedman, Ekblan, Trouba, Fox, Weegar, McAvoy, Carlson, Seider, Reilly, Toews, Gudas, Pietrangelo, Hughes, Krug, Faulk, Dobson, Andersson.

I think Nurse is a top 10 D. If he's overpaid, it's not by very much.

This is an interesting question, I've had fun putting the time thinking about this one and was surprised how fast the list grew.

Ignoring pay, age, contract length, and just looking at play I would trade Nurse straight up for these players:

No Brainers - 9
Josi
Makar
Fox
Hedman
McAvoy
Pietrangelo
Ekblad
Letang
Hamilton

Convincing Yes - 7
Heiskanen
Petry (trying to ignore a strange disappearance this season)
D. Toews
Ellis
Spurgeon
Theodore
Dahlin

Pretty Likely Yes - 8
Chabot
Carlson
Q. Hughes
Seider
Ekholm
Werenski
Weegar
Slavin

Take it or leave it
H. Lindholm
Rielly
Chychrun
S. Jones
Klingberg
Krug
Doughty

This twitter thread is a pretty good dive into Nurse.
https://twitter.com/jfreshhockey/status/1423708086670397444? lang=en

Nurse seems like he's kind of a one trick pony. All even strength offense. But even then, he's not really elite at it. Since 2018-19, he is only 38th in 5v5 P/60 (min 50GP). His defensive game at 5v5 has never been loved by analytics. He's realistically the 3rd best PP option on the Oilers right now...he cashed in on one nice season, the Oilers did not look at his body of work.

He's a good defenseman, but I have 24 guys that I think are better than him today. He's past the point where he's likely to improve. This could be a very very damaging contract going forward.

I’m not certain Nurse will ever earn his next contract, but your list suggests he’s the 25th best dman in a 32 team league. Sounds like a low end number 1 to me.

Low end (de facto) number one paid like a consistently elite number 1.

Until 2025 where his contract falls to the mean. I’m not a Nurse or Holland apologist, but his contract isn’t going to be bad unless something drastic happens. It’s also very unlikely it’ll ever be a good contract, much less a value contract.

All I am saying he is not the reason Edmonton gets in cap problems.

In 2025 when his cap hit is still 9.25?

No, his contract is not the reason Edmonton will be in Cap h-e-double hockey sticks. But it’s a contributing factor in it and a direct contributor to the possible departure of Yamo, JP and or Kane.

Draisaitl should have been re-upped at 7M. Contributing factor.

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Re: Nurse Extended 8 Years 9.25 million per [message #802970 is a reply to message #802962 ]	Thu, 24 March 2022 22:25

Oscargasm
Messages: 5651
Registered: May 2009
Location: YEG

5 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 21:48

Oscargasm wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 21:34

inverno76 wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 21:31

Oscargasm wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 20:58

CrudeRemarks wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 20:48

smyth260 wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 20:05

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 17:29

smyth260 wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 18:20

I think its very hard to argue that 9.25M a year is NOT superstar money.

Nurse is slated to be 26th highest cap hit next year. Only 6 defensemen make more than him.

So far.

Here's the question. Forgetting pay, how many D would you rather have over Nurse? The top 20 non-Nurse D in my fantasy league are: Josi, Makar, Letang, Hedman, Ekblan, Trouba, Fox, Weegar, McAvoy, Carlson, Seider, Reilly, Toews, Gudas, Pietrangelo, Hughes, Krug, Faulk, Dobson, Andersson.

I think Nurse is a top 10 D. If he's overpaid, it's not by very much.

This is an interesting question, I've had fun putting the time thinking about this one and was surprised how fast the list grew.

Ignoring pay, age, contract length, and just looking at play I would trade Nurse straight up for these players:

No Brainers - 9
Josi
Makar
Fox
Hedman
McAvoy
Pietrangelo
Ekblad
Letang
Hamilton

Convincing Yes - 7
Heiskanen
Petry (trying to ignore a strange disappearance this season)
D. Toews
Ellis
Spurgeon
Theodore
Dahlin

Pretty Likely Yes - 8
Chabot
Carlson
Q. Hughes
Seider
Ekholm
Werenski
Weegar
Slavin

Take it or leave it
H. Lindholm
Rielly
Chychrun
S. Jones
Klingberg
Krug
Doughty

This twitter thread is a pretty good dive into Nurse.
https://twitter.com/jfreshhockey/status/1423708086670397444? lang=en

Nurse seems like he's kind of a one trick pony. All even strength offense. But even then, he's not really elite at it. Since 2018-19, he is only 38th in 5v5 P/60 (min 50GP). His defensive game at 5v5 has never been loved by analytics. He's realistically the 3rd best PP option on the Oilers right now...he cashed in on one nice season, the Oilers did not look at his body of work.

He's a good defenseman, but I have 24 guys that I think are better than him today. He's past the point where he's likely to improve. This could be a very very damaging contract going forward.

I’m not certain Nurse will ever earn his next contract, but your list suggests he’s the 25th best dman in a 32 team league. Sounds like a low end number 1 to me.

Low end (de facto) number one paid like a consistently elite number 1.

Until 2025 where his contract falls to the mean. I’m not a Nurse or Holland apologist, but his contract isn’t going to be bad unless something drastic happens. It’s also very unlikely it’ll ever be a good contract, much less a value contract.

All I am saying he is not the reason Edmonton gets in cap problems.

In 2025 when his cap hit is still 9.25?

No, his contract is not the reason Edmonton will be in Cap h-e-double hockey sticks. But it’s a contributing factor in it and a direct contributor to the possible departure of Yamo, JP and or Kane.

Draisaitl should have been re-upped at 7M. Contributing factor.

Draisaitl takes 7 results in Darnell seeing an extra Mil available and we’re talking about Darnell at 10.25.

Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
OG's #MUSTWIN Scale
Category 1 - Lightly Musty
Category 2 - Moderately Musty
Category 3 - Considerably Musty
Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty

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Re: Nurse Extended 8 Years 9.25 million per [message #802973 is a reply to message #802970 ]	Thu, 24 March 2022 22:31

inverno76
Messages: 2104
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

Oscargasm wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 22:25

inverno76 wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 21:48

Oscargasm wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 21:34

inverno76 wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 21:31

Oscargasm wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 20:58

CrudeRemarks wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 20:48

smyth260 wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 20:05

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 17:29

smyth260 wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 18:20

I think its very hard to argue that 9.25M a year is NOT superstar money.

Nurse is slated to be 26th highest cap hit next year. Only 6 defensemen make more than him.

So far.

Here's the question. Forgetting pay, how many D would you rather have over Nurse? The top 20 non-Nurse D in my fantasy league are: Josi, Makar, Letang, Hedman, Ekblan, Trouba, Fox, Weegar, McAvoy, Carlson, Seider, Reilly, Toews, Gudas, Pietrangelo, Hughes, Krug, Faulk, Dobson, Andersson.

I think Nurse is a top 10 D. If he's overpaid, it's not by very much.

This is an interesting question, I've had fun putting the time thinking about this one and was surprised how fast the list grew.

Ignoring pay, age, contract length, and just looking at play I would trade Nurse straight up for these players:

No Brainers - 9
Josi
Makar
Fox
Hedman
McAvoy
Pietrangelo
Ekblad
Letang
Hamilton

Convincing Yes - 7
Heiskanen
Petry (trying to ignore a strange disappearance this season)
D. Toews
Ellis
Spurgeon
Theodore
Dahlin

Pretty Likely Yes - 8
Chabot
Carlson
Q. Hughes
Seider
Ekholm
Werenski
Weegar
Slavin

Take it or leave it
H. Lindholm
Rielly
Chychrun
S. Jones
Klingberg
Krug
Doughty

This twitter thread is a pretty good dive into Nurse.
https://twitter.com/jfreshhockey/status/1423708086670397444? lang=en

Nurse seems like he's kind of a one trick pony. All even strength offense. But even then, he's not really elite at it. Since 2018-19, he is only 38th in 5v5 P/60 (min 50GP). His defensive game at 5v5 has never been loved by analytics. He's realistically the 3rd best PP option on the Oilers right now...he cashed in on one nice season, the Oilers did not look at his body of work.

He's a good defenseman, but I have 24 guys that I think are better than him today. He's past the point where he's likely to improve. This could be a very very damaging contract going forward.

I’m not certain Nurse will ever earn his next contract, but your list suggests he’s the 25th best dman in a 32 team league. Sounds like a low end number 1 to me.

Low end (de facto) number one paid like a consistently elite number 1.

Until 2025 where his contract falls to the mean. I’m not a Nurse or Holland apologist, but his contract isn’t going to be bad unless something drastic happens. It’s also very unlikely it’ll ever be a good contract, much less a value contract.

All I am saying he is not the reason Edmonton gets in cap problems.

In 2025 when his cap hit is still 9.25?

No, his contract is not the reason Edmonton will be in Cap h-e-double hockey sticks. But it’s a contributing factor in it and a direct contributor to the possible departure of Yamo, JP and or Kane.

Draisaitl should have been re-upped at 7M. Contributing factor.

Draisaitl takes 7 results in Darnell seeing an extra Mil available and we’re talking about Darnell at 10.25.

That’s a reach. More like Smith at 2.75 and Kassian at 4M flat.

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Re: Nurse Extended 8 Years 9.25 million per [message #803001 is a reply to message #802949 ]	Fri, 25 March 2022 11:41

Goose
Messages: 1098
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver

1 Cup

inverno76 wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 20:31

Until 2025 where his contract falls to the mean. I’m not a Nurse or Holland apologist, but his contract isn’t going to be bad unless something drastic happens. It’s also very unlikely it’ll ever be a good contract, much less a value contract.

All I am saying he is not the reason Edmonton gets in cap problems.

PK Subban signed for $9M in 2014. He's still the 6th highest paid defenceman in the NHL. I don't think salaries are going to move as much as you think they will over the term of this contract, nevermind by 2025. I'm not saying that Nurse is going to turn into PK Subban, but I'd say paying him $9.25M when he's 30+ years old has a decent chance of being bad, even without something drastic happening. Aging curves are a real thing.

It's interesting that the consensus seems to be that Nurse is only overpaid by $1M. I think he hit the absolute sweet spot in terms of his deal coming off a career season driven by shooting percentages (personal and on-ice), playing a ton with McDavid, benefiting from Klefbom's injury, and the market for good, not great, defencemen being bonkers last summer. I've said before, I don't think that any of the guys that signed those big deals last year will live up to them, even in the short term.

I think in any other year Nurse is in the $7.5M range, and that's a much more manageable number. And if Klefbom doesn't get hurt and the Oilers aren't forced to play Nurse 26 minutes a night, I think it could have been even less.

This year he's 40th among defencemen in EV points and 23rd in EV goals. Last year he was 4th and 1st respectively. Just impeccable timing.

He's a guy that can log a ton of minutes, but he's not a great defender and unfortunately, as other's have said, he's being paid like an elite, all-situations player, and he just isn't.

Also, I think you all are sleeping on Devon Toews. Makar gets all the praise in Colorado, but I think that guy is up there as one of the best defencemen in the league, and at $4.1M for the next 2 seasons. Dare to dream.

[Updated on: Fri, 25 March 2022 11:59]

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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Re: Nurse Extended 8 Years 9.25 million per [message #803011 is a reply to message #803001 ]	Fri, 25 March 2022 14:09

Oscargasm
Messages: 5651
Registered: May 2009
Location: YEG

5 Cups

Goose wrote on Fri, 25 March 2022 11:41

inverno76 wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 20:31

Until 2025 where his contract falls to the mean. I’m not a Nurse or Holland apologist, but his contract isn’t going to be bad unless something drastic happens. It’s also very unlikely it’ll ever be a good contract, much less a value contract.

All I am saying he is not the reason Edmonton gets in cap problems.

PK Subban signed for $9M in 2014. He's still the 6th highest paid defenceman in the NHL. I don't think salaries are going to move as much as you think they will over the term of this contract, nevermind by 2025. I'm not saying that Nurse is going to turn into PK Subban, but I'd say paying him $9.25M when he's 30+ years old has a decent chance of being bad, even without something drastic happening. Aging curves are a real thing.

It's interesting that the consensus seems to be that Nurse is only overpaid by $1M. I think he hit the absolute sweet spot in terms of his deal coming off a career season driven by shooting percentages (personal and on-ice), playing a ton with McDavid, benefiting from Klefbom's injury, and the market for good, not great, defencemen being bonkers last summer. I've said before, I don't think that any of the guys that signed those big deals last year will live up to them, even in the short term.

I think in any other year Nurse is in the $7.5M range, and that's a much more manageable number. And if Klefbom doesn't get hurt and the Oilers aren't forced to play Nurse 26 minutes a night, I think it could have been even less.

This year he's 40th among defencemen in EV points and 23rd in EV goals. Last year he was 4th and 1st respectively. Just impeccable timing.

He's a guy that can log a ton of minutes, but he's not a great defender and unfortunately, as other's have said, he's being paid like an elite, all-situations player, and he just isn't.

Also, I think you all are sleeping on Devon Toews. Makar gets all the praise in Colorado, but I think that guy is up there as one of the best defencemen in the league, and at $4.1M for the next 2 seasons. Dare to dream.

FWIW I think he’s 2-2.25 overpaid on a good day.

Even if it was just 1M, that 1M may very well be the difference between a can kicker deal for yamo and JP while not having a sniff of a chance of retaining Kane on a 1-2 year deal. Nurse’s deal simply handcuffs the team before it comes into effect. There are other contributing factors to the handcuffing, but it’s what will be a 28 year old dman who has never had consistency in his game making superstar money.

Kass is overpaid for what he consistently brings just as much as Nurse will be next season for the consistency we’ve seen throughout his career so far. The only constant is his lack of hockey smarts in defending. I won’t argue about his offensive numbers. But Nurse isn’t at an age where anyone in their right mind can honesty expect that switch to flip and he becomes a legit top flight consistent dman in the league, it just won’t happen. And that is my biggest gripe with the cap hit.

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Re: Nurse Extended 8 Years 9.25 million per [message #803012 is a reply to message #803011 ]	Fri, 25 March 2022 14:28

Skookum Jim
Messages: 3869
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

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Oscargasm wrote on Fri, 25 March 2022 13:09

...The only constant is his lack of hockey smarts in defending...

That's my biggest criticism of him, and as you say he's at an age where it'll be hard to change. If D. Manson can't have an effect on him it won't happen.

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
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P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Nurse Extended 8 Years 9.25 million per [message #803013 is a reply to message #803011 ]	Fri, 25 March 2022 14:41

Adam
Messages: 6806
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Oscargasm wrote on Fri, 25 March 2022 14:09

FWIW I think he’s 2-2.25 overpaid on a good day.

Even if it was just 1M, that 1M may very well be the difference between a can kicker deal for yamo and JP while not having a sniff of a chance of retaining Kane on a 1-2 year deal. Nurse’s deal simply handcuffs the team before it comes into effect. There are other contributing factors to the handcuffing, but it’s what will be a 28 year old dman who has never had consistency in his game making superstar money.

Kass is overpaid for what he consistently brings just as much as Nurse will be next season for the consistency we’ve seen throughout his career so far. The only constant is his lack of hockey smarts in defending. I won’t argue about his offensive numbers. But Nurse isn’t at an age where anyone in their right mind can honesty expect that switch to flip and he becomes a legit top flight consistent dman in the league, it just won’t happen. And that is my biggest gripe with the cap hit.

Here's what I think on this:

- some guys overthink things and take underperforming to certain metrics to mean no value at all. I think some of the criticism of Nurse borders on hyperbole.
- I think some of the defenders are guilty of over-valuing aspects with limited value or that are challenging to put a value on - such as "tough as nails". How do you define that, and is it just because he's been in a handful of fights? What's the actual value of that trait?
- Even strength point production is difficult and Nurse has been good at that even during the Tippett era, when the Oilers generally weren't a great 5v5 team.
- I think the criticisms of his defence, while not completely without merit, are overblown. He is playing against all the hardest opposition this year, both with Tippett and with Woodcroft as coach. He's +15 on the season, following a +27 last year. That's tops on the team for defencemen in both years.
- I think ideally, Nurse plays a little less, and gets a break from top opposition ALL the time. If the team still had Klefbom, I think that's maybe more manageable. Klefbom is still a big loss, and should be a real cautionary tale for the team. Careers are short and unpredictable so can't assume that our stars are here for years and years. Have to look to win now - that's a tangent though.
- I would really like to see the team de-program Nurse's shooting bias. I hate the long hopeful shot on an unscreened goalie. I think it's been coached by Tippett/Playfair the last couple years that you shoot from everywhere and Nurse has embraced this more than anyone, but it's a waste and just kills possessions. He doesn't have the shot to overpower goalies, so he needs to make better decision-making there. I do think that's coachable though.

There is no doubt that Nurse is over-priced, and that he negotiated his deal at the best possible time. He also negotiated against an Oilers management team that we've seen is not very good at positioning. They should be arguing on every deal that they need the player to take less than the maximum amount because it gives them the opportunity to build and keep a winner around that player. They could point to McDavid's deal and him not taking max money, and as much as it wasn't a discount at the time, I would even point to Draisaitl's now. Did Nurse really need to make more than him? It would be slightly harder negotiations potentially, but if you even save only 5% on every contract, that adds up and makes a big difference for cap management. Of course, you can't give a soon-to-be 40 year old a two year deal at relatively high dollars as you're trying to convince your top defenceman to take a discount.

Given his salary and what he brings, I would trade him for a significant other defencemen, most of whom would be much cheaper. If there was a drop off, you could use the salary difference to backfill. I don't think that's happening though. The team loves Nurse and he's seen as one of the pillars here. I don't think the hyperbole is helpful because it makes for nasty internet conversations about an important player and I think that's toxic. Not necessarily this discussion here, but some of the stuff on twitter. It's a bit much and it ignores what he does do right - of which there is plenty.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: Nurse Extended 8 Years 9.25 million per [message #802944 is a reply to message #802938 ]	Thu, 24 March 2022 21:16

smyth260
Messages: 940
Registered: November 2007

No Cups

CrudeRemarks wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 19:48

smyth260 wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 20:05

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 17:29

smyth260 wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 18:20

I think its very hard to argue that 9.25M a year is NOT superstar money.

Nurse is slated to be 26th highest cap hit next year. Only 6 defensemen make more than him.

So far.

Here's the question. Forgetting pay, how many D would you rather have over Nurse? The top 20 non-Nurse D in my fantasy league are: Josi, Makar, Letang, Hedman, Ekblan, Trouba, Fox, Weegar, McAvoy, Carlson, Seider, Reilly, Toews, Gudas, Pietrangelo, Hughes, Krug, Faulk, Dobson, Andersson.

I think Nurse is a top 10 D. If he's overpaid, it's not by very much.

This is an interesting question, I've had fun putting the time thinking about this one and was surprised how fast the list grew.

Ignoring pay, age, contract length, and just looking at play I would trade Nurse straight up for these players:

No Brainers - 9
Josi
Makar
Fox
Hedman
McAvoy
Pietrangelo
Ekblad
Letang
Hamilton

Convincing Yes - 7
Heiskanen
Petry (trying to ignore a strange disappearance this season)
D. Toews
Ellis
Spurgeon
Theodore
Dahlin

Pretty Likely Yes - 8
Chabot
Carlson
Q. Hughes
Seider
Ekholm
Werenski
Weegar
Slavin

Take it or leave it
H. Lindholm
Rielly
Chychrun
S. Jones
Klingberg
Krug
Doughty

This twitter thread is a pretty good dive into Nurse.
https://twitter.com/jfreshhockey/status/1423708086670397444? lang=en

Nurse seems like he's kind of a one trick pony. All even strength offense. But even then, he's not really elite at it. Since 2018-19, he is only 38th in 5v5 P/60 (min 50GP). His defensive game at 5v5 has never been loved by analytics. He's realistically the 3rd best PP option on the Oilers right now...he cashed in on one nice season, the Oilers did not look at his body of work.

He's a good defenseman, but I have 24 guys that I think are better than him today. He's past the point where he's likely to improve. This could be a very very damaging contract going forward.

I’m not certain Nurse will ever earn his next contract, but your list suggests he’s the 25th best dman in a 32 team league. Sounds like a low end number 1 to me.

He probably is a number 1, but that isn't the debate. I am contesting the two previous assertions that:

1) He's a top 10D in the league.
2) He's not getting paid like a superstar.

6th highest paid defenseman next year implies superstar. Being called low-end does not imply superstar.

It's an overpay. I think a smart GM could build a better defense with the 9.25M and whatever pick they would have got for trading him.

But Connor would definitely be upset.

Clean house or bust

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Re: Nurse Extended 8 Years 9.25 million per [message #802951 is a reply to message #802944 ]	Thu, 24 March 2022 21:32

Oscargasm
Messages: 5651
Registered: May 2009
Location: YEG

5 Cups

smyth260 wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 21:16

CrudeRemarks wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 19:48

smyth260 wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 20:05

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 17:29

smyth260 wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 18:20

I think its very hard to argue that 9.25M a year is NOT superstar money.

Nurse is slated to be 26th highest cap hit next year. Only 6 defensemen make more than him.

So far.

Here's the question. Forgetting pay, how many D would you rather have over Nurse? The top 20 non-Nurse D in my fantasy league are: Josi, Makar, Letang, Hedman, Ekblan, Trouba, Fox, Weegar, McAvoy, Carlson, Seider, Reilly, Toews, Gudas, Pietrangelo, Hughes, Krug, Faulk, Dobson, Andersson.

I think Nurse is a top 10 D. If he's overpaid, it's not by very much.

This is an interesting question, I've had fun putting the time thinking about this one and was surprised how fast the list grew.

Ignoring pay, age, contract length, and just looking at play I would trade Nurse straight up for these players:

No Brainers - 9
Josi
Makar
Fox
Hedman
McAvoy
Pietrangelo
Ekblad
Letang
Hamilton

Convincing Yes - 7
Heiskanen
Petry (trying to ignore a strange disappearance this season)
D. Toews
Ellis
Spurgeon
Theodore
Dahlin

Pretty Likely Yes - 8
Chabot
Carlson
Q. Hughes
Seider
Ekholm
Werenski
Weegar
Slavin

Take it or leave it
H. Lindholm
Rielly
Chychrun
S. Jones
Klingberg
Krug
Doughty

This twitter thread is a pretty good dive into Nurse.
https://twitter.com/jfreshhockey/status/1423708086670397444? lang=en

Nurse seems like he's kind of a one trick pony. All even strength offense. But even then, he's not really elite at it. Since 2018-19, he is only 38th in 5v5 P/60 (min 50GP). His defensive game at 5v5 has never been loved by analytics. He's realistically the 3rd best PP option on the Oilers right now...he cashed in on one nice season, the Oilers did not look at his body of work.

He's a good defenseman, but I have 24 guys that I think are better than him today. He's past the point where he's likely to improve. This could be a very very damaging contract going forward.

I’m not certain Nurse will ever earn his next contract, but your list suggests he’s the 25th best dman in a 32 team league. Sounds like a low end number 1 to me.

He probably is a number 1, but that isn't the debate. I am contesting the two previous assertions that:

1) He's a top 10D in the league.
2) He's not getting paid like a superstar.

6th highest paid defenseman next year implies superstar. Being called low-end does not imply superstar.

It's an overpay. I think a smart GM could build a better defense with the 9.25M and whatever pick they would have got for trading him.

But Connor would definitely be upset.

Every team has a ‘number one’ dman. But that doesn’t mean every team has a number one dman. Just like every team has a number one goalie… but no one here will call Smith or Koskinen a number one.

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Re: Nurse Extended 8 Years 9.25 million per [message #802960 is a reply to message #802951 ]	Thu, 24 March 2022 21:47

inverno76
Messages: 2104
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

Oscargasm wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 21:32

smyth260 wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 21:16

CrudeRemarks wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 19:48

smyth260 wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 20:05

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 17:29

smyth260 wrote on Thu, 24 March 2022 18:20

I think its very hard to argue that 9.25M a year is NOT superstar money.

Nurse is slated to be 26th highest cap hit next year. Only 6 defensemen make more than him.

So far.

Here's the question. Forgetting pay, how many D would you rather have over Nurse? The top 20 non-Nurse D in my fantasy league are: Josi, Makar, Letang, Hedman, Ekblan, Trouba, Fox, Weegar, McAvoy, Carlson, Seider, Reilly, Toews, Gudas, Pietrangelo, Hughes, Krug, Faulk, Dobson, Andersson.

I think Nurse is a top 10 D. If he's overpaid, it's not by very much.

This is an interesting question, I've had fun putting the time thinking about this one and was surprised how fast the list grew.

Ignoring pay, age, contract length, and just looking at play I would trade Nurse straight up for these players:

No Brainers - 9
Josi
Makar
Fox
Hedman
McAvoy
Pietrangelo
Ekblad
Letang
Hamilton

Convincing Yes - 7
Heiskanen
Petry (trying to ignore a strange disappearance this season)
D. Toews
Ellis
Spurgeon
Theodore
Dahlin

Pretty Likely Yes - 8
Chabot
Carlson
Q. Hughes
Seider
Ekholm
Werenski
Weegar
Slavin

Take it or leave it
H. Lindholm
Rielly
Chychrun
S. Jones
Klingberg
Krug
Doughty

This twitter thread is a pretty good dive into Nurse.
https://twitter.com/jfreshhockey/status/1423708086670397444? lang=en

Nurse seems like he's kind of a one trick pony. All even strength offense. But even then, he's not really elite at it. Since 2018-19, he is only 38th in 5v5 P/60 (min 50GP). His defensive game at 5v5 has never been loved by analytics. He's realistically the 3rd best PP option on the Oilers right now...he cashed in on one nice season, the Oilers did not look at his body of work.

He's a good defenseman, but I have 24 guys that I think are better than him today. He's past the point where he's likely to improve. This could be a very very damaging contract going forward.

I’m not certain Nurse will ever earn his next contract, but your list suggests he’s the 25th best dman in a 32 team league. Sounds like a low end number 1 to me.

He probably is a number 1, but that isn't the debate. I am contesting the two previous assertions that:

1) He's a top 10D in the league.
2) He's not getting paid like a superstar.

6th highest paid defenseman next year implies superstar. Being called low-end does not imply superstar.

It's an overpay. I think a smart GM could build a better defense with the 9.25M and whatever pick they would have got for trading him.

But Connor would definitely be upset.

Every team has a ‘number one’ dman. But that doesn’t mean every team has a number one dman. Just like every team has a number one goalie… but no one here will call Smith or Koskinen a number one.

Fortunately Nurse is closer to Hedman, than Smith/Koskinen are to Vasilesvsky.

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