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 Review: Edmonton @ Detroit (Game #22) [message #703352]
Wed, 22 November 2017 19:20 Go to next message
OilFans  is currently offline OilFans
Messages: 2966
Registered: February 2006
Location: Edmonton

2 Cups

6
2
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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Detroit (Game #22) [message #703354 is a reply to message #703352 ]
Wed, 22 November 2017 19:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stotto  is currently offline stotto
Messages: 130
Registered: November 2015
Location: edmonton

No Cups

Ouch! I hurt myself jumping off and back on the bandwagon.

Lots of positives tonight. Auvitu can actually move the puck and it made a big difference.

Goals from unlikely players that need to get it going. Nice!

If they can string a few wins together they're back in the race.

Buffalo, Boston and Phoenix. A fairly favorable schedule to gather a few points.

Nice to see a solid effort by most of the team.



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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Detroit (Game #22) [message #703355 is a reply to message #703352 ]
Wed, 22 November 2017 20:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Suomalainen  is currently offline Suomalainen
Messages: 2444
Registered: May 2002
Location: Austin, TX

2 Cups

Listened to this one on XM radio - sounded like they played well, were they visually better too? Thankful for the secondary scoring.


97.

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Detroit (Game #22) [message #703357 is a reply to message #703355 ]
Wed, 22 November 2017 20:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GabbyDugan  is currently offline GabbyDugan
Messages: 1108
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton, AB

1 Cup

Suomalainen wrote on Wed, 22 November 2017 20:03

sounded like they played well, were they visually better too? Thankful for the secondary scoring.


....haven't seen too many Oiler games this season, but this one WAS visually pleasant to me....kind of up-and-down in the first period, domination by the Oilers in the second, and a nice shut-down effort in the third...a pretty decent road game, and a totally different effort from the Oilers compared to last night in St. Louis...no passengers tonight....

Agree that Puljujarvi looked good in both ends of the rink tonight. .....stilll have hopes he can get used to Edmonton, North American hockey, and the English language...he's pretty young....hope he gets a few breaks...

...I've been pumping Nurse's tires right from the start, and it looks to me like he is gaining some confidence this season, although from what I've read he still isn't consistent from game-to-game.

Talbot was okay tonight, not too many spectacular saves, but he sure looked better than what I saw of him the last couple of games....


Have a great Thanksgiving down in Texas, Suomalainen.....and Black Friday...and Cyber Monday....




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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Detroit (Game #22) [message #703356 is a reply to message #703352 ]
Wed, 22 November 2017 20:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
WhoreableGuy  is currently offline WhoreableGuy
Messages: 1499
Registered: August 2006
Location: Calgary

1 Cup

Puljujarvi has been good since his call up but he was fantastic today. He was great defensively too!

Maybe in some cases it’s good to have a young player playing more than 6 minutes in the Bigs. I was following him in the AHL and the breaks in between games were brutal. At least with the Oilers he’s in game situations.



"Bah Gawd! Would somebody stop the damn draft!"

- Jim Ross calling the NHL Draft Lotto 2015 as the Oilers win

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Detroit (Game #22) [message #703358 is a reply to message #703352 ]
Wed, 22 November 2017 20:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
vsove  is currently offline vsove
Messages: 1057
Registered: May 2006
Location: Edmonton

1 Cup

I guess every streak starts with one win?

Still think there are some serious problems with this team, largely due to Chia's incompetence, but it was good to see them win convincingly.

They need to string together several before I have any faith. But it's nice to see Puljujarvi actually might live up to his drafting, he's been pretty good. Luck with him and Yamamoto may be our only hope of covering up Chia's blunders.



No Mo' Lowe | Fire McLellan | Fire everyone.

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Detroit (Game #22) [message #703359 is a reply to message #703352 ]
Wed, 22 November 2017 21:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently online Kr55
Messages: 12882
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Auvitu and Pulju really should be on at least the 2nd PP unit. Benning or Russell should not be in the PP at all for a while (forever for Russell). After all the crap we've seen with Russell and Gryba both in the lineup, I hope Auvitu gets a chance to stick for a while. I kind him pretty entertaining out there. Hope these comments aren't a kiss of death for him and he's gonna look dumb on multiple GA's next game :)


Overall, it was really nice to see this team respond. Hopefully they can finally start building off a good win. Next 3 games against struggling teams. If there ever was a chance to do something, now is it. Now has to be it.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Detroit (Game #22) [message #703360 is a reply to message #703359 ]
Wed, 22 November 2017 21:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
vsove  is currently offline vsove
Messages: 1057
Registered: May 2006
Location: Edmonton

1 Cup

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 22 November 2017 21:06

Auvitu and Pulju really should be on at least the 2nd PP unit. Benning or Russell should not be in the PP at all for a while (forever for Russell). After all the crap we've seen with Russell and Gryba both in the lineup, I hope Auvitu gets a chance to stick for a while. I kind him pretty entertaining out there. Hope these comments aren't a kiss of death for him and he's gonna look dumb on multiple GA's next game :)


Overall, it was really nice to see this team respond. Hopefully they can finally start building off a good win. Next 3 games against struggling teams. If there ever was a chance to do something, now is it. Now has to be it.


Auvitu was a nice surprise. Reasonably competent defensively, and he made good plays to get the puck out.



No Mo' Lowe | Fire McLellan | Fire everyone.

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Detroit (Game #22) [message #703361 is a reply to message #703352 ]
Wed, 22 November 2017 21:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jds308  is currently offline jds308
Messages: 1106
Registered: September 2007
Location: Summerland

1 Cup

Even a broken clock is right twice a day, not getting to excited here. Only saw the 3rd period but according to Stauffer on the radio Detroit looked off. Good on the Oilers for putting a team away when they don't bring their A game though. TMac needs to run the video from the St. Louis beat down right before the next few games.

Nice one-timer goal from Puljujarvi late in the 3rd. Haven't seen an Oilers forward beat a goalie on a one-timer that far away in..... who knows how long. More of that please.



I like to build stuff & things.
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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Detroit (Game #22) [message #703364 is a reply to message #703352 ]
Wed, 22 November 2017 22:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RankinSpankin  is currently offline RankinSpankin
Messages: 207
Registered: June 2013
Location: Fort McMurray

No Cups

The best part of the game was the McClelland presser. Watching it gave me hope, if this team pulls out of the slump it’s all him and the players because Chia iced a worse team this year. At the end of the presser he calls out the media for picking on Klef. Good stuff.


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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Detroit (Game #22) [message #703372 is a reply to message #703352 ]
Thu, 23 November 2017 00:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
Messages: 8414
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

Good news! The Oilers are now only 5 points out of the playoffs, unfortunately it's five points behind a 6 team tie for the 2nd wildcard spot. Meanwhile, the 3rd place Central team (Smashville) has more points than the first place Pacific team (Vegas?!?!).


This is fine.

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Detroit (Game #22) [message #703373 is a reply to message #703372 ]
Thu, 23 November 2017 04:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Xombie  is currently offline Xombie
Messages: 753
Registered: March 2004
Location: E-Town

No Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 22 November 2017 23:13

Good news! The Oilers are now only 5 points out of the playoffs, unfortunately it's five points behind a 6 team tie for the 2nd wildcard spot. Meanwhile, the 3rd place Central team (Smashville) has more points than the first place Pacific team (Vegas?!?!).

If I was kr55 I'd I post a gif of Llyod Christmas.

So you're telling me there's a chance!?



Bob Marley and the (Hartford) Wailers.

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Detroit (Game #22) [message #703380 is a reply to message #703373 ]
Thu, 23 November 2017 07:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Pseudoreality  is currently offline Pseudoreality
Messages: 537
Registered: December 2002
Location: Yellowknife

No Cups

I watched two minutes of the game. It was just enough to see Talbot give up the terrible 2-2 goal. Man that guy needs to learn to hug the post. The scouting report on him must be pretty easy. Just throw it on net at a horrible angle and it will go in. I'm surprised to learn then ended up winning, but I still have no faith.


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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Detroit (Game #22) [message #703381 is a reply to message #703380 ]
Thu, 23 November 2017 07:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
welcometotheOC  is currently offline welcometotheOC
Messages: 223
Registered: April 2010
Location: Also, sadly, Cowtown

No Cups

His short-side goal against St. Louis was terrible, but the one you are talking about went off the back of Nuge's jersey and deflected to hit the inside of the far post. I wouldn't blame him too much for that one.


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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Detroit (Game #22) [message #703384 is a reply to message #703381 ]
Thu, 23 November 2017 08:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 4088
Registered: January 2016

4 Cups

Great game and much needed. I hope that they can build on it and get on a roll. The one frustrating thing is a game like that shows that they are capable of being a decent team. Talbot is a good goalie, he just has to figure out what the hell he changed from last year. The defense while not great has the ability to be good enough to win. The forward group has enough talent that there is no reason they shouldn't be able to score. So while Chia deserves some blame, the coaches deserve some blame, the bulk is on the shoulders of the players. Pull your head out of your butts and play like to can and good things will happen. I hope it continues.

For players. It's still early but has McDavid found himself his Connor Sheary in Caggulia? 3 goals in 3 games.
Auvitu showed the good parts of his game. YAY!! You still have to cover your eyes in the defensive zone. I would give him a shot on the second unit PP. Why not.
Puljujarvi should get a shot on the first unit PP. I wouldn't move him up the lines, I like giving him soft minutes but give him some extra time on the PP in Letestu's spot. I think Letestu would be more effective with less minutes and if you want to know if he can one time the puck off the left side. HOLY CRAP, that was a bomb from a long ways out.
Lucic is picking it up big time. I have noticed he has more jump in his step since being bumped up to McDavid's line as he realizes he has to to keep up. He's up to 14 pts in 22 games. That's pretty good. Lucic has 2 points on the PP and 12 5 on 5. Lots of people complained about his lack of 5 on 5 scoring. Are people happy now!!
Khaira continues to play well. Has he FINALLY figured out what he needs to do to be effective.
Nurse. A big game, get got another goal. 2 goals in 2 games. Didn't I say flood gates will open once he got the first one out of the way. icon_lol

Good game by all. They need to do it again in Buffalo

[Updated on: Thu, 23 November 2017 08:31]


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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Detroit (Game #22) [message #703388 is a reply to message #703384 ]
Thu, 23 November 2017 09:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
Messages: 2098
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver

2 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 07:14

Great game and much needed. I hope that they can build on it and get on a roll. The one frustrating thing is a game like that shows that they are capable of being a decent team. Talbot is a good goalie, he just has to figure out what the hell he changed from last year. The defense while not great has the ability to be good enough to win. The forward group has enough talent that there is no reason they shouldn't be able to score. So while Chia deserves some blame, the coaches deserve some blame, the bulk is on the shoulders of the players. Pull your head out of your butts and play like to can and good things will happen. I hope it continues.



I find it interesting that we can look at this season and have such a fundamental disagreement on what's wrong with the team. From my perspective, the bulk of the players are performing about as expected. Outside of Talbot, is there anyone that you're really shocked by their performance this year? Talbot's played in 19 or 20 of the first 22 games? That's too much imo.

Chia has had the opportunity to remake this entire roster, I put the bulk of the blame on him. Like, I don't think Ryan Strome is a great player, but I don't blame him for being on the roster. He's playing exactly how I expected him to.

And as for the team showing what they're capable of, I've said before, I think the inconsistency comes from a lack of skill not effort.



Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19 pace: 234 GF / 274 GA (-40)

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Detroit (Game #22) [message #703389 is a reply to message #703388 ]
Thu, 23 November 2017 09:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NZ Oiler Fan  is currently offline NZ Oiler Fan
Messages: 1625
Registered: October 2006
Location: Kensington, PEI

1 Cup

Goose wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 09:04

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 07:14

Great game and much needed. I hope that they can build on it and get on a roll. The one frustrating thing is a game like that shows that they are capable of being a decent team. Talbot is a good goalie, he just has to figure out what the hell he changed from last year. The defense while not great has the ability to be good enough to win. The forward group has enough talent that there is no reason they shouldn't be able to score. So while Chia deserves some blame, the coaches deserve some blame, the bulk is on the shoulders of the players. Pull your head out of your butts and play like to can and good things will happen. I hope it continues.



I find it interesting that we can look at this season and have such a fundamental disagreement on what's wrong with the team. From my perspective, the bulk of the players are performing about as expected. Outside of Talbot, is there anyone that you're really shocked by their performance this year? Talbot's played in 19 or 20 of the first 22 games? That's too much imo.

Chia has had the opportunity to remake this entire roster, I put the bulk of the blame on him. Like, I don't think Ryan Strome is a great player, but I don't blame him for being on the roster. He's playing exactly how I expected him to.

And as for the team showing what they're capable of, I've said before, I think the inconsistency comes from a lack of skill not effort.



I'd put Klefbom in that category. He's been awful, especially compared to how well he played last season. Even when he was with Larsson he was bad.
Incidentally, I find it interesting how much better Nurse has looked since being moved with Larsson.



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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Detroit (Game #22) [message #703398 is a reply to message #703389 ]
Thu, 23 November 2017 09:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
Messages: 2098
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver

2 Cups

NZ Oiler Fan wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 08:14


Incidentally, I find it interesting how much better Nurse has looked since being moved with Larsson.


Yes, not playing with Gryba or Russell is good for the career.



Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19 pace: 234 GF / 274 GA (-40)

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Detroit (Game #22) [message #703467 is a reply to message #703389 ]
Fri, 24 November 2017 07:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Prince Albert 1  is currently offline Prince Albert 1
Messages: 524
Registered: February 2006
Location: Prince Albert,Sk

No Cups

NZ Oiler Fan wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 10:14

Goose wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 09:04

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 07:14

Great game and much needed. I hope that they can build on it and get on a roll. The one frustrating thing is a game like that shows that they are capable of being a decent team. Talbot is a good goalie, he just has to figure out what the hell he changed from last year. The defense while not great has the ability to be good enough to win. The forward group has enough talent that there is no reason they shouldn't be able to score. So while Chia deserves some blame, the coaches deserve some blame, the bulk is on the shoulders of the players. Pull your head out of your butts and play like to can and good things will happen. I hope it continues.



I find it interesting that we can look at this season and have such a fundamental disagreement on what's wrong with the team. From my perspective, the bulk of the players are performing about as expected. Outside of Talbot, is there anyone that you're really shocked by their performance this year? Talbot's played in 19 or 20 of the first 22 games? That's too much imo.

Chia has had the opportunity to remake this entire roster, I put the bulk of the blame on him. Like, I don't think Ryan Strome is a great player, but I don't blame him for being on the roster. He's playing exactly how I expected him to.

And as for the team showing what they're capable of, I've said before, I think the inconsistency comes from a lack of skill not effort.



I'd put Klefbom in that category. He's been awful, especially compared to how well he played last season. Even when he was with Larsson he was bad.
Incidentally, I find it interesting how much better Nurse has looked since being moved with Larsson.


I think Nurse was looking really good before he got moved up with Larsson as well. I believe that's precisely why he got moved there.



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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Detroit (Game #22) [message #703399 is a reply to message #703388 ]
Thu, 23 November 2017 10:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 4088
Registered: January 2016

4 Cups

Goose wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 09:04

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 07:14

Great game and much needed. I hope that they can build on it and get on a roll. The one frustrating thing is a game like that shows that they are capable of being a decent team. Talbot is a good goalie, he just has to figure out what the hell he changed from last year. The defense while not great has the ability to be good enough to win. The forward group has enough talent that there is no reason they shouldn't be able to score. So while Chia deserves some blame, the coaches deserve some blame, the bulk is on the shoulders of the players. Pull your head out of your butts and play like to can and good things will happen. I hope it continues.



I find it interesting that we can look at this season and have such a fundamental disagreement on what's wrong with the team. From my perspective, the bulk of the players are performing about as expected. Outside of Talbot, is there anyone that you're really shocked by their performance this year? Talbot's played in 19 or 20 of the first 22 games? That's too much imo.

Chia has had the opportunity to remake this entire roster, I put the bulk of the blame on him. Like, I don't think Ryan Strome is a great player, but I don't blame him for being on the roster. He's playing exactly how I expected him to.

And as for the team showing what they're capable of, I've said before, I think the inconsistency comes from a lack of skill not effort.

So you mentioned Talbot which is good. It's almost impossible to win if your goalie is giving you .900 or below goaltending.

To the rest of the players.

You expected Klefbom after last season to be -14 this year and for the majority of the season look like he's a raw rookie or AHL dman? That's how he's been for the majority of the season. They have started to scale back his minutes but for a big chunk of the year, he was playing the most mins. I would assume the expectation of Klefbom for this season was to be at minimum a decent top 4 guy. He hasn't been close to that for most of the year and has had what 3 good games? I don't honestly know so please tell me. You can't win when you have a dman playing as much as he does, being that bad.

You expected Benning to struggle as bad as he has? He's a young dman, you expect some ups and down but he's been terrible for most of the season and looked like he is a borderline NHLer at best. I would assume the expectation for Benning was to at least be an NHLer every night. Can you honestly say he's looked like an NHLer every night? You can't win if a guy playing regular mins on your blueline isn't playing at an NHL level most nights. You definitely can't win when you have 2 guys basically every night being train wrecks on defense every night.

You expected that Drai who had 10 PP goals and 27 PP points last year would have ZERO PP points in 18 games? How many 2-1 games did they lose where their PP did nothing and where a PP goal or 2, maybe a few PP points would have allowed them to win.

You expected Kassian to have no goals in 22 games? He had 7 last year and had what was it 4 or 5 called back. With as many goals as he scored and got called back, I would have to think the expectation would be to have a lot 1 or 2 in 22 games. How many breakaways has he had where he didn't score this year? 4 or 5 at least I think.

There is 4 guys off the top of my head who are playing WAY below expectation and then you factor in Talbot. I know you are a beat on Chia guy, I get it. I also know that Chia deserves some blame no doubt. But to pin this all on Chia or even the coaches when a ton of the players have been flat out lousy is wrong in my opinion. You could swap out Russell who I know you hate for whoever you want and still have Eberle but with Klefbom, Benning, Talbot being as bad as they have been for most of the year, it wouldn't make a difference. How many garbage goals has Talbot let in this year that have nothing to do with defense. I can think of 3 in the last 4 games alone. So while I agree that Chia needs to wear some of this but the Oilers could have Pronger and Lidstrom back there and if your goalie is giving you .900 or less goaltending, you aren't winning. Talbot has a .901 save percentage and a 3.13 GA. That's not NHL numbers.

[Updated on: Thu, 23 November 2017 10:08]


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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Detroit (Game #22) [message #703401 is a reply to message #703399 ]
Thu, 23 November 2017 10:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ziltoid  is currently offline ziltoid
Messages: 402
Registered: January 2011

No Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 10:02

Goose wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 09:04

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 07:14

Great game and much needed. I hope that they can build on it and get on a roll. The one frustrating thing is a game like that shows that they are capable of being a decent team. Talbot is a good goalie, he just has to figure out what the hell he changed from last year. The defense while not great has the ability to be good enough to win. The forward group has enough talent that there is no reason they shouldn't be able to score. So while Chia deserves some blame, the coaches deserve some blame, the bulk is on the shoulders of the players. Pull your head out of your butts and play like to can and good things will happen. I hope it continues.



I find it interesting that we can look at this season and have such a fundamental disagreement on what's wrong with the team. From my perspective, the bulk of the players are performing about as expected. Outside of Talbot, is there anyone that you're really shocked by their performance this year? Talbot's played in 19 or 20 of the first 22 games? That's too much imo.

Chia has had the opportunity to remake this entire roster, I put the bulk of the blame on him. Like, I don't think Ryan Strome is a great player, but I don't blame him for being on the roster. He's playing exactly how I expected him to.

And as for the team showing what they're capable of, I've said before, I think the inconsistency comes from a lack of skill not effort.

So you mentioned Talbot which is good. It's almost impossible to win if your goalie is giving you .900 or below goaltending.

To the rest of the players.

You expected Klefbom after last season to be -14 this year and for the majority of the season look like he's a raw rookie or AHL dman? That's how he's been for the majority of the season. They have started to scale back his minutes but for a big chunk of the year, he was playing the most mins. I would assume the expectation of Klefbom for this season was to be at minimum a decent top 4 guy. He hasn't been close to that for most of the year and has had what 3 good games? I don't honestly know so please tell me. You can't win when you have a dman playing as much as he does, being that bad.

You expected Benning to struggle as bad as he has? He's a young dman, you expect some ups and down but he's been terrible for most of the season and looked like he is a borderline NHLer at best. I would assume the expectation for Benning was to at least be an NHLer every night. Can you honestly say he's looked like an NHLer every night? You can't win if a guy playing regular mins on your blueline isn't playing at an NHL level most nights. You definitely can't win when you have 2 guys basically every night being train wrecks on defense every night.

You expected that Drai who had 10 PP goals and 27 PP points last year would have ZERO PP points in 18 games? How many 2-1 games did they lose where their PP did nothing and where a PP goal or 2, maybe a few PP points would have allowed them to win.

You expected Kassian to have no goals in 22 games? He had 7 last year and had what was it 4 or 5 called back. With as many goals as he scored and got called back, I would have to think the expectation would be to have a lot 1 or 2 in 22 games. How many breakaways has he had where he didn't score this year? 4 or 5 at least I think.

There is 4 guys off the top of my head who are playing WAY below expectation and then you factor in Talbot. I know you are a beat on Chia guy, I get it. I also know that Chia deserves some blame no doubt. But to pin this all on Chia or even the coaches when a ton of the players have been flat out lousy is wrong in my opinion. You could swap out Russell who I know you hate for whoever you want and still have Eberle but with Klefbom, Benning, Talbot being as bad as they have been for most of the year, it wouldn't make a difference. How many garbage goals has Talbot let in this year that have nothing to do with defense. I can think of 3 in the last 4 games alone.


I don't think it is wise to anchor performance expectations against last season. Multiple players had career years and several were rookies riding high on the thrill of being in the NHL. Yes, the PP has been bad and that falls at the feet of both the coaches and the players, but last year was driven by abnormal performances. Lucic had a career year on the PP, as did Letestu and Klefbom.

I think the only players on the roster that are performing below their skill levels are Klefbom, Benning, and Talbot, and I don't think they are performing as far below their average as some people think. I am still bullish on all three players, for the record. Aside from that, everyone else is pretty much on par for what we can reasonably expect from them.



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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Detroit (Game #22) [message #703404 is a reply to message #703401 ]
Thu, 23 November 2017 10:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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ziltoid wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 10:17

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 10:02

Goose wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 09:04

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 07:14

Great game and much needed. I hope that they can build on it and get on a roll. The one frustrating thing is a game like that shows that they are capable of being a decent team. Talbot is a good goalie, he just has to figure out what the hell he changed from last year. The defense while not great has the ability to be good enough to win. The forward group has enough talent that there is no reason they shouldn't be able to score. So while Chia deserves some blame, the coaches deserve some blame, the bulk is on the shoulders of the players. Pull your head out of your butts and play like to can and good things will happen. I hope it continues.



I find it interesting that we can look at this season and have such a fundamental disagreement on what's wrong with the team. From my perspective, the bulk of the players are performing about as expected. Outside of Talbot, is there anyone that you're really shocked by their performance this year? Talbot's played in 19 or 20 of the first 22 games? That's too much imo.

Chia has had the opportunity to remake this entire roster, I put the bulk of the blame on him. Like, I don't think Ryan Strome is a great player, but I don't blame him for being on the roster. He's playing exactly how I expected him to.

And as for the team showing what they're capable of, I've said before, I think the inconsistency comes from a lack of skill not effort.

So you mentioned Talbot which is good. It's almost impossible to win if your goalie is giving you .900 or below goaltending.

To the rest of the players.

You expected Klefbom after last season to be -14 this year and for the majority of the season look like he's a raw rookie or AHL dman? That's how he's been for the majority of the season. They have started to scale back his minutes but for a big chunk of the year, he was playing the most mins. I would assume the expectation of Klefbom for this season was to be at minimum a decent top 4 guy. He hasn't been close to that for most of the year and has had what 3 good games? I don't honestly know so please tell me. You can't win when you have a dman playing as much as he does, being that bad.

You expected Benning to struggle as bad as he has? He's a young dman, you expect some ups and down but he's been terrible for most of the season and looked like he is a borderline NHLer at best. I would assume the expectation for Benning was to at least be an NHLer every night. Can you honestly say he's looked like an NHLer every night? You can't win if a guy playing regular mins on your blueline isn't playing at an NHL level most nights. You definitely can't win when you have 2 guys basically every night being train wrecks on defense every night.

You expected that Drai who had 10 PP goals and 27 PP points last year would have ZERO PP points in 18 games? How many 2-1 games did they lose where their PP did nothing and where a PP goal or 2, maybe a few PP points would have allowed them to win.

You expected Kassian to have no goals in 22 games? He had 7 last year and had what was it 4 or 5 called back. With as many goals as he scored and got called back, I would have to think the expectation would be to have a lot 1 or 2 in 22 games. How many breakaways has he had where he didn't score this year? 4 or 5 at least I think.

There is 4 guys off the top of my head who are playing WAY below expectation and then you factor in Talbot. I know you are a beat on Chia guy, I get it. I also know that Chia deserves some blame no doubt. But to pin this all on Chia or even the coaches when a ton of the players have been flat out lousy is wrong in my opinion. You could swap out Russell who I know you hate for whoever you want and still have Eberle but with Klefbom, Benning, Talbot being as bad as they have been for most of the year, it wouldn't make a difference. How many garbage goals has Talbot let in this year that have nothing to do with defense. I can think of 3 in the last 4 games alone.


I don't think it is wise to anchor performance expectations against last season. Multiple players had career years and several were rookies riding high on the thrill of being in the NHL. Yes, the PP has been bad and that falls at the feet of both the coaches and the players, but last year was driven by abnormal performances. Lucic had a career year on the PP, as did Letestu and Klefbom.

I think the only players on the roster that are performing below their skill levels are Klefbom, Benning, and Talbot, and I don't think they are performing as far below their average as some people think. I am still bullish on all three players, for the record. Aside from that, everyone else is pretty much on par for what we can reasonably expect from them.



Don't get me wrong on those 3, I am believers in them as well. I fully believe that Talbot will turn it around. I believe that Klefbom is going to be an excellent dman, probably a 2-3. I believe that Benning at worse will be a good #5 and quite possibly a solid #4 but you can't win if your goalie is at .900. I mentioned he has had 3 bad goals in the last 4 games. How many more stinkers has he let in? I can think of 1 for sure, maybe 2 in the Canucks game game 2. I can think of several times where the opposition has a clean, unscreened shot and Talbot just lets it through him. I don't have the exact number but he might be close to 10 suspect goals in the 20 games he's started. Most good starters don't even let in that many in an entire season. What's average NHL goaltending, .910? If Talbot was even giving them average goaltending, they'd have several more wins for sure.



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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Detroit (Game #22) [message #703407 is a reply to message #703404 ]
Thu, 23 November 2017 10:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ziltoid  is currently offline ziltoid
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 10:33



Don't get me wrong on those 3, I am believers in them as well. I fully believe that Talbot will turn it around. I believe that Klefbom is going to be an excellent dman, probably a 2-3. I believe that Benning at worse will be a good #5 and quite possibly a solid #4 but you can't win if your goalie is at .900. I mentioned he has had 3 bad goals in the last 4 games. How many more stinkers has he let in? I can think of 1 for sure, maybe 2 in the Canucks game game 2. I can think of several times where the opposition has a clean, unscreened shot and Talbot just lets it through him. I don't have the exact number but he might be close to 10 suspect goals in the 20 games he's started. Most good starters don't even let in that many in an entire season. What's average NHL goaltending, .910? If Talbot was even giving them average goaltending, they'd have several more wins for sure.



I don't think a 1% increase in his save percentage is going to lead to several more wins. He's faced 573 shot this season. With that 1% bump, that's 6 fewer goals he lets in, which is 0.3 goals per game (he's at 20 GP). That may be the difference between where we are now and being a .500 team, but odds are about half of those 6 goals come from blow-outs like against the Blues. It does not matter if you lose 8-3 or 7-3, you still lose. (as an aside, I believe we have been blow-out 5-ish times this season, depending on your criteria for a blow-out).



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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Detroit (Game #22) [message #703412 is a reply to message #703407 ]
Thu, 23 November 2017 11:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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ziltoid wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 10:47

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 10:33



Don't get me wrong on those 3, I am believers in them as well. I fully believe that Talbot will turn it around. I believe that Klefbom is going to be an excellent dman, probably a 2-3. I believe that Benning at worse will be a good #5 and quite possibly a solid #4 but you can't win if your goalie is at .900. I mentioned he has had 3 bad goals in the last 4 games. How many more stinkers has he let in? I can think of 1 for sure, maybe 2 in the Canucks game game 2. I can think of several times where the opposition has a clean, unscreened shot and Talbot just lets it through him. I don't have the exact number but he might be close to 10 suspect goals in the 20 games he's started. Most good starters don't even let in that many in an entire season. What's average NHL goaltending, .910? If Talbot was even giving them average goaltending, they'd have several more wins for sure.



I don't think a 1% increase in his save percentage is going to lead to several more wins. He's faced 573 shot this season. With that 1% bump, that's 6 fewer goals he lets in, which is 0.3 goals per game (he's at 20 GP). That may be the difference between where we are now and being a .500 team, but odds are about half of those 6 goals come from blow-outs like against the Blues. It does not matter if you lose 8-3 or 7-3, you still lose. (as an aside, I believe we have been blow-out 5-ish times this season, depending on your criteria for a blow-out).

I disagree. A save or 2 can make all the difference in the world to a team. No team will have a perfect game, you need your goalie to make a save once in awhile to bail you out. A big save can wake your team up, a big save can give your team a breather or give you life. Here is a good example. First Oilers- Caps game, Oilers lost 5-2. Here is a link to all the goals. https://www.nhl.com/gamecenter/wsh-vs-edm/2017/10/28/2017020 166#game=2017020166,game_state=final

Oilers come out to a 2-0 lead. They are all over the Caps. Holtby kept them in it. Less than 20 seconds left in the first, Pelley scores. Pelley isn't an offensive player, it's not like he has a bomb, it doesn't look like he gets off a great shot. It goes right through Talbot. Would it have been a good save? Yes but you got to make that one. It goes right through him. That goal gave the Caps life. The Oilers made 1 mistake and bang it's in.

Watch the Eller goal. He's off to the side and gets off a one timer. It's a good shot but from that angle he doesn't have a ton to shoot at and Talbot saw and read it all the way and again it goes right through Talbot. We aren't talking Ovechkin here where he is picking the top corner with a 100 MPH slapper, it's Lars Eller and it was a foot off the ice. Would it have been a good save, sure but NHL goalies are supposed to make good saves routinely. He wasn't even screened. Stop the damn puck. That tied the game. So that's 2 goals that he saw and read that went right through him from 2 guys who you wouldn't call snipers what so ever.

The Oilers are down 3-2 in the 3rd, go watch the second Kuznetsov goal. It's terrible. You can't let that goal in. Great effort but Kuznetsov, sure but he scored it from behind the net through his feet. That can't go in. That made it 4-2, game over. Make a save.

That is one game. There have been lots of others where he lets in a crap goal after the Oilers had a good start some of them have been his first or second shot of the game. He doesn't give them a big save when they need it. They battle back to tie it, then he gives up a goal that you'd expect him to maybe have. I am going to come across as piling on Talbot and I don;t mean too because I am a believer. I think he is a top 10 goalie when he is on but he hasn't been good at all this year and the Oilers need him to be Talbot.



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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Detroit (Game #22) [message #703429 is a reply to message #703412 ]
Thu, 23 November 2017 14:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ziltoid  is currently offline ziltoid
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 11:21

ziltoid wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 10:47

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 10:33



Don't get me wrong on those 3, I am believers in them as well. I fully believe that Talbot will turn it around. I believe that Klefbom is going to be an excellent dman, probably a 2-3. I believe that Benning at worse will be a good #5 and quite possibly a solid #4 but you can't win if your goalie is at .900. I mentioned he has had 3 bad goals in the last 4 games. How many more stinkers has he let in? I can think of 1 for sure, maybe 2 in the Canucks game game 2. I can think of several times where the opposition has a clean, unscreened shot and Talbot just lets it through him. I don't have the exact number but he might be close to 10 suspect goals in the 20 games he's started. Most good starters don't even let in that many in an entire season. What's average NHL goaltending, .910? If Talbot was even giving them average goaltending, they'd have several more wins for sure.



I don't think a 1% increase in his save percentage is going to lead to several more wins. He's faced 573 shot this season. With that 1% bump, that's 6 fewer goals he lets in, which is 0.3 goals per game (he's at 20 GP). That may be the difference between where we are now and being a .500 team, but odds are about half of those 6 goals come from blow-outs like against the Blues. It does not matter if you lose 8-3 or 7-3, you still lose. (as an aside, I believe we have been blow-out 5-ish times this season, depending on your criteria for a blow-out).

I disagree. A save or 2 can make all the difference in the world to a team. No team will have a perfect game, you need your goalie to make a save once in awhile to bail you out. A big save can wake your team up, a big save can give your team a breather or give you life. Here is a good example. First Oilers- Caps game, Oilers lost 5-2. Here is a link to all the goals. https://www.nhl.com/gamecenter/wsh-vs-edm/2017/10/28/2017020 166#game=2017020166,game_state=final

Oilers come out to a 2-0 lead. They are all over the Caps. Holtby kept them in it. Less than 20 seconds left in the first, Pelley scores. Pelley isn't an offensive player, it's not like he has a bomb, it doesn't look like he gets off a great shot. It goes right through Talbot. Would it have been a good save? Yes but you got to make that one. It goes right through him. That goal gave the Caps life. The Oilers made 1 mistake and bang it's in.

Watch the Eller goal. He's off to the side and gets off a one timer. It's a good shot but from that angle he doesn't have a ton to shoot at and Talbot saw and read it all the way and again it goes right through Talbot. We aren't talking Ovechkin here where he is picking the top corner with a 100 MPH slapper, it's Lars Eller and it was a foot off the ice. Would it have been a good save, sure but NHL goalies are supposed to make good saves routinely. He wasn't even screened. Stop the damn puck. That tied the game. So that's 2 goals that he saw and read that went right through him from 2 guys who you wouldn't call snipers what so ever.

The Oilers are down 3-2 in the 3rd, go watch the second Kuznetsov goal. It's terrible. You can't let that goal in. Great effort but Kuznetsov, sure but he scored it from behind the net through his feet. That can't go in. That made it 4-2, game over. Make a save.

That is one game. There have been lots of others where he lets in a crap goal after the Oilers had a good start some of them have been his first or second shot of the game. He doesn't give them a big save when they need it. They battle back to tie it, then he gives up a goal that you'd expect him to maybe have. I am going to come across as piling on Talbot and I don;t mean too because I am a believer. I think he is a top 10 goalie when he is on but he hasn't been good at all this year and the Oilers need him to be Talbot.


But you can't say that those 6 additional saves would come in those swing moments. Your original argument was if Talbot was average this season, we would have a meaningfully better record. That is not a tenable position. The argument from your previous post is, "if Talbot makes timely saves, the Oilers would have a meaningfully better record." Everyone agrees with that, but to suggest that the team would be meaningfully better with average .910 SV% is just not true.

Like I said, a 1% increase would result in 6 fewer goals against. Rather than break everything down as a function of shot totals per game, let's simplify and assume that every game played has an equal probability of having one of these additional saves.

We have won 8/20 games with Talbot in net, or 40%. Thus 40% of those additional saves would have come in games we already won. That is 2.4 saves (lets just round that down to 2). So that is 4 additional saves in games that we lost. If we assume the absolute best case scenario whereby all of those 4 additional saves lead to us winning games we otherwise would have lost, we would be a .500 team today. That is extremely unlikely to the point I would be willing to bet my life and the life of my family on that NOT happening. Realistically, taking everything into consideration, I think 1 of those additional saves would have won us a game. I don't feel like trying to calculate everything (you'd have to look at shots, number of games lost by x,y,x # of goals, time spent trailing, etc.), but I think we can realistically say our sub-average goaltending has cost us 1 game this year (maybe 2 if you are being overly generous).



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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Detroit (Game #22) [message #703446 is a reply to message #703401 ]
Thu, 23 November 2017 18:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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ziltoid wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 10:17


I don't think it is wise to anchor performance expectations against last season. Multiple players had career years and several were rookies riding high on the thrill of being in the NHL. Yes, the PP has been bad and that falls at the feet of both the coaches and the players, but last year was driven by abnormal performances. Lucic had a career year on the PP, as did Letestu and Klefbom.

I think the only players on the roster that are performing below their skill levels are Klefbom, Benning, and Talbot, and I don't think they are performing as far below their average as some people think. I am still bullish on all three players, for the record. Aside from that, everyone else is pretty much on par for what we can reasonably expect from them.



It's interesting to see how the focus of sportswriters and colour commentators does impact the review on players in this market.

Klefbom has had a tough season, but even in the games he plays well, you're having extra focus on his errors from the play-by-play team, and you're seeing mistakes tweeted in real time by select members of the media which amplifies them and makes them more memorable.

It becomes a challenge for a player to dig out in Edmonton, because there ends up being this intense spotlight on the fact that they're not mistake-free, even though that's the case with all players. The narrative gets pushed because he's the current target. With Nurse, when there's a giveaway, even if it leads to a goal, there's a downplaying of it, or no mention at all.

With Russell, there's a flat out defense of the player against criticism. When many were mocking his starfish/snow angel impression in the game against Philly, you saw Oilers media guys pointing their finger at everyone else on the ice as culprits and basically suggesting that he didn't have much of a chance given everything else that occurred.

It will be interesting to see if Klefbom starts seeing more and more of the Schultz treatment now. He's exactly the type of player that Edmonton sports media loves to run out of town. Offensive guy, rarely destroys players with hits, doesn't fight, having some struggles...this is when they turn on the Poti/Gilbert/Petry/Schultz model of player, and they rarely ever let up. And the average Oilers fan isn't good at smelling the bs and is quick to play their part.

It was good to hear that McLellan started defending Klefbom, but he is going to have to be very vocal to get those mouth-breathers to call the dogs off...



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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Detroit (Game #22) [message #703447 is a reply to message #703446 ]
Thu, 23 November 2017 18:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently online Kr55
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Adam wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 18:41

ziltoid wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 10:17


I don't think it is wise to anchor performance expectations against last season. Multiple players had career years and several were rookies riding high on the thrill of being in the NHL. Yes, the PP has been bad and that falls at the feet of both the coaches and the players, but last year was driven by abnormal performances. Lucic had a career year on the PP, as did Letestu and Klefbom.

I think the only players on the roster that are performing below their skill levels are Klefbom, Benning, and Talbot, and I don't think they are performing as far below their average as some people think. I am still bullish on all three players, for the record. Aside from that, everyone else is pretty much on par for what we can reasonably expect from them.



It's interesting to see how the focus of sportswriters and colour commentators does impact the review on players in this market.

Klefbom has had a tough season, but even in the games he plays well, you're having extra focus on his errors from the play-by-play team, and you're seeing mistakes tweeted in real time by select members of the media which amplifies them and makes them more memorable.

It becomes a challenge for a player to dig out in Edmonton, because there ends up being this intense spotlight on the fact that they're not mistake-free, even though that's the case with all players. The narrative gets pushed because he's the current target. With Nurse, when there's a giveaway, even if it leads to a goal, there's a downplaying of it, or no mention at all.

With Russell, there's a flat out defense of the player against criticism. When many were mocking his starfish/snow angel impression in the game against Philly, you saw Oilers media guys pointing their finger at everyone else on the ice as culprits and basically suggesting that he didn't have much of a chance given everything else that occurred.

It will be interesting to see if Klefbom starts seeing more and more of the Schultz treatment now. He's exactly the type of player that Edmonton sports media loves to run out of town. Offensive guy, rarely destroys players with hits, doesn't fight, having some struggles...this is when they turn on the Poti/Gilbert/Petry/Schultz model of player, and they rarely ever let up. And the average Oilers fan isn't good at smelling the bs and is quick to play their part.

It was good to hear that McLellan started defending Klefbom, but he is going to have to be very vocal to get those mouth-breathers to call the dogs off...


Good to see McLellan backing Klef. He was very happy to toss Schultz under the bus when Schultz just fully gave up on the team. Was ugly, but at least it seems if you are putting an honest effort in, McLellan will have your back...for a while at least.




"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Detroit (Game #22) [message #703452 is a reply to message #703447 ]
Thu, 23 November 2017 19:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Kr55 wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 18:53


Good to see McLellan backing Klef. He was very happy to toss Schultz under the bus when Schultz just fully gave up on the team. Was ugly, but at least it seems if you are putting an honest effort in, McLellan will have your back...for a while at least.




McLellan's treatment of Schultz was almost as bad as the fans...There was no support there. Not against the media, not against the booing fans.

Schultz drew early accolades for defensive play, despite much reduced point production (as we've now seen over and over again with McLellan). I believe some of the production drop-off was systems related, but Schultz definitely slumped.

He then got hurt and missed several games. When he came back, he struggled defensively a little too. Given that it's the Oilers - you can bet he came back from injury too soon. Whatever the case, his coach quickly turned on him, and was very critical in the media. The media called loudly for Schultz to be benched, and after his next bad game, he was healthy scratched. The coach could have covered for the player, saying that he had come back too soon from injury, but he didn't, rather being again very critical of his game. Schultz became increasingly mistake conscious over some time, and as we usually see when that happens, it resulted in a more jittery, less confident player. The loop continued.

I wonder if the obsession with errors doesn't still cause more of them with the Oilers. There's an awareness that if you screw up, the coach will dissect your mistake in the post-game presser, and if you're a bottom sixer, you could be out of the lineup the next game. It's got to eat at you, and you grip the stick tighter...



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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Detroit (Game #22) [message #703461 is a reply to message #703452 ]
Thu, 23 November 2017 20:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 19:40

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 18:53


Good to see McLellan backing Klef. He was very happy to toss Schultz under the bus when Schultz just fully gave up on the team. Was ugly, but at least it seems if you are putting an honest effort in, McLellan will have your back...for a while at least.




McLellan's treatment of Schultz was almost as bad as the fans...There was no support there. Not against the media, not against the booing fans.

Schultz drew early accolades for defensive play, despite much reduced point production (as we've now seen over and over again with McLellan). I believe some of the production drop-off was systems related, but Schultz definitely slumped.

He then got hurt and missed several games. When he came back, he struggled defensively a little too. Given that it's the Oilers - you can bet he came back from injury too soon. Whatever the case, his coach quickly turned on him, and was very critical in the media. The media called loudly for Schultz to be benched, and after his next bad game, he was healthy scratched. The coach could have covered for the player, saying that he had come back too soon from injury, but he didn't, rather being again very critical of his game. Schultz became increasingly mistake conscious over some time, and as we usually see when that happens, it resulted in a more jittery, less confident player. The loop continued.

I wonder if the obsession with errors doesn't still cause more of them with the Oilers. There's an awareness that if you screw up, the coach will dissect your mistake in the post-game presser, and if you're a bottom sixer, you could be out of the lineup the next game. It's got to eat at you, and you grip the stick tighter...


Bad PP under Eakins and then Woodcroft really did Schultz in. There was no possible way for him to gain confidence. He had to play too much and couldn't handle the minutes, and there was minimal opportunity to gain confidence offensively. He did completely mail it in eventually hoping for the exit and he got it.

I really hope this isn't the way things go to Klef, but I don't think they will. When Sek is back, he will be able to be insulated more when he struggles like last season, and I think he is capable of playing a solid 2-way game, much more than the Jultz. Just a guy still early in his career trying to find consistently, and like most other guys on the team, confidence is dented a bit.

I'm kinda glad the media guys also went after McDavid because they embarrassed themselves in the process. Hope they learn a lesson. Mattheson seemed so embarrassed he actually put out an article calling out Chia.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Detroit (Game #22) [message #703450 is a reply to message #703446 ]
Thu, 23 November 2017 19:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 18:41

ziltoid wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 10:17


I don't think it is wise to anchor performance expectations against last season. Multiple players had career years and several were rookies riding high on the thrill of being in the NHL. Yes, the PP has been bad and that falls at the feet of both the coaches and the players, but last year was driven by abnormal performances. Lucic had a career year on the PP, as did Letestu and Klefbom.

I think the only players on the roster that are performing below their skill levels are Klefbom, Benning, and Talbot, and I don't think they are performing as far below their average as some people think. I am still bullish on all three players, for the record. Aside from that, everyone else is pretty much on par for what we can reasonably expect from them.



It's interesting to see how the focus of sportswriters and colour commentators does impact the review on players in this market.

Klefbom has had a tough season, but even in the games he plays well, you're having extra focus on his errors from the play-by-play team, and you're seeing mistakes tweeted in real time by select members of the media which amplifies them and makes them more memorable.

It becomes a challenge for a player to dig out in Edmonton, because there ends up being this intense spotlight on the fact that they're not mistake-free, even though that's the case with all players. The narrative gets pushed because he's the current target. With Nurse, when there's a giveaway, even if it leads to a goal, there's a downplaying of it, or no mention at all.

With Russell, there's a flat out defense of the player against criticism. When many were mocking his starfish/snow angel impression in the game against Philly, you saw Oilers media guys pointing their finger at everyone else on the ice as culprits and basically suggesting that he didn't have much of a chance given everything else that occurred.

It will be interesting to see if Klefbom starts seeing more and more of the Schultz treatment now. He's exactly the type of player that Edmonton sports media loves to run out of town. Offensive guy, rarely destroys players with hits, doesn't fight, having some struggles...this is when they turn on the Poti/Gilbert/Petry/Schultz model of player, and they rarely ever let up. And the average Oilers fan isn't good at smelling the bs and is quick to play their part.

It was good to hear that McLellan started defending Klefbom, but he is going to have to be very vocal to get those mouth-breathers to call the dogs off...


I think it is pertinent to ask why this keeps happening. Are the pundits taking orders from Oilers management? If so, the only people who have been around through all of this are the OBC, and this is a glimpse into their terrible assessment skills of not only players, but what it take to win in the league. If they are not taking order from Oilers management, then are they subtly trying to influence management's decisions? If that's so, is management caving? Given what's happened over the years, you are pretty much forced to conclude that they are. Maybe they just trying to generate clicks and sales by pandering to the "lowest common denominator"? That could be it, but then why has management's actions mirrored, in many ways, the media's views? Surely they are in the business of winning hockey games and not fulfilling the roster desires of idiotic fans...

Personally, I think some of the stupidity comes from media pundits taking marching orders from the organization (be they direct orders or implied orders), the rest comes from idiots trying to pump their egos and influence the Oilers brass.



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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Detroit (Game #22) [message #703403 is a reply to message #703399 ]
Thu, 23 November 2017 10:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 09:02


So you mentioned Talbot which is good. It's almost impossible to win if your goalie is giving you .900 or below goaltending.

To the rest of the players.

You expected Klefbom after last season to be -14 this year and for the majority of the season look like he's a raw rookie or AHL dman? That's how he's been for the majority of the season. They have started to scale back his minutes but for a big chunk of the year, he was playing the most mins. I would assume the expectation of Klefbom for this season was to be at minimum a decent top 4 guy. He hasn't been close to that for most of the year and has had what 3 good games? I don't honestly know so please tell me. You can't win when you have a dman playing as much as he does, being that bad.

You expected Benning to struggle as bad as he has? He's a young dman, you expect some ups and down but he's been terrible for most of the season and looked like he is a borderline NHLer at best. I would assume the expectation for Benning was to at least be an NHLer every night. Can you honestly say he's looked like an NHLer every night? You can't win if a guy playing regular mins on your blueline isn't playing at an NHL level most nights. You definitely can't win when you have 2 guys basically every night being train wrecks on defense every night.

You expected that Drai who had 10 PP goals and 27 PP points last year would have ZERO PP points in 18 games? How many 2-1 games did they lose where their PP did nothing and where a PP goal or 2, maybe a few PP points would have allowed them to win.

You expected Kassian to have no goals in 22 games? He had 7 last year and had what was it 4 or 5 called back. With as many goals as he scored and got called back, I would have to think the expectation would be to have a lot 1 or 2 in 22 games. How many breakaways has he had where he didn't score this year? 4 or 5 at least I think.

There is 4 guys off the top of my head who are playing WAY below expectation and then you factor in Talbot. I know you are a beat on Chia guy, I get it. I also know that Chia deserves some blame no doubt. But to pin this all on Chia or even the coaches when a ton of the players have been flat out lousy is wrong in my opinion. You could swap out Russell who I know you hate for whoever you want and still have Eberle but with Klefbom, Benning, Talbot being as bad as they have been for most of the year, it wouldn't make a difference. How many garbage goals has Talbot let in this year that have nothing to do with defense. I can think of 3 in the last 4 games alone. So while I agree that Chia needs to wear some of this but the Oilers could have Pronger and Lidstrom back there and if your goalie is giving you .900 or less goaltending, you aren't winning. Talbot has a .901 save percentage and a 3.13 GA. That's not NHL numbers.


Drai has 17 points in 18 games. Saying he's WAY below expectations is a bit of a reach, no?

As for the defence, I've been pretty consistent in saying that the group would miss Sekera a lot. That's who Benning played the highest number of minutes with last year, so am I surprised that a 2nd year pro is struggling given that Sekera is out and he's already played more minutes with Kris Russell this year than he did all of last year? Not even a little bit.

I'm not as down on Klefbom as some. He needs to be better, but his numbers with Larsson have been much better than with Benning, I would split that pair up, and put Klef back with Larsson. I don't think that switching up the Top 4 configuration will totally change their fortunes, but I think it would be better. And again, I've been pretty consistent in saying that I think Chia needed to go out and get help on the back-end with Sekera out, so no I'm not super surprised at their struggles and definitely within the range of where I thought they could be - at the low end for sure, but in the range. When you look at the group as a whole, Nurse has definitely outperformed my expectations, which balances out Klefbom's struggles somewhat.

Kassian? Am I shocked that a guy that had 7 goals last year doesn't have one yet? Nope. Kassian went 37 games between goals from Oct. 23 to Jan. 18 last year. He could go another month without scoring and it wouldn't be abnormal.

[Updated on: Thu, 23 November 2017 10:33]


Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19 pace: 234 GF / 274 GA (-40)

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Detroit (Game #22) [message #703408 is a reply to message #703403 ]
Thu, 23 November 2017 10:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Goose wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 10:31

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 09:02


So you mentioned Talbot which is good. It's almost impossible to win if your goalie is giving you .900 or below goaltending.

To the rest of the players.

You expected Klefbom after last season to be -14 this year and for the majority of the season look like he's a raw rookie or AHL dman? That's how he's been for the majority of the season. They have started to scale back his minutes but for a big chunk of the year, he was playing the most mins. I would assume the expectation of Klefbom for this season was to be at minimum a decent top 4 guy. He hasn't been close to that for most of the year and has had what 3 good games? I don't honestly know so please tell me. You can't win when you have a dman playing as much as he does, being that bad.

You expected Benning to struggle as bad as he has? He's a young dman, you expect some ups and down but he's been terrible for most of the season and looked like he is a borderline NHLer at best. I would assume the expectation for Benning was to at least be an NHLer every night. Can you honestly say he's looked like an NHLer every night? You can't win if a guy playing regular mins on your blueline isn't playing at an NHL level most nights. You definitely can't win when you have 2 guys basically every night being train wrecks on defense every night.

You expected that Drai who had 10 PP goals and 27 PP points last year would have ZERO PP points in 18 games? How many 2-1 games did they lose where their PP did nothing and where a PP goal or 2, maybe a few PP points would have allowed them to win.

You expected Kassian to have no goals in 22 games? He had 7 last year and had what was it 4 or 5 called back. With as many goals as he scored and got called back, I would have to think the expectation would be to have a lot 1 or 2 in 22 games. How many breakaways has he had where he didn't score this year? 4 or 5 at least I think.

There is 4 guys off the top of my head who are playing WAY below expectation and then you factor in Talbot. I know you are a beat on Chia guy, I get it. I also know that Chia deserves some blame no doubt. But to pin this all on Chia or even the coaches when a ton of the players have been flat out lousy is wrong in my opinion. You could swap out Russell who I know you hate for whoever you want and still have Eberle but with Klefbom, Benning, Talbot being as bad as they have been for most of the year, it wouldn't make a difference. How many garbage goals has Talbot let in this year that have nothing to do with defense. I can think of 3 in the last 4 games alone. So while I agree that Chia needs to wear some of this but the Oilers could have Pronger and Lidstrom back there and if your goalie is giving you .900 or less goaltending, you aren't winning. Talbot has a .901 save percentage and a 3.13 GA. That's not NHL numbers.


Drai has 17 points in 18 games. Saying he's WAY below expectations is a bit of a reach, no?

As for the defence, I've been pretty consistent in saying that the group would miss Sekera a lot. That's who Benning played the highest number of minutes with last year, so am I surprised that a 2nd year pro is struggling given that Sekera is out and he's already played more minutes with Kris Russell this year than he did all of last year? Not even a little bit.

I'm not as down on Klefbom as some. He needs to be better, but his numbers with Larsson have been much better than with Benning, I would split that pair up, and put Klef back with Larsson. I don't think that switching up the Top 4 configuration will totally change their fortunes, but I think it would be better. And again, I've been pretty consistent in saying that I think Chia needed to go out and get help on the back-end with Sekera out, so no I'm not super surprised at their struggles and definitely within the range of where I thought they could be - at the low end for sure, but in the range. When you look at the group as a whole, Nurse has definitely outperformed my expectations, which balances out Klefbom's struggles somewhat.

Kassian? Am I shocked that a guy that had 7 goals last year doesn't have one yet? Nope. Kassian went 37 games between goals from Oct. 23 to Jan. 18 last year. He could go another month without scoring and it wouldn't be abnormal.

For Drai. This league the way the rules are, they way it is coached, the way it is officiated and the way it is played, it is designed to let crap teams be competitive. The league wants parity as much as possible. The league wants the garbage teams like Arizona to feel like they have a chance when they really don't deserve too. It's 5 on 5, it's a 2-1 league. So where you need to make the difference is on the PP. You have to have a good PP. 8.5 mill for Leon to have ZERO PP points isn't good enough. Leon hasn't been terrible but he hasn't been as good as he should be. McDavid and Leon were the #1 scoring duo in the league last year. They aren't even close this year. Maybe you are OK with it but I'm not.

If you want to make the argument that the Chia should have brought in another dman. Totally fair and I won't argue that. But I still don't see how adding another guy helps a ton. Klefbom is -14 dude. That's brutal and you can't even blame his partners. He's missing assignments, making stupid pinches, making bad reads. That's all on him. I am a big Klefbom guy and I am confident he will figure it out because I think he is that good but his play is 100% in his head. SO unless the guy you added was Lidstrom in his prime, I don't see it making a lot of difference.

But it all comes back to Talbot. If he was even giving the Oilers average NHL goaltending, they'd probably have 2 or 3 more wins. He's letting goals in from the side boards, long range unscreened shots that go through him and goals from behind the net. What is another dman supposed to do when you get goaltending like that?



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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Detroit (Game #22) [message #703448 is a reply to message #703408 ]
Thu, 23 November 2017 19:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 09:48


For Drai. This league the way the rules are, they way it is coached, the way it is officiated and the way it is played, it is designed to let crap teams be competitive. The league wants parity as much as possible. The league wants the garbage teams like Arizona to feel like they have a chance when they really don't deserve too. It's 5 on 5, it's a 2-1 league. So where you need to make the difference is on the PP. You have to have a good PP. 8.5 mill for Leon to have ZERO PP points isn't good enough. Leon hasn't been terrible but he hasn't been as good as he should be. McDavid and Leon were the #1 scoring duo in the league last year. They aren't even close this year. Maybe you are OK with it but I'm not.



Through the Oilers first 22 games last year, Drai had 16 points. He has 17 this year despite only playing in 18 games.

Of course I would love it if Drai had 6 or 8 pp points so far. But if the expectation was that he would have 25 points in 18 games, I'm not sure that was realistic. I don't think its really fair to just focus on Drai underperforming his pp production from last year and just ignore that he's also overperforming his 5x5 production from last year, those points count the same.

As for the highest scoring duo, Stamkos and Kucherov are on pace for 140 and 129 points. I highly doubt either of them get there. But even if they do, you can't really expect that McDavid/Drai should be above that, can you?

Bottom line for me is that Drai's performance to date is not remotely close to being part of the problem for the Oilers. The bottom half of the forwards and the defence isn't good enough, and that's on Chia.



Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19 pace: 234 GF / 274 GA (-40)

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Detroit (Game #22) [message #703449 is a reply to message #703408 ]
Thu, 23 November 2017 19:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Have to agree with you on Talbot's play being the biggest reason the oilers have such a poor record. Last year was the opposite, he stole games for them. Looks ok at times but plain sleepy at other times and without decent goaltending you are screwed in this league. Those bad goals deflate the entire team. He's been "down on his knees lookin' for nickles " ( as Howie Meeker use to say ) far too often. Let's just hope he can turn it around.


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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Detroit (Game #22) [message #703393 is a reply to message #703381 ]
Thu, 23 November 2017 09:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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welcometotheOC wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 07:49

His short-side goal against St. Louis was terrible, but the one you are talking about went off the back of Nuge's jersey and deflected to hit the inside of the far post. I wouldn't blame him too much for that one.


I didn't notice the deflection, but if there was one, it was minimal. Talbot should have had that angle covered. He's let in about a half dozen of those so far this year. His head is just not in the game half the time.



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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Detroit (Game #22) [message #703396 is a reply to message #703393 ]
Thu, 23 November 2017 09:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne  is currently offline PlusOne
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Pseudoreality wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 10:44

welcometotheOC wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 07:49

His short-side goal against St. Louis was terrible, but the one you are talking about went off the back of Nuge's jersey and deflected to hit the inside of the far post. I wouldn't blame him too much for that one.


I didn't notice the deflection, but if there was one, it was minimal. Talbot should have had that angle covered. He's let in about a half dozen of those so far this year. His head is just not in the game half the time.

While that may apply to the season as a whole this game wasn't it.
The first goal that Letestu should have cleared wasn't on Talbot. The slo mo of the second showed he had the bad angle shot covered and the deflection off of RNH definitely changed the puck flight path straight into the far corner.
Terrible luck but also not his fault.

This game itself had very little not to like. I think the team as a whole has some form of hockey Bi-polar. One game they play just fine like tonight or against Vegas. The next the cough of a snot ball like the Blues game.



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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Detroit (Game #22) [message #703424 is a reply to message #703393 ]
Thu, 23 November 2017 13:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
welcometotheOC  is currently offline welcometotheOC
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Disagree. If it doesn't get deflected it goes wide and there would have been no goal.


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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Detroit (Game #22) [message #703425 is a reply to message #703424 ]
Thu, 23 November 2017 13:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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welcometotheOC wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 13:39

Disagree. If it doesn't get deflected it goes wide and there would have been no goal.

One thing I don't get is why is Talbot going down so much so early? The puck is in the corner and he's down. The puck gets floated towards the net, hits Nuge and goes over Talbot's shoulder. IF he is standing up at all, it hits Talbot harmlessly.



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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Detroit (Game #22) [message #703428 is a reply to message #703425 ]
Thu, 23 November 2017 14:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NZ Oiler Fan  is currently offline NZ Oiler Fan
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 13:49

welcometotheOC wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 13:39

Disagree. If it doesn't get deflected it goes wide and there would have been no goal.

One thing I don't get is why is Talbot going down so much so early? The puck is in the corner and he's down. The puck gets floated towards the net, hits Nuge and goes over Talbot's shoulder. IF he is standing up at all, it hits Talbot harmlessly.


Coulda been worse. Did you see that one Scott Darling let in last night?




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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Detroit (Game #22) [message #703432 is a reply to message #703428 ]
Thu, 23 November 2017 14:28 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
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NZ Oiler Fan wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 13:03

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 13:49

welcometotheOC wrote on Thu, 23 November 2017 13:39

Disagree. If it doesn't get deflected it goes wide and there would have been no goal.

One thing I don't get is why is Talbot going down so much so early? The puck is in the corner and he's down. The puck gets floated towards the net, hits Nuge and goes over Talbot's shoulder. IF he is standing up at all, it hits Talbot harmlessly.


Coulda been worse. Did you see that one Scott Darling let in last night?




Yeah that probably made Talbot feel a little better seeing that, holy crap!



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