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Re: D. Holloway [message #800100 is a reply to message #800090 ]	Fri, 18 February 2022 12:48

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3696
Registered: January 2016

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Adam wrote on Fri, 18 February 2022 11:37

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 18 February 2022 10:23

K.McC#24 wrote on Thu, 17 February 2022 17:15

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 17 February 2022 12:57

Adam wrote on Thu, 17 February 2022 12:43

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 17 February 2022 12:35

Adam wrote on Thu, 17 February 2022 11:33

Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 17 February 2022 03:16

K.McC#24 wrote on Wed, 16 February 2022 23:27

Oscargasm wrote on Wed, 16 February 2022 20:45

Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 16 February 2022 20:24

Holloway has gone stone cold the last few games.. maybe don't call him up just yet..

Ya, give the kid time.

Hopefully Anderson is good at developing players down there, Their best staff are no longer there.

Thats my worry.
I'd actually spend almost the same on coaching salary down there as up with the Oilers.. coaching down there might even be more important.. they keep saying the NHL is not a development league.. and its not.. your most important assets are the draft picks that need to develop and play NHL.. while still being able to pay ELC.

I had zero expectations that the kid, just out of his teens, was going to be an NHL player this year. Development isn't a straight road, and he'll have some ups and downs. This is his first year as a pro, and he's coming off a major injury. Count this as development time, and worry more about his results next year.

There's some comments on Holloway's performance from @bcurlock - the same guy Gregor steals his info on the Condors from. He's saying that Sceviour and Malone are playing with Holloway, and they just aren't converting on the opportunities he's creating.

Quote:

bcurlock@bcurlockI got some DMs about Holloway not scoring again. He was good last night when he played. Regrettably the Condors took 15 PIMs. He doesn't kill penalties.

He shouldn't be playing with Malone/Sceviour. He creates, it dies with them a lot.

But every game, he does this 6-8 times.
***video of Holloway on the cycle***

bcurlock@bcurlock
Honestly folks, the only people that are going to love his game more than the fans every night are 97, 29 and 93.

bcurlock@bcurlock·
Yeah Malone and Sceviour aren't great fits. He puts the puck in good spots for them and it dies.

Holloway will bring a 200 foot game. Another thing I am noticing is that despite being LW, the Condors seem to be ok with him playing the C position in his own zone at times.

You literally said at 20 yrs old playing a way harder position than forward that Broberg is a draft fail because the Oilers didn't take the shiny toy that was Zegras. Then here you say that players don't develop in a straight line and at just barely out of his teens, we shouldn't be expecting Holloway to be an NHLer this year.

For the record, this is Broberg's first year playing hockey in North American which is an adjustment for European players. Broberg turns 21 in June 25, Holloway turns 21 in Sept 23. So Broberg is a bust because he's 3 months older than Holloway.

A couple of things here:

First and most importantly, I wasn't comparing Broberg to Holloway, nor was I suggesting that Broberg isn't a real NHL prospect. I was specifically comparing him to the guy picked one pick after him. The guy who all the ratings had projected as the better bet, but who the Oilers decided to bypass because a Swedish defenceman was too hard to pass up.

If you did want to compare them, draft position and draft year matters. Broberg was a top-ten draft pick, and picked a year earlier. He should be ahead of Holloway on both counts. He is too - he's played big minutes in the AHL and done pretty well and he's had a couple tastes of NHL hockey too. So both players are on track as prospects.

That doesn't mean that Broberg was the right pick in that spot though.

Worth noting, when we're having a similar conversation about Bourgault in a couple of years, it's not because I hate him or don't think he's a real prospect, but because the Oilers traded back and left Jesper Wallstedt to be the next great Minnesota Wild goalie.

The whole point of my reply was you are looking at Zegra right now and comparing him to Broberg. Right now, does Zegras look great with his lacrosse goals, you bet. He sure looks flashy and talented, no doubt about it. But in a year or 2 from now, if Broberg lives up to his potential and he's in the Oilers second pair rushing and moving pucks and giving you 20 mins a night, that pick will look pretty good in my opinion.

Weren't you mere days ago directly comparing Niemelainen to Benson, or am I misremembering?

Not even close to the same context. Broberg is 20 and can't even get a drink legally in the US, Benson and Niemelainen will both be 24 yrs old in March and June of this year. That's 3 more years of pro hockey experience, 3 more years of being in the gym working out as a pro. 3 more years of their body just physically maturing. 3 more years of them maturing mentally. That's a big deal.

Plus Benson if from Edmonton, did all his junior in Vancouver and has 3 years in Bakersfield. Niemelainen did 2 years of junior in the OHL, plus this is his second year of hockey in North America. So they know the north American game, know the culture and are accustom to things. Broberg has been in North America living and playing hockey for what, maybe 6 months? So he's learning the North American game which is different both in style and the physical ice size than in Sweden, he's learning the culture and how to live in North America.

So I don't see the comparison what so ever. The conversation was Broberg being a bust over Zegras at 20 yrs old. Zegras is a born and raised American, playing in an American City so there is next to zero adjustment for him both in lifestyle, culture and how the game is played for the most part. Yes the difference between college and pro is different in just the amount of talent he goes up against but the style of play of the game and the ice size is not that dramatically different. Plus like I said, a forward has it easier than a dman. When I compared Niemelainen to Benson, I was in a debate with someone about contributing and making plays regardless of ice time or opportunity. When you get the call, you have to find a way to contribute.

So as I said, and people are free to disagree with me, I think it's pretty premature to decide that Broberg is a complete bust because at 20 with 6 months of time in North America, he's not dominating the league. Does Zegras look like a good offensive player right now, sure he does. DO I think he will be a real good offensive guy for the Ducks? Most likely. But in a year or 2 from now if Broberg looks like another Caleb Jones, a dman who sure looks like he has lots of tools but can't put it together, then absolutely the pick will be a bad one. But if Broberg continues on the path he looks like he's on and turn into a solid, big minute playing, top 4 dman, it will look like a pretty darn good pick and I will take that all day long because I have watched for many years and this goes back a long time how the Oilers had lots of flash and dash like a Zegras in their line up but their defense sucked. They sure could score some pretty goals but they lost over and over again.

So I will gladly miss out on seeing Zegras score a couple lacrosse goals a year wearing an Oilers uniform if Broberg is out there 20+ mins a night doing his thing but it's too early to tell yet if that will be the case. FIngers crossed.

Exactly ZERO people have called Broberg a bust.

I'm not sure I want to put the work in to explain everything to you if you can't be bothered to read it and learn.

The debate is whether the Oilers made a mistake choosing Broberg over Zegras. I don't think anyone believes Broberg doesn't have the tools to make the NHL, but the GM made a big bet choosing Broberg over Zegras who was rated higher across the board. Basically, everyone but the Oilers thought Zegras was better, and the early returns suggest that they were correct.

Broberg needs to be a top flight defenceman anchoring a 1st pairing in order to be comparable to a top end forward, which is what Zegras is looking like. If Broberg becomes a good 2nd pairing guy, then we lost Holland's bet.

OK. Then.

You said the GMs "blew it" called it a "draft fail" in 1 post. Then followed it up with saying it was a GM blunder. But you are right, you didn't specifically say bust. You said multiple statements saying similar things but you didn't use that specific word. I should have been very, very specific with my statement, my mistake.