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Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743625 is a reply to message #743622 ]	Mon, 30 September 2019 17:17

Skookum Jim
Messages: 3869
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

3 Cups

GabbyDugan wrote on Mon, 30 September 2019 15:27

Lines from Monday's skate,

Jurco - McDavid - Neal

Nygard - Draisaitl - Kassian

Granlund - Nugent-Hopkins - Chiasson

Khaira - Cave - Archibald

Haas and P. Russell are rotating in.

Defence:

Klefbom - Bear

Nurse - Larsson

Russell - Benning

Goal:

Smith, Koskinen

Fine and dandy, but I still don't see Neal or Jurco staying long riding shotgun for McDavid. Nor do I see Draisaitl staying at Center very long. I'm guessing he will be back with McDavid before the second period of Game 1 is over; maybe Kassian, too. I'm also guessing Klefbom and Nurse might change places before too long. I hope Bear can take advantage of this opportunity.

Given his family situation with his wife being a doctor, I'm not certain Gagner will head to Bakersfield long term, and maybe not at all.

Go Oilers!!!!. Let the games begin.

Poor Nuge...

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743581 is a reply to message #743579 ]	Mon, 30 September 2019 10:11

CrudeRemarks
Messages: 1698
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton

1 Cup

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 30 September 2019 10:03

Gagner on waivers. WOW!

Nothing to see here. I’m sure we will hear shortly that Eberle and Strome are on waivers too.

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.

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Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743582 is a reply to message #743579 ]	Mon, 30 September 2019 10:12

Kr55
Messages: 9535
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 30 September 2019 10:03

Gagner on waivers. WOW!

Guessing it's just a long shot to see if anyone will pick up his cap hit. He's probably on the NHL roster if he clears.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743585 is a reply to message #743582 ]	Mon, 30 September 2019 10:17

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3686
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

One positive is it appears that contracts aren't playing a factor in the decisions. It would have been easy to keep Manning on the roster as the #7 because of the contract. It would have been easy to keep Gagner because of the contract. But they went with guys who were better.

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Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743587 is a reply to message #743582 ]	Mon, 30 September 2019 10:19

Adam
Messages: 6806
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 30 September 2019 10:12

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 30 September 2019 10:03

Gagner on waivers. WOW!

Guessing it's just a long shot to see if anyone will pick up his cap hit. He's probably on the NHL roster if he clears.

I hope you're right. It would be peak Oilers to keep Colby Cave over Gagner. Only one of those guys can produce at the NHL level. I'd rather a fourth line with Gagner than Cave.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743594 is a reply to message #743587 ]	Mon, 30 September 2019 10:49

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3686
Registered: January 2016

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Lagesson is going down as well. Persson must be close.

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Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743600 is a reply to message #743582 ]	Mon, 30 September 2019 12:43

Skookum Jim
Messages: 3869
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

3 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 30 September 2019 09:12

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 30 September 2019 10:03

Gagner on waivers. WOW!

Guessing it's just a long shot to see if anyone will pick up his cap hit. He's probably on the NHL roster if he clears.

I heard they have to do some roster manipulations so they can make room to put K. Brodziak on the active roster at the start in order to activate his LTIR and free up his cap space.

[Updated on: Mon, 30 September 2019 13:56]

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743606 is a reply to message #743600 ]	Mon, 30 September 2019 13:32

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3686
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Tippett said when it came to Gagner. For the top 6, they wanted guys who push the pace. Gagner does not do that. For the bottom 6, they want guys than can defend and be on the PK. Something Gagner doesn't do either.

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Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743611 is a reply to message #743606 ]	Mon, 30 September 2019 14:03

mightyreasoner
Messages: 508
Registered: October 2005
Location: Edmonton

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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 30 September 2019 13:32

Tippett said when it came to Gagner. For the top 6, they wanted guys who push the pace. Gagner does not do that. For the bottom 6, they want guys than can defend and be on the PK. Something Gagner doesn't do either.

Yeah, I read that, which I guess would explain them playing RNH in the bottom-six. icon_wink

icon_wink

No here's the thing: unless you are planning on spending most of the game shorthanded, you don't need 8 penalty killers. Right now they have Sheahan, Khaira, Kassian, RNH, Archibald, Cave/Haas all who kill penalties. Plus McDavid and Draisaitl if you are behind. That's more than they need.

Right now, the PP2 unit consists of Jurco, Neal, Nygard, Bear, and Nurse. No one who has played center. No one who has can run the powerplay. And a total of 0 NHL last year by two of the three forwards. This team needs secondary scoring.

Anyways, Tippett also said he expect Gagner to get games with the club this year, so if sounds like they are hoping he reports to the AHL. We will see.

Finally, Chiasson also does not have speed or kill penalties and they actually chose to re-sign him this summer. I'd take Gagner over Chiasson is all things were equal, but when you have one guy (Gagner) locked up already and one as a UFA, it made no sense. The Chiasson deal every single day is proving unnecessary and problematic, and probably is costing them in cap space as Gagner could easily have played in his spot and probably done a few more things that Chiasson cannot (i.e. QB a PP).

So I don't totally buy what Tippett is selling here.

[Updated on: Mon, 30 September 2019 14:22]

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Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743612 is a reply to message #743611 ]	Mon, 30 September 2019 14:08

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3686
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

mightyreasoner wrote on Mon, 30 September 2019 14:03

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 30 September 2019 13:32

Tippett said when it came to Gagner. For the top 6, they wanted guys who push the pace. Gagner does not do that. For the bottom 6, they want guys than can defend and be on the PK. Something Gagner doesn't do either.

Yeah, I read that, which I guess would explain them playing RNH in the bottom-six. icon_wink

icon_wink

No here's the thing: unless you are planning on spending most of the game shorthanded, you don't need 8 penalty killers. Right now they have Sheahan, Khaira, Kassian, RNH, Archibald, Cab/Haas all who kill penalties. Plus McDavid and Draisaitl if you are behind. That's more than they need.

Right now, the PP2 unit consists of Jurco, Neal, Nygard, Bear, and Nurse. No one who has played center. No one who has can run the powerplaum And a total of 0 NHL last year by two of the three forwards. This team needs secondary scoring.

Anyways, Tippett also said he expect Gagner to get games with the club this year, so if sounds like they are hoping he reports to the AHL. We will see.

Finally, Chiasson also does not have speed or kill penalties and they actually chose to re-sign him this summer. I'd take Gagner over Chiasson is all things were equal, but when you have one guy (Gagner) locked up already and one as a UFA, it made no sense. The Chiasson deal every single day is proving unnecessary and problematic, and probably is coating them in cap space as Gagner could easily have played in his spot and probably done a few more things that Chiasson cannot (i.e. QB a PP).

So I don't totally buy what Tippett is selling here.

I guess we will have to disagree on Gagner. Chiasson is bigger than Gagner. While not a good skater, he moves better than Gagner. He's better defensively than Gagner. He scored 22 goals last year, Gagner had 6. If you needed to a player on the ice in the dying seconds to protect a lead, I would take Chiasson any day over Gagner.

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Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743650 is a reply to message #743612 ]	Tue, 01 October 2019 11:55

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3686
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Lines today.
Nygard - McDavid - Neal
Leon - Nuge - Kassian
Granlund - Haas - Chiasson
Khaira - Cave - Archibald.

NUrse - Larsson
Klefbom - Bear
Russell - Benning

I got to say, I am really liking the lines all things considered with what they have. I have said it many times, the Oilers don't take advantage of having McDavid who can make lesser players better. I think these 2 to lines finally take advantage of that and it makes a decent second line as well.

Once Sheahan comes back, that can take Cave out and they won't be too bad.

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Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743651 is a reply to message #743650 ]	Tue, 01 October 2019 12:05

Adam
Messages: 6806
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 01 October 2019 11:55

Lines today.
Nygard - McDavid - Neal
Leon - Nuge - Kassian
Granlund - Haas - Chiasson
Khaira - Cave - Archibald.

NUrse - Larsson
Klefbom - Bear
Russell - Benning

I got to say, I am really liking the lines all things considered with what they have. I have said it many times, the Oilers don't take advantage of having McDavid who can make lesser players better. I think these 2 to lines finally take advantage of that and it makes a decent second line as well.

Once Sheahan comes back, that can take Cave out and they won't be too bad.

Well, I really like at least three of the forwards anyhow.

That 3rd and 4th line is likely to give last year's depth lines a run for their money as the lowest producing depth lines in recent NHL history.

The defence - well, here's hoping Larsson and Nurse just didn't care about pre-season.

And goalie...good lord, that's so bad. The saddest thing is that there have been multiple options better than Mike Smith available on the waiver wire over the last couple weeks, but sadly we have two goalies with no-move clauses...

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743656 is a reply to message #743651 ]	Tue, 01 October 2019 12:13

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3686
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Adam wrote on Tue, 01 October 2019 12:05

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 01 October 2019 11:55

Lines today.
Nygard - McDavid - Neal
Leon - Nuge - Kassian
Granlund - Haas - Chiasson
Khaira - Cave - Archibald.

NUrse - Larsson
Klefbom - Bear
Russell - Benning

I got to say, I am really liking the lines all things considered with what they have. I have said it many times, the Oilers don't take advantage of having McDavid who can make lesser players better. I think these 2 to lines finally take advantage of that and it makes a decent second line as well.

Once Sheahan comes back, that can take Cave out and they won't be too bad.

Well, I really like at least three of the forwards anyhow.

That 3rd and 4th line is likely to give last year's depth lines a run for their money as the lowest producing depth lines in recent NHL history.

The defence - well, here's hoping Larsson and Nurse just didn't care about pre-season.

And goalie...good lord, that's so bad. The saddest thing is that there have been multiple options better than Mike Smith available on the waiver wire over the last couple weeks, but sadly we have two goalies with no-move clauses...

Well thanks for bringing your gloom and doom Adam. Why not just go player by player and tell us why they suck. So since you think the bottom 6 will be pushing for another NHL record. Who do you think will score zero goals in almost 70 games? That's pretty hard to do.

[Updated on: Tue, 01 October 2019 12:17]

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Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743659 is a reply to message #743656 ]	Tue, 01 October 2019 12:25

Adam
Messages: 6806
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 01 October 2019 12:13

Adam wrote on Tue, 01 October 2019 12:05

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 01 October 2019 11:55

Lines today.
Nygard - McDavid - Neal
Leon - Nuge - Kassian
Granlund - Haas - Chiasson
Khaira - Cave - Archibald.

NUrse - Larsson
Klefbom - Bear
Russell - Benning

I got to say, I am really liking the lines all things considered with what they have. I have said it many times, the Oilers don't take advantage of having McDavid who can make lesser players better. I think these 2 to lines finally take advantage of that and it makes a decent second line as well.

Once Sheahan comes back, that can take Cave out and they won't be too bad.

Well, I really like at least three of the forwards anyhow.

That 3rd and 4th line is likely to give last year's depth lines a run for their money as the lowest producing depth lines in recent NHL history.

The defence - well, here's hoping Larsson and Nurse just didn't care about pre-season.

And goalie...good lord, that's so bad. The saddest thing is that there have been multiple options better than Mike Smith available on the waiver wire over the last couple weeks, but sadly we have two goalies with no-move clauses...

Well thanks for bringing your gloom and doom Adam. Why not just go player by player and tell us why they suck. So since you think the bottom 6 will be pushing for another NHL record. Who do you think will score zero goals in almost 70 games? That's pretty hard to do.

I'm thinking a group effort.

I would hope that most of that group isn't here next year, and probably gets swapped out as the year progresses.

Cave is AHL-quality.

Archibald had a really nice year for the Coyotes last year, but is he going to continue to shoot the lights out at 13%?

Khaira's coming off a 3-15-18 season. Can he improve on that?

Haas? Had 15 goals in Switzerland, but untested in the NHL (as is Nygard on the first line).

Kassian is a fourth liner on most teams who can play up. The Oilers are slotting him in to the top 6 due to lack of options.

Granlund - had a 32 point season once, 3 years ago. Can he be that guy again? Or is he more likely what he's been recently?

Anyone who looks at that depth chart and says they really like what they see? Well, you're hitting the kool-aid hard. That's not a playoff-bound roster unless McDavid, Draisaitl and Nuge are lights out all season and one of the goalies plays over his head...and even then it's doubtful.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743660 is a reply to message #743659 ]	Tue, 01 October 2019 12:31

mightyreasoner
Messages: 508
Registered: October 2005
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

Adam wrote on Tue, 01 October 2019 12:25

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 01 October 2019 12:13

Adam wrote on Tue, 01 October 2019 12:05

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 01 October 2019 11:55

Lines today.
Nygard - McDavid - Neal
Leon - Nuge - Kassian
Granlund - Haas - Chiasson
Khaira - Cave - Archibald.

NUrse - Larsson
Klefbom - Bear
Russell - Benning

I got to say, I am really liking the lines all things considered with what they have. I have said it many times, the Oilers don't take advantage of having McDavid who can make lesser players better. I think these 2 to lines finally take advantage of that and it makes a decent second line as well.

Once Sheahan comes back, that can take Cave out and they won't be too bad.

Well, I really like at least three of the forwards anyhow.

That 3rd and 4th line is likely to give last year's depth lines a run for their money as the lowest producing depth lines in recent NHL history.

The defence - well, here's hoping Larsson and Nurse just didn't care about pre-season.

And goalie...good lord, that's so bad. The saddest thing is that there have been multiple options better than Mike Smith available on the waiver wire over the last couple weeks, but sadly we have two goalies with no-move clauses...

Well thanks for bringing your gloom and doom Adam. Why not just go player by player and tell us why they suck. So since you think the bottom 6 will be pushing for another NHL record. Who do you think will score zero goals in almost 70 games? That's pretty hard to do.

I'm thinking a group effort.

I would hope that most of that group isn't here next year, and probably gets swapped out as the year progresses.

Cave is AHL-quality.

Archibald had a really nice year for the Coyotes last year, but is he going to continue to shoot the lights out at 13%?

Khaira's coming off a 3-15-18 season. Can he improve on that?

Haas? Had 15 goals in Switzerland, but untested in the NHL (as is Nygard on the first line).

Kassian is a fourth liner on most teams who can play up. The Oilers are slotting him in to the top 6 due to lack of options.

Granlund - had a 32 point season once, 3 years ago. Can he be that guy again? Or is he more likely what he's been recently?

Anyone who looks at that depth chart and says they really like what they see? Well, you're hitting the kool-aid hard. That's not a playoff-bound roster unless McDavid, Draisaitl and Nuge are lights out all season and one of the goalies plays over his head...and even then it's doubtful.

Wait - you forgot to add in Patrick Russell's and Tomas Jurco's career averages.

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Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743662 is a reply to message #743660 ]	Tue, 01 October 2019 12:35

Adam
Messages: 6806
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

mightyreasoner wrote on Tue, 01 October 2019 12:31

Adam wrote on Tue, 01 October 2019 12:25

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 01 October 2019 12:13

Adam wrote on Tue, 01 October 2019 12:05

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 01 October 2019 11:55

Lines today.
Nygard - McDavid - Neal
Leon - Nuge - Kassian
Granlund - Haas - Chiasson
Khaira - Cave - Archibald.

NUrse - Larsson
Klefbom - Bear
Russell - Benning

I got to say, I am really liking the lines all things considered with what they have. I have said it many times, the Oilers don't take advantage of having McDavid who can make lesser players better. I think these 2 to lines finally take advantage of that and it makes a decent second line as well.

Once Sheahan comes back, that can take Cave out and they won't be too bad.

Well, I really like at least three of the forwards anyhow.

That 3rd and 4th line is likely to give last year's depth lines a run for their money as the lowest producing depth lines in recent NHL history.

The defence - well, here's hoping Larsson and Nurse just didn't care about pre-season.

And goalie...good lord, that's so bad. The saddest thing is that there have been multiple options better than Mike Smith available on the waiver wire over the last couple weeks, but sadly we have two goalies with no-move clauses...

Well thanks for bringing your gloom and doom Adam. Why not just go player by player and tell us why they suck. So since you think the bottom 6 will be pushing for another NHL record. Who do you think will score zero goals in almost 70 games? That's pretty hard to do.

I'm thinking a group effort.

I would hope that most of that group isn't here next year, and probably gets swapped out as the year progresses.

Cave is AHL-quality.

Archibald had a really nice year for the Coyotes last year, but is he going to continue to shoot the lights out at 13%?

Khaira's coming off a 3-15-18 season. Can he improve on that?

Haas? Had 15 goals in Switzerland, but untested in the NHL (as is Nygard on the first line).

Kassian is a fourth liner on most teams who can play up. The Oilers are slotting him in to the top 6 due to lack of options.

Granlund - had a 32 point season once, 3 years ago. Can he be that guy again? Or is he more likely what he's been recently?

Anyone who looks at that depth chart and says they really like what they see? Well, you're hitting the kool-aid hard. That's not a playoff-bound roster unless McDavid, Draisaitl and Nuge are lights out all season and one of the goalies plays over his head...and even then it's doubtful.

Wait - you forgot to add in Patrick Russell's and Tomas Jurco's career averages.

I'm still in shock Patrick Russell is still on the team. Ditto for Manning.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743663 is a reply to message #743659 ]	Tue, 01 October 2019 12:42

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3686
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Adam wrote on Tue, 01 October 2019 12:25

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 01 October 2019 12:13

Adam wrote on Tue, 01 October 2019 12:05

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 01 October 2019 11:55

Lines today.
Nygard - McDavid - Neal
Leon - Nuge - Kassian
Granlund - Haas - Chiasson
Khaira - Cave - Archibald.

NUrse - Larsson
Klefbom - Bear
Russell - Benning

I got to say, I am really liking the lines all things considered with what they have. I have said it many times, the Oilers don't take advantage of having McDavid who can make lesser players better. I think these 2 to lines finally take advantage of that and it makes a decent second line as well.

Once Sheahan comes back, that can take Cave out and they won't be too bad.

Well, I really like at least three of the forwards anyhow.

That 3rd and 4th line is likely to give last year's depth lines a run for their money as the lowest producing depth lines in recent NHL history.

The defence - well, here's hoping Larsson and Nurse just didn't care about pre-season.

And goalie...good lord, that's so bad. The saddest thing is that there have been multiple options better than Mike Smith available on the waiver wire over the last couple weeks, but sadly we have two goalies with no-move clauses...

Well thanks for bringing your gloom and doom Adam. Why not just go player by player and tell us why they suck. So since you think the bottom 6 will be pushing for another NHL record. Who do you think will score zero goals in almost 70 games? That's pretty hard to do.

I'm thinking a group effort.

I would hope that most of that group isn't here next year, and probably gets swapped out as the year progresses.

Cave is AHL-quality.

Archibald had a really nice year for the Coyotes last year, but is he going to continue to shoot the lights out at 13%?

Khaira's coming off a 3-15-18 season. Can he improve on that?

Haas? Had 15 goals in Switzerland, but untested in the NHL (as is Nygard on the first line).

Kassian is a fourth liner on most teams who can play up. The Oilers are slotting him in to the top 6 due to lack of options.

Granlund - had a 32 point season once, 3 years ago. Can he be that guy again? Or is he more likely what he's been recently?

Anyone who looks at that depth chart and says they really like what they see? Well, you're hitting the kool-aid hard. That's not a playoff-bound roster unless McDavid, Draisaitl and Nuge are lights out all season and one of the goalies plays over his head...and even then it's doubtful.

You are basing your entire opinion on the idea that not a single guy in the Oilers bottom 6 will even have an average year. Most of the guys the Oilers have signed have scored 10 goals more than once. Many of them multiple times. If these guys were in their 30's then I would agree with you. Most of these guys are in their mid 20's so in their prime, should have lots of game left in them and because they are on 1 yr deals, should have a hell of a lot to play for. So you think NONE of them can have a decent year?

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Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743669 is a reply to message #743663 ]	Tue, 01 October 2019 14:05

Adam
Messages: 6806
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 01 October 2019 12:42

You are basing your entire opinion on the idea that not a single guy in the Oilers bottom 6 will even have an average year. Most of the guys the Oilers have signed have scored 10 goals more than once. Many of them multiple times. If these guys were in their 30's then I would agree with you. Most of these guys are in their mid 20's so in their prime, should have lots of game left in them and because they are on 1 yr deals, should have a hell of a lot to play for. So you think NONE of them can have a decent year?

Except that isn't what I've said at all. I've pointed out that most of these guys don't have a track record for scoring at the NHL level.

Let's look at the forwards with goals scored last year (career high in brackets):

McDavid 41 (41)
Draisaitl 50 (50)
Nugent-Hopkins 28 (28)
Chiasson 22 (22)
Kassian 15 (15)
Granlund 12 (19)
Archibald 12 (12)
Sheahan (inj.) 9 (14)
Neal 7 (40)
Khaira 3 (11)
Cave 3 (3)
Jurco 0 (8) AHL last year
Nygard 0 (0) Sweden last year
Haas 0 (0) Switzerland last year
Russell 0 (0) AHL last year

So you're looking at a group where the top 5 scorers all scored their best ever last year. If that group scored 156 again this year, we should count ourselves lucky. It's more likely we'll see that cohort decline and maybe put up 135-140.

For the next group, we have three players who underperformed last year in Sheahan, Granlund and Neal. Maybe one or two of them can rebound. Archibald probably overachieved based on shot rates and shooting percentage. It would be great if he was a 10+ player again, but that's far from certain. Maybe there's 45-50 goals here, but that might be optimistic.

Khaira had one really good season, then a poor one for production last year. He's probably somewhere in between.

The last 5 players have 25 NHL goals to their name, all at ages 24 or older (22 of those are Jurco). How many goals do you reasonably think you can expect from that group? I think 15-20 would be a best case scenario.

Our defence has not produced a great amount of offence in recent years, and with the goaltending we've got, we're unlikely to be a league leader in goal prevention.

I think that Holland built an 85-point hockey team. He knows he won't be held accountable for this year because Chiarelli, and he's hoping he can build something better next year. You can even see it in his answers today:

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey /edmonton-oilers-gm-ken-holland-the-goal-here-is-to-be-in-th e-playoffs

He says over and over the goal is to "push for a playoff spot". That is a big tell. They don't see this as a playoff team, they think it's a win if they are just in the hunt and maybe they get lucky and get another high pick next year.

[Updated on: Tue, 01 October 2019 14:06]

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743670 is a reply to message #743669 ]	Tue, 01 October 2019 14:11

CrudeRemarks
Messages: 1698
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton

1 Cup

Adam wrote on Tue, 01 October 2019 14:05

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 01 October 2019 12:42

You are basing your entire opinion on the idea that not a single guy in the Oilers bottom 6 will even have an average year. Most of the guys the Oilers have signed have scored 10 goals more than once. Many of them multiple times. If these guys were in their 30's then I would agree with you. Most of these guys are in their mid 20's so in their prime, should have lots of game left in them and because they are on 1 yr deals, should have a hell of a lot to play for. So you think NONE of them can have a decent year?

Except that isn't what I've said at all. I've pointed out that most of these guys don't have a track record for scoring at the NHL level.

Let's look at the forwards with goals scored last year (career high in brackets):

McDavid 41 (41)
Draisaitl 50 (50)
Nugent-Hopkins 28 (28)
Chiasson 22 (22)
Kassian 15 (15)
Granlund 12 (19)
Archibald 12 (12)
Sheahan (inj.) 9 (14)
Neal 7 (40)
Khaira 3 (11)
Cave 3 (3)
Jurco 0 (8) AHL last year
Nygard 0 (0) Sweden last year
Haas 0 (0) Switzerland last year
Russell 0 (0) AHL last year

So you're looking at a group where the top 5 scorers all scored their best ever last year. If that group scored 156 again this year, we should count ourselves lucky. It's more likely we'll see that cohort decline and maybe put up 135-140.

For the next group, we have three players who underperformed last year in Sheahan, Granlund and Neal. Maybe one or two of them can rebound. Archibald probably overachieved based on shot rates and shooting percentage. It would be great if he was a 10+ player again, but that's far from certain. Maybe there's 45-50 goals here, but that might be optimistic.

Khaira had one really good season, then a poor one for production last year. He's probably somewhere in between.

The last 5 players have 25 NHL goals to their name, all at ages 24 or older (22 of those are Jurco). How many goals do you reasonably think you can expect from that group? I think 15-20 would be a best case scenario.

Our defence has not produced a great amount of offence in recent years, and with the goaltending we've got, we're unlikely to be a league leader in goal prevention.

I think that Holland built an 85-point hockey team. He knows he won't be held accountable for this year because Chiarelli, and he's hoping he can build something better next year. You can even see it in his answers today:

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey /edmonton-oilers-gm-ken-holland-the-goal-here-is-to-be-in-th e-playoffs

He says over and over the goal is to "push for a playoff spot". That is a big tell. They don't see this as a playoff team, they think it's a win if they are just in the hunt and maybe they get lucky and get another high pick next year.

Hey in Holland's defense he was apparently looking for a top 4 dman on waivers but none were available. You can't MAKE the other teams waive their best players.

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.

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Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743674 is a reply to message #743669 ]	Tue, 01 October 2019 14:24

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3686
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Adam wrote on Tue, 01 October 2019 14:05

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 01 October 2019 12:42

You are basing your entire opinion on the idea that not a single guy in the Oilers bottom 6 will even have an average year. Most of the guys the Oilers have signed have scored 10 goals more than once. Many of them multiple times. If these guys were in their 30's then I would agree with you. Most of these guys are in their mid 20's so in their prime, should have lots of game left in them and because they are on 1 yr deals, should have a hell of a lot to play for. So you think NONE of them can have a decent year?

Except that isn't what I've said at all. I've pointed out that most of these guys don't have a track record for scoring at the NHL level.

Let's look at the forwards with goals scored last year (career high in brackets):

McDavid 41 (41)
Draisaitl 50 (50)
Nugent-Hopkins 28 (28)
Chiasson 22 (22)
Kassian 15 (15)
Granlund 12 (19)
Archibald 12 (12)
Sheahan (inj.) 9 (14)
Neal 7 (40)
Khaira 3 (11)
Cave 3 (3)
Jurco 0 (8) AHL last year
Nygard 0 (0) Sweden last year
Haas 0 (0) Switzerland last year
Russell 0 (0) AHL last year

So you're looking at a group where the top 5 scorers all scored their best ever last year. If that group scored 156 again this year, we should count ourselves lucky. It's more likely we'll see that cohort decline and maybe put up 135-140.

For the next group, we have three players who underperformed last year in Sheahan, Granlund and Neal. Maybe one or two of them can rebound. Archibald probably overachieved based on shot rates and shooting percentage. It would be great if he was a 10+ player again, but that's far from certain. Maybe there's 45-50 goals here, but that might be optimistic.

Khaira had one really good season, then a poor one for production last year. He's probably somewhere in between.

The last 5 players have 25 NHL goals to their name, all at ages 24 or older (22 of those are Jurco). How many goals do you reasonably think you can expect from that group? I think 15-20 would be a best case scenario.

Our defence has not produced a great amount of offence in recent years, and with the goaltending we've got, we're unlikely to be a league leader in goal prevention.

I think that Holland built an 85-point hockey team. He knows he won't be held accountable for this year because Chiarelli, and he's hoping he can build something better next year. You can even see it in his answers today:

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey /edmonton-oilers-gm-ken-holland-the-goal-here-is-to-be-in-th e-playoffs

He says over and over the goal is to "push for a playoff spot". That is a big tell. They don't see this as a playoff team, they think it's a win if they are just in the hunt and maybe they get lucky and get another high pick next year.

I don't think this is a playoff team either. I don't think you can take the absolute gong show Chia left and fix it in one offseason. I don't care who the GM is. Anything is possible but I think they just miss out but I see an improvement in the team.

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Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743675 is a reply to message #743669 ]	Tue, 01 October 2019 15:23

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3686
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Adam wrote on Tue, 01 October 2019 14:05

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 01 October 2019 12:42

You are basing your entire opinion on the idea that not a single guy in the Oilers bottom 6 will even have an average year. Most of the guys the Oilers have signed have scored 10 goals more than once. Many of them multiple times. If these guys were in their 30's then I would agree with you. Most of these guys are in their mid 20's so in their prime, should have lots of game left in them and because they are on 1 yr deals, should have a hell of a lot to play for. So you think NONE of them can have a decent year?

Except that isn't what I've said at all. I've pointed out that most of these guys don't have a track record for scoring at the NHL level.

Let's look at the forwards with goals scored last year (career high in brackets):

McDavid 41 (41)
Draisaitl 50 (50)
Nugent-Hopkins 28 (28)
Chiasson 22 (22)
Kassian 15 (15)
Granlund 12 (19)
Archibald 12 (12)
Sheahan (inj.) 9 (14)
Neal 7 (40)
Khaira 3 (11)
Cave 3 (3)
Jurco 0 (8) AHL last year
Nygard 0 (0) Sweden last year
Haas 0 (0) Switzerland last year
Russell 0 (0) AHL last year

So you're looking at a group where the top 5 scorers all scored their best ever last year. If that group scored 156 again this year, we should count ourselves lucky. It's more likely we'll see that cohort decline and maybe put up 135-140.

For the next group, we have three players who underperformed last year in Sheahan, Granlund and Neal. Maybe one or two of them can rebound. Archibald probably overachieved based on shot rates and shooting percentage. It would be great if he was a 10+ player again, but that's far from certain. Maybe there's 45-50 goals here, but that might be optimistic.

Khaira had one really good season, then a poor one for production last year. He's probably somewhere in between.

The last 5 players have 25 NHL goals to their name, all at ages 24 or older (22 of those are Jurco). How many goals do you reasonably think you can expect from that group? I think 15-20 would be a best case scenario.

Our defence has not produced a great amount of offence in recent years, and with the goaltending we've got, we're unlikely to be a league leader in goal prevention.

I think that Holland built an 85-point hockey team. He knows he won't be held accountable for this year because Chiarelli, and he's hoping he can build something better next year. You can even see it in his answers today:

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey /edmonton-oilers-gm-ken-holland-the-goal-here-is-to-be-in-th e-playoffs

He says over and over the goal is to "push for a playoff spot". That is a big tell. They don't see this as a playoff team, they think it's a win if they are just in the hunt and maybe they get lucky and get another high pick next year.

I know your automatic is to assume the absolute worst but you should read this article from Gregor.
https://oilersnation.com/2019/10/01/why-the-edmonton-oilers- can-make-the-playoffs/

Gregor is by no means an Oilers apologist. Far from it. What he says in this article is a lot of what I think.

Some main points.
Goaltending. I don't think the Oilers goaltending is elite, not close. But do I think it could be average? Yes. Gregor lists Koskinen stats through the first half of the season and he was in the middle of the pack. He faltered towards the end where the Oilers played the piss out of him. Where the big problem was, happened early when Talbot who in his 25 starts was below .900. If the Oilers are splitting the goaltending and both guys are just average which I think is realistic, they goaltending won't be that bad.

PK- They have been bad, really, really bad. In the past, the swapped out coaches and systems but the same guys were there. This year, they have new coaches, new systems but they also swapped out guy and brought in guys who are good at it. If the Oilers are just middle of the pack, they will drop their goals against a lot.

The scoring. He made a good point about the top 5 guys scoring. The Oilers had the 4th most goals scored by their top 5 guys in the league last year. I don't know if Leon will score 50 again but I could see him hover around 40 pretty easily. At some point McDavid will score 50. I don't see Nuge dropping down a ton, he's been a 20's guy most years. With 10 consecutive 20 goal seasons and the last one being 7, I see last year as an outlier and could easily see him score at least high teens. Will Chiasson score 22? No, could he score low teens? Easily. So I don't see a massive drop off from the top guys in goals from last year.

Depth scoring. They set a record with 43 goals out of the bottom 6. Will every bottom 6 guy - Granlund, Archibald, Sheahan- they signed not score 10 or more goals something they have done before? I doubt it. Will they have a player like Rieder set a record for not scoring? I doubt it. Do I think Khaira will only score 3 goals the whole year? I doubt it. Will who ever is on the roster over JP only score 4 goals for over half the season? I doubt it. Could we see a bunch of guys like Archibald, Granlund, Sheahan, Nygard, maybe Khaira, all score 10 goals? By NHL standards, that's not high end production.

So you should read the article. It's a good article. It's not an overly sunshine and rainbows article in my opinion. It's an article looking at the team logically and realizing that a lot of the things that happened last year, there is a very strong chance that is won't happen again. SO even if all the Oilers do is improve slightly and move towards mediocrity rather than bad, they will improve.

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Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743676 is a reply to message #743675 ]	Tue, 01 October 2019 15:52

Adam
Messages: 6806
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 01 October 2019 15:23

Adam wrote on Tue, 01 October 2019 14:05

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 01 October 2019 12:42

You are basing your entire opinion on the idea that not a single guy in the Oilers bottom 6 will even have an average year. Most of the guys the Oilers have signed have scored 10 goals more than once. Many of them multiple times. If these guys were in their 30's then I would agree with you. Most of these guys are in their mid 20's so in their prime, should have lots of game left in them and because they are on 1 yr deals, should have a hell of a lot to play for. So you think NONE of them can have a decent year?

Except that isn't what I've said at all. I've pointed out that most of these guys don't have a track record for scoring at the NHL level.

Let's look at the forwards with goals scored last year (career high in brackets):

McDavid 41 (41)
Draisaitl 50 (50)
Nugent-Hopkins 28 (28)
Chiasson 22 (22)
Kassian 15 (15)
Granlund 12 (19)
Archibald 12 (12)
Sheahan (inj.) 9 (14)
Neal 7 (40)
Khaira 3 (11)
Cave 3 (3)
Jurco 0 (8) AHL last year
Nygard 0 (0) Sweden last year
Haas 0 (0) Switzerland last year
Russell 0 (0) AHL last year

So you're looking at a group where the top 5 scorers all scored their best ever last year. If that group scored 156 again this year, we should count ourselves lucky. It's more likely we'll see that cohort decline and maybe put up 135-140.

For the next group, we have three players who underperformed last year in Sheahan, Granlund and Neal. Maybe one or two of them can rebound. Archibald probably overachieved based on shot rates and shooting percentage. It would be great if he was a 10+ player again, but that's far from certain. Maybe there's 45-50 goals here, but that might be optimistic.

Khaira had one really good season, then a poor one for production last year. He's probably somewhere in between.

The last 5 players have 25 NHL goals to their name, all at ages 24 or older (22 of those are Jurco). How many goals do you reasonably think you can expect from that group? I think 15-20 would be a best case scenario.

Our defence has not produced a great amount of offence in recent years, and with the goaltending we've got, we're unlikely to be a league leader in goal prevention.

I think that Holland built an 85-point hockey team. He knows he won't be held accountable for this year because Chiarelli, and he's hoping he can build something better next year. You can even see it in his answers today:

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey /edmonton-oilers-gm-ken-holland-the-goal-here-is-to-be-in-th e-playoffs

He says over and over the goal is to "push for a playoff spot". That is a big tell. They don't see this as a playoff team, they think it's a win if they are just in the hunt and maybe they get lucky and get another high pick next year.

I know your automatic is to assume the absolute worst but you should read this article from Gregor.
https://oilersnation.com/2019/10/01/why-the-edmonton-oilers- can-make-the-playoffs/

Gregor is by no means an Oilers apologist. Far from it. What he says in this article is a lot of what I think.

Some main points.
Goaltending. I don't think the Oilers goaltending is elite, not close. But do I think it could be average? Yes. Gregor lists Koskinen stats through the first half of the season and he was in the middle of the pack. He faltered towards the end where the Oilers played the piss out of him. Where the big problem was, happened early when Talbot who in his 25 starts was below .900. If the Oilers are splitting the goaltending and both guys are just average which I think is realistic, they goaltending won't be that bad.

PK- They have been bad, really, really bad. In the past, the swapped out coaches and systems but the same guys were there. This year, they have new coaches, new systems but they also swapped out guy and brought in guys who are good at it. If the Oilers are just middle of the pack, they will drop their goals against a lot.

The scoring. He made a good point about the top 5 guys scoring. The Oilers had the 4th most goals scored by their top 5 guys in the league last year. I don't know if Leon will score 50 again but I could see him hover around 40 pretty easily. At some point McDavid will score 50. I don't see Nuge dropping down a ton, he's been a 20's guy most years. With 10 consecutive 20 goal seasons and the last one being 7, I see last year as an outlier and could easily see him score at least high teens. Will Chiasson score 22? No, could he score low teens? Easily. So I don't see a massive drop off from the top guys in goals from last year.

Depth scoring. They set a record with 43 goals out of the bottom 6. Will every bottom 6 guy - Granlund, Archibald, Sheahan- they signed not score 10 or more goals something they have done before? I doubt it. Will they have a player like Rieder set a record for not scoring? I doubt it. Do I think Khaira will only score 3 goals the whole year? I doubt it. Will who ever is on the roster over JP only score 4 goals for over half the season? I doubt it. Could we see a bunch of guys like Archibald, Granlund, Sheahan, Nygard, maybe Khaira, all score 10 goals? By NHL standards, that's not high end production.

So you should read the article. It's a good article. It's not an overly sunshine and rainbows article in my opinion. It's an article looking at the team logically and realizing that a lot of the things that happened last year, there is a very strong chance that is won't happen again. SO even if all the Oilers do is improve slightly and move towards mediocrity rather than bad, they will improve.

I think hoping for 10+ from 5 of your bottom guys on this roster - given that there's very little track record of any of them doing it before - is sunshine and rainbows.

The argument on Koskinen is that in a small sample size, when he wasn't expected to be the starter, he didn't completely suck. It's a weak argument. He's not a young guy, so you can't expect much in the way of development from him, and the larger sample size (which includes the games where he wasn't sucking as much) is probably the better estimate of future results. Gregor goes one better than you there and takes only the better stretch for both goalies. That argument is that basically, if the goalies both play like they did when they were on, as opposed to over the whole season, then the Oilers will have league average goaltending...man...that's a lot to hope for.

I get it for Gregor - it would be tough to cover a team this bad for this long and sometimes you want to just go pie in the sky and dream about playoffs. But EVERYTHING would have to go right to get this team in to the playoffs as its currently constructed.

I actually think it's funny looking at those wingers on the depth chart and realizing that there's probably no where else in the league where Puljujarvi would have had a better chance at a top-six forward spot...

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743677 is a reply to message #743676 ]	Tue, 01 October 2019 16:10

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3686
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Adam wrote on Tue, 01 October 2019 15:52

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 01 October 2019 15:23

Adam wrote on Tue, 01 October 2019 14:05

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 01 October 2019 12:42

You are basing your entire opinion on the idea that not a single guy in the Oilers bottom 6 will even have an average year. Most of the guys the Oilers have signed have scored 10 goals more than once. Many of them multiple times. If these guys were in their 30's then I would agree with you. Most of these guys are in their mid 20's so in their prime, should have lots of game left in them and because they are on 1 yr deals, should have a hell of a lot to play for. So you think NONE of them can have a decent year?

Except that isn't what I've said at all. I've pointed out that most of these guys don't have a track record for scoring at the NHL level.

Let's look at the forwards with goals scored last year (career high in brackets):

McDavid 41 (41)
Draisaitl 50 (50)
Nugent-Hopkins 28 (28)
Chiasson 22 (22)
Kassian 15 (15)
Granlund 12 (19)
Archibald 12 (12)
Sheahan (inj.) 9 (14)
Neal 7 (40)
Khaira 3 (11)
Cave 3 (3)
Jurco 0 (8) AHL last year
Nygard 0 (0) Sweden last year
Haas 0 (0) Switzerland last year
Russell 0 (0) AHL last year

So you're looking at a group where the top 5 scorers all scored their best ever last year. If that group scored 156 again this year, we should count ourselves lucky. It's more likely we'll see that cohort decline and maybe put up 135-140.

For the next group, we have three players who underperformed last year in Sheahan, Granlund and Neal. Maybe one or two of them can rebound. Archibald probably overachieved based on shot rates and shooting percentage. It would be great if he was a 10+ player again, but that's far from certain. Maybe there's 45-50 goals here, but that might be optimistic.

Khaira had one really good season, then a poor one for production last year. He's probably somewhere in between.

The last 5 players have 25 NHL goals to their name, all at ages 24 or older (22 of those are Jurco). How many goals do you reasonably think you can expect from that group? I think 15-20 would be a best case scenario.

Our defence has not produced a great amount of offence in recent years, and with the goaltending we've got, we're unlikely to be a league leader in goal prevention.

I think that Holland built an 85-point hockey team. He knows he won't be held accountable for this year because Chiarelli, and he's hoping he can build something better next year. You can even see it in his answers today:

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey /edmonton-oilers-gm-ken-holland-the-goal-here-is-to-be-in-th e-playoffs

He says over and over the goal is to "push for a playoff spot". That is a big tell. They don't see this as a playoff team, they think it's a win if they are just in the hunt and maybe they get lucky and get another high pick next year.

I know your automatic is to assume the absolute worst but you should read this article from Gregor.
https://oilersnation.com/2019/10/01/why-the-edmonton-oilers- can-make-the-playoffs/

Gregor is by no means an Oilers apologist. Far from it. What he says in this article is a lot of what I think.

Some main points.
Goaltending. I don't think the Oilers goaltending is elite, not close. But do I think it could be average? Yes. Gregor lists Koskinen stats through the first half of the season and he was in the middle of the pack. He faltered towards the end where the Oilers played the piss out of him. Where the big problem was, happened early when Talbot who in his 25 starts was below .900. If the Oilers are splitting the goaltending and both guys are just average which I think is realistic, they goaltending won't be that bad.

PK- They have been bad, really, really bad. In the past, the swapped out coaches and systems but the same guys were there. This year, they have new coaches, new systems but they also swapped out guy and brought in guys who are good at it. If the Oilers are just middle of the pack, they will drop their goals against a lot.

The scoring. He made a good point about the top 5 guys scoring. The Oilers had the 4th most goals scored by their top 5 guys in the league last year. I don't know if Leon will score 50 again but I could see him hover around 40 pretty easily. At some point McDavid will score 50. I don't see Nuge dropping down a ton, he's been a 20's guy most years. With 10 consecutive 20 goal seasons and the last one being 7, I see last year as an outlier and could easily see him score at least high teens. Will Chiasson score 22? No, could he score low teens? Easily. So I don't see a massive drop off from the top guys in goals from last year.

Depth scoring. They set a record with 43 goals out of the bottom 6. Will every bottom 6 guy - Granlund, Archibald, Sheahan- they signed not score 10 or more goals something they have done before? I doubt it. Will they have a player like Rieder set a record for not scoring? I doubt it. Do I think Khaira will only score 3 goals the whole year? I doubt it. Will who ever is on the roster over JP only score 4 goals for over half the season? I doubt it. Could we see a bunch of guys like Archibald, Granlund, Sheahan, Nygard, maybe Khaira, all score 10 goals? By NHL standards, that's not high end production.

So you should read the article. It's a good article. It's not an overly sunshine and rainbows article in my opinion. It's an article looking at the team logically and realizing that a lot of the things that happened last year, there is a very strong chance that is won't happen again. SO even if all the Oilers do is improve slightly and move towards mediocrity rather than bad, they will improve.

I think hoping for 10+ from 5 of your bottom guys on this roster - given that there's very little track record of any of them doing it before - is sunshine and rainbows.

The argument on Koskinen is that in a small sample size, when he wasn't expected to be the starter, he didn't completely suck. It's a weak argument. He's not a young guy, so you can't expect much in the way of development from him, and the larger sample size (which includes the games where he wasn't sucking as much) is probably the better estimate of future results. Gregor goes one better than you there and takes only the better stretch for both goalies. That argument is that basically, if the goalies both play like they did when they were on, as opposed to over the whole season, then the Oilers will have league average goaltending...man...that's a lot to hope for.

I get it for Gregor - it would be tough to cover a team this bad for this long and sometimes you want to just go pie in the sky and dream about playoffs. But EVERYTHING would have to go right to get this team in to the playoffs as its currently constructed.

I actually think it's funny looking at those wingers on the depth chart and realizing that there's probably no where else in the league where Puljujarvi would have had a better chance at a top-six forward spot...

SO explain to me why it's sunshine and rainbows to expect 10 goals from bottom 6 guys?

Granlund - 12 in 77, 8 in 55(12 goal pace), 19-69 (23 goal pace). So he's scored 12 or been on a 12 goal pace playing in a bottom 6 role on a not very good Canucks team for 3 years in a row. So how does the numbers not say he can't score 10?
Archibald - 12 goals in 68 games, 5 goals in 39(11 goal pace). Explain to me why 10 goals is not possible when he's done it or been on that pace for 2 years in a row?
Sheahan - 9 goals last year(was on 2 teams), 11 the year before, 2, then 14 and 13. So explain to me why 10 isn't possible? He's bee at or above 4 out of the last 5 seasons.
Chiasson - 22, 9 in 61(12), 12, 8, 11, 13, 13. So in the last 7 seasons, he's scored 10 or more in 6 of them. So explain to me why he can't get 10?

I am not asking for 20 goal seasons from the bottom 6, I am asking for 10 goals. I just listed 4 guys with a track record that says they typically score at least 10 goals. I am a reasonable guy so if you can explain to me why all those guys won't when their previous seasons say in all likelihood they will. For your theory to hold true, you expect every one of those guys to score less than their average. You are expecting all the other guys to not be able to play.

I don't think your expectation is realistic.

[Updated on: Tue, 01 October 2019 16:16]

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Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743654 is a reply to message #743650 ]	Tue, 01 October 2019 12:12

Gator21
Messages: 152
Registered: February 2016
Location: Kelowna, BC

No Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 01 October 2019 11:55

Lines today.
Nygard - McDavid - Neal
Leon - Nuge - Kassian
Granlund - Haas - Chiasson
Khaira - Cave - Archibald.

NUrse - Larsson
Klefbom - Bear
Russell - Benning

I got to say, I am really liking the lines all things considered with what they have. I have said it many times, the Oilers don't take advantage of having McDavid who can make lesser players better. I think these 2 to lines finally take advantage of that and it makes a decent second line as well.

Once Sheahan comes back, that can take Cave out and they won't be too bad.

Interesting that Jurco doesn't factor into those lines. Thought Tippett was pretty high on him

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Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743655 is a reply to message #743654 ]	Tue, 01 October 2019 12:13

Adam
Messages: 6806
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Gator21 wrote on Tue, 01 October 2019 12:12

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 01 October 2019 11:55

Lines today.
Nygard - McDavid - Neal
Leon - Nuge - Kassian
Granlund - Haas - Chiasson
Khaira - Cave - Archibald.

NUrse - Larsson
Klefbom - Bear
Russell - Benning

I got to say, I am really liking the lines all things considered with what they have. I have said it many times, the Oilers don't take advantage of having McDavid who can make lesser players better. I think these 2 to lines finally take advantage of that and it makes a decent second line as well.

Once Sheahan comes back, that can take Cave out and they won't be too bad.

Interesting that Jurco doesn't factor into those lines. Thought Tippett was pretty high on him

He's banged up, isn't he?

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743683 is a reply to message #743655 ]	Tue, 01 October 2019 20:06

Kr55
Messages: 9535
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Tue, 01 October 2019 12:13

Gator21 wrote on Tue, 01 October 2019 12:12

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 01 October 2019 11:55

Lines today.
Nygard - McDavid - Neal
Leon - Nuge - Kassian
Granlund - Haas - Chiasson
Khaira - Cave - Archibald.

NUrse - Larsson
Klefbom - Bear
Russell - Benning

I got to say, I am really liking the lines all things considered with what they have. I have said it many times, the Oilers don't take advantage of having McDavid who can make lesser players better. I think these 2 to lines finally take advantage of that and it makes a decent second line as well.

Once Sheahan comes back, that can take Cave out and they won't be too bad.

Interesting that Jurco doesn't factor into those lines. Thought Tippett was pretty high on him

He's banged up, isn't he?

Edmonton Oilers @EdmontonOilers
Coach Tippett says Tomas Jurco will undergo a medical procedure & won’t be available tomorrow for the #Oilers home opener vs. Vancouver.

Wing depth just went from 3rd year Chia to 4th year Chia. Wth, we let Chia GM here for almost 4 years?

[Updated on: Tue, 01 October 2019 20:15]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743678 is a reply to message #743650 ]	Tue, 01 October 2019 17:49

Kr55
Messages: 9535
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 01 October 2019 11:55

Lines today.
Nygard - McDavid - Neal
Leon - Nuge - Kassian
Granlund - Haas - Chiasson
Khaira - Cave - Archibald.

NUrse - Larsson
Klefbom - Bear
Russell - Benning

I got to say, I am really liking the lines all things considered with what they have. I have said it many times, the Oilers don't take advantage of having McDavid who can make lesser players better. I think these 2 to lines finally take advantage of that and it makes a decent second line as well.

Once Sheahan comes back, that can take Cave out and they won't be too bad.

What? Drai and Nuge on a line without McDavid? Only got to see that for a couple periods the last 3 years. Tippett is just messing with us.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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