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Oilers » Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM and POHO offer

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Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737092 is a reply to message #737057 ]	Mon, 06 May 2019 08:39

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3698
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

I must admit, I didn't see a fit mostly because I didn't think he would come. As I said in a different thread, I am not sure if he's the right guy or not. I see pros and cons to him.
Pros:
- Experience. The Oilers are a mess so to fix to it, changes will have to be made. Given his experience, he's going to be able to sell the changes pretty easy. If as an example he trades Lucic and it costs and asset and they have to retain, he's going to be able to sell that pretty easy as needed vs a new guy might not. With experience, there shouldn't be any issue with growing pains for the job like you might have with a new guy.
- He has a philosophy of drafting and developing and his draft record is pretty decent.
- He should have great contacts and relations with all people in the league.
- With his experience and pedigree, I believe that he of all people will be able to actually get rid of some of the old management that is sorely needed. I don't see a guy like him coming here to be a puppet and just accept taking on the old management. I think a new guy would have been made to keep some guys.

Cons:
- He's a older GM, he could be set in his ways. We won't know until he gets going.
- The Wings haven't been that good for a few years.
- Some of is signings over the last few years haven't been great.

When it comes to the cons and the Wings being bad, I wonder how much of it was a GM trying to keep their crazy playoff streak alive and trying to stay in the winning window when they had all their star players still as they got older. When you win, you tend to resign players, give out an extra year or 2 or a little extra money as reward when maybe you should move on. We have seen it with all the teams that win. When you are winning, you don't have higher picks and you trade off young players and draft picks to stay in the window. We have seen it with other teams. The Pens are at that point right now. The Hawks are going through it. I also wonder how much of making the playoffs and just keeping that streak alive played into some of his moves. We have heard that it was a big deal. Do you sign a vet guy that maybe you wouldn't. Do you hold on to a guy that maybe you shouldn't?

I don't know if he is the right guy or not. I am hopeful he is but I have my concerns. A good start for him will be to get rid of some of the old hockey ops people. If that happens, I see it as a step in the right direction.

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Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737093 is a reply to message #737087 ]	Mon, 06 May 2019 08:54

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7638
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

Burgeoboy wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 04:48

clutchlikeeberle wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 07:15

As I sit back and laugh at the insane comments here I cannot but wonder who could the Oilers have hired that would not get dissed. Minus Stevie Y of course. No one.....it is a wonder no one wants to play in Canada. You guys are insane man .....

Just so we are clear, Stevie Y would also have been dissed as well. No person that ever played hockey can also be a good GM .....

I sure would. Until the men responsible for the last 20 years of debacle are held accountable and removed, I have no reason to believe the last 20 years won't continue.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737095 is a reply to message #737087 ]	Mon, 06 May 2019 08:57

PoolParty
Messages: 29
Registered: November 2009
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

Burgeoboy wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 04:48

clutchlikeeberle wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 07:15

As I sit back and laugh at the insane comments here I cannot but wonder who could the Oilers have hired that would not get dissed. Minus Stevie Y of course. No one.....it is a wonder no one wants to play in Canada. You guys are insane man .....

Just so we are clear, Stevie Y would also have been dissed as well. No person that ever played hockey can also be a good GM .....

What it comes down to on this and any other platform is that until the Oilers start winning playoff games no hire will be the right one. Katz and OEG could build the ideal GM from scratch and this forum in particular would sh1t all over it.

This forum has turned into a pessimistic cesspool of bitching and whining about the same topics consistently.

#Adam #Kr55 #CrusaderPi #inverno76

#RDOilerfan is possibly reformed, time will tell.

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Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737096 is a reply to message #737085 ]	Mon, 06 May 2019 09:02

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3698
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

clutchlikeeberle wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 03:45

As I sit back and laugh at the insane comments here I cannot but wonder who could the Oilers have hired that would not get dissed. Minus Stevie Y of course. No one.....it is a wonder no one wants to play in Canada. You guys are insane man .....

I said a similar comment on twitter and in another thread recently. I can't think of a candidate that hasn't got carved up by Oilers fans. Even McCrimmon, who was the sexy pick and they didn't even get a chance to go after, got carved for lack of experience. Some questioned how much involvement he even had with putting Vegas together. I even saw someone throw him under the bus because he picked Reinhart from the Oilers in the expansion draft.

Where I disagree with you is I think even Yzerman would have received negative because I am sure he's made the odd bad move because no one is perfect. OR someone will bring up that his team hasn't won anything so he can't make a winner.

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Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737097 is a reply to message #737095 ]	Mon, 06 May 2019 09:07

Magnum
Messages: 839
Registered: June 2009
Location: Rogers' Arena > Banff

No Cups

PoolParty wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 08:57

Burgeoboy wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 04:48

clutchlikeeberle wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 07:15

As I sit back and laugh at the insane comments here I cannot but wonder who could the Oilers have hired that would not get dissed. Minus Stevie Y of course. No one.....it is a wonder no one wants to play in Canada. You guys are insane man .....

Just so we are clear, Stevie Y would also have been dissed as well. No person that ever played hockey can also be a good GM .....

What it comes down to on this and any other platform is that until the Oilers start winning playoff games no hire will be the right one. Katz and OEG could build the ideal GM from scratch and this forum in particular would sh1t all over it.

That’s the whole point! We don’t care who the GM is, it doesn’t matter.

The only way there will be organizational change is if entrenched management goes. The only staff move(s) that we would’ve been happy with, are ones where Kevin, Craig, Scott, and company were removed from the organization. Many were hoping that with the new GM, there would be capacity and willingness to remove old management. We think Holland won’t do this, therefore, it’s not a popular move. If the new GM seemed like someone who was going to release entrenched management, then we would be happy. Pretty straight forward.

2015/2016 - This Kool-Aid tastes like McDavid flavoured Drain-O.
2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.
2017/2018 - I'm drinking this Kool-Aid, in hopes that it's Drain-O.
2018/2019 - Another round of Drain-O, good sir!

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Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737100 is a reply to message #737096 ]	Mon, 06 May 2019 09:31

McDavid97
Messages: 97
Registered: July 2007

No Cups

It is amazing to read the posters on here talk about no way Holland comes here, he just signed an extension, & no main stream media person is saying it so it can't be true. My god are some of you brainwashed. Oh I need someone to say the same thing 100 times before I believe it.

I think for a lot of us we are disappointed as how this played out. Yes there weren't a ton of candidates that came forward as sexy but they also interviewed people that insiders didn't discuss as well. So maybe that is a step in the right direction.

What isn't great about this is Holland was one of the guys guiding Bob on what to do properly and Bob ended up failing at that in that he hired Holland. We will see if Kretzky gets kept on, my hunch is that he will and will either be AGM or lead scout but be "groomed" for GM so it helps with optics in a few years if Holland retires.

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Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737107 is a reply to message #737037 ]	Mon, 06 May 2019 10:10

Kr55
Messages: 9602
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Who does Holland Remove First (within 6 months)?[ 33 vote(s) ]

1. MacT 4 / 12%
2. Howson 8 / 24%
3. Kretzky 0 / 0%
4. Paul Messier 0 / 0%
5. Mark Messier 0 / 0%
6. Duane Sutter 13 / 39%
7. Coffey 0 / 0%
8. Bob Green 0 / 0%
9. David Pelletier 0 / 0%
10. Nobody 8 / 24%

DO we get a high profile firing in the next 6 months? Or at least banishment from hockey ops? Or will we go into next season with every notable name still around?

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737109 is a reply to message #737107 ]	Mon, 06 May 2019 10:16

Ragnarok73
Messages: 2343
Registered: February 2011

2 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:10

DO we get a high profile firing in the next 6 months? Or at least banishment from hockey ops? Or will we go into next season with every notable name still around?

Yeah, unless heads start to roll the second Ken rolls into town, I'm remaining very skeptical of his ability to change anything for the better in this tire fire.

"There's no greater springboard to development than failure." - Craig MacTavish, April 13/15.

5-14-6-1

"Sabres think the suck is their ally? They merely adopted the suck. The Oilers were born in it...molded by it."

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Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737110 is a reply to message #737096 ]	Mon, 06 May 2019 10:18

Goose
Messages: 1098
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver

1 Cup

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 08:02

clutchlikeeberle wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 03:45

As I sit back and laugh at the insane comments here I cannot but wonder who could the Oilers have hired that would not get dissed. Minus Stevie Y of course. No one.....it is a wonder no one wants to play in Canada. You guys are insane man .....

I said a similar comment on twitter and in another thread recently. I can't think of a candidate that hasn't got carved up by Oilers fans. Even McCrimmon, who was the sexy pick and they didn't even get a chance to go after, got carved for lack of experience. Some questioned how much involvement he even had with putting Vegas together. I even saw someone throw him under the bus because he picked Reinhart from the Oilers in the expansion draft.

Where I disagree with you is I think even Yzerman would have received negative because I am sure he's made the odd bad move because no one is perfect. OR someone will bring up that his team hasn't won anything so he can't make a winner.

What's really amazing is that the exact same people that hired Chia just used the exact same process to hire Holland (no interview, hired based off of reputation), and there are still people out there saying, "THIS time it's all totally going to work out, just give it a chance".

The problem isn't the name of the person they're hiring, it's that the whole process and mindset of this organization is so obviously flawed and literally nothing has changed. That's why they can go through 4 GMs and 6 head coaches, and still be awful.

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737112 is a reply to message #737107 ]	Mon, 06 May 2019 10:19

Adam
Messages: 6813
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:10

DO we get a high profile firing in the next 6 months? Or at least banishment from hockey ops? Or will we go into next season with every notable name still around?

The Oilers have been telegraphing Sutter's removal for a while now. He was almost the only one that Chiarelli was willing to go to for advice near the end! Someone has to pay for all that failure...and it proves the autonomy thing if he's allowed to fire someone, so expect Duane to walk the plank.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737114 is a reply to message #737110 ]	Mon, 06 May 2019 10:25

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3698
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Goose wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:18

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 08:02

clutchlikeeberle wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 03:45

As I sit back and laugh at the insane comments here I cannot but wonder who could the Oilers have hired that would not get dissed. Minus Stevie Y of course. No one.....it is a wonder no one wants to play in Canada. You guys are insane man .....

I said a similar comment on twitter and in another thread recently. I can't think of a candidate that hasn't got carved up by Oilers fans. Even McCrimmon, who was the sexy pick and they didn't even get a chance to go after, got carved for lack of experience. Some questioned how much involvement he even had with putting Vegas together. I even saw someone throw him under the bus because he picked Reinhart from the Oilers in the expansion draft.

Where I disagree with you is I think even Yzerman would have received negative because I am sure he's made the odd bad move because no one is perfect. OR someone will bring up that his team hasn't won anything so he can't make a winner.

What's really amazing is that the exact same people that hired Chia just used the exact same process to hire Holland (no interview, hired based off of reputation), and there are still people out there saying, "THIS time it's all totally going to work out, just give it a chance".

The problem isn't the name of the person they're hiring, it's that the whole process and mindset of this organization is so obviously flawed and literally nothing has changed. That's why they can go through 4 GMs and 6 head coaches, and still be awful.

So what do you base your comment on he didn't get an interview? Do you work for the Oilers? Were you part of the hiring team? I saw your same comment tweeted by an Oilers blogger. Doesn't work for the team, just another Oilers blogger who apparently has "contacts".

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Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737115 is a reply to message #737037 ]	Mon, 06 May 2019 10:27

Rocksteady
Messages: 479
Registered: March 2007

No Cups

I have a few flags on the play on bringing Holland in.

1. He wasn't interviewed
2. Uses gut analytics*
3. Detroit hasn't been competitive since 2016 and are cap strapped
4. Nicholson's OBC in hockey Canada.

*

Jeff Merek Twitter @JeffMerek

"The analytics we use are gut analytics" - Wings GM Ken Holland on #MvsW moments ago

Ken Holland (still with Detroit) sounds like he's going to miss being a GM so it wasn't too far of a stretch, and listen to the interview it sounds like he wasn't going willingly.. and for tin foil hatters out there, the youtube link actually has yeg in the title so him coming to Edmonton was foretold.

I'm not certain Holland can get us out of what ails the team. I don't think the Oilers OBC will be let go and the toxicity of the management culture will still be high.

In the end the entire NHL is an OBC - a fraternity if you will. If you played at a high level or were associated with players at a high level, you were in. I don't think anyone in hockey today worked their way up through the ranks to be who they are and if they have they probably struggled mightily to get any deals or guys to take them seriously until they have been at that level for some time.

I don't know who I'd like in place of Holland, truth is I don't know of their background to give an informed opinion but I just want the toxic environment of the Oilers to end and the team to return to a blue collar work ethic and put out an honest effort night in and night out. If you don't.. you're gone.

It's not MOGA, it's just work and a honest day of it.

The very definition of insanity is doing the exact same thing expecting different results.

Generally Disappointed.

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Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737119 is a reply to message #737114 ]	Mon, 06 May 2019 10:30

CrudeRemarks
Messages: 1698
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton

1 Cup

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:25

Goose wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:18

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 08:02

clutchlikeeberle wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 03:45

As I sit back and laugh at the insane comments here I cannot but wonder who could the Oilers have hired that would not get dissed. Minus Stevie Y of course. No one.....it is a wonder no one wants to play in Canada. You guys are insane man .....

I said a similar comment on twitter and in another thread recently. I can't think of a candidate that hasn't got carved up by Oilers fans. Even McCrimmon, who was the sexy pick and they didn't even get a chance to go after, got carved for lack of experience. Some questioned how much involvement he even had with putting Vegas together. I even saw someone throw him under the bus because he picked Reinhart from the Oilers in the expansion draft.

Where I disagree with you is I think even Yzerman would have received negative because I am sure he's made the odd bad move because no one is perfect. OR someone will bring up that his team hasn't won anything so he can't make a winner.

What's really amazing is that the exact same people that hired Chia just used the exact same process to hire Holland (no interview, hired based off of reputation), and there are still people out there saying, "THIS time it's all totally going to work out, just give it a chance".

The problem isn't the name of the person they're hiring, it's that the whole process and mindset of this organization is so obviously flawed and literally nothing has changed. That's why they can go through 4 GMs and 6 head coaches, and still be awful.

So what do you base your comment on he didn't get an interview? Do you work for the Oilers? Were you part of the hiring team? I saw your same comment tweeted by an Oilers blogger. Doesn't work for the team, just another Oilers blogger who apparently has "contacts".

I for one think the Oilers deserve the benefit of the doubt that this, the 5th GM since Sather left, will finally have some ability to do the job unlike the previous 4. And I hope his "autonomy" doesn't mean he is too proud to get feedback from all the winners in the offices upstairs.

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.

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Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737120 is a reply to message #737114 ]	Mon, 06 May 2019 10:30

McDavid97
Messages: 97
Registered: July 2007

No Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:25

Goose wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:18

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 08:02

clutchlikeeberle wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 03:45

As I sit back and laugh at the insane comments here I cannot but wonder who could the Oilers have hired that would not get dissed. Minus Stevie Y of course. No one.....it is a wonder no one wants to play in Canada. You guys are insane man .....

I said a similar comment on twitter and in another thread recently. I can't think of a candidate that hasn't got carved up by Oilers fans. Even McCrimmon, who was the sexy pick and they didn't even get a chance to go after, got carved for lack of experience. Some questioned how much involvement he even had with putting Vegas together. I even saw someone throw him under the bus because he picked Reinhart from the Oilers in the expansion draft.

Where I disagree with you is I think even Yzerman would have received negative because I am sure he's made the odd bad move because no one is perfect. OR someone will bring up that his team hasn't won anything so he can't make a winner.

What's really amazing is that the exact same people that hired Chia just used the exact same process to hire Holland (no interview, hired based off of reputation), and there are still people out there saying, "THIS time it's all totally going to work out, just give it a chance".

The problem isn't the name of the person they're hiring, it's that the whole process and mindset of this organization is so obviously flawed and literally nothing has changed. That's why they can go through 4 GMs and 6 head coaches, and still be awful.

So what do you base your comment on he didn't get an interview? Do you work for the Oilers? Were you part of the hiring team? I saw your same comment tweeted by an Oilers blogger. Doesn't work for the team, just another Oilers blogger who apparently has "contacts".

This coming from the guy that said no way Holland comes here and no main stream media person is saying it (last week) so there is no way....

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Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737121 is a reply to message #737114 ]	Mon, 06 May 2019 10:30

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3698
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

I would have liked to have been able to pick more people to be fired in the poll.

[Updated on: Mon, 06 May 2019 10:34]

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Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737122 is a reply to message #737120 ]	Mon, 06 May 2019 10:32

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3698
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

McDavid97 wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:30

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:25

Goose wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:18

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 08:02

clutchlikeeberle wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 03:45

As I sit back and laugh at the insane comments here I cannot but wonder who could the Oilers have hired that would not get dissed. Minus Stevie Y of course. No one.....it is a wonder no one wants to play in Canada. You guys are insane man .....

I said a similar comment on twitter and in another thread recently. I can't think of a candidate that hasn't got carved up by Oilers fans. Even McCrimmon, who was the sexy pick and they didn't even get a chance to go after, got carved for lack of experience. Some questioned how much involvement he even had with putting Vegas together. I even saw someone throw him under the bus because he picked Reinhart from the Oilers in the expansion draft.

Where I disagree with you is I think even Yzerman would have received negative because I am sure he's made the odd bad move because no one is perfect. OR someone will bring up that his team hasn't won anything so he can't make a winner.

What's really amazing is that the exact same people that hired Chia just used the exact same process to hire Holland (no interview, hired based off of reputation), and there are still people out there saying, "THIS time it's all totally going to work out, just give it a chance".

The problem isn't the name of the person they're hiring, it's that the whole process and mindset of this organization is so obviously flawed and literally nothing has changed. That's why they can go through 4 GMs and 6 head coaches, and still be awful.

So what do you base your comment on he didn't get an interview? Do you work for the Oilers? Were you part of the hiring team? I saw your same comment tweeted by an Oilers blogger. Doesn't work for the team, just another Oilers blogger who apparently has "contacts".

This coming from the guy that said no way Holland comes here and no main stream media person is saying it (last week) so there is no way....

I didn't think he was coming. Given his relationship with Nicholson, his pedigree and experience, I could understand why Nicholson would be interested in Holland but I didn't see a fit for Holland to come to the Oilers. Am I not allowed to give an opinion?

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Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737123 is a reply to message #737121 ]	Mon, 06 May 2019 10:35

Adam
Messages: 6813
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:30

I would have liked to have been able to pick more people to be fired in the poll.

It's pretty rare that you're allowed to fire UP. Vice-Chairs out-rank General Managers I'm afraid.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737124 is a reply to message #737119 ]	Mon, 06 May 2019 10:38

Adam
Messages: 6813
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

CrudeRemarks wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:30

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:25

Goose wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:18

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 08:02

clutchlikeeberle wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 03:45

As I sit back and laugh at the insane comments here I cannot but wonder who could the Oilers have hired that would not get dissed. Minus Stevie Y of course. No one.....it is a wonder no one wants to play in Canada. You guys are insane man .....

I said a similar comment on twitter and in another thread recently. I can't think of a candidate that hasn't got carved up by Oilers fans. Even McCrimmon, who was the sexy pick and they didn't even get a chance to go after, got carved for lack of experience. Some questioned how much involvement he even had with putting Vegas together. I even saw someone throw him under the bus because he picked Reinhart from the Oilers in the expansion draft.

Where I disagree with you is I think even Yzerman would have received negative because I am sure he's made the odd bad move because no one is perfect. OR someone will bring up that his team hasn't won anything so he can't make a winner.

What's really amazing is that the exact same people that hired Chia just used the exact same process to hire Holland (no interview, hired based off of reputation), and there are still people out there saying, "THIS time it's all totally going to work out, just give it a chance".

The problem isn't the name of the person they're hiring, it's that the whole process and mindset of this organization is so obviously flawed and literally nothing has changed. That's why they can go through 4 GMs and 6 head coaches, and still be awful.

So what do you base your comment on he didn't get an interview? Do you work for the Oilers? Were you part of the hiring team? I saw your same comment tweeted by an Oilers blogger. Doesn't work for the team, just another Oilers blogger who apparently has "contacts".

I for one think the Oilers deserve the benefit of the doubt that this, the 5th GM since Sather left, will finally have some ability to do the job unlike the previous 4. And I hope his "autonomy" doesn't mean he is too proud to get feedback from all the winners in the offices upstairs.

It's true. Why do all these negative nellies not want to wait to see if the exact same management group with one more old guy who they know from Team Canada can produce different results from the same group with a different Team Canada relationship last year?

I'm sure that McDavid has boundless patience for this carousel to go around a few more times, right? Why is everyone so impatient? I've been told before (by Oilers media guys) that you can't really judge a GM until you're 4 or 5 years in to their reign!

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737125 is a reply to message #737122 ]	Mon, 06 May 2019 10:38

PlusOne
Messages: 1523
Registered: July 2006
Location: Regina, Sask

1 Cup

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:32

McDavid97 wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:30

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:25

Goose wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:18

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 08:02

clutchlikeeberle wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 03:45

As I sit back and laugh at the insane comments here I cannot but wonder who could the Oilers have hired that would not get dissed. Minus Stevie Y of course. No one.....it is a wonder no one wants to play in Canada. You guys are insane man .....

I said a similar comment on twitter and in another thread recently. I can't think of a candidate that hasn't got carved up by Oilers fans. Even McCrimmon, who was the sexy pick and they didn't even get a chance to go after, got carved for lack of experience. Some questioned how much involvement he even had with putting Vegas together. I even saw someone throw him under the bus because he picked Reinhart from the Oilers in the expansion draft.

Where I disagree with you is I think even Yzerman would have received negative because I am sure he's made the odd bad move because no one is perfect. OR someone will bring up that his team hasn't won anything so he can't make a winner.

What's really amazing is that the exact same people that hired Chia just used the exact same process to hire Holland (no interview, hired based off of reputation), and there are still people out there saying, "THIS time it's all totally going to work out, just give it a chance".

The problem isn't the name of the person they're hiring, it's that the whole process and mindset of this organization is so obviously flawed and literally nothing has changed. That's why they can go through 4 GMs and 6 head coaches, and still be awful.

So what do you base your comment on he didn't get an interview? Do you work for the Oilers? Were you part of the hiring team? I saw your same comment tweeted by an Oilers blogger. Doesn't work for the team, just another Oilers blogger who apparently has "contacts".

This coming from the guy that said no way Holland comes here and no main stream media person is saying it (last week) so there is no way....

I didn't think he was coming. Given his relationship with Nicholson, his pedigree and experience, I could understand why Nicholson would be interested in Holland but I didn't see a fit for Holland to come to the Oilers. Am I not allowed to give an opinion?

Sure, have an option. Put in typical fashion you were condescending about it and repeated yourself hoping someone would buy your BS.

Now, again typical, instead of backtracking and admitting you were 100% wrong you are doubling down.

Maybe look outside of the bubble you live in. The world can be fun, yours seems filled with anger and ignorance.

Survivor LX(I) and 67 Champ(i)on

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

und(i)sputed O.L.F.N Heavybra(i)n Champ(i)on of the Woooooooooooooooooorld. Plus. One.

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Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737126 is a reply to message #737124 ]	Mon, 06 May 2019 10:39

PlusOne
Messages: 1523
Registered: July 2006
Location: Regina, Sask

1 Cup

Adam wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:38

CrudeRemarks wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:30

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:25

Goose wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:18

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 08:02

clutchlikeeberle wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 03:45

As I sit back and laugh at the insane comments here I cannot but wonder who could the Oilers have hired that would not get dissed. Minus Stevie Y of course. No one.....it is a wonder no one wants to play in Canada. You guys are insane man .....

I said a similar comment on twitter and in another thread recently. I can't think of a candidate that hasn't got carved up by Oilers fans. Even McCrimmon, who was the sexy pick and they didn't even get a chance to go after, got carved for lack of experience. Some questioned how much involvement he even had with putting Vegas together. I even saw someone throw him under the bus because he picked Reinhart from the Oilers in the expansion draft.

Where I disagree with you is I think even Yzerman would have received negative because I am sure he's made the odd bad move because no one is perfect. OR someone will bring up that his team hasn't won anything so he can't make a winner.

What's really amazing is that the exact same people that hired Chia just used the exact same process to hire Holland (no interview, hired based off of reputation), and there are still people out there saying, "THIS time it's all totally going to work out, just give it a chance".

The problem isn't the name of the person they're hiring, it's that the whole process and mindset of this organization is so obviously flawed and literally nothing has changed. That's why they can go through 4 GMs and 6 head coaches, and still be awful.

So what do you base your comment on he didn't get an interview? Do you work for the Oilers? Were you part of the hiring team? I saw your same comment tweeted by an Oilers blogger. Doesn't work for the team, just another Oilers blogger who apparently has "contacts".

I for one think the Oilers deserve the benefit of the doubt that this, the 5th GM since Sather left, will finally have some ability to do the job unlike the previous 4. And I hope his "autonomy" doesn't mean he is too proud to get feedback from all the winners in the offices upstairs.

It's true. Why do all these negative nellies not want to wait to see if the exact same management group with one more old guy who they know from Team Canada can produce different results from the same group with a different Team Canada relationship last year?

I'm sure that McDavid has boundless patience for this carousel to go around a few more times, right? Why is everyone so impatient? I've been told before (by Oilers media guys) that you can't really judge a GM until you're 4 or 5 years in to their reign!

I am willing to wait and see with Holland. I mentioned in the spec thread at one point that I dont have any real idea what happens with these guys behind closed doors so maybe he is best for the job.

He has done nothing wrong to the Oilers so until then he has my support.

The rest of the OBC is long out of my circle of trust.

Survivor LX(I) and 67 Champ(i)on

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

und(i)sputed O.L.F.N Heavybra(i)n Champ(i)on of the Woooooooooooooooooorld. Plus. One.

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Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737127 is a reply to message #737124 ]	Mon, 06 May 2019 10:40

CrudeRemarks
Messages: 1698
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton

1 Cup

Adam wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:38

CrudeRemarks wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:30

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:25

Goose wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:18

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 08:02

clutchlikeeberle wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 03:45

As I sit back and laugh at the insane comments here I cannot but wonder who could the Oilers have hired that would not get dissed. Minus Stevie Y of course. No one.....it is a wonder no one wants to play in Canada. You guys are insane man .....

I said a similar comment on twitter and in another thread recently. I can't think of a candidate that hasn't got carved up by Oilers fans. Even McCrimmon, who was the sexy pick and they didn't even get a chance to go after, got carved for lack of experience. Some questioned how much involvement he even had with putting Vegas together. I even saw someone throw him under the bus because he picked Reinhart from the Oilers in the expansion draft.

Where I disagree with you is I think even Yzerman would have received negative because I am sure he's made the odd bad move because no one is perfect. OR someone will bring up that his team hasn't won anything so he can't make a winner.

What's really amazing is that the exact same people that hired Chia just used the exact same process to hire Holland (no interview, hired based off of reputation), and there are still people out there saying, "THIS time it's all totally going to work out, just give it a chance".

The problem isn't the name of the person they're hiring, it's that the whole process and mindset of this organization is so obviously flawed and literally nothing has changed. That's why they can go through 4 GMs and 6 head coaches, and still be awful.

So what do you base your comment on he didn't get an interview? Do you work for the Oilers? Were you part of the hiring team? I saw your same comment tweeted by an Oilers blogger. Doesn't work for the team, just another Oilers blogger who apparently has "contacts".

I for one think the Oilers deserve the benefit of the doubt that this, the 5th GM since Sather left, will finally have some ability to do the job unlike the previous 4. And I hope his "autonomy" doesn't mean he is too proud to get feedback from all the winners in the offices upstairs.

It's true. Why do all these negative nellies not want to wait to see if the exact same management group with one more old guy who they know from Team Canada can produce different results from the same group with a different Team Canada relationship last year?

I'm sure that McDavid has boundless patience for this carousel to go around a few more times, right? Why is everyone so impatient? I've been told before (by Oilers media guys) that you can't really judge a GM until you're 4 or 5 years in to their reign!

GMs are like dmen. They need to over-ripen.

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.

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Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737128 is a reply to message #737122 ]	Mon, 06 May 2019 10:42

McDavid97
Messages: 97
Registered: July 2007

No Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:32

McDavid97 wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:30

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:25

Goose wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:18

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 08:02

clutchlikeeberle wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 03:45

As I sit back and laugh at the insane comments here I cannot but wonder who could the Oilers have hired that would not get dissed. Minus Stevie Y of course. No one.....it is a wonder no one wants to play in Canada. You guys are insane man .....

I said a similar comment on twitter and in another thread recently. I can't think of a candidate that hasn't got carved up by Oilers fans. Even McCrimmon, who was the sexy pick and they didn't even get a chance to go after, got carved for lack of experience. Some questioned how much involvement he even had with putting Vegas together. I even saw someone throw him under the bus because he picked Reinhart from the Oilers in the expansion draft.

Where I disagree with you is I think even Yzerman would have received negative because I am sure he's made the odd bad move because no one is perfect. OR someone will bring up that his team hasn't won anything so he can't make a winner.

What's really amazing is that the exact same people that hired Chia just used the exact same process to hire Holland (no interview, hired based off of reputation), and there are still people out there saying, "THIS time it's all totally going to work out, just give it a chance".

The problem isn't the name of the person they're hiring, it's that the whole process and mindset of this organization is so obviously flawed and literally nothing has changed. That's why they can go through 4 GMs and 6 head coaches, and still be awful.

So what do you base your comment on he didn't get an interview? Do you work for the Oilers? Were you part of the hiring team? I saw your same comment tweeted by an Oilers blogger. Doesn't work for the team, just another Oilers blogger who apparently has "contacts".

This coming from the guy that said no way Holland comes here and no main stream media person is saying it (last week) so there is no way....

I didn't think he was coming. Given his relationship with Nicholson, his pedigree and experience, I could understand why Nicholson would be interested in Holland but I didn't see a fit for Holland to come to the Oilers. Am I not allowed to give an opinion?

Here is some of your comments:

Because Rod Pederson was known for being this amazing source of credible information. icon_rolleyes

When someone like Friedman who actually has legit contacts mentions it, then I will see it as having legs.

I have seen by multiple people that supposedly Holland hasn't even been asked. He just signed a new deal to be the Pres in Detroit.

It's one thing to have an opinion but when you say oh X didn't say it yet it can't be true.

So Friedman and others never said anything about Holland being interviewed or mentioned being a lead for the GM job until the last few days when this contract was offered to them. They may have hinted if other candidates are out he might be one that would be there. All the talk was about Kretzky feelings, McCrimmon, Burke, and Hunter. Wow magically they were all wrong when they said that... it's amazing isn't it. Just because people you follow doesn't say it doesn't mean it did / didn't happen. You question the ones that got it right a week ago (whether or not it was a guess) but don't question whether the people you follow actually know everything.

Edit added:

So either this decision was rushed in the last few days (although some said it a week ago) and they just picked Holland or maybe these "insiders" actually didn't have the inside scoop... shocking.

[Updated on: Mon, 06 May 2019 10:46]

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Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737131 is a reply to message #737123 ]	Mon, 06 May 2019 10:58

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3698
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Adam wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:35

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:30

I would have liked to have been able to pick more people to be fired in the poll.

It's pretty rare that you're allowed to fire UP. Vice-Chairs out-rank General Managers I'm afraid.

What if he is the Pres of Hockey ops and GM, then can he?

I have said it a few times. I don't know if he is the right guy. I didn't think he was coming because I didn't see the upside for him and leaving the City and organization you have been with for over 30 yrs and uprooting your entire life at 63 would be extremely hard. I saw a tweet yesterday that before he could say yes, he had to meet Marian Illitch, the wife of his dead boss in person to tell her he was leaving and I assume say sorry for leaving and hug it out. I don't see him doing all that to come in and be a puppet and happily accept working with a bunch of guys who are lousy at their job.

If I was Holland, I have a job, a good job. Maybe not exactly the job I want but it's a good job, pays me well. I am in a City I am extremely comfortable with, my family is happy to live there, I am with an organization I know extremely well, that treats me like a King and I am comfortable with. So when the Oilers come calling, I am telling them I am not leaving all that unless I am allowed to surround myself with my people. I could be 100% wrong but if I was in his shoes, even if I was buddies with Nicholson and a few others, no way I make that move. I am not coming here to tarnish my legacy and potentially make myself look like an idiot by taking a job that has no chance of succeeding if all the same people are allowed to stay.

I get you guys think I stick up for Oilers no matter what but I am not. I am just looking at this like a business guy would. I wouldn't leave a situation I am comfortable with to take a job where sure maybe I got a raise but baring a miracle, probably doesn't go well if you aren't allowed to make changes.

[Updated on: Mon, 06 May 2019 11:01]

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Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737134 is a reply to message #737131 ]	Mon, 06 May 2019 11:10

Adam
Messages: 6813
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:58

Adam wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:35

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:30

I would have liked to have been able to pick more people to be fired in the poll.

It's pretty rare that you're allowed to fire UP. Vice-Chairs out-rank General Managers I'm afraid.

What if he is the Pres of Hockey ops and GM, then can he?

I have said it a few times. I don't know if he is the right guy. I didn't think he was coming because I didn't see the upside for him and leaving the City and organization you have been with for over 30 yrs and uprooting your entire life at 63 would be extremely hard. I saw a tweet yesterday that before he could say yes, he had to meet Marian Illitch, the wife of his dead boss in person to tell her he was leaving and I assume say sorry for leaving and hug it out. I don't see him doing all that to come in and be a puppet and happily accept working with a bunch of guys who are lousy at their job.

If I was Holland, I have a job, a good job. Maybe not exactly the job I want but it's a good job, pays me well. I am in a City I am extremely comfortable with, my family is happy to live there, I am with an organization I know extremely well, that treats me like a King and I am comfortable with. So when the Oilers come calling, I am telling them I am not leaving all that unless I am allowed to surround myself with my people. I could be 100% wrong but if I was in his shoes, even if I was buddies with Nicholson and a few others, no way I make that move. I am not coming here to tarnish my legacy and potentially make myself look like an idiot by taking a job that has no chance of succeeding if all the same people are allowed to stay.

I get you guys think I stick up for Oilers no matter what but I am not. I am just looking at this like a business guy would. I wouldn't leave a situation I am comfortable with to take a job where sure maybe I got a raise but baring a miracle, probably doesn't go well if you aren't allowed to make changes.

The guys hiring him are the ones you want fired. And they're his buddies. And he's being paid a ton of money to come here. And they've promised him free wine.

I will be shocked if there's much of anyone let go here. And even if they are, I think you'll have to watch to see if they actually leave. Remember, we've fired MacTavish and Howson before, but like a zombie movie, they just keep coming back.

Honestly, we should just count ourselves lucky if they don't hire back Buchberger.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737137 is a reply to message #737131 ]	Mon, 06 May 2019 11:27

Magnum
Messages: 839
Registered: June 2009
Location: Rogers' Arena > Banff

No Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:58

Adam wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:35

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:30

I would have liked to have been able to pick more people to be fired in the poll.

It's pretty rare that you're allowed to fire UP. Vice-Chairs out-rank General Managers I'm afraid.

What if he is the Pres of Hockey ops and GM, then can he?

I have said it a few times. I don't know if he is the right guy. I didn't think he was coming because I didn't see the upside for him and leaving the City and organization you have been with for over 30 yrs and uprooting your entire life at 63 would be extremely hard. I saw a tweet yesterday that before he could say yes, he had to meet Marian Illitch, the wife of his dead boss in person to tell her he was leaving and I assume say sorry for leaving and hug it out. I don't see him doing all that to come in and be a puppet and happily accept working with a bunch of guys who are lousy at their job.

If I was Holland, I have a job, a good job. Maybe not exactly the job I want but it's a good job, pays me well. I am in a City I am extremely comfortable with, my family is happy to live there, I am with an organization I know extremely well, that treats me like a King and I am comfortable with. So when the Oilers come calling, I am telling them I am not leaving all that unless I am allowed to surround myself with my people. I could be 100% wrong but if I was in his shoes, even if I was buddies with Nicholson and a few others, no way I make that move. I am not coming here to tarnish my legacy and potentially make myself look like an idiot by taking a job that has no chance of succeeding if all the same people are allowed to stay.

I get you guys think I stick up for Oilers no matter what but I am not. I am just looking at this like a business guy would. I wouldn't leave a situation I am comfortable with to take a job where sure maybe I got a raise but baring a miracle, probably doesn't go well if you aren't allowed to make changes.

Reasons to leave:

$25 Million.
Detroit is not a nice city. Edmonton is nicer.
Few people who were first in command, want to be second in command.

Reasons to go:

I agree, he might actually have free reign of the entire org. If he does, awesome. If he doesn't, then the team might as well have stayed with Chia or Keith.

2015/2016 - This Kool-Aid tastes like McDavid flavoured Drain-O.
2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.
2017/2018 - I'm drinking this Kool-Aid, in hopes that it's Drain-O.
2018/2019 - Another round of Drain-O, good sir!

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Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737138 is a reply to message #737085 ]	Mon, 06 May 2019 11:27

Jay
Messages: 237
Registered: January 2007
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

clutchlikeeberle wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 03:45

As I sit back and laugh at the insane comments here I cannot but wonder who could the Oilers have hired that would not get dissed. Minus Stevie Y of course. No one.....it is a wonder no one wants to play in Canada. You guys are insane man .....

LOL - Yeah "Canada" is totally the problem with this org.

My favourite posts are the ones that complain about how people complain to much.

"Initiative comes to thems that wait"

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Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737141 is a reply to message #737137 ]	Mon, 06 May 2019 11:44

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3698
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Magnum wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 11:27

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:58

Adam wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:35

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:30

I would have liked to have been able to pick more people to be fired in the poll.

It's pretty rare that you're allowed to fire UP. Vice-Chairs out-rank General Managers I'm afraid.

What if he is the Pres of Hockey ops and GM, then can he?

I have said it a few times. I don't know if he is the right guy. I didn't think he was coming because I didn't see the upside for him and leaving the City and organization you have been with for over 30 yrs and uprooting your entire life at 63 would be extremely hard. I saw a tweet yesterday that before he could say yes, he had to meet Marian Illitch, the wife of his dead boss in person to tell her he was leaving and I assume say sorry for leaving and hug it out. I don't see him doing all that to come in and be a puppet and happily accept working with a bunch of guys who are lousy at their job.

If I was Holland, I have a job, a good job. Maybe not exactly the job I want but it's a good job, pays me well. I am in a City I am extremely comfortable with, my family is happy to live there, I am with an organization I know extremely well, that treats me like a King and I am comfortable with. So when the Oilers come calling, I am telling them I am not leaving all that unless I am allowed to surround myself with my people. I could be 100% wrong but if I was in his shoes, even if I was buddies with Nicholson and a few others, no way I make that move. I am not coming here to tarnish my legacy and potentially make myself look like an idiot by taking a job that has no chance of succeeding if all the same people are allowed to stay.

I get you guys think I stick up for Oilers no matter what but I am not. I am just looking at this like a business guy would. I wouldn't leave a situation I am comfortable with to take a job where sure maybe I got a raise but baring a miracle, probably doesn't go well if you aren't allowed to make changes.

Reasons to leave:

$25 Million.
Detroit is not a nice city. Edmonton is nicer.
Few people who were first in command, want to be second in command.

Reasons to go:

I agree, he might actually have free reign of the entire org. If he does, awesome. If he doesn't, then the team might as well have stayed with Chia or Keith.

I agree with you. If you are just going to keep everyone, then it would have just been easier to keep Keith Gretzky. Part of me thinks they would have gone that way but they knew Edmonton would go nuclear which they should. This might shock people but I would have freaked out if they just hired Gretzky and kept everyone.

Where I differ from Adam when I talk about the organization and who to fire. I know he would like to see the Oilers go scorched earth. As in Katz is the owner and no one is left. This includes Wayne who personally I think is just the Oilers Ambassador but they gave him a VP title because it sounds better. When I say I think Holland will be allowed to fire/bring in his own people. I am talking the day to day guys. I don't see a scenario where Holland takes the job and he's told who is staff is. He's Pres & GM and then Nicholson tells him his right hand men are Howson, Mac T & Sutter.

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Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737142 is a reply to message #737138 ]	Mon, 06 May 2019 11:47

Magnum
Messages: 839
Registered: June 2009
Location: Rogers' Arena > Banff

No Cups

Jay wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 11:27

clutchlikeeberle wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 03:45

As I sit back and laugh at the insane comments here I cannot but wonder who could the Oilers have hired that would not get dissed. Minus Stevie Y of course. No one.....it is a wonder no one wants to play in Canada. You guys are insane man .....

LOL - Yeah "Canada" is totally the problem with this org.

My favourite posts are the ones that complain about how people complain to much.

What about people who complain about those who are complaining about complaining? Three levels of complaining! Can there be a fourth?

2015/2016 - This Kool-Aid tastes like McDavid flavoured Drain-O.
2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.
2017/2018 - I'm drinking this Kool-Aid, in hopes that it's Drain-O.
2018/2019 - Another round of Drain-O, good sir!

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Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737143 is a reply to message #737134 ]	Mon, 06 May 2019 11:48

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3698
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Adam wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 11:10

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:58

Adam wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:35

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:30

I would have liked to have been able to pick more people to be fired in the poll.

It's pretty rare that you're allowed to fire UP. Vice-Chairs out-rank General Managers I'm afraid.

What if he is the Pres of Hockey ops and GM, then can he?

I have said it a few times. I don't know if he is the right guy. I didn't think he was coming because I didn't see the upside for him and leaving the City and organization you have been with for over 30 yrs and uprooting your entire life at 63 would be extremely hard. I saw a tweet yesterday that before he could say yes, he had to meet Marian Illitch, the wife of his dead boss in person to tell her he was leaving and I assume say sorry for leaving and hug it out. I don't see him doing all that to come in and be a puppet and happily accept working with a bunch of guys who are lousy at their job.

If I was Holland, I have a job, a good job. Maybe not exactly the job I want but it's a good job, pays me well. I am in a City I am extremely comfortable with, my family is happy to live there, I am with an organization I know extremely well, that treats me like a King and I am comfortable with. So when the Oilers come calling, I am telling them I am not leaving all that unless I am allowed to surround myself with my people. I could be 100% wrong but if I was in his shoes, even if I was buddies with Nicholson and a few others, no way I make that move. I am not coming here to tarnish my legacy and potentially make myself look like an idiot by taking a job that has no chance of succeeding if all the same people are allowed to stay.

I get you guys think I stick up for Oilers no matter what but I am not. I am just looking at this like a business guy would. I wouldn't leave a situation I am comfortable with to take a job where sure maybe I got a raise but baring a miracle, probably doesn't go well if you aren't allowed to make changes.

The guys hiring him are the ones you want fired. And they're his buddies. And he's being paid a ton of money to come here. And they've promised him free wine.

I will be shocked if there's much of anyone let go here. And even if they are, I think you'll have to watch to see if they actually leave. Remember, we've fired MacTavish and Howson before, but like a zombie movie, they just keep coming back.

Honestly, we should just count ourselves lucky if they don't hire back Buchberger.

Obviously we differ in what we think will happen. I don't see Wayne who's basically the Oilers ambassador with a nicer title getting fired. I don't expect Klowe to get fired either. But I am talking the day to day guys. The guys doing most of the work. I don't see Holland coming here and being told "here are your right hand men".

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Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737144 is a reply to message #737143 ]	Mon, 06 May 2019 12:07

nullterm
Messages: 926
Registered: July 2007
Location: Port Moody, BC

No Cups

Outside of TSN, no one is reporting anything officially. Wonder if there's some internal matters that need to be settle before they have the official press conference. Not even shill Stauffer has peeped anything yet.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737145 is a reply to message #737142 ]	Mon, 06 May 2019 12:14

mightyreasoner
Messages: 508
Registered: October 2005
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

Magnum wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 11:47

Jay wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 11:27

clutchlikeeberle wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 03:45

As I sit back and laugh at the insane comments here I cannot but wonder who could the Oilers have hired that would not get dissed. Minus Stevie Y of course. No one.....it is a wonder no one wants to play in Canada. You guys are insane man .....

LOL - Yeah "Canada" is totally the problem with this org.

My favourite posts are the ones that complain about how people complain to much.

What about people who complain about those who are complaining about complaining? Three levels of complaining! Can there be a fourth?

Tier 2 Complainer. Gonna go get t-shirts made.

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Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737146 is a reply to message #737114 ]	Mon, 06 May 2019 12:27

Goose
Messages: 1098
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver

1 Cup

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 09:25

So what do you base your comment on he didn't get an interview? Do you work for the Oilers? Were you part of the hiring team? I saw your same comment tweeted by an Oilers blogger. Doesn't work for the team, just another Oilers blogger who apparently has "contacts".

You're correct, I don't work for the Oilers, nor was I a part of the hiring team.

I'm basing it on the fact that every single step of this process has played out in the open, including who was on the Oilers list every step of the way (and Holland often wasn't included), the fact that Mark Hunter got two interviews, and details of Holland's contract offer before he even accepted it, but I had not read anything suggesting that Holland had been interviewed, or even received serious consideration up until a few days ago.

Now, do I think the Oilers called Holland and asked him a few questions before offering him the position? I think that's entirely possible. Do I think that they actually put him through a hiring process commensurate with running a $100M business? Not for a second.

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737147 is a reply to message #737146 ]	Mon, 06 May 2019 12:37

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3698
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Goose wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 12:27

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 09:25

So what do you base your comment on he didn't get an interview? Do you work for the Oilers? Were you part of the hiring team? I saw your same comment tweeted by an Oilers blogger. Doesn't work for the team, just another Oilers blogger who apparently has "contacts".

You're correct, I don't work for the Oilers, nor was I a part of the hiring team.

I'm basing it on the fact that every single step of this process has played out in the open, including who was on the Oilers list every step of the way (and Holland often wasn't included), the fact that Mark Hunter got two interviews, and details of Holland's contract offer before he even accepted it, but I had not read anything suggesting that Holland had been interviewed, or even received serious consideration up until a few days ago.

Now, do I think the Oilers called Holland and asked him a few questions before offering him the position? I think that's entirely possible. Do I think that they actually put him through a hiring process commensurate with running a $100M business? Not for a second.

I think the Oilers leak whatever information they want to leak. So I think they leaked some of their candidates. I also think that there were other people they interviewed that we don't know about. Supposedly Holland before he said yes, had to go meet Marian Illitch, the wife of his dead boss to tell her personally that he was leaving. They probably had a cry and hugged it out. So if Holland felt the need to tell an 86 yr old woman he was leaving before he said yes, do you think he would want it leaked out what so EVER that he got interviewed? I have no clue if it happened but is it completely impossible they interviewed him and it didn't get out?

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Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737148 is a reply to message #737147 ]	Mon, 06 May 2019 12:46

Goose
Messages: 1098
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver

1 Cup

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 11:37

Goose wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 12:27

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 09:25

So what do you base your comment on he didn't get an interview? Do you work for the Oilers? Were you part of the hiring team? I saw your same comment tweeted by an Oilers blogger. Doesn't work for the team, just another Oilers blogger who apparently has "contacts".

You're correct, I don't work for the Oilers, nor was I a part of the hiring team.

I'm basing it on the fact that every single step of this process has played out in the open, including who was on the Oilers list every step of the way (and Holland often wasn't included), the fact that Mark Hunter got two interviews, and details of Holland's contract offer before he even accepted it, but I had not read anything suggesting that Holland had been interviewed, or even received serious consideration up until a few days ago.

Now, do I think the Oilers called Holland and asked him a few questions before offering him the position? I think that's entirely possible. Do I think that they actually put him through a hiring process commensurate with running a $100M business? Not for a second.

I think the Oilers leak whatever information they want to leak. So I think they leaked some of their candidates. I also think that there were other people they interviewed that we don't know about. Supposedly Holland before he said yes, had to go meet Marian Illitch, the wife of his dead boss to tell her personally that he was leaving. They probably had a cry and hugged it out. So if Holland felt the need to tell an 86 yr old woman he was leaving before he said yes, do you think he would want it leaked out what so EVER that he got interviewed? I have no clue if it happened but is it completely impossible they interviewed him and it didn't get out?

Holland has been under contract with the Red Wings the whole time. The Oilers need to get permission from the team to talk to him, so there's no ability to keep this secret from the Illitch's.

Rishaug tweeted this out 6 days ago:

Quote:

@TSNRyanRishaug: Ken Holland is not an option for the Oilers at this point and no permission has been sought from Det. to speak with him. No change from @DarrenDreger
report last week, Holland is not on the short list of candidates for the job as of now.

https://twitter.com/TSNRyanRishaug/status/112295964343141171 2

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737150 is a reply to message #737148 ]	Mon, 06 May 2019 13:03

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3698
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Goose wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 12:46

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 11:37

Goose wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 12:27

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 09:25

So what do you base your comment on he didn't get an interview? Do you work for the Oilers? Were you part of the hiring team? I saw your same comment tweeted by an Oilers blogger. Doesn't work for the team, just another Oilers blogger who apparently has "contacts".

You're correct, I don't work for the Oilers, nor was I a part of the hiring team.

I'm basing it on the fact that every single step of this process has played out in the open, including who was on the Oilers list every step of the way (and Holland often wasn't included), the fact that Mark Hunter got two interviews, and details of Holland's contract offer before he even accepted it, but I had not read anything suggesting that Holland had been interviewed, or even received serious consideration up until a few days ago.

Now, do I think the Oilers called Holland and asked him a few questions before offering him the position? I think that's entirely possible. Do I think that they actually put him through a hiring process commensurate with running a $100M business? Not for a second.

I think the Oilers leak whatever information they want to leak. So I think they leaked some of their candidates. I also think that there were other people they interviewed that we don't know about. Supposedly Holland before he said yes, had to go meet Marian Illitch, the wife of his dead boss to tell her personally that he was leaving. They probably had a cry and hugged it out. So if Holland felt the need to tell an 86 yr old woman he was leaving before he said yes, do you think he would want it leaked out what so EVER that he got interviewed? I have no clue if it happened but is it completely impossible they interviewed him and it didn't get out?

Holland has been under contract with the Red Wings the whole time. The Oilers need to get permission from the team to talk to him, so there's no ability to keep this secret from the Illitch's.

Rishaug tweeted this out 6 days ago:

Quote:

@TSNRyanRishaug: Ken Holland is not an option for the Oilers at this point and no permission has been sought from Det. to speak with him. No change from @DarrenDreger
report last week, Holland is not on the short list of candidates for the job as of now.

https://twitter.com/TSNRyanRishaug/status/112295964343141171 2

Come on man, you don't think guys get talked to before the team gets permission? I have read multiple people say that Nicholson talked to Holland numerous times during the process to pick his brain about things. You don't think the Oilers situation and what he would do came up ever? Even if it wasn't an "official interview". I read an article this morning from a link I saw on Twitter. I will try to find it. Supposedly Nicholson offered Holland a job a while ago to be a bit hire up but Holland said he wanted to be a GM. They didn't have permission to talk to him.

In an interview with Holland, do you have to go over his experience? No.
Do you have to go over if he's qualified like you would any first time GM? No.
Are you having to do a reference check on if he can be an NHL GM? No.

So what's left. You would talk about what he wants to do with the Oilers.

I will put it another way. McCrimmon was the "sexy" pick and before Holland became available, he was just about the lock to get the Oilers job based on what all the hockey people were saying. The Oilers never got official permission to interview him but you can't tell me that McCrimmon didn't have conversations with the Oilers and basically get interviewed and then he went to Vegas and said "I want to be a GM, I have a legit chance to get the Oilers job, promote me or I am leaving." Surprise surprise he gets promoted. So maybe Holland didn't get flown into Edmonton, sit down in the Oilers offices and get formally interviewed. But no one is going to tell me he didn't get unofficially interviewed over a span of many weeks. As I have said, I am not saying I think HOlland was the right guy. I literally don't know right now but the whole notion that all teams just follow the rules to the letter, never talk to anyone before they have permission is BS to me.

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Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737151 is a reply to message #737141 ]	Mon, 06 May 2019 13:04

Adam
Messages: 6813
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 11:44

Magnum wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 11:27

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:58

Adam wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:35

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:30

I would have liked to have been able to pick more people to be fired in the poll.

It's pretty rare that you're allowed to fire UP. Vice-Chairs out-rank General Managers I'm afraid.

What if he is the Pres of Hockey ops and GM, then can he?

I have said it a few times. I don't know if he is the right guy. I didn't think he was coming because I didn't see the upside for him and leaving the City and organization you have been with for over 30 yrs and uprooting your entire life at 63 would be extremely hard. I saw a tweet yesterday that before he could say yes, he had to meet Marian Illitch, the wife of his dead boss in person to tell her he was leaving and I assume say sorry for leaving and hug it out. I don't see him doing all that to come in and be a puppet and happily accept working with a bunch of guys who are lousy at their job.

If I was Holland, I have a job, a good job. Maybe not exactly the job I want but it's a good job, pays me well. I am in a City I am extremely comfortable with, my family is happy to live there, I am with an organization I know extremely well, that treats me like a King and I am comfortable with. So when the Oilers come calling, I am telling them I am not leaving all that unless I am allowed to surround myself with my people. I could be 100% wrong but if I was in his shoes, even if I was buddies with Nicholson and a few others, no way I make that move. I am not coming here to tarnish my legacy and potentially make myself look like an idiot by taking a job that has no chance of succeeding if all the same people are allowed to stay.

I get you guys think I stick up for Oilers no matter what but I am not. I am just looking at this like a business guy would. I wouldn't leave a situation I am comfortable with to take a job where sure maybe I got a raise but baring a miracle, probably doesn't go well if you aren't allowed to make changes.

Reasons to leave:

$25 Million.
Detroit is not a nice city. Edmonton is nicer.
Few people who were first in command, want to be second in command.

Reasons to go:

I agree, he might actually have free reign of the entire org. If he does, awesome. If he doesn't, then the team might as well have stayed with Chia or Keith.

I agree with you. If you are just going to keep everyone, then it would have just been easier to keep Keith Gretzky. Part of me thinks they would have gone that way but they knew Edmonton would go nuclear which they should. This might shock people but I would have freaked out if they just hired Gretzky and kept everyone.

Where I differ from Adam when I talk about the organization and who to fire. I know he would like to see the Oilers go scorched earth. As in Katz is the owner and no one is left. This includes Wayne who personally I think is just the Oilers Ambassador but they gave him a VP title because it sounds better. When I say I think Holland will be allowed to fire/bring in his own people. I am talking the day to day guys. I don't see a scenario where Holland takes the job and he's told who is staff is. He's Pres & GM and then Nicholson tells him his right hand men are Howson, Mac T & Sutter.

Whoa whoa whoa...let's not get crazy here. No one has told him he has to keep Sutter! If a Sutter firing is enough to impress you with his unbridled autonomy then you may be pleasantly surprised. It's possible they let Holland make a deeper cut than that too...Dustin Schwartz could get axed too!

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737152 is a reply to message #737151 ]	Mon, 06 May 2019 13:07

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3698
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Adam wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 13:04

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 11:44

Magnum wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 11:27

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:58

Adam wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:35

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:30

I would have liked to have been able to pick more people to be fired in the poll.

It's pretty rare that you're allowed to fire UP. Vice-Chairs out-rank General Managers I'm afraid.

What if he is the Pres of Hockey ops and GM, then can he?

I have said it a few times. I don't know if he is the right guy. I didn't think he was coming because I didn't see the upside for him and leaving the City and organization you have been with for over 30 yrs and uprooting your entire life at 63 would be extremely hard. I saw a tweet yesterday that before he could say yes, he had to meet Marian Illitch, the wife of his dead boss in person to tell her he was leaving and I assume say sorry for leaving and hug it out. I don't see him doing all that to come in and be a puppet and happily accept working with a bunch of guys who are lousy at their job.

If I was Holland, I have a job, a good job. Maybe not exactly the job I want but it's a good job, pays me well. I am in a City I am extremely comfortable with, my family is happy to live there, I am with an organization I know extremely well, that treats me like a King and I am comfortable with. So when the Oilers come calling, I am telling them I am not leaving all that unless I am allowed to surround myself with my people. I could be 100% wrong but if I was in his shoes, even if I was buddies with Nicholson and a few others, no way I make that move. I am not coming here to tarnish my legacy and potentially make myself look like an idiot by taking a job that has no chance of succeeding if all the same people are allowed to stay.

I get you guys think I stick up for Oilers no matter what but I am not. I am just looking at this like a business guy would. I wouldn't leave a situation I am comfortable with to take a job where sure maybe I got a raise but baring a miracle, probably doesn't go well if you aren't allowed to make changes.

Reasons to leave:

$25 Million.
Detroit is not a nice city. Edmonton is nicer.
Few people who were first in command, want to be second in command.

Reasons to go:

I agree, he might actually have free reign of the entire org. If he does, awesome. If he doesn't, then the team might as well have stayed with Chia or Keith.

I agree with you. If you are just going to keep everyone, then it would have just been easier to keep Keith Gretzky. Part of me thinks they would have gone that way but they knew Edmonton would go nuclear which they should. This might shock people but I would have freaked out if they just hired Gretzky and kept everyone.

Where I differ from Adam when I talk about the organization and who to fire. I know he would like to see the Oilers go scorched earth. As in Katz is the owner and no one is left. This includes Wayne who personally I think is just the Oilers Ambassador but they gave him a VP title because it sounds better. When I say I think Holland will be allowed to fire/bring in his own people. I am talking the day to day guys. I don't see a scenario where Holland takes the job and he's told who is staff is. He's Pres & GM and then Nicholson tells him his right hand men are Howson, Mac T & Sutter.

Whoa whoa whoa...let's not get crazy here. No one has told him he has to keep Sutter! If a Sutter firing is enough to impress you with his unbridled autonomy then you may be pleasantly surprised. It's possible they let Holland make a deeper cut than that too...Dustin Schwartz could get axed too!

Thanks for putting words in my mouth again. I appreciate it.

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Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737153 is a reply to message #737115 ]	Mon, 06 May 2019 13:26

welcometotheOC
Messages: 613
Registered: April 2010
Location: Also, sadly, Cowtown

No Cups

I know he's not popular around here... but with all due respect, Ken Hitchcock would be the definition of someone who started at the bottom and worked his way up (obviously not with the Oilers because he is near the end of his career, but his whole career post-United Cycle - even during his United Cycle days - has been about working and earning his way up the ladder).

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Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737155 is a reply to message #737037 ]	Mon, 06 May 2019 13:43

K.McC#24
Messages: 2826
Registered: March 2004
Location: ALBERTA

2 Cups

I didn't hear much in terms of objection when the last GM was hired, and we know how that turned out.

Here's a guy who's had some success, albeit under different circumstances and era. Let's face it though, every GM will experience different circumstances under a different organization.

I'm neutral. I'll pass judgement after a couple seasons. I don't really give a s**t what a guy did prior to joining this organization, other than having relevant experience, when it comes down it. I just want him to do a good job for THIS organization, and avoid the litany of gaffes that marked the PChiarelli era. I think you put a monkey in the GM chair this last season and have him throw darts at choices PC was faced with before he made his decisions, and the overall outcomes are better than Peter's. I think Ken Holland has a decent chance if he can cut Chiarelli's failure rate in half....and I think that's pretty much a default.

We can pine away for the whole front office of OBC to be run out of there, but for me, at least, the realization is that those guys aren't going to go anywhere. Sure there's no good reason for them to be there, but I'm no longer going to waste an iota of personal aggravation or a millisecond of time typing an opinion that they should be, or reading anyone's rants to that effect....while respecting that ranting is therapeutic, and adding the caveat that I may have to go there myself at some point.

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Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737158 is a reply to message #737150 ]	Mon, 06 May 2019 13:58

Goose
Messages: 1098
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver

1 Cup

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 12:03

Come on man, you don't think guys get talked to before the team gets permission? I have read multiple people say that Nicholson talked to Holland numerous times during the process to pick his brain about things. You don't think the Oilers situation and what he would do came up ever? Even if it wasn't an "official interview". I read an article this morning from a link I saw on Twitter. I will try to find it. Supposedly Nicholson offered Holland a job a while ago to be a bit hire up but Holland said he wanted to be a GM. They didn't have permission to talk to him.

In an interview with Holland, do you have to go over his experience? No.
Do you have to go over if he's qualified like you would any first time GM? No.
Are you having to do a reference check on if he can be an NHL GM? No.

So what's left. You would talk about what he wants to do with the Oilers.

I will put it another way. McCrimmon was the "sexy" pick and before Holland became available, he was just about the lock to get the Oilers job based on what all the hockey people were saying. The Oilers never got official permission to interview him but you can't tell me that McCrimmon didn't have conversations with the Oilers and basically get interviewed and then he went to Vegas and said "I want to be a GM, I have a legit chance to get the Oilers job, promote me or I am leaving." Surprise surprise he gets promoted. So maybe Holland didn't get flown into Edmonton, sit down in the Oilers offices and get formally interviewed. But no one is going to tell me he didn't get unofficially interviewed over a span of many weeks. As I have said, I am not saying I think HOlland was the right guy. I literally don't know right now but the whole notion that all teams just follow the rules to the letter, never talk to anyone before they have permission is BS to me.

So just to be clear, I speculate that the Oilers didn't interview Holland, because no one was reporting about it and it's pretty much on par with how the Oilers always do things, and I'm being an irrational conspiracy theorist. But then to prove your point, you make up an entire scenario about what happened between McCrimmon and the Oilers and Vegas, pretty much out of whole cloth?

From Ken Campbell at The Hockey News:

Quote:

This time was supposed to be different. And for a while, it actually was. The Edmonton Oilers canvassed the hockey world for candidates to fill their vacant GM position. They talked to people around the league, compiled a comprehensive list of names and did their research on each of them, extensively interviewed them and got their input on everything from how to get the Oilers out of a cap hell to their top coaching candidates. One person who was interviewed said he spoke with Oilers president Bob Nicholson for six hours and came away impressed with how well prepared Nicholson was and how much he had done his homework.

So then what did Nicholson and the Oilers do? After all that work, they went out and threw $5 million a year on a five-year contract at Ken Holland, a guy who wasn’t even interviewed and whom Nicholson has a relationship from his time at Hockey Canada. For a franchise trying to shake the old-boy network image, it was a curious way to go about things.

https://thehockeynews.com/news/article/both-the-oilers-and-k en-holland-are-taking-a-big-gamble

But let's put that aside, because at the end of the day, you're correct and neither of us know what the actual process was.

I actually agree with you that the Oilers probably called up Holland at some point (maybe even before they asked for permission to talk to him). But they're about to pay this guy $25M and let him run, with full autonomy apparently, a $100M business, and you don't think they should be asking him about his experience?

I would want a detailed breakdown of just about every move he's made in the last 5 years. Specifically, what his thought process was in giving long deals, with no-move clauses to guys in or approaching their 30's like Abdelkader, Nielsen, Helm, and Kronwall.

And in terms of what he wants to do with the Oilers, I'm not looking for platitudes or talking points. I would want a detailed breakdown of what he thinks the Oilers have done wrong and what he thinks they've done well and how he plans on fixing this mess.

I haven't seen any indication that any of that stuff happened. As close as 6 days ago, no one was reporting that Holland was a serious contender for the Oilers job, mainly because it didn't appear like he wanted it. Then, within a day or 2, all of a sudden he's their guy and a $25M offer is on the table and we're just waiting for Holland to accept it or not? Does that honestly sound to you like a robust process was followed?

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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