Kr55 wrote on Wed, 05 April 2017 16:51

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 05 April 2017 16:38 Scott Cullen. Big time TSN Advanced stats guy and kind of an Oiler hater was debating with some Oiler fans last night about how bad the Hal trade still is. Some of the things he said was the impact of Hall on the Devils was way, way, way more this season than Larsson on the Oilers. If you look at the Devils this season after adding Hall. They are way worse defensively this year than last year. They are going to finish way less in overall points than they were last year. Offensively. Hall was brought in to boost the offense. With 3 games left, the Devils have scored 8 goals less than they did all last season. Given they are scoring at a 2.22 goals per game clip this season. Just to tie last years total, they are going to have to score higher than their season average. Oh yea, Hall's made a BIG difference. Larsson was brought in to be a big, physical, hard to play against, right shot dman to help shore up the defense. Larsson is mean, nasty, brutal to play against, has 243 hits in 76 games and is a plus 18. In addtion, the Oilers have improved by 71 goals. They were -42 last year and +29 this year. Now its not all Larsson but he has done more than what he was brought in to do. Best thing said. Matt Henderson, Oilers blogger and Hall trade hater chimed in. "Hall is the best player on the Devils, Larsson is 4th in ice time." Larsson gets no PP time, while Sekara and Klefbom get lots. Take that into account and their mins are almost the same. If you go look at the Devils line up. Saying Hall is the best player isn't saying much. Their line up is brutal. If your best player by a good margin is a 1-dimensional winger, I think your team is gonna suck :) I think the real debate is how much the oilers actually miss Hall. Hall was really having trouble clicking with anyone for a year plus until he and Drai meshed for a couple months. Drai really saved Hall last season from having 3 ~60 point pace seasons in a row, which, adjusted for his usual 10 or so games of injury a season, make him a guy that brings 50-60 points to your team a year when getting all the prime offensive ice time. I'm only taking the last 3 years into account of course. He managed 80 in his offensive productivity prime. But, he said himself last year, he has started playing more cautious after his last injury a few years ago, and, IMO, he really needs to be taking the big risks with his body to generate the chances he needs to be an elite contributor on paper. I honestly don't think he would have helped us that much this year. Maybe if McDavid got injured, but that didn't happen, and next year hopefully Pulju can be a contributor that could help in such a situation. And lots of discussion here about how Nuge has been held down, how many more points would Nuge/Ebs put up if they got all that prime ice time McDavid's line gets? We have lots of forwards in this organisation, and there is only so much ice time to go around, and so much time where you're leaning offensively. We have spent probably double the amount of time this year as last season with a lead, that lends itself to more defensive play, and McLellan really does coach players to bottle up with a lead. We don't play all out all the time offensive hockey like the Pens do. Maybe some of us with we did, and maybe Hall could have helped more in that kind of game plan, but that's a whole other discussion then, because they we would have to dump McLellan too and find another coach to have created the environment where Hall could have actually provided some incremental improvement (and maybe he still wouldn't have in that case compared to the guys we already have). Many factors to consider, but in my head, I honestly don't think we miss Hall much. The glut of forwards on the team made it possible to move him in a deal we lost on paper, but one that has let us play the way McLellan wants the team to play and succeed, and the results have been surprisingly good. And the loss, I think the value of Larsson and Hall will be getting closer each year, and eventually NJD will just having nothing to show for the trade aside from a pick/prospect when they have to trade pending UFA Hall, and I bet we end up extending Larsson. And of course there is the whole personality thing, and keeping a healthy dressing room that we have have based on personal opinion and hearsay, but I think I've encouraged that kind of stuff to death on here already :) Interesting stat on the topic of playing with a lead. Last season we played with a lead 5v5 for 843 mins. we allowed 3.42 goals against per 60 mins in that situation, by far the worst in the NHL. Next closest was Carolina who let in 3.00 GA/60. This year, we've played with the lead for 1257 mins 5v5 (so 67% more time than last year at 5v5). And we are 3rd best now at not allowing goals, we have allowed 1.91 GA/60 this year with a lead 5v5.

I agree with you. So when the season ends and you are near last in the league AGAIN. Chia and McLellan sit down and talk about the season and what went right, what went wrong, who kept playing, who quit, who's a debbie downer in the room and what you need to bring in to improve. So the first thing McLellan says to Chia is "My defense sucks. I can't win with it." Chia agrees and says he's been trying to get someone but nobody wants our guys, except maybe Hall or Drai or Nurse. Chia doesn't want to Drai or Nurse and he'd rather not trade Hall.

Then they go over who they have on defense worth keeping. They list Sekera & Klefbom. Nurse is so young but they see something. Davidson is maybe a player but hard to say. Gryba was decent in the 3rd pairing but he's a UFA but wants to come back badly. So maybe they have 3 dmen you can confidently start out next season. You can bring back Gryba in a 6-7 role. McLellen says I want nothing to do with Fayne, he's going to have to have one hell of an offseason and camp because I don't think I can use him. So Chi says. "So we basically have no one on the right side for next year." So then Chia says "Well I might be able to sign 1 UFA but anymore than that, it's going to be tough." He mentions Demers to McLellen who coached and McLellan is luke warm to him.

So then they look at their forwards. Yak is worth nothing. Nuge or Eberle are going to need another dman to go with them to get anyone remotely decent back and they don't have enough dmen to begin with so they can't trade one. They aren't trading a 21 yr old big center in Drai. But I do get calls on Hall frequently but I don't want to trade him. They then they say, "could we even do it if we absolutely had too?" So they make lines without Hall.

McLellan says Nuge, Eberle & Pouliot played well together. Pouliot had 19 in 58, then 14 in 55 this year. IF the guy could stay remotely healthy, he'd have back to back 20+ goal years.

Then McLellan says. "Hall can't play with Connor. I tried. They look like crap in practice and even worse in games. Hall won't give up the damn puck to McDavid and he doesn't go to the right spots."

Then he goes. "Well Maroon looked good with McDavid. He had 8 goals and 14 pts here. All he does is get the pucks to Connor as fast as he can and goes to the net and Connor finds him. He's got pretty good hands. If the guy would just drop some pounds, he might do alright.

McLellan goes I really like Drai. He might have the second best hockey sense and vision on the team behind Connor and he's lethal on the backhand. Plus I loved having that extra center on my top line like I did with Pavelski." They count them up. "That's 6 guys and we don't have Hall down yet."

Chia goes. "Well you know, Milan and I still keep in touch. When I got this job he sent me a text to congratulate me and said how much he enjoyed playing on my team. I kept tabs on him in LA and asked how he liked playing in the West. He said he liked being closer to home. I know he's watching Connor and has asked me how the new building looks. I haven't talked anything about contract but I have it from good sources he'd like to stay in LA because its California but he doubts it will happen."

McLellan "You actually think you can get Milan?"

Chi "Well its free agency so nothing is a guarantee but Yes I seriously do. I have a good idea about the dollars he wants. He's been asking Dean for 6, the problem is he wants long term and Dean can't give it to him. Deans offering 4, maybe 5, Milan wants 7 yrs. So if I give Milan the term he wants, he will come. I am pretty confident in 5 yrs, it's the 6 and 7 I am not 100% on.

McLellan "If you can get Milan in here and a couple of decent dmen in here, with Connor, we can win in 2 years and maybe win a couple."

Chia "So if we can get Milan, where do we fit Hall?"

They both look at each other and point to the empty defense spots on the right side in the depth chart.

Obviously I am not in the room but that's how I think it roughly went down and how they came to trade Hall. I still think Chia from the end of the season and into June still worked the phones to try and not trade Hall, you don't offer up your best chip right off the bat. But when the costs to get even a remotely decent dman kept coming back as Eberle ++ or Nuge ++ for the teams that would even remotely entertain those players, most weren't. He had to shift gears.

[Updated on: Thu, 06 April 2017 09:24]

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

[Updated on: Thu, 06 April 2017 11:13]

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

[Updated on: Mon, 24 April 2017 10:56]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000