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 Oilers » Review: Detroit @ Edmonton (Game #15)Pages (3): [ «  <  1  2  3  >  »]
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 Re: The Game, This Team [message #612958 is a reply to message #612956 ]
Sat, 02 November 2013 23:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skoobz  is currently offline Skoobz
Messages: 2261
Registered: January 2006
Location: Section 223

2 Cups

To me, it seems like a basic team chemistry issue. These guys don't give enough craps about each other to get up for the games. Hence, butter soft play, hopeless toe drags, no pushback.

And that lack of crap giving for sure goes right to the top.

The players don't care about each other, or the coach, or (especially) the management, or (sadly) the logo on their chests.

The good news is that the owner LOVES the management, loves the sold out building, and loves the logo on the chests of the guys on his VHS tapes from the 80s. As for the current reputation of the franchise, the fans, and the on-ice product... Uh no. No craps given.



"I'm not reading Skoobz' banter." - NotLeeFogolin
Buy out Nikitin.

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 Re: The Game, This Team [message #612970 is a reply to message #612956 ]
Sun, 03 November 2013 07:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
g2k  is currently offline g2k
Messages: 6209
Registered: January 2003
Location: tracking mice

6 Cups

Goose wrote on Sat, 02 November 2013 23:44

nullterm wrote on Sat, 02 November 2013 22:34

Skoobz wrote on Sat, 02 November 2013 22:33

I basically cringed the entire interview, just horrible stuff to hear, and indicative of a still very toxic reality.


PVRing Ference so I can watch it after 1260 post game.

Struddy basically called out the Oilers saying they have no idea what a hard working NHL hockey team looks like, in game and in practice. A bunch of kids running around pretending to be NHLers.

Gagner on being boo'ed off the ice: "We deserved it."


I watched the beginning of the Ference bit on After Hours, a lot of what he was saying was that they need more guys buying into the system and executing it all the time.

I disagree that it's just a case of guys not caring. There's just too many guys on this team that have excelled (including in the NHL) for this to be the case. I think it goes deeper than that.

They're a young team that has no confidence right now. Lots of blame to go around, but they actually started the season out pretty solid (preseason included), and got horrid goaltending to start the regular season. Special teams didn't help them out and they were behind the 8-ball immediately.

Eakins basically said that they are playing scared, and waiting for something bad to happen. I said something similar to this in another post, and I really think that's their main issue right now.

There are too many good players on this team for them to be this bad. And I don't accept at all that they "need more compete", whatever the hell that means. Does anyone honestly think that they aren't trying out there?


Some good points, but what about all the perimeter play? It's gotten pathetic. You won't convince me that's anything BUT a lack of compete. There are not enough players on this team willing to pay the price for some success.

Datsiuk is good enough to chip it in, but Eberle isn't. Toe dragging and blind back passes hurt a lot less the dumping and chasing. These kids still think they know it all and continue to "attempt" the painless route. And don't even get me started about that area in front of the net. Swooping in and out like barn swallows. That's a lack of compete that seems woven into their DNA now.

The only way to win battles is to compete. And this team loses almost every battle. They were out worked on every part of this ice last night.

[Updated on: Sun, 03 November 2013 07:56]


Limecat Logic

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 Re: The Game, This Team [message #612982 is a reply to message #612970 ]
Sun, 03 November 2013 10:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rekkin  is currently offline Rekkin
Messages: 880
Registered: September 2003
Location: Halfway 'tween Heaven and...

No Cups

This organization has destroyed our young talent by rushing them into the league too soon with 0 results to show for it. It is a disaster of epic proportions orchestrated by Kevin Lowe. We are doomed, and may Odin have mercy on our souls.


The people you are sure are wrong are just as sure that you are wrong. The only difference is they're wrong. - God @TheTweetOfGod

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 Re: The Game, This Team [message #613006 is a reply to message #612982 ]
Sun, 03 November 2013 15:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
Messages: 2978
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

2 Cups

Rekkin wrote on Sun, 03 November 2013 09:55

This organization has destroyed our young talent by rushing them into the league too soon with 0 results to show for it. It is a disaster of epic proportions orchestrated by Kevin Lowe. We are doomed, and may Odin have mercy on our souls.


Agree with the destroyed part, but I blame not surrounding them with winners, some physical security, and guys who will show them how to play with some courage, pride, instead of the gutless, weak, loser squad they've been dumped into.

Rookies have all been beat up and injured, learning to play scared, and loss of development because of it. The purge should have started 4 years ago.



Keep on Rockin' in the Free World

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 Re: The Game, This Team [message #612984 is a reply to message #612970 ]
Sun, 03 November 2013 11:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
Messages: 1019
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver

1 Cup

g2k wrote on Sun, 03 November 2013 06:18


Some good points, but what about all the perimeter play? It's gotten pathetic. You won't convince me that's anything BUT a lack of compete. There are not enough players on this team willing to pay the price for some success.

Datsiuk is good enough to chip it in, but Eberle isn't. Toe dragging and blind back passes hurt a lot less the dumping and chasing. These kids still think they know it all and continue to "attempt" the painless route. And don't even get me started about that area in front of the net. Swooping in and out like barn swallows. That's a lack of compete that seems woven into their DNA now.

The only way to win battles is to compete. And this team loses almost every battle. They were out worked on every part of this ice last night.


Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say that this team is a Stanley Cup contender right now if they could just find some confidence. They've got other issues beyond that (lack of NHL level defenceman depth - not to mention an actual top pairing defenceman, ridiculously bad goaltending right now, etc.).

But I also don't believe that they're a 3-10-2 hockey team either. And I think this current 5 game skid (and especially the last 2 blowouts) has more to do with them not being decisive and assertive out there. Look at the first goal by Detroit last night. That pass bounces through 2 Oilers before it gets to Petry, and he looks like he can't decide whether to play it with his foot or his stick, gets crossed up, and the puck is through him and Helm is off to the races. Bachman's got to make that save, but that's another story. If that were Pronger when he was here, that pass never gets through and that goal never happens.

Then on the 2nd one, the Oilers turn the puck over at the Detroit blue-line, Petry (again) overcommits right, then left chasing the puck as Detroit enters the zone, never gets set, and the Red Wings are able to pass the puck all over the place. He's not being lazy, and I don't think he's afraid to make contact at that point. It looks to me like he doesn't want to get burned and he scrambles just trying to chase the puck around. He's got no confidence in where he's supposed to be or what he's supposed to be doing.

I know it seems silly, but I wonder where this team would be if they hadn't blown that 4-2 lead against Winnipeg in the first game of the season.



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 Re: The Game, This Team [message #612949 is a reply to message #612947 ]
Sat, 02 November 2013 23:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
Messages: 1019
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver

1 Cup

sloiler wrote on Sat, 02 November 2013 22:16

So that he can get out of the deal with the new stadium and move the team.


I understand that everyone is frustrated and venting, but how does this make any sense? Does anyone really believe that Seattle would somehow be a better market than Edmonton? They've sucked for 7 years and there's still people paying to be on the waiting list for season tickets. There's not one available market in the US right now that would make Katz more money than Edmonton with a new stadium.



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 Re: The Game, This Team [message #612950 is a reply to message #612947 ]
Sat, 02 November 2013 23:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm  is currently offline nullterm
Messages: 7702
Registered: July 2007
Location: Port Moody, BC

6 Cups

sloiler wrote on Sat, 02 November 2013 22:16

The Oilers are like a car accident on the side of the highway, even though you know it is gruesome you have to look. When you do it is sorry horrible you wish you wouldn't have looked at it.
Does anyone really think that Katz is going to make a statement and fire anyone? I don't. I have a feeling that he wants the team to suck so badly that the attendance drops off so badly aka Florida Phoenix. So that he can get out of the deal with the new stadium and move the team. There will be no magical trade that will fix this team, there will be no coaching change there will be nothing. Just a pile of poop.


I'm coming to the conclusion that the team simply needs to blown up.

It's like Mythbusters when they've spent months and a dozen experiments trying to recreate something. Then they get to the end of the rope and tie 20lbs of plastic explosive to it, blow it to kingdom come, then go home and drink beers bragging about how they got to blow something up to the wife and kids.

And I mean complete scorched earth. Like not trade one kid. I mean, keep one, maybe. It will hurt, but this will not magically come together as the next Pens or Hawks. Guaranteed.

[Updated on: Sat, 02 November 2013 23:31]


Illegitimi non carborundum.

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 Re: The Game, This Team [message #612951 is a reply to message #612950 ]
Sat, 02 November 2013 23:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Suomalainen  is currently offline Suomalainen
Messages: 2637
Registered: May 2002
Location: Sadly, Cowtown

2 Cups

With innovation at a tech company, we are guided to Fail Fast when we are trying out new projects. If its not viable within a certain timeframe, its done.

This is the opposite.



Back-to-back prediction champ

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 Re: Review: Detroit @ Edmonton (Game #15) [message #612959 is a reply to message #612878 ]
Sat, 02 November 2013 23:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
haggis  is currently offline haggis
Messages: 917
Registered: September 2000
Location: St. Albert

No Cups

Maybe I'm blind, but this year and last I saw nothing to suggest that Yaks is going to turn into much in this league. Sure he has the skill but his hockey sense makes Hemsky look like Scotty Bowman. I can't remember the last time I saw him do anything that was effective. On D he's just a warm body skating around and playing forward his game is absolutely frantic, I'd hate to be on the ice with him as I'd have no clue what he'd be doing next.

Maybe I'm completely out to lunch but I'd be shopping this guy league-wide before the glamour of the 1st overall label has faded.



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 Re: Review: Detroit @ Edmonton (Game #15) [message #612963 is a reply to message #612959 ]
Sun, 03 November 2013 00:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
K.McC#24  is currently offline K.McC#24
Messages: 2598
Registered: March 2004
Location: ALBERTA

2 Cups

haggis wrote on Sat, 02 November 2013 23:57

Maybe I'm blind, but this year and last I saw nothing to suggest that Yaks is going to turn into much in this league. Sure he has the skill but his hockey sense makes Hemsky look like Scotty Bowman. I can't remember the last time I saw him do anything that was effective. On D he's just a warm body skating around and playing forward his game is absolutely frantic, I'd hate to be on the ice with him as I'd have no clue what he'd be doing next.

Maybe I'm completely out to lunch but I'd be shopping this guy league-wide before the glamour of the 1st overall label has faded.


Well that brings up another point, that 1st rounder for June has a good market value and keeps getting better. It has an excellent chance to be a top 4 pick.



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 Re: Review: Detroit @ Edmonton (Game #15) [message #612962 is a reply to message #612878 ]
Sun, 03 November 2013 00:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hemmer2Eberle  is currently offline Hemmer2Eberle
Messages: 1970
Registered: March 2010
Location: Edmonton, Alberta

1 Cup

I'm spent. I have cared for too long and it has gotten me nothing. I'm all out.

F this team and everything involved with it.

Cancelling Centre Ice tomorrow.



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 Re: Review: Detroit @ Edmonton (Game #15) [message #612964 is a reply to message #612962 ]
Sun, 03 November 2013 01:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jerekybeef  is currently offline jerekybeef
Messages: 775
Registered: July 2006
Location: Kamloops

No Cups

Don't quit now, it's just getting good.



Well, friends the time has come to usher in a new era. One in which we hold our heads high and proudly say, "We were Oilers once, and men too"

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 Re: Review: Detroit @ Edmonton (Game #15) [message #612966 is a reply to message #612878 ]
Sun, 03 November 2013 03:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
Messages: 2836
Registered: October 2005
Location: Edmonton

2 Cups

I can't really find a positive anymore.

It's a miracle that fans are still paying for this display (I'm guilty of this too, btw). 14 wins in the last 42 home games. 0 regulation wins at home this season. 1-5-0 at home this year. Over 120 minutes without a goal. It's a terrible on-ice product.

Our best players on a nightly basis are the guys we most recently called up from OKC.

Arcobello, Hemsky, Jones, Belov, and Larsen showed a pulse occasionally. Smid and Petry were terrible. And I can't quite nail it down, but Eberle has really been irritating me with his play lately.

What a terrible game.



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 Re: Review: Detroit @ Edmonton (Game #15) [message #612967 is a reply to message #612878 ]
Sun, 03 November 2013 04:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ronster  is currently offline ronster
Messages: 1034
Registered: October 2005

1 Cup

Funny stuff being posted...

Just finished work, had some time to chill and gain some perspective.

It seems a few more people are buying into "going Fukushima on this team" and blow it sky high. I fully agree.

Some may say the kids are competing, but IMO they aren't...not to the level they should be. They might be trying hard INDIVIDUALLY on the ice (too hard at times) but not as a TEAM. They don't get how to win. They still go back to "old habits".

Is it because the "veteran" leadership didn't steer them the right way and now is effectively gone? Is it because they are just perimeter players who cant adjust to playing a physical game? Is it the multiple schemes and formations over the years have confused the players?

From what I see, I see players not fully engaged in the team concept. the "buy in" that it takes everybody to win, not one of two guys. I don't see a willingness to do WHATEVER it takes to win. Hit somebody, don't glide into the corner and wave your stick at him for example!


It's proven with multiple head coaches, multiple changes in players and management, Medical staff changes, fitness changes...nothing on ice has changed. The same Oiler team today is the same ones who finished last in the Western Conference for years. No passion, no semblance of structure, no real team.

They might win a couple games on the road away from Rexall this trip, but effectively the season is a wash.


I can see MacT now saying "injuries were a major factor and the only reason we didn't make the playoffs". Really the problems have been there for years.

I just don't know with this group of players if you can overcome this. I don't see the mental toughness required to pull the out of this hole. No amount of #1 draft picks can fix this.


Everybody points to Pittsburgh and Chicago...its great they have some of the best players in the game today but it's what surrounds them that makes them so great.

I said it before other than the obvious choices, what has Stu MacGregor proved?


If we don't have the right mix, when will we?


On a different note, I would love to see what MacT's vaunted analytic guys say now?

MacT: hey guys just wondering if you have the latest...

AG: dude everything is in the negative. Corsi is so brutal it should be put down and shot. In fact our systems can't even compute to that negative integer.

MacT: Come on it cant be that bad. The guys are just...

AG: Plain awful? I can't stress how negative it is. Really maybe they should take up badminton?

MacT: Is there something, some number that reflects something positive?

AG: Yes there is. You have 67 games left until the 2014 NHL draft. At this rate you have a 93% chance of picking #1 again.

MacT: You're fired.

AG: Thanks. Gillis just called said he needs a new analytics guy to figure out why Luongo is playing good. Can't figure it out....





[Updated on: Sun, 03 November 2013 04:32]


Adam wrote


Maybe it's fitting to have found religion in the room because on most nights this team doesn't have a prayer.

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 Re: Review: Detroit @ Edmonton (Game #15) [message #612969 is a reply to message #612967 ]
Sun, 03 November 2013 06:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Babaganoosh  is currently offline Babaganoosh
Messages: 2727
Registered: January 2009
Location: Medicine Hat,AB

2 Cups

The real question here is how could 45% of people think we had a chance before it started. I tried to watch but after those two quickys i went and got hammered and shot pool. Love Eakins systems. Done wonders for our special teams. If only he could motivate his players and make adjustments to his systems when they dont work. Would almost be like having a coach back there. Nah lets just keep slamming our heads off the ole brick wall again and again. MacT clock is ticking. Or is this year already a write off.

[Updated on: Sun, 03 November 2013 06:54]


" If you have anything good to say, say it off!"

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 Re: Review: Detroit @ Edmonton (Game #15) [message #612981 is a reply to message #612969 ]
Sun, 03 November 2013 10:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Magnum  is currently offline Magnum
Messages: 4415
Registered: June 2009
Location: In a Prism of Frustration

4 Cups

Silver lining, Ryan Jones gets 0 points.




Learning is the most important part of learning basic defence.

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 Re: Review: Detroit @ Edmonton (Game #15) [message #612986 is a reply to message #612981 ]
Sun, 03 November 2013 12:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
6zeppelin6  is currently offline 6zeppelin6
Messages: 1208
Registered: May 2006

1 Cup

I am starting to think that Katz and Rexall have a patent on some sort of new drug that cures whatever they are trying to subject Oiler fans to. Perhaps its a drug that cures liver failure, so he's driving us all to drink to that point.






HOPE

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 Re: Review: Detroit @ Edmonton (Game #15) [message #612987 is a reply to message #612986 ]
Sun, 03 November 2013 12:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ragnarok73  is currently offline Ragnarok73
Messages: 2621
Registered: February 2011

2 Cups

6zeppelin6 wrote on Sun, 03 November 2013 12:22

I am starting to think that Katz and Rexall have a patent on some sort of new drug that cures whatever they are trying to subject Oiler fans to. Perhaps its a drug that cures liver failure, so he's driving us all to drink to that point.

Oh no, I'm not giving that curly-haired a-hole another cent of my money. I think I'm just going to cut down on the number of games I watch this season, because my liver seriously can't take much more of this garbage, not to mention my sanity.



"Life is warfare and the sojourn of a stranger in a strange land." - Marcus Aurelius

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 Re: Review: Detroit @ Edmonton (Game #15) [message #612991 is a reply to message #612987 ]
Sun, 03 November 2013 12:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NetBOG  is currently offline NetBOG
Messages: 1468
Registered: January 2006
Location: Parts Unknown

1 Cup

Ragnarok73 wrote on Sun, 03 November 2013 12:24

6zeppelin6 wrote on Sun, 03 November 2013 12:22

I am starting to think that Katz and Rexall have a patent on some sort of new drug that cures whatever they are trying to subject Oiler fans to. Perhaps its a drug that cures liver failure, so he's driving us all to drink to that point.

Oh no, I'm not giving that curly-haired a-hole another cent of my money. I think I'm just going to cut down on the number of games I watch this season, because my liver seriously can't take much more of this garbage, not to mention my sanity.



I know multiple people who unfortunately have had first hand experience working with Katz.

He's a far worse human being than he is an NHL owner.



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 Sellout streak ended?? Or typo? [message #612994 is a reply to message #612878 ]
Sun, 03 November 2013 13:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 3824
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

3 Cups

http://www.nhl.com/scores/htmlreports/20132014/GS020210.HTM

Says 16,389 instead of the usual 16,839.

About damn time if the 16,389 is accurate.

That streak was alive since 2005. That's quite the constant flow of easy money for Lowe and gang for very little productive work.



..talk is cheap
..success is coming
..the game that we present and stage for the fans most nights is one of very, very high entertainment
..limitless potential
..good structural improvement

Eakins: I know EXACTLY what we need to do next year...

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 Re: Sellout streak ended?? Or typo? [message #612995 is a reply to message #612994 ]
Sun, 03 November 2013 13:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm  is currently offline nullterm
Messages: 7702
Registered: July 2007
Location: Port Moody, BC

6 Cups

oobga wrote on Sun, 03 November 2013 12:39

http://www.nhl.com/scores/htmlreports/20132014/GS020210.HTM

Says 16,389 instead of the usual 16,839.

About damn time if the 16,389 is accurate.

That streak was alive since 2005. That's quite the constant flow of easy money for Lowe and gang for very little productive work.


I hope the Oilers don't sell another ticket than what they have already this season.

The fans have supported this team far better than the team has deserved.

The fans deserve better, far far better.

Spend that $100+ per head on something that'll actually make you happy, like a big expensive steak dinner or a night on the town.

Maybe then "management" will get the pink slips they've earned for dragging its loyal fans into the mud with them in those supposed "rebuild."

Until Lowe and his best buds are gone, not another cent towards the Oilers.



Illegitimi non carborundum.

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 Re: Sellout streak ended?? Or typo? [message #613009 is a reply to message #612995 ]
Sun, 03 November 2013 15:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oilerman53  is currently offline Oilerman53
Messages: 935
Registered: September 2007
Location: LLoyd

No Cups

I kept saying this team needs some veteran leadership and everyone always scoffs at me. Look atthe Wings still employing "slow" guys lime Bertuzzi and Holmstrom. I wonder whats the whole perception and general distrust in proven veterand on this team? There are quite a few guys out there who still occupy a spot in the lineup and have lost some steps. But the intangible is and has always been there for these types of players. Guys like Scott Thornton, Jay McClement, John Madden and Dan Cleary.

This team can only use so many coaching changes but who in this room knows whattl true leadership is? How many here put down Ryan Smyth and his slow feet? Hes done and hes horrid out out there? I'd take ten Ryan Smyths over 100 Nuge, Eberles and Yakupovs right now. On defense we have Ference who played in a great system in Boston with Chara and Boychuk. I dont wanna stereotype but Ference looks way more douchey then Hall with all of his tattoos. Were not a biker team, Hall should have been given the C. This is his team, he is the bull here, I know I said he could be a useful part of a trade but thats because his vote of confidence from the organization went with the appointing of Ference as captain. And he still has high value to get a stud dman. Thid team needs a culture change and veteran leadership



After 8 years of ineptitude you begin to wonder whose the real schmuck? Them for sucking or me for cheering....... *cracks open bottle of whiskey*.

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 Re: Sellout streak ended?? Or typo? [message #613011 is a reply to message #613009 ]
Sun, 03 November 2013 16:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm  is currently offline nullterm
Messages: 7702
Registered: July 2007
Location: Port Moody, BC

6 Cups

I'd take one Hartnell over ten Smyths. We need guys who take it to the other team, rather than being taken to the woodshed all night and do nothing.


Illegitimi non carborundum.

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 Re: Review: Detroit @ Edmonton (Game #15) [message #613022 is a reply to message #612878 ]
Sun, 03 November 2013 20:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260  is currently offline smyth260
Messages: 2303
Registered: November 2007

2 Cups

After losing 4-0 to Toronto at home, I thought that that game was the lowest of lows I've felt ever about this team, and that would a wake up call of some sorts.

Only the Oilers would lose even worse at home than they did after 3 days off against a team playing their 3rd road game in 4 nights to a goalie playing his first NHL game.




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 Re: Review: Detroit @ Edmonton (Game #15) [message #613028 is a reply to message #612878 ]
Sun, 03 November 2013 22:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 9876
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

I was at last night's game, and besides from being soul-suckingly painful to watch, there's some interesting things that I think are more plain when you're at the game in person than when you're watching on TV.

First of all, the Oilers' defensive scheme still calls for all five players to retreat beneath the top of the circles. This left the points wide open and Detroit took advantage of that throughout the night, sending the puck back up which kept the Oilers wingers skating miles, and made for several good chances off point shots.

The breakout has now gone from one where the team had a long bomb option who was then one-on-three, to one where everyone is so low that they struggle to advance the puck completely.

Detroit had an answer for everything we threw at them, which was actually shockingly little. Their tactics were much, much better than ours. We got outcoached, outplayed, and outworked. It's now been what...160-some minutes of hockey since our last goal?

I have to say, it was one of the worst games I've ever seen Eberle play. It was like he figured he has to score his goal to get in to the TSN plays of the year soon, and so he's going to the bag of tricks on every rush rather than using his linemates. Unlike when Yakupov does that, no media guy or coach calls out Eberle for that sin though for some reason.

I did not get to see the Ference interview last night, but some of what people have said here concerns me a lot. First off, why are we throwing people who aren't here anymore under the bus? The suggestion that there's two sets of rules suggests that either coaches or management in the past set the team up for a bad atmosphere. Considering everyone but the last two head coaches are still here, that's quite the accusation. It also lobs a bomb at all the players who were here before...One would assume, especially given Lowe's comments on veterans, that Hall, Eberle and company were given free reign to do what they pleased. Got to love when your captain suggests on national television something like that. Of course, we know at least one of the veterans, brought in and lauded for his leadership skills, pulled a major pouting act when sat last year for a single game.

Besides, it's not like they've fixed anything here. This team has actually started off worse with Ference and Eakins than it ever did under Renney or Krueger and Horcoff. And if we're going to talk about the damaging impact of favouritism, it's interesting that we're not talking about the untouchable assistant coaches or the head coach bringing two career AHLers that played with him before and gifting them spots on the roster.

I'd prefer to see Ference doing something of note on the ice. In 15 games, Ference has 1 goal on 19 shots with 8 penalty minutes, a -2 rating, 32 hits, 14 blocked shots. He doesn't appear to me to be "teaching the team how to win" when he's badmouthing people on HNIC.

This week, we've seen MacTavish give the team exactly the excuse I said they shouldn't give them...telling the world that the mix isn't just right and that he's interested in finding a deal. However much he might think that, I don't think it should have been said to the media because now the players can let themselves off the hook. Yeah, we suck and we've been booed off the ice more often than not when playing at home, but it's not really our fault, because we don't have the right mix.

We've also seen the coach say that his system had to be tweaked, not because of issues with the system, but rather because his simpleton players had never been taught defensive fundamentals.

We've seen a player with a poor history of strong defensive play and faceoff ability, coming off a serious injury return to the lineup and bump a guy who had been doing an admirable job at both out of the centre position. Oh, and then he proceeded to get eaten up on defensive play and faceoffs.

We've seen a career minor leaguer favourite of the coach come back of another long injury and get inserted straight in to the lineup in the top nine, rather than sending him back to OKC to get conditioned and bringing up the guy who plays the same position and is excelling for the Barons despite playing with a couple nobodies named Stretch and Miller.

Ference is right about one thing...things are rotten in the state of the Oilers dressing room. I don't know what the solution is, but everything is a mess right now. Confidence, coaching, scoring, systems play, special teams...there's just nothing going right at all right now.

Thank god Hall is returning soon. One can only hope that he can grab the team and pull them to another victory or two before Christmas.



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 Re: Review: Detroit @ Edmonton (Game #15) [message #613029 is a reply to message #613028 ]
Sun, 03 November 2013 22:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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I think you should watch the Ference interview. I didn't think it was that bad at all. Perhaps I missed something, but what I remember was he said something along the lines of that the dressing room wasn't nearly as divided as he heard. I thought for the captain of a team at literally an all time low, he kept his composure. If he said anything controversial I must have missed it.



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 Re: Review: Detroit @ Edmonton (Game #15) [message #613030 is a reply to message #613029 ]
Sun, 03 November 2013 22:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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smyth260 wrote on Sun, 03 November 2013 22:49

I think you should watch the Ference interview. I didn't think it was that bad at all. Perhaps I missed something, but what I remember was he said something along the lines of that the dressing room wasn't nearly as divided as he heard. I thought for the captain of a team at literally an all time low, he kept his composure. If he said anything controversial I must have missed it.


I tried to watch it off the CBC site. Found a six minute segment of it, without any of the quotes mentioned here.



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 Re: Review: Detroit @ Edmonton (Game #15) [message #613064 is a reply to message #613030 ]
Mon, 04 November 2013 08:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Adam wrote on Sun, 03 November 2013 22:53

smyth260 wrote on Sun, 03 November 2013 22:49

I think you should watch the Ference interview. I didn't think it was that bad at all. Perhaps I missed something, but what I remember was he said something along the lines of that the dressing room wasn't nearly as divided as he heard. I thought for the captain of a team at literally an all time low, he kept his composure. If he said anything controversial I must have missed it.


I tried to watch it off the CBC site. Found a six minute segment of it, without any of the quotes mentioned here.


He said it wasn't as bad as he heard from others when he joined, but that it was bad before and players on the team didn't want it to be like that anymore. I forget what else he said bad about how it was aside from the coaches having 2 sets of rules for players (think that was between the young kids and the vets).

Basically things were bad, and they're working really hard to make them all better. Pretty much what you were saying, it's more blaming the past, and I suppose since everyone now wants it to change, most of the blame lies with people that have departed, like the previous coaches.


That said, Smid doesn't see much improvement yet.

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/edmonton-oilers /going+really+uncomfortable+disconnected/9119681/story.html? cid=dlvr.it-twitter-edmontonjournal

The quotes from Smid in the article, more of the same we heard from the start of the season:

Quote:

Dispirited captain Andrew Ference said he was at a loss for words after Saturday’s 5-0 defeat by the Red Wings. Head coach Dallas Eakins said his team had lost its confidence.

Defenceman Ladislav Smid, who has experienced his share of losses since 2006, said he was in shock.

“I don’t know if this is rock bottom (because) this can get worse. People are going to get traded, it’s going to get really uncomfortable for everyone now — and I don’t know if we realize that,” Smid said after the Oilers were outshot 31-14.

The Oilers have been outscored 17-2 in their last four home games, and are on another five-game losing skid.

“I’ve been through this a few times and it’s really uncomfortable,” said Smid. “I don’t think we should be in last place. We have good personnel, good guys in here, but we have to play as a team. It’s like everybody is on their own page, we’re so disconnected.

“We are not working hard enough. After two goals, we just kept our heads down. That’s unacceptable,” he continued. “It’s going to get uncomfortable, but that’s the only way to get out of this. And it has to start within the team. The coach can come in and yell and sit people in the box, but we have to make each other accountable.

“If the mistakes keep happening over and over, somebody has to stand up and tell him.”


“I guess it has to get uncomfortable in here, otherwise we’re just going to keep saying the right things but going on the ice where it will be the same old thing,” said Smid.

“This is one of the worst games I think I’ve played in, but I don’t think we realize this can get worse. We just have to keep our heads up somehow ... and whatever we say in the locker-room, we have to do out there.”


Wonder who taught our players the "everyone is on their own page" phrase. They really love saying it this year.

[Updated on: Mon, 04 November 2013 08:33]


..talk is cheap
..success is coming
..the game that we present and stage for the fans most nights is one of very, very high entertainment
..limitless potential
..good structural improvement

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 Re: Review: Detroit @ Edmonton (Game #15) [message #613071 is a reply to message #613064 ]
Mon, 04 November 2013 09:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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oobga wrote on Mon, 04 November 2013 08:29

Basically things were bad, and they're working really hard to make them all better. Pretty much what you were saying, it's more blaming the past, and I suppose since everyone now wants it to change, most of the blame lies with people that have departed, like the previous coaches.




I think that is one of the most frustrating things about the Oilers over the past few years. At every level, it's all about passing the blame, usually saying that it's the guys who are gone who held the team back...and yet the team never moves forward.

Same reasoning that I think saying that we don't have the right mix is a mistake, it becomes too easy to accept losing since it's never your fault. It's always what we don't have yet, what we didn't have before, what we still need to find. How about we just find a flipping pulse in the guys that are here and get them playing some hockey.

I was initially quite happy with Eakins comments this summer about figuring out how each guy ticks and then working to motivate them. I thought maybe we have a communicator who'll make the players responsible and push them to be better.

All I've seen from him is a whole lot of ego, even as his system gets absolutely picked apart by other teams and some ego-crushing moves:

- Yakupov was averaging 2.5 shots per game before getting benched, and is down to 1.89/game since. He looks to me like he's trying to remember exactly where Eakins wants him to be standing whenever he's on the ice, rather than reacting to where the puck is. There's too much thinking in his game right now.
- By throwing the first line to the wolves night after night even at home, he's managed to get to a point where they aren't producing offence AS WELL as looking shaky defensively.
- The defence has from top to bottom struggled this year. Not one of them has looked solid consistently, despite most having had some success at playing hockey in the past. That would seem to be indicative of systemic issues, which Eakins acknowledged this week...right before suggesting these guys don't know how to play basic defence.
- Goaltending is another area where there's been struggles, exacerbated by a system that allowed 10-15 point blank opportunities game after game. Shame that our defence is basically made up of guys who have no defensive fundamentals...that probably would have helped.

So now we've got a team that is 30th in Goals against (a full 10 goals more than the 29th place Buffalo Sabres). Despite our stable of phenomenal offensive players, we're not scoring either. We're 21st in the league in goals for. We're tied for dead last in goal differential at -23. Our PP that for a while looked scary good last year is now at 25th in the league, scoring on just 12% of their opportunities (meaning teams aren't afraid to take penalties against the Oilers, knowing that they are likely to score on only one in EIGHT man advantages). Our Penalty Kill has gone the same way. 27th in the league, killing off just 76% of odd-man situations.

The Oilers are 25th in shots for. 19th in shots against. 25th in shot differential. We're 26th in penalty differential, having taken 10 more minors than we've drawn.

This team is just across the board bad now.

I have a hard time blaming Tom Renney and Ralph Krueger for that.

[Updated on: Mon, 04 November 2013 09:39]


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 Re: Review: Detroit @ Edmonton (Game #15) [message #613096 is a reply to message #613071 ]
Mon, 04 November 2013 11:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Adam wrote on Mon, 04 November 2013 09:36



So now we've got a team that is 30th in Goals against (a full 10 goals more than the 29th place Buffalo Sabres). Despite our stable of phenomenal offensive players, we're not scoring either. We're 21st in the league in goals for. We're tied for dead last in goal differential at -23. Our PP that for a while looked scary good last year is now at 25th in the league, scoring on just 12% of their opportunities (meaning teams aren't afraid to take penalties against the Oilers, knowing that they are likely to score on only one in EIGHT man advantages). Our Penalty Kill has gone the same way. 27th in the league, killing off just 76% of odd-man situations.

The Oilers are 25th in shots for. 19th in shots against. 25th in shot differential. We're 26th in penalty differential, having taken 10 more minors than we've drawn.

This team is just across the board bad now.

I have a hard time blaming Tom Renney and Ralph Krueger for that.


Well, you can always blame injuries too :)

Pretty sure that will be the line this time around. Next Oil Change ep will be all about injuries and how the team is struggling because of them. Maybe a little dash of how past coaches didn't teach the players anything will be thrown in there, but will mainly be about injuries.

Just a side note, Matheson is saying the Oilers will be going after Hiller this off-season "if Devan Dubnyk (also unrestricted) doesn't pan out as their No. 1". Where did he get that info I wonder. Maybe we need a list of all the players the Oilers will be targeting this year and in the off-season. A list of players we would be willing to trade in exchange because we don't like them anymore would be nice too, or if it's a UFA we get, which disappointment of a player they will replace.

http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/2013/11/03/this-n-that-edmo nton-oilers-will-hotly-pursue-jonas-hiller-as-free-agent-if- devan-dubnyk-doesnt-work-out-in-goal/



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 Re: Review: Detroit @ Edmonton (Game #15) [message #613109 is a reply to message #613096 ]
Mon, 04 November 2013 13:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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oobga wrote on Mon, 04 November 2013 11:50


Just a side note, Matheson is saying the Oilers will be going after Hiller this off-season "if Devan Dubnyk (also unrestricted) doesn't pan out as their No. 1". Where did he get that info I wonder. Maybe we need a list of all the players the Oilers will be targeting this year and in the off-season. A list of players we would be willing to trade in exchange because we don't like them anymore would be nice too, or if it's a UFA we get, which disappointment of a player they will replace.

http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/2013/11/03/this-n-that-edmo nton-oilers-will-hotly-pursue-jonas-hiller-as-free-agent-if- devan-dubnyk-doesnt-work-out-in-goal/


I wonder if the Oilers ever consider that throwing out things like that can hurt their player's confidence? Like seriously, who was the genius who decided to leak a year and a half after the draft that the scouting staff wanted Murray instead of Yakupov? What is the motivation for letting that slip? What does it say to Yakupov? Most teams that pick anywhere in the top five will go to their grave swearing that whoever they got is the guy they had ranked #1 in any non-Crosby year, but not the Oilers...no, we have to sneak out the information that our scouts didn't even want the guy we picked.

And I think Dubnyk gets that the pressure is on him by now. Do we really have to keep mentioning to our favourite beat reporters that there are a bunch of other goalies we might rather have?

You know, Nugent-Hopkins doesn't even have a point the last couple of games. Maybe we should have picked Larsson? I wonder if there's any better centres out there we could have instead of him?



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 Re: Review: Detroit @ Edmonton (Game #15) [message #613110 is a reply to message #613109 ]
Mon, 04 November 2013 13:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ronster  is currently offline ronster
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Adam wrote on Mon, 04 November 2013 12:42

oobga wrote on Mon, 04 November 2013 11:50


Just a side note, Matheson is saying the Oilers will be going after Hiller this off-season "if Devan Dubnyk (also unrestricted) doesn't pan out as their No. 1". Where did he get that info I wonder. Maybe we need a list of all the players the Oilers will be targeting this year and in the off-season. A list of players we would be willing to trade in exchange because we don't like them anymore would be nice too, or if it's a UFA we get, which disappointment of a player they will replace.

http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/2013/11/03/this-n-that-edmo nton-oilers-will-hotly-pursue-jonas-hiller-as-free-agent-if- devan-dubnyk-doesnt-work-out-in-goal/


I wonder if the Oilers ever consider that throwing out things like that can hurt their player's confidence? Like seriously, who was the genius who decided to leak a year and a half after the draft that the scouting staff wanted Murray instead of Yakupov? What is the motivation for letting that slip? What does it say to Yakupov? Most teams that pick anywhere in the top five will go to their grave swearing that whoever they got is the guy they had ranked #1 in any non-Crosby year, but not the Oilers...no, we have to sneak out the information that our scouts didn't even want the guy we picked.

And I think Dubnyk gets that the pressure is on him by now. Do we really have to keep mentioning to our favourite beat reporters that there are a bunch of other goalies we might rather have?

You know, Nugent-Hopkins doesn't even have a point the last couple of games. Maybe we should have picked Larsson? I wonder if there's any better centres out there we could have instead of him?


Now now we know the Oilers brain trust wouldn't of picked Larsson...it's Landeskog they coveted. Lol.

Agree it makes no sense to show your cards all the time. Like Hiller would want to come here unless we severely overpay. That worked out well the last time.

Let the year play out with Dubnyk and assess PRIVATELY.



Adam wrote


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 Re: Review: Detroit @ Edmonton (Game #15) [message #613111 is a reply to message #613110 ]
Mon, 04 November 2013 13:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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ronster wrote on Mon, 04 November 2013 13:49

Agree it makes no sense to show your cards all the time.


Maybe this is done to demonstrate to us fans that they are NOT DITHERING, dammit!



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 Re: Review: Detroit @ Edmonton (Game #15) [message #613113 is a reply to message #613111 ]
Mon, 04 November 2013 14:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Bryan Halls Toupee wrote on Mon, 04 November 2013 13:56

ronster wrote on Mon, 04 November 2013 13:49

Agree it makes no sense to show your cards all the time.


Maybe this is done to demonstrate to us fans that they are NOT DITHERING, dammit!



Well yes, that is what they're doing, but the tail shouldn't wag the dog. This lack of confidence occurs only in those who can't handle the pressure, or those incapable of performing the tasks that need to be performed.

[Updated on: Mon, 04 November 2013 14:03]


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 Re: Review: Detroit @ Edmonton (Game #15) [message #613114 is a reply to message #613111 ]
Mon, 04 November 2013 14:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Bryan Halls Toupee wrote on Mon, 04 November 2013 13:56

ronster wrote on Mon, 04 November 2013 13:49

Agree it makes no sense to show your cards all the time.


Maybe this is done to demonstrate to us fans that they are NOT DITHERING, dammit!



I think that's exactly right. The last thing Lowe and Company want is the fans thinking they're fiddling while the team burns. But words don't help the team, and in my opinion, they often actually hurt. They show a lack of confidence in specific players, they outline strategies to other teams, they increase the asking price in trades and free agent negotiations. There's just nothing to be gained other than a little slack in the public noose from blabbing on and on about what you want to do, hope to do, would do, wish you could do, etc.

The funny thing is that they didn't use to be so stupid about this. No one even talked about the possibility of us getting Pronger before the day we grabbed him. Same with Peca, Spacek, Tarnstrom, Roloson, Samsonov...it was no secret we needed a goalie, but the Oilers in 2006 didn't go talking it up all season. They just kept playing the three we had until the day when they weren't needed any more.

If it's Katz they're worried about, then they should just report to him regularly as to what they're doing. I don't want to hear from them any more.



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 Re: Review: Detroit @ Edmonton (Game #15) [message #613115 is a reply to message #613109 ]
Mon, 04 November 2013 14:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Mon, 04 November 2013 12:42


I wonder if the Oilers ever consider that throwing out things like that can hurt their player's confidence? Like seriously, who was the genius who decided to leak a year and a half after the draft that the scouting staff wanted Murray instead of Yakupov? What is the motivation for letting that slip?


You're assuming that the Oilers have some sort of actual plan for their communication strategy. What have the Oilers done over the past 7 years that would make you think that they put any forethought into anything they do?

Could be just as likely that this is an organization that has become too comfortable with the Edmonton media and don't think to guard any of their statements when speaking with the press.



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 Re: Review: Detroit @ Edmonton (Game #15) [message #613118 is a reply to message #613115 ]
Mon, 04 November 2013 14:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Goose wrote on Mon, 04 November 2013 14:15

Adam wrote on Mon, 04 November 2013 12:42


I wonder if the Oilers ever consider that throwing out things like that can hurt their player's confidence? Like seriously, who was the genius who decided to leak a year and a half after the draft that the scouting staff wanted Murray instead of Yakupov? What is the motivation for letting that slip?


You're assuming that the Oilers have some sort of actual plan for their communication strategy. What have the Oilers done over the past 7 years that would make you think that they put any forethought into anything they do?

Could be just as likely that this is an organization that has become too comfortable with the Edmonton media and don't think to guard any of their statements when speaking with the press.


You think? I always thought the communication strategy was three-fold for these guys:

1) First and foremost, reassure everyone that no stone is left unturned. They're working really hard and it's not their fault that the players fail, and that there isn't a miracle move coming to save the season.

2) Motivate players by giving the perception of competition. Penner had his best season as an Oiler just after finding out the team traded him away (only to be rebuffed by Heatley). So it naturally follows that if you tell players that they are on thin ice by talking about all the replacements that they have tried for or could try for, that they'll also have their best seasons ever. Of course, this ignores the fact that Cogliano and Smid both struggled with the trade leak...but surely that was just coincidence. Besides, Cogliano being long gone, is probably one of the reasons for the terrible seasons we're having now!

3) To try to condition the market for a big stupid move should it happen. You leak that you never wanted Yakupov in the first place so that if you trade him, some people think that he wasn't that good anyhow. If you do move him, you later leak that it was Tambellini that pulled rank to take him over his scouting staff's objections. He becomes tainted as just another bad move by that loser lame duck GM that used to work here.



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 Re: Review: Detroit @ Edmonton (Game #15) [message #613032 is a reply to message #613029 ]
Sun, 03 November 2013 22:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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smyth260 wrote on Sun, 03 November 2013 21:49

I think you should watch the Ference interview. I didn't think it was that bad at all. Perhaps I missed something, but what I remember was he said something along the lines of that the dressing room wasn't nearly as divided as he heard. I thought for the captain of a team at literally an all time low, he kept his composure. If he said anything controversial I must have missed it.


That was my takeaway too.

I PVRed it so I could listen to Struddy's post game. Was all "can't wait to hear all the juicy details!"

When I did watch Ference on HNIC, it didn't seem as harsh as people were making it out to be, didn't understand why it was a big deal.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/after-hours-oilers-andre w-ference-on-team-s-struggles-1.2350297



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 Re: Review: Detroit @ Edmonton (Game #15) [message #613041 is a reply to message #613028 ]
Sun, 03 November 2013 23:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ronster  is currently offline ronster
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To summarize :

1. You feel blame should be laid to things in the now and present rather than in the past. Agreed but this culture has been there for years.

2. Accountability... I've been calling for the assistants heads for a while now and are a major part of the problem. But yes truly Eakins never really said he was at fault only that the system was not right for this situation. So really not taking responsibility.

3. Tactics... From getting out coached (Ironically by a former Oiler head coach on the opposite end) to not employing the right people. It's embarrassing that Arco is getting the shaft to play out of position for Gagner, who is just coming back from injury.

4. Ference... Not impressed with on ice and off ice moves. Let's face it the proof was in the pudding after the Oilers fell flat on their faces after a Players only meeting and 3 days rest. That tells me the message from the captain is not getting thru.

I'm sorry but I don't think even the inclusion of Hall will make a difference: he will try the same NHL 14 moves going 1-on-4, trying to carry the team.


The players here are paralyzed with fear...not because they are losing, it's because the league knows how much of a joke they truly are.




Adam wrote


Maybe it's fitting to have found religion in the room because on most nights this team doesn't have a prayer.

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 Re: Review: Detroit @ Edmonton (Game #15) [message #613045 is a reply to message #613041 ]
Sun, 03 November 2013 23:30 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
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Exactly. A roster full of shell shocked youth who are too stubborn to change, and don't know how to push back or deal with adversity.

Get a few lucky bounces and they ride the confidence wave to a lights out performance. But when things don't go their way or the get pushed around then the fold like cheap lawn chairs.

I like alot of what Ference has been saying and his play as a d-man has been really decent, very badly needed having an experienced guy on the blueline. But he has yet to spark anything as captain. He really needs to drop the mitts like Iggy used to, if nothing else than to set the example.



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 Re: Review: Detroit @ Edmonton (Game #15) [message #613053 is a reply to message #613045 ]
Mon, 04 November 2013 00:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bryan Halls Toupee  is currently offline Bryan Halls Toupee
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I can't help but wonder if the other players are resenting giving a newcomer the "C".


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