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 Re: Why it isn't McDavid's Fault [message #816566 is a reply to message #816565 ]
Thu, 12 January 2023 10:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Babaganoosh2.0 is currently offline Babaganoosh2.0
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Dragon_Matt wrote on Thu, 12 January 2023 10:12

Anyone else notice on PP2 Nurse had the high slot and Bouchard was either on the far boards or at the top of the faceoff circle on his off hand negating any one timer attempt? Why weren't they trying to get a Bouch bomb off?


I don't know. I've seen this out of a lot of teams I've watched recently too. I always want to see a one timer option on both sides. This and this 1-3-1 Powerplay crap too. I just hate it. One bumble or blocked shot and it s a breakaway/ odd-man rush the other way.

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 Re: Why it isn't McDavid's Fault [message #816568 is a reply to message #816566 ]
Thu, 12 January 2023 10:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dragon_Matt is currently offline Dragon_Matt
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and we gave up 2 on the same PP

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 Re: Why it isn't McDavid's Fault [message #816567 is a reply to message #816563 ]
Thu, 12 January 2023 10:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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Rocksteady wrote on Thu, 12 January 2023 09:45

Adam wrote on Wed, 11 January 2023 15:56

I still think that "We miss Duncan Keith" is just the biggest myth going. The guy was atrocious in the playoffs. His lack of foot speed was constantly exposed and he was burned for many, many goals against. He's a minus player in that playoffs, and almost single-handedly lost us the one game against Los Angeles.

The defence has all underperformed this year, but I don't really think the difference maker is Keith, and I think the system flaws are still there whether he is or not. He might actually make it worse given that he can't skate any more.

If we REALLY believed we need his leadership, then they should just pay for a flight to get him to come hang out with the team and impart pearls of wisdom.

I do miss the cap credit we should have gotten from his retirement though. Stupid NHL.


We? We miss Duncan Keith? No... no no no my dear friend.. Evan Bouchard misses Duncan Keith, and you can tell by how Bouch has played to see this. He is lost without his mentor on the ice and while Keith the player wasn't the player he was in Chicago and he was all but used up when he got here, the knowledge the tutoring to Evan is sorely missed.

Evan misses Duncan Keith.

I'd even go as far as the entire defensive group misses Keith, he was a stabilizing force back there, and while he couldn't play the game AS WELL as he once did, he still had something the Oilers of today need.. stability.

No analytics or anything will chart the stability this guy brought to the team. We had one year of it, we needed more evidently.


It's a great narrative, but it's just a narrative. With Keith and Smith in the lineup, we were badly underperforming until February of last year. The same issues were there then too. Those two were then awful in the playoffs too.

It's not just Bouchard who's looked worse this year - it's the group. The systems that the Oilers are employing, and that the coaching group has stubbornly stuck to, do no favours to the defence. It makes them all look bad.

Remember Kulak through the end of the season and the playoffs? Limited Keith exposure, looked really solid. People thought it was great to sign him long-term as a top-four guy...annnnd big step back. Nurse, Ceci - both steps back. It's not like this is just Evan Bouchard.

Duncan Keith was not a big loss for the Oilers and should have been easily backfilled, especially with the tax relief that came with his and Smith's departures. The Oilers signed Ryan Murray and hoped that Broberg and Niemelainen were going to be the bandaid they'd need. Maybe that even works, if the system doesn't suck and make breakouts more difficult. We miss last year's Woodcroft much more than we do Duncan Keith...even if he would tell people to smarten up every so often.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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 Re: Why it isn't McDavid's Fault [message #816597 is a reply to message #816567 ]
Fri, 13 January 2023 08:59 Go to previous message
Rocksteady is currently offline Rocksteady
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Adam wrote on Thu, 12 January 2023 10:39

It's a great narrative, but it's just a narrative. With Keith and Smith in the lineup, we were badly underperforming until February of last year. The same issues were there then too. Those two were then awful in the playoffs too.

It's not just Bouchard who's looked worse this year - it's the group. The systems that the Oilers are employing, and that the coaching group has stubbornly stuck to, do no favours to the defence. It makes them all look bad.

Remember Kulak through the end of the season and the playoffs? Limited Keith exposure, looked really solid. People thought it was great to sign him long-term as a top-four guy...annnnd big step back. Nurse, Ceci - both steps back. It's not like this is just Evan Bouchard.

Duncan Keith was not a big loss for the Oilers and should have been easily backfilled, especially with the tax relief that came with his and Smith's departures. The Oilers signed Ryan Murray and hoped that Broberg and Niemelainen were going to be the bandaid they'd need. Maybe that even works, if the system doesn't suck and make breakouts more difficult. We miss last year's Woodcroft much more than we do Duncan Keith...even if he would tell people to smarten up every so often.


You're a great narrative! BOOOOOMMMM SICKKKKK BURN!!! Feel the heat! Crash (Let me be a child for once)

Well the stats show you're right, Keith wasn't good, he was washed up. I don't know if the stats show poise or abilities but I seem to recall Evan being more composed than this year, he's clearly struggling. Maybe it's a narrative in my head, but I do think Evan has slid back which is disappointing because he has loads of talent.

No one said losing Keith was a big loss but I still contend with the wrong thought that Keith is missed by this defensive group. It's wrong but I feel there is a intangible there that is missing.

I feel like I'm trolling but I'm not, just my thoughts as wrong as they may be.

We've been through coaches, this is Woodcroft's first full year as coach let's not pitch them into the sun when it's the dudes on the ice that make the magic.

I know.. I know... the system... the system.. yeah it doesn't appear to be very good, but is it better than Tip's? Is it better than MacLellan's? I don't know. Stats tell us in retrospect and I'm too lazy to look it up so I will defer to you good people to check that out.

The defensive group then isn't as comparable to the group we have now, but is it better?

Can we not all agree the swarm was the worst idea?!

The very definition of insanity is doing the exact same thing expecting different results.

Generally Disappointed.

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 Re: Why it isn't McDavid's Fault [message #816590 is a reply to message #816563 ]
Thu, 12 January 2023 21:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76 is currently offline inverno76
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Rocksteady wrote on Thu, 12 January 2023 09:45

Adam wrote on Wed, 11 January 2023 15:56

I still think that "We miss Duncan Keith" is just the biggest myth going. The guy was atrocious in the playoffs. His lack of foot speed was constantly exposed and he was burned for many, many goals against. He's a minus player in that playoffs, and almost single-handedly lost us the one game against Los Angeles.

The defence has all underperformed this year, but I don't really think the difference maker is Keith, and I think the system flaws are still there whether he is or not. He might actually make it worse given that he can't skate any more.

If we REALLY believed we need his leadership, then they should just pay for a flight to get him to come hang out with the team and impart pearls of wisdom.

I do miss the cap credit we should have gotten from his retirement though. Stupid NHL.


We? We miss Duncan Keith? No... no no no my dear friend.. Evan Bouchard misses Duncan Keith, and you can tell by how Bouch has played to see this. He is lost without his mentor on the ice and while Keith the player wasn't the player he was in Chicago and he was all but used up when he got here, the knowledge the tutoring to Evan is sorely missed.

Evan misses Duncan Keith.

I'd even go as far as the entire defensive group misses Keith, he was a stabilizing force back there, and while he couldn't play the game AS WELL as he once did, he still had something the Oilers of today need.. stability.

No analytics or anything will chart the stability this guy brought to the team. We had one year of it, we needed more evidently.


If this is true, and I’m not saying it’s not, then why are we not bringing in Keith instead of Coffey to work with the blue line. Hell, bring in every HOF defenseman who wants to coach D. If it’s a certain voice that works with the defence then you find it and you pay them.

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 Re: Why it isn't McDavid's Fault [message #816591 is a reply to message #816590 ]
Thu, 12 January 2023 22:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm is currently offline nullterm
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inverno76 wrote on Thu, 12 January 2023 20:23

Rocksteady wrote on Thu, 12 January 2023 09:45

Adam wrote on Wed, 11 January 2023 15:56

I still think that "We miss Duncan Keith" is just the biggest myth going. The guy was atrocious in the playoffs. His lack of foot speed was constantly exposed and he was burned for many, many goals against. He's a minus player in that playoffs, and almost single-handedly lost us the one game against Los Angeles.

The defence has all underperformed this year, but I don't really think the difference maker is Keith, and I think the system flaws are still there whether he is or not. He might actually make it worse given that he can't skate any more.

If we REALLY believed we need his leadership, then they should just pay for a flight to get him to come hang out with the team and impart pearls of wisdom.

I do miss the cap credit we should have gotten from his retirement though. Stupid NHL.


We? We miss Duncan Keith? No... no no no my dear friend.. Evan Bouchard misses Duncan Keith, and you can tell by how Bouch has played to see this. He is lost without his mentor on the ice and while Keith the player wasn't the player he was in Chicago and he was all but used up when he got here, the knowledge the tutoring to Evan is sorely missed.

Evan misses Duncan Keith.

I'd even go as far as the entire defensive group misses Keith, he was a stabilizing force back there, and while he couldn't play the game AS WELL as he once did, he still had something the Oilers of today need.. stability.

No analytics or anything will chart the stability this guy brought to the team. We had one year of it, we needed more evidently.


If this is true, and I’m not saying it’s not, then why are we not bringing in Keith instead of Coffey to work with the blue line. Hell, bring in every HOF defenseman who wants to coach D. If it’s a certain voice that works with the defence then you find it and you pay them.


Having someone in as a coach or advisor is nowhere near the same as sitting next to the guy on the bench, and skating on the same ice defending against the same guys as you.

Next time you see McDavid on the bench telling his wingers where he wants them to go, THAT is what our defence needs.

“Hey Bob, if that guy is coming down the middle you gotta force em wide, bud. I’ll take the shooter in the slot, you just take him to the corner.” And said with the confidence of rings and medals and what two decades of pro hockey at the top.

Even if what he’s saying is hockey 101 stuff, the fact you got a player of that pedigree, on the same bench, on the same ice, sweating and bleeding the same game, those words are 100x louder in your head than anything Coffey or Lidstrom or Orr could tell you in a suit n tie in a board room.

… and from watching our defence this season, they need to hear a lot of Hockey 101 and pay attention to it. Nurse alone might even be worth his $9 mil if he just stuck to the basics and did them correctly with his raw athleticism.

[Updated on: Thu, 12 January 2023 22:37]

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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