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 Oilers/Hemmer media spot... [message #605946]
Tue, 03 September 2013 21:40 Go to next message
messier11  is currently offline messier11
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Tsn Bob's reporting That the Oilers and Hemmer are having a presser tomorrow.

Can't seem to copy the link...

Probably just to say sorry publicly and that Hemmer is ready to paly and loves the Oilers and will be playing hard blah blah...



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 Re: Oilers/Hemmer media spot... [message #605947 is a reply to message #605946 ]
Tue, 03 September 2013 21:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm  is currently offline nullterm
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They go to shake hands, then Hemmer kicks him with the low blow, then nails him with a Stone Cold Stunner. Then he pulls off the Hemsky mask revealing himself to actually be Tambellini! Who cracks open a couple brews and gives the media the finger.

... or MacT just tells Hemsky, "Sorry bout the trade talk, cya at camp."



Illegitimi non carborundum.

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 Re: Oilers/Hemmer media spot... [message #605948 is a reply to message #605946 ]
Tue, 03 September 2013 22:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oilertime  is currently offline Oilertime
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They're naming him captain.

It would be quite hilarious.



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 Re: Oilers/Hemmer media spot... [message #605949 is a reply to message #605948 ]
Tue, 03 September 2013 22:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm  is currently offline nullterm
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Oilertime wrote on Tue, 03 September 2013 21:23

They're naming him captain.

It would be quite hilarious.


Now that would be funnier and weirder than my Stunner scenario.



Illegitimi non carborundum.

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 Re: Oilers/Hemmer media spot... [message #605955 is a reply to message #605949 ]
Wed, 04 September 2013 01:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
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nullterm wrote on Tue, 03 September 2013 22:28

Oilertime wrote on Tue, 03 September 2013 21:23

They're naming him captain.

It would be quite hilarious.


Now that would be funnier and weirder than my Stunner scenario.


That would be AMAZING. Mark Spector and Jim Matheson would blow their gaskets.



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 Re: Oilers/Hemmer media spot... [message #605961 is a reply to message #605955 ]
Wed, 04 September 2013 08:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skoobz  is currently offline Skoobz
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mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 04 September 2013 01:16

nullterm wrote on Tue, 03 September 2013 22:28

Oilertime wrote on Tue, 03 September 2013 21:23

They're naming him captain.

It would be quite hilarious.


Now that would be funnier and weirder than my Stunner scenario.


That would be AMAZING. Mark Spector and Jim Matheson would blow their gaskets.


Trolling the troller. I could live with this just to see the mainstream media meltdown.



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 Re: Oilers/Hemmer media spot... [message #605950 is a reply to message #605948 ]
Tue, 03 September 2013 22:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Teammate Avry  is currently offline Teammate Avry
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Oilertime wrote on Tue, 03 September 2013 22:23

They're naming him captain.

It would be quite hilarious.

If that actually happens.... nono



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 Re: Oilers/Hemmer media spot... [message #605954 is a reply to message #605950 ]
Wed, 04 September 2013 00:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oilerman53  is currently offline Oilerman53
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The more likely scenario if itnwere Tambelini would be a high pitched scream and then he scratches Kevin Lowe and gives MacT the bee slap. Hemmer wants to address his upcoming role, either way this is going to be one crappy presser, Hemsky has been historically one of the worst interviews in OilerLand. Sorry Tommy Salo.


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 Re: Oilers/Hemmer media spot... [message #605958 is a reply to message #605946 ]
Wed, 04 September 2013 08:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rocksteady  is currently offline Rocksteady
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If Hemsky is named captain, then I think we can safely say that the C on the oilers jersey has another meaning, that being, "next to Catapult out of town".

..I couldn't think of a C word this early in the morning



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 Re: Oilers/Hemmer media spot... [message #605967 is a reply to message #605946 ]
Wed, 04 September 2013 09:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hibernia  is currently offline Hibernia
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Hemsky's off the market!

(meaning he'll be traded by the end of the week. Isn't that how these things work? lol)



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 Re: Oilers/Hemmer media spot... [message #605972 is a reply to message #605967 ]
Wed, 04 September 2013 10:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Hibernia wrote on Wed, 04 September 2013 09:23

Hemsky's off the market!

(meaning he'll be traded by the end of the week. Isn't that how these things work? lol)


Another promise. I'd really like to see MacTavish stop promising things, but this one actually makes sense as it realizes the potential for a Luongo-type circus atmosphere and nips it in the bud. Now it will be offside for the Edmonton media to pester players on the team about when they think he'll be dealt, if they think he'll be dealt, where he'd like to be dealt to, etc. etc. etc. ad nauseum.



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 Re: Oilers/Hemmer media spot... [message #605975 is a reply to message #605972 ]
Wed, 04 September 2013 11:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Magnum  is currently offline Magnum
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Adam wrote on Wed, 04 September 2013 10:35

Hibernia wrote on Wed, 04 September 2013 09:23

Hemsky's off the market!

(meaning he'll be traded by the end of the week. Isn't that how these things work? lol)


Another promise. I'd really like to see MacTavish stop promising things, but this one actually makes sense as it realizes the potential for a Luongo-type circus atmosphere and nips it in the bud. Now it will be offside for the Edmonton media to pester players on the team about when they think he'll be dealt, if they think he'll be dealt, where he'd like to be dealt to, etc. etc. etc. ad nauseum.


He's increased team unflappability with this move.



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 Re: Oilers/Hemmer media spot... [message #605971 is a reply to message #605946 ]
Wed, 04 September 2013 10:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
MJ  is currently offline MJ
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Link to our non-story today: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=431159

Finally we get the bold move we were waiting for! icon_lol




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 Re: Oilers/Hemmer media spot... [message #605988 is a reply to message #605946 ]
Wed, 04 September 2013 19:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
shootsaverebound  is currently offline shootsaverebound
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Hemmer has been an absolute soldier for this team throughout his tenure. When we stunk, and players were looking for a way out, he wanted to stay. I know there are injury issues with him, but IMHO, he's an awesome Oiler. Until the last couple of years, Hemmer has brought me out of my chair celebrating more than any other player.... glad he's not going anywhere.

I hope he has a great year



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 Re: Oilers/Hemmer media spot... [message #605989 is a reply to message #605988 ]
Wed, 04 September 2013 19:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Magnum  is currently offline Magnum
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I hope he earns his $5,500,000 that is all I ask. If he gets 59 points, I'd consider it a successful season for him and Tambo.


Learning is the most important part of learning basic defence.

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 Re: Oilers/Hemmer media spot... [message #605990 is a reply to message #605989 ]
Wed, 04 September 2013 19:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
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Magnum wrote on Wed, 04 September 2013 19:19

I hope he earns his $5,500,000 that is all I ask. If he gets 59 points, I'd consider it a successful season for him and Tambo.


Personally, I think 59 points and $5M is high expectations if he is playing third line minutes (which is likely if Eberle and Yakupov stay healthy). Perhaps Perron moves down (unlikely), and perhaps Hemsky lights it up on the PP (likely).

Here's what I'm hoping to see: Hemsky fill the void of a solid 3RW. We haven't had a great third line in so many years. If Hemsky and Gordon can become 2/3 of a really good third line that can play tough minutes and chip in some offense, I'll be happy. That's a successful year for me, Hemsky filling that role.

If he is happy being here and wants to be a part of this team moving forward in a similar capacity, if he's willing to take a smaller contract for $2.5-3.0, that's even better. He can still be an important player for us... it just won't be in the way that it was for most of his career.



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 Re: Oilers/Hemmer media spot... [message #605991 is a reply to message #605990 ]
Wed, 04 September 2013 19:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ChasinStanley  is currently offline ChasinStanley
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He's a great insurance policy in case Yaks suffers the dreaded sophomore slump or can be used in the top 6 if anyone gets hurt, which history suggests they all will.

He is also better defensively than many give him credit for. Being on a line with a bigger guy like Gordon who will dig the puck may also help him as he likes to carry the puck and is best with guys who go to a spot and wait for the puck (94). Whenever we get creative guys to play with him they struggle to read him, give him a couple of pylons (94, 10) who go to the tough areas and all succeed. We could have a highly effective 3rd if the top 6 stay healthy.



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 Re: Oilers/Hemmer media spot... [message #606004 is a reply to message #605990 ]
Wed, 04 September 2013 22:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bryan Halls Toupee  is currently offline Bryan Halls Toupee
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I really don't get this line of thinking that 3rd line automatically equals defensive forward line playing small minutes. A team can have 3 offense forward lines and 1 defensive forward line, such as the 1990 Oilers.


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 Re: Oilers/Hemmer media spot... [message #606007 is a reply to message #606004 ]
Wed, 04 September 2013 23:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
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Bryan Halls Toupee wrote on Wed, 04 September 2013 22:54

I really don't get this line of thinking that 3rd line automatically equals defensive forward line playing small minutes. A team can have 3 offense forward lines and 1 defensive forward line, such as the 1990 Oilers.


The top players (i.e. Top-2 lines) are going to play more minutes. There's only so much ice time to go around, and a bulk of that ice time will go to Hall, RNH, Eberle, Yakupov, Perron, and Gagner. If there's an injury, Hemsky will move up and fill that role. Hemsky is great on the powerplay and will get time there I expect. So he'll get more time than, say, Ryan Jones, or Jesse Joensuu, or Ryan Smyth, I would guess/hope. But with Hemsky playing some PP minutes and Gordon playing PK minutes, my guess is they'll play less ES minutes than Hemsky is used to. The top lines will probably get closer to 20 minutes each, the third line 10 - 15 and the fourth line 5 - 10.

Here's the thing: your third line shouldn't strictly be defense... if it is, you're in trouble because it means you lack depth. But they should be dependable defensively and be able to tilt the ice positively. If a team on the road is trying to move away from a head-to-head power match, it's nice to have guys who can handle that responsibility when you don't get the matchup you want. It's why I think Hemsky could be an effective third liner... he'll chip in points, but he's no slouch defensively and can work well with a guy like Horcoff or Gordon.

As for the fourth line, it just kind of feels like the island of misfit toys. We'll see what ends up coming out of that mess at the bottom of the lineup.



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 Re: Oilers/Hemmer media spot... [message #606010 is a reply to message #606007 ]
Wed, 04 September 2013 23:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 04 September 2013 23:18

Bryan Halls Toupee wrote on Wed, 04 September 2013 22:54

I really don't get this line of thinking that 3rd line automatically equals defensive forward line playing small minutes. A team can have 3 offense forward lines and 1 defensive forward line, such as the 1990 Oilers.


The top players (i.e. Top-2 lines) are going to play more minutes. There's only so much ice time to go around, and a bulk of that ice time will go to Hall, RNH, Eberle, Yakupov, Perron, and Gagner. If there's an injury, Hemsky will move up and fill that role. Hemsky is great on the powerplay and will get time there I expect. So he'll get more time than, say, Ryan Jones, or Jesse Joensuu, or Ryan Smyth, I would guess/hope. But with Hemsky playing some PP minutes and Gordon playing PK minutes, my guess is they'll play less ES minutes than Hemsky is used to. The top lines will probably get closer to 20 minutes each, the third line 10 - 15 and the fourth line 5 - 10.

Here's the thing: your third line shouldn't strictly be defense... if it is, you're in trouble because it means you lack depth. But they should be dependable defensively and be able to tilt the ice positively. If a team on the road is trying to move away from a head-to-head power match, it's nice to have guys who can handle that responsibility when you don't get the matchup you want. It's why I think Hemsky could be an effective third liner... he'll chip in points, but he's no slouch defensively and can work well with a guy like Horcoff or Gordon.

As for the fourth line, it just kind of feels like the island of misfit toys. We'll see what ends up coming out of that mess at the bottom of the lineup.


I don't know. Our fourth line is pretty weak. If I have, say, 48 minutes of even strength hockey in a game, I'm not really dividing it four ways. I'm probably going to play my top three about equal and then ride my top guys on the PP. Personally, I don't mind playing top guys on the PK too, but I worry about that a bit in a block-happy system like the Oilers like to play. Too much danger of injury.

Still, you could easily get a third line playing 13-14 minutes of even strength a night with the top offensive guys playing on the PP (assuming that you're not using 4 d-men on the PP units and the defensive third liners getting a lot of PK time.



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 Re: Oilers/Hemmer media spot... [message #606038 is a reply to message #606007 ]
Thu, 05 September 2013 11:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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http://oilersnation.com/2013/9/4/hemmer-2

Really good article from Lowetide here.

Interesting that Hemsky was actually our second best PP guy in PPP/60 last year. Considering the offensive talent on the team, that speaks volumes.



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 Re: Oilers/Hemmer media spot... [message #606052 is a reply to message #606038 ]
Thu, 05 September 2013 12:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
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Adam wrote on Thu, 05 September 2013 11:48

http://oilersnation.com/2013/9/4/hemmer-2

Really good article from Lowetide here.

Interesting that Hemsky was actually our second best PP guy in PPP/60 last year. Considering the offensive talent on the team, that speaks volumes.


What surprises me is the likes/dislikes ratio in the comments section. I'm not generally looking there for deep hockey insight, but it's stunning actually how pro-Hemsky it is. It's nice to see actually.

Makes me wonder how much of the narrative is just Mark Spector, Robin Brownlee, Jim Matheson, and a few others that have bullhorns and are just closing their eyes, covering their ears, and yelling loudly and continuously.



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 Re: Oilers/Hemmer media spot... [message #606008 is a reply to message #606004 ]
Wed, 04 September 2013 23:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm  is currently offline nullterm
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Bryan Halls Toupee wrote on Wed, 04 September 2013 21:54

I really don't get this line of thinking that 3rd line automatically equals defensive forward line playing small minutes. A team can have 3 offense forward lines and 1 defensive forward line, such as the 1990 Oilers.


Or Hemsky is the offensive threat with two checkers. Hemsky is at his most dangerous getting the puck with alot of open ice to the goal. Have your grit guys just get the puck to 83 and let him work his magic.

Having offensive pop on the third means the guys they face have to be more conservative or risk giving Hemsky a breakaway.

For the record, I think it would be short sighted to peg Hemsky as the 3rd line RW. I think he'll be in the top six mix throughout the season. It will just be a matter of who has the best chemistry with him. If he catches fire with Perron, Gordon, Gags, or the Fab Five then that will be who he plays with.



Illegitimi non carborundum.

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 Re: Oilers/Hemmer media spot... [message #605992 is a reply to message #605988 ]
Wed, 04 September 2013 19:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hmc  is currently offline hmc
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shootsaverebound wrote on Wed, 04 September 2013 21:10

Hemmer has been an absolute soldier for this team throughout his tenure. When we stunk, and players were looking for a way out, he wanted to stay. I know there are injury issues with him, but IMHO, he's an awesome Oiler. Until the last couple of years, Hemmer has brought me out of my chair celebrating more than any other player.... glad he's not going anywhere.

I hope he has a great year


Agreed. Hemsky is a pretty good litmus test for evidence of a well informed fan. Saying that "Hemsky isn't tough" or pretending that Hemsky being first off the ice in practice means something (he's normally first off to get treatment for his multiple shoulder injuries from constantly going against guys like Regehr) pretty well tells me you don't know what you're talking about.

Watch the games indeed.



Then I'll just regress, because I feel I've made myself perfectly redundant.

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 Re: Oilers/Hemmer media spot... [message #606042 is a reply to message #605992 ]
Thu, 05 September 2013 12:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Magnum  is currently offline Magnum
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hmc wrote on Wed, 04 September 2013 19:39

shootsaverebound wrote on Wed, 04 September 2013 21:10

Hemmer has been an absolute soldier for this team throughout his tenure. When we stunk, and players were looking for a way out, he wanted to stay. I know there are injury issues with him, but IMHO, he's an awesome Oiler. Until the last couple of years, Hemmer has brought me out of my chair celebrating more than any other player.... glad he's not going anywhere.

I hope he has a great year


Agreed. Hemsky is a pretty good litmus test for evidence of a well informed fan. Saying that "Hemsky isn't tough" or pretending that Hemsky being first off the ice in practice means something (he's normally first off to get treatment for his multiple shoulder injuries from constantly going against guys like Regehr) pretty well tells me you don't know what you're talking about.

Watch the games indeed.


You need to temper that litmus test a bit. A lot of people don't like him for a numbers of "hard stat" reasons. The first being that he's commonly injured, the second is that he can't hit.

Also, people over-argue Hemsky's sucky points because there are a lot of overzealous Hemsky boosters (where have we seen this before?).

I'd also caution against undervaluing attitude, not that Hemsky has a bad one, but attitude is important in a team sport.

Also to consider is his assist to goal ratio, I worry about this, because, although playmaking is important, it's more common than scoring ability, so there is a bit less value for players with fewer assists... depending on the quality of assist.

Either way, I'm quite happy that Hemsky didn't go for anything less than his value. At one point I thought he was worth Kopitar, probably not now, but not too far off, so if there wasn't something just under Kopitar value, it's a good thing Hemsky's staying, because the team is better off with him.

Good job MacT



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 Re: Oilers/Hemmer media spot... [message #606046 is a reply to message #606042 ]
Thu, 05 September 2013 12:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hmc  is currently offline hmc
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Magnum wrote on Thu, 05 September 2013 14:15

You need to temper that litmus test a bit. A lot of people don't like him for a numbers of "hard stat" reasons. The first being that he's commonly injured, the second is that he can't hit.

Also, people over-argue Hemsky's sucky points because there are a lot of overzealous Hemsky boosters (where have we seen this before?).

I'd also caution against undervaluing attitude, not that Hemsky has a bad one, but attitude is important in a team sport.

Also to consider is his assist to goal ratio, I worry about this, because, although playmaking is important, it's more common than scoring ability, so there is a bit less value for players with fewer assists... depending on the quality of assist.

Either way, I'm quite happy that Hemsky didn't go for anything less than his value. At one point I thought he was worth Kopitar, probably not now, but not too far off, so if there wasn't something just under Kopitar value, it's a good thing Hemsky's staying, because the team is better off with him.

Good job MacT


I'm pretty comfortable with my test.



Then I'll just regress, because I feel I've made myself perfectly redundant.

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 Re: Oilers/Hemmer media spot... [message #606048 is a reply to message #606046 ]
Thu, 05 September 2013 12:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Magnum  is currently offline Magnum
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hmc wrote on Thu, 05 September 2013 12:31

Magnum wrote on Thu, 05 September 2013 14:15

You need to temper that litmus test a bit. A lot of people don't like him for a numbers of "hard stat" reasons. The first being that he's commonly injured, the second is that he can't hit.

Also, people over-argue Hemsky's sucky points because there are a lot of overzealous Hemsky boosters (where have we seen this before?).

I'd also caution against undervaluing attitude, not that Hemsky has a bad one, but attitude is important in a team sport.

Also to consider is his assist to goal ratio, I worry about this, because, although playmaking is important, it's more common than scoring ability, so there is a bit less value for players with fewer assists... depending on the quality of assist.

Either way, I'm quite happy that Hemsky didn't go for anything less than his value. At one point I thought he was worth Kopitar, probably not now, but not too far off, so if there wasn't something just under Kopitar value, it's a good thing Hemsky's staying, because the team is better off with him.

Good job MacT


I'm pretty comfortable with my test.



Overzealous Hemky booster it is then.



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 Re: Oilers/Hemmer media spot... [message #606050 is a reply to message #606048 ]
Thu, 05 September 2013 12:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hmc  is currently offline hmc
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Magnum wrote on Thu, 05 September 2013 14:34

Overzealous Hemky booster it is then.


I prefer to just ignore the stupid media driven narratives about "attitude", and then when it comes to him not being "tough" or "gritty", I refer to the games that he plays in, which I watch.

I have no idea why anyone would care about a player's goals to assists ratio.



Then I'll just regress, because I feel I've made myself perfectly redundant.

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 Re: Oilers/Hemmer media spot... [message #606051 is a reply to message #606050 ]
Thu, 05 September 2013 12:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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hmc wrote on Thu, 05 September 2013 12:37

Magnum wrote on Thu, 05 September 2013 14:34

Overzealous Hemky booster it is then.


I prefer to just ignore the stupid media driven narratives about "attitude", and then when it comes to him not being "tough" or "gritty", I refer to the games that he plays in, which I watch.

I have no idea why anyone would care about a player's goals to assists ratio.


Adam Oates was clearly an inferior player. All he did is set up goals! You know who else sucks? Joe Thornton.

And I do question how anyone who has watched Hemsky play in the toughest areas of the ice, taking huge hits to make plays can suggest he's not gritty. He also gives back better than he's given credit for.



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 Re: Oilers/Hemmer media spot... [message #606053 is a reply to message #606051 ]
Thu, 05 September 2013 12:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Magnum  is currently offline Magnum
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Adam wrote on Thu, 05 September 2013 12:40

hmc wrote on Thu, 05 September 2013 12:37

Magnum wrote on Thu, 05 September 2013 14:34

Overzealous Hemky booster it is then.


I prefer to just ignore the stupid media driven narratives about "attitude", and then when it comes to him not being "tough" or "gritty", I refer to the games that he plays in, which I watch.

I have no idea why anyone would care about a player's goals to assists ratio.


Adam Oates was clearly an inferior player. All he did is set up goals! You know who else sucks? Joe Thornton.

And I do question how anyone who has watched Hemsky play in the toughest areas of the ice, taking huge hits to make plays can suggest he's not gritty. He also gives back better than he's given credit for.


I don't think I mentioned anything about inferior play, just that goals are inferior to assists. Which is true, on the fact alone that there are two assists for every goal.

I don't buy the Hemsky narratives either, I do watch the games, and notice him not being in a lot of them.

Games played since his first established season, 75% of all potential games (467/622)

Games played in the past five years, 66% of all potential games (248/376)


[Updated on: Thu, 05 September 2013 15:11]


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 Re: Oilers/Hemmer media spot... [message #606069 is a reply to message #606053 ]
Thu, 05 September 2013 17:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nitty_Gritty_Smytty  is currently offline Nitty_Gritty_Smytty
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I'll give Hemsky credit for going to the tough areas, however if he was truly tough he would come out unscathed instead of injured more often than not.


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 Re: Oilers/Hemmer media spot... [message #606072 is a reply to message #606069 ]
Thu, 05 September 2013 17:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Nitty_Gritty_Smytty wrote on Thu, 05 September 2013 16:08

I'll give Hemsky credit for going to the tough areas, however if he was truly tough he would come out unscathed instead of injured more often than not.


He's tough for what he does, just not durable.

Maybe fearless is more accurate.



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 Re: Oilers/Hemmer media spot... [message #606073 is a reply to message #606069 ]
Thu, 05 September 2013 17:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Nitty_Gritty_Smytty wrote on Thu, 05 September 2013 17:08

I'll give Hemsky credit for going to the tough areas, however if he was truly tough he would come out unscathed instead of injured more often than not.


Yeah, injuries are the real benchmark for toughness.

Hemsky getting hurt lumps him in with those so many other notable non-tough players like Cam Neely, Bobby Orr, Todd Bertuzzi, Mike Bossy, Wendel Clark, Eric Lindros.



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 Re: Oilers/Hemmer media spot... [message #606078 is a reply to message #606073 ]
Thu, 05 September 2013 17:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Thu, 05 September 2013 17:14

Nitty_Gritty_Smytty wrote on Thu, 05 September 2013 17:08

I'll give Hemsky credit for going to the tough areas, however if he was truly tough he would come out unscathed instead of injured more often than not.


Yeah, injuries are the real benchmark for toughness.

Hemsky getting hurt lumps him in with those so many other notable non-tough players like Cam Neely, Bobby Orr, Todd Bertuzzi, Mike Bossy, Wendel Clark, Eric Lindros.


Yes, durability does factor into how tough you are. If I go into the back alley to fight the big bad bully on the block, ie. Robyn Regehr and I come out with a broken nose and my shoulder popped out does that make me tough or fearless?



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 Re: Oilers/Hemmer media spot... [message #606082 is a reply to message #606078 ]
Thu, 05 September 2013 17:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Nitty_Gritty_Smytty wrote on Thu, 05 September 2013 17:34

Adam wrote on Thu, 05 September 2013 17:14

Nitty_Gritty_Smytty wrote on Thu, 05 September 2013 17:08

I'll give Hemsky credit for going to the tough areas, however if he was truly tough he would come out unscathed instead of injured more often than not.


Yeah, injuries are the real benchmark for toughness.

Hemsky getting hurt lumps him in with those so many other notable non-tough players like Cam Neely, Bobby Orr, Todd Bertuzzi, Mike Bossy, Wendel Clark, Eric Lindros.


Yes, durability does factor into how tough you are. If I go into the back alley to fight the big bad bully on the block, ie. Robyn Regehr and I come out with a broken nose and my shoulder popped out does that make me tough or fearless?


So in short, Cam Neely wasn't tough? He never played a full NHL season and in his last five NHL seasons never managed to get to 50 games even.



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 Re: Oilers/Hemmer media spot... [message #606086 is a reply to message #606082 ]
Thu, 05 September 2013 18:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Magnum  is currently offline Magnum
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Adam wrote on Thu, 05 September 2013 17:57

Nitty_Gritty_Smytty wrote on Thu, 05 September 2013 17:34

Adam wrote on Thu, 05 September 2013 17:14

Nitty_Gritty_Smytty wrote on Thu, 05 September 2013 17:08

I'll give Hemsky credit for going to the tough areas, however if he was truly tough he would come out unscathed instead of injured more often than not.


Yeah, injuries are the real benchmark for toughness.

Hemsky getting hurt lumps him in with those so many other notable non-tough players like Cam Neely, Bobby Orr, Todd Bertuzzi, Mike Bossy, Wendel Clark, Eric Lindros.


Yes, durability does factor into how tough you are. If I go into the back alley to fight the big bad bully on the block, ie. Robyn Regehr and I come out with a broken nose and my shoulder popped out does that make me tough or fearless?


So in short, Cam Neely wasn't tough? He never played a full NHL season and in his last five NHL seasons never managed to get to 50 games even.


Come on Adam, Hemsky does not play like Cam Neely.



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 Re: Oilers/Hemmer media spot... [message #606088 is a reply to message #606086 ]
Thu, 05 September 2013 18:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Magnum wrote on Thu, 05 September 2013 18:27

Adam wrote on Thu, 05 September 2013 17:57

Nitty_Gritty_Smytty wrote on Thu, 05 September 2013 17:34

Adam wrote on Thu, 05 September 2013 17:14

Nitty_Gritty_Smytty wrote on Thu, 05 September 2013 17:08

I'll give Hemsky credit for going to the tough areas, however if he was truly tough he would come out unscathed instead of injured more often than not.


Yeah, injuries are the real benchmark for toughness.

Hemsky getting hurt lumps him in with those so many other notable non-tough players like Cam Neely, Bobby Orr, Todd Bertuzzi, Mike Bossy, Wendel Clark, Eric Lindros.


Yes, durability does factor into how tough you are. If I go into the back alley to fight the big bad bully on the block, ie. Robyn Regehr and I come out with a broken nose and my shoulder popped out does that make me tough or fearless?


So in short, Cam Neely wasn't tough? He never played a full NHL season and in his last five NHL seasons never managed to get to 50 games even.


Come on Adam, Hemsky does not play like Cam Neely.


That's not what is being argued. The statement was made that the if a player is truly tough, he doesn't get injured by going to the tough areas.

Guys like Lindros, Clark and Neely all drove to the tough areas and all got injured multiple times contributing to the end of her careers.



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 Re: Oilers/Hemmer media spot... [message #606093 is a reply to message #606088 ]
Fri, 06 September 2013 07:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Thu, 05 September 2013 20:34

That's not what is being argued. The statement was made that the if a player is truly tough, he doesn't get injured by going to the tough areas.

Guys like Lindros, Clark and Neely all drove to the tough areas and all got injured multiple times contributing to the end of her careers.


Playing around with semantics like this is what makes conventional hockey speak so stupid in the first place. And apparently playing through injuries doesn't make one tough. Just not getting them in the first place does, I guess.



Then I'll just regress, because I feel I've made myself perfectly redundant.

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 Re: Oilers/Hemmer media spot... [message #606095 is a reply to message #606093 ]
Fri, 06 September 2013 08:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Magnum  is currently offline Magnum
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hmc wrote on Fri, 06 September 2013 07:26

Adam wrote on Thu, 05 September 2013 20:34

That's not what is being argued. The statement was made that the if a player is truly tough, he doesn't get injured by going to the tough areas.

Guys like Lindros, Clark and Neely all drove to the tough areas and all got injured multiple times contributing to the end of her careers.


Playing around with semantics like this is what makes conventional hockey speak so stupid in the first place. And apparently playing through injuries doesn't make one tough. Just not getting them in the first place does, I guess.



Ignoring the points being made and making diversionary points like the Cam Neely point is far worse, and more frustrating.

Getting your @$$ kicked is not part of being tough. Which is essentially what happens to Hemsky when he gets hit.

You can get injured and still be tough, as easily evident in sports like MMA, boxing etc.

Generally what makes a person tough is the capacity to dominate based on strength, to be durable, willing to take punishment, and capable for dealing it.

If a player excels in one of the above listed areas, they are often, but not always, considered tough.

It seems like you and Adam want to re-write the book on the definition of "tough". Maybe you're just getting caught up in the idea that because someone says player X isn't tough, they also mean that player X is not good. That's simply not the case. Zach Stortini was tough, but no one in their right mind would select Stortini over Hemsky.

Maybe tenacity, willpower, or any other adjectives that commonly accompany perseverance would better suit your desired description. Tough minded maybe, but Hemsky's not tough in the common sense of the word. Neither was Gretzky, I don't think he's crying over his lack of toughness.

As to playing through injuries, that depends on how you play through injuries. The quintessential tough Oiler Gator Smith played through injuries and did toughy stuff while doing so, as a result he gets a tough point. Hemsky plays through injuries (which is more dumb than tough) and doesn't do any tough stuff, and often gets injured again, no tough point there.

[Updated on: Fri, 06 September 2013 09:41]


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 Re: Oilers/Hemmer media spot... [message #606103 is a reply to message #606095 ]
Fri, 06 September 2013 10:55 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Magnum wrote on Fri, 06 September 2013 08:55

hmc wrote on Fri, 06 September 2013 07:26

Adam wrote on Thu, 05 September 2013 20:34

That's not what is being argued. The statement was made that the if a player is truly tough, he doesn't get injured by going to the tough areas.

Guys like Lindros, Clark and Neely all drove to the tough areas and all got injured multiple times contributing to the end of her careers.


Playing around with semantics like this is what makes conventional hockey speak so stupid in the first place. And apparently playing through injuries doesn't make one tough. Just not getting them in the first place does, I guess.



Ignoring the points being made and making diversionary points like the Cam Neely point is far worse, and more frustrating.

Getting your @$$ kicked is not part of being tough. Which is essentially what happens to Hemsky when he gets hit.

You can get injured and still be tough, as easily evident in sports like MMA, boxing etc.

Generally what makes a person tough is the capacity to dominate based on strength, to be durable, willing to take punishment, and capable for dealing it.

If a player excels in one of the above listed areas, they are often, but not always, considered tough.

It seems like you and Adam want to re-write the book on the definition of "tough". Maybe you're just getting caught up in the idea that because someone says player X isn't tough, they also mean that player X is not good. That's simply not the case. Zach Stortini was tough, but no one in their right mind would select Stortini over Hemsky.

Maybe tenacity, willpower, or any other adjectives that commonly accompany perseverance would better suit your desired description. Tough minded maybe, but Hemsky's not tough in the common sense of the word. Neither was Gretzky, I don't think he's crying over his lack of toughness.

As to playing through injuries, that depends on how you play through injuries. The quintessential tough Oiler Gator Smith played through injuries and did toughy stuff while doing so, as a result he gets a tough point. Hemsky plays through injuries (which is more dumb than tough) and doesn't do any tough stuff, and often gets injured again, no tough point there.




I think you're the one who's been diversionary here. I took a direct statement from a poster (not you) and asked him to explain that statement and how by extension that statement would relate to several other NHLers generally considered to be "tough" who also were prone to injury - some much more so than Ales Hemsky.

As for why that's even an argument, it's because many of Hemsky's critics like to call him "soft" - being the opposite of tough. I would guess that you would agree that Hemsky is not soft from many of the things you've said in this thread. He's not a shrinking violet who other teams can negate simply by putting a hit on him at the start of the game. Rather he'll continue to drive to the danger zones at his own peril.

So unless you are defending the argument that getting hurt makes you either soft or not tough, you're not really arguing against me in this, just ranting about Cam Neely - who I've never compared to Hemsky in any way other than to point out he had injury issues as well.



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