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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #680384 is a reply to message #625456 ]
Sun, 30 October 2016 14:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
feepa  is currently offline feepa
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Found this:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cv-ZQLbUsAEosxD.jpg



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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #690867 is a reply to message #625456 ]
Wed, 12 April 2017 09:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
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Wasn't really sure where to put this, and I didn't want to hijack the pregame or playoff threads. But the Oilers have made the ludicrous decision to sell concourse only passes for the home playoff games. No seat. No view of the game. Just the experience of being able to wander around the rink as the game goes on, and the privilege of being able to buy an $18 Bobby Nick burger and eat it standing up. And for the low, low price of $80.

Oh, and it will make the experience for the actual ticket purchasers, the Tier 1 fans, slightly worse as the concourse will be more crowded and the lines for food and washrooms will be slightly longer.

Ryan Batty of Copper & Blue had some choice words for the Oilers:

Quote:

At this point, nothing that the Oilers do to make a buck should come as a surprise, but can we not all agree that this is completely unnecessary? Oh, and $80, are you kidding me?...It doesn’t matter if the Oilers sell 5, 50, 500, or 5,000 concourse tickets, all this does is diminish the game experience of the fans who paid big money for a ticket that included not just entry, but a seat as well. The lines for beer, for food, for the bathrooms will all be just a little bit longer. No big deal, I can always catch the next payoff game. That’ll be before 2028, right?


http://www.coppernblue.com/2017/4/12/15270284/oilers-playoff -tickets-concourse-80-damn-dollars-worst-idea-ever



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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #690870 is a reply to message #690867 ]
Wed, 12 April 2017 09:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently online Kr55
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Goose wrote on Wed, 12 April 2017 09:41

Wasn't really sure where to put this, and I didn't want to hijack the pregame or playoff threads. But the Oilers have made the ludicrous decision to sell concourse only passes for the home playoff games. No seat. No view of the game. Just the experience of being able to wander around the rink as the game goes on, and the privilege of being able to buy an $18 Bobby Nick burger and eat it standing up. And for the low, low price of $80.

Oh, and it will make the experience for the actual ticket purchasers, the Tier 1 fans, slightly worse as the concourse will be more crowded and the lines for food and washrooms will be slightly longer.

Ryan Batty of Copper & Blue had some choice words for the Oilers:

Quote:

At this point, nothing that the Oilers do to make a buck should come as a surprise, but can we not all agree that this is completely unnecessary? Oh, and $80, are you kidding me?...It doesn’t matter if the Oilers sell 5, 50, 500, or 5,000 concourse tickets, all this does is diminish the game experience of the fans who paid big money for a ticket that included not just entry, but a seat as well. The lines for beer, for food, for the bathrooms will all be just a little bit longer. No big deal, I can always catch the next payoff game. That’ll be before 2028, right?


http://www.coppernblue.com/2017/4/12/15270284/oilers-playoff -tickets-concourse-80-damn-dollars-worst-idea-ever


I don't get that at all personally, but I don't doubt many people will buy those tickets up (are they already sold out?). People want to say they were there I suppose. I'm more than happy to cheer with others watching the game on TV if I can't get a real seat in Rogers Place.

Wonder if there will be fights over seats with concourse people trying to sneak in what they think are empty seats.



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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #690871 is a reply to message #690870 ]
Wed, 12 April 2017 09:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bigEfromGP  is currently offline bigEfromGP
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I can just imagine the effect it will have on the upper drink rail seats. Having people hang off the rails behind you was already bad enough, and those people had seats.


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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #690872 is a reply to message #690870 ]
Wed, 12 April 2017 09:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 12 April 2017 08:45


I don't get that at all personally, but I don't doubt many people will buy those tickets up (are they already sold out?). People want to say they were there I suppose. I'm more than happy to cheer with others watching the game on TV if I can't get a real seat in Rogers Place.

Wonder if there will be fights over seats with concourse people trying to sneak in what they think are empty seats.


For sure I think people will buy them. But at some point I think trying to squeeze every last dollar out of your fanbase will start to backfire on you. Especially if, as you said, the people with the concourse tickets start to encroach on the people with regular tickets. And that scenario is pretty much inevitable imo.



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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #690875 is a reply to message #690872 ]
Wed, 12 April 2017 10:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OilMJMOil  is currently offline OilMJMOil
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Goose wrote on Wed, 12 April 2017 09:56

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 12 April 2017 08:45


I don't get that at all personally, but I don't doubt many people will buy those tickets up (are they already sold out?). People want to say they were there I suppose. I'm more than happy to cheer with others watching the game on TV if I can't get a real seat in Rogers Place.

Wonder if there will be fights over seats with concourse people trying to sneak in what they think are empty seats.


For sure I think people will buy them. But at some point I think trying to squeeze every last dollar out of your fanbase will start to backfire on you. Especially if, as you said, the people with the concourse tickets start to encroach on the people with regular tickets. And that scenario is pretty much inevitable imo.


You would hope Rogers Place beefs up their staffing for Playoff games and has multiple staff at each entrance to the seating areas from the concourse. Only way to hinder "Concourse Ticket" purchasers from entering the seating areas is having people check tickets to enter the seating area which slows entry and causes more of a cluster on the concourse.

I imagine Ford Hall will be littered with people? Winter Garden could/would provide a better alternative to having these concourse tickets.



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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #690885 is a reply to message #690875 ]
Wed, 12 April 2017 11:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
McDavid97  is currently offline McDavid97
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OilMJMOil wrote on Wed, 12 April 2017 10:04

Goose wrote on Wed, 12 April 2017 09:56

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 12 April 2017 08:45


I don't get that at all personally, but I don't doubt many people will buy those tickets up (are they already sold out?). People want to say they were there I suppose. I'm more than happy to cheer with others watching the game on TV if I can't get a real seat in Rogers Place.

Wonder if there will be fights over seats with concourse people trying to sneak in what they think are empty seats.


For sure I think people will buy them. But at some point I think trying to squeeze every last dollar out of your fanbase will start to backfire on you. Especially if, as you said, the people with the concourse tickets start to encroach on the people with regular tickets. And that scenario is pretty much inevitable imo.


You would hope Rogers Place beefs up their staffing for Playoff games and has multiple staff at each entrance to the seating areas from the concourse. Only way to hinder "Concourse Ticket" purchasers from entering the seating areas is having people check tickets to enter the seating area which slows entry and causes more of a cluster on the concourse.

I imagine Ford Hall will be littered with people? Winter Garden could/would provide a better alternative to having these concourse tickets.



Ya it's already bad enough how long the lines are for food, drink and bathrooms and this is going to make it worse. Anything to capitalize on the money. I can't wait until there are fights from people that sit down in someone else chair. Not to mention them having to get up during play (which typically happens) and block the view for others in that section. Charge money to be in ford hall where people want to be next to the action, sure, but not where it's already packed in inside. I can't see how this goes well and will just have people upset but do they really care because tickets sell so easy here.



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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #690899 is a reply to message #690885 ]
Wed, 12 April 2017 12:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bigEfromGP  is currently offline bigEfromGP
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Contacted our report, and he's strongly defending it, saying that all 4 major sports do this and that staffing has been increased to handle the demand. We'll see.

Re: Ford Hall, they would have to move the security gates to make this work, it sure the viability of that.



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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #694739 is a reply to message #625456 ]
Tue, 16 May 2017 23:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
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Well this has gone pretty much as expected.

Quote:

Edmonton’s downtown office vacancy rate nearly doubled in the past year, and a balanced market might not re-emerge for decades, speakers told a real estate conference Thursday...“A healthy balanced market is seven to eight per cent vacancy. At 15 per cent, yes, landlords should be worried,” Phil Goh, senior vice-president at Colliers International, told the Edmonton Real Estate Forum at the Shaw Conference Centre.

He predicted vacancies could reach 18 per cent to 20 per cent next year as companies move into the 66-storey Stantec Tower, scheduled to be completed in October 2018, and other new locations.


http://edmontonjournal.com/business/commercial-real-estate/e dmontons-office-vacancy-rate-almost-doubles-to-15-per-cent



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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #694740 is a reply to message #694739 ]
Tue, 16 May 2017 23:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
MJ  is currently offline MJ
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This is no surprise. The shell game continues. This was a poor deal for the city and the taxpayers of Edmonton. Time to move ahead I guess.


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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #694741 is a reply to message #694740 ]
Wed, 17 May 2017 00:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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I mean, yes, but you can't blame the arena for the economy cratering and the NDP doing what NDP governments tends to do. The real troubles will come if a Klein style government is elected and does what a '93 era Klein style government tends to do. If bloated government work forces get cut down like the private sector did over the last two years that vacancy rate will explode.


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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #694743 is a reply to message #694741 ]
Wed, 17 May 2017 07:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
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CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 16 May 2017 23:14

I mean, yes, but you can't blame the arena for the economy cratering and the NDP doing what NDP governments tends to do. The real troubles will come if a Klein style government is elected and does what a '93 era Klein style government tends to do. If bloated government work forces get cut down like the private sector did over the last two years that vacancy rate will explode.


Haha just like you can't blame the NDP for low oil prices, but that's a topic for another thread.

But that's kind of beside the point. All the new buildings inside the CRL were always going to pull from other areas of the City, even in a good economy. It was never going to be net new tax dollars that were going to magically pay for the arena. The current economy only exacerbates and amplifies the problem.



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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #694745 is a reply to message #694743 ]
Wed, 17 May 2017 08:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Goose wrote on Wed, 17 May 2017 07:48

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 16 May 2017 23:14

I mean, yes, but you can't blame the arena for the economy cratering and the NDP doing what NDP governments tends to do. The real troubles will come if a Klein style government is elected and does what a '93 era Klein style government tends to do. If bloated government work forces get cut down like the private sector did over the last two years that vacancy rate will explode.


Haha just like you can't blame the NDP for low oil prices, but that's a topic for another thread.

But that's kind of beside the point. All the new buildings inside the CRL were always going to pull from other areas of the City, even in a good economy. It was never going to be net new tax dollars that were going to magically pay for the arena. The current economy only exacerbates and amplifies the problem.

Hey, I used the word 'and' to create separate independent clauses... I think. I'm not sure I ever get that correct.

Agree and agree. Building an arena was always going to be like buying a new pair of sweatpants and growing into them.



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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #694744 is a reply to message #694739 ]
Wed, 17 May 2017 07:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
feepa  is currently offline feepa
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Goose wrote on Tue, 16 May 2017 23:29

Well this has gone pretty much as expected.

Quote:

Edmonton’s downtown office vacancy rate nearly doubled in the past year, and a balanced market might not re-emerge for decades, speakers told a real estate conference Thursday...“A healthy balanced market is seven to eight per cent vacancy. At 15 per cent, yes, landlords should be worried,” Phil Goh, senior vice-president at Colliers International, told the Edmonton Real Estate Forum at the Shaw Conference Centre.

He predicted vacancies could reach 18 per cent to 20 per cent next year as companies move into the 66-storey Stantec Tower, scheduled to be completed in October 2018, and other new locations.


http://edmontonjournal.com/business/commercial-real-estate/e dmontons-office-vacancy-rate-almost-doubles-to-15-per-cent


Kind of expected with new towers coming online and eating up all the class AAA tenants. Lower class towers will upgrade, or convert to condo towers. A higher vacancy rate will bring lower prices, which may attract some offices from business parks around the suburbs.



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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #694748 is a reply to message #694739 ]
Wed, 17 May 2017 10:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NetBOG  is currently offline NetBOG
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Goose wrote on Tue, 16 May 2017 23:29

Well this has gone pretty much as expected.

Quote:

Edmonton’s downtown office vacancy rate nearly doubled in the past year, and a balanced market might not re-emerge for decades, speakers told a real estate conference Thursday...“A healthy balanced market is seven to eight per cent vacancy. At 15 per cent, yes, landlords should be worried,” Phil Goh, senior vice-president at Colliers International, told the Edmonton Real Estate Forum at the Shaw Conference Centre.

He predicted vacancies could reach 18 per cent to 20 per cent next year as companies move into the 66-storey Stantec Tower, scheduled to be completed in October 2018, and other new locations.


http://edmontonjournal.com/business/commercial-real-estate/e dmontons-office-vacancy-rate-almost-doubles-to-15-per-cent


If only someone had predicted the CRL was just a giant shell game to make it look like the Arena wasn't costing the taxpayer 600 Million +. Oh wait, I did multiple times in this thread and the previous Arena threads. And I don't have a fancy degree in finance or urban planning.

This is only the start of the issues that the city is going to face to finance a 'tax money free' Arena.



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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #694858 is a reply to message #694748 ]
Sat, 20 May 2017 11:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rocksteady  is currently offline Rocksteady
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NetBOG wrote on Wed, 17 May 2017 10:53

If only someone had predicted the CRL was just a giant shell game to make it look like the Arena wasn't costing the taxpayer 600 Million +. Oh wait, I did multiple times in this thread and the previous Arena threads. And I don't have a fancy degree in finance or urban planning.

This is only the start of the issues that the city is going to face to finance a 'tax money free' Arena.


I wasn't going to answer this because it's another defend the arena thing, but one question pops into my head when I read your thought.. "would it be better than a parking lot?" the answer is a resounding yes.

Is the CRL a shell game, well yeah it is by design, the CRL pays for the arena by diverting tax money from the surrounding properties into a payment schedule rather than to the city. So from its very inception the levy is being diverted from city tax coffers, no secret shell game, it's all spelled out.

The fact that the city vacancy rate has increased since the arena is because there are more office space and people from the outer reaches of the city are moving toward and into the ice district. Which by the way helps out to pay down the debt of the arena and hopefully eliminate the debt..

Look, I'm not wading far into the waters of conflicting "I told you so" posts, but in the end the arena is GREAT for the community and it's a jewel for this city. You can shake your fist at the structure how it was built or whatever else you'd like to complain about but in the end, the arena is excellent for Edmonton.

...still... WAY better than a parking lot.



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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #698888 is a reply to message #694858 ]
Tue, 12 September 2017 15:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GabbyDugan  is currently offline GabbyDugan
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/ice-district-towers-c onstruction-1.4286093

....too much too fast? Or perfect timing?....




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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #698906 is a reply to message #698888 ]
Wed, 13 September 2017 11:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GabbyDugan  is currently offline GabbyDugan
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..and Northlands Coliseum will be mothballed...no multi ice sheets for minor hockey, etc. ....

...a bittersweet ending for a place with some fabulous memories and the scene of some great hockey, concerts and other events...

....the location is a pretty sketchy part of the city.....hope the future for that part of town starts to trend in a much more positive direction than it has in the past few decades

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/northlands-coliseum-c ity-horse-racing-1.4287527




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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #698912 is a reply to message #698906 ]
Wed, 13 September 2017 16:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ragnarok73  is currently offline Ragnarok73
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GabbyDugan wrote on Wed, 13 September 2017 11:39

..and Northlands Coliseum will be mothballed...no multi ice sheets for minor hockey, etc. ....

...a bittersweet ending for a place with some fabulous memories and the scene of some great hockey, concerts and other events...

....the location is a pretty sketchy part of the city.....hope the future for that part of town starts to trend in a much more positive direction than it has in the past few decades

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/northlands-coliseum-c ity-horse-racing-1.4287527

Uh, I don't see the area around Rexall improving much unless some SERIOUS development happens at or around Northlands. Horse racing isn't going to be the driver behind that development.



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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #698914 is a reply to message #698912 ]
Wed, 13 September 2017 16:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Ragnarok73 wrote on Wed, 13 September 2017 16:02

GabbyDugan wrote on Wed, 13 September 2017 11:39

..and Northlands Coliseum will be mothballed...no multi ice sheets for minor hockey, etc. ....

...a bittersweet ending for a place with some fabulous memories and the scene of some great hockey, concerts and other events...

....the location is a pretty sketchy part of the city.....hope the future for that part of town starts to trend in a much more positive direction than it has in the past few decades

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/northlands-coliseum-c ity-horse-racing-1.4287527

Uh, I don't see the area around Rexall improving much unless some SERIOUS development happens at or around Northlands. Horse racing isn't going to be the driver behind that development.

Well... if you're Northlands, or whoever actually owns Northlands because I'm not sure what exactly Northlands is, and you're losing your hockey arena and horse track would you not consider redeveloping that whole plot of land into a mess a condos and commercial development to take advantage of the only asset they have there... the LRT station?



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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #698917 is a reply to message #698914 ]
Thu, 14 September 2017 02:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 13 September 2017 16:28

Ragnarok73 wrote on Wed, 13 September 2017 16:02

GabbyDugan wrote on Wed, 13 September 2017 11:39

..and Northlands Coliseum will be mothballed...no multi ice sheets for minor hockey, etc. ....

...a bittersweet ending for a place with some fabulous memories and the scene of some great hockey, concerts and other events...

....the location is a pretty sketchy part of the city.....hope the future for that part of town starts to trend in a much more positive direction than it has in the past few decades

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/northlands-coliseum-c ity-horse-racing-1.4287527

Uh, I don't see the area around Rexall improving much unless some SERIOUS development happens at or around Northlands. Horse racing isn't going to be the driver behind that development.

Well... if you're Northlands, or whoever actually owns Northlands because I'm not sure what exactly Northlands is, and you're losing your hockey arena and horse track would you not consider redeveloping that whole plot of land into a mess a condos and commercial development to take advantage of the only asset they have there... the LRT station?


Northlands doesn't own much, if anything. The City owns the rink and the convention centre and the horse track. Northlands were involved in helping to fund and build the original rink, and then they were given responsibility to manage it.

And then they just dabbled in politics, acting as power brokers for a couple decades before they lost their influence, got caught out with bloated loans, and basically fell apart now.

They were the Good Ol' Boys in Edmonton and Alberta politics for a long, long time and it's probably for the best that their reach has been dramatically reduced.



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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #698919 is a reply to message #698917 ]
Thu, 14 September 2017 08:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Magnum  is currently offline Magnum
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Adam wrote on Thu, 14 September 2017 02:02

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 13 September 2017 16:28

Ragnarok73 wrote on Wed, 13 September 2017 16:02

GabbyDugan wrote on Wed, 13 September 2017 11:39

..and Northlands Coliseum will be mothballed...no multi ice sheets for minor hockey, etc. ....

...a bittersweet ending for a place with some fabulous memories and the scene of some great hockey, concerts and other events...

....the location is a pretty sketchy part of the city.....hope the future for that part of town starts to trend in a much more positive direction than it has in the past few decades

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/northlands-coliseum-c ity-horse-racing-1.4287527

Uh, I don't see the area around Rexall improving much unless some SERIOUS development happens at or around Northlands. Horse racing isn't going to be the driver behind that development.

Well... if you're Northlands, or whoever actually owns Northlands because I'm not sure what exactly Northlands is, and you're losing your hockey arena and horse track would you not consider redeveloping that whole plot of land into a mess a condos and commercial development to take advantage of the only asset they have there... the LRT station?


Northlands doesn't own much, if anything. The City owns the rink and the convention centre and the horse track. Northlands were involved in helping to fund and build the original rink, and then they were given responsibility to manage it.

And then they just dabbled in politics, acting as power brokers for a couple decades before they lost their influence, got caught out with bloated loans, and basically fell apart now.

They were the Good Ol' Boys in Edmonton and Alberta politics for a long, long time and it's probably for the best that their reach has been dramatically reduced.


Does the City own the land?



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2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.

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 Re: New Arena construction! [message #698928 is a reply to message #698919 ]
Thu, 14 September 2017 09:57 Go to previous message
Greg  is currently offline Greg
Messages: 43
Registered: October 2006

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Yes, the City owns the land and Northlands has a land use lease until 2034.

It's all spelled out in their financial statement: http://www.northlands.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Edmonto n-Northlands-Audited-Financial-Statements-31-Dec-2016.pdf

[Updated on: Thu, 14 September 2017 09:59]


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