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 Oilers » McDavid not named as a Hart Trophy Finalist
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 McDavid not named as a Hart Trophy Finalist [message #714031]
Fri, 27 April 2018 17:55 Go to next message
WhoreableGuy  is currently offline WhoreableGuy
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https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/taylor-hall-anze-kopitar -nathan-mackinnon-voted-hart-trophy-finalists/

Hall, Kopitar, MacKinnon.

Those guys are much more important to their team than McDavid, got their respective teams to the Playoffs. All three managed a total of THREE playoff wins.



"Bah Gawd! Would somebody stop the damn draft!"

- Jim Ross calling the NHL Draft Lotto 2015 as the Oilers win

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 Re: McDavid not named as a Hart Trophy Finalist [message #714032 is a reply to message #714031 ]
Fri, 27 April 2018 18:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Greg  is currently offline Greg
Messages: 75
Registered: October 2006

No Cups

What a joke. I hope one of these years McDavid carries this team to a cup and gives these idiots the middle finger.


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 Re: McDavid not named as a Hart Trophy Finalist [message #714033 is a reply to message #714031 ]
Fri, 27 April 2018 18:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently online Kr55
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WhoreableGuy wrote on Fri, 27 April 2018 17:55

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/taylor-hall-anze-kopitar -nathan-mackinnon-voted-hart-trophy-finalists/

Hall, Kopitar, MacKinnon.

Those guys are much more important to their team than McDavid, got their respective teams to the Playoffs. All three managed a total of THREE playoff wins.


This is really McDavid's fault no matter how you look at it. If he would have sucked it up and played 40 minutes a night, he might have had a shot. DIdn't want to put in the effort though.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: McDavid not named as a Hart Trophy Finalist [message #714036 is a reply to message #714031 ]
Fri, 27 April 2018 19:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose is currently online Goose
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WhoreableGuy wrote on Fri, 27 April 2018 16:55

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/taylor-hall-anze-kopitar -nathan-mackinnon-voted-hart-trophy-finalists/

Hall, Kopitar, MacKinnon.

Those guys are much more important to their team than McDavid, got their respective teams to the Playoffs. All three managed a total of THREE playoff wins.


Just one more piece of evidence that the PHWA is a complete and utter disaster.



Wins in a row the Oilers need to get to playoff pace: infinity
games!!

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 Re: McDavid not named as a Hart Trophy Finalist [message #714041 is a reply to message #714031 ]
Fri, 27 April 2018 20:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
overdue  is currently offline overdue
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Where does it say there has to be a playoff berth for nomination as a candidate? Total bullcrappy, McDavid is hands down the mvp to his team. Oilers would have finished below Buffalo without him.


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 Re: McDavid not named as a Hart Trophy Finalist [message #714042 is a reply to message #714041 ]
Fri, 27 April 2018 21:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Let’s not blame the hockey writers for this aggressions omission, they’re dumb. We know where the blame lies - management. Those guys need to give McDavid a team worthy of a Hart candidate.


Peter Chiarelli, General Disappointment.

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 Re: McDavid not named as a Hart Trophy Finalist [message #714043 is a reply to message #714042 ]
Fri, 27 April 2018 22:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently online Kr55
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CrusaderPi wrote on Fri, 27 April 2018 21:20

Let’s not blame the hockey writers for this aggressions omission, they’re dumb. We know where the blame lies - management. Those guys need to give McDavid a team worthy of a Hart candidate.


They're both dumb.

Plenty of stats and data available to calculate a players relative value. McDavid blows away the field, consistently, from pretty much any angle you look. Just using your eyeballs and a TV would have been sufficient as well.

[Updated on: Fri, 27 April 2018 22:08]


"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: McDavid not named as a Hart Trophy Finalist [message #714044 is a reply to message #714031 ]
Sat, 28 April 2018 01:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260  is currently offline smyth260
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I like how Giroux's team scrapes into the playoffs, and he is second in league scoring. Not a finalist. Kucherov in third? Not a finalist.

The definition is be the only good player on your team that barely makes the playoffs.



How could one doubt the braintrust of 6 Cups Kevin Lowe, MacT's E-MBA from Queens, Paul Coffey's skills coach resume, and drunk Gretzky?

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 Re: McDavid not named as a Hart Trophy Finalist [message #714046 is a reply to message #714031 ]
Sat, 28 April 2018 03:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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The "hockey writers" just revealed the how little the thoughts they put in to their votes actually mean anything. Many of them invented a voting criteria in order to justify their personal bias, never has "being on a playoff team" been a criteria for selection, it makes even less sense today, since by doing so you dismiss 50% of the players by that one criteria alone.

Sometimes when egos and feelings of self-importance get inflated to a certain size, people often feel compelled to over think simple decisions, their reason being that simple decisions are for the simple of mind.



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 Re: McDavid not named as a Hart Trophy Finalist [message #714049 is a reply to message #714031 ]
Sat, 28 April 2018 10:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
philly boy  is currently offline philly boy
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Another example of how stupid hockey culture and thought process is, at all levels. I don’t understand how these people can be so dumb. I mean they (the “writers” and “journalists”) are literally stupid. There is no logical explanation for this, but not that it even requires a logical explanation. It’s just stupid and wrong. And blatantly wrong at that.

I’m a hair away from checking out as a fan of the NHL altogether.



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 Re: McDavid not named as a Hart Trophy Finalist [message #714050 is a reply to message #714049 ]
Sat, 28 April 2018 10:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently online Kr55
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philly boy wrote on Sat, 28 April 2018 10:19

Another example of how stupid hockey culture and thought process is, at all levels. I don’t understand how these people can be so dumb. I mean they (the “writers” and “journalists”) are literally stupid. There is no logical explanation for this, but not that it even requires a logical explanation. It’s just stupid and wrong. And blatantly wrong at that.

I’m a hair away from checking out as a fan of the NHL altogether.


Apparently there was another player we could have swapped McDavid with and made the playoffs. His name is Kolag The Destroyer. He comes from another planet and can play 60 minutes a game and scores 250 points a season. Good on faceoffs too.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: McDavid not named as a Hart Trophy Finalist [message #714052 is a reply to message #714050 ]
Sat, 28 April 2018 10:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
philly boy  is currently offline philly boy
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Thanks for the laugh pal.

I really want to like the pro game, but it’s getting hard! Lol.

Hopefully this WPG-NSH series will make me forget my hockey miseries for awhile.

[Updated on: Sat, 28 April 2018 10:35]


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 Re: McDavid not named as a Hart Trophy Finalist [message #714055 is a reply to message #714043 ]
Sat, 28 April 2018 14:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Kr55 wrote on Fri, 27 April 2018 22:01

CrusaderPi wrote on Fri, 27 April 2018 21:20

Let’s not blame the hockey writers for this aggressions omission, they’re dumb. We know where the blame lies - management. Those guys need to give McDavid a team worthy of a Hart candidate.


They're both dumb.

Plenty of stats and data available to calculate a players relative value. McDavid blows away the field, consistently, from pretty much any angle you look. Just using your eyeballs and a TV would have been sufficient as well.


I don’t mind the argument that making the playoffs matters somewhat. If it’s relative value to your team, it does suggest that the team’s relative importance could be considered.

I’m going to guess it’s a really split field and we will see first place votes for McDavid, Kucherov, Giroux and others that didn’t make the final cut.

It is pretty disgraceful that the Oilers weren’t even close to the playoffs so I can understand the writers holding it against McDavid. I also think there’s likely a feeling among some of them that McDavid is going to win a bunch of these anyhow so it isn’t so bad to slight him.



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 Re: McDavid not named as a Hart Trophy Finalist [message #714063 is a reply to message #714046 ]
Sat, 28 April 2018 17:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne  is currently offline PlusOne
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Skookum Jim wrote on Sat, 28 April 2018 03:01

The "hockey writers" just revealed the how little the thoughts they put in to their votes actually mean anything. Many of them invented a voting criteria in order to justify their personal bias, never has "being on a playoff team" been a criteria for selection, it makes even less sense today, since by doing so you dismiss 50% of the players by that one criteria alone.

Sometimes when egos and feelings of self-importance get inflated to a certain size, people often feel compelled to over think simple decisions, their reason being that simple decisions are for the simple of mind.


In fairness to the current voters they didn't invent anything for personal bias against McDavid. I found these numbers in a post on HF as I couldnt remember them but they are either right or close as they are the same as what I heard on TSN;
- Since 1967 expansion, 6 out of 150 Hart Trophy finalists did not make the playoffs.
- Since the Hart Trophy was introduced in 1923, 12 players have won the Art Ross Trophy and not qualified for the postseason. That's 12 out of 94 seasons, which makes winning the Art Ross Trophy and missing the playoffs a rare event.
- 24.5% of all scoring champions since 1923-24 did not place Top 3 in Hart Trophy voting in their respective seasons.

Now, this doesn't excuse the writers if you believe that McDavid should have won, but this isn't a new phenomenon.




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 Re: McDavid not named as a Hart Trophy Finalist [message #714098 is a reply to message #714052 ]
Mon, 30 April 2018 08:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jay  is currently offline Jay
Messages: 961
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Location: Edmonton

No Cups

Must be another seed planted in 97s mind that Edmonton is not the place for him.

Once he demands a trade he will get the recognition he deserves as well as playoff success. Also it might just be the one thing that will convince Edmonton Oilers fans to wake up and stop supporting this management clown show.

Do it Connor!



"Initiative comes to thems that wait"

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 Re: McDavid not named as a Hart Trophy Finalist [message #714101 is a reply to message #714098 ]
Mon, 30 April 2018 09:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Who gets to vote on the Hart trophy is a joke. Media guys should not be allowed to vote because they are bias. It should be a combination of managers, coaches and players, the guys actually in the game. I have no doubt in my mind that if Auston Matthews won the scoring title but the Leafs missed the playoff, Matthews would be one of the finalist because the Eastern media would make sure to put him in there.

When it comes to McDavid, if a person wants to punish him for the woes of the team and makes the case that he shouldn't win because the Oilers didn't make the playoffs, then fine. But there is not a chance in hell he shouldn't be nominated. Kopitar had an excellent year but is he more important to his team than Doughty? Doughty had 60 pts, was a +23 and played just under 27 mins a night. In my opinion, Doughty was probably a little more important to the Kings than Kopitar based on his numbers and how much he plays. But in saying all of this, I am not upset. If the voters want to punish McDavid for something that isn't his fault, go ahead, piss him off. He will torch them all next year because of it.



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 Re: McDavid not named as a Hart Trophy Finalist [message #714103 is a reply to message #714101 ]
Mon, 30 April 2018 09:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 30 April 2018 09:03

Media guys should not be allowed to vote because they are bias.

Hehe. I agree completely. You also shouldn't listen to them when deciding who to vote for. Wait, this is the Oilers Forum?



Peter Chiarelli, General Disappointment.

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 Re: McDavid not named as a Hart Trophy Finalist [message #714104 is a reply to message #714031 ]
Mon, 30 April 2018 09:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
K.McC#24  is currently offline K.McC#24
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I'd say McKinnon for the Hart, given the nominees. To McDavid, although this would be a great honor, it's secondary hardware. He should be a shoe-in for the Ted Lindsay.

The trophies he wants are the Stanley and probably the Conn Smythe.

I don't think 130 pts is out of the realm of possibility for next year, with an average PP.

After a taste of the postseason last year, these playoffs suck.



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 Re: McDavid not named as a Hart Trophy Finalist [message #714105 is a reply to message #714101 ]
Mon, 30 April 2018 10:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 30 April 2018 09:03

Who gets to vote on the Hart trophy is a joke. Media guys should not be allowed to vote because they are bias. It should be a combination of managers, coaches and players, the guys actually in the game. I have no doubt in my mind that if Auston Matthews won the scoring title but the Leafs missed the playoff, Matthews would be one of the finalist because the Eastern media would make sure to put him in there.

When it comes to McDavid, if a person wants to punish him for the woes of the team and makes the case that he shouldn't win because the Oilers didn't make the playoffs, then fine. But there is not a chance in hell he shouldn't be nominated. Kopitar had an excellent year but is he more important to his team than Doughty? Doughty had 60 pts, was a +23 and played just under 27 mins a night. In my opinion, Doughty was probably a little more important to the Kings than Kopitar based on his numbers and how much he plays. But in saying all of this, I am not upset. If the voters want to punish McDavid for something that isn't his fault, go ahead, piss him off. He will torch them all next year because of it.


I'm fine with the media voting. Theoretically, they should be paying a lot of attention to a lot of hockey games. As long as you have approximately an even number in each market, then it shouldn't be overly skewed to Toronto. I don't know who gets PHWA membership or how you qualify, so it may be totally unbalanced, but it doesn't need to be (although Spector is apparently the president, so it probably IS a joke).

We have the Ted Lindsay award for the player vote on MVP and it looks like they got it more right than the hockey writers, but at the end of the day, it doesn't matter that much. McDavid is going to finish fourth or fifth in voting for Hart, with lots of support from many quarters - even out East. The award gives no guidance really on how you weigh "most valuable" so you're going to occasionally see things like this.

Honestly, people are too worked up about this. I totally understand the logic behind putting him lower on the ballot this year.

The only one I really object to is Wyshynski's argument that McDavid scored "garbage time" points. That's an inane position to me. He was still playing against teams trying to make the playoffs and he was dominant. Without him this year, the Oilers would have been Buffalo.



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 Re: McDavid not named as a Hart Trophy Finalist [message #714116 is a reply to message #714105 ]
Mon, 30 April 2018 11:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
overdue  is currently offline overdue
Messages: 237
Registered: October 2014
Location: Creston

No Cups

They were meaning full games to most of the teams they played and the game plan for the opposition, going in no matter who they're playing is to try to contain McDaivid with the best checkers they have every single night. I'm sure the other candidates get special attention too but with Conner it's magnified.


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 Re: McDavid not named as a Hart Trophy Finalist [message #714118 is a reply to message #714105 ]
Mon, 30 April 2018 12:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently online Kr55
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Adam wrote on Mon, 30 April 2018 10:03

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 30 April 2018 09:03

Who gets to vote on the Hart trophy is a joke. Media guys should not be allowed to vote because they are bias. It should be a combination of managers, coaches and players, the guys actually in the game. I have no doubt in my mind that if Auston Matthews won the scoring title but the Leafs missed the playoff, Matthews would be one of the finalist because the Eastern media would make sure to put him in there.

When it comes to McDavid, if a person wants to punish him for the woes of the team and makes the case that he shouldn't win because the Oilers didn't make the playoffs, then fine. But there is not a chance in hell he shouldn't be nominated. Kopitar had an excellent year but is he more important to his team than Doughty? Doughty had 60 pts, was a +23 and played just under 27 mins a night. In my opinion, Doughty was probably a little more important to the Kings than Kopitar based on his numbers and how much he plays. But in saying all of this, I am not upset. If the voters want to punish McDavid for something that isn't his fault, go ahead, piss him off. He will torch them all next year because of it.


I'm fine with the media voting. Theoretically, they should be paying a lot of attention to a lot of hockey games. As long as you have approximately an even number in each market, then it shouldn't be overly skewed to Toronto. I don't know who gets PHWA membership or how you qualify, so it may be totally unbalanced, but it doesn't need to be (although Spector is apparently the president, so it probably IS a joke).

We have the Ted Lindsay award for the player vote on MVP and it looks like they got it more right than the hockey writers, but at the end of the day, it doesn't matter that much. McDavid is going to finish fourth or fifth in voting for Hart, with lots of support from many quarters - even out East. The award gives no guidance really on how you weigh "most valuable" so you're going to occasionally see things like this.

Honestly, people are too worked up about this. I totally understand the logic behind putting him lower on the ballot this year.

The only one I really object to is Wyshynski's argument that McDavid scored "garbage time" points. That's an inane position to me. He was still playing against teams trying to make the playoffs and he was dominant. Without him this year, the Oilers would have been Buffalo.


Wyshynski fully subscribes to the idea that a player is providing no value if his team is bad when he's sitting on the bench. Lots of other voters feel the same.

I don't think it's wrong to point out to these guys that their opinions are garbage. This award is getting lame now. The sweet spot is to be a great player on a mediocre team. Rest of your team can't be too good or too bad now or you are disqualified. Congrats to the 3 finalists on getting wasted in the 1st round.

[Updated on: Mon, 30 April 2018 12:12]


"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: McDavid not named as a Hart Trophy Finalist [message #714137 is a reply to message #714104 ]
Mon, 30 April 2018 16:34 Go to previous message
Magnum  is currently offline Magnum
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2 Cups

Makes Chia look worse.

Small victory.



2015/2016 - This Kool-Aid tastes like McDavid flavoured Drain-O.

2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.

2017/2018 - I'm drinking this Kool-Aid hoping it's Drain-O.

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