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 Matthews is better than McDavid - E5 [message #697925]
Tue, 25 July 2017 22:00 Go to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Eklund has finally broken a story after a losing streak of about 45234. A story written by Eklund about how Matthews is better.

http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/ eklunds-argument-that-auston-matthews-might-surpass-connor-m cdavid-is-pure-summer-fun



I refuse to visit his site, so here are the reasons Staples provided that are supposedly in the article:


Quote:

That Matthews has more ability to inspire his teammates. “I already feel something else in Auston. The ability to lead and make others around him much better players. McDavid has a ton of leadership skills as well, but I don’t get the same sense from his teammates that I get from Matthews’ teammates.

That Matthews doesn’t match McDavid’s skill but he has amazing skill.

That Matthews will lead his team to more Stanley Cups. “At the end of the day it will be Championships that ultimately decides, because I expect the stats will favor McDavid, like they did at times for OV (Ovechkin over Crosby) early on… While I get the sense there is even more there for both 97 and 34, I just sense there may be little more for #34.”

[Updated on: Tue, 25 July 2017 22:08]


"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Matthews is better than McDavid - E5 [message #697926 is a reply to message #697925 ]
Tue, 25 July 2017 23:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260  is currently offline smyth260
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I suspect this is nothing more than click driven. Torontonians would eat this idea up.

With that said, I do think Toronto's staff and management group is going to help Matthews win a cup a lot more than ours is going to help McDavid.



When Peter Chiarelli is fired, Kevin Lowe will be involved in finding a replacement. Fire them all. Bring us REAL change.

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 Re: Matthews is better than McDavid - E5 [message #697956 is a reply to message #697926 ]
Wed, 26 July 2017 11:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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smyth260 wrote on Tue, 25 July 2017 23:05

I suspect this is nothing more than click driven. Torontonians would eat this idea up.

With that said, I do think Toronto's staff and management group is going to help Matthews win a cup a lot more than ours is going to help McDavid.


Think Lucky Lou showed a little weakness this summer. Maybe Babcock is demanding no more potential damage to his legacy as well. They seem to be flipping the switch to win-now mode earlier than they claimed they would before. That Marleau deal is going to be a pain in the butt for re-signing their youngins.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Matthews is better than McDavid - E5 [message #697965 is a reply to message #697956 ]
Wed, 26 July 2017 14:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260  is currently offline smyth260
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Yes I'm not really sure what they were thinking there. Was there a bidding war for Marleau that they couldn't get him cheaper or shorter term?

But in the big picture, I like Mike, Lou, Kyle and Brendan a lot more than Todd, Pete, Kevin, Craig, and Scott



When Peter Chiarelli is fired, Kevin Lowe will be involved in finding a replacement. Fire them all. Bring us REAL change.

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 Re: Matthews is better than McDavid - E5 [message #697979 is a reply to message #697965 ]
Wed, 26 July 2017 22:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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smyth260 wrote on Wed, 26 July 2017 14:35

Yes I'm not really sure what they were thinking there. Was there a bidding war for Marleau that they couldn't get him cheaper or shorter term?

But in the big picture, I like Mike, Lou, Kyle and Brendan a lot more than Todd, Pete, Kevin, Craig, and Scott



Leafs fans seem convinced that Marleau has no intention of playing that 3rd year. Not sure how that helps the leafs though :) It's a 35+ contract, so his cap hit stands no matter what. And he asked for a full NMC. I guess Lucky Lou can use his NJ mob connections to give Marleau an offer he can't refuse to get him to waive it and be traded.

You may be right about the management difference. Time will tell. One thing is for sure, no management group is perfect.

Not sure Lou really has the magic any more though. A nice sophmore slump for all their young guys this year would do a nice job to derail some hopes and dreams and increase potential for some more shortsighted moves :) Last season was a free pass year from the TO media. They will all be expecting a deep playoff run this year.

[Updated on: Wed, 26 July 2017 23:01]


"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Matthews is better than McDavid - E5 [message #697980 is a reply to message #697979 ]
Wed, 26 July 2017 23:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 26 July 2017 22:55

smyth260 wrote on Wed, 26 July 2017 14:35

Yes I'm not really sure what they were thinking there. Was there a bidding war for Marleau that they couldn't get him cheaper or shorter term?

But in the big picture, I like Mike, Lou, Kyle and Brendan a lot more than Todd, Pete, Kevin, Craig, and Scott



Leafs fans seem convinced that Marleau has no intention of playing that 3rd year. Not sure how that helps the leafs though :) It's a 35+ contract, so his cap hit stands no matter what. And he asked for a full NMC. I guess Lucky Lou can use his NJ mob connections to give Marleau an offer he can't refuse to get him to waive it and be traded.

You may be right about the management difference. Time will tell. One thing is for sure, no management group is perfect.

Not sure Lou really has the magic any more though. A nice sophmore slump for all their young guys this year would do a nice job to derail some hopes and dreams and increase potential for some more shortsighted moves :) Last season was a free pass year from the TO media. They will all be expecting a deep playoff run this year.


I don't know - he managed to make a couple of players disappear the last couple years. Word had it that Lupul felt he could play last year, but was basically told he could not.



"This team needs an enema!"
#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan

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 Re: Matthews is better than McDavid - E5 [message #697981 is a reply to message #697980 ]
Wed, 26 July 2017 23:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Adam wrote on Wed, 26 July 2017 23:05

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 26 July 2017 22:55

smyth260 wrote on Wed, 26 July 2017 14:35

Yes I'm not really sure what they were thinking there. Was there a bidding war for Marleau that they couldn't get him cheaper or shorter term?

But in the big picture, I like Mike, Lou, Kyle and Brendan a lot more than Todd, Pete, Kevin, Craig, and Scott



Leafs fans seem convinced that Marleau has no intention of playing that 3rd year. Not sure how that helps the leafs though :) It's a 35+ contract, so his cap hit stands no matter what. And he asked for a full NMC. I guess Lucky Lou can use his NJ mob connections to give Marleau an offer he can't refuse to get him to waive it and be traded.

You may be right about the management difference. Time will tell. One thing is for sure, no management group is perfect.

Not sure Lou really has the magic any more though. A nice sophmore slump for all their young guys this year would do a nice job to derail some hopes and dreams and increase potential for some more shortsighted moves :) Last season was a free pass year from the TO media. They will all be expecting a deep playoff run this year.


I don't know - he managed to make a couple of players disappear the last couple years. Word had it that Lupul felt he could play last year, but was basically told he could not.


Marleau is going to develop an equipment allergy for the 3rd year of his contract? Guess anything is possible.

An attitude that the rules don't apply to you is certainly one area the Leafs org has up on us. Still sucks to think back on McLellan and Chia just smiling and hoping the refs would one day throw us a bone in the playoffs.

[Updated on: Wed, 26 July 2017 23:12]


"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Matthews is better than McDavid - E5 [message #697991 is a reply to message #697981 ]
Thu, 27 July 2017 09:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OilPeg  is currently offline OilPeg
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Kr55 wrote on Thu, 27 July 2017 00:10

Adam wrote on Wed, 26 July 2017 23:05

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 26 July 2017 22:55

smyth260 wrote on Wed, 26 July 2017 14:35

Yes I'm not really sure what they were thinking there. Was there a bidding war for Marleau that they couldn't get him cheaper or shorter term?

But in the big picture, I like Mike, Lou, Kyle and Brendan a lot more than Todd, Pete, Kevin, Craig, and Scott



Leafs fans seem convinced that Marleau has no intention of playing that 3rd year. Not sure how that helps the leafs though :) It's a 35+ contract, so his cap hit stands no matter what. And he asked for a full NMC. I guess Lucky Lou can use his NJ mob connections to give Marleau an offer he can't refuse to get him to waive it and be traded.

You may be right about the management difference. Time will tell. One thing is for sure, no management group is perfect.

Not sure Lou really has the magic any more though. A nice sophmore slump for all their young guys this year would do a nice job to derail some hopes and dreams and increase potential for some more shortsighted moves :) Last season was a free pass year from the TO media. They will all be expecting a deep playoff run this year.


I don't know - he managed to make a couple of players disappear the last couple years. Word had it that Lupul felt he could play last year, but was basically told he could not.


Marleau is going to develop an equipment allergy for the 3rd year of his contract? Guess anything is possible.

An attitude that the rules don't apply to you is certainly one area the Leafs org has up on us. Still sucks to think back on McLellan and Chia just smiling and hoping the refs would one day throw us a bone in the playoffs.


The Marleau deal is structured a little funny:

17-18 signing bonus is $7M and actual salary is $1.5M for a total of $8.5M.
18-19 signing bonus is $4.5M and actual salary is $1.5M for a total of $6M.
19-20 signing bonus is $3M and actual salary is $1.25M for a total of $4.25M.

Cap hit is a stagnant $6.25M, so the belief is that Marleau will play the two years, then on July 1 collect his signing bonus for the 3rd year and then be traded to a team needing to boost it's cap. Marleau would be worth $6.5M to the cap but only $1.25M in actual salary, that's an attractive commodity for teams still. We see this type of contract moved all the time. Arizona has routinely done this, and there will always be low payroll teams needing players like Marleau to become compliant.



Skookum Jim wrote on Sat, 02 June 2012 00:29

But he (Belanger)'s as soft as room temp. margarine.

Twitter: @penuita15

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 Re: Matthews is better than McDavid - E5 [message #697993 is a reply to message #697991 ]
Thu, 27 July 2017 09:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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OilPeg wrote on Thu, 27 July 2017 09:12

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 27 July 2017 00:10

Adam wrote on Wed, 26 July 2017 23:05

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 26 July 2017 22:55

smyth260 wrote on Wed, 26 July 2017 14:35

Yes I'm not really sure what they were thinking there. Was there a bidding war for Marleau that they couldn't get him cheaper or shorter term?

But in the big picture, I like Mike, Lou, Kyle and Brendan a lot more than Todd, Pete, Kevin, Craig, and Scott



Leafs fans seem convinced that Marleau has no intention of playing that 3rd year. Not sure how that helps the leafs though :) It's a 35+ contract, so his cap hit stands no matter what. And he asked for a full NMC. I guess Lucky Lou can use his NJ mob connections to give Marleau an offer he can't refuse to get him to waive it and be traded.

You may be right about the management difference. Time will tell. One thing is for sure, no management group is perfect.

Not sure Lou really has the magic any more though. A nice sophmore slump for all their young guys this year would do a nice job to derail some hopes and dreams and increase potential for some more shortsighted moves :) Last season was a free pass year from the TO media. They will all be expecting a deep playoff run this year.


I don't know - he managed to make a couple of players disappear the last couple years. Word had it that Lupul felt he could play last year, but was basically told he could not.


Marleau is going to develop an equipment allergy for the 3rd year of his contract? Guess anything is possible.

An attitude that the rules don't apply to you is certainly one area the Leafs org has up on us. Still sucks to think back on McLellan and Chia just smiling and hoping the refs would one day throw us a bone in the playoffs.


The Marleau deal is structured a little funny:

17-18 signing bonus is $7M and actual salary is $1.5M for a total of $8.5M.
18-19 signing bonus is $4.5M and actual salary is $1.5M for a total of $6M.
19-20 signing bonus is $3M and actual salary is $1.25M for a total of $4.25M.

Cap hit is a stagnant $6.25M, so the belief is that Marleau will play the two years, then on July 1 collect his signing bonus for the 3rd year and then be traded to a team needing to boost it's cap. Marleau would be worth $6.5M to the cap but only $1.25M in actual salary, that's an attractive commodity for teams still. We see this type of contract moved all the time. Arizona has routinely done this, and there will always be low payroll teams needing players like Marleau to become compliant.


So he asked for a full NMC so he could spend the last season of his career on a crap team? If he still feels he can contribute on a 3rd/4th line, I imagine he will use his NMC he got to not have to uproot his family for 1 season to be on a bottom feeder. Unless of course Lou gives him an offer he can't refuse.

[Updated on: Thu, 27 July 2017 09:31]


"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Matthews is better than McDavid - E5 [message #697994 is a reply to message #697993 ]
Thu, 27 July 2017 09:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OilPeg  is currently offline OilPeg
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Kr55 wrote on Thu, 27 July 2017 10:23

OilPeg wrote on Thu, 27 July 2017 09:12

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 27 July 2017 00:10

Adam wrote on Wed, 26 July 2017 23:05

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 26 July 2017 22:55

smyth260 wrote on Wed, 26 July 2017 14:35

Yes I'm not really sure what they were thinking there. Was there a bidding war for Marleau that they couldn't get him cheaper or shorter term?

But in the big picture, I like Mike, Lou, Kyle and Brendan a lot more than Todd, Pete, Kevin, Craig, and Scott



Leafs fans seem convinced that Marleau has no intention of playing that 3rd year. Not sure how that helps the leafs though :) It's a 35+ contract, so his cap hit stands no matter what. And he asked for a full NMC. I guess Lucky Lou can use his NJ mob connections to give Marleau an offer he can't refuse to get him to waive it and be traded.

You may be right about the management difference. Time will tell. One thing is for sure, no management group is perfect.

Not sure Lou really has the magic any more though. A nice sophmore slump for all their young guys this year would do a nice job to derail some hopes and dreams and increase potential for some more shortsighted moves :) Last season was a free pass year from the TO media. They will all be expecting a deep playoff run this year.


I don't know - he managed to make a couple of players disappear the last couple years. Word had it that Lupul felt he could play last year, but was basically told he could not.


Marleau is going to develop an equipment allergy for the 3rd year of his contract? Guess anything is possible.

An attitude that the rules don't apply to you is certainly one area the Leafs org has up on us. Still sucks to think back on McLellan and Chia just smiling and hoping the refs would one day throw us a bone in the playoffs.


The Marleau deal is structured a little funny:

17-18 signing bonus is $7M and actual salary is $1.5M for a total of $8.5M.
18-19 signing bonus is $4.5M and actual salary is $1.5M for a total of $6M.
19-20 signing bonus is $3M and actual salary is $1.25M for a total of $4.25M.

Cap hit is a stagnant $6.25M, so the belief is that Marleau will play the two years, then on July 1 collect his signing bonus for the 3rd year and then be traded to a team needing to boost it's cap. Marleau would be worth $6.5M to the cap but only $1.25M in actual salary, that's an attractive commodity for teams still. We see this type of contract moved all the time. Arizona has routinely done this, and there will always be low payroll teams needing players like Marleau to become compliant.


So he asked for a full NMC so he could spend the last season of his career on a crap team? If he still feels he can contribute on a 3rd/4th line, I imagine he will use his NMC he got to not have to uproot his family for 1 season to be on a bottom feeder. Unless of course Lou gives him an offer he can't refuse.


Damn, I didn't catch the NMC. So much for that theory then, you're right, he's not going to go play for Arizona or Carolina (Quebec) if he has that NMC.



Skookum Jim wrote on Sat, 02 June 2012 00:29

But he (Belanger)'s as soft as room temp. margarine.

Twitter: @penuita15

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 Re: Matthews is better than McDavid - E5 [message #697997 is a reply to message #697994 ]
Thu, 27 July 2017 15:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
WhoreableGuy  is currently offline WhoreableGuy
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I made a bet with a non-Leafs fan that Eichel will out point Matthews this year.

And I still would take Eichel over Matthews if I was starting a franchise. I get a lot of "you're crazy" even with people who hate the Leafs.



"Bah Gawd! Would somebody stop the damn draft!"

- Jim Ross calling the NHL Draft Lotto 2015 as the Oilers win

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 Re: Matthews is better than McDavid - E5 [message #697999 is a reply to message #697993 ]
Thu, 27 July 2017 20:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Kr55 wrote on Thu, 27 July 2017 09:23

OilPeg wrote on Thu, 27 July 2017 09:12

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 27 July 2017 00:10

Adam wrote on Wed, 26 July 2017 23:05

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 26 July 2017 22:55

smyth260 wrote on Wed, 26 July 2017 14:35

Yes I'm not really sure what they were thinking there. Was there a bidding war for Marleau that they couldn't get him cheaper or shorter term?

But in the big picture, I like Mike, Lou, Kyle and Brendan a lot more than Todd, Pete, Kevin, Craig, and Scott



Leafs fans seem convinced that Marleau has no intention of playing that 3rd year. Not sure how that helps the leafs though :) It's a 35+ contract, so his cap hit stands no matter what. And he asked for a full NMC. I guess Lucky Lou can use his NJ mob connections to give Marleau an offer he can't refuse to get him to waive it and be traded.

You may be right about the management difference. Time will tell. One thing is for sure, no management group is perfect.

Not sure Lou really has the magic any more though. A nice sophmore slump for all their young guys this year would do a nice job to derail some hopes and dreams and increase potential for some more shortsighted moves :) Last season was a free pass year from the TO media. They will all be expecting a deep playoff run this year.


I don't know - he managed to make a couple of players disappear the last couple years. Word had it that Lupul felt he could play last year, but was basically told he could not.


Marleau is going to develop an equipment allergy for the 3rd year of his contract? Guess anything is possible.

An attitude that the rules don't apply to you is certainly one area the Leafs org has up on us. Still sucks to think back on McLellan and Chia just smiling and hoping the refs would one day throw us a bone in the playoffs.


The Marleau deal is structured a little funny:

17-18 signing bonus is $7M and actual salary is $1.5M for a total of $8.5M.
18-19 signing bonus is $4.5M and actual salary is $1.5M for a total of $6M.
19-20 signing bonus is $3M and actual salary is $1.25M for a total of $4.25M.

Cap hit is a stagnant $6.25M, so the belief is that Marleau will play the two years, then on July 1 collect his signing bonus for the 3rd year and then be traded to a team needing to boost it's cap. Marleau would be worth $6.5M to the cap but only $1.25M in actual salary, that's an attractive commodity for teams still. We see this type of contract moved all the time. Arizona has routinely done this, and there will always be low payroll teams needing players like Marleau to become compliant.


So he asked for a full NMC so he could spend the last season of his career on a crap team? If he still feels he can contribute on a 3rd/4th line, I imagine he will use his NMC he got to not have to uproot his family for 1 season to be on a bottom feeder. Unless of course Lou gives him an offer he can't refuse.


Quite possible that he retires though. Cap hit still exists but the player Ian gone. Pretty tradeable to a bottom feeder then and he won't block a deal when he's not going to play.



"This team needs an enema!"
#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan

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 Re: Matthews is better than McDavid - E5 [message #698000 is a reply to message #697999 ]
Thu, 27 July 2017 21:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Adam wrote on Thu, 27 July 2017 20:55

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 27 July 2017 09:23

OilPeg wrote on Thu, 27 July 2017 09:12

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 27 July 2017 00:10

Adam wrote on Wed, 26 July 2017 23:05

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 26 July 2017 22:55

smyth260 wrote on Wed, 26 July 2017 14:35

Yes I'm not really sure what they were thinking there. Was there a bidding war for Marleau that they couldn't get him cheaper or shorter term?

But in the big picture, I like Mike, Lou, Kyle and Brendan a lot more than Todd, Pete, Kevin, Craig, and Scott



Leafs fans seem convinced that Marleau has no intention of playing that 3rd year. Not sure how that helps the leafs though :) It's a 35+ contract, so his cap hit stands no matter what. And he asked for a full NMC. I guess Lucky Lou can use his NJ mob connections to give Marleau an offer he can't refuse to get him to waive it and be traded.

You may be right about the management difference. Time will tell. One thing is for sure, no management group is perfect.

Not sure Lou really has the magic any more though. A nice sophmore slump for all their young guys this year would do a nice job to derail some hopes and dreams and increase potential for some more shortsighted moves :) Last season was a free pass year from the TO media. They will all be expecting a deep playoff run this year.


I don't know - he managed to make a couple of players disappear the last couple years. Word had it that Lupul felt he could play last year, but was basically told he could not.


Marleau is going to develop an equipment allergy for the 3rd year of his contract? Guess anything is possible.

An attitude that the rules don't apply to you is certainly one area the Leafs org has up on us. Still sucks to think back on McLellan and Chia just smiling and hoping the refs would one day throw us a bone in the playoffs.


The Marleau deal is structured a little funny:

17-18 signing bonus is $7M and actual salary is $1.5M for a total of $8.5M.
18-19 signing bonus is $4.5M and actual salary is $1.5M for a total of $6M.
19-20 signing bonus is $3M and actual salary is $1.25M for a total of $4.25M.

Cap hit is a stagnant $6.25M, so the belief is that Marleau will play the two years, then on July 1 collect his signing bonus for the 3rd year and then be traded to a team needing to boost it's cap. Marleau would be worth $6.5M to the cap but only $1.25M in actual salary, that's an attractive commodity for teams still. We see this type of contract moved all the time. Arizona has routinely done this, and there will always be low payroll teams needing players like Marleau to become compliant.


So he asked for a full NMC so he could spend the last season of his career on a crap team? If he still feels he can contribute on a 3rd/4th line, I imagine he will use his NMC he got to not have to uproot his family for 1 season to be on a bottom feeder. Unless of course Lou gives him an offer he can't refuse.


Quite possible that he retires though. Cap hit still exists but the player Ian gone. Pretty tradeable to a bottom feeder then and he won't block a deal when he's not going to play.


Yeah, guess that's one way to get out of it.

Let's all hope he stays healthy and full of pride then :) I can't imagine he signed that deal with the expectation of not playing it out. He's been a pretty durable guy through his career, and plays a pretty light game. Wow, just looked. Hasn't missed a game since 08/09.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Matthews is better than McDavid - E5 [message #698006 is a reply to message #698000 ]
Fri, 28 July 2017 08:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OilPeg  is currently offline OilPeg
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Location: Winnipeg

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Kr55 wrote on Thu, 27 July 2017 22:06


Yeah, guess that's one way to get out of it.

Let's all hope he stays healthy and full of pride then :) I can't imagine he signed that deal with the expectation of not playing it out. He's been a pretty durable guy through his career, and plays a pretty light game. Wow, just looked. Hasn't missed a game since 08/09.


Wow...he's only missed 31 games in his entire career. That's amazing.

Can you trade a retired player though? If he officially retires on a 35+ contract, aren't there penalties against the team that signed it? Isn't there something about Vancouver still being stuck with Luongo penalties if he retires early?

Here's an example regarding Chris Pronger. Doesn't say anything about trading the contract though, but it does prove that had Pronger retired, Philadelphia would be on the hook for that cap hit regardless of where he was playing.
http://www.colliganhockey.com/nhl-cba-35-older-contracts/

Here's an example regarding Marian Hossa's situation. This was written before his skin disorder revelation and proves pretty prophetic in how it's laid out. Again though, no mention of trading a retired player.
https://www.secondcityhockey.com/2016/3/9/11185632/marian-ho ssa-nhl-salary-cap-recapture-penalty-blackhawks-retirement-l tir

Only other example I can think of is Pavel Datsyuk, but did he actually retire or did he technically just hold out and Detroit, and then Arizona, just didn't suspend him to retain the year on his contract? I don't believe Marleau can officially retire, i think he just has to not report to the team he's traded to, but that new team just doesn't suspend him officially. But then does that count against the 23 man roster? Is there an inactive list?



Skookum Jim wrote on Sat, 02 June 2012 00:29

But he (Belanger)'s as soft as room temp. margarine.

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 Re: Matthews is better than McDavid - E5 [message #698007 is a reply to message #698006 ]
Fri, 28 July 2017 08:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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OilPeg wrote on Fri, 28 July 2017 08:14

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 27 July 2017 22:06


Yeah, guess that's one way to get out of it.

Let's all hope he stays healthy and full of pride then :) I can't imagine he signed that deal with the expectation of not playing it out. He's been a pretty durable guy through his career, and plays a pretty light game. Wow, just looked. Hasn't missed a game since 08/09.


Wow...he's only missed 31 games in his entire career. That's amazing.

Can you trade a retired player though? If he officially retires on a 35+ contract, aren't there penalties against the team that signed it? Isn't there something about Vancouver still being stuck with Luongo penalties if he retires early?

Here's an example regarding Chris Pronger. Doesn't say anything about trading the contract though, but it does prove that had Pronger retired, Philadelphia would be on the hook for that cap hit regardless of where he was playing.
http://www.colliganhockey.com/nhl-cba-35-older-contracts/

Here's an example regarding Marian Hossa's situation. This was written before his skin disorder revelation and proves pretty prophetic in how it's laid out. Again though, no mention of trading a retired player.
https://www.secondcityhockey.com/2016/3/9/11185632/marian-ho ssa-nhl-salary-cap-recapture-penalty-blackhawks-retirement-l tir

Only other example I can think of is Pavel Datsyuk, but did he actually retire or did he technically just hold out and Detroit, and then Arizona, just didn't suspend him to retain the year on his contract? I don't believe Marleau can officially retire, i think he just has to not report to the team he's traded to, but that new team just doesn't suspend him officially. But then does that count against the 23 man roster? Is there an inactive list?


Yeah, I searched too and couldn't find anything about how an officially retired players cap hit is handled. I figured it would just become something like a buyout, and be categorized differently as a permanent unmovable thing on the teams books. I'm failing to find an example though. I think Detroit just left Datsyuk's contract active and were letting it ride out without having to pay him. Kinda like Datsyuk is just not honouring his side of the deal so no one has to pay him, but the contract still just sits there. He can't really say he retired when he's off playing in Russia.


Edit: nvm, https://www.nhl.com/news/pavel-datsyuk-leaving-red-wings-to- play-in-russia/c-280994594. Datsyuk signed NHL retirement papers apparently. So, his contract does become just a lingering contract that can be traded to other teams. So, leafs fans are counting on that 3rd year for Marleau just being some extra year Marleau never intended to play.

[Updated on: Fri, 28 July 2017 09:04]


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 Re: Matthews is better than McDavid - E5 [message #698009 is a reply to message #698007 ]
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On a normal contract, if the player retires the cap hit goes away.

In the case of Datsyuk (and Pronger), they signed contracts after they turned 35. There is a different rule for contracts signed after the player turns 35. Those contract stay on the books no matter what. If Marleau plays one year and retires, the Leafs are still on the hook for years 2 and 3.

Contracts like Luongo (and Weber, and a few others) were signed before the last CBA, and in that CBA they put rules in to retroactively punish teams for signing players to long contracts where all the money was guarenteed up front. Contracts like this are subject to 'Cap recapture' if the player retires before the end of the contract. "Cap recapture" basically forces the team that signed the player (Canucks in Luongo's case) to pay the difference between the actual money the player has made to that point minus the players cap hit at the point of retirement in a cap hit spead across the number of years left in the contract. If Luongo was to retire after next season, He would have made $57 million in real dollars but his cap hit during that tie would have only been 42.5 million, therefore the Canucks would be on the hook for (57-42.5)/4 = $3.625 million per year for 4 years in recapture penalties.



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 Re: Matthews is better than McDavid - E5 [message #698011 is a reply to message #698009 ]
Fri, 28 July 2017 10:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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NetBOG wrote on Fri, 28 July 2017 09:54

On a normal contract, if the player retires the cap hit goes away.

In the case of Datsyuk (and Pronger), they signed contracts after they turned 35. There is a different rule for contracts signed after the player turns 35. Those contract stay on the books no matter what. If Marleau plays one year and retires, the Leafs are still on the hook for years 2 and 3.

Contracts like Luongo (and Weber, and a few others) were signed before the last CBA, and in that CBA they put rules in to retroactively punish teams for signing players to long contracts where all the money was guarenteed up front. Contracts like this are subject to 'Cap recapture' if the player retires before the end of the contract. "Cap recapture" basically forces the team that signed the player (Canucks in Luongo's case) to pay the difference between the actual money the player has made to that point minus the players cap hit at the point of retirement in a cap hit spead across the number of years left in the contract. If Luongo was to retire after next season, He would have made $57 million in real dollars but his cap hit during that tie would have only been 42.5 million, therefore the Canucks would be on the hook for (57-42.5)/4 = $3.625 million per year for 4 years in recapture penalties.


Yeah, know the 35+ rule means you can't get out of the contract, but was wondering what the state of that lingering contract actually is. If it's like a buyout, where it's stuck on your books and you can't do anything about it. Or if it's still like a normal contract that can be moved around. Looks like, based on what happened with Datsyuk, that the contract can be moved, which Detroit ended up doing. The Pronger situation is a dit different because he is on LTIR, he never actually retired, just an unofficial retirement so he can keep collecting his salary.



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 Re: Matthews is better than McDavid - E5 [message #698012 is a reply to message #698007 ]
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Oddly enough, Datsyuk's birthday is on July 20th, so the year the Wings signed him, they could have had it be a regular contract if he had signed early. Seems like a mistake on Holland's part to let it go past his birthday before he signed.


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 Re: Matthews is better than McDavid - E5 [message #698016 is a reply to message #698012 ]
Fri, 28 July 2017 10:12 Go to previous message
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NetBOG wrote on Fri, 28 July 2017 10:02

Oddly enough, Datsyuk's birthday is on July 20th, so the year the Wings signed him, they could have had it be a regular contract if he had signed early. Seems like a mistake on Holland's part to let it go past his birthday before he signed.


I seem to remember there were a few of these where there was a misunderstanding on the rule. I believe with Pronger's last contract the Flyers didn't think he counted as 35+ based on when he signed it...



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 Re: Matthews is better than McDavid - E5 [message #697961 is a reply to message #697926 ]
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smyth260 wrote on Tue, 25 July 2017 23:05

I suspect this is nothing more than click driven. Torontonians would eat this idea up.

With that said, I do think Toronto's staff and management group is going to help Matthews win a cup a lot more than ours is going to help McDavid.


So you must think that signing a 37 yr old, will be 38 yr old when camp starts to a 3 yr, 6.25 mill cap hit is really good idea and is helping the Leafs win? I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

I like Marleau and on a 1 yr deal, I would have no issue because he had 27 goals. But anything longer than a 1 yr deal to a soon to be 38 yr old is completely insanity. People can complain about the Lucic contract being too long but he was 28 when he signed it. Not soon to be 38.



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 Re: Matthews is better than McDavid - E5 [message #697971 is a reply to message #697925 ]
Wed, 26 July 2017 15:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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It sure looks like sports writers can be trolls too. What a moron.


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 Re: Matthews is better than McDavid - E5 [message #697982 is a reply to message #697971 ]
Thu, 27 July 2017 07:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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The Leafs, much like the Sabres are dependent on health. Any two of Matthews/Kadri/Reilly/Gardner/Marner/Nylander go down for a significant chunk of time and they're a lottery team.

That goes for most teams, but the difference being a team like the Flames would be a middling team and not a cellar dweller.



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 Re: Matthews is better than McDavid - E5 [message #697983 is a reply to message #697982 ]
Thu, 27 July 2017 08:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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inverno76 wrote on Thu, 27 July 2017 07:53



The Leafs, much like the Sabres are dependent on health. Any two of Matthews/Kadri/Reilly/Gardner/Marner/Nylander go down for a significant chunk of time and they're a lottery team.

That goes for most teams, but the difference being a team like the Flames would be a middling team and not a cellar dweller.



Leafs are about to go through a cycle of their vets as well. Bozak and JVR are bashed a lot by their fans, but they were extremely helpful in allowing Babcock to shelter their young players. Babcock loves his vets, and he will want to either keep those guys, or have Lou going to the UFA pool to replace them, likely at a higher price.



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 Re: Matthews is better than McDavid - E5 [message #697992 is a reply to message #697983 ]
Thu, 27 July 2017 09:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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What's shocking to me about the Leafs is currently they are almost 4 mill over the cap. Now I know they have some players who can go on LTIR - Horton being on of them- that will drop them down but I can't believe they are that high. They have some pretty important players coming up as UFA's at the end of the year. Van Riemsdyk is making 4.25 which is a really good number and will be looking for a raise if they want to keep him. If he goes, you have to replace him with someone. Bozak at 4.2 mill is actually not too bad, he had 55 pts last year while being a good 2 way center, wins draws. He is an assistant captain so you have to keep or replace him. If you keep him and he has another decent year, I doubt he signs for less. To get a replacement, I don't know if you are going to find someone that does what he can for too much less.

Then some of their signings this year are strange. They sign Marleau to a 3 yr, 6.25 mill deal and he will be 38 in Sept. Marleau had 27 goals so if you want to sign him to a 1 yr, 6.25 mill deal, I get that but 3 years for a 38 yr old? The signed Hainsey who's 36 to a 2 yr deal for 3 mill per. Hainsey played well for the Pens but he's not the fastest of skaters, he doesn't put up points and he's going to be 38 at the end of the deal. When you have young players you want to have some vets for them to lean on but usually you want vets that are capable of playing at a high level. They invested almost 10 mill on 2 guys that will be 38 and 36 at the start of camp. Given their age, you have to think they will drop off. Especially Marleau. He's played his entire career in San Jose. He's used to warm weather, very little media on a daily basis and he plays in a somewhat non hockey market. Now he goes to basically the #1 hockey market in the NHL with probably the most media coverage in the league. That is a MASSIVE lifestyle change. I can only imagine what the media will be like if in December he is off to a slow start.

[Updated on: Thu, 27 July 2017 09:17]


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