This day on April 16
Acquired: Ty Conklin (2001)

Happy Birthday To: Ryno, Rifle, tollen, oiler-dude, oiler4life, Big T, MikeHawk, ryanbatty, jtb36, retirealreadymikekeane

F.A.Q. Terms of Use F.A.Q. F.A.Q.
Members Members   Search Search     Register Register   Login Login   Home Home
 Speculation » Pending UFAs 2012Pages (3): [ «  <  1  2  3  >  »]
Switch to flat viewSwitch to tree viewCreate a new topicSubmit Reply
 Re: Pending UFAs 2012 [message #576047 is a reply to message #576025 ]
Mon, 25 June 2012 22:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Team Dean  is currently offline Team Dean
Messages: 1578
Registered: April 2010
Location: Central Alberta

1 Cup

Umm, I thought Wolski turned into a bust? Am I mistaken? I still think they won that deal, just by getting rid of Wolski? Am I way off base?

I'd take a flyer on Mueller, if his head healed up and we had to trade away Gags or MP, we could bring him on as a cheap replacement on a one year trial like Barker?



Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Pending UFAs 2012 [message #576104 is a reply to message #576047 ]
Tue, 26 June 2012 12:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
TeemaJeema  is currently offline TeemaJeema
Messages: 276
Registered: March 2011
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

Team Dean wrote on Mon, 25 June 2012 22:47

Umm, I thought Wolski turned into a bust? Am I mistaken? I still think they won that deal, just by getting rid of Wolski? Am I way off base?

I'd take a flyer on Mueller, if his head healed up and we had to trade away Gags or MP, we could bring him on as a cheap replacement on a one year trial like Barker?


Judging by Wolski's stats before he was traded Id say no. It was a career year for him, having 47 points in 62 games and was +15 and went on to be a PPG player for Phoenix the remainder of that season.

Now judging since then, Wolski has been a border line NHLer.



Oiler Fan For Life.

v4ance wrote on Tue, 06 August 2013 in response to rjayd2

If Adam was a GM, he'd be Ken Holland to your Mike Milbury

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Pending UFAs 2012 [message #576136 is a reply to message #576025 ]
Tue, 26 June 2012 14:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 9607
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

v4ance wrote on Mon, 25 June 2012 17:57

Mike wrote on Mon, 25 June 2012 17:22

v4ance wrote on Mon, 25 June 2012 19:49

http://blogs.denverpost.com/avs/2012/06/25/peter-mueller-qua lifying-offer/10891/

Peter Mueller, the #8 overall pick from 2006 was not tendered a QO and will be a UFA on July 1.


Wow. That's a gamble I would definitely be willing to take. 54 points as a rookie, then some prety crappy luck, and then 20 points in his first 15 games with the Avs...

I'm a sucker for projects though - probably a good thing I'm not a GM, but wouldn't mind at all if we signed him for a year or 2 in place of someone like Smyth (he's listed as a C, but plays wing)



From Hockeydb.com: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=71741


Wojtek Wolski: 2010-Mar-03 Traded from Colorado Avalanche to Phoenix Coyotes for Kevin Porter and Peter Mueller


The other bit of news in the link that I posted was that Kevin Porter was also not tendered a QO making him a UFA as well. So Colorado traded Wolski and has nothing in return after 2 years.


Didn't Wolski also make the list of RFAs-turned-UFAs this week after not being qualified?

And on a little searching, that's true:

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2012-06-25/sports/fl-florid a-panthers-0626-20120625-12_1_dmitry-kulikov-roman-derlyuk-j ason-garrison

So everyone involved in that deal is now officially a bust!



#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireEakins #FireActon #FireSmith #FireBuchberger #FireMoores #Burnitdown #KeepJoey

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Pending UFAs 2012 [message #576098 is a reply to message #572265 ]
Tue, 26 June 2012 12:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
v4ance  is currently offline v4ance
Messages: 2582
Registered: July 2008
Location: Calgary

2 Cups

via Twitter:

The Goalie Guild ‏@TheGoalieGuild

#Sharks qualify Alex Stalock, but do not qualify Tyson Sexsmith, making him an UFA on July 1. They're still overloaded w/ goalies.

I'd take a flyer on Sexsmith. Even if he's AHL depth goalie, he could be good competition for Roy or Bunz and push them to be better.



Jordan Eberle on his goal scoring: "A lot of guys joke that I have a muffin. Well, it's an accurate muffin, and that's all that counts."

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Pending UFAs 2012 [message #576215 is a reply to message #576098 ]
Tue, 26 June 2012 23:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nitty_Gritty_Smytty  is currently offline Nitty_Gritty_Smytty
Messages: 568
Registered: July 2006
Location: City Of Champions

No Cups

v4ance wrote on Tue, 26 June 2012 12:01

via Twitter:

The Goalie Guild ‏@TheGoalieGuild

#Sharks qualify Alex Stalock, but do not qualify Tyson Sexsmith, making him an UFA on July 1. They're still overloaded w/ goalies.

I'd take a flyer on Sexsmith. Even if he's AHL depth goalie, he could be good competition for Roy or Bunz and push them to be better.


I remember watching this kid play Midget AAA back in the day for the UFA Bisons and he was absolutely lights out and went on to set a single season record for shutouts in the Dub with 22.

Think he would be a great goalie for the Barons to consider.



"Oil is thicker than blood." - The Great One #99

"I'm gonna go there, do my best to make the playoffs and win that cup...so I can bring it down here to Edmonton...because that's where my heart is." - Ryan Smyth #94

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Pending UFAs 2012 [message #576137 is a reply to message #572265 ]
Tue, 26 June 2012 14:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
v4ance  is currently offline v4ance
Messages: 2582
Registered: July 2008
Location: Calgary

2 Cups

via Twitter:

Dave Isaac ‏@davegisaac

RT @walsha: PA Parenteau will become an unrestricted free agent on July 1.



Jordan Eberle on his goal scoring: "A lot of guys joke that I have a muffin. Well, it's an accurate muffin, and that's all that counts."

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Pending UFAs 2012 [message #576140 is a reply to message #576137 ]
Tue, 26 June 2012 14:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Team Dean  is currently offline Team Dean
Messages: 1578
Registered: April 2010
Location: Central Alberta

1 Cup

That's too bad, if this was 2007, we'd be chasing PA Parentau and Wolski and Mueller like there was no tomorrow. In 2012, not so much. We are overloaded in the top 6 with gold players. The key word this year is puck moving dman.
That's what we need, and what do you know, there's precious few available. Just our luck.
Stauffer rumour alert: Paul Martin. Pens may be shopping him.



Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Pending UFAs 2012 [message #576142 is a reply to message #576140 ]
Tue, 26 June 2012 14:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lowebudget  is currently offline lowebudget
Messages: 261
Registered: October 2004

No Cups

The Oilers have a luxury in the sense that whomever they choose to add to our D has to have a ceiling higher than that of Cam Barker. Should be a piece of cake.


Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Pending UFAs 2012 [message #576148 is a reply to message #576137 ]
Tue, 26 June 2012 15:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hmc  is currently offline hmc
Messages: 4059
Registered: May 2008
Location: Toronto

4 Cups

v4ance wrote on Tue, 26 June 2012 16:08

via Twitter:

Dave Isaac ‏@davegisaac

RT @walsha: PA Parenteau will become an unrestricted free agent on July 1.


We should be all over Parenteau. Tough minutes, positive possession numbers, 67 points last year, will be tough to convince him to be a third line guy probably though. He'll get a lot of money on July 1st.



Then I'll just regress, because I feel I've made myself perfectly redundant.

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Pending UFAs 2012 [message #576327 is a reply to message #576148 ]
Wed, 27 June 2012 14:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
v4ance  is currently offline v4ance
Messages: 2582
Registered: July 2008
Location: Calgary

2 Cups

hmc wrote on Tue, 26 June 2012 15:28

v4ance wrote on Tue, 26 June 2012 16:08

via Twitter:

Dave Isaac ‏@davegisaac

RT @walsha: PA Parenteau will become an unrestricted free agent on July 1.


We should be all over Parenteau. Tough minutes, positive possession numbers, 67 points last year, will be tough to convince him to be a third line guy probably though. He'll get a lot of money on July 1st.



via twitter:

Wayne Scanlan ‏@HockeyScanner

Pete Dorion's message on PA Parenteau: IF he were to be available on July 1 and IF the price is right, the Sens would have interest.



Jordan Eberle on his goal scoring: "A lot of guys joke that I have a muffin. Well, it's an accurate muffin, and that's all that counts."

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Pending UFAs 2012 [message #576169 is a reply to message #572265 ]
Tue, 26 June 2012 18:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm  is currently offline nullterm
Messages: 7466
Registered: July 2007
Location: Port Moody, BC

6 Cups

Shane Doan sounds like he will be a UFA. Yes, please.


Illegitimi non carborundum.

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Pending UFAs 2012 [message #576178 is a reply to message #576169 ]
Tue, 26 June 2012 19:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skoobz  is currently offline Skoobz
Messages: 2164
Registered: January 2006
Location: Section 223

2 Cups

nullterm wrote on Tue, 26 June 2012 18:05

Shane Doan sounds like he will be a UFA. Yes, please.


That'd be a lot of money for a 3LW... Just sayin'... (although he'd be a great guy to have around...)



"I'm not reading Skoobz' banter." - NotLeeFogolin
The 2013-14 Edmonton Oilers... Breaking Ekblad

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Pending UFAs 2012 [message #576183 is a reply to message #576178 ]
Tue, 26 June 2012 19:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm  is currently offline nullterm
Messages: 7466
Registered: July 2007
Location: Port Moody, BC

6 Cups

Skoobz wrote on Tue, 26 June 2012 18:17

nullterm wrote on Tue, 26 June 2012 18:05

Shane Doan sounds like he will be a UFA. Yes, please.


That'd be a lot of money for a 3LW... Just sayin'... (although he'd be a great guy to have around...)


I'm more interested in the guy than the position. But potentially he's a 2LW, depending on how things shake out.

Yakupov is likely starting on the 3rd or 4th lines, moving up as he gets used to the NHL.

Hall potentially playing as center.

Harti and Paajarvi would be behind Hall and Doan.

Hall-RNH-Eberle
Doan-Gagner-Hemsky
PRV/Harti-Horcoff-Yakupov
Harti/PRV-Belanger-Petrell
Lander

Sorry Smytty, you had your chance to sign the contract for months.



Illegitimi non carborundum.

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Pending UFAs 2012 [message #576197 is a reply to message #576178 ]
Tue, 26 June 2012 21:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
v4ance  is currently offline v4ance
Messages: 2582
Registered: July 2008
Location: Calgary

2 Cups

Skoobz wrote on Tue, 26 June 2012 19:17

nullterm wrote on Tue, 26 June 2012 18:05

Shane Doan sounds like he will be a UFA. Yes, please.


That'd be a lot of money for a 3LW... Just sayin'... (although he'd be a great guy to have around...)



I like Doan but I have this funny feeling Detroit will brainwash him into joining the Wings.



Jordan Eberle on his goal scoring: "A lot of guys joke that I have a muffin. Well, it's an accurate muffin, and that's all that counts."

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Pending UFAs 2012 [message #576451 is a reply to message #576197 ]
Thu, 28 June 2012 09:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
v4ance  is currently offline v4ance
Messages: 2582
Registered: July 2008
Location: Calgary

2 Cups

v4ance wrote on Tue, 26 June 2012 21:16

Skoobz wrote on Tue, 26 June 2012 19:17

nullterm wrote on Tue, 26 June 2012 18:05

Shane Doan sounds like he will be a UFA. Yes, please.


That'd be a lot of money for a 3LW... Just sayin'... (although he'd be a great guy to have around...)



I like Doan but I have this funny feeling Detroit will brainwash him into joining the Wings.




Confirmation of interest from Detroit writer:

Detroit Free Press ‏@freepwings

Helene St. James: Shane Doan would be great addition for Red Wings http://on.freep.com/MCUCNo via @freep



Jordan Eberle on his goal scoring: "A lot of guys joke that I have a muffin. Well, it's an accurate muffin, and that's all that counts."

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Pending UFAs 2012 [message #578057 is a reply to message #576451 ]
Mon, 09 July 2012 19:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
v4ance  is currently offline v4ance
Messages: 2582
Registered: July 2008
Location: Calgary

2 Cups

v4ance wrote on Thu, 28 June 2012 09:41

v4ance wrote on Tue, 26 June 2012 21:16

Skoobz wrote on Tue, 26 June 2012 19:17

nullterm wrote on Tue, 26 June 2012 18:05

Shane Doan sounds like he will be a UFA. Yes, please.


That'd be a lot of money for a 3LW... Just sayin'... (although he'd be a great guy to have around...)



I like Doan but I have this funny feeling Detroit will brainwash him into joining the Wings.




Confirmation of interest from Detroit writer:

Detroit Free Press ‏@freepwings

Helene St. James: Shane Doan would be great addition for Red Wings http://on.freep.com/MCUCNo via @freep



via Twitter:


Sarah McLellan ‏@azc_mclellan

"Only 2-3 teams would warrant serious interest on Doan's part, Bross said. Location, management/players and Cup chances are all factors.

Based on tweets from @pgshelly, @reallisa and @HeleneStJames, those three teams could be Pittsburgh, LA and Detroit.
"



I'll change my vote now to Pittsburgh as the final destination for Doan. If Detroit had been able to successfully recruit Parise or Suter, I think they would have convinced Doan to join them for the best chance at a cup.

With Detroit losing those "auctions", I believe Doan will see the best chance to win NOW will be in Pittsburgh on a scoring line with Crosby or on a checking line with Sutter.



Jordan Eberle on his goal scoring: "A lot of guys joke that I have a muffin. Well, it's an accurate muffin, and that's all that counts."

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Pending UFAs 2012 [message #578058 is a reply to message #578057 ]
Mon, 09 July 2012 19:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm  is currently offline nullterm
Messages: 7466
Registered: July 2007
Location: Port Moody, BC

6 Cups

I'll be cool with Doan going anywhere. Nice to see him go on a Cup run with a contender. Or come home to Edmonton would be even better selfishly for me/us.

But if he goes to the Canucks, he's dead to me, as is all respect I ever had for him. Hopefully he's a better person than that group, I have faith in that.



Illegitimi non carborundum.

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Pending UFAs 2012 [message #578060 is a reply to message #578058 ]
Mon, 09 July 2012 19:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 9607
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

nullterm wrote on Mon, 09 July 2012 19:14

I'll be cool with Doan going anywhere. Nice to see him go on a Cup run with a contender. Or come home to Edmonton would be even better selfishly for me/us.

But if he goes to the Canucks, he's dead to me, as is all respect I ever had for him. Hopefully he's a better person than that group, I have faith in that.


I never understood all the love for Doan. Yeah, he's a heart-on-his-sleeve player, born in Alberta, but so what? Never an Oiler, never a superstar, never on a relevant team. I don't give a damn about Shane Doan. I don't want him on the Oilers, since we already have enough senior citizens with Smyth, Sutton and Khabibulin, and I don't imagine he'd love the role he'd be faced with as an Oiler anyhow.

I think it's funny that there is more interest in a diminishing Doan then there is in a fantastic scorer in Semin. Doan will go somewhere and the pundits will love the move. Semin is going to get roasted again when he finally chooses a team, and even worse if it's a Russian one, but if I'm a GM, I'm trying a lot harder to land Semin than Shane Doan.



#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireEakins #FireActon #FireSmith #FireBuchberger #FireMoores #Burnitdown #KeepJoey

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Pending UFAs 2012 [message #578061 is a reply to message #578060 ]
Mon, 09 July 2012 19:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hmc  is currently offline hmc
Messages: 4059
Registered: May 2008
Location: Toronto

4 Cups

Adam wrote on Mon, 09 July 2012 21:31

I never understood all the love for Doan. Yeah, he's a heart-on-his-sleeve player, born in Alberta, but so what? Never an Oiler, never a superstar, never on a relevant team. I don't give a damn about Shane Doan. I don't want him on the Oilers, since we already have enough senior citizens with Smyth, Sutton and Khabibulin, and I don't imagine he'd love the role he'd be faced with as an Oiler anyhow.

I think it's funny that there is more interest in a diminishing Doan then there is in a fantastic scorer in Semin. Doan will go somewhere and the pundits will love the move. Semin is going to get roasted again when he finally chooses a team, and even worse if it's a Russian one, but if I'm a GM, I'm trying a lot harder to land Semin than Shane Doan.


Intangible qualities that Doan possesses, yet Semin doesn't:

Leadership
Wants to win
Western Canadian kid
Heart
Western Canadian kid
Grit
Western Canadian kid



Then I'll just regress, because I feel I've made myself perfectly redundant.

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Pending UFAs 2012 [message #578068 is a reply to message #578061 ]
Mon, 09 July 2012 20:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rukm01  is currently offline rukm01
Messages: 2059
Registered: December 2004
Location: Edmonton

2 Cups

Quote:


Intangible qualities that Doan possesses, yet Semin doesn't:

Leadership
Wants to win
Western Canadian kid
Heart
Western Canadian kid
Grit
Western Canadian kid



Has nothing to do with where either guy is from imo. The fact Semin has no intangibles is the issue. Every GM in the league would have given their left arm for Konstantinov back in the day. The reason teams are leery of Semin is his well-earned rep for bailing when the going gets rough. I don't buy for one second that it would make any difference if his birth certificate said Canada.



Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Pending UFAs 2012 [message #578069 is a reply to message #578068 ]
Mon, 09 July 2012 20:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hmc  is currently offline hmc
Messages: 4059
Registered: May 2008
Location: Toronto

4 Cups

rukm01 wrote on Mon, 09 July 2012 22:16

Quote:


Intangible qualities that Doan possesses, yet Semin doesn't:

Leadership
Wants to win
Western Canadian kid
Heart
Western Canadian kid
Grit
Western Canadian kid



It has nothing to do with where either guy is from. The fact Semin has no intangibles is the issue. Every GM in the league would have given their left arm for Konstantinov back in the day. The reason teams are leery of Semin is his well-earned rep for bailing when the going gets rough. I don't buy for one second that it would make any difference if his birth certificate said Canada.


Ok. Remove the tongue in cheek repetitions of the Western Canadian kid meme. Perhaps I overstated my case.

As Adam said Shane Doan is…what? Loyal? He's definitely a cheap shot artist, but that translates to gritty or tough in Doan's case - though country of origin apparently has nothing to do with that?

"Semin has no intangibles" is just…wow.



Then I'll just regress, because I feel I've made myself perfectly redundant.

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Pending UFAs 2012 [message #578079 is a reply to message #578069 ]
Mon, 09 July 2012 20:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rukm01  is currently offline rukm01
Messages: 2059
Registered: December 2004
Location: Edmonton

2 Cups

[quote title=hmc wrote on Mon, 09 July 2012 20:21][quote title=rukm01 wrote on Mon, 09 July 2012 22:16]
Quote:



"Semin has no intangibles" is just…wow.


Honest question: how much of Semin have you actually watched?





Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Pending UFAs 2012 [message #578082 is a reply to message #578079 ]
Mon, 09 July 2012 21:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hmc  is currently offline hmc
Messages: 4059
Registered: May 2008
Location: Toronto

4 Cups

rukm01 wrote on Mon, 09 July 2012 22:16

Quote:


"Semin has no intangibles" is just…wow.


Honest question: how much of Semin have you actually watched?





A lot. I'm East coast remember, and have CI.

However, extrapolating a little, your implication is that I haven't watched Semin enough to know what he is or what he brings.

1: Extend this out a little bit, and almost no one here can comment on anyone.
2: If it's not clear by now, I don't care about: grit, heart, leadership, toughness, etc. I can look at Semin's boxcars, his possession numbers, and his quality of competition, and know that he contributes positively to the things that most matter to winning games (which, really, is the goal, no?). This isn't me disregarding the information available to me by watching the games (a popular slur against "advanced stats" people is that they don't watch the games), this is me acquiring information in addition to watching the games, and in service to figuring out who's good at giving a team the best chance to win.
3: Me saying I don't care about grit, heart, leadership, and toughness isn't me saying that there's no room on an NHL roster for guys that possess those qualities. I just don't think there's room in the NHL for guys that only possess one, some, or all of those qualities (Hordichuk, for example).



Then I'll just regress, because I feel I've made myself perfectly redundant.

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Pending UFAs 2012 [message #578099 is a reply to message #578082 ]
Mon, 09 July 2012 21:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rukm01  is currently offline rukm01
Messages: 2059
Registered: December 2004
Location: Edmonton

2 Cups

hmc wrote on Mon, 09 July 2012 21:02

rukm01 wrote on Mon, 09 July 2012 22:16

Quote:


"Semin has no intangibles" is just…wow.


Honest question: how much of Semin have you actually watched?





A lot. I'm East coast remember, and have CI.

However, extrapolating a little, your implication is that I haven't watched Semin enough to know what he is or what he brings.



No implication intended. I was honestly curious to know. I have also watched the Caps a lot, and having come to respect your opinion on this forum I just can't square it with what I've seen. The fact this year's FA crop is so weak and he'd only cost anybody cap space and still 30 GMs have so far passed... I really don't feel like I'm breaking a story here.

Agree to disagree.



Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Pending UFAs 2012 [message #578107 is a reply to message #578099 ]
Mon, 09 July 2012 22:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hmc  is currently offline hmc
Messages: 4059
Registered: May 2008
Location: Toronto

4 Cups

rukm01 wrote on Mon, 09 July 2012 23:49

No implication intended. I was honestly curious to know. I have also watched the Caps a lot, and having come to respect your opinion on this forum I just can't square it with what I've seen. The fact this year's FA crop is so weak and he'd only cost anybody cap space and still 30 GMs have so far passed... I really don't feel like I'm breaking a story here.

Agree to disagree.


I know agree to disagree is supposed to end the discussion, but do you really value intangibles over production? I know it's tough to answer that outside of a vacuum, but all of the adjectives we use to describe players like this are so…imprecise.

And re: 30 GMs passing. It seems likely Semin wants to stay in the NHL. Once his price (or term, quite possibly) comes down, he'll get a deal. I'd do 2 and 12 in a heartbeat, though he's probably looking for more term.



Then I'll just regress, because I feel I've made myself perfectly redundant.

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Pending UFAs 2012 [message #578114 is a reply to message #578107 ]
Mon, 09 July 2012 23:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rukm01  is currently offline rukm01
Messages: 2059
Registered: December 2004
Location: Edmonton

2 Cups

hmc wrote on Mon, 09 July 2012 22:38

but do you really value intangibles over production? I know it's tough to answer that outside of a vacuum, but all of the adjectives we use to describe players like this are so…imprecise.


I guess I'm not seeing the same production you are. Doan had more goals than Semin in the regular season (22 to 21) and almost as many points (all for more than $2 million cheaper).

Semin followed that up with all of four points in 12 playoff games. I mean, Brooks Laich outscored the guy.



Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Pending UFAs 2012 [message #578117 is a reply to message #578114 ]
Mon, 09 July 2012 23:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hmc  is currently offline hmc
Messages: 4059
Registered: May 2008
Location: Toronto

4 Cups

rukm01 wrote on Tue, 10 July 2012 01:16

hmc wrote on Mon, 09 July 2012 22:38

but do you really value intangibles over production? I know it's tough to answer that outside of a vacuum, but all of the adjectives we use to describe players like this are so…imprecise.


I guess I'm not seeing the same production you are. Doan had more goals than Semin in the regular season (22 to 21) and almost as many points (all for more than $2 million cheaper).

Semin followed that up with all of four points in 12 playoff games. I mean, Brooks Laich outscored the guy.



I've posted a bunch of good articles in the Semin thread that you should read.

But:

Semin:

P/60: 2.3
GF On/60: 3.02
GA On/60: 2.46
GF Off/60: 2.02
GA Off/60: 2.33

Doan:

P/60: 1.68
GF On/60: 2.44
GA On/60: 2.55
GF Off/60: 2.49
GA Off/60: 1.98

The production isn't close. Not only that, but Semin produces an extra goal per 60 minutes when he's on the ice than when he isn't. Phoenix scores more per 60 with Doan off than ice than with him on it. Plus, Phoenix gives up over half a goal per game with Doan on the ice than when he's off the ice. With Semin, there's little difference.

NB: These are 5v5 stats.



Then I'll just regress, because I feel I've made myself perfectly redundant.

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Pending UFAs 2012 [message #578130 is a reply to message #578117 ]
Tue, 10 July 2012 06:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
v4ance  is currently offline v4ance
Messages: 2582
Registered: July 2008
Location: Calgary

2 Cups

hmc wrote on Mon, 09 July 2012 23:38

rukm01 wrote on Tue, 10 July 2012 01:16

hmc wrote on Mon, 09 July 2012 22:38

but do you really value intangibles over production? I know it's tough to answer that outside of a vacuum, but all of the adjectives we use to describe players like this are so…imprecise.


I guess I'm not seeing the same production you are. Doan had more goals than Semin in the regular season (22 to 21) and almost as many points (all for more than $2 million cheaper).

Semin followed that up with all of four points in 12 playoff games. I mean, Brooks Laich outscored the guy.



I've posted a bunch of good articles in the Semin thread that you should read.

But:

Semin:

P/60: 2.3
GF On/60: 3.02
GA On/60: 2.46
GF Off/60: 2.02
GA Off/60: 2.33

Doan:

P/60: 1.68
GF On/60: 2.44
GA On/60: 2.55
GF Off/60: 2.49
GA Off/60: 1.98

The production isn't close. Not only that, but Semin produces an extra goal per 60 minutes when he's on the ice than when he isn't. Phoenix scores more per 60 with Doan off than ice than with him on it. Plus, Phoenix gives up over half a goal per game with Doan on the ice than when he's off the ice. With Semin, there's little difference.

NB: These are 5v5 stats.





http://www.anguscertified.com/alexander-semin-and-ignoring-t he-10-percent/

"Alexander Semin is one of the most polarizing players in the NHL. Like Westbrook, he has no shortage of critics, including former coaches, teammates, and members of the media. In the past few playoffs, TSN and CBC in particular have been consistent with their political party-like smear campaigns. People focus on what he takes off of the proverbial table (consistent production, toughness, physical play, and intangibles like grit and heart), all the while ignoring his positives (production at even strength, and a positive impact on linemates, among other things).

There is one big difference between the two players. (Russel) Westbrook is criticized at times for trying too hard. With Semin, the exact opposite is true.

Why does Semin get criticized for his faults so much more than other NHL players? There are many reasons.

In his column, Simmons also discusses what he calls the “10 Percent Theory.” All great athletes have weaknesses, and even the greatest players are only using about 90 percent of their total potential (not sure how Simmons quantifies this, but in general the theory makes sense). These weaknesses represent the other 10 percent. For some players, these weaknesses are more glaring than others (in Semin’s case, his get dissected on an almost daily basis). With the right coaches, the right fit, and the right playing style, these weaknesses are minimized. Put Semin on a team with a strong leadership group (something Washington probably hasn’t had in recent years, although that is merely speculation without being privy to what goes on in the dressing room), and perhaps the four most recent seasons may have ended differently.

Simmons mentions Steve Francis in his column. Francis very well could be the Semin of the NBA – a mercurial and talented player who was a divisive figure from day one. Francis refused to play for the Vancouver Grizzlies, the team that drafted him, while Semin returned back to Russia after spending 52 games in Washington as a rookie in 2003-04. Simmons discussed Francis with his former coach Jeff Van Gundy. Van Gundy had Francis during his tenure in Houston, and during that time he tried to change the highly skilled and explosive guard into more of a typical pass-first point guard. In the process, he took away Francis’s 90 percent and focused too much attention on his 10 percent.

The same could be said for how Semin (and many of Washington’s other offensive stars) have been treated in recent years. The Capitals were once the class of the NHL offensively, but after a few playoff disappointments (the final straw being the stifling Montreal defense and Jaroslav Halak during 2010), they changed course, opting for more of a gritty, two-way brand of hockey.

Like Van Gundy in Houston, Washington’s coaches (starting with Bruce Boudreau and ending with Dale Hunter) tried to change Semin. They focused on what he wasn’t doing (blocking shots, appearing to compete hard), instead of what he was (producing at an elite level, elevating the play of those around him, even as his quality of linemates decreased).

Semin’s critics haven’t been entirely off the mark, though. Former teammates Matt Bradley and David Steckel spoke negatively of him in public – almost unheard of in hockey. This only confirmed what many people had assumed already – Semin was a bad teammate, and someone who cared more about his own stats than the greater good of winning games.

***

Matt Bradley, a teammate of Semin’s for a few seasons, had the following to say about the mercurial winger during an interview a few years ago.

“He could easily be the best player in the league. For whatever reason, just doesn’t care. You need him to be your best player, or one of your best players, and when he doesn’t show up, you almost get the sense that he wants to be back in Russia. That’s tough to win when you’ve got a guy like that.”

Semin, thought of as a one-way offensive talent, would surely drag down the defensive play of his linemates, no?

Quite the opposite, in fact. Almost all of his linemates have had better goals-against ratios while playing with him compared to playing without him (excluding Ovechkin in 2010-11). Only one of 14 linemates from the past three seasons performed significantly better defensively without Semin than with him. Some saw almost no difference with and without Semin on the wing, while others saw a significant improvement in their defensive play. He may lack grit, heart, intensity, and a “motor that doesn’t quit,” but Semin has been a very strong defensive forward in recent years. Read that out loud a few times, now.

Pierre McGuire is obviously plugged in to the hockey world. For all of his faults, he is a passionate color commentator with a coaching background and enough credibility to earn multiple interviews for GM vacancies. Calling Semin “the ultimate coach killer” likely comes from knowledge closer to the situation than most.

The perception of Semin as an enigma, a player no heart (or one with a heart back in Russia), and a talented player performing well below the level he should be at was almost universally accepted in hockey.

Some players (Kovalev and Semin) are simply unable to use their 90 percent 100 percent of the time. You may get a player who plays with the same effort and same level of physicality each and every night (Ryan Callahan, for example), and that makes up a large part of his 90 percent. However, Callahan could only dream of doing many of the things Semin can do with the puck on his stick.

Another part of Semin’s game that has provided ammunition for his detractors – his penchant for lazy penalties in the offensive zone. Looking at the numbers, it is hard to refute this claim. Semin takes a lot of minor penalties relative to his teammates as well as the rest of the league.

Semin’s scoring chance differential of plus-52 was more than double any other Capital player (Perreault was second at plus-24). With Semin on the ice, the Capitals generated 52 more scoring chances on net than their opposition did.

Some of the stories are true. Semin takes bad penalties. He isn’t the best teammate. However, calling him one-dimensional is simply wrong. Saying he doesn’t care? He would have been back in Russia long ago if that were true.

Take the final paragraph from Simmons’ column and replace Westbrook’s name with Semin’s.

“As for Semin, he’s never shedding that 10 percent. We’re always going to notice it. That is what makes him Alex Semin. You are who you are.”
"


I think this piece sums up the issue correctly. Semin = Kovalev is a very apt comparison.

Be happy for the player that he is rather than trying to push him into being a player that he isn't. If Semin ends up in a good organization, with strong internal leadership in the dressing room to keep him on track, then he'll silence a lot of critics.


EDIT: Sorry hmc, I didn't notice that you'd already posted this article in the Semin Speculation thread. Definitely a great analysis of the Semin situation and why NHL managers are hesitant to sign the "enigmatic" star.

[Updated on: Tue, 10 July 2012 06:27]


Jordan Eberle on his goal scoring: "A lot of guys joke that I have a muffin. Well, it's an accurate muffin, and that's all that counts."

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Pending UFAs 2012 [message #578070 is a reply to message #578060 ]
Mon, 09 July 2012 20:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm  is currently offline nullterm
Messages: 7466
Registered: July 2007
Location: Port Moody, BC

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Mon, 09 July 2012 18:31

nullterm wrote on Mon, 09 July 2012 19:14

I'll be cool with Doan going anywhere. Nice to see him go on a Cup run with a contender. Or come home to Edmonton would be even better selfishly for me/us.

But if he goes to the Canucks, he's dead to me, as is all respect I ever had for him. Hopefully he's a better person than that group, I have faith in that.


I never understood all the love for Doan. Yeah, he's a heart-on-his-sleeve player, born in Alberta, but so what? Never an Oiler, never a superstar, never on a relevant team. I don't give a damn about Shane Doan. I don't want him on the Oilers, since we already have enough senior citizens with Smyth, Sutton and Khabibulin, and I don't imagine he'd love the role he'd be faced with as an Oiler anyhow.

I think it's funny that there is more interest in a diminishing Doan then there is in a fantastic scorer in Semin. Doan will go somewhere and the pundits will love the move. Semin is going to get roasted again when he finally chooses a team, and even worse if it's a Russian one, but if I'm a GM, I'm trying a lot harder to land Semin than Shane Doan.


Love? Dunno. Tons of respect? Yes.

As for Semin's lack of intangibles. Intangibles are nice, but tangibles (goals, points) are better. Bottom six role players bring the intangibles, top six players bring the points.

If they bring the same number of points, then sure intangibles in a points guy is a great bonus.



Illegitimi non carborundum.

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Pending UFAs 2012 [message #578086 is a reply to message #578070 ]
Mon, 09 July 2012 21:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
goalpost  is currently offline goalpost
Messages: 941
Registered: March 2007
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

nullterm wrote on Mon, 09 July 2012 20:30


Intangibles are nice, but tangibles (goals, points) are better. Bottom six role players bring the intangibles, top six players bring the points.

If they bring the same number of points, then sure intangibles in a points guy is a great bonus.


Exactly.
Only two exceptions.
Firstly, barring Sean Avery type and degree of intangibles not every player is going to love or even like each other, that doesn't mean the team can't have success.

Secondly, the "intangibles" plays a factor in long term "franchise player" type contracts where tying up a lot of contract space for a long time can be problematic if the player pulls a Yashin or demands a trade [Nash'].


It's funny how winning tends to be the cure for all ails [Kobe and Shaq].




Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Pending UFAs 2012 [message #578092 is a reply to message #578086 ]
Mon, 09 July 2012 21:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike  is currently offline Mike
Messages: 6422
Registered: August 2005
Location: Moncton, New Brunswick

6 Cups

I don't mind Doan, but to me Doan=Smyth. In both cases, I've never understood the reverence for these guys. They're ok, but if they're the best player on your team, you need some better players.


Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Pending UFAs 2012 [message #578100 is a reply to message #578092 ]
Mon, 09 July 2012 21:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rukm01  is currently offline rukm01
Messages: 2059
Registered: December 2004
Location: Edmonton

2 Cups

Mike wrote on Mon, 09 July 2012 21:20

I don't mind Doan, but to me Doan=Smyth. In both cases, I've never understood the reverence for these guys. They're ok, but if they're the best player on your team, you need some better players.


That's pretty much my feeling too. I can see the value in having one or the other, but certainly not both.

Unless of course the tradeoff was Horcoff for Doan. fishing



Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Pending UFAs 2012 [message #578118 is a reply to message #578092 ]
Mon, 09 July 2012 23:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm  is currently offline nullterm
Messages: 7466
Registered: July 2007
Location: Port Moody, BC

6 Cups

Mike wrote on Mon, 09 July 2012 20:20

I don't mind Doan, but to me Doan=Smyth. In both cases, I've never understood the reverence for these guys. They're ok, but if they're the best player on your team, you need some better players.


Doan > Smyth

Smyth is gonna put up points. And he'll lead by example going into tough areas and bounce back from getting beat up. He'll receive, but he's doesn't dish it out.

Doan is gonna put up points. But he'll be the guy dishing out the toughness throwing hits. Throwing hits means asserting your will on the other team, creating opportunity on the forecheck, making the other team (dmen) make more mistakes under pressure or even taking away will to compete in softer guys.

All else being equal, I take the hitter over the punching bag 8 days of the week.



Illegitimi non carborundum.

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Pending UFAs 2012 [message #578129 is a reply to message #578118 ]
Tue, 10 July 2012 04:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike  is currently offline Mike
Messages: 6422
Registered: August 2005
Location: Moncton, New Brunswick

6 Cups

nullterm wrote on Tue, 10 July 2012 02:41

Mike wrote on Mon, 09 July 2012 20:20

I don't mind Doan, but to me Doan=Smyth. In both cases, I've never understood the reverence for these guys. They're ok, but if they're the best player on your team, you need some better players.


Doan > Smyth

Smyth is gonna put up points. And he'll lead by example going into tough areas and bounce back from getting beat up. He'll receive, but he's doesn't dish it out.

Doan is gonna put up points. But he'll be the guy dishing out the toughness throwing hits. Throwing hits means asserting your will on the other team, creating opportunity on the forecheck, making the other team (dmen) make more mistakes under pressure or even taking away will to compete in softer guys.

All else being equal, I take the hitter over the punching bag 8 days of the week.


Yeah - sure. I would have passed up re-signing Smyth in favor of getting Doan (and getting rid of Horcoff for a McNugget Happy Meal). But neither guy "does it" for me.

Doan's best point totals are a bit better than Smyth's (78 and 73 to Smyth's 70), but Smyth has been the much better goal scorer (Doan with 2 30+ goal season and a high of 31, Smyth with 4 and a high of 39)

Career stats:

Doan: 1198GP, 318G, 470A, 788Pts, -25
Smyth: 1151GP, 374G, 432A, 806Pts, -31

So, Smyth a bit of a better goal scorer, Doan a much better hitter. Not a whole lot to choose from in their careers to date.



Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Pending UFAs 2012 [message #576171 is a reply to message #572265 ]
Tue, 26 June 2012 18:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
v4ance  is currently offline v4ance
Messages: 2582
Registered: July 2008
Location: Calgary

2 Cups

via twitter:

Josh Yohe ‏@JoshYohe_Trib

Just spoke with two NHL sources who believe Parise to the Penguins is a very strong possibility.



Jordan Eberle on his goal scoring: "A lot of guys joke that I have a muffin. Well, it's an accurate muffin, and that's all that counts."

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Pending UFAs 2012 [message #576176 is a reply to message #576171 ]
Tue, 26 June 2012 19:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rukm01  is currently offline rukm01
Messages: 2059
Registered: December 2004
Location: Edmonton

2 Cups

v4ance wrote on Tue, 26 June 2012 18:41

via twitter:

Josh Yohe ‏@JoshYohe_Trib

Just spoke with two NHL sources who believe Parise to the Penguins is a very strong possibility.


Would be a great signing for them. They use the $$$ saved on Staal (and potentially Martin, who's rumored to be up for grabs) for as good a winger as they're going to get to play with Crosby. Neal stays with Malkin. And Sutter could well mature into a reasonable facsimile of Staal the PKer and all-around sandpapery guy.

[Updated on: Tue, 26 June 2012 19:10]


Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Pending UFAs 2012 [message #576194 is a reply to message #576176 ]
Tue, 26 June 2012 20:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Team Dean  is currently offline Team Dean
Messages: 1578
Registered: April 2010
Location: Central Alberta

1 Cup

Isnt that tampering? I thought nobody could talk to UFA's until July 1?
I mean, probably he will go to Pitts, but how would anyone know that yet?

Any ways, we have almost zero chance at Doan, Suter, or Parise.
We could hope to trade for Paul Martin once Pitts signs Suter, if indeed that does happen.



Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Pending UFAs 2012 [message #576262 is a reply to message #572265 ]
Wed, 27 June 2012 09:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
v4ance  is currently offline v4ance
Messages: 2582
Registered: July 2008
Location: Calgary

2 Cups

via Twitter:

JapersRink ‏@JapersRink

Under-discussed #Caps UFA target: Mikael Samuelsson. RW, good Corsi Rel (5.4) vs tough comp w/ 46% OZ starts, more SOG/gm than any non-8 Cap.


Former Canuck, soon to be ex-Panther



Jordan Eberle on his goal scoring: "A lot of guys joke that I have a muffin. Well, it's an accurate muffin, and that's all that counts."

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Pending UFAs 2012 [message #576271 is a reply to message #576262 ]
Wed, 27 June 2012 10:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Team Dean  is currently offline Team Dean
Messages: 1578
Registered: April 2010
Location: Central Alberta

1 Cup

Depending on the price, he sounds like a nice replacement for Belanger if we could unload him. We could give Samuellson Belangers 1.9M. He's probably in demand for even more than that though.


Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Pending UFAs 2012 [message #576274 is a reply to message #572265 ]
Wed, 27 June 2012 10:18 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
v4ance  is currently offline v4ance
Messages: 2582
Registered: July 2008
Location: Calgary

2 Cups

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/globe-on-hockey /the-nhls-top-unrestricted-free-agents-the-goaltenders/artic le4373762/

Being a free agent goalie is always a little like playing musical chairs.

With only 60 jobs as a regular starter or backup and established goalies taking many of those spots, netminders that become unrestricted free agents have to be careful they don’t end up without a home.

The Devils need to sign two netminders, but it’s unthinkable one of them won’t be Martin Brodeur. The Jets, meanwhile, have already acquired Jonas Gustavsson and just need to sign him. The Rangers want to bring back Martin Biron.

If those three deals all get done, then we have seven UFA goaltenders listed below and just three backup positions left to fill in Nashville, New Jersey and Philadelphia.

Who goes where?



Martin Brodeur .910 (NJD)
Johan Hedberg .915
Scott Clemmensen .912
Martin Biron .905 (NYR)
Dan Ellis .904
Jonas Gustavsson .900 (WPG)
Chris Mason .905
Dwayne Roloson .904
Al Montoya .905
Brent Johnson .907


Best guess: Hedberg re-signs in NJ. Montoya is young enough that Philly will gamble on him (and injury prone enough that he fits the Flyer's M.O. for iffy goalies). Clemmensen backs up Rinne in Nashville

I think Brent Johnson is toast. Roloson will have to retire. Dan Ellis problems will now take him to Europe. Chris Mason will catch on in the KHL as a starter.



Jordan Eberle on his goal scoring: "A lot of guys joke that I have a muffin. Well, it's an accurate muffin, and that's all that counts."

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Pending UFAs 2012 [message #576276 is a reply to message #576274 ]
Wed, 27 June 2012 10:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 9607
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

v4ance wrote on Wed, 27 June 2012 10:18

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/globe-on-hockey /the-nhls-top-unrestricted-free-agents-the-goaltenders/artic le4373762/

Being a free agent goalie is always a little like playing musical chairs.

With only 60 jobs as a regular starter or backup and established goalies taking many of those spots, netminders that become unrestricted free agents have to be careful they don’t end up without a home.

The Devils need to sign two netminders, but it’s unthinkable one of them won’t be Martin Brodeur. The Jets, meanwhile, have already acquired Jonas Gustavsson and just need to sign him. The Rangers want to bring back Martin Biron.

If those three deals all get done, then we have seven UFA goaltenders listed below and just three backup positions left to fill in Nashville, New Jersey and Philadelphia.

Who goes where?



Martin Brodeur .910 (NJD)
Johan Hedberg .915
Scott Clemmensen .912
Martin Biron .905 (NYR)
Dan Ellis .904
Jonas Gustavsson .900 (WPG)
Chris Mason .905
Dwayne Roloson .904
Al Montoya .905
Brent Johnson .907


Best guess: Hedberg re-signs in NJ. Montoya is young enough that Philly will gamble on him (and injury prone enough that he fits the Flyer's M.O. for iffy goalies). Clemmensen backs up Rinne in Nashville

I think Brent Johnson is toast. Roloson will have to retire. Dan Ellis problems will now take him to Europe. Chris Mason will catch on in the KHL as a starter.


I wonder if Chris Mason would head to Russia? I think he's got a fairly young family here and so I wonder if he'd rather retire or play in the AHL as opposed to going overseas. There was some speculation in that article that he might return to where it all began in Nashville - surely it's about time for another Nashville prospect to emerge on the scene as the next great thing though, isn't it?

I thnk you're right on Roli though. He really had a tough season last year in Tampa. Got to wonder if there's anything left in the tank.

This does highlight one problem for the Oilers though...there's absolutely no market for Nikolai Khabibulin.



#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireEakins #FireActon #FireSmith #FireBuchberger #FireMoores #Burnitdown #KeepJoey

Send a private message to this user  

Pages (3): [ «  <  1  2  3  >  »]  
Previous Topic:Strudwick Article - Trusted Players
Next Topic:Size & the Top-Six
Oilers NHL Minors Speculation For Sale 


Copyright OilFans.com 1996-2013.
All content is property of OilFans.com and cannot be used without expressed, written consent from this site.
Questions, comments and suggestions can be directed to oilfans@OilFans.com
Privacy Statement


Hosted by LogicalHosting.ca