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 Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #727880 is a reply to message #673244 ]
Fri, 18 January 2019 09:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm  is currently offline Oscargasm
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A lot of the hockey world were surprised to see Puljujarvi available at 4...

Now a Finnish reporter has come out and blamed the Oilers for JP’s lack of confidence and claims the organization has hurt his development.

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey /edmonton-oilers-have-wrecked-jesse-puljujavis-confidence-sa ys-finnish-sportswriter

Interested in reading it in Finnish?
https://yle.fi/urheilu/3-10600457

The guy that translated it for Staples, Veikko Lehtonen, had this to say via twitter;
This 🇫🇮 interview tells very well how frustrated Jesse is right now. After 3 years in @EdmontonOilers it’s difficult to see how creative and talent he was before. He still is but I don’t think Edmonton is right place to him right now.

JP also addresses his ice time and the trade rumours with the Fin reporter;
Seppala said: “In December, head coach Ken Hitchcock assured him that he would offer a fair opportunity to Puljärvi, but now the credit seems to be on the bottom again. And why not? There is very little happening in the game of Puljujärvi.

Puljujarvi told Seppala he’d made a mistake on a Vancouver goal. “I should been able to take that puck. Icetime must be earned, and now I didn’t.”

He said he could not blame Hitchcock for his ice time situation.

“I haven’t earned that more that that. If I didn’t do anything at the time, then it’s like this.”

Seppala wrote that Puljujarvi is trying to focus on physicality and defense gaming, which of course are important values for the young player.

Seppalla asked Puljujarvi about the possibility of being traded.

“Yes, I’ve seen rumour, but I just need to go day by day. I don’t think about trade,” Puljujarvi said.

Seppala then blasted the Oilers and said the young Finn might be liberated by a trade.”Yes Puljujärvi deserves criticism, but the same can be said of Edmonton Oilers regarding the development of young players… There are no signs of self-confidence in Puljujärvi, and it’s not only Jesse’s fault, Oilers should look the mirror too.”


Now, we’ve seen this type of thing before with Yakupov and just like that situation yes, the organization has to take blame but so does the player. I hate to say this, bc Jesse is still VERY young and I strongly believe he’ll be a player, but I don’t see it with the Oilers anymore. As unfortunate as that is to say, it leads me to be on the side of trading Puljujarvi now before his value is hurt further and he either bolts or we trade him later for a return a la Yakupov, or worse.

Just another feather in the cap of the Oilers management. Development of youth is such a joke here and is further evidence that the problems run deeper than Chiarelli. (Still think Carolina would be a great fit for JP, with former linemate Aho.)



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 Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #727895 is a reply to message #727880 ]
Fri, 18 January 2019 11:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Oscargasm wrote on Fri, 18 January 2019 09:07

A lot of the hockey world were surprised to see Puljujarvi available at 4...

Now a Finnish reporter has come out and blamed the Oilers for JP’s lack of confidence and claims the organization has hurt his development.

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey /edmonton-oilers-have-wrecked-jesse-puljujavis-confidence-sa ys-finnish-sportswriter

Interested in reading it in Finnish?
https://yle.fi/urheilu/3-10600457

The guy that translated it for Staples, Veikko Lehtonen, had this to say via twitter;
This 🇫🇮 interview tells very well how frustrated Jesse is right now. After 3 years in @EdmontonOilers it’s difficult to see how creative and talent he was before. He still is but I don’t think Edmonton is right place to him right now.

JP also addresses his ice time and the trade rumours with the Fin reporter;
Seppala said: “In December, head coach Ken Hitchcock assured him that he would offer a fair opportunity to Puljärvi, but now the credit seems to be on the bottom again. And why not? There is very little happening in the game of Puljujärvi.

Puljujarvi told Seppala he’d made a mistake on a Vancouver goal. “I should been able to take that puck. Icetime must be earned, and now I didn’t.”

He said he could not blame Hitchcock for his ice time situation.

“I haven’t earned that more that that. If I didn’t do anything at the time, then it’s like this.”

Seppala wrote that Puljujarvi is trying to focus on physicality and defense gaming, which of course are important values for the young player.

Seppalla asked Puljujarvi about the possibility of being traded.

“Yes, I’ve seen rumour, but I just need to go day by day. I don’t think about trade,” Puljujarvi said.

Seppala then blasted the Oilers and said the young Finn might be liberated by a trade.”Yes Puljujärvi deserves criticism, but the same can be said of Edmonton Oilers regarding the development of young players… There are no signs of self-confidence in Puljujärvi, and it’s not only Jesse’s fault, Oilers should look the mirror too.”


Now, we’ve seen this type of thing before with Yakupov and just like that situation yes, the organization has to take blame but so does the player. I hate to say this, bc Jesse is still VERY young and I strongly believe he’ll be a player, but I don’t see it with the Oilers anymore. As unfortunate as that is to say, it leads me to be on the side of trading Puljujarvi now before his value is hurt further and he either bolts or we trade him later for a return a la Yakupov, or worse.

Just another feather in the cap of the Oilers management. Development of youth is such a joke here and is further evidence that the problems run deeper than Chiarelli. (Still think Carolina would be a great fit for JP, with former linemate Aho.)


When it comes to Puljujarvi, I see it 2 ways.

First the team. Early in his draft year, there was a legit debate between who was better, Puljujarvi or Laine. At one point in that year, Puljujarvi was ranked ahead of Laine I believe. As the year went on, Laine pulled ahead slightly as most teams #2 but I don't remember seeing ANY draft ranking that didn't have Puljujarvi as a slam dunk #3. SO when he dropped to #4, it was a HUGE shock to everyone. So if it wasn't the Oilers, any team at #4 was taking him. So I don't blame the team for drafting. I also don't blame the team for bringing him over when they did. He was in Finland, apparently from a place n the middle of freaking no where in Finland. He needed to come to NA as soon as possible to get used to the NA game and the culture as apparently compared to Laine, Puljujarvi was from the back woods of Finland. I also sort of think that to get him to come over, they had it written he had to spend a certain amount of time in the NHL that first year to make it worth this while. He was a huge name in Finland, playing pro hockey, probably making decent money. To get him to cross the ocean, all by himself then ship him to Bakersfield so he can make peanuts riding a bus, wouldn't appeal to me either. I don't have knowledge but I have heard that mentioned before.
Where the team has failed is once they shipped him down that first year when it was clear he wasn't close to ready, he should have stayed down. IN hindsight, he should have stayed down his second year. As hard as that is on the team or the player, that should have happened.

But when it comes to the player, there is some fault as well. When you are drafted that high, like it or not, the expectation now a days is you are NHL ready real quick. With the salary cap, teams NEED guys taken that high to be ready fast. IT's year 3 and he's not even a full time 3rd liner. Does coaching play a big part, you bet it does. But he wasn't drafted to be a fringe NHLer where coaching can turn you from a fringe guy to a full time 4th liner, he was drafted to be an impact player. Guys who are supposed to be impact players after 3 yrs of pro should be able to at least be in the line up every night. Not doing basics like changing lines properly or doing basic board play in year 3 of pro can't all be the coaches fault.



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 Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #727945 is a reply to message #727895 ]
Fri, 18 January 2019 21:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stemhovlichski  is currently offline stemhovlichski
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RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 18 January 2019 11:29

He was in Finland, apparently from a place n the middle of freaking no where in Finland. He needed to come to NA as soon as possible to get used to the NA game and the culture as apparently compared to Laine, Puljujarvi was from the back woods of Finland.



He was playing the equivalent of Junior hockey at the age of 14 in the Saskatoon of Finland. He was called up and played pro when he was 16 as the youngest player on his team. He was a very hot prospect. At 17 he played the full year as a pro on the same team as Aho.

Aho has turned into gold in Carolina but somehow the Oilers have taken the next best Finnish prospect (as per the scouts and talent watchers) and turned him into a struggling 3rd liner. I don't buy the argument that he had to come to North America first and play in Bakersfield. Aho went from Liiga to NHL but was a year older so maturity is the big thing here to me. It may have been better to leave JP in Finland for another year, before coming to Edmonton to play some early-season NHL games and then AHL him if necessary. Taking an 18-year old kid and giving him no interpreter, putting him on NHL-size ice, and letting him experience the Oilers' coachy-go-round guaranteed confusion.

Burning off a year of his ELC was also mind-bogglingly short-sighted. Full Oilers. Now we have a young RFA development project that a lot of teams will be interested in. He may turn out to be the next Dubnyk or the next Omark in terms of NHL career, who knows, but he joins the list of high drafts the Oilers have failed with that may have potential elsewhere.

I feel sorry for the kid. Someone needs to point out to him that chasing the puck all over the ice, skating figure 8s in both ends, licking the snot out of your nose with your tongue, and 50 foot floating wrist shots might work in Liiga but are BAD in the NHL.



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 Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #727899 is a reply to message #727880 ]
Fri, 18 January 2019 11:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently online Kr55
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I found this interesting to watch again



I remember this video impressed the hell out of me when we drafted Pulju. But, watching now, he looks exactly the same at 16 as he does playing for us, and...unfortunately, the results are the same too. All the super wide circles, all the rushed plays like shots from far away, holding the puck too long in other instances but he can get away with it against bad defenders, and almost no results.

his video for 2016 WJC looks much better.



He looks way more determined, moving in straighter lines to the puck, making heads up plays, far more confident. I think he actually looked like that for us in his 1st season, especially a nice run he had on Mcdavid's wing, but that confidence completely left him before the end of that season.


It's very obvious that this kid should have been in the AHL for 2 full seasons before we started using his first ELC year, which would have been this year. He needed to get a lot of the stuff in that 1st video out of his game. He needed to build his confidence. He needed to improve his english, and the team should have been pushing and providing an easy means to do that from day 1 with the org.

We rushed him, we had a coach that really has zero interest in developing players who just pushed him to the side while the GM just sat there hoping the situation would improve on its own. THis org just stinks at developing guys that need any help at all.

[Updated on: Fri, 18 January 2019 11:43]


"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #727906 is a reply to message #727899 ]
Fri, 18 January 2019 12:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm  is currently offline Oscargasm
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Kr55 wrote on Fri, 18 January 2019 12:39

I found this interesting to watch again



I remember this video impressed the hell out of me when we drafted Pulju. But, watching now, he looks exactly the same at 16 as he does playing for us, and...unfortunately, the results are the same too. All the super wide circles, all the rushed plays like shots from far away, holding the puck too long in other instances but he can get away with it against bad defenders, and almost no results.

his video for 2016 WJC looks much better.



He looks way more determined, moving in straighter lines to the puck, making heads up plays, far more confident. I think he actually looked like that for us in his 1st season, especially a nice run he had on Mcdavid's wing, but that confidence completely left him before the end of that season.


It's very obvious that this kid should have been in the AHL for 2 full seasons before we started using his first ELC year, which would have been this year. He needed to get a lot of the stuff in that 1st video out of his game. He needed to build his confidence. He needed to improve his english, and the team should have been pushing and providing an easy means to do that from day 1 with the org.

We rushed him, we had a coach that really has zero interest in developing players who just pushed him to the side while the GM just sat there hoping the situation would improve on its own. THis org just stinks at developing guys that need any help at all.


Couldn’t agree more. And now it’s just expected that he figures it out and figures it out now. Started, again, when Hitch said they need Jesse to be a player if they expect to go anywhere, that he’s ‘the type of big bodied player they need to compete in the west’. His game would have/still can, improve to the point of eliminating the rushed (and poor) decisions while building his confidence with some time spent on him not on the 3rd/4th line.

At what point do they cut bait and get a viable return while they can, rather than lose him for less than magic beans as they did Yakupov?



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 Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #727910 is a reply to message #727906 ]
Fri, 18 January 2019 12:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Oscargasm wrote on Fri, 18 January 2019 12:10


Couldn’t agree more. And now it’s just expected that he figures it out and figures it out now. Started, again, when Hitch said they need Jesse to be a player if they expect to go anywhere, that he’s ‘the type of big bodied player they need to compete in the west’. His game would have/still can, improve to the point of eliminating the rushed (and poor) decisions while building his confidence with some time spent on him not on the 3rd/4th line.

At what point do they cut bait and get a viable return while they can, rather than lose him for less than magic beans as they did Yakupov?


Here's the problem - they either have to identify that they want him and will develop him (and think he can develop) or they have to decide he's not worth the risk.

The Oilers are so good at shooting themselves in the foot, so they've already started eroding his trade value. They are incredibly leaky - it's pretty clear listening to Friedman's podcast that he has actually talked to MULTIPLE people in the organization and that they want it to be known that:

- they are openly looking for deals
- they are open to trading the future for a shot at this year's playoffs
- the first rounder is in play
- Puljujarvi is, to an extent, in play - and that there's disagreements within management about that player!?!?

Not to mention, the incredible admission that the team's GM is on a leash and needs to decide "collaboratively" what is going to happen, and that the owner has basically suggested there are jobs on the line if they don't make the playoffs.

It's an incredible set of disclosures to a source that has one of the furthest carrying voices in the league. If you're another team and you're NOT calling the Oilers right now to see how you can pick this carcass, you're probably not doing your job.

If I was running the team, I'd be willing to move Puljujarvi, but I'd be telling any team that calls how much we believe in the player and how high his ceiling is, and that to get us to move on from that player would require a greater return than even the 1st round pick - which is pretty uncertain as to who you get for that.




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 Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #727908 is a reply to message #727899 ]
Fri, 18 January 2019 12:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Kr55 wrote on Fri, 18 January 2019 11:39

I found this interesting to watch again



I remember this video impressed the hell out of me when we drafted Pulju. But, watching now, he looks exactly the same at 16 as he does playing for us, and...unfortunately, the results are the same too. All the super wide circles, all the rushed plays like shots from far away, holding the puck too long in other instances but he can get away with it against bad defenders, and almost no results.

his video for 2016 WJC looks much better.



He looks way more determined, moving in straighter lines to the puck, making heads up plays, far more confident. I think he actually looked like that for us in his 1st season, especially a nice run he had on Mcdavid's wing, but that confidence completely left him before the end of that season.


It's very obvious that this kid should have been in the AHL for 2 full seasons before we started using his first ELC year, which would have been this year. He needed to get a lot of the stuff in that 1st video out of his game. He needed to build his confidence. He needed to improve his english, and the team should have been pushing and providing an easy means to do that from day 1 with the org.

We rushed him, we had a coach that really has zero interest in developing players who just pushed him to the side while the GM just sat there hoping the situation would improve on its own. THis org just stinks at developing guys that need any help at all.

First of all, I agree with you 100%. I don't think the team has handled him correctly. It's pretty clear now that he needed to be in the AHL for 2 full seasons at least, maybe all 3 of his ELC and who knows if that would have been enough. That rarely happens if ever for a guy drafted that high but it looks like Puljujarvi needed it to happen.

But a question I have is, what do you think stops a player from doing what got him drafted? If you watch the video you posted, you see a massive player darting all over the ice using his huge size and reach advantage to his advantage, he's got good speed and he's got a big heavy shot that he was using from all over the place.

Flash to the NHL. In year 3, he's 6'4, 200 lbs at barely 20. So he hasn't finished filling out yet and he's already a monster. Yes guys in the NHL are bigger and stronger than junior guys but so is he. Do we see him use his size and reach? Rarely. On the odd time that he actually takes the puck hard towards the goal using his speed and size, he has shown every time he does it, teams have difficulty handling him. Yet you rarely see it. Why? In the video he was using his big, heavy shot a ton. If you look up his stats, in 36 games, he's got 41 shots. So barely a shot per game. WHY?

So yes I agree that the coaches and organization haven't developed him properly BUT there is no way in my opinion that any coach has been telling JP, don't you dare drive that puck to the goal, don't you dare shoot the puck. I've heard Hitch say the opposite when he's talking about him and he keeps saying he needs more of what JP does well. So the coach is saying do what you do and do it more, yet he doesn't.



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 Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #727909 is a reply to message #727908 ]
Fri, 18 January 2019 12:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently online Kr55
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RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 18 January 2019 12:36


First of all, I agree with you 100%. I don't think the team has handled him correctly. It's pretty clear now that he needed to be in the AHL for 2 full seasons at least, maybe all 3 of his ELC and who knows if that would have been enough. That rarely happens if ever for a guy drafted that high but it looks like Puljujarvi needed it to happen.

But a question I have is, what do you think stops a player from doing what got him drafted? If you watch the video you posted, you see a massive player darting all over the ice using his huge size and reach advantage to his advantage, he's got good speed and he's got a big heavy shot that he was using from all over the place.

Flash to the NHL. In year 3, he's 6'4, 200 lbs at barely 20. So he hasn't finished filling out yet and he's already a monster. Yes guys in the NHL are bigger and stronger than junior guys but so is he. Do we see him use his size and reach? Rarely. On the odd time that he actually takes the puck hard towards the goal using his speed and size, he has shown every time he does it, teams have difficulty handling him. Yet you rarely see it. Why? In the video he was using his big, heavy shot a ton. If you look up his stats, in 36 games, he's got 41 shots. So barely a shot per game. WHY?

So yes I agree that the coaches and organization haven't developed him properly BUT there is no way in my opinion that any coach has been telling JP, don't you dare drive that puck to the goal, don't you dare shoot the puck. I've heard Hitch say the opposite when he's talking about him and he keeps saying he needs more of what JP does well. So the coach is saying do what you do and do it more, yet he doesn't.


I think after 2+ years with Pulju, and now watching those videos, you can understand the weaknesses in his play style that he has not corrected. His play style is very clearly tuned to big ice. In that 2015 WJC video, he is going wide all the time, never having to deal with being cut off. He stick handles slow and far out from his body as well, not at all ready to handle the endless stick checking on smaller ice. Shot is heavy, but he was taking shots from far away far to willingly, he still does that now.

Probably even more than Yak, this kid needed a lot of help from day one. The language barrier right off the bat hurt the orgs ability to really talk through things with him and work through adjustments he had to start making. It's almost like he went 2 years with us learning nothing, because he looked the same to start this year as he does in those videos from 2015. I'd hate to think the kid is unable to learn. I think he may have just been sitting on the sidelines for a lot of this time and the org has been hoping he just figures stuff out on his own from participating in practice. Many adjustments to his game that were needed to be pushed, and you need to actually play against real competition to make those changes. AHL would have been great for him in retrospect, rather than trying to change your game with 6 mins a night, if you even get to play.

Hitch seems to be working more with him, and even though Pulju is getting dropped down now and then, it sounds like the help isn't stopping, he's willing to try to grind things out with the kid. I feel more confident now that if the kid just is never gonna get it, at least someone is trying to get ideas through to him now, unlike before. Just unfortunate we are at the end of his ELC now, and need to start making harder decisions with him. If we're keeping him, hope he is willing to sign a deal like Virtanen, 1.25m or around there.

[Updated on: Fri, 18 January 2019 12:46]


"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #727911 is a reply to message #727909 ]
Fri, 18 January 2019 12:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Kr55 wrote on Fri, 18 January 2019 12:44

Probably even more than Yak, this kid needed a lot of help from day one. The language barrier right off the bat hurt the orgs ability to really talk through things with him and work through adjustments he had to start making. It's almost like he went 2 years with us learning nothing, because he looked the same to start this year as he does in those videos from 2015. I'd hate to think the kid is unable to learn. I think he may have just been sitting on the sidelines for a lot of this time and the org has been hoping he just figures stuff out on his own from participating in practice. Many adjustments to his game that were needed to be pushed, and you need to actually play against real competition to make those changes. AHL would have been great for him in retrospect, rather than trying to change your game with 6 mins a night, if you even get to play.



There's been some rumblings for a while about McLellan and his relationships with Europeans. I wonder if he didn't see a command of the English language as a prerequisite before he was willing to deal with you. We just didn't see much patience or development of Puljujarvi under him at all, and the stuff about the English tutor finally being hired halfway through his second year suggests to me an organization who just thinks these kids should immediately act like pros at 18 years old, simply because they're getting paid.

I mean, McLellan apparently struggled to communicate with anyone, so I just can imagine that he would have no patience at all for someone who doesn't understand when he speaks...




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 Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #727912 is a reply to message #727909 ]
Fri, 18 January 2019 12:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Kr55 wrote on Fri, 18 January 2019 12:44

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 18 January 2019 12:36


First of all, I agree with you 100%. I don't think the team has handled him correctly. It's pretty clear now that he needed to be in the AHL for 2 full seasons at least, maybe all 3 of his ELC and who knows if that would have been enough. That rarely happens if ever for a guy drafted that high but it looks like Puljujarvi needed it to happen.

But a question I have is, what do you think stops a player from doing what got him drafted? If you watch the video you posted, you see a massive player darting all over the ice using his huge size and reach advantage to his advantage, he's got good speed and he's got a big heavy shot that he was using from all over the place.

Flash to the NHL. In year 3, he's 6'4, 200 lbs at barely 20. So he hasn't finished filling out yet and he's already a monster. Yes guys in the NHL are bigger and stronger than junior guys but so is he. Do we see him use his size and reach? Rarely. On the odd time that he actually takes the puck hard towards the goal using his speed and size, he has shown every time he does it, teams have difficulty handling him. Yet you rarely see it. Why? In the video he was using his big, heavy shot a ton. If you look up his stats, in 36 games, he's got 41 shots. So barely a shot per game. WHY?

So yes I agree that the coaches and organization haven't developed him properly BUT there is no way in my opinion that any coach has been telling JP, don't you dare drive that puck to the goal, don't you dare shoot the puck. I've heard Hitch say the opposite when he's talking about him and he keeps saying he needs more of what JP does well. So the coach is saying do what you do and do it more, yet he doesn't.


I think after 2+ years with Pulju, and now watching those videos, you can understand the weaknesses in his play style that he has not corrected. His play style is very clearly tuned to big ice. In that 2015 WJC video, he is going wide all the time, never having to deal with being cut off. He stick handles slow and far out from his body as well, not at all ready to handle the endless stick checking on smaller ice. Shot is heavy, but he was taking shots from far away far to willingly, he still does that now.

Probably even more than Yak, this kid needed a lot of help from day one. The language barrier right off the bat hurt the orgs ability to really talk through things with him and work through adjustments he had to start making. It's almost like he went 2 years with us learning nothing, because he looked the same to start this year as he does in those videos from 2015. I'd hate to think the kid is unable to learn. I think he may have just been sitting on the sidelines for a lot of this time and the org has been hoping he just figures stuff out on his own from participating in practice. Hitch seems to be working more with him, and even though Pulju is getting dropped down now and then, it sounds like the help isn't stopping, he's willing to try to grind things out with the kid. I feel more confident now that if the kid just is never gonna get it, at least someone is trying to get ideas through to him now, unlike before. Just unfortunate we are at the end of his ELC now, and need to start making harder decisions with him. If we're keeping him, hope he is willing to sign a deal like Virtanen, 1.25m or around there.

I agree with you.

But I still have a hard time understanding why a player completely abandons his game that got him there completely. I see time and time again Puljujarvi getting the puck and passing up shots. Like maybe he's not developed enough to recognize the "correct play" so why isn't he reverting back to the basics? I have a hard time believing that if JP gains the zone, he's not 100% sure what to do so he goes super basic and he lets a good, hard shot go that Hitch is going to rip a strip off him. Or if he instead of passing, he takes it hard to the goal, that Hitch will shred him. He's not even doing any of that.



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 Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #727913 is a reply to message #727912 ]
Fri, 18 January 2019 13:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 18 January 2019 12:51


I agree with you.

But I still have a hard time understanding why a player completely abandons his game that got him there completely. I see time and time again Puljujarvi getting the puck and passing up shots. Like maybe he's not developed enough to recognize the "correct play" so why isn't he reverting back to the basics? I have a hard time believing that if JP gains the zone, he's not 100% sure what to do so he goes super basic and he lets a good, hard shot go that Hitch is going to rip a strip off him. Or if he instead of passing, he takes it hard to the goal, that Hitch will shred him. He's not even doing any of that.


Some of that is confidence. Some is a recognition he can no longer blast from 60 ft out and expect to beat the goalie.

His shot rates aren't high enough to be successful yet, but we also don't want him taking long unscreened shots either, because those don't often beat NHL netminders.

I'd like to see him work on getting in to position for shots - he doesn't find that soft spot often, so he rarely gets one-timers. It would help if he ever got powerplay looks, because a skilled player with a good shot is going to get more opportunities to use it when the other team has one less guy on the ice, but the Oilers still seem to prefer not to use young guys on the man advantage.




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 Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #727916 is a reply to message #727913 ]
Fri, 18 January 2019 13:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Fri, 18 January 2019 14:13

the Oilers still seem to prefer not to use young guys on the man advantage.




Hey, not true! Caleb Jones seems to be a fixture on the 2nd unit AND Yamamoto saw 2nd unit time last game. icon_wink



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 Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #727915 is a reply to message #727912 ]
Fri, 18 January 2019 13:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 18 January 2019 11:51


But I still have a hard time understanding why a player completely abandons his game that got him there completely. I see time and time again Puljujarvi getting the puck and passing up shots. Like maybe he's not developed enough to recognize the "correct play" so why isn't he reverting back to the basics? I have a hard time believing that if JP gains the zone, he's not 100% sure what to do so he goes super basic and he lets a good, hard shot go that Hitch is going to rip a strip off him. Or if he instead of passing, he takes it hard to the goal, that Hitch will shred him. He's not even doing any of that.


The thing is, we actually don't know that those types of things didn't happen. Maybe Hitch is different, but a lot of the stuff that has been speculated about McLellan's coaching style is that he wanted everyone not named McDavid to play mistake free hockey.

So it's not hard to imagine that at some point, Puljujarvi did exactly what you suggest and followed his offensive instincts and drove to the net, was stripped of the puck and a 2-on-1 or 3-on-2 developed the other way and McLellan did rip into him.

It's also not hard to imagine that making the jump from the Finnish league on the big ice to the NHL is a massive leap. All the angles are different, the speed is much higher, the players much bigger. You have less time to react or create. Yes, it's still hockey and obviously the skills that he has that you mentioned are also assets in the NHL. But I'm not shocked that a young player can come into that scenario and make bad decisions or look confused as to what he is supposed to be doing. This is where coaching and development should be happening.

We've had this conversation before, and when we're trying to apportion blame in terms of why Puljujarvi hasn't developed as we would all have liked, I think we lean in opposite directions. But this is clearly a pattern for the Oilers, I don't think there's any denying it at this point.




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 Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #727922 is a reply to message #727909 ]
Fri, 18 January 2019 14:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Kr55 wrote on Fri, 18 January 2019 12:44


Hitch seems to be working more with him, and even though Pulju is getting dropped down now and then, it sounds like the help isn't stopping, he's willing to try to grind things out with the kid. I feel more confident now that if the kid just is never gonna get it, at least someone is trying to get ideas through to him now, unlike before. Just unfortunate we are at the end of his ELC now, and need to start making harder decisions with him. If we're keeping him, hope he is willing to sign a deal like Virtanen, 1.25m or around there.


https://www.nhl.com/oilers/news/talking-points-hitchcock-tal ks-team-enthusiasm-young-wingers-and-more/c-304026362

"Q: You've got two 20-year-old forwards. How do you balance trying to develop them when you want to win games?

A: You don't. You don't try to develop them. You run them until they run out of gas and when they run out of gas, you back them off and work with them again. When we play them and put them into the lineup, we don't treat them as 20-year-olds; they're players. The next day, like today, when we talked to all of our young guys today we had little individual meetings today, we asked them how they were doing and we asked them where we could help but when they put the sweater on, they better play. That's their job and that's what they got to do, and they know that.

Individually and collectively, they're finding it really hard. This is, I wouldn't say a surprise to them, but it's a little bit overwhelming at times because they found another gear since Christmas time in the League that they didn't anticipate. So, they're having a difficult time. We talked to Jesse about it today and he can't believe the difference in the temperature of the games now. And it's going to take some getting used to but like I said to him, you're expected ti play and you're expected to play well when you put the sweater on."

Hitchcock sees trying to "develop" the young guys differently than the fans like me do....my preference would be to keep both players in Bakersfield and give them copious amounts of ice time until they run out of gas down there, rather than try to develop them in the NHL, which simply is not a "developmental " league. Have to support Hitchcock's plan, though; it's not like he has a lot of viable options on the wings.




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 Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #727925 is a reply to message #727922 ]
Fri, 18 January 2019 14:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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GabbyDugan wrote on Fri, 18 January 2019 14:15

Kr55 wrote on Fri, 18 January 2019 12:44


Hitch seems to be working more with him, and even though Pulju is getting dropped down now and then, it sounds like the help isn't stopping, he's willing to try to grind things out with the kid. I feel more confident now that if the kid just is never gonna get it, at least someone is trying to get ideas through to him now, unlike before. Just unfortunate we are at the end of his ELC now, and need to start making harder decisions with him. If we're keeping him, hope he is willing to sign a deal like Virtanen, 1.25m or around there.


https://www.nhl.com/oilers/news/talking-points-hitchcock-tal ks-team-enthusiasm-young-wingers-and-more/c-304026362

"Q: You've got two 20-year-old forwards. How do you balance trying to develop them when you want to win games?

A: You don't. You don't try to develop them. You run them until they run out of gas and when they run out of gas, you back them off and work with them again. When we play them and put them into the lineup, we don't treat them as 20-year-olds; they're players. The next day, like today, when we talked to all of our young guys today we had little individual meetings today, we asked them how they were doing and we asked them where we could help but when they put the sweater on, they better play. That's their job and that's what they got to do, and they know that.

Individually and collectively, they're finding it really hard. This is, I wouldn't say a surprise to them, but it's a little bit overwhelming at times because they found another gear since Christmas time in the League that they didn't anticipate. So, they're having a difficult time. We talked to Jesse about it today and he can't believe the difference in the temperature of the games now. And it's going to take some getting used to but like I said to him, you're expected ti play and you're expected to play well when you put the sweater on."

Hitchcock sees trying to "develop" the young guys differently than the fans like me do....my preference would be to keep both players in Bakersfield and give them copious amounts of ice time until they run out of gas down there, rather than try to develop them in the NHL, which simply is not a "developmental " league. Have to support Hitchcock's plan, though; it's not like he has a lot of viable options on the wings.


That does sound reasonable. There is way too much on the line and going on with this team to be able to baby any players during games, or put them in spots you're not sure they can handle and just brush it off if it goes terribly wrong. Certainly this is not the league for that. The make or brake will be that interaction off the ice and in practice and the support the young players are getting. If the feedback and support is lousy, counterproductive, or completely non-existent, good luck to a guy like Pulju. He's clearly a high maintenance project, and this is probably as good as it will get for him while in an NHL lineup.



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 Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #727932 is a reply to message #727925 ]
Fri, 18 January 2019 16:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Kr55 wrote on Fri, 18 January 2019 15:41

GabbyDugan wrote on Fri, 18 January 2019 14:15

Kr55 wrote on Fri, 18 January 2019 12:44


Hitch seems to be working more with him, and even though Pulju is getting dropped down now and then, it sounds like the help isn't stopping, he's willing to try to grind things out with the kid. I feel more confident now that if the kid just is never gonna get it, at least someone is trying to get ideas through to him now, unlike before. Just unfortunate we are at the end of his ELC now, and need to start making harder decisions with him. If we're keeping him, hope he is willing to sign a deal like Virtanen, 1.25m or around there.


https://www.nhl.com/oilers/news/talking-points-hitchcock-tal ks-team-enthusiasm-young-wingers-and-more/c-304026362

"Q: You've got two 20-year-old forwards. How do you balance trying to develop them when you want to win games?

A: You don't. You don't try to develop them. You run them until they run out of gas and when they run out of gas, you back them off and work with them again. When we play them and put them into the lineup, we don't treat them as 20-year-olds; they're players. The next day, like today, when we talked to all of our young guys today we had little individual meetings today, we asked them how they were doing and we asked them where we could help but when they put the sweater on, they better play. That's their job and that's what they got to do, and they know that.

Individually and collectively, they're finding it really hard. This is, I wouldn't say a surprise to them, but it's a little bit overwhelming at times because they found another gear since Christmas time in the League that they didn't anticipate. So, they're having a difficult time. We talked to Jesse about it today and he can't believe the difference in the temperature of the games now. And it's going to take some getting used to but like I said to him, you're expected ti play and you're expected to play well when you put the sweater on."

Hitchcock sees trying to "develop" the young guys differently than the fans like me do....my preference would be to keep both players in Bakersfield and give them copious amounts of ice time until they run out of gas down there, rather than try to develop them in the NHL, which simply is not a "developmental " league. Have to support Hitchcock's plan, though; it's not like he has a lot of viable options on the wings.


That does sound reasonable. There is way too much on the line and going on with this team to be able to baby any players during games, or put them in spots you're not sure they can handle and just brush it off if it goes terribly wrong. Certainly this is not the league for that. The make or brake will be that interaction off the ice and in practice and the support the young players are getting. If the feedback and support is lousy, counterproductive, or completely non-existent, good luck to a guy like Pulju. He's clearly a high maintenance project, and this is probably as good as it will get for him while in an NHL lineup.


Almost makes it sound as though they (Jesse and Kailer) would be better served in Bakersfield right now. Who’d have thought!

We (The Oilers) need to bring in two wingers (remember, Chia said wingers are easy to acquire) to play at least middle 6 then send JP and Yamamoto to Bakersfield for the rest of the season. Let them play, and develop, down there. Right now isn’t about developing players in Edmonton, it’s about wins. Do this and bring them up for Playoffs (or whenever Bakersfield is eliminated) so they can experience the atmosphere and get a taste.

We’re set at centre, McDrai, Nuge, Cave and Brodz. Khaira can slide back to 4C if an injury occurs or rest is needed to keep Connor and Leon together (unless the unthinkable happens and an injury is sustained by one of the big 3 *KNOCK ON WOOD*).

If they’re reluctant to send JP to Bakersfield and if his value is at a point we can get a good return (read: a player who can slide in to our top 6 [to reiterate, top 6] on wing for the push AND beyond), you pull the trigger. Otherwise, you use that 1st round pick to bring in a player to play top 6 wing and perhaps move a dman for a bottom 6 winger and send JP & Yam down. It’s pretty clear that despite the odd flash, Jesse needs more seasoning.

If they want playoffs, there’s the game plan.

(I’m conflicted. I keep going back and forth in my mind regarding trade/keep JP. But in order to send him to Bakersfield, they need to bring in a winger bc our depth is absolute trash [thanks PC] and JP is one of the limited sources of trade bait with value, or perceived value anyway).



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 Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #727934 is a reply to message #727932 ]
Fri, 18 January 2019 16:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Oscargasm wrote on Fri, 18 January 2019 16:13


Almost makes it sound as though they (Jesse and Kailer) would be better served in Bakersfield right now. Who’d have thought!

We (The Oilers) need to bring in two wingers (remember, Chia said wingers are easy to acquire) to play at least middle 6 then send JP and Yamamoto to Bakersfield for the rest of the season. Let them play, and develop, down there. Right now isn’t about developing players in Edmonton, it’s about wins. Do this and bring them up for Playoffs (or whenever Bakersfield is eliminated) so they can experience the atmosphere and get a taste.

We’re set at centre, McDrai, Nuge, Cave and Brodz. Khaira can slide back to 4C if an injury occurs or rest is needed to keep Connor and Leon together (unless the unthinkable happens and an injury is sustained by one of the big 3 *KNOCK ON WOOD*).

If they’re reluctant to send JP to Bakersfield and if his value is at a point we can get a good return (read: a player who can slide in to our top 6 [to reiterate, top 6] on wing for the push AND beyond), you pull the trigger. Otherwise, you use that 1st round pick to bring in a player to play top 6 wing and perhaps move a dman for a bottom 6 winger and send JP & Yam down. It’s pretty clear that despite the odd flash, Jesse needs more seasoning.

If they want playoffs, there’s the game plan.

(I’m conflicted. I keep going back and forth in my mind regarding trade/keep JP. But in order to send him to Bakersfield, they need to bring in a winger bc our depth is absolute trash [thanks PC] and JP is one of the limited sources of trade bait with value, or perceived value anyway).


I'll be honest, I don't mind the idea of young skilled guys playing on the fourth line. However, I'd like them playing with other young skilled guys, not plugs, and I'd like to make it clear that they are out there to outscore the opposition's fourth line. Think the Kid Line in the 1990 Stanley Cup run.

They may not play big minutes, but they are playing with other skilled guys and trying to make a difference. They're probably getting some PP reps too - possibly on the second unit (which means next to no reps for the Oilers, but that's another story).

Playing Puljujarvi with Rieder on the fourth line isn't bad to me. Brodziak isn't great because he's looked liked a plug now, but he's scored in the past. That line tonight isn't bad. I wouldn't even mind the idea of Puljujarvi, Yamamoto and a skilled young center (Marody?)

That said, I'm not opposed to these guys getting big minutes in the AHL instead and let them excel there before rushing them back...and excelling is NOT 2-2-4 in 4 games or 4-4-8 in 11...




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 Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #727936 is a reply to message #727934 ]
Fri, 18 January 2019 17:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Fri, 18 January 2019 17:38

Oscargasm wrote on Fri, 18 January 2019 16:13


Almost makes it sound as though they (Jesse and Kailer) would be better served in Bakersfield right now. Who’d have thought!

We (The Oilers) need to bring in two wingers (remember, Chia said wingers are easy to acquire) to play at least middle 6 then send JP and Yamamoto to Bakersfield for the rest of the season. Let them play, and develop, down there. Right now isn’t about developing players in Edmonton, it’s about wins. Do this and bring them up for Playoffs (or whenever Bakersfield is eliminated) so they can experience the atmosphere and get a taste.

We’re set at centre, McDrai, Nuge, Cave and Brodz. Khaira can slide back to 4C if an injury occurs or rest is needed to keep Connor and Leon together (unless the unthinkable happens and an injury is sustained by one of the big 3 *KNOCK ON WOOD*).

If they’re reluctant to send JP to Bakersfield and if his value is at a point we can get a good return (read: a player who can slide in to our top 6 [to reiterate, top 6] on wing for the push AND beyond), you pull the trigger. Otherwise, you use that 1st round pick to bring in a player to play top 6 wing and perhaps move a dman for a bottom 6 winger and send JP & Yam down. It’s pretty clear that despite the odd flash, Jesse needs more seasoning.

If they want playoffs, there’s the game plan.

(I’m conflicted. I keep going back and forth in my mind regarding trade/keep JP. But in order to send him to Bakersfield, they need to bring in a winger bc our depth is absolute trash [thanks PC] and JP is one of the limited sources of trade bait with value, or perceived value anyway).


I'll be honest, I don't mind the idea of young skilled guys playing on the fourth line. However, I'd like them playing with other young skilled guys, not plugs, and I'd like to make it clear that they are out there to outscore the opposition's fourth line. Think the Kid Line in the 1990 Stanley Cup run.

They may not play big minutes, but they are playing with other skilled guys and trying to make a difference. They're probably getting some PP reps too - possibly on the second unit (which means next to no reps for the Oilers, but that's another story).

Playing Puljujarvi with Rieder on the fourth line isn't bad to me. Brodziak isn't great because he's looked liked a plug now, but he's scored in the past. That line tonight isn't bad. I wouldn't even mind the idea of Puljujarvi, Yamamoto and a skilled young center (Marody?)

That said, I'm not opposed to these guys getting big minutes in the AHL instead and let them excel there before rushing them back...and excelling is NOT 2-2-4 in 4 games or 4-4-8 in 11...




That’s a very valid point, one often overlooked as ‘opportunity’ is generally thought of as a top 6 role with a guy like JP. Could even give them a shift or two with McDavid as I’m sure their C would be relied on for PK duties.

Though, I’d still rather see them both sent down. It would require our GM to do some work to take to our collaborative group for approval however, so there’s that.

The more I think about it and talk it through (in my head), I’m fully supportive of the 1st being shopped for a winger.



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 Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #727940 is a reply to message #727936 ]
Fri, 18 January 2019 19:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Quote:


The more I think about it and talk it through (in my head), I’m fully supportive of the 1st being shopped for a winger.


You can plop me in the “fully against” category.

Really, how much is the return going to push the needle for this club? Selling the 1st rounder isn’t going to suddenly make this team a team that’s going to do anything in the playoffs.

And just think for a minute of the people pulling the levers here. Good grief man. To me, it’s this short sighted approach that’s been killing this organization. Making moves that don’t make sense, just for the sake of making a move. Sorry, I’m not that bored right now.

[Updated on: Fri, 18 January 2019 19:27]


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 Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #727941 is a reply to message #727940 ]
Fri, 18 January 2019 19:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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g2k wrote on Fri, 18 January 2019 19:24

Quote:


The more I think about it and talk it through (in my head), I’m fully supportive of the 1st being shopped for a winger.


You can plop me in the “fully against” category.

Really, how much is the return going to push the needle for this club? Selling the 1st rounder isn’t going to suddenly make this team a team that’s going to do anything in the playoffs.

And just think for a minute of the people pulling the levers here. Good grief man. To me, it’s this short sighted approach that’s been killing this organization. Making moves that don’t make sense, just for the sake of making a move. Sorry, I’m not that bored right now.


Ya, trading a 1st round pick for someone that might not be a part of the team going forward is a mistake made by someone willing to hurt the team to save themselves. Chiarelli has shown much restraint in trading future assets in his time here, I hope that doesn't change.



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 Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #727942 is a reply to message #727941 ]
Fri, 18 January 2019 20:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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NetBOG wrote on Fri, 18 January 2019 19:39

g2k wrote on Fri, 18 January 2019 19:24

Quote:


The more I think about it and talk it through (in my head), I’m fully supportive of the 1st being shopped for a winger.


You can plop me in the “fully against” category.

Really, how much is the return going to push the needle for this club? Selling the 1st rounder isn’t going to suddenly make this team a team that’s going to do anything in the playoffs.

And just think for a minute of the people pulling the levers here. Good grief man. To me, it’s this short sighted approach that’s been killing this organization. Making moves that don’t make sense, just for the sake of making a move. Sorry, I’m not that bored right now.


Ya, trading a 1st round pick for someone that might not be a part of the team going forward is a mistake made by someone willing to hurt the team to save themselves. Chiarelli has shown much restraint in trading future assets in his time here, I hope that doesn't change.

Griffin says hello.

;)



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 Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #727947 is a reply to message #727940 ]
Fri, 18 January 2019 21:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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g2k wrote on Fri, 18 January 2019 19:24

Quote:


The more I think about it and talk it through (in my head), I’m fully supportive of the 1st being shopped for a winger.


You can plop me in the “fully against” category.

Really, how much is the return going to push the needle for this club? Selling the 1st rounder isn’t going to suddenly make this team a team that’s going to do anything in the playoffs.

And just think for a minute of the people pulling the levers here. Good grief man. To me, it’s this short sighted approach that’s been killing this organization. Making moves that don’t make sense, just for the sake of making a move. Sorry, I’m not that bored right now.


The problems with it are just too many:

- There's an excellent chance that all is available is unrestricted free agents to be...we could give up the first round pick and get only 20-25 games out of the acquired player.
- We're a bubble team. We could deal the first rounder, and then still miss the playoffs AND give a pretty good pick to the other team.
- We could do both - ending up with no winger, no draft pick and no playoffs.
- Given who would be responsible for making the pick, it would be most likely that all of the above came to pass.



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 Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #727958 is a reply to message #727947 ]
Sat, 19 January 2019 08:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Fri, 18 January 2019 22:38

g2k wrote on Fri, 18 January 2019 19:24

Quote:


The more I think about it and talk it through (in my head), I’m fully supportive of the 1st being shopped for a winger.


You can plop me in the “fully against” category.

Really, how much is the return going to push the needle for this club? Selling the 1st rounder isn’t going to suddenly make this team a team that’s going to do anything in the playoffs.

And just think for a minute of the people pulling the levers here. Good grief man. To me, it’s this short sighted approach that’s been killing this organization. Making moves that don’t make sense, just for the sake of making a move. Sorry, I’m not that bored right now.


The problems with it are just too many:

- There's an excellent chance that all is available is unrestricted free agents to be...we could give up the first round pick and get only 20-25 games out of the acquired player.
- We're a bubble team. We could deal the first rounder, and then still miss the playoffs AND give a pretty good pick to the other team.
- We could do both - ending up with no winger, no draft pick and no playoffs.
- Given who would be responsible for making the pick, it would be most likely that all of the above came to pass.


If the first is moved (as I stated I’m supportive of, meaning I’d rather see the first moved than Jesse) then it would be for a player with term or someone they would have prelim discussions with prior to the trade to resign. It would be a move made before the deadline, not on deadline day, and the pick would be protected in the event we do miss the playoffs. I don’t think those things are out of the realm of doable and they all are very likely.

The Oilers, as built presently, are built for a heavier style of game... sounds like the playoffs. Yeah, they’d be underdogs once there, but they’re built for the style of game that the Playoffs bring. Anything can happen once you’re in. I’m not saying (with a straight face) that they have a legit shot at the cup. But there’s no doubt in my mind that they can knock off Calgary or San Jose in a best of 7. Winnipeg, Nashville and Vegas would be tougher based on their makeup.

A new, scoring, winger would go a long way in this teams chances of making the playoffs and making some noise once there.



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 Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #727995 is a reply to message #727958 ]
Sat, 19 January 2019 17:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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Oscargasm wrote on Sat, 19 January 2019 08:39

Adam wrote on Fri, 18 January 2019 22:38

g2k wrote on Fri, 18 January 2019 19:24

Quote:


The more I think about it and talk it through (in my head), I’m fully supportive of the 1st being shopped for a winger.


You can plop me in the “fully against” category.

Really, how much is the return going to push the needle for this club? Selling the 1st rounder isn’t going to suddenly make this team a team that’s going to do anything in the playoffs.

And just think for a minute of the people pulling the levers here. Good grief man. To me, it’s this short sighted approach that’s been killing this organization. Making moves that don’t make sense, just for the sake of making a move. Sorry, I’m not that bored right now.


The problems with it are just too many:

- There's an excellent chance that all is available is unrestricted free agents to be...we could give up the first round pick and get only 20-25 games out of the acquired player.
- We're a bubble team. We could deal the first rounder, and then still miss the playoffs AND give a pretty good pick to the other team.
- We could do both - ending up with no winger, no draft pick and no playoffs.
- Given who would be responsible for making the pick, it would be most likely that all of the above came to pass.


If the first is moved (as I stated I’m supportive of, meaning I’d rather see the first moved than Jesse) then it would be for a player with term or someone they would have prelim discussions with prior to the trade to resign. It would be a move made before the deadline, not on deadline day, and the pick would be protected in the event we do miss the playoffs. I don’t think those things are out of the realm of doable and they all are very likely.

The Oilers, as built presently, are built for a heavier style of game... sounds like the playoffs. Yeah, they’d be underdogs once there, but they’re built for the style of game that the Playoffs bring. Anything can happen once you’re in. I’m not saying (with a straight face) that they have a legit shot at the cup. But there’s no doubt in my mind that they can knock off Calgary or San Jose in a best of 7. Winnipeg, Nashville and Vegas would be tougher based on their makeup.

A new, scoring, winger would go a long way in this teams chances of making the playoffs and making some noise once there.

You've made a lot of assumptions about Peter "No Move Clause" Chiarelli's bargaining abilities here.



You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #727998 is a reply to message #727995 ]
Sat, 19 January 2019 17:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm  is currently offline Oscargasm
Messages: 2190
Registered: May 2009
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2 Cups

CrudeRemarks wrote on Sat, 19 January 2019 18:17

Oscargasm wrote on Sat, 19 January 2019 08:39

Adam wrote on Fri, 18 January 2019 22:38

g2k wrote on Fri, 18 January 2019 19:24

Quote:


The more I think about it and talk it through (in my head), I’m fully supportive of the 1st being shopped for a winger.


You can plop me in the “fully against” category.

Really, how much is the return going to push the needle for this club? Selling the 1st rounder isn’t going to suddenly make this team a team that’s going to do anything in the playoffs.

And just think for a minute of the people pulling the levers here. Good grief man. To me, it’s this short sighted approach that’s been killing this organization. Making moves that don’t make sense, just for the sake of making a move. Sorry, I’m not that bored right now.


The problems with it are just too many:

- There's an excellent chance that all is available is unrestricted free agents to be...we could give up the first round pick and get only 20-25 games out of the acquired player.
- We're a bubble team. We could deal the first rounder, and then still miss the playoffs AND give a pretty good pick to the other team.
- We could do both - ending up with no winger, no draft pick and no playoffs.
- Given who would be responsible for making the pick, it would be most likely that all of the above came to pass.


If the first is moved (as I stated I’m supportive of, meaning I’d rather see the first moved than Jesse) then it would be for a player with term or someone they would have prelim discussions with prior to the trade to resign. It would be a move made before the deadline, not on deadline day, and the pick would be protected in the event we do miss the playoffs. I don’t think those things are out of the realm of doable and they all are very likely.

The Oilers, as built presently, are built for a heavier style of game... sounds like the playoffs. Yeah, they’d be underdogs once there, but they’re built for the style of game that the Playoffs bring. Anything can happen once you’re in. I’m not saying (with a straight face) that they have a legit shot at the cup. But there’s no doubt in my mind that they can knock off Calgary or San Jose in a best of 7. Winnipeg, Nashville and Vegas would be tougher based on their makeup.

A new, scoring, winger would go a long way in this teams chances of making the playoffs and making some noise once there.

You've made a lot of assumptions about Peter "No Move Clause" Chiarelli's bargaining abilities here.


Come playoffs and the change of game that takes place in being a heavier game... it’s one of the few times I’ll defend him. icon_biggrin



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 Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #728093 is a reply to message #727958 ]
Sun, 20 January 2019 00:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 10013
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Location: Edmonton, AB

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Oscargasm wrote on Sat, 19 January 2019 08:39

Adam wrote on Fri, 18 January 2019 22:38

g2k wrote on Fri, 18 January 2019 19:24

Quote:


The more I think about it and talk it through (in my head), I’m fully supportive of the 1st being shopped for a winger.


You can plop me in the “fully against” category.

Really, how much is the return going to push the needle for this club? Selling the 1st rounder isn’t going to suddenly make this team a team that’s going to do anything in the playoffs.

And just think for a minute of the people pulling the levers here. Good grief man. To me, it’s this short sighted approach that’s been killing this organization. Making moves that don’t make sense, just for the sake of making a move. Sorry, I’m not that bored right now.


The problems with it are just too many:

- There's an excellent chance that all is available is unrestricted free agents to be...we could give up the first round pick and get only 20-25 games out of the acquired player.
- We're a bubble team. We could deal the first rounder, and then still miss the playoffs AND give a pretty good pick to the other team.
- We could do both - ending up with no winger, no draft pick and no playoffs.
- Given who would be responsible for making the pick, it would be most likely that all of the above came to pass.


If the first is moved (as I stated I’m supportive of, meaning I’d rather see the first moved than Jesse) then it would be for a player with term or someone they would have prelim discussions with prior to the trade to resign. It would be a move made before the deadline, not on deadline day, and the pick would be protected in the event we do miss the playoffs. I don’t think those things are out of the realm of doable and they all are very likely.

The Oilers, as built presently, are built for a heavier style of game... sounds like the playoffs. Yeah, they’d be underdogs once there, but they’re built for the style of game that the Playoffs bring. Anything can happen once you’re in. I’m not saying (with a straight face) that they have a legit shot at the cup. But there’s no doubt in my mind that they can knock off Calgary or San Jose in a best of 7. Winnipeg, Nashville and Vegas would be tougher based on their makeup.

A new, scoring, winger would go a long way in this teams chances of making the playoffs and making some noise once there.


You have way more faith than I do in what a desperate Peter Chiarelli might do. I could definitely see him surrendering the first round pick for a guy who isn't an Oiler a week after that draft is over. I can see him in front of the microphones explaining that the trade for the guy with term just wasn't out there, and that this is the best piece we could get for that pick right now, and that the team feels it has an excellent chance to re-sign that player after the season...



"This team needs an enema!"
#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan #FireBobbyNicks and...SIGH...#FireTheGretzkys

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 Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #728098 is a reply to message #728093 ]
Sun, 20 January 2019 07:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
g2k  is currently offline g2k
Messages: 6940
Registered: January 2003
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Adam wrote on Sun, 20 January 2019 00:50

Oscargasm wrote on Sat, 19 January 2019 08:39

Adam wrote on Fri, 18 January 2019 22:38

g2k wrote on Fri, 18 January 2019 19:24

Quote:


The more I think about it and talk it through (in my head), I’m fully supportive of the 1st being shopped for a winger.


You can plop me in the “fully against” category.

Really, how much is the return going to push the needle for this club? Selling the 1st rounder isn’t going to suddenly make this team a team that’s going to do anything in the playoffs.

And just think for a minute of the people pulling the levers here. Good grief man. To me, it’s this short sighted approach that’s been killing this organization. Making moves that don’t make sense, just for the sake of making a move. Sorry, I’m not that bored right now.


The problems with it are just too many:

- There's an excellent chance that all is available is unrestricted free agents to be...we could give up the first round pick and get only 20-25 games out of the acquired player.
- We're a bubble team. We could deal the first rounder, and then still miss the playoffs AND give a pretty good pick to the other team.
- We could do both - ending up with no winger, no draft pick and no playoffs.
- Given who would be responsible for making the pick, it would be most likely that all of the above came to pass.


If the first is moved (as I stated I’m supportive of, meaning I’d rather see the first moved than Jesse) then it would be for a player with term or someone they would have prelim discussions with prior to the trade to resign. It would be a move made before the deadline, not on deadline day, and the pick would be protected in the event we do miss the playoffs. I don’t think those things are out of the realm of doable and they all are very likely.

The Oilers, as built presently, are built for a heavier style of game... sounds like the playoffs. Yeah, they’d be underdogs once there, but they’re built for the style of game that the Playoffs bring. Anything can happen once you’re in. I’m not saying (with a straight face) that they have a legit shot at the cup. But there’s no doubt in my mind that they can knock off Calgary or San Jose in a best of 7. Winnipeg, Nashville and Vegas would be tougher based on their makeup.

A new, scoring, winger would go a long way in this teams chances of making the playoffs and making some noise once there.


You have way more faith than I do in what a desperate Peter Chiarelli might do. I could definitely see him surrendering the first round pick for a guy who isn't an Oiler a week after that draft is over. I can see him in front of the microphones explaining that the trade for the guy with term just wasn't out there, and that this is the best piece we could get for that pick right now, and that the team feels it has an excellent chance to re-sign that player after the season...

Indeed. A GM that STILL has not learned a damn thing from his mistakes yet.

Look no further than his latest transaction. Sending what little secondary scoring remained on his team away for a player that is marginally better than Keegan Lowe. Then on top of that.....another year of 2.25M for a plug that won’t be in the line up most nights. This transaction was made less than a month ago.

I agree with you Adam. Our friend is putting a lot of faith in a bozo that hasn’t learned anything yet. And I fear he’s now in a situation where he will put his own best interests ahead of what’s best for the club. And the deities above him are actually going sit there and let him die on his own sword......at whatever expense is incurred in the process.



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 Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #728105 is a reply to message #728098 ]
Sun, 20 January 2019 08:36 Go to previous message
Oscargasm  is currently offline Oscargasm
Messages: 2190
Registered: May 2009
Location: Saskatoon

2 Cups

g2k wrote on Sun, 20 January 2019 08:13

Adam wrote on Sun, 20 January 2019 00:50

Oscargasm wrote on Sat, 19 January 2019 08:39

Adam wrote on Fri, 18 January 2019 22:38

g2k wrote on Fri, 18 January 2019 19:24

Quote:


The more I think about it and talk it through (in my head), I’m fully supportive of the 1st being shopped for a winger.


You can plop me in the “fully against” category.

Really, how much is the return going to push the needle for this club? Selling the 1st rounder isn’t going to suddenly make this team a team that’s going to do anything in the playoffs.

And just think for a minute of the people pulling the levers here. Good grief man. To me, it’s this short sighted approach that’s been killing this organization. Making moves that don’t make sense, just for the sake of making a move. Sorry, I’m not that bored right now.


The problems with it are just too many:

- There's an excellent chance that all is available is unrestricted free agents to be...we could give up the first round pick and get only 20-25 games out of the acquired player.
- We're a bubble team. We could deal the first rounder, and then still miss the playoffs AND give a pretty good pick to the other team.
- We could do both - ending up with no winger, no draft pick and no playoffs.
- Given who would be responsible for making the pick, it would be most likely that all of the above came to pass.


If the first is moved (as I stated I’m supportive of, meaning I’d rather see the first moved than Jesse) then it would be for a player with term or someone they would have prelim discussions with prior to the trade to resign. It would be a move made before the deadline, not on deadline day, and the pick would be protected in the event we do miss the playoffs. I don’t think those things are out of the realm of doable and they all are very likely.

The Oilers, as built presently, are built for a heavier style of game... sounds like the playoffs. Yeah, they’d be underdogs once there, but they’re built for the style of game that the Playoffs bring. Anything can happen once you’re in. I’m not saying (with a straight face) that they have a legit shot at the cup. But there’s no doubt in my mind that they can knock off Calgary or San Jose in a best of 7. Winnipeg, Nashville and Vegas would be tougher based on their makeup.

A new, scoring, winger would go a long way in this teams chances of making the playoffs and making some noise once there.


You have way more faith than I do in what a desperate Peter Chiarelli might do. I could definitely see him surrendering the first round pick for a guy who isn't an Oiler a week after that draft is over. I can see him in front of the microphones explaining that the trade for the guy with term just wasn't out there, and that this is the best piece we could get for that pick right now, and that the team feels it has an excellent chance to re-sign that player after the season...

Indeed. A GM that STILL has not learned a damn thing from his mistakes yet.

Look no further than his latest transaction. Sending what little secondary scoring remained on his team away for a player that is marginally better than Keegan Lowe. Then on top of that.....another year of 2.25M for a plug that won’t be in the line up most nights. This transaction was made less than a month ago.

I agree with you Adam. Our friend is putting a lot of faith in a bozo that hasn’t learned anything yet. And I fear he’s now in a situation where he will put his own best interests ahead of what’s best for the club. And the deities above him are actually going sit there and let him die on his own sword......at whatever expense is incurred in the process.


Glad to hear I’ve reached the level of friend icon_wink

I have a strong sense of hope and faith that this team will get the 2nd WC spot, with some help.

This organization has failed to produce a player internally developed, outside of the ‘sure thing’. Maybe it’s patience, or lack thereof. Maybe it’s due to the organization being so flawed internally, which coupled with a lack of patience is a good recipe (not).

I guess what I’m trying to say is I have more faith in this organization trading the 1st for a player that could help in the now (and further), than I do in them keeping the first and wasting yet another young players potential.



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 Re: Oilers select 1st rd (#4) - Jesse Puljujarvi [message #727943 is a reply to message #727922 ]
Fri, 18 January 2019 20:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Xombie  is currently offline Xombie
Messages: 515
Registered: March 2004
Location: K-Town

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GabbyDugan wrote on Fri, 18 January 2019 13:15

Kr55 wrote on Fri, 18 January 2019 12:44


Hitch seems to be working more with him, and even though Pulju is getting dropped down now and then, it sounds like the help isn't stopping, he's willing to try to grind things out with the kid. I feel more confident now that if the kid just is never gonna get it, at least someone is trying to get ideas through to him now, unlike before. Just unfortunate we are at the end of his ELC now, and need to start making harder decisions with him. If we're keeping him, hope he is willing to sign a deal like Virtanen, 1.25m or around there.


https://www.nhl.com/oilers/news/talking-points-hitchcock-tal ks-team-enthusiasm-young-wingers-and-more/c-304026362

"Q: You've got two 20-year-old forwards. How do you balance trying to develop them when you want to win games?

A: You don't. You don't try to develop them. You run them until they run out of gas and when they run out of gas, you back them off and work with them again. When we play them and put them into the lineup, we don't treat them as 20-year-olds; they're players. The next day, like today, when we talked to all of our young guys today we had little individual meetings today, we asked them how they were doing and we asked them where we could help but when they put the sweater on, they better play. That's their job and that's what they got to do, and they know that.

Individually and collectively, they're finding it really hard. This is, I wouldn't say a surprise to them, but it's a little bit overwhelming at times because they found another gear since Christmas time in the League that they didn't anticipate. So, they're having a difficult time. We talked to Jesse about it today and he can't believe the difference in the temperature of the games now. And it's going to take some getting used to but like I said to him, you're expected ti play and you're expected to play well when you put the sweater on."

Hitchcock sees trying to "develop" the young guys differently than the fans like me do....my preference would be to keep both players in Bakersfield and give them copious amounts of ice time until they run out of gas down there, rather than try to develop them in the NHL, which simply is not a "developmental " league. Have to support Hitchcock's plan, though; it's not like he has a lot of viable options on the wings.

Love how Hitch says sweater as opposed to talking like a yankee and saying jersey.



Bob Marley and the (Hartford) Wailers.

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