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 Re: Sekera bought out... [message #739761 is a reply to message #739760 ]
Tue, 02 July 2019 00:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
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Magnum wrote on Tue, 02 July 2019 00:11

mightyreasoner wrote on Tue, 02 July 2019 00:05

Adam wrote on Mon, 01 July 2019 22:30

Iamheretoday wrote on Mon, 01 July 2019 21:46

Adam wrote on Mon, 01 July 2019 21:23

Iamheretoday wrote on Mon, 01 July 2019 19:22

I think the point of the buyout was the flexibility it provides. If there were a team to trade with I am sure they would have. As there were no takers, just cause we want to trade does not mean they have to take them, see Lucic. The flexibility gained hopes the door for trades, which is what I think the main focus has been. We were never in the running for big ticket free agents, so I am happy no silly mistakes were made.


We'll see what happens. I'm skeptical we're going to see a lot more changes this summer, which would make this similar to the Eberle trade/Pouliot buyout of a couple summers ago where we cleared room without actually needing or using it.

It doesn't make me comfortable at all to have the GM say today that the buyout is to clear room for young players. Haven't we learned yet to force young players to earn their spot on the team and take it from veterans? Why do we insist on always making space for guys before it's clear if they're ready to take it?


I think the fact we have 5 or 6 young defence men for what was 1 now 2 spots, might also play a big part. The dice have been cast, now we watch to see what comes next


Problem is that there's none of those 5 or 6 guys who are definitely NHL ready. They're banking on Jones or Bear making the jump this year, and that's far from a certainty - and if they don't make it it we don't have much of a safety net.


I think I'm comfortable with Jones. He played some Top-4 minutes and looked okay, at least initially; if they can shelter him better and play him on the third pairing, he should be able to make the jump. I think this is less "wild hopes" than a lot of the time when they bank on rookies (often fresh out of junior with little seasoning).

What I don't like is the talk of Samarukov or Bouchard on the team next year. To me that feels very different than Caleb Jones.


They’re also banking on Russell being a top four d-man. What in God’s name, makes them think he’s capable of that? More than Sekera?!


Yeah, that's more concerning for me. I don't think either Sekera or Russell are Top-4 right now. That's an addition that has been missing for literally years, and the Oilers seem unwilling to address.



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 Re: Sekera bought out... [message #739633 is a reply to message #739617 ]
Sun, 30 June 2019 15:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
K.McC#24  is currently offline K.McC#24
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Magnum wrote on Sun, 30 June 2019 12:56

sinfulchimp306 wrote on Sun, 30 June 2019 10:23

Kinda out of left field 2.5 cap hit according to cap friendly.


This move is an autonomous pile of garbage. The D was more or less set for the year. Unless there is a great d-man coming in, there is no good reason for this move.

Anyone want to bet Sekera has a good year somewhere else?




Sums it up for me. Doing this just puts pressure on to get value in another move that cancels out $2.5 mil of buyout money on the cap for 2 years and another 1.5 after that. I'm not sure where that value is coming from, I guess we'll see. Nothing is going to happen on Russell, or Lucic. Over $5 million in dead cap space, thanks largely to Chiarelli, and it appears that anything additional involving salary retention is out the window now.



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 Re: Sekera bought out... [message #739619 is a reply to message #739597 ]
Sun, 30 June 2019 13:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NetBOG  is currently offline NetBOG
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Ugh, buyouts are for complete fools, Holland just showed us his true colours.

The timing of this worries me. What giant overpay are we making tomorrow? Making one mistake today to allow us to make another mistake tomorrow.



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 Re: Sekera bought out... [message #739635 is a reply to message #739597 ]
Sun, 30 June 2019 15:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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So, Sek bought out for Smith.

I guess this actually makes sense. Sek was probably going to be our 2nd best puck mover on the back end next season. And now likely Mike Smith will replace him as our 2nd best non-forward puck mover.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Sekera bought out... [message #739641 is a reply to message #739597 ]
Sun, 30 June 2019 17:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stemhovlichski  is currently offline stemhovlichski
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Watched a very little bit of Sekera in the world's and he didn't look great. Last year he couldn't turn to the right and it looks like there is something functionally damaged on that side because of his injuries. I like his maturity, respect his history and wish he could play, but I think this is the right call moving forward. If he and Holland have talked about his abilities and progress and Holland has doubts, then this move is necessary. It's time we quit hoping for potential from damaged/unskilled/overage players and start dealing with cold hard facts: he was hurt, he is not 100%, he will never be 100%, move him out, replace him with better. The last part is the Holland's biggest challenge.


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 Re: Sekera bought out... [message #739643 is a reply to message #739641 ]
Sun, 30 June 2019 17:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ragnarok73  is currently offline Ragnarok73
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As if we needed more "interesting" moves right now, I am hearing rumblings that Holland wants to sign Mikey Smith to a $2 mil 1-year deal with performance incentives that could boost his salary up to $4 mil. What in the utter @$%@?! icon_frown


"There's no greater springboard to development than failure." - Craig MacTavish, April 13/15.

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"Sabres think the suck is their ally? They merely adopted the suck. The Oilers were born in it...molded by it."

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 Re: Sekera bought out... [message #739644 is a reply to message #739643 ]
Sun, 30 June 2019 17:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
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Ragnarok73 wrote on Sun, 30 June 2019 17:43

As if we needed more "interesting" moves right now, I am hearing rumblings that Holland wants to sign Mikey Smith to a $2 mil 1-year deal with performance incentives that could boost his salary up to $4 mil. What in the utter @$%@?! icon_frown


$6.5 - $8.5M in a Koskinen / Smith tandem (.906 and .898 save percentages respectively).
$5.9M in dead cap this year, and $3.8M in dead cap next year (still paying for Pouliot next year).
$11M between a fourth line winger (Lucic) and a third pairing defenseman (Russell)

That's like a full quarter of the salary cap.

There was a way to come out of the Sekera buyout better, but signing Smith and possibly Perry ain't it.

I'm almost not interested in anything the Oilers do tomorrow, because I don't see how that Koskinen/Smith tandem is competitive at all. Like what does it matter if they will just bleed goals against and be looking all year for a goalie to stop the puck. This is a Gustavsson move, except Gustavsson had a better save percentage the season before.

I'm coming to terms with the fact that McDavid will eventually run out of a patience and ask for a trade. Whether it's next summer or the summer after, this is the Oilers script of incompetence. I can't fault him, but I will forever hate this team if they let it get to that point.



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 Re: Sekera bought out... [message #739649 is a reply to message #739644 ]
Sun, 30 June 2019 18:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm  is currently offline nullterm
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mightyreasoner wrote on Sun, 30 June 2019 16:53

Ragnarok73 wrote on Sun, 30 June 2019 17:43

As if we needed more "interesting" moves right now, I am hearing rumblings that Holland wants to sign Mikey Smith to a $2 mil 1-year deal with performance incentives that could boost his salary up to $4 mil. What in the utter @$%@?! icon_frown


$6.5 - $8.5M in a Koskinen / Smith tandem (.906 and .898 save percentages respectively).
$5.9M in dead cap this year, and $3.8M in dead cap next year (still paying for Pouliot next year).
$11M between a fourth line winger (Lucic) and a third pairing defenseman (Russell)

That's like a full quarter of the salary cap.

There was a way to come out of the Sekera buyout better, but signing Smith and possibly Perry ain't it.

I'm almost not interested in anything the Oilers do tomorrow, because I don't see how that Koskinen/Smith tandem is competitive at all. Like what does it matter if they will just bleed goals against and be looking all year for a goalie to stop the puck. This is a Gustavsson move, except Gustavsson had a better save percentage the season before.

I'm coming to terms with the fact that McDavid will eventually run out of a patience and ask for a trade. Whether it's next summer or the summer after, this is the Oilers script of incompetence. I can't fault him, but I will forever hate this team if they let it get to that point.


Hopefully McMeltdown happens right when Seattle is starting up and he ends up there.

I can hit the restart button with a clean slate cheering for the Seattle team, and Connor gets a much needed second shot with a better organization too.

Because when the trade day comes, and I have to choose between the Oilers and McDavid, I don't like the Oil's chances.



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 Re: Sekera bought out... [message #739652 is a reply to message #739597 ]
Sun, 30 June 2019 18:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Rumour from Seravelli that Smith will join Oilers, 1 year deal. 2M + performance bonuses..

I like the 1 year, Mrazek likely wants term, which i don't give to a back-up, or a guy that isn't a true #1 (like Oilers did with Koskanen). Plus Mrazek would want more than 2M up front.. probably 3+, at least Smith is in performance bonuses.
If Koskenen plays like a #1 then maybe one of the farm kids can take a backup roll theyear after, If Koskanen bombs, then you need to shop for a bonafide #1, which isn't Mrazek.

Plot thickens...



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 Re: Sekera bought out... [message #739688 is a reply to message #739652 ]
Mon, 01 July 2019 10:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Magnum is currently online Magnum
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This buyout could mean that the overripe Bouchard is coming up for good.

Sigh.



2015/2016 - This Kool-Aid tastes like McDavid flavoured Drain-O.
2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.
2017/2018 - I'm drinking this Kool-Aid, in hopes that it's Drain-O.
2018/2019 - Another round of Drain-O, good sir!

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 Re: Sekera bought out... [message #739728 is a reply to message #739597 ]
Mon, 01 July 2019 15:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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4M of cap space now.

It would be funny if we went the whole season sitting on that 4M when this buyout saved us 3 :) Could relive the Chia years!



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Sekera bought out... [message #739729 is a reply to message #739597 ]
Mon, 01 July 2019 16:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ragnarok73  is currently offline Ragnarok73
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So far, the Oil just seemed to have done a whole lot of absolutely nothing. Granted, what else could we expect with the @$@#hole that Chia left the team in cap-wise?


"There's no greater springboard to development than failure." - Craig MacTavish, April 13/15.

5-14-6-1

"Sabres think the suck is their ally? They merely adopted the suck. The Oilers were born in it...molded by it."

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 Re: Sekera bought out... [message #739733 is a reply to message #739729 ]
Mon, 01 July 2019 18:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Magnum is currently online Magnum
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Ragnarok73 wrote on Mon, 01 July 2019 16:59

So far, the Oil just seemed to have done a whole lot of absolutely nothing. Granted, what else could we expect with the @$@#hole that Chia left the team in cap-wise?


Wish we had a veteran defence man with a history of being elite, with some upside.



2015/2016 - This Kool-Aid tastes like McDavid flavoured Drain-O.
2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.
2017/2018 - I'm drinking this Kool-Aid, in hopes that it's Drain-O.
2018/2019 - Another round of Drain-O, good sir!

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 Re: Sekera bought out... [message #739763 is a reply to message #739733 ]
Tue, 02 July 2019 08:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Magnum wrote on Mon, 01 July 2019 18:35

Ragnarok73 wrote on Mon, 01 July 2019 16:59

So far, the Oil just seemed to have done a whole lot of absolutely nothing. Granted, what else could we expect with the @$@#hole that Chia left the team in cap-wise?


Wish we had a veteran defence man with a history of being elite, with some upside.

I do too except I don't want the Oilers having to pay that guy 5.5 mill for the next 2 seasons. I'd also like to know he will actually be ready to go for the start of the season vs potentially getting hurt for the 3rd year in a row and I would like to know I can count on him for good mins vs crossing my fingers.



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 Re: Sekera bought out... [message #739765 is a reply to message #739763 ]
Tue, 02 July 2019 08:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 02 July 2019 08:02

Magnum wrote on Mon, 01 July 2019 18:35

Ragnarok73 wrote on Mon, 01 July 2019 16:59

So far, the Oil just seemed to have done a whole lot of absolutely nothing. Granted, what else could we expect with the @$@#hole that Chia left the team in cap-wise?


Wish we had a veteran defence man with a history of being elite, with some upside.

I do too except I don't want the Oilers having to pay that guy 5.5 mill for the next 2 seasons. I'd also like to know he will actually be ready to go for the start of the season vs potentially getting hurt for the 3rd year in a row and I would like to know I can count on him for good mins vs crossing my fingers.


If he costs you more than $3MM, you're paying the same as what you were paying Sekera, since we're on the hook for $2.5MM of cap space with Sekera this year.

There's not much left in the free agent market who's going to provide an update. Jake Gardiner...and that's about it. And I don't see Gardiner coming cheap or coming to Edmonton. He may have heard from his old teammate Justin Schultz about how Edmonton fans (most knowledgeable in the league icon_rolleyes) treat offensive defencemen - and even if he hadn't, he's undoubtedly heard that this team is a tire fire who can't get it together, even when gifted the best player on the planet.

So that leaves trades...but looking at Holland's record, he's not exactly good at making trades. He doesn't make many of them, and there's exceptionally few clear wins when he does make them, so we might be in tough here.



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 Re: Sekera bought out... [message #739768 is a reply to message #739765 ]
Tue, 02 July 2019 09:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Tue, 02 July 2019 08:48

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 02 July 2019 08:02

Magnum wrote on Mon, 01 July 2019 18:35

Ragnarok73 wrote on Mon, 01 July 2019 16:59

So far, the Oil just seemed to have done a whole lot of absolutely nothing. Granted, what else could we expect with the @$@#hole that Chia left the team in cap-wise?


Wish we had a veteran defence man with a history of being elite, with some upside.

I do too except I don't want the Oilers having to pay that guy 5.5 mill for the next 2 seasons. I'd also like to know he will actually be ready to go for the start of the season vs potentially getting hurt for the 3rd year in a row and I would like to know I can count on him for good mins vs crossing my fingers.


If he costs you more than $3MM, you're paying the same as what you were paying Sekera, since we're on the hook for $2.5MM of cap space with Sekera this year.

There's not much left in the free agent market who's going to provide an update. Jake Gardiner...and that's about it. And I don't see Gardiner coming cheap or coming to Edmonton. He may have heard from his old teammate Justin Schultz about how Edmonton fans (most knowledgeable in the league icon_rolleyes) treat offensive defencemen - and even if he hadn't, he's undoubtedly heard that this team is a tire fire who can't get it together, even when gifted the best player on the planet.

So that leaves trades...but looking at Holland's record, he's not exactly good at making trades. He doesn't make many of them, and there's exceptionally few clear wins when he does make them, so we might be in tough here.

What I don't understand is the notion that Sekera can be anything more than a 3rd pairing guy at best. He played 24 games last year and looked OK playing very sheltered 3rd pairing mins. He didn't dominate, all he did was show that he can probably play in the NHL which was a HUGE thing considering given coming off 2 major leg injuries, they was a chance he was done in the NHL.

What I find hypocritical with this is the Oilers had a young dman in Jones last year play close to the games that Sekera did. Jones played 17 games. When he was in the 3rd pair, Jones looked really good, when he got elevated to top 4, he did fine OK for a few games but slowly got exposed for being not ready. Going into this season most fans and media guys agree Jones is probably ready for full time NHL duty in a 3rd pairing role. He also might have the upside to elevate at some point. But no one is expecting him to play in the top 4 like some people think Sekera could. What's the difference other than experience? Jones moves the puck as good or better, he has more offense than Sekera at this point in his career, he's WAY, WAY more mobile than Sekera ever was. I don't think Jones should play in the top 4 but if someone is going to tell me that Sekera could do it with the main reason being he can pass the puck, in my opinion, you should be saying the same thing about Jones who has WAY more tools in the tool box than Sekera has at this point in his career.

In my opinion, the goal of the team should be to get rid of the breaking down, aging, expensive vets like a Sekera and turning their spots over to younger players. They needed to create a roster spot for a guy like Jones who is more so what the NHL needs in dmen than Sekera was. Sekera in my opinion is a 3rd pairing dman who shouldn't be any higher than the 3rd pair so in my opinion, you replace Sekera with a Jones and it upgrades your defense. You do lose experience but other than that, Jones does all the things Sekera does play all the things he can't, all while doing it for 720K. So you replace Sekera AND you have almost 2.3 mill left over.



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 Re: Sekera bought out... [message #739784 is a reply to message #739768 ]
Tue, 02 July 2019 10:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 02 July 2019 09:26

Adam wrote on Tue, 02 July 2019 08:48

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 02 July 2019 08:02

Magnum wrote on Mon, 01 July 2019 18:35

Ragnarok73 wrote on Mon, 01 July 2019 16:59

So far, the Oil just seemed to have done a whole lot of absolutely nothing. Granted, what else could we expect with the @$@#hole that Chia left the team in cap-wise?


Wish we had a veteran defence man with a history of being elite, with some upside.

I do too except I don't want the Oilers having to pay that guy 5.5 mill for the next 2 seasons. I'd also like to know he will actually be ready to go for the start of the season vs potentially getting hurt for the 3rd year in a row and I would like to know I can count on him for good mins vs crossing my fingers.


If he costs you more than $3MM, you're paying the same as what you were paying Sekera, since we're on the hook for $2.5MM of cap space with Sekera this year.

There's not much left in the free agent market who's going to provide an update. Jake Gardiner...and that's about it. And I don't see Gardiner coming cheap or coming to Edmonton. He may have heard from his old teammate Justin Schultz about how Edmonton fans (most knowledgeable in the league icon_rolleyes) treat offensive defencemen - and even if he hadn't, he's undoubtedly heard that this team is a tire fire who can't get it together, even when gifted the best player on the planet.

So that leaves trades...but looking at Holland's record, he's not exactly good at making trades. He doesn't make many of them, and there's exceptionally few clear wins when he does make them, so we might be in tough here.

What I don't understand is the notion that Sekera can be anything more than a 3rd pairing guy at best. He played 24 games last year and looked OK playing very sheltered 3rd pairing mins. He didn't dominate, all he did was show that he can probably play in the NHL which was a HUGE thing considering given coming off 2 major leg injuries, they was a chance he was done in the NHL.

What I find hypocritical with this is the Oilers had a young dman in Jones last year play close to the games that Sekera did. Jones played 17 games. When he was in the 3rd pair, Jones looked really good, when he got elevated to top 4, he did fine OK for a few games but slowly got exposed for being not ready. Going into this season most fans and media guys agree Jones is probably ready for full time NHL duty in a 3rd pairing role. He also might have the upside to elevate at some point. But no one is expecting him to play in the top 4 like some people think Sekera could. What's the difference other than experience? Jones moves the puck as good or better, he has more offense than Sekera at this point in his career, he's WAY, WAY more mobile than Sekera ever was. I don't think Jones should play in the top 4 but if someone is going to tell me that Sekera could do it with the main reason being he can pass the puck, in my opinion, you should be saying the same thing about Jones who has WAY more tools in the tool box than Sekera has at this point in his career.

In my opinion, the goal of the team should be to get rid of the breaking down, aging, expensive vets like a Sekera and turning their spots over to younger players. They needed to create a roster spot for a guy like Jones who is more so what the NHL needs in dmen than Sekera was. Sekera in my opinion is a 3rd pairing dman who shouldn't be any higher than the 3rd pair so in my opinion, you replace Sekera with a Jones and it upgrades your defense. You do lose experience but other than that, Jones does all the things Sekera does play all the things he can't, all while doing it for 720K. So you replace Sekera AND you have almost 2.3 mill left over.


I'm really happy if Jones can replace Sekera's contribution to the roster.

However:

1) he hasn't actually shown that he can be an adequate replacement. I didn't think he was solid at all. I thought he looked like he had the tools, but he was also in over his head from Game 1. He finished -9 in 17 games, despite the fact that he was mostly played against weaker opposition.

I did think he was overplayed by Hitchcock, who seemed fine with throwing him in the deep end. He played 7 games with well over 20 minutes, which is a lot for a young d-man.

Part of that was lack of options due to injury, but he kept playing through much of January, despite the fact we'd brought in two veteran defencemen who were supposed to fill the void left by all the injuries.

He did alright from a points perspective with 6 points in 17 games, but his game needed a lot of work at the NHL level.

2) Sekera is better than Kris Russell who we kept. If you're going to get rid of an over-priced third pairing defenceman, maybe it makes sense to keep the better one???

3) If the Oilers do not use the cap space, then making the buyout is foolish because it hurts us for four years now - four years of paying a player not to play here. The Oilers have made a lot of contract mistakes, but they are paying so much in buyouts now that they could add a pretty solid player with what they're paying people not to be here. I was curious how this stacked up:

Dead Space (retained salary, buyouts, plus recapture)
Boston - 3.066MM
Buffalo - 0.792MM
Detroit - 1.883MM
Florida - 2.890MM (incl. $1.094 for Luongo)
Montreal - 1.367MM
Ottawa - 0.729MM
Tampa - 1.833MM
Toronto - 1.200MM (for Phil Kessel!)
Carolina - 8.583MM (of which $6.25MM is Patrick Marleau - they received a 1st rd pick for this cap space)
Columbus - 2.708MM
New Jersey - 1.917MM
NY Islanders - 0
NY Rangers - 3.911MM
Philadelphia - 3.071MM
Pittsburgh - 0
Washington - 0
Chicago - 0
Colorado - 4.25MM (incl $1.5MM for Brooks Orpik buyout that they got Grubauer in order to facilitate)
Dallas - 0.700MM
Minnesota - $1.217MM
Nashville - 0
St. Louis - 0
Winnipeg - 0
Anaheim - 2.625MM
Arizona - 1.944MM
Calgary - 1.500MM
Edmonton - 4.133
Los Angeles - 3.757MM (incl. $1.570MM for recapture/termination penalties on Mike Richards)
San Jose - 1.417MM
Vancouver - 4.066MM (incl. $3.033MM recapture on Luongo)
Vegas - 0.500MM

So there's only two teams in the entire league who have more dead cap space than the Oilers, and both of those teams took that on strategically to get an asset...the Oilers just bought their way out of their own mistakes.

Worth noting, that does not include buried contracts, and the Oilers will have more dead space there with Brandon Manning certain to be in the minors again this year.

I know that the Oilers just blame this on their predecessors - Chiarelli could point to MacTavish on Pouliot and Holland will now point to Chiarelli on Sekera, but the fact is, that's 5% of the total cap that the Oilers are burning on guys who don't play here any more. If it were a player on the team, Burnt Capspace (including the Manning dollars) would be making more than anyone but McDavid, Draisaitl, Nugent-Hopkins, and Lucic. If you exclude the Manning amount, then only Klefbom, Larsson and Koskinen (?!) would be on the list of players who make more.

There's all kinds of talk about how tax rates make certain teams less competitive, but I think burning millions on players who are gone is a pretty big anchor too.

Worth noting that most of the best teams in the league have very low dollars spent on buyouts and retained cap.



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 Re: Sekera bought out... [message #739787 is a reply to message #739784 ]
Tue, 02 July 2019 11:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Tue, 02 July 2019 10:58

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 02 July 2019 09:26

Adam wrote on Tue, 02 July 2019 08:48

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 02 July 2019 08:02

Magnum wrote on Mon, 01 July 2019 18:35

Ragnarok73 wrote on Mon, 01 July 2019 16:59

So far, the Oil just seemed to have done a whole lot of absolutely nothing. Granted, what else could we expect with the @$@#hole that Chia left the team in cap-wise?


Wish we had a veteran defence man with a history of being elite, with some upside.

I do too except I don't want the Oilers having to pay that guy 5.5 mill for the next 2 seasons. I'd also like to know he will actually be ready to go for the start of the season vs potentially getting hurt for the 3rd year in a row and I would like to know I can count on him for good mins vs crossing my fingers.


If he costs you more than $3MM, you're paying the same as what you were paying Sekera, since we're on the hook for $2.5MM of cap space with Sekera this year.

There's not much left in the free agent market who's going to provide an update. Jake Gardiner...and that's about it. And I don't see Gardiner coming cheap or coming to Edmonton. He may have heard from his old teammate Justin Schultz about how Edmonton fans (most knowledgeable in the league icon_rolleyes) treat offensive defencemen - and even if he hadn't, he's undoubtedly heard that this team is a tire fire who can't get it together, even when gifted the best player on the planet.

So that leaves trades...but looking at Holland's record, he's not exactly good at making trades. He doesn't make many of them, and there's exceptionally few clear wins when he does make them, so we might be in tough here.

What I don't understand is the notion that Sekera can be anything more than a 3rd pairing guy at best. He played 24 games last year and looked OK playing very sheltered 3rd pairing mins. He didn't dominate, all he did was show that he can probably play in the NHL which was a HUGE thing considering given coming off 2 major leg injuries, they was a chance he was done in the NHL.

What I find hypocritical with this is the Oilers had a young dman in Jones last year play close to the games that Sekera did. Jones played 17 games. When he was in the 3rd pair, Jones looked really good, when he got elevated to top 4, he did fine OK for a few games but slowly got exposed for being not ready. Going into this season most fans and media guys agree Jones is probably ready for full time NHL duty in a 3rd pairing role. He also might have the upside to elevate at some point. But no one is expecting him to play in the top 4 like some people think Sekera could. What's the difference other than experience? Jones moves the puck as good or better, he has more offense than Sekera at this point in his career, he's WAY, WAY more mobile than Sekera ever was. I don't think Jones should play in the top 4 but if someone is going to tell me that Sekera could do it with the main reason being he can pass the puck, in my opinion, you should be saying the same thing about Jones who has WAY more tools in the tool box than Sekera has at this point in his career.

In my opinion, the goal of the team should be to get rid of the breaking down, aging, expensive vets like a Sekera and turning their spots over to younger players. They needed to create a roster spot for a guy like Jones who is more so what the NHL needs in dmen than Sekera was. Sekera in my opinion is a 3rd pairing dman who shouldn't be any higher than the 3rd pair so in my opinion, you replace Sekera with a Jones and it upgrades your defense. You do lose experience but other than that, Jones does all the things Sekera does play all the things he can't, all while doing it for 720K. So you replace Sekera AND you have almost 2.3 mill left over.


I'm really happy if Jones can replace Sekera's contribution to the roster.

However:

1) he hasn't actually shown that he can be an adequate replacement. I didn't think he was solid at all. I thought he looked like he had the tools, but he was also in over his head from Game 1. He finished -9 in 17 games, despite the fact that he was mostly played against weaker opposition.

I did think he was overplayed by Hitchcock, who seemed fine with throwing him in the deep end. He played 7 games with well over 20 minutes, which is a lot for a young d-man.

Part of that was lack of options due to injury, but he kept playing through much of January, despite the fact we'd brought in two veteran defencemen who were supposed to fill the void left by all the injuries.

He did alright from a points perspective with 6 points in 17 games, but his game needed a lot of work at the NHL level.

2) Sekera is better than Kris Russell who we kept. If you're going to get rid of an over-priced third pairing defenceman, maybe it makes sense to keep the better one???

3) If the Oilers do not use the cap space, then making the buyout is foolish because it hurts us for four years now - four years of paying a player not to play here. The Oilers have made a lot of contract mistakes, but they are paying so much in buyouts now that they could add a pretty solid player with what they're paying people not to be here. I was curious how this stacked up:

Dead Space (retained salary, buyouts, plus recapture)
Boston - 3.066MM
Buffalo - 0.792MM
Detroit - 1.883MM
Florida - 2.890MM (incl. $1.094 for Luongo)
Montreal - 1.367MM
Ottawa - 0.729MM
Tampa - 1.833MM
Toronto - 1.200MM (for Phil Kessel!)
Carolina - 8.583MM (of which $6.25MM is Patrick Marleau - they received a 1st rd pick for this cap space)
Columbus - 2.708MM
New Jersey - 1.917MM
NY Islanders - 0
NY Rangers - 3.911MM
Philadelphia - 3.071MM
Pittsburgh - 0
Washington - 0
Chicago - 0
Colorado - 4.25MM (incl $1.5MM for Brooks Orpik buyout that they got Grubauer in order to facilitate)
Dallas - 0.700MM
Minnesota - $1.217MM
Nashville - 0
St. Louis - 0
Winnipeg - 0
Anaheim - 2.625MM
Arizona - 1.944MM
Calgary - 1.500MM
Edmonton - 4.133
Los Angeles - 3.757MM (incl. $1.570MM for recapture/termination penalties on Mike Richards)
San Jose - 1.417MM
Vancouver - 4.066MM (incl. $3.033MM recapture on Luongo)
Vegas - 0.500MM

So there's only two teams in the entire league who have more dead cap space than the Oilers, and both of those teams took that on strategically to get an asset...the Oilers just bought their way out of their own mistakes.

Worth noting, that does not include buried contracts, and the Oilers will have more dead space there with Brandon Manning certain to be in the minors again this year.

I know that the Oilers just blame this on their predecessors - Chiarelli could point to MacTavish on Pouliot and Holland will now point to Chiarelli on Sekera, but the fact is, that's 5% of the total cap that the Oilers are burning on guys who don't play here any more. If it were a player on the team, Burnt Capspace (including the Manning dollars) would be making more than anyone but McDavid, Draisaitl, Nugent-Hopkins, and Lucic. If you exclude the Manning amount, then only Klefbom, Larsson and Koskinen (?!) would be on the list of players who make more.

There's all kinds of talk about how tax rates make certain teams less competitive, but I think burning millions on players who are gone is a pretty big anchor too.

Worth noting that most of the best teams in the league have very low dollars spent on buyouts and retained cap.


First of all, Jones played a bunch of time in a top 4 role when he wasn't ready. I don't expect Jones to be in the top 4, I expect him to be a 3rd pairing guy this season. I am looking for him to be decent defensively, move the puck a little, be able to skate and maybe chip in 20 pts. So mirror what Benning does and Jones skates way better. That's all I was expecting from Sekera. So in my opinion, he can replace what Sekera does. The only thing that he lacks is Sekera's experience. Maybe you disagree but experience isn't worth 4.78 mill which is the difference in contracts between the 720 Jones is making and the 5.5 mill that Sekera was.
Secondly, the pro that I have heard over and over again is the Oilers need puck movers and Sekera is one of their better one. I don't disagree with statement, he can pass the puck. What else? He makes 5.5mill, being able to pass the puck doesn't justify making that much money. It appears that in very sheltered mins, he can play in your 3rd and do well. So can Benning. Benning makes 1.9 mill, Sekera makes 5.5 mill. It doesn't add up.
Third. I think you can trade Russell and someone would take him even if you had to retain something. No one is taking Sekera, not even if the Oilers retained 50%. We saw what he is worth. He's worth 1.5 mill on a 1 yr. If the tables where turned and the Oilers traded for Sekera at 5.5 mill for 2 years after the injuries he had had, with 60 games in 2 years, we'd be freaking out. So why would another team want him?

The Oilers need new blood on the defense, we have ALL been saying that for years. For that to happen, you have to create opportunity and roster spots. At some point something had to give.



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 Re: Sekera bought out... [message #739790 is a reply to message #739787 ]
Tue, 02 July 2019 11:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 02 July 2019 11:27


First of all, Jones played a bunch of time in a top 4 role when he wasn't ready. I don't expect Jones to be in the top 4, I expect him to be a 3rd pairing guy this season. I am looking for him to be decent defensively, move the puck a little, be able to skate and maybe chip in 20 pts. So mirror what Benning does and Jones skates way better. That's all I was expecting from Sekera. So in my opinion, he can replace what Sekera does. The only thing that he lacks is Sekera's experience. Maybe you disagree but experience isn't worth 4.78 mill which is the difference in contracts between the 720 Jones is making and the 5.5 mill that Sekera was.
Secondly, the pro that I have heard over and over again is the Oilers need puck movers and Sekera is one of their better one. I don't disagree with statement, he can pass the puck. What else? He makes 5.5mill, being able to pass the puck doesn't justify making that much money. It appears that in very sheltered mins, he can play in your 3rd and do well. So can Benning. Benning makes 1.9 mill, Sekera makes 5.5 mill. It doesn't add up.
Third. I think you can trade Russell and someone would take him even if you had to retain something. No one is taking Sekera, not even if the Oilers retained 50%. We saw what he is worth. He's worth 1.5 mill on a 1 yr. If the tables where turned and the Oilers traded for Sekera at 5.5 mill for 2 years after the injuries he had had, with 60 games in 2 years, we'd be freaking out. So why would another team want him?

The Oilers need new blood on the defense, we have ALL been saying that for years. For that to happen, you have to create opportunity and roster spots. At some point something had to give.


If you can trade Russell, you do it rather than buyout Sekera. It would have saved you more money against the cap, you would have got rid of the worse player, and you don't have an extra two years of cap consequences to think about. If that is true and the Oilers could have moved Russell, then it would be a pretty bad mistake by the Oilers.

I don't believe there was a market for Sekera, but I don't think you can ignore the fact he's still eating up a very significant amount of cap space. Your math of "$5.5MM - $720K = $4.78MM" forgets the fact that Sekera still counts for $2.5MM this year.

The Oilers better find a use for that cap space other than simply saving money for during the season, because otherwise we're (once again) a worse team with nothing to show for it other than negative cap consequences for ages.



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 Re: Sekera bought out... [message #739791 is a reply to message #739790 ]
Tue, 02 July 2019 11:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Adam wrote on Tue, 02 July 2019 11:51

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 02 July 2019 11:27


First of all, Jones played a bunch of time in a top 4 role when he wasn't ready. I don't expect Jones to be in the top 4, I expect him to be a 3rd pairing guy this season. I am looking for him to be decent defensively, move the puck a little, be able to skate and maybe chip in 20 pts. So mirror what Benning does and Jones skates way better. That's all I was expecting from Sekera. So in my opinion, he can replace what Sekera does. The only thing that he lacks is Sekera's experience. Maybe you disagree but experience isn't worth 4.78 mill which is the difference in contracts between the 720 Jones is making and the 5.5 mill that Sekera was.
Secondly, the pro that I have heard over and over again is the Oilers need puck movers and Sekera is one of their better one. I don't disagree with statement, he can pass the puck. What else? He makes 5.5mill, being able to pass the puck doesn't justify making that much money. It appears that in very sheltered mins, he can play in your 3rd and do well. So can Benning. Benning makes 1.9 mill, Sekera makes 5.5 mill. It doesn't add up.
Third. I think you can trade Russell and someone would take him even if you had to retain something. No one is taking Sekera, not even if the Oilers retained 50%. We saw what he is worth. He's worth 1.5 mill on a 1 yr. If the tables where turned and the Oilers traded for Sekera at 5.5 mill for 2 years after the injuries he had had, with 60 games in 2 years, we'd be freaking out. So why would another team want him?

The Oilers need new blood on the defense, we have ALL been saying that for years. For that to happen, you have to create opportunity and roster spots. At some point something had to give.


If you can trade Russell, you do it rather than buyout Sekera. It would have saved you more money against the cap, you would have got rid of the worse player, and you don't have an extra two years of cap consequences to think about. If that is true and the Oilers could have moved Russell, then it would be a pretty bad mistake by the Oilers.

I don't believe there was a market for Sekera, but I don't think you can ignore the fact he's still eating up a very significant amount of cap space. Your math of "$5.5MM - $720K = $4.78MM" forgets the fact that Sekera still counts for $2.5MM this year.

The Oilers better find a use for that cap space other than simply saving money for during the season, because otherwise we're (once again) a worse team with nothing to show for it other than negative cap consequences for ages.


Sucks we only get a 10 team trade list for Russell. I think he wants to live in western Canada, so it's probably Calgary, Vancouver, and a bunch of the top teams with no cap space that would want nothing to do with him anyways.

Maybe next year!



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-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


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 Re: Sekera bought out... [message #739792 is a reply to message #739790 ]
Tue, 02 July 2019 11:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Tue, 02 July 2019 11:51

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 02 July 2019 11:27


First of all, Jones played a bunch of time in a top 4 role when he wasn't ready. I don't expect Jones to be in the top 4, I expect him to be a 3rd pairing guy this season. I am looking for him to be decent defensively, move the puck a little, be able to skate and maybe chip in 20 pts. So mirror what Benning does and Jones skates way better. That's all I was expecting from Sekera. So in my opinion, he can replace what Sekera does. The only thing that he lacks is Sekera's experience. Maybe you disagree but experience isn't worth 4.78 mill which is the difference in contracts between the 720 Jones is making and the 5.5 mill that Sekera was.
Secondly, the pro that I have heard over and over again is the Oilers need puck movers and Sekera is one of their better one. I don't disagree with statement, he can pass the puck. What else? He makes 5.5mill, being able to pass the puck doesn't justify making that much money. It appears that in very sheltered mins, he can play in your 3rd and do well. So can Benning. Benning makes 1.9 mill, Sekera makes 5.5 mill. It doesn't add up.
Third. I think you can trade Russell and someone would take him even if you had to retain something. No one is taking Sekera, not even if the Oilers retained 50%. We saw what he is worth. He's worth 1.5 mill on a 1 yr. If the tables where turned and the Oilers traded for Sekera at 5.5 mill for 2 years after the injuries he had had, with 60 games in 2 years, we'd be freaking out. So why would another team want him?

The Oilers need new blood on the defense, we have ALL been saying that for years. For that to happen, you have to create opportunity and roster spots. At some point something had to give.


If you can trade Russell, you do it rather than buyout Sekera. It would have saved you more money against the cap, you would have got rid of the worse player, and you don't have an extra two years of cap consequences to think about. If that is true and the Oilers could have moved Russell, then it would be a pretty bad mistake by the Oilers.

I don't believe there was a market for Sekera, but I don't think you can ignore the fact he's still eating up a very significant amount of cap space. Your math of "$5.5MM - $720K = $4.78MM" forgets the fact that Sekera still counts for $2.5MM this year.

The Oilers better find a use for that cap space other than simply saving money for during the season, because otherwise we're (once again) a worse team with nothing to show for it other than negative cap consequences for ages.

I would personally get rid of both.

I guess we will disagree. I don't see value in keeping Sekera. The high water mark for him in my opinion is being a decent 3rd pairing guy that gives you 20 pts. IF Sekera was a good skater, then I wouldn't be as concerned. He was never a good skater and no one is going to tell he that after blowing out your ACL AND your Achiles in back to back seasons that his mobility hasn't gotten worse. Being able to pass the puck is not enough to justify his 5.5mill for 2 more season. It royally sucks you couldn't trade him but injures eliminated that chance of ever happening. If the Oilers are ever going to get better, they have to change the make up of their defense in my opinion. Icing the same 6 guys this season, them complaining they aren't getting better isn't the answer in my opinion.



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 Re: Sekera bought out... [message #739802 is a reply to message #739768 ]
Tue, 02 July 2019 13:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 02 July 2019 08:26

Adam wrote on Tue, 02 July 2019 08:48

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 02 July 2019 08:02

Magnum wrote on Mon, 01 July 2019 18:35

Ragnarok73 wrote on Mon, 01 July 2019 16:59

So far, the Oil just seemed to have done a whole lot of absolutely nothing. Granted, what else could we expect with the @$@#hole that Chia left the team in cap-wise?


Wish we had a veteran defence man with a history of being elite, with some upside.

I do too except I don't want the Oilers having to pay that guy 5.5 mill for the next 2 seasons. I'd also like to know he will actually be ready to go for the start of the season vs potentially getting hurt for the 3rd year in a row and I would like to know I can count on him for good mins vs crossing my fingers.


If he costs you more than $3MM, you're paying the same as what you were paying Sekera, since we're on the hook for $2.5MM of cap space with Sekera this year.

There's not much left in the free agent market who's going to provide an update. Jake Gardiner...and that's about it. And I don't see Gardiner coming cheap or coming to Edmonton. He may have heard from his old teammate Justin Schultz about how Edmonton fans (most knowledgeable in the league icon_rolleyes) treat offensive defencemen - and even if he hadn't, he's undoubtedly heard that this team is a tire fire who can't get it together, even when gifted the best player on the planet.

So that leaves trades...but looking at Holland's record, he's not exactly good at making trades. He doesn't make many of them, and there's exceptionally few clear wins when he does make them, so we might be in tough here.

What I don't understand is the notion that Sekera can be anything more than a 3rd pairing guy at best. He played 24 games last year and looked OK playing very sheltered 3rd pairing mins. He didn't dominate, all he did was show that he can probably play in the NHL which was a HUGE thing considering given coming off 2 major leg injuries, they was a chance he was done in the NHL.

What I find hypocritical with this is the Oilers had a young dman in Jones last year play close to the games that Sekera did. Jones played 17 games. When he was in the 3rd pair, Jones looked really good, when he got elevated to top 4, he did fine OK for a few games but slowly got exposed for being not ready. Going into this season most fans and media guys agree Jones is probably ready for full time NHL duty in a 3rd pairing role. He also might have the upside to elevate at some point. But no one is expecting him to play in the top 4 like some people think Sekera could. What's the difference other than experience? Jones moves the puck as good or better, he has more offense than Sekera at this point in his career, he's WAY, WAY more mobile than Sekera ever was. I don't think Jones should play in the top 4 but if someone is going to tell me that Sekera could do it with the main reason being he can pass the puck, in my opinion, you should be saying the same thing about Jones who has WAY more tools in the tool box than Sekera has at this point in his career.

In my opinion, the goal of the team should be to get rid of the breaking down, aging, expensive vets like a Sekera and turning their spots over to younger players. They needed to create a roster spot for a guy like Jones who is more so what the NHL needs in dmen than Sekera was. Sekera in my opinion is a 3rd pairing dman who shouldn't be any higher than the 3rd pair so in my opinion, you replace Sekera with a Jones and it upgrades your defense. You do lose experience but other than that, Jones does all the things Sekera does play all the things he can't, all while doing it for 720K. So you replace Sekera AND you have almost 2.3 mill left over.


I'm not sure that there's a more consistent theme amongst the Oilers over the past 10+ years than, "creating a roster spot for a guy", and having it blow up in their face. Jones has 17 games of NHL experience (and just over 100 games of AHL experience). There's just no need to move Sekera out to make sure that Jones gets a full time job in the NHL. Injuries happen all the time. Last year the Oilers had 10 defencemen play more than 10 games. There 100% would have been ample opportunity for Jones to slot into the NHL roster. Now they're guaranteeing that he'll see full-time action playing with Matt Benning most likely. I actually don't mind Benning, but slotting him with a rookie sounds like it could be a disaster of a 3rd pair.

And now when injuries inevitably do hit, they're going to have to call up another rookie with basically zero NHL experience to fill in (assuming they've basically given up on Manning, which we hope is the case).

h/t to @RomulusNotNuma for laying this out better than I can:

https://twitter.com/RomulusNotNuma/status/114606334026899456 4?s=20



Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 pace: 248 GF / 246 GA (+2) after 33 games

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 Re: Sekera bought out... [message #739803 is a reply to message #739802 ]
Tue, 02 July 2019 13:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Goose wrote on Tue, 02 July 2019 13:24

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 02 July 2019 08:26

Adam wrote on Tue, 02 July 2019 08:48

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 02 July 2019 08:02

Magnum wrote on Mon, 01 July 2019 18:35

Ragnarok73 wrote on Mon, 01 July 2019 16:59

So far, the Oil just seemed to have done a whole lot of absolutely nothing. Granted, what else could we expect with the @$@#hole that Chia left the team in cap-wise?


Wish we had a veteran defence man with a history of being elite, with some upside.

I do too except I don't want the Oilers having to pay that guy 5.5 mill for the next 2 seasons. I'd also like to know he will actually be ready to go for the start of the season vs potentially getting hurt for the 3rd year in a row and I would like to know I can count on him for good mins vs crossing my fingers.


If he costs you more than $3MM, you're paying the same as what you were paying Sekera, since we're on the hook for $2.5MM of cap space with Sekera this year.

There's not much left in the free agent market who's going to provide an update. Jake Gardiner...and that's about it. And I don't see Gardiner coming cheap or coming to Edmonton. He may have heard from his old teammate Justin Schultz about how Edmonton fans (most knowledgeable in the league icon_rolleyes) treat offensive defencemen - and even if he hadn't, he's undoubtedly heard that this team is a tire fire who can't get it together, even when gifted the best player on the planet.

So that leaves trades...but looking at Holland's record, he's not exactly good at making trades. He doesn't make many of them, and there's exceptionally few clear wins when he does make them, so we might be in tough here.

What I don't understand is the notion that Sekera can be anything more than a 3rd pairing guy at best. He played 24 games last year and looked OK playing very sheltered 3rd pairing mins. He didn't dominate, all he did was show that he can probably play in the NHL which was a HUGE thing considering given coming off 2 major leg injuries, they was a chance he was done in the NHL.

What I find hypocritical with this is the Oilers had a young dman in Jones last year play close to the games that Sekera did. Jones played 17 games. When he was in the 3rd pair, Jones looked really good, when he got elevated to top 4, he did fine OK for a few games but slowly got exposed for being not ready. Going into this season most fans and media guys agree Jones is probably ready for full time NHL duty in a 3rd pairing role. He also might have the upside to elevate at some point. But no one is expecting him to play in the top 4 like some people think Sekera could. What's the difference other than experience? Jones moves the puck as good or better, he has more offense than Sekera at this point in his career, he's WAY, WAY more mobile than Sekera ever was. I don't think Jones should play in the top 4 but if someone is going to tell me that Sekera could do it with the main reason being he can pass the puck, in my opinion, you should be saying the same thing about Jones who has WAY more tools in the tool box than Sekera has at this point in his career.

In my opinion, the goal of the team should be to get rid of the breaking down, aging, expensive vets like a Sekera and turning their spots over to younger players. They needed to create a roster spot for a guy like Jones who is more so what the NHL needs in dmen than Sekera was. Sekera in my opinion is a 3rd pairing dman who shouldn't be any higher than the 3rd pair so in my opinion, you replace Sekera with a Jones and it upgrades your defense. You do lose experience but other than that, Jones does all the things Sekera does play all the things he can't, all while doing it for 720K. So you replace Sekera AND you have almost 2.3 mill left over.


I'm not sure that there's a more consistent theme amongst the Oilers over the past 10+ years than, "creating a roster spot for a guy", and having it blow up in their face. Jones has 17 games of NHL experience (and just over 100 games of AHL experience). There's just no need to move Sekera out to make sure that Jones gets a full time job in the NHL. Injuries happen all the time. Last year the Oilers had 10 defencemen play more than 10 games. There 100% would have been ample opportunity for Jones to slot into the NHL roster. Now they're guaranteeing that he'll see full-time action playing with Matt Benning most likely. I actually don't mind Benning, but slotting him with a rookie sounds like it could be a disaster of a 3rd pair.

And now when injuries inevitably do hit, they're going to have to call up another rookie with basically zero NHL experience to fill in (assuming they've basically given up on Manning, which we hope is the case).

h/t to @RomulusNotNuma for laying this out better than I can:

https://twitter.com/RomulusNotNuma/status/114606334026899456 4?s=20

So what is the answer then? Keep the same guys who everyone identified as not being good enough so fans can sit back and complain about the roster?

If people would look at things objectively for a min. Sekera was a going to be 34 yr old, coming off 2 major leg injuries that some players never fully come back from, making 5.5 mill who's not a very good skater. He's played 60 games in 2 years. Last season in 24 games in very sheltered mins playing against 3th and 4th liners, he didn't get crushed, he did alright. Considering there was concerns he wouldn't play in the NHL again, that's great. If the Oilers went into this season saying they were counting on Sekera being a top 4 dman, everyone of you guys would lose your minds saying how stupid they were and then paste some chart about how sheltered he was to back up your point about how dumb the Oilers are.

So the Oilers make the call and move on deciding that Sekera is nothing more than a ridiculously expensive 5-6 dman with mobility issues. The market shares that opinion because all he could get a 1 yr deal at 1.5 mill which is what vet #6 dmen get. But the same people who would have crucified the Oilers if they bet on Sekera are crucifying them for not.

I hope it works out for him but it wouldn't shock if Sekera doesn't play a ton this season due to his lack of mobility and then ends up in Europe after this coming season.

[Updated on: Tue, 02 July 2019 13:40]


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 Re: Sekera bought out... [message #739804 is a reply to message #739803 ]
Tue, 02 July 2019 13:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Magnum is currently online Magnum
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Keep the good, get rid of the bad. Sekera was good, so let’s not get rid of him.


2015/2016 - This Kool-Aid tastes like McDavid flavoured Drain-O.
2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.
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2018/2019 - Another round of Drain-O, good sir!

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 Re: Sekera bought out... [message #739805 is a reply to message #739803 ]
Tue, 02 July 2019 13:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 02 July 2019 12:38


So what is the answer then? Keep the same guys who everyone identified as not being good enough so fans can sit back and complain about the roster?

If people would look at things objectively for a min. Sekera was a going to be 34 yr old, coming off 2 major leg injuries that some players never fully come back from, making 5.5 mill who's not a very good skater. He's played 60 games in 2 years. Last season in 24 games in very sheltered mins playing against 3th and 4th liners, he didn't get crushed, he did alright. Considering there was concerns he wouldn't play in the NHL again, that's great. If the Oilers went into this season saying they were counting on Sekera being a top 4 dman, everyone of you guys would lose your minds saying how stupid they were and then paste some chart about how sheltered he was to back up your point about how dumb the Oilers are.

So the Oilers make the call and move on deciding that Sekera is nothing more than a ridiculously expensive 5-6 dman with mobility issues. The market shares that opinion because all he could get a 1 yr deal at 1.5 mill which is what vet #6 dmen get. But the same people who would have crucified the Oilers if they bet on Sekera are crucifying them for not.


I mean, the Oilers are dumb, I don't think that's even a question at this point.

I fully expect that the Oilers aren't going to be good this year, so I don't think it really matters whether they play Sekera or Jones. I can't speak for anyone else, but I would have had no issue with them keeping Sekera.

I've said it before, but I think the moves they should have made to the defence would have been to move Russell (because he's not that good and too expensive), and trade Nurse (because I think he's one of the few guys on this team whose perceived value is greater than his actual value - meaning I think the Oilers could win a Nurse trade).

My issue is the logic in creating dead cap space in year's 3 and 4 of this deal in order to "make room" for a guy that isn't going to move the needle on the Oiler's success this year, and potentially gets thrown in over his head with limited cover (because that's worked out really well every other time this team has done it).



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 Re: Sekera bought out... [message #739806 is a reply to message #739805 ]
Tue, 02 July 2019 14:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Goose wrote on Tue, 02 July 2019 13:46

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 02 July 2019 12:38


So what is the answer then? Keep the same guys who everyone identified as not being good enough so fans can sit back and complain about the roster?

If people would look at things objectively for a min. Sekera was a going to be 34 yr old, coming off 2 major leg injuries that some players never fully come back from, making 5.5 mill who's not a very good skater. He's played 60 games in 2 years. Last season in 24 games in very sheltered mins playing against 3th and 4th liners, he didn't get crushed, he did alright. Considering there was concerns he wouldn't play in the NHL again, that's great. If the Oilers went into this season saying they were counting on Sekera being a top 4 dman, everyone of you guys would lose your minds saying how stupid they were and then paste some chart about how sheltered he was to back up your point about how dumb the Oilers are.

So the Oilers make the call and move on deciding that Sekera is nothing more than a ridiculously expensive 5-6 dman with mobility issues. The market shares that opinion because all he could get a 1 yr deal at 1.5 mill which is what vet #6 dmen get. But the same people who would have crucified the Oilers if they bet on Sekera are crucifying them for not.


I mean, the Oilers are dumb, I don't think that's even a question at this point.

I fully expect that the Oilers aren't going to be good this year, so I don't think it really matters whether they play Sekera or Jones. I can't speak for anyone else, but I would have had no issue with them keeping Sekera.

I've said it before, but I think the moves they should have made to the defence would have been to move Russell (because he's not that good and too expensive), and trade Nurse (because I think he's one of the few guys on this team whose perceived value is greater than his actual value - meaning I think the Oilers could win a Nurse trade).

My issue is the logic in creating dead cap space in year's 3 and 4 of this deal in order to "make room" for a guy that isn't going to move the needle on the Oiler's success this year, and potentially gets thrown in over his head with limited cover (because that's worked out really well every other time this team has done it).

One thing I agree with is I don't expect the Oilers to be good this year. But because of that, I would like to see the ice time that a 5.5 mill dman would command go to a Jones. I don't need to see Sekera who's got mobility issues who's not capable of being more than a #6, lumber around the ice getting burnt wide. His only saving grace being he can make a pass once in a while. If someone thinks otherwise, they are fooling themselves. So next season when the Oilers are ready to be good, a guy like Jones has hopefully knocked off all the big peaks and valleys and is a steady, contributing dman.

[Updated on: Tue, 02 July 2019 14:21]


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 Re: Sekera bought out... [message #739812 is a reply to message #739806 ]
Tue, 02 July 2019 15:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 02 July 2019 14:16

Goose wrote on Tue, 02 July 2019 13:46

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 02 July 2019 12:38


So what is the answer then? Keep the same guys who everyone identified as not being good enough so fans can sit back and complain about the roster?

If people would look at things objectively for a min. Sekera was a going to be 34 yr old, coming off 2 major leg injuries that some players never fully come back from, making 5.5 mill who's not a very good skater. He's played 60 games in 2 years. Last season in 24 games in very sheltered mins playing against 3th and 4th liners, he didn't get crushed, he did alright. Considering there was concerns he wouldn't play in the NHL again, that's great. If the Oilers went into this season saying they were counting on Sekera being a top 4 dman, everyone of you guys would lose your minds saying how stupid they were and then paste some chart about how sheltered he was to back up your point about how dumb the Oilers are.

So the Oilers make the call and move on deciding that Sekera is nothing more than a ridiculously expensive 5-6 dman with mobility issues. The market shares that opinion because all he could get a 1 yr deal at 1.5 mill which is what vet #6 dmen get. But the same people who would have crucified the Oilers if they bet on Sekera are crucifying them for not.


I mean, the Oilers are dumb, I don't think that's even a question at this point.

I fully expect that the Oilers aren't going to be good this year, so I don't think it really matters whether they play Sekera or Jones. I can't speak for anyone else, but I would have had no issue with them keeping Sekera.

I've said it before, but I think the moves they should have made to the defence would have been to move Russell (because he's not that good and too expensive), and trade Nurse (because I think he's one of the few guys on this team whose perceived value is greater than his actual value - meaning I think the Oilers could win a Nurse trade).

My issue is the logic in creating dead cap space in year's 3 and 4 of this deal in order to "make room" for a guy that isn't going to move the needle on the Oiler's success this year, and potentially gets thrown in over his head with limited cover (because that's worked out really well every other time this team has done it).

One thing I agree with is I don't expect the Oilers to be good this year. But because of that, I would like to see the ice time that a 5.5 mill dman would command go to a Jones. I don't need to see Sekera who's got mobility issues who's not capable of being more than a #6, lumber around the ice getting burnt wide. His only saving grace being he can make a pass once in a while. If someone thinks otherwise, they are fooling themselves. So next season when the Oilers are ready to be good, a guy like Jones has hopefully knocked off all the big peaks and valleys and is a steady, contributing dman.


As Goose points out though, it's not simply this year that's impacted. If the decision was simply - we're going to suck this year so we may as well give more playing time to a rookie as opposed to an aging veteran (who actually looked decent at the end of the year when he played and looked better yet in the World's when he was further away from the rust) - well, then maybe that's not so bad if you can flush Sekera and play Jones in his spot - saving the dollars.

But buying out Sekera impacts negatively on 2021-22 and 2022-23 seasons. Let's say this season DOES help Jones develop. His entry level deal expires with him as a full-time NHL defenceman, so he gets a bigger payday in contract #2, which is probably a bridge for a season or two. When that expires the Oilers are STILL paying for Sekera with cap space that could have meant the difference between re-signing the player or not.

It also impacts this year pretty significantly, because the Oilers have well over $5MM of dead cap space (including burying Manning). Even next year that have almost $4MM dead cap already because of the similarly stupid Benoit Pouliot buyout and this buyout of Sekera. Good teams find better ways of handling their problems because as we've seen this summer, cap space is worth its weight in gold (actually more than it's weight, since it's technically weightless, but still, you know what I mean).



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 Re: Sekera bought out... [message #739815 is a reply to message #739812 ]
Tue, 02 July 2019 16:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Tue, 02 July 2019 15:46

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 02 July 2019 14:16

Goose wrote on Tue, 02 July 2019 13:46

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 02 July 2019 12:38


So what is the answer then? Keep the same guys who everyone identified as not being good enough so fans can sit back and complain about the roster?

If people would look at things objectively for a min. Sekera was a going to be 34 yr old, coming off 2 major leg injuries that some players never fully come back from, making 5.5 mill who's not a very good skater. He's played 60 games in 2 years. Last season in 24 games in very sheltered mins playing against 3th and 4th liners, he didn't get crushed, he did alright. Considering there was concerns he wouldn't play in the NHL again, that's great. If the Oilers went into this season saying they were counting on Sekera being a top 4 dman, everyone of you guys would lose your minds saying how stupid they were and then paste some chart about how sheltered he was to back up your point about how dumb the Oilers are.

So the Oilers make the call and move on deciding that Sekera is nothing more than a ridiculously expensive 5-6 dman with mobility issues. The market shares that opinion because all he could get a 1 yr deal at 1.5 mill which is what vet #6 dmen get. But the same people who would have crucified the Oilers if they bet on Sekera are crucifying them for not.


I mean, the Oilers are dumb, I don't think that's even a question at this point.

I fully expect that the Oilers aren't going to be good this year, so I don't think it really matters whether they play Sekera or Jones. I can't speak for anyone else, but I would have had no issue with them keeping Sekera.

I've said it before, but I think the moves they should have made to the defence would have been to move Russell (because he's not that good and too expensive), and trade Nurse (because I think he's one of the few guys on this team whose perceived value is greater than his actual value - meaning I think the Oilers could win a Nurse trade).

My issue is the logic in creating dead cap space in year's 3 and 4 of this deal in order to "make room" for a guy that isn't going to move the needle on the Oiler's success this year, and potentially gets thrown in over his head with limited cover (because that's worked out really well every other time this team has done it).

One thing I agree with is I don't expect the Oilers to be good this year. But because of that, I would like to see the ice time that a 5.5 mill dman would command go to a Jones. I don't need to see Sekera who's got mobility issues who's not capable of being more than a #6, lumber around the ice getting burnt wide. His only saving grace being he can make a pass once in a while. If someone thinks otherwise, they are fooling themselves. So next season when the Oilers are ready to be good, a guy like Jones has hopefully knocked off all the big peaks and valleys and is a steady, contributing dman.


As Goose points out though, it's not simply this year that's impacted. If the decision was simply - we're going to suck this year so we may as well give more playing time to a rookie as opposed to an aging veteran (who actually looked decent at the end of the year when he played and looked better yet in the World's when he was further away from the rust) - well, then maybe that's not so bad if you can flush Sekera and play Jones in his spot - saving the dollars.

But buying out Sekera impacts negatively on 2021-22 and 2022-23 seasons. Let's say this season DOES help Jones develop. His entry level deal expires with him as a full-time NHL defenceman, so he gets a bigger payday in contract #2, which is probably a bridge for a season or two. When that expires the Oilers are STILL paying for Sekera with cap space that could have meant the difference between re-signing the player or not.

It also impacts this year pretty significantly, because the Oilers have well over $5MM of dead cap space (including burying Manning). Even next year that have almost $4MM dead cap already because of the similarly stupid Benoit Pouliot buyout and this buyout of Sekera. Good teams find better ways of handling their problems because as we've seen this summer, cap space is worth its weight in gold (actually more than it's weight, since it's technically weightless, but still, you know what I mean).

When Holland took the job he was left with:
- A severe lack of forward depth. Most importantly, he's missing at least 1 top 6 winger and a 3rd line center. IMO, the Oilers need to address that to be better.
- His goalie is a mystery. I don't think Koskinen is a pile of crap but I also don't know if he is a legit good starter. So they needed a good back up capable of playing 30 games. You can't get those guys for under 1 mill.

He also inherited thanks to Chia:
- Lucic at 6 mill. According to his agent, Lucic has it in his mind he's coming back and is determined to be better. Great. What does better mean? He had 6 goals last year. Even if he had 12 which would be awesome, he's still making at least twice what he should.
- Koskinen at 4.5 mill. Supposedly he had the Oilers goalie coach over to Finland to work with him. So hopefully he can improve. Stauffer let it be known that part of Koskinen's job last season was to babysit JP. The fact that he had to babysit a grown ass man in JP is pathetic but based on how JP has not progressed and his recent actions, it's clear to me it had to happen. A guy trying to figure out the NHL shouldn't have to worry about if an adult is OK but such is life. JP will be gone so that's one less thing to worry about. But regardless, he's probably making at least 1 mill too much.
- Another year of Manning. A guy that is not an NHLer.
- He traded an OK 3rd line center for a non NHLer in Spooner who got flipped for Gagner who is an NHLer but making probably 1.5+ mill too much.
- A dead end contract in Sekera. Sekera WAS a good dman but that was 2 years ago and 2 major injuries ago. He's a 3rd pairing dman now who might not be in the NHL next year who was making 5.5 mill. But he can pass the puck so in here, that justifies keeping him.
- Russell is a decent, 4-5 dman who's making probably 0.5 - 1 mill too much.

- Not to mention 1.6m mill in buyouts.

So all of that is against him.

Just to address a good back up, a 3rd line center and a top 6 winger, is more money than he was left with. Not to mention, he needed to add some depth forwards. So he needed cap space.

So we will disagree on this. I hate dead cap space so buying out Sekera was not my first choice. But as the market showed, he was WORTHLESS on the trade market. No one was giving you anything for him. They tried. Apparently according to reports, they were willing to eat 50% and still no one would bite. Why. because he's not worth 2.75 mill.



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 Re: Sekera bought out... [message #739817 is a reply to message #739815 ]
Tue, 02 July 2019 16:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Magnum is currently online Magnum
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Don’t buy the “Holland” narrative. Do not.

The Oilers’ spin doctors are again putting another manager on the front lines to bare the brunt/all of the criticism. I was done excusing or blaming individual GMs before Chia got here, and there is no need to do it now.

Who cares when Holland got here. It’s entrenched management that is ruining this team and entrenched management who we should critique, not the fall guy of the week.



2015/2016 - This Kool-Aid tastes like McDavid flavoured Drain-O.
2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.
2017/2018 - I'm drinking this Kool-Aid, in hopes that it's Drain-O.
2018/2019 - Another round of Drain-O, good sir!

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 Re: Sekera bought out... [message #739819 is a reply to message #739817 ]
Tue, 02 July 2019 17:37 Go to previous message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Magnum wrote on Tue, 02 July 2019 16:27

Don’t buy the “Holland” narrative. Do not.

The Oilers’ spin doctors are again putting another manager on the front lines to bare the brunt/all of the criticism. I was done excusing or blaming individual GMs before Chia got here, and there is no need to do it now.

Who cares when Holland got here. It’s entrenched management that is ruining this team and entrenched management who we should critique, not the fall guy of the week.


You don't think Nicholson, Kretzky and Lowe deserve a free pass for the Chiarelli era? But what could they do? It was like he held the franchise hostage and made all these bad moves in succession for four years and they just helplessly watched from this sidelines!

Also - same thing with the MacTavish era (although no Nicholson or Gretzkys back then). And the Tambellini era for that matter! Dude forced Lowe to sit through not making any blockbuster trades and firing the coach every year!

The Lowe era? Well, you can't blame Kevin Lowe for that! We were a small market team that had one miracle season! He was practically a genius other than all the failures!

And haven't you heard? This GM has AUTONOMY!!! It's all his fault too. No word on whether the fact they never stressed how much autonomy Chiarelli had was an indication that he might not have had it...



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 Re: Sekera bought out... [message #739816 is a reply to message #739812 ]
Tue, 02 July 2019 16:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dragon_Matt  is currently offline Dragon_Matt
Messages: 89
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton

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The only way buying out Sekera makes any sense is if there is already plans lined up to eat that cap space.
If there isn't already a singing or trade in the works, you're far better off keeping Sekera to start the season. Give him sheltered minutes to make sure he's healthy and hopefuly producing, then sell him to another team when one of their guys gets hurt.

So far, are we full in # of contracts? no
Did the buyout make way for some massive UFA signing? no

did the buyout give Sekera to the stars so he can score 5 goals vs the oilers this year? likely



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 Re: Sekera bought out... [message #739770 is a reply to message #739765 ]
Tue, 02 July 2019 10:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rocksteady  is currently offline Rocksteady
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Adam wrote on Tue, 02 July 2019 08:48

So that leaves trades...but looking at Holland's record, he's not exactly good at making trades. He doesn't make many of them, and there's exceptionally few clear wins when he does make them, so we might be in tough here.


You hit the nail on the head Adam. Holland is a better developer than he is a trader, so you're right the Oil are in tough for a the foreseeable future. The plan looks to me is to ride out the bad contracts and try to maximize the assets through aggressive drafting and small simple trades/FA signings.

The Oilers will be a bad team for at least 5 years before the ship gets turned around. McDavid may go nuclear before that time.



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 Re: Sekera bought out... [message #739771 is a reply to message #739770 ]
Tue, 02 July 2019 10:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Location: Edmonton

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I think he wanted Nyquist, but got into a bidding war with a desperate Columbus and had to throw the towel in.

Needed another goalie, tried to get 1 top 6 winger, and they are hoping that they can upgrade the usefulness of the bottom 6 so they don't have to run our top 3 forwards into the ground again. Probably hoped that would be enough to at least compete for a wildcard spot, and next summer it could be easier to move on from Russell and Lucic, and hopefully a better cap increase.

Also gambling on 1 or 2 of our developing D being able to play a role this season.

Lots of gambles! The top 6 winger one obviously didn't work out, now need to hope a good trade comes along. D group has unknowns. If this new bottom 6 is actually better is up in the air until Tippett gets his hands on this team. Goaltending huge question mark too.

Gonna be a fun year :)



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-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


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 Re: Sekera bought out... [message #739773 is a reply to message #739771 ]
Tue, 02 July 2019 10:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 4819
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I think there will be a trade at some point. My guess is it will involve JP and probably something else for a forward. I know some fans probably got their hopes up once they saw the buyout thinking a big signing was coming but I think it was done for a future trade. The buyout window ends right before free agency opens. So it had to be done then.

[Updated on: Tue, 02 July 2019 10:20]


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