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Re: Sekera (Officially) put on LTIR [message #729191 is a reply to message #729189 ]	Wed, 30 January 2019 11:25

CrusaderPi
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Location: AB Highway 100

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CrudeRemarks wrote on Wed, 30 January 2019 11:16

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 30 January 2019 11:09

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 30 January 2019 10:42

It's not like they would be tearing up his contract and not paying him. He could go on LTIR and get all his money. Maybe I am wrong and he's a freak of nature but I don't see how someone can miss just about 2 years of hockey and just jump back in and be fine and up to speed. If it was an arm injury then sure, I could see it. But 2 major leg injuries in a row?

You're arguing two different points here. The former, "he can just go on LTIR" is wrong and should be a contract violation (although I can't be bothered to read the CBA or the standard player contract and I certainly don't know any clauses unique to Sekera). LTIR is not the same as coming back to play, even at lesser quality, except in terms of pay. Sekera is under no obligation to do this, and shouldn't allow this.

The second point is correct, but completely irrelevant to contract. It doesn't matter if he's is as good as he once was OR isn't good enough to be a player in the NHL now, he has a contract that was signed in good faith backed by a CBA, also signed in good faith. Now, the Oilers do have options if Sekera isn't good enough, but it's limited to a buy out now.

Fate has a funny way of giving declining players soft tissue injuries or rashes that are difficult to see but make it nearly impossible to play hockey though.

It sure does, but only if those soft tissue issues or rashes are noticeable by the player.

I should mention that my opinion is based on Sekera wanting to continue to play. If he's happy to "retire" more power to him. But if he wants to keep playing, the Oilers should be held to their obligations.

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Re: Sekera (Officially) put on LTIR [message #729190 is a reply to message #729188 ]	Wed, 30 January 2019 11:17

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3686
Registered: January 2016

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CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 30 January 2019 11:09

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 30 January 2019 10:42

It's not like they would be tearing up his contract and not paying him. He could go on LTIR and get all his money. Maybe I am wrong and he's a freak of nature but I don't see how someone can miss just about 2 years of hockey and just jump back in and be fine and up to speed. If it was an arm injury then sure, I could see it. But 2 major leg injuries in a row?

You're arguing two different points here. The former, "he can just go on LTIR" is wrong and should be a contract violation (although I can't be bothered to read the CBA or the standard player contract and I certainly don't know any clauses unique to Sekera). LTIR is not the same as coming back to play, even at lesser quality, except in terms of pay. Sekera is under no obligation to do this, and shouldn't allow this.

The second point is correct, but completely irrelevant to contract. It doesn't matter if he's is as good as he once was OR isn't good enough to be a player in the NHL now, he has a contract that was signed in good faith backed by a CBA, also signed in good faith. Now, the Oilers do have options if Sekera isn't good enough, but it's limited to a buy out now.

Well this doesn't really do anything for the decision because I get what you are saying but I think that is part of the problem with the NHL. Once you signed these contracts, that's it, you are stuck with them no matter what. As you said, the contract was signed in good faith. So the team is signing the player thinking they are getting a player and expect that player to do certain things over the length of the deal. The player is saying "yup, sure can." But in reality, once the deal is signed there is ZERO accountability for the player to EVER live up to that contract and most of the time when you are signing a UFA, they NEVER live up to it. They are never the player they once was. Part of it could be on the team and the circumstances but I think a lot of it is on the player. They get that big money, long term, iron clad deal and they take their foot off the gas a little.

It's too bad because I think the product of the game would be a hell of a lot better if these contracts weren't so pro player. If all contracts were more incentive based, I think we'd see better hockey because you wouldn't see players cruising around going through the motions. There should be production clauses in it. You are signed to be player X. If you are not player X anymore, the team should be able to get out of it. If a team brings in a top sales guy and he doesn't bring sales, they aren't forced to keep him.

[Updated on: Wed, 30 January 2019 11:26]

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Re: Sekera (Officially) put on LTIR [message #729192 is a reply to message #729190 ]	Wed, 30 January 2019 11:31

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7632
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 30 January 2019 11:17

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 30 January 2019 11:09

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 30 January 2019 10:42

It's not like they would be tearing up his contract and not paying him. He could go on LTIR and get all his money. Maybe I am wrong and he's a freak of nature but I don't see how someone can miss just about 2 years of hockey and just jump back in and be fine and up to speed. If it was an arm injury then sure, I could see it. But 2 major leg injuries in a row?

You're arguing two different points here. The former, "he can just go on LTIR" is wrong and should be a contract violation (although I can't be bothered to read the CBA or the standard player contract and I certainly don't know any clauses unique to Sekera). LTIR is not the same as coming back to play, even at lesser quality, except in terms of pay. Sekera is under no obligation to do this, and shouldn't allow this.

The second point is correct, but completely irrelevant to contract. It doesn't matter if he's is as good as he once was OR isn't good enough to be a player in the NHL now, he has a contract that was signed in good faith backed by a CBA, also signed in good faith. Now, the Oilers do have options if Sekera isn't good enough, but it's limited to a buy out now.

Well this doesn't really do anything for the decision because I get what you are saying but I think that is part of the problem with the NHL. Once you signed these contracts, that's it, you are stuck with them no matter what. As you said, the contract was signed in good faith. So the team is signing the player thinking they are getting a player and expect that player to do certain things over the length of the deal. The player is saying "yup, sure can." But in reality, once the deal is signed there is ZERO accountability for the player to EVER live up to that contract and most of the time when you are signing a UFA, they NEVER live up to it. They are never the player they once was. Part of it could be on the team and the circumstances but I think a lot of it is on the player. They get that big money, long term, iron clad deal and they take their foot off the gas a little.

It's too bad because I think the product of the game would be a hell of a lot better if these contracts weren't so pro player. If all contracts were more incentive based, I think we'd see better hockey because you wouldn't see players cruising around going through the motions. There should be production clauses in it. You are signed to be player X. If you are not player X anymore, the team should be able to get out of it. If a team brings in a top sales guy and he doesn't bring sales, they aren't forced to keep him.

I get what you're saying, but I don't see how protection from injury make contracts pro-player. The player does have obligations, like conditioning, lifestyle, fitness for work, and general behavior, that he has to meet, but injuries are different since they're simply part of the game. The closest parallel to what you're suggesting is professional wrestling and even those guys (in the WWE) have guaranteed downsides in case they get injured and can't perform to the same level now.

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Re: Sekera (Officially) put on LTIR [message #729195 is a reply to message #729192 ]	Wed, 30 January 2019 11:43

RDOilerfan
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CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 30 January 2019 11:31

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 30 January 2019 11:17

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 30 January 2019 11:09

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 30 January 2019 10:42

It's not like they would be tearing up his contract and not paying him. He could go on LTIR and get all his money. Maybe I am wrong and he's a freak of nature but I don't see how someone can miss just about 2 years of hockey and just jump back in and be fine and up to speed. If it was an arm injury then sure, I could see it. But 2 major leg injuries in a row?

You're arguing two different points here. The former, "he can just go on LTIR" is wrong and should be a contract violation (although I can't be bothered to read the CBA or the standard player contract and I certainly don't know any clauses unique to Sekera). LTIR is not the same as coming back to play, even at lesser quality, except in terms of pay. Sekera is under no obligation to do this, and shouldn't allow this.

The second point is correct, but completely irrelevant to contract. It doesn't matter if he's is as good as he once was OR isn't good enough to be a player in the NHL now, he has a contract that was signed in good faith backed by a CBA, also signed in good faith. Now, the Oilers do have options if Sekera isn't good enough, but it's limited to a buy out now.

Well this doesn't really do anything for the decision because I get what you are saying but I think that is part of the problem with the NHL. Once you signed these contracts, that's it, you are stuck with them no matter what. As you said, the contract was signed in good faith. So the team is signing the player thinking they are getting a player and expect that player to do certain things over the length of the deal. The player is saying "yup, sure can." But in reality, once the deal is signed there is ZERO accountability for the player to EVER live up to that contract and most of the time when you are signing a UFA, they NEVER live up to it. They are never the player they once was. Part of it could be on the team and the circumstances but I think a lot of it is on the player. They get that big money, long term, iron clad deal and they take their foot off the gas a little.

It's too bad because I think the product of the game would be a hell of a lot better if these contracts weren't so pro player. If all contracts were more incentive based, I think we'd see better hockey because you wouldn't see players cruising around going through the motions. There should be production clauses in it. You are signed to be player X. If you are not player X anymore, the team should be able to get out of it. If a team brings in a top sales guy and he doesn't bring sales, they aren't forced to keep him.

I get what you're saying, but I don't see how protection from injury make contracts pro-player. The player does have obligations, like conditioning, lifestyle, fitness for work, and general behavior, that he has to meet, but injuries are different since they're simply part of the game. The closest parallel to what you're suggesting is professional wrestling and even those guys (in the WWE) have guaranteed downsides in case they get injured and can't perform to the same level now.

I don't think that a player should necessarily have his contract torn up because he can't live up to is anymore due to injury but at the same time, the team signed him and are paying him to be at a certain level. If he's not capable to be at that level anymore through no fault of the team, it doesn't seem fair to have to pay him like that. Maybe have half of a players salary as base, then the rest is performances based. You'd make the performance bonuses pretty easy to achieve. Personally, given his age and how much hockey he's missed the last 2 years, I think the Oilers will be lucky if Sekera is able to be even a mediocre 3rd pairing guy. They didn't sign up for that.

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Re: Sekera (Officially) put on LTIR [message #729202 is a reply to message #729195 ]	Wed, 30 January 2019 13:09

Goose
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 30 January 2019 10:43

I don't think that a player should necessarily have his contract torn up because he can't live up to is anymore due to injury but at the same time, the team signed him and are paying him to be at a certain level. If he's not capable to be at that level anymore through no fault of the team, it doesn't seem fair to have to pay him like that. Maybe have half of a players salary as base, then the rest is performances based. You'd make the performance bonuses pretty easy to achieve. Personally, given his age and how much hockey he's missed the last 2 years, I think the Oilers will be lucky if Sekera is able to be even a mediocre 3rd pairing guy. They didn't sign up for that.

I'm skeptical that have more bonus laden contracts would necessarily make the league better, just given what the research tells us about cash incentives (they don't work nearly as well as we think they do).

And I hear what you're saying on the injury front, and how the Oilers didn't sign up for Sekera's injuries. But they kind of did, or at least they signed up for how this scenario is playing out. The NHLPA and NHL negotiated the CBA, and without being in the room, we can assume that limiting performance bonuses and ensuring that players get paid their full salary was part of the negotiation that the NHLPA presumably had to give up something to get written into the CBA. The NHL, as the representative for the Oilers in the CBA negotiations, did sign up for exactly this situation.

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Re: Sekera (Officially) put on LTIR [message #729203 is a reply to message #729195 ]	Wed, 30 January 2019 13:13

CrusaderPi
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 30 January 2019 11:43

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 30 January 2019 11:31

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 30 January 2019 11:17

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 30 January 2019 11:09

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 30 January 2019 10:42

It's not like they would be tearing up his contract and not paying him. He could go on LTIR and get all his money. Maybe I am wrong and he's a freak of nature but I don't see how someone can miss just about 2 years of hockey and just jump back in and be fine and up to speed. If it was an arm injury then sure, I could see it. But 2 major leg injuries in a row?

You're arguing two different points here. The former, "he can just go on LTIR" is wrong and should be a contract violation (although I can't be bothered to read the CBA or the standard player contract and I certainly don't know any clauses unique to Sekera). LTIR is not the same as coming back to play, even at lesser quality, except in terms of pay. Sekera is under no obligation to do this, and shouldn't allow this.

The second point is correct, but completely irrelevant to contract. It doesn't matter if he's is as good as he once was OR isn't good enough to be a player in the NHL now, he has a contract that was signed in good faith backed by a CBA, also signed in good faith. Now, the Oilers do have options if Sekera isn't good enough, but it's limited to a buy out now.

Well this doesn't really do anything for the decision because I get what you are saying but I think that is part of the problem with the NHL. Once you signed these contracts, that's it, you are stuck with them no matter what. As you said, the contract was signed in good faith. So the team is signing the player thinking they are getting a player and expect that player to do certain things over the length of the deal. The player is saying "yup, sure can." But in reality, once the deal is signed there is ZERO accountability for the player to EVER live up to that contract and most of the time when you are signing a UFA, they NEVER live up to it. They are never the player they once was. Part of it could be on the team and the circumstances but I think a lot of it is on the player. They get that big money, long term, iron clad deal and they take their foot off the gas a little.

It's too bad because I think the product of the game would be a hell of a lot better if these contracts weren't so pro player. If all contracts were more incentive based, I think we'd see better hockey because you wouldn't see players cruising around going through the motions. There should be production clauses in it. You are signed to be player X. If you are not player X anymore, the team should be able to get out of it. If a team brings in a top sales guy and he doesn't bring sales, they aren't forced to keep him.

I get what you're saying, but I don't see how protection from injury make contracts pro-player. The player does have obligations, like conditioning, lifestyle, fitness for work, and general behavior, that he has to meet, but injuries are different since they're simply part of the game. The closest parallel to what you're suggesting is professional wrestling and even those guys (in the WWE) have guaranteed downsides in case they get injured and can't perform to the same level now.

I don't think that a player should necessarily have his contract torn up because he can't live up to is anymore due to injury but at the same time, the team signed him and are paying him to be at a certain level. If he's not capable to be at that level anymore through no fault of the team, it doesn't seem fair to have to pay him like that. Maybe have half of a players salary as base, then the rest is performances based. You'd make the performance bonuses pretty easy to achieve. Personally, given his age and how much hockey he's missed the last 2 years, I think the Oilers will be lucky if Sekera is able to be even a mediocre 3rd pairing guy. They didn't sign up for that.

The team, and all employers, do bear responsibility for the safety of their employees. You'd have a hard time signing players or getting any employees if you pushed financial responsibility for workplace injuries onto the employee. Fortunately this isn't how labor law is set up, so that isn't a worry for us working people.

I don't really think where you're pushing this works. The team already gets cap relief while a player is on LTIR, but I don't think they should get anything if the player simply isn't good enough. Let's use Lucic as an example, should he take a financial hit because he's not producing at the level the Oilers would like? The Oilers signed him and he's capable of playing, in game-ready good shape, and shows up to work. He's just not very good. Sekera has (probably) declined to the same level as Lucic, but the only difference is he's been injured in a workplace incident.

Semi-related question: I wonder if the Oilers pay WCB premiums for their players.

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Re: Sekera (Officially) put on LTIR [message #729198 is a reply to message #729192 ]	Wed, 30 January 2019 12:21

Adam
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CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 30 January 2019 11:31

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 30 January 2019 11:17

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 30 January 2019 11:09

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 30 January 2019 10:42

It's not like they would be tearing up his contract and not paying him. He could go on LTIR and get all his money. Maybe I am wrong and he's a freak of nature but I don't see how someone can miss just about 2 years of hockey and just jump back in and be fine and up to speed. If it was an arm injury then sure, I could see it. But 2 major leg injuries in a row?

You're arguing two different points here. The former, "he can just go on LTIR" is wrong and should be a contract violation (although I can't be bothered to read the CBA or the standard player contract and I certainly don't know any clauses unique to Sekera). LTIR is not the same as coming back to play, even at lesser quality, except in terms of pay. Sekera is under no obligation to do this, and shouldn't allow this.

The second point is correct, but completely irrelevant to contract. It doesn't matter if he's is as good as he once was OR isn't good enough to be a player in the NHL now, he has a contract that was signed in good faith backed by a CBA, also signed in good faith. Now, the Oilers do have options if Sekera isn't good enough, but it's limited to a buy out now.

Well this doesn't really do anything for the decision because I get what you are saying but I think that is part of the problem with the NHL. Once you signed these contracts, that's it, you are stuck with them no matter what. As you said, the contract was signed in good faith. So the team is signing the player thinking they are getting a player and expect that player to do certain things over the length of the deal. The player is saying "yup, sure can." But in reality, once the deal is signed there is ZERO accountability for the player to EVER live up to that contract and most of the time when you are signing a UFA, they NEVER live up to it. They are never the player they once was. Part of it could be on the team and the circumstances but I think a lot of it is on the player. They get that big money, long term, iron clad deal and they take their foot off the gas a little.

It's too bad because I think the product of the game would be a hell of a lot better if these contracts weren't so pro player. If all contracts were more incentive based, I think we'd see better hockey because you wouldn't see players cruising around going through the motions. There should be production clauses in it. You are signed to be player X. If you are not player X anymore, the team should be able to get out of it. If a team brings in a top sales guy and he doesn't bring sales, they aren't forced to keep him.

I get what you're saying, but I don't see how protection from injury make contracts pro-player. The player does have obligations, like conditioning, lifestyle, fitness for work, and general behavior, that he has to meet, but injuries are different since they're simply part of the game. The closest parallel to what you're suggesting is professional wrestling and even those guys (in the WWE) have guaranteed downsides in case they get injured and can't perform to the same level now.

Yeah, it's kind of weird to see Oilers fans cheerleading for long term injury to a player to get us out of cap difficulties. Especially a player who at ever 75% is better than half the defenceman options we currently have.

It doesn't seem unfair at all to me that a team is on the hook if a player's performance declines. That's why you don't sign over-30s guys to long-term deals with no-move clauses. Bettman's been beating that drum for years, and GMs continue to make those mistakes.

Lucic and Sekera only have to be able to play to collect their money. They don't need to be good at playing - and the Oilers are paying the price for recklessness on the part of their GM. For what it's worth, I still think Sekera was a much better and lower risk signing than Lucic or even Russell. If I could undo go back in time and undo two of the three, Sekera would be the one I keep because generally when he's been in the lineup, he's been value for the contract (other than a period last year when the team rushed him back too soon from injury, because they failed to come up with any contingency plans despite having cap space to do so). I also think he's the most likely to be able to perform to expectations in the remainder of his deal...unless your expectation for Russell is more goals against where he's doing snow angels as the other team's player walks past...

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Re: Sekera (Officially) put on LTIR [message #729196 is a reply to message #729182 ]	Wed, 30 January 2019 11:47

Adam
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CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 30 January 2019 10:26

Goose wrote on Wed, 30 January 2019 10:01

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 30 January 2019

When it comes to Sekera, he needs to stay away. Let's pretend he is 100% healthy, I do not see how he could be even 80%. He's missed ALL of camp, ALL of preseason, ALL of the regular season. Practicing and doing a conditioning stint for 2 weeks doesn't catch you up to everyone. You can't. Maybe, if he was as good as a Karlsson then MAYBE he could get to that 80% you mention just because when he is at his best, he's just SO much better than most dmen. If Sekera was 100% healthy and didn't miss anytime, at 32, he might be a good 3-4 dman. But given he missed all of the offseason, all of camp, all of preseason and then almost half of last year plus he again missed more than a month of his offseason, all of camp, all of preseason, and so far ALL of this season, you'd be lucky if he was capable of being a #6 dman. No player can miss that much hockey in 2 years at this level and come back to be effective, especially when he will be 33. I feel bad for the guy, he was a good player and a good guy but he's done.

I'm pretty sure they were referring to Chia losing his job, not Sekera.

As for Sekera needing to stay away, why? He doesn't owe the Oilers anything. I dont understand why we treat athletes and sports teams like some sort of special class. Sekera is an employee and the Oilers are his employer. If he feels like he's ready to play, the doctors have cleared him and the Oilers are keeping him from playing because they messed up the cap situation, then that's on the Oilers not Sekera. It's not his responsibility to bail out the Oilers. You wouldn't accept this from your employer, I'm not sure why you expect a hockey player to do the same.

As for Sekera being done, again, that's not your decision to make and it's not the Oilers' decision, Sekera gets to decide when he's done. He has a guaranteed contract and a no movement clause that were negotiated in good faith. The Oilers don't have to play him, they can sit him in the press box if they want. But it sure looks like they're making decisions on whether to activate Sekera or not based on the cap and not on readiness. And that's a pretty bad look for the Oilers imo.

I agree with this one. The employee is under no obligation to fix problems the employer caused by breaking his contract. The union should have hammered the Leafs over this and they should fight tooth and nail to protect Sekera from the Oilers. If this were my union I'd be fighting on the grounds that they are limiting Sekera in the present and the future, in terms of earning potential, by playing these games.

Yep - and with Sekera having the no-move, the Oilers don't have the same hammer the Leafs did with Lupul. They can't tell him he's going to get paid his money playing in the East Coast league. The most the Oilers can do is bench him and have him watch every game - which isn't that bad in the NHL.

If Sekera can get a doctor to say he's cleared to play, I don't see the Oilers having a lot of options. It's not Sekera's fault that the team put themselves in to a bind foolishly spending LTIR money. Even worse that they spent that money on guys like Brandon Manning...

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: Sekera (Officially) put on LTIR [message #729183 is a reply to message #729181 ]	Wed, 30 January 2019 10:30

RDOilerfan
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Goose wrote on Wed, 30 January 2019 10:01

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 30 January 2019

When it comes to Sekera, he needs to stay away. Let's pretend he is 100% healthy, I do not see how he could be even 80%. He's missed ALL of camp, ALL of preseason, ALL of the regular season. Practicing and doing a conditioning stint for 2 weeks doesn't catch you up to everyone. You can't. Maybe, if he was as good as a Karlsson then MAYBE he could get to that 80% you mention just because when he is at his best, he's just SO much better than most dmen. If Sekera was 100% healthy and didn't miss anytime, at 32, he might be a good 3-4 dman. But given he missed all of the offseason, all of camp, all of preseason and then almost half of last year plus he again missed more than a month of his offseason, all of camp, all of preseason, and so far ALL of this season, you'd be lucky if he was capable of being a #6 dman. No player can miss that much hockey in 2 years at this level and come back to be effective, especially when he will be 33. I feel bad for the guy, he was a good player and a good guy but he's done.

I'm pretty sure they were referring to Chia losing his job, not Sekera.

As for Sekera needing to stay away, why? He doesn't owe the Oilers anything. I dont understand why we treat athletes and sports teams like some sort of special class. Sekera is an employee and the Oilers are his employer. If he feels like he's ready to play, the doctors have cleared him and the Oilers are keeping him from playing because they messed up the cap situation, then that's on the Oilers not Sekera. It's not his responsibility to bail out the Oilers. You wouldn't accept this from your employer, I'm not sure why you expect a hockey player to do the same.

As for Sekera being done, again, that's not your decision to make and it's not the Oilers' decision, Sekera gets to decide when he's done. He has a guaranteed contract and a no movement clause that were negotiated in good faith. The Oilers don't have to play him, they can sit him in the press box if they want. But it sure looks like they're making decisions on whether to activate Sekera or not based on the cap and not on readiness. And that's a pretty bad look for the Oilers imo.

So as an employer, if Sekera was a welder and he got injured, got everything repaired, the doc said he is healthy but he's no where near the same quality of welder meaning he can't do the job anywhere close to what he used to, the employer is on the hook to keep him around just because?

I am sure that at some point given enough time, Sekera will come back, be 100% healthy in that he has no limitations and will be capable of playing pro hockey. That might mean that given the severity of the 2 injuries back to back, his age and the amount of time that has passed since he played. He's barely played, practiced or trained in 2 years. He might only be able to be capable of being a good AHL dmen. But that doesn't matter, the Oilers are stuck with this guy and should be forced to play a guy that can't be an NHLer anymore thanks to injury. How does that make sense?

I am not trying to stick up for the Oilers management. They lost my faith a while ago. They did this to themselves. But when it comes to Sekera, they didn't do any of this. They didn't cause his knee injury, nor did they cause the achilies. Why should they be forced to play a guy who most likely won't be capable of being at the NHL level thanks to injury?

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Re: Sekera (Officially) put on LTIR [message #729187 is a reply to message #729183 ]	Wed, 30 January 2019 11:03

CrusaderPi
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 30 January 2019 10:30

Goose wrote on Wed, 30 January 2019 10:01

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 30 January 2019

When it comes to Sekera, he needs to stay away. Let's pretend he is 100% healthy, I do not see how he could be even 80%. He's missed ALL of camp, ALL of preseason, ALL of the regular season. Practicing and doing a conditioning stint for 2 weeks doesn't catch you up to everyone. You can't. Maybe, if he was as good as a Karlsson then MAYBE he could get to that 80% you mention just because when he is at his best, he's just SO much better than most dmen. If Sekera was 100% healthy and didn't miss anytime, at 32, he might be a good 3-4 dman. But given he missed all of the offseason, all of camp, all of preseason and then almost half of last year plus he again missed more than a month of his offseason, all of camp, all of preseason, and so far ALL of this season, you'd be lucky if he was capable of being a #6 dman. No player can miss that much hockey in 2 years at this level and come back to be effective, especially when he will be 33. I feel bad for the guy, he was a good player and a good guy but he's done.

I'm pretty sure they were referring to Chia losing his job, not Sekera.

As for Sekera needing to stay away, why? He doesn't owe the Oilers anything. I dont understand why we treat athletes and sports teams like some sort of special class. Sekera is an employee and the Oilers are his employer. If he feels like he's ready to play, the doctors have cleared him and the Oilers are keeping him from playing because they messed up the cap situation, then that's on the Oilers not Sekera. It's not his responsibility to bail out the Oilers. You wouldn't accept this from your employer, I'm not sure why you expect a hockey player to do the same.

As for Sekera being done, again, that's not your decision to make and it's not the Oilers' decision, Sekera gets to decide when he's done. He has a guaranteed contract and a no movement clause that were negotiated in good faith. The Oilers don't have to play him, they can sit him in the press box if they want. But it sure looks like they're making decisions on whether to activate Sekera or not based on the cap and not on readiness. And that's a pretty bad look for the Oilers imo.

So as an employer, if Sekera was a welder and he got injured, got everything repaired, the doc said he is healthy but he's no where near the same quality of welder meaning he can't do the job anywhere close to what he used to, the employer is on the hook to keep him around just because?

If he had an end dated contract, the injury happened at work and as a result of his work, and there was a collective agreement with language similar to the NHL's? Yes. The employer is obligated to do so.

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Re: Sekera (Officially) put on LTIR [message #729206 is a reply to message #729187 ]	Wed, 30 January 2019 13:17

overdue
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So say he is ready to play and be part of the active roster again. Does anyone here know or have any ideas as to how the Oilers are going to be able to squeeze him in under their much inflated salary cap? Something has to give in the current structure of the team salary.

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Re: Sekera (Officially) put on LTIR [message #729207 is a reply to message #729206 ]	Wed, 30 January 2019 13:35

Oscargasm
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overdue wrote on Wed, 30 January 2019 14:17

So say he is ready to play and be part of the active roster again. Does anyone here know or have any ideas as to how the Oilers are going to be able to squeeze him in under their much inflated salary cap? Something has to give in the current structure of the team salary.

The acquisitions of Spooner and Manning (Petro too) made that very difficult. I mean ‘in a perfect world’ since they’ve already decided they won’t keep Talbot after this season, if they could trade him (somehow) then that’s likely the easiest 1 move play. But that isn’t likely.

KG is going to have to get creative, but I’d assume some pieces will start to ‘fall into place’ soon. Especially if they have an inkling that Sek will need to be activated as it seems could be the case.

Word out of Philly they want a veteran goalie to mentor Hart. Talbs could be good in that type of role.

[Updated on: Wed, 30 January 2019 14:34]

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Re: Sekera (Officially) put on LTIR [message #729214 is a reply to message #729206 ]	Wed, 30 January 2019 16:57

mightyreasoner
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overdue wrote on Wed, 30 January 2019 13:17

So say he is ready to play and be part of the active roster again. Does anyone here know or have any ideas as to how the Oilers are going to be able to squeeze him in under their much inflated salary cap? Something has to give in the current structure of the team salary.

Goodbye Klefbom or RNH.

I already feel like Stauffer and Matheson are prepping us for a good player to move for "cap reasons".

This is a surprise to literally no one except the Oilers apparently, who felt it was a good idea to get Manning knowing that Sekera could be back in a month and need to be put back into the active cap.

This is prototypical Oilers right here

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Re: Sekera (Officially) put on LTIR [message #729155 is a reply to message #729139 ]	Tue, 29 January 2019 08:27

RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Mon, 28 January 2019 15:25

GabbyDugan wrote on Mon, 28 January 2019 14:46

So any updates on Sekera's health? Haven't heard a peep since it was announced back in December that he had stopped wearing the non-contact practice jerseys and willing to go to Bakersfield for some rehab work ( of course, that would mean he needs to be put on the roster, along with his salary cap hit. Is there any way the Oilers can manage that?)

Interesting that the IIHF World Championships will be held in Sekera's homeland of Slovakia May10-26 this year. I'm sure Slovakia would love to have Sekera in the tournament, and Sekera, health permitting, would probably want to play in the tournament (pending the Oilers getting past the first playoff round, of course).

More cryptic comments from Stauffer, saying today that if it didn't work, they could LTIR the rest of his contract...but that was in response to someone asking what happens if he doesn't come back. It's not really clear what's happening there.

I think the player wants to come back...can't see why he'd be skating line rushes etc. with the team if he didn't think his recovery was on track...

Does anyone know how LTIR works when it comes to whether a player is fit to play or not? What I mean is in the case of Sekera. He's rehabbing and skating with the team in and effort to come back but what if he's not able to keep up? I am sure his injury is healed and he can get to the point where he can go out on the ice and skate around really well so to the average person, he looks fine. But he might not be up to NHL level. So if he can only get to a level where he's a good enough skater to say play in some European league which would be a step or 2 below the NHL, is that grounds enough to keep him on LTIR?

I just wonder if that is true because when your listen to Stauffer talk, he never says Sekera could be done with hockey, he just keeps saying over and over again how he is not sure Sekera will ever be able to play at the NHL level again.

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Re: Sekera (Officially) put on LTIR [message #729157 is a reply to message #729155 ]	Tue, 29 January 2019 10:18

Oscargasm
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 29 January 2019 09:27

Adam wrote on Mon, 28 January 2019 15:25

GabbyDugan wrote on Mon, 28 January 2019 14:46

So any updates on Sekera's health? Haven't heard a peep since it was announced back in December that he had stopped wearing the non-contact practice jerseys and willing to go to Bakersfield for some rehab work ( of course, that would mean he needs to be put on the roster, along with his salary cap hit. Is there any way the Oilers can manage that?)

Interesting that the IIHF World Championships will be held in Sekera's homeland of Slovakia May10-26 this year. I'm sure Slovakia would love to have Sekera in the tournament, and Sekera, health permitting, would probably want to play in the tournament (pending the Oilers getting past the first playoff round, of course).

More cryptic comments from Stauffer, saying today that if it didn't work, they could LTIR the rest of his contract...but that was in response to someone asking what happens if he doesn't come back. It's not really clear what's happening there.

I think the player wants to come back...can't see why he'd be skating line rushes etc. with the team if he didn't think his recovery was on track...

Does anyone know how LTIR works when it comes to whether a player is fit to play or not? What I mean is in the case of Sekera. He's rehabbing and skating with the team in and effort to come back but what if he's not able to keep up? I am sure his injury is healed and he can get to the point where he can go out on the ice and skate around really well so to the average person, he looks fine. But he might not be up to NHL level. So if he can only get to a level where he's a good enough skater to say play in some European league which would be a step or 2 below the NHL, is that grounds enough to keep him on LTIR?

I just wonder if that is true because when your listen to Stauffer talk, he never says Sekera could be done with hockey, he just keeps saying over and over again how he is not sure Sekera will ever be able to play at the NHL level again.

Not 100% on it, but wasn’t Lupul on LTIR with the Leafs and then there was a big thing how he wasn’t actually injured and the PA had an outside doc look at him to ‘determine’ he is still injured and unable to play?

If he's (Sekera) truly fit, in his mind, and wants to return but the Oilers say no, the PA and the League can step in, no? As long as he has some doctor somewhere, recognized by the NHL, say he’s fit?

Like I said, I don’t know 100% so flame away if I’m way off base. Just wanted to be included icon_biggrin

icon_biggrin

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Re: Sekera (Officially) put on LTIR [message #729158 is a reply to message #729157 ]	Tue, 29 January 2019 10:51

RDOilerfan
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Oscargasm wrote on Tue, 29 January 2019 10:18

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 29 January 2019 09:27

Adam wrote on Mon, 28 January 2019 15:25

GabbyDugan wrote on Mon, 28 January 2019 14:46

So any updates on Sekera's health? Haven't heard a peep since it was announced back in December that he had stopped wearing the non-contact practice jerseys and willing to go to Bakersfield for some rehab work ( of course, that would mean he needs to be put on the roster, along with his salary cap hit. Is there any way the Oilers can manage that?)

Interesting that the IIHF World Championships will be held in Sekera's homeland of Slovakia May10-26 this year. I'm sure Slovakia would love to have Sekera in the tournament, and Sekera, health permitting, would probably want to play in the tournament (pending the Oilers getting past the first playoff round, of course).

More cryptic comments from Stauffer, saying today that if it didn't work, they could LTIR the rest of his contract...but that was in response to someone asking what happens if he doesn't come back. It's not really clear what's happening there.

I think the player wants to come back...can't see why he'd be skating line rushes etc. with the team if he didn't think his recovery was on track...

Does anyone know how LTIR works when it comes to whether a player is fit to play or not? What I mean is in the case of Sekera. He's rehabbing and skating with the team in and effort to come back but what if he's not able to keep up? I am sure his injury is healed and he can get to the point where he can go out on the ice and skate around really well so to the average person, he looks fine. But he might not be up to NHL level. So if he can only get to a level where he's a good enough skater to say play in some European league which would be a step or 2 below the NHL, is that grounds enough to keep him on LTIR?

I just wonder if that is true because when your listen to Stauffer talk, he never says Sekera could be done with hockey, he just keeps saying over and over again how he is not sure Sekera will ever be able to play at the NHL level again.

Not 100% on it, but wasn’t Lupul on LTIR with the Leafs and then there was a big thing how he wasn’t actually injured and the PA had an outside doc look at him to ‘determine’ he is still injured and unable to play?

If he's (Sekera) truly fit, in his mind, and wants to return but the Oilers say no, the PA and the League can step in, no? As long as he has some doctor somewhere, recognized by the NHL, say he’s fit?

Like I said, I don’t know 100% so flame away if I’m way off base. Just wanted to be included icon_biggrin

icon_biggrin

I don't know either. The reason I was asking is maybe in his mind, Sekera thinks he can play pro hockey but he might not be an NHLer anymore due to injury. There are lots of guys who are stars in European leagues but would be lucky to be a extra forward/dman in the NHL. Go watch the Spengler Cup and it's loaded with guys who would be really good AHLers but wouldn't crack an NHL line up full time.

You can blame a team for signing a guy for too much money and term thinking he will be a top 6 forward or top 4 dman but he ends up not being that. But in the case if Sekera. He was the Oilers best dman for a time and if he didn't get hurt, he'd easily be at least a decent second pairing dman.

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Re: Sekera (Officially) put on LTIR [message #729163 is a reply to message #729158 ]	Tue, 29 January 2019 11:29

Oscargasm
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 29 January 2019 11:51

Oscargasm wrote on Tue, 29 January 2019 10:18

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 29 January 2019 09:27

Adam wrote on Mon, 28 January 2019 15:25

GabbyDugan wrote on Mon, 28 January 2019 14:46

So any updates on Sekera's health? Haven't heard a peep since it was announced back in December that he had stopped wearing the non-contact practice jerseys and willing to go to Bakersfield for some rehab work ( of course, that would mean he needs to be put on the roster, along with his salary cap hit. Is there any way the Oilers can manage that?)

Interesting that the IIHF World Championships will be held in Sekera's homeland of Slovakia May10-26 this year. I'm sure Slovakia would love to have Sekera in the tournament, and Sekera, health permitting, would probably want to play in the tournament (pending the Oilers getting past the first playoff round, of course).

More cryptic comments from Stauffer, saying today that if it didn't work, they could LTIR the rest of his contract...but that was in response to someone asking what happens if he doesn't come back. It's not really clear what's happening there.

I think the player wants to come back...can't see why he'd be skating line rushes etc. with the team if he didn't think his recovery was on track...

Does anyone know how LTIR works when it comes to whether a player is fit to play or not? What I mean is in the case of Sekera. He's rehabbing and skating with the team in and effort to come back but what if he's not able to keep up? I am sure his injury is healed and he can get to the point where he can go out on the ice and skate around really well so to the average person, he looks fine. But he might not be up to NHL level. So if he can only get to a level where he's a good enough skater to say play in some European league which would be a step or 2 below the NHL, is that grounds enough to keep him on LTIR?

I just wonder if that is true because when your listen to Stauffer talk, he never says Sekera could be done with hockey, he just keeps saying over and over again how he is not sure Sekera will ever be able to play at the NHL level again.

Not 100% on it, but wasn’t Lupul on LTIR with the Leafs and then there was a big thing how he wasn’t actually injured and the PA had an outside doc look at him to ‘determine’ he is still injured and unable to play?

If he's (Sekera) truly fit, in his mind, and wants to return but the Oilers say no, the PA and the League can step in, no? As long as he has some doctor somewhere, recognized by the NHL, say he’s fit?

Like I said, I don’t know 100% so flame away if I’m way off base. Just wanted to be included icon_biggrin

icon_biggrin

I don't know either. The reason I was asking is maybe in his mind, Sekera thinks he can play pro hockey but he might not be an NHLer anymore due to injury. There are lots of guys who are stars in European leagues but would be lucky to be a extra forward/dman in the NHL. Go watch the Spengler Cup and it's loaded with guys who would be really good AHLers but wouldn't crack an NHL line up full time.

You can blame a team for signing a guy for too much money and term thinking he will be a top 6 forward or top 4 dman but he ends up not being that. But in the case if Sekera. He was the Oilers best dman for a time and if he didn't get hurt, he'd easily be at least a decent second pairing dman.

Absolutely, he and Russell made a good pair tbh. He also allowed Nurse to be a little more sheltered for his development. Our D corps just hasn’t been the same since Getzlaf took Sek out (and obvious unfortunate Achilles injury the following year). Chia couldn’t replace him, whether it by ignorance hoping that Nurse would be able to fill the role or by sheer bad timing, though still didn’t appear to try to remedy the situation.

For all intents and purposes Klefbom is back now. If somehow Reggie, and I mean 100% healthy and ‘himself’ Reggie, can come back our D is a whole heck of a lot better. Though we’d still have 4 #6-7 dmen for 1 spot.

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Re: Sekera (Officially) put on LTIR [message #729208 is a reply to message #729163 ]	Wed, 30 January 2019 14:39

RDOilerfan
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Oscargasm wrote on Tue, 29 January 2019 11:29

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 29 January 2019 11:51

Oscargasm wrote on Tue, 29 January 2019 10:18

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 29 January 2019 09:27

Adam wrote on Mon, 28 January 2019 15:25

GabbyDugan wrote on Mon, 28 January 2019 14:46

So any updates on Sekera's health? Haven't heard a peep since it was announced back in December that he had stopped wearing the non-contact practice jerseys and willing to go to Bakersfield for some rehab work ( of course, that would mean he needs to be put on the roster, along with his salary cap hit. Is there any way the Oilers can manage that?)

Interesting that the IIHF World Championships will be held in Sekera's homeland of Slovakia May10-26 this year. I'm sure Slovakia would love to have Sekera in the tournament, and Sekera, health permitting, would probably want to play in the tournament (pending the Oilers getting past the first playoff round, of course).

More cryptic comments from Stauffer, saying today that if it didn't work, they could LTIR the rest of his contract...but that was in response to someone asking what happens if he doesn't come back. It's not really clear what's happening there.

I think the player wants to come back...can't see why he'd be skating line rushes etc. with the team if he didn't think his recovery was on track...

Does anyone know how LTIR works when it comes to whether a player is fit to play or not? What I mean is in the case of Sekera. He's rehabbing and skating with the team in and effort to come back but what if he's not able to keep up? I am sure his injury is healed and he can get to the point where he can go out on the ice and skate around really well so to the average person, he looks fine. But he might not be up to NHL level. So if he can only get to a level where he's a good enough skater to say play in some European league which would be a step or 2 below the NHL, is that grounds enough to keep him on LTIR?

I just wonder if that is true because when your listen to Stauffer talk, he never says Sekera could be done with hockey, he just keeps saying over and over again how he is not sure Sekera will ever be able to play at the NHL level again.

Not 100% on it, but wasn’t Lupul on LTIR with the Leafs and then there was a big thing how he wasn’t actually injured and the PA had an outside doc look at him to ‘determine’ he is still injured and unable to play?

If he's (Sekera) truly fit, in his mind, and wants to return but the Oilers say no, the PA and the League can step in, no? As long as he has some doctor somewhere, recognized by the NHL, say he’s fit?

Like I said, I don’t know 100% so flame away if I’m way off base. Just wanted to be included icon_biggrin

icon_biggrin

I don't know either. The reason I was asking is maybe in his mind, Sekera thinks he can play pro hockey but he might not be an NHLer anymore due to injury. There are lots of guys who are stars in European leagues but would be lucky to be a extra forward/dman in the NHL. Go watch the Spengler Cup and it's loaded with guys who would be really good AHLers but wouldn't crack an NHL line up full time.

You can blame a team for signing a guy for too much money and term thinking he will be a top 6 forward or top 4 dman but he ends up not being that. But in the case if Sekera. He was the Oilers best dman for a time and if he didn't get hurt, he'd easily be at least a decent second pairing dman.

Absolutely, he and Russell made a good pair tbh. He also allowed Nurse to be a little more sheltered for his development. Our D corps just hasn’t been the same since Getzlaf took Sek out (and obvious unfortunate Achilles injury the following year). Chia couldn’t replace him, whether it by ignorance hoping that Nurse would be able to fill the role or by sheer bad timing, though still didn’t appear to try to remedy the situation.

For all intents and purposes Klefbom is back now. If somehow Reggie, and I mean 100% healthy and ‘himself’ Reggie, can come back our D is a whole heck of a lot better. Though we’d still have 4 #6-7 dmen for 1 spot.

You can't count on Sekera playing in your top 4 after barely playing for 2 years? He only played 26 game last year and was lousy because he wasn't ready to come back and its next to impossible to catch up to everyone missing all that time. This season he will be lucky to play in 25 games that's it he comes back. 2 weeks in the AHL can't make up for almost 1.5 years of no games.

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Re: Sekera (Officially) put on LTIR [message #729164 is a reply to message #729158 ]	Tue, 29 January 2019 11:30

Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 29 January 2019 10:51

Oscargasm wrote on Tue, 29 January 2019 10:18

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 29 January 2019 09:27

Adam wrote on Mon, 28 January 2019 15:25

GabbyDugan wrote on Mon, 28 January 2019 14:46

So any updates on Sekera's health? Haven't heard a peep since it was announced back in December that he had stopped wearing the non-contact practice jerseys and willing to go to Bakersfield for some rehab work ( of course, that would mean he needs to be put on the roster, along with his salary cap hit. Is there any way the Oilers can manage that?)

Interesting that the IIHF World Championships will be held in Sekera's homeland of Slovakia May10-26 this year. I'm sure Slovakia would love to have Sekera in the tournament, and Sekera, health permitting, would probably want to play in the tournament (pending the Oilers getting past the first playoff round, of course).

More cryptic comments from Stauffer, saying today that if it didn't work, they could LTIR the rest of his contract...but that was in response to someone asking what happens if he doesn't come back. It's not really clear what's happening there.

I think the player wants to come back...can't see why he'd be skating line rushes etc. with the team if he didn't think his recovery was on track...

Does anyone know how LTIR works when it comes to whether a player is fit to play or not? What I mean is in the case of Sekera. He's rehabbing and skating with the team in and effort to come back but what if he's not able to keep up? I am sure his injury is healed and he can get to the point where he can go out on the ice and skate around really well so to the average person, he looks fine. But he might not be up to NHL level. So if he can only get to a level where he's a good enough skater to say play in some European league which would be a step or 2 below the NHL, is that grounds enough to keep him on LTIR?

I just wonder if that is true because when your listen to Stauffer talk, he never says Sekera could be done with hockey, he just keeps saying over and over again how he is not sure Sekera will ever be able to play at the NHL level again.

Not 100% on it, but wasn’t Lupul on LTIR with the Leafs and then there was a big thing how he wasn’t actually injured and the PA had an outside doc look at him to ‘determine’ he is still injured and unable to play?

If he's (Sekera) truly fit, in his mind, and wants to return but the Oilers say no, the PA and the League can step in, no? As long as he has some doctor somewhere, recognized by the NHL, say he’s fit?

Like I said, I don’t know 100% so flame away if I’m way off base. Just wanted to be included icon_biggrin

icon_biggrin

I don't know either. The reason I was asking is maybe in his mind, Sekera thinks he can play pro hockey but he might not be an NHLer anymore due to injury. There are lots of guys who are stars in European leagues but would be lucky to be a extra forward/dman in the NHL. Go watch the Spengler Cup and it's loaded with guys who would be really good AHLers but wouldn't crack an NHL line up full time.

You can blame a team for signing a guy for too much money and term thinking he will be a top 6 forward or top 4 dman but he ends up not being that. But in the case if Sekera. He was the Oilers best dman for a time and if he didn't get hurt, he'd easily be at least a decent second pairing dman.

There's some differences between Sekera and Lupul.

The Leafs never let Lupul come back and start skating with the team. That indicates a desire to return and a belief that he's close.

It was an open secret that Lupul could play and was being held out for two straight seasons. There was talk about it on Oilers Now the year before it became a big deal - all because of some tweets about Lupul which he responded to showing that he had been skiing, so wasn't quite as damaged as reports had suggested.

He failed the physical that the league forced on the team after that, but I think that Lamoriello had made clear that if he were to force his hand and come back, he'd be in the minors riding buses and maybe not playing too often.

Sekera's no-move clause prevents the Oilers from burying him. If he can get cleared to play, he's on the roster unless we convince him to waive that clause. He ain't doing that for the AHL. (Yes, I know that he's said he'd do a conditioning stint, but he still counts on the NHL roster if he does that).

The Oilers don't have a Lamoriello in their group. I don't think we can make Sekera disappear unless his body really has given up on him.

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Re: Sekera (Officially) put on LTIR [message #727178 is a reply to message #719408 ]	Fri, 11 January 2019 19:10

Oscargasm
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Was listening to Oilers Now today and Stauffer spent some time talking about Sekera and how he won’t be the same player he was and may not ever come back, as well as how since he’s been back skating, has no explosiveness. (To be expected with an Achilles injury like that though imo).

He may just be a LTIR candidate for beyond this season, possible this contract and his professional days could be over.

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Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty

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Re: Sekera (Officially) put on LTIR [message #727179 is a reply to message #727178 ]	Fri, 11 January 2019 19:15

inverno76
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Oscargasm wrote on Fri, 11 January 2019 19:10

Was listening to Oilers Now today and Stauffer spent some time talking about Sekera and how he won’t be the same player he was and may not ever come back, as well as how since he’s been back skating, has no explosiveness. (To be expected with an Achilles injury like that though imo).

He may just be a LTIR candidate for beyond this season, possible this contract and his professional days could be over.

I know we all complain about albatross contracts and how we’d like them to disappear, but I’ll truly feel bad if he’s done and can never return to the NHL. I loved him in our playoff year and would kill to have him back at 90% of his old self. Plus I don’t think the freed up money would be appropriated correctly in the coming years (As it stands now we have pissed it away).

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Re: Sekera (Officially) put on LTIR [message #727180 is a reply to message #727179 ]	Fri, 11 January 2019 19:16

Kr55
Messages: 9535
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

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inverno76 wrote on Fri, 11 January 2019 19:15

Oscargasm wrote on Fri, 11 January 2019 19:10

Was listening to Oilers Now today and Stauffer spent some time talking about Sekera and how he won’t be the same player he was and may not ever come back, as well as how since he’s been back skating, has no explosiveness. (To be expected with an Achilles injury like that though imo).

He may just be a LTIR candidate for beyond this season, possible this contract and his professional days could be over.

I know we all complain about albatross contracts and how we’d like them to disappear, but I’ll truly feel bad if he’s done and can never return to the NHL. I loved him in our playoff year and would kill to have him back at 90% of his old self. Plus I don’t think the freed up money would be appropriated correctly in the coming years (As it stands now we have pissed it away).

Can someone please fall into Getzlaf's knees? :)

We should sign Darcy Tucker to a 1 day contract for our next Ducks game.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Sekera (Officially) put on LTIR [message #727182 is a reply to message #727180 ]	Fri, 11 January 2019 19:35

inverno76
Messages: 2104
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

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Kr55 wrote on Fri, 11 January 2019 19:16

inverno76 wrote on Fri, 11 January 2019 19:15

Oscargasm wrote on Fri, 11 January 2019 19:10

Was listening to Oilers Now today and Stauffer spent some time talking about Sekera and how he won’t be the same player he was and may not ever come back, as well as how since he’s been back skating, has no explosiveness. (To be expected with an Achilles injury like that though imo).

He may just be a LTIR candidate for beyond this season, possible this contract and his professional days could be over.

I know we all complain about albatross contracts and how we’d like them to disappear, but I’ll truly feel bad if he’s done and can never return to the NHL. I loved him in our playoff year and would kill to have him back at 90% of his old self. Plus I don’t think the freed up money would be appropriated correctly in the coming years (As it stands now we have pissed it away).

Can someone please fall into Getzlaf's knees? :)

We should sign Darcy Tucker to a 1 day contract for our next Ducks game.

I was hoping that was Manning’s job.

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Re: Sekera (Officially) put on LTIR [message #727184 is a reply to message #727182 ]	Fri, 11 January 2019 22:01

stemhovlichski
Messages: 346
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Location: NSR

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inverno76 wrote on Fri, 11 January 2019 19:35

Kr55 wrote on Fri, 11 January 2019 19:16

inverno76 wrote on Fri, 11 January 2019 19:15

Oscargasm wrote on Fri, 11 January 2019 19:10

Was listening to Oilers Now today and Stauffer spent some time talking about Sekera and how he won’t be the same player he was and may not ever come back, as well as how since he’s been back skating, has no explosiveness. (To be expected with an Achilles injury like that though imo).

He may just be a LTIR candidate for beyond this season, possible this contract and his professional days could be over.

I know we all complain about albatross contracts and how we’d like them to disappear, but I’ll truly feel bad if he’s done and can never return to the NHL. I loved him in our playoff year and would kill to have him back at 90% of his old self. Plus I don’t think the freed up money would be appropriated correctly in the coming years (As it stands now we have pissed it away).

Can someone please fall into Getzlaf's knees? :)

We should sign Darcy Tucker to a 1 day contract for our next Ducks game.

I was hoping that was Manning’s job.

Hard to do from the press box unless he goes full Tonya.

Restored: "We're sucking hind banana here." - Pat Quinn, Jan 18, 2010

"...the Oilers have been rebuilding for so long that it’s hard not to be cynical." - NBC's Ryan Dadoun Jan 2, 2015

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Re: Sekera (Officially) put on LTIR [message #727200 is a reply to message #727179 ]	Sat, 12 January 2019 16:35

nullterm
Messages: 925
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Location: Port Moody, BC

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inverno76 wrote on Fri, 11 January 2019 18:15

Oscargasm wrote on Fri, 11 January 2019 19:10

Was listening to Oilers Now today and Stauffer spent some time talking about Sekera and how he won’t be the same player he was and may not ever come back, as well as how since he’s been back skating, has no explosiveness. (To be expected with an Achilles injury like that though imo).

He may just be a LTIR candidate for beyond this season, possible this contract and his professional days could be over.

I know we all complain about albatross contracts and how we’d like them to disappear, but I’ll truly feel bad if he’s done and can never return to the NHL. I loved him in our playoff year and would kill to have him back at 90% of his old self. Plus I don’t think the freed up money would be appropriated correctly in the coming years (As it stands now we have pissed it away).

This sucks. He was our best D man in a very long time and was a huge part in us getting to the playoffs. Plus he seemed like a genuinely good guy.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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Re: Sekera (Officially) put on LTIR [message #727202 is a reply to message #727200 ]	Sat, 12 January 2019 17:36

Oscargasm
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Registered: May 2009
Location: YEG

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nullterm wrote on Sat, 12 January 2019 17:35

inverno76 wrote on Fri, 11 January 2019 18:15

Oscargasm wrote on Fri, 11 January 2019 19:10

Was listening to Oilers Now today and Stauffer spent some time talking about Sekera and how he won’t be the same player he was and may not ever come back, as well as how since he’s been back skating, has no explosiveness. (To be expected with an Achilles injury like that though imo).

He may just be a LTIR candidate for beyond this season, possible this contract and his professional days could be over.

I know we all complain about albatross contracts and how we’d like them to disappear, but I’ll truly feel bad if he’s done and can never return to the NHL. I loved him in our playoff year and would kill to have him back at 90% of his old self. Plus I don’t think the freed up money would be appropriated correctly in the coming years (As it stands now we have pissed it away).

This sucks. He was our best D man in a very long time and was a huge part in us getting to the playoffs. Plus he seemed like a genuinely good guy.

Oh for sure, he played a huge role in that playoff year. Then Getzlaf started him on a path of pain, hasn’t been the same since. Then the unfortunate achilles injury. Feel for him. Our D definately would look better with a healthy Reggie.

Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
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Category 4 - Severely Musty
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Re: Sekera (Officially) put on LTIR [message #729193 is a reply to message #719408 ]	Wed, 30 January 2019 11:37

Oscargasm
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Registered: May 2009
Location: YEG

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In the latest 31 thoughts;

Andrej Sekera is getting close to a conditioning stint. Edmonton is going to have to clear some cap room.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/31-thoughts-three-key-de cisions-holding-nhl-trade-deadline-dominos/

Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
OG's #MUSTWIN Scale
Category 1 - Lightly Musty
Category 2 - Moderately Musty
Category 3 - Considerably Musty
Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty

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Re: Sekera (Officially) put on LTIR [message #729194 is a reply to message #729193 ]	Wed, 30 January 2019 11:42

Kr55
Messages: 9535
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

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Oscargasm wrote on Wed, 30 January 2019 11:37

In the latest 31 thoughts;

Andrej Sekera is getting close to a conditioning stint. Edmonton is going to have to clear some cap room.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/31-thoughts-three-key-de cisions-holding-nhl-trade-deadline-dominos/

Nuge for Strome, here we come!

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Sekera (Officially) put on LTIR [message #729201 is a reply to message #729193 ]	Wed, 30 January 2019 12:27

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3686
Registered: January 2016

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Oscargasm wrote on Wed, 30 January 2019 11:37

In the latest 31 thoughts;

Andrej Sekera is getting close to a conditioning stint. Edmonton is going to have to clear some cap room.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/31-thoughts-three-key-de cisions-holding-nhl-trade-deadline-dominos/

Well I hope I am surprised and Sekera can come back and at least be an effective 3rd pairing dman. I'd be surprised if he could even beat out Manning given how much time he has missed the last 2 years and Manning sucks but I guess anything is possible.

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Re: Sekera (Officially) put on LTIR [message #729211 is a reply to message #729201 ]	Wed, 30 January 2019 16:37

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3686
Registered: January 2016

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One thing that will have to happen is Sekera comes back is they will need to clear off cap space.

Talbot is #1 on my list. They made their choice on who to keep and quite frankly, I would pick Koskinen over Talbot too. It's been 2 years of Talbot being lousy. I hear the argument that the Oilers defense being bad is at fault. OK. I can buy that a bit. So, if the Oilers defense was better, what does that mean, an extra 10 points on the save percentage? So instead of .894, he’s. 904? Great. That's still below average NHL goaltending.

Next, I would trade Kassian. I like Kassian as a player but not for 1.95 mill. He's a 4th liner. Based on what he is, he should be making 1 mill less.

Next I would look at Rieder. When they signed him, I was happy with the contract. He had 4 consecutive years of being a solid NHL 3rd liner in all ways including production. He's got ZERO goals 9 assists in 36 games. If he is lucky, he might get 5.

I would look at Brodziak. I don't think he's been bad. He's a 4th line center. His contract isn't even that bad at just over 1 mill. If he had a couple of better linemates other than stone hands Kassian and Rieder, he might have more points. But is there a guy making league minimum who's younger and faster who could do the job? Probably.

I would look at Benning. Lowtide keeps beating the Benning drum like he is this awesome dman. Where? What am I missing here? I heard Lowtide and McCurdy talking about Benning and his "Numbers" today. How his numbers are good. What numbers? When he started, lots got all excited and thought this guy had an outside chance of being an all around top 4 guy. Sure, he made some mistakes, but he was young. Well apparently, he's peaked. The same mistakes he made his first year, he still makes. His skating is mediocre at best, even a bit slow. His passing isn't very good, he doesn't move the puck that well, defensively he's very inconsistent and offensively, he's got 10 pts in 42 games so he might get you high teens in points. The one plus is he's right handed. Other than that, he is a 3rd pairing guy who can do lots of things at times at a passable level but nothing very good. According to McCurdy apparently Benning doesn't get absolutely crushed and his "numbers " somehow come out even. Every time I watch him, he's doing some 10 bell dumb play but sure.
But if the criterial for your 3rd pairing is just to survive, you can find guys like Gravel making under 1 mill to do that. I would much rather give his spot to a guy who has a dimension. Like a right shooting PP specialist. So maybe you have to shelter his 5 on 5 mins but he is dynamite on your PP.

I am leaving off Spooner and Manning because I don't think you can trade them. I honestly do not mind Petrovic in a 3rd pairing role for the rest of the season so if you get rid of Benning for the rest of the season, he can have his spot. If you can trade Petrovic for a 3rd, go for it.

The Oilers need to get away from having guys on their team who are just out there to give McDavid or a Klefbom a breather while you pray they don’t give up a goal. The guys I listed above (except Talbot) are what I call roster spot holders. They go out there, they can play in the NHL and be OK at times but in reality, they don't do much most shifts other than give other guys a breather.

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Re: Sekera (Officially) put on LTIR [message #729215 is a reply to message #729211 ]	Wed, 30 January 2019 17:09

Adam
Messages: 6803
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Location: Edmonton, AB

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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 30 January 2019 16:37

One thing that will have to happen is Sekera comes back is they will need to clear off cap space.

Talbot is #1 on my list. They made their choice on who to keep and quite frankly, I would pick Koskinen over Talbot too. It's been 2 years of Talbot being lousy. I hear the argument that the Oilers defense being bad is at fault. OK. I can buy that a bit. So, if the Oilers defense was better, what does that mean, an extra 10 points on the save percentage? So instead of .894, he’s. 904? Great. That's still below average NHL goaltending.

Next, I would trade Kassian. I like Kassian as a player but not for 1.95 mill. He's a 4th liner. Based on what he is, he should be making 1 mill less.

Next I would look at Rieder. When they signed him, I was happy with the contract. He had 4 consecutive years of being a solid NHL 3rd liner in all ways including production. He's got ZERO goals 9 assists in 36 games. If he is lucky, he might get 5.

I would look at Brodziak. I don't think he's been bad. He's a 4th line center. His contract isn't even that bad at just over 1 mill. If he had a couple of better linemates other than stone hands Kassian and Rieder, he might have more points. But is there a guy making league minimum who's younger and faster who could do the job? Probably.

I would look at Benning. Lowtide keeps beating the Benning drum like he is this awesome dman. Where? What am I missing here? I heard Lowtide and McCurdy talking about Benning and his "Numbers" today. How his numbers are good. What numbers? When he started, lots got all excited and thought this guy had an outside chance of being an all around top 4 guy. Sure, he made some mistakes, but he was young. Well apparently, he's peaked. The same mistakes he made his first year, he still makes. His skating is mediocre at best, even a bit slow. His passing isn't very good, he doesn't move the puck that well, defensively he's very inconsistent and offensively, he's got 10 pts in 42 games so he might get you high teens in points. The one plus is he's right handed. Other than that, he is a 3rd pairing guy who can do lots of things at times at a passable level but nothing very good. According to McCurdy apparently Benning doesn't get absolutely crushed and his "numbers " somehow come out even. Every time I watch him, he's doing some 10 bell dumb play but sure.
But if the criterial for your 3rd pairing is just to survive, you can find guys like Gravel making under 1 mill to do that. I would much rather give his spot to a guy who has a dimension. Like a right shooting PP specialist. So maybe you have to shelter his 5 on 5 mins but he is dynamite on your PP.

I am leaving off Spooner and Manning because I don't think you can trade them. I honestly do not mind Petrovic in a 3rd pairing role for the rest of the season so if you get rid of Benning for the rest of the season, he can have his spot. If you can trade Petrovic for a 3rd, go for it.

The Oilers need to get away from having guys on their team who are just out there to give McDavid or a Klefbom a breather while you pray they don’t give up a goal. The guys I listed above (except Talbot) are what I call roster spot holders. They go out there, they can play in the NHL and be OK at times but in reality, they don't do much most shifts other than give other guys a breather.

Good luck trading Talbot. MAAAAAAYBE at the deadline to a playoff team with a really mediocre goalie - but show me who that team is? Most good teams now have two goalies, because without it, they don't make the post-season. And if the Oilers look to be making the playoffs, trading Talbot would be an incredibly risky decision. Suddenly it would be the Oilers as the team with the crappy backup, so if Koskinen falters or gets injured, our season gets sunk. And it sure ain't out of the realm of possibility that Koskinen falters...

Rieder is far behind many of the others here for me on the list of people I trade away. He's the one who looks most impacted by bad luck as opposed to declining or non-existing skill set. He's not old - just 26 and his shot generation (1.58 shots per game) while down from his career average of 2.02/game, is actually better than last year's rate (1.46/game). I think it's reasonable to expect some bounceback from Rieder, so trading him now will look pretty dumb if he rebounds to be a 10 goal, 30 point player again next year.

Worth noting, the acquisition of Spooner did not hurt the Oilers from a cap perspective. He's a wash with Strome since the Rangers are picking up almost a quarter of his salary. He's actually net positive for us now that he's in the minors, because a million bucks of his cap hit disappear.

I could see us doing something similar with Brandon Manning when Sekera comes back...especially now that Chiarelli's gone, so there's less concern about the egg on the face with that terrible deal.

I'd absolutely flush Kassian or Brodziak for the right deal - especially since it clears room for next year too. I'd be considering burying Brodziak if there's no other deal available too. Him and Manning in the minors probably opens up enough room...

I could see the team pulling the trigger on Benning. He's young enough and has shown enough offence that someone else would definitely take him...If he's not in the plans here, I could see that happening.

If the team falters in the next two weeks, you'll see a fire sale on anyone not in the plans for next year. If they win a bunch coming out of the break, it's going to make for a harder decision...

[Updated on: Wed, 30 January 2019 17:11]

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Re: Sekera (Officially) put on LTIR [message #729218 is a reply to message #729215 ]	Wed, 30 January 2019 17:40

Kr55
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I'd bet Strome could have been moved around the deadline. He was playing a reliable game at C. He could have been seen as a depth C pickup for a team going into the playoffs.

Spooner though, negative value, even if he was only a 2M cap hit.

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- MacT, 2015

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Re: Sekera (Officially) put on LTIR [message #729226 is a reply to message #729218 ]	Thu, 31 January 2019 08:49

RDOilerfan
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Registered: January 2016

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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 30 January 2019 17:40

I'd bet Strome could have been moved around the deadline. He was playing a reliable game at C. He could have been seen as a depth C pickup for a team going into the playoffs.

Spooner though, negative value, even if he was only a 2M cap hit.

I have heard it talked about a few times. Spooner for Gagner. Right now both guys are in the minors for each team. Both guys have 1 year left on their contract. With the Rangers retaining, Spooner makes 3.1 mill, Gagner makes 3.150. With a new GM for the Oilers, I don't know if Hitch would be back. A new GM would want his own coach. So maybe with a new coach, you can get something out of Spooner next year. He was a consecutive 40 pt guy 3 years in a row. Based on what he did for the Oilers, I personally don't see it but maybe. But if you made the trade, it does nothing cap wise but I just wonder if you get some kind of a remotely useful player for both teams. The Oilers don't have a 3rd line center thanks to the Strome trade.

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Re: Sekera (Officially) put on LTIR [message #729227 is a reply to message #729226 ]	Thu, 31 January 2019 09:33

GabbyDugan
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With regards to Benning, I think he is one of those NHL'ers who can be counted on as a third pairing RD, but he struggles when more is asked of him. Some players thrive on more ice time when injuries make it necessary to juggle the assignments and take on more complex responsibilities. I like Benning, but only as a third pairing guy who plays 15-18 minutes a night; too risky to ask more of him, even when the situation requires it.

With regards to Sekera, man, does that look like a mess. I don't know if Cam Lewis over at Oilers Nation has the situation laid out correctly, but it looks like the Oilers are going to have to make some serious adjustments when Sekera gets clearance to play.

https://oilersnation.com/2019/01/30/wwydw-fitting-andrej-sek era-under-the-salary-cap/

"The LTIR is a really, really complicated thing that allows teams to replace players who are going to miss a significant amount of time due to injury. Many of the intricacies of the LTIR aren’t even outlined in the NHL’s Collective Bargaining Agreement. Contrary to common belief, the LTIR isn’t just free money and it doesn’t just remove a player’s cap hit for a certain period of time. Instead, a team’s upper limit is adjusted based on the player’s salary cap."

My expectations for Sekera are fairly low, but I believe he at least should have the opportunity to find out if he has enough left in the tank to play in the NHL. It's not his fault the Oilers have spent so much of the salary cap and the LTIR salary relief on ridiculous contracts.

Looking forward to Klefbom coming back right after the break. He is pretty brittle, but when healthy he can generate some badly needed offense from the D and it seems like Larsson is completely lost without him. Nurse still hasn't found the consistency I expected of him as a second pairing guy but has shown flashes of quality. Kris Russell is as consistent as it gets on the Oiler defense, which is kind of scary in itself.

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Re: Sekera (Officially) put on LTIR [message #729229 is a reply to message #729227 ]	Thu, 31 January 2019 09:44

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3686
Registered: January 2016

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GabbyDugan wrote on Thu, 31 January 2019 09:33

With regards to Benning, I think he is one of those NHL'ers who can be counted on as a third pairing RD, but he struggles when more is asked of him. Some players thrive on more ice time when injuries make it necessary to juggle the assignments and take on more complex responsibilities. I like Benning, but only as a third pairing guy who plays 15-18 minutes a night; too risky to ask more of him, even when the situation requires it.

With regards to Sekera, man, does that look like a mess. I don't know if Cam Lewis over at Oilers Nation has the situation laid out correctly, but it looks like the Oilers are going to have to make some serious adjustments when Sekera gets clearance to play.

https://oilersnation.com/2019/01/30/wwydw-fitting-andrej-sek era-under-the-salary-cap/

"The LTIR is a really, really complicated thing that allows teams to replace players who are going to miss a significant amount of time due to injury. Many of the intricacies of the LTIR aren’t even outlined in the NHL’s Collective Bargaining Agreement. Contrary to common belief, the LTIR isn’t just free money and it doesn’t just remove a player’s cap hit for a certain period of time. Instead, a team’s upper limit is adjusted based on the player’s salary cap."

My expectations for Sekera are fairly low, but I believe he at least should have the opportunity to find out if he has enough left in the tank to play in the NHL. It's not his fault the Oilers have spent so much of the salary cap and the LTIR salary relief on ridiculous contracts.

Looking forward to Klefbom coming back right after the break. He is pretty brittle, but when healthy he can generate some badly needed offense from the D and it seems like Larsson is completely lost without him. Nurse still hasn't found the consistency I expected of him as a second pairing guy but has shown flashes of quality. Kris Russell is as consistent as it gets on the Oiler defense, which is kind of scary in itself.

I think of Benning as one of those players who is just there on your team. He's not a bad player, I wouldn't really call him a good player, he's just in the middle. Like I said, he's just there. When I look at the Oilers roster, I see a lot of players who are like Benning and just there. The odd game they can do something good for you but most of the time the goal for that player is they end up even. Nothing really good, nothing really bad, very little impact on the game.

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Re: Sekera (Officially) put on LTIR [message #729232 is a reply to message #729229 ]	Thu, 31 January 2019 11:26

overdue
Messages: 493
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[quote title=RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 31 January 2019 09:44]

[QUOTE]I think of Benning as one of those players who is just there on your team[QUOTE]

I was pretty critical of Benning earlier in the season but later saw that he can have games where his mistakes are minimal. He has offensive instincts which get him into trouble sometimes because he is pretty slow by NHL standards. You can never have enough defencemen because of the potential of injury but at the same time making cap space is important right now and I think Jones can fill his spot and then some. Good time for him to really put up some games and gain experience for next season. If they can trade Benning for a half decent return they should do it in my opinion. He is after all a borderline NHL player.

[Updated on: Thu, 31 January 2019 11:30]

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Re: Sekera (Officially) put on LTIR [message #729234 is a reply to message #729232 ]	Thu, 31 January 2019 11:40

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3686
Registered: January 2016

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[quote title=overdue wrote on Thu, 31 January 2019 11:26][quote title=RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 31 January 2019 09:44]

[QUOTE]I think of Benning as one of those players who is just there on your team

Quote:

I was pretty critical of Benning earlier in the season but later saw that he can have games where his mistakes are minimal. He has offensive instincts which get him into trouble sometimes because he is pretty slow by NHL standards. You can never have enough defencemen because of the potential of injury but at the same time making cap space is important right now and I think Jones can fill his spot and then some. Good time for him to really put up some games and gain experience for next season. If they can trade Benning for a half decent return they should do it in my opinion. He is after all a borderline NHL player.

I agree with you. If he is your #6, that's totally fine but if you can find away to upgrade him with a guy who does something different, I would look at it. When I look at the Oilers defense, I have:
Klefbom as the best. He is a good, all around guy.
Nurse as the second best. He is slightly below Klefbom bit I see him as a good, all around guy with maybe slightly less offense than Klef.
Larsson is 3rd best. He's a hard nosed, usually very reliable defensive dman. He's a 20 pt guy maybe.

Then there is a bit of a drop to Russell. He's a 4-5, OK in a bunch of areas, maybe 15-20 pt guy.

Then there is another drop and we get into the mosh pit. I would put Benning, Manning, Petrovic, Gravel in a group. Maybe one guy does something better than the other. Maybe Benning is the best of the bunch but in reality, you can pick any 2 and you will get some good moments, some passable moments and some bad moments. Points wise most of them are at best 10-15 point guys. Maybe Benning has the most points potential but it's what 15-17 pts maybe? So if you can get rid of a couple and bring in someone else who has more to offer, like a Jones in the near future, you are better off in my opinion.

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Re: Sekera (Officially) put on LTIR [message #729222 is a reply to message #729215 ]	Thu, 31 January 2019 08:30

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3686
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Adam wrote on Wed, 30 January 2019 17:09

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 30 January 2019 16:37

One thing that will have to happen is Sekera comes back is they will need to clear off cap space.

Talbot is #1 on my list. They made their choice on who to keep and quite frankly, I would pick Koskinen over Talbot too. It's been 2 years of Talbot being lousy. I hear the argument that the Oilers defense being bad is at fault. OK. I can buy that a bit. So, if the Oilers defense was better, what does that mean, an extra 10 points on the save percentage? So instead of .894, he’s. 904? Great. That's still below average NHL goaltending.

Next, I would trade Kassian. I like Kassian as a player but not for 1.95 mill. He's a 4th liner. Based on what he is, he should be making 1 mill less.

Next I would look at Rieder. When they signed him, I was happy with the contract. He had 4 consecutive years of being a solid NHL 3rd liner in all ways including production. He's got ZERO goals 9 assists in 36 games. If he is lucky, he might get 5.

I would look at Brodziak. I don't think he's been bad. He's a 4th line center. His contract isn't even that bad at just over 1 mill. If he had a couple of better linemates other than stone hands Kassian and Rieder, he might have more points. But is there a guy making league minimum who's younger and faster who could do the job? Probably.

I would look at Benning. Lowtide keeps beating the Benning drum like he is this awesome dman. Where? What am I missing here? I heard Lowtide and McCurdy talking about Benning and his "Numbers" today. How his numbers are good. What numbers? When he started, lots got all excited and thought this guy had an outside chance of being an all around top 4 guy. Sure, he made some mistakes, but he was young. Well apparently, he's peaked. The same mistakes he made his first year, he still makes. His skating is mediocre at best, even a bit slow. His passing isn't very good, he doesn't move the puck that well, defensively he's very inconsistent and offensively, he's got 10 pts in 42 games so he might get you high teens in points. The one plus is he's right handed. Other than that, he is a 3rd pairing guy who can do lots of things at times at a passable level but nothing very good. According to McCurdy apparently Benning doesn't get absolutely crushed and his "numbers " somehow come out even. Every time I watch him, he's doing some 10 bell dumb play but sure.
But if the criterial for your 3rd pairing is just to survive, you can find guys like Gravel making under 1 mill to do that. I would much rather give his spot to a guy who has a dimension. Like a right shooting PP specialist. So maybe you have to shelter his 5 on 5 mins but he is dynamite on your PP.

I am leaving off Spooner and Manning because I don't think you can trade them. I honestly do not mind Petrovic in a 3rd pairing role for the rest of the season so if you get rid of Benning for the rest of the season, he can have his spot. If you can trade Petrovic for a 3rd, go for it.

The Oilers need to get away from having guys on their team who are just out there to give McDavid or a Klefbom a breather while you pray they don’t give up a goal. The guys I listed above (except Talbot) are what I call roster spot holders. They go out there, they can play in the NHL and be OK at times but in reality, they don't do much most shifts other than give other guys a breather.

Good luck trading Talbot. MAAAAAAYBE at the deadline to a playoff team with a really mediocre goalie - but show me who that team is? Most good teams now have two goalies, because without it, they don't make the post-season. And if the Oilers look to be making the playoffs, trading Talbot would be an incredibly risky decision. Suddenly it would be the Oilers as the team with the crappy backup, so if Koskinen falters or gets injured, our season gets sunk. And it sure ain't out of the realm of possibility that Koskinen falters...

Rieder is far behind many of the others here for me on the list of people I trade away. He's the one who looks most impacted by bad luck as opposed to declining or non-existing skill set. He's not old - just 26 and his shot generation (1.58 shots per game) while down from his career average of 2.02/game, is actually better than last year's rate (1.46/game). I think it's reasonable to expect some bounceback from Rieder, so trading him now will look pretty dumb if he rebounds to be a 10 goal, 30 point player again next year.

Worth noting, the acquisition of Spooner did not hurt the Oilers from a cap perspective. He's a wash with Strome since the Rangers are picking up almost a quarter of his salary. He's actually net positive for us now that he's in the minors, because a million bucks of his cap hit disappear.

I could see us doing something similar with Brandon Manning when Sekera comes back...especially now that Chiarelli's gone, so there's less concern about the egg on the face with that terrible deal.

I'd absolutely flush Kassian or Brodziak for the right deal - especially since it clears room for next year too. I'd be considering burying Brodziak if there's no other deal available too. Him and Manning in the minors probably opens up enough room...

I could see the team pulling the trigger on Benning. He's young enough and has shown enough offence that someone else would definitely take him...If he's not in the plans here, I could see that happening.

If the team falters in the next two weeks, you'll see a fire sale on anyone not in the plans for next year. If they win a bunch coming out of the break, it's going to make for a harder decision...

Of the players I listed, I would probably have Rieder as my last choice to move because of the reasons you listed. I think there is a good chance he does bounce back next year. He has 4 yrs before this year of 12+ goals, 30 pts and as you said, he's not old. I'd even consider resigning him to another 1 yr deal. I would assume you could get him for less than 2 mill. I don't know now many teams would be lining up to get him and he wouldn't have much leverage to ask for more money from the Oilers.

When I made my list, I was looking at guys who I thought you could actually trade and who I thought they could replace with someone from the minors assuming all they get is a draft pick or a prospect. Like Kassian. As a 4th liner, he's fine but are you losing that much if Marody is in his spot? He's a point a game guy in the AHL which is pretty darn good. I don't have that answer because when he was up, he wasn't allowed to play but I don't think you are getting 1 mill more of player if he is playing in Kassian's spot.

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Re: Sekera (Officially) put on LTIR [message #729216 is a reply to message #729211 ]	Wed, 30 January 2019 17:15

Adam
Messages: 6803
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 30 January 2019 16:37

I would look at Benning. Lowtide keeps beating the Benning drum like he is this awesome dman. Where? What am I missing here? I heard Lowtide and McCurdy talking about Benning and his "Numbers" today. How his numbers are good. What numbers? When he started, lots got all excited and thought this guy had an outside chance of being an all around top 4 guy. Sure, he made some mistakes, but he was young. Well apparently, he's peaked. The same mistakes he made his first year, he still makes. His skating is mediocre at best, even a bit slow. His passing isn't very good, he doesn't move the puck that well, defensively he's very inconsistent and offensively, he's got 10 pts in 42 games so he might get you high teens in points. The one plus is he's right handed. Other than that, he is a 3rd pairing guy who can do lots of things at times at a passable level but nothing very good. According to McCurdy apparently Benning doesn't get absolutely crushed and his "numbers " somehow come out even. Every time I watch him, he's doing some 10 bell dumb play but sure.
But if the criterial for your 3rd pairing is just to survive, you can find guys like Gravel making under 1 mill to do that. I would much rather give his spot to a guy who has a dimension. Like a right shooting PP specialist. So maybe you have to shelter his 5 on 5 mins but he is dynamite on your PP.

Lowetide and others have a point...

If you look at old school +/-, Matt Benning has been a positive player in every year he's played, including +4 this year. He's got 10 points, behind only Nurse, Larsson and Klefbom (all who play much more than him).

I think there's evidence he's not a bad third pairing defenceman, and that where he has trouble is when he's asked to play far up the lineup. I don't think it's clear that Manning is a third pairing d-man, and Gravel doesn't have the offence to his game. Add to that that Benning is a right shot...

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: Sekera (Officially) put on LTIR [message #729219 is a reply to message #729216 ]	Wed, 30 January 2019 17:54

mightyreasoner
Messages: 508
Registered: October 2005
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

Adam wrote on Wed, 30 January 2019 17:15

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 30 January 2019 16:37

I would look at Benning. Lowtide keeps beating the Benning drum like he is this awesome dman. Where? What am I missing here? I heard Lowtide and McCurdy talking about Benning and his "Numbers" today. How his numbers are good. What numbers? When he started, lots got all excited and thought this guy had an outside chance of being an all around top 4 guy. Sure, he made some mistakes, but he was young. Well apparently, he's peaked. The same mistakes he made his first year, he still makes. His skating is mediocre at best, even a bit slow. His passing isn't very good, he doesn't move the puck that well, defensively he's very inconsistent and offensively, he's got 10 pts in 42 games so he might get you high teens in points. The one plus is he's right handed. Other than that, he is a 3rd pairing guy who can do lots of things at times at a passable level but nothing very good. According to McCurdy apparently Benning doesn't get absolutely crushed and his "numbers " somehow come out even. Every time I watch him, he's doing some 10 bell dumb play but sure.
But if the criterial for your 3rd pairing is just to survive, you can find guys like Gravel making under 1 mill to do that. I would much rather give his spot to a guy who has a dimension. Like a right shooting PP specialist. So maybe you have to shelter his 5 on 5 mins but he is dynamite on your PP.

Lowetide and others have a point...

If you look at old school +/-, Matt Benning has been a positive player in every year he's played, including +4 this year. He's got 10 points, behind only Nurse, Larsson and Klefbom (all who play much more than him).

I think there's evidence he's not a bad third pairing defenceman, and that where he has trouble is when he's asked to play far up the lineup. I don't think it's clear that Manning is a third pairing d-man, and Gravel doesn't have the offence to his game. Add to that that Benning is a right shot...

I don't hate Benning, but I do think he makes a little much for a third pairing guy.

I do believe they signed him and didn't replace Sekera adequately because they believed Benning would take that Top-4 spot; that failed miserably, to the point Caleb Jones played in that role instead.

Benning is a useful player and he's young enough and good enough that the Oilers can find somewhere to move him. But if you are looking to move cap, I think this is a good place. I think either Bear or Jones is likely to being what Benning does at a cheaper rate.

FWIW, RDOilers fan has a ship list similar to mine: Kassian, Russell, Rieder, Talbot, Spooner, Petrovic, Manning, Benning, Brodziak, Lucic, Gravel, Chiasson. Varying degrees to which I want to move them, and not all are tradable (Lucic, Manning), and some more likely to be moved at the draft than the deadline, but all are expendable and I'm doing what I can to get them off the books or get an asset before the contract expires.

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Re: Sekera (Officially) put on LTIR [message #729221 is a reply to message #729219 ]	Wed, 30 January 2019 19:24

Adam
Messages: 6803
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 30 January 2019 17:54

Adam wrote on Wed, 30 January 2019 17:15

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 30 January 2019 16:37

I would look at Benning. Lowtide keeps beating the Benning drum like he is this awesome dman. Where? What am I missing here? I heard Lowtide and McCurdy talking about Benning and his "Numbers" today. How his numbers are good. What numbers? When he started, lots got all excited and thought this guy had an outside chance of being an all around top 4 guy. Sure, he made some mistakes, but he was young. Well apparently, he's peaked. The same mistakes he made his first year, he still makes. His skating is mediocre at best, even a bit slow. His passing isn't very good, he doesn't move the puck that well, defensively he's very inconsistent and offensively, he's got 10 pts in 42 games so he might get you high teens in points. The one plus is he's right handed. Other than that, he is a 3rd pairing guy who can do lots of things at times at a passable level but nothing very good. According to McCurdy apparently Benning doesn't get absolutely crushed and his "numbers " somehow come out even. Every time I watch him, he's doing some 10 bell dumb play but sure.
But if the criterial for your 3rd pairing is just to survive, you can find guys like Gravel making under 1 mill to do that. I would much rather give his spot to a guy who has a dimension. Like a right shooting PP specialist. So maybe you have to shelter his 5 on 5 mins but he is dynamite on your PP.

Lowetide and others have a point...

If you look at old school +/-, Matt Benning has been a positive player in every year he's played, including +4 this year. He's got 10 points, behind only Nurse, Larsson and Klefbom (all who play much more than him).

I think there's evidence he's not a bad third pairing defenceman, and that where he has trouble is when he's asked to play far up the lineup. I don't think it's clear that Manning is a third pairing d-man, and Gravel doesn't have the offence to his game. Add to that that Benning is a right shot...

I don't hate Benning, but I do think he makes a little much for a third pairing guy.

I do believe they signed him and didn't replace Sekera adequately because they believed Benning would take that Top-4 spot; that failed miserably, to the point Caleb Jones played in that role instead.

Benning is a useful player and he's young enough and good enough that the Oilers can find somewhere to move him. But if you are looking to move cap, I think this is a good place. I think either Bear or Jones is likely to being what Benning does at a cheaper rate.

FWIW, RDOilers fan has a ship list similar to mine: Kassian, Russell, Rieder, Talbot, Spooner, Petrovic, Manning, Benning, Brodziak, Lucic, Gravel, Chiasson. Varying degrees to which I want to move them, and not all are tradable (Lucic, Manning), and some more likely to be moved at the draft than the deadline, but all are expendable and I'm doing what I can to get them off the books or get an asset before the contract expires.

Ask yourself though, is Jones (or Bear) actually ahead of Benning though? Both of them made many of the same errors that Benning does, but we tend to be forgiving of those things in a rookie season. Now, they may very well mature past those things and surpass Benning, but I don’t think it’s actually happened yet. I do agree that Benning, like almost anyone else in the big leagues who got signed by PC, is overpaid, but there’s a lot worse contracts on the Oilers, and I’m not confiemdent that the team doesn’t give the same money or more to Jones or Bear after next season - whether they’re full value for it or not.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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