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 Speculation » Edmonton's Rebuild Versus Calgary's Rebuild
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 Edmonton's Rebuild Versus Calgary's Rebuild [message #609506]
Sat, 12 October 2013 01:25 Go to next message
NCREDiBLE  is currently offline NCREDiBLE
Messages: 1369
Registered: February 2007
Location: Fort McMurray

1 Cup

We have been rebuilding since 2006.. 7 years and counting. Have had 3 top picks.
Calgary had Kippersoff retire, never received anything for him, they also traded Bouwmeester & the face of the franchise, Jerome Iginla for pretty much nothing.
Calgary was supposed to be horrible.. already they are 3-0-2, that's a point in each game they have played.

They have absolutely nothing for star players besides Cammalleri.
We have Hall, Nuge, Perron, Yakupov, Schultz etc.
They brought in Brian Burke, which is a smart move in my opinion.
We brought in Messier, which is a move I like as well but am unsure what they have planned for him yet. Advisor yes, but who is he going to replace? Mac T?
Monahan is fitting in perfect right off the start, as was Nurse but we are taking the smart road with him, I'll give us that.

So what gives? I hate watching Calgary do so well, with absolutely all nobodies on that team while we struggle with many offensive players.

This was supposed to be year one of their long struggle.

I really hope this bold move Mac T has improves our defense in a big way because this is getting horrible.

Obviously every Edmonton fan understands we need more grit and physical players to add to the stars we have. We need more guys who went out like Joensuu against the Jets but every game, some more Perron's and we need the defense upgraded much better.. Goal is questionable as well.. Dubnyk played much better against mtl but so many weak goals too often.



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 Re: Edmonton's Rebuild Versus Calgary's Rebuild [message #609507 is a reply to message #609506 ]
Sat, 12 October 2013 02:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
6zeppelin6  is currently offline 6zeppelin6
Messages: 1208
Registered: May 2006

1 Cup

Its important to remember its been a small sample size and that we are adjusting to a new coaches system. Don't get me wrong, if at the end of the year Cgy is a head of the Oilers I will be first in line with a pitchfork and torch. But something tells me them winning is not going to last, and same goes for the Oilers losing (I hope).

As I believe someone mentioned on here, the Oil started 2010 4-0 and went on to finish dead last. I remember Khabbie's undefeated streak for however many games he played lights out and we still finish bottom 3 in the NHL. It will all even out eventually and the crap will sink to the bottom and hopefully, the Oil shall rise.

I for one its just an adjustment to a new coach, new players, new systems and the pressure on them to win.



HOPE

http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/3882/signuz.jpg

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 Re: Edmonton's Rebuild Versus Calgary's Rebuild [message #609509 is a reply to message #609506 ]
Sat, 12 October 2013 04:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
Messages: 2977
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

2 Cups

Calgary plays a physical game, we don't, #pureandsimple.
The game is half skill, half effort, effort is measured in all things physical.

Nurse is an example of both.
Hard pressed to find that in the rest of the starting roster.



Keep on Rockin' in the Free World

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 Re: Edmonton's Rebuild Versus Calgary's Rebuild [message #609510 is a reply to message #609506 ]
Sat, 12 October 2013 04:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oilertime  is currently offline Oilertime
Messages: 892
Registered: October 1999
Location: Fort Saskatchewan

No Cups

Remember when the Oilers were in 1st place after a month two years ago? How'd that work out?


https://twitter.com/Reggie__11

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 Re: Edmonton's Rebuild Versus Calgary's Rebuild [message #609511 is a reply to message #609510 ]
Sat, 12 October 2013 07:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
feepa  is currently offline feepa
Messages: 1266
Registered: November 2002
Location: Edmonton

1 Cup

Oilers started 4-0-0 one year and the rebuild certainly didn't start after 2006. The latest rebuild started when we traded smyth away

OP has been hanging out with flames fans far too long drinking their red coloured koolaid



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 Re: Edmonton's Rebuild Versus Calgary's Rebuild [message #609512 is a reply to message #609511 ]
Sat, 12 October 2013 08:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NCREDiBLE  is currently offline NCREDiBLE
Messages: 1369
Registered: February 2007
Location: Fort McMurray

1 Cup

feepa wrote on Sat, 12 October 2013 07:39

Oilers started 4-0-0 one year and the rebuild certainly didn't start after 2006. The latest rebuild started when we traded smyth away

OP has been hanging out with flames fans far too long drinking their red coloured koolaid


Oh no, I dislike Calgary a lot but I despise Vancouver.
I'm all for a good battle of Alberta.

I'm just bringing up the topic for same of discussion.



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 Re: Edmonton's Rebuild Versus Calgary's Rebuild [message #609529 is a reply to message #609510 ]
Sat, 12 October 2013 10:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 3817
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

3 Cups

Oilertime wrote on Sat, 12 October 2013 04:51

Remember when the Oilers were in 1st place after a month two years ago? How'd that work out?


It worked out in accordance with the grand master plan!

http://wpmedia.blogs.edmontonjournal.com/2008/07/lowe_3.jpg

Think we will have to be patient and wait and hope for the flamers team to falter. Might not end up happening. Worse teams have had decent seasons in the past with good coaching and a little luck. No way they make the playoffs but it is not that hard to fathom them finishing the season above us in the standings if our team doesn't get it together.



A little tidbit to make everyone feel worse about our chances:

@EdmontonJack
Eakins told Will Acton to find a place to live a few days ago. Says he "just won't go away."

[Updated on: Sat, 12 October 2013 13:05]


..talk is cheap
..success is coming
..the game that we present and stage for the fans most nights is one of very, very high entertainment
..limitless potential
..good structural improvement

Eakins: I know EXACTLY what we need to do next year...

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 Re: Edmonton's Rebuild Versus Calgary's Rebuild [message #609530 is a reply to message #609512 ]
Sat, 12 October 2013 10:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oilfanforever!!  is currently offline Oilfanforever!!
Messages: 1138
Registered: July 2006
Location: Calgary

1 Cup

Never underestimate a team like the Flames who have nothing to lose...nobody gives them even a snowball's chance so they just go out and play hockey with no expectations whatsoever.

The Oilers on the other hand are gripping their sticks really really tight and trying to learn a new system and the results are showing.

(Plus Kevin Lowe has looong worn out his welcome in Oil Country, he just doesn't know it and his legacy in this team will be felt for years!!! How very Pocklington and Ballard-esque of you Kevin!!)

It is very early and I too suspect the Flames will cool while the Oilers, once Gags is back especially will start to improve...the only question is how much? Are they a playoff team? My money says no :(

In my opinion the team is still fundamentally flawed and MacT crucially missed the boat on our top 2 needs in the off season...top 1-2 dman and top centreman.

Ference is a nice add but not a top 2 dman in any way despite what mgmt wants you to think and our top 6 is way too small still and a big, gritty, scrappy centreman is what this team needs, not a combo of RNH and Gags.

At the time finishing ahead of the Flames in the standings was a bit of a coup but looking back it's the difference between having Nurse or Monahan!! (I know who I'd choose, and I like Nurse ALOT!!)

Just my 2 cents!! confused2

[Updated on: Sat, 12 October 2013 10:31]


"I hope that went well. ... that's the team I want to go to..." -Taylor Hall.

...asked if he was excited for the draft to be over, Yakupov said: "It's not over. It's just starting."

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 Re: Edmonton's Rebuild Versus Calgary's Rebuild [message #609535 is a reply to message #609510 ]
Sat, 12 October 2013 12:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bigEfromGP  is currently offline bigEfromGP
Messages: 2284
Registered: July 2006
Location: GP, AB

2 Cups

Oilertime wrote on Sat, 12 October 2013 04:51

Remember when the Oilers were in 1st place after a month two years ago? How'd that work out?


Exactly. I am getting grief left, right and center from Flames fans, and I just tell them that, as a fan of the Oilers who has seen them be at the top of the league 3 weeks in to picking a first overall pick by season's end, enjoy your early success.

Also, not too long ago, NJ was garbage for the first half of the season, and then turned it around, and was the best team in the league for the second half, making the playoffs. So, while the Oilers have shown little to get excited about so far, its important to remind ourselves how early this season is, that the roster had a pretty big turnover, we haven't had our 2 first line centers, and the players are learning yet another system due to our annual coaching change.

If we haven't seen improvement in a month's time, then we can start to hover our finger over the panic button.



oilerinvan should never leave Oilfans.

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 Re: Edmonton's Rebuild Versus Calgary's Rebuild [message #609536 is a reply to message #609509 ]
Sat, 12 October 2013 13:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm  is currently offline nullterm
Messages: 7688
Registered: July 2007
Location: Port Moody, BC

6 Cups

Skookum Jim wrote on Sat, 12 October 2013 03:30

Calgary plays a physical game, we don't, #pureandsimple.
The game is half skill, half effort, effort is measured in all things physical.

Nurse is an example of both.
Hard pressed to find that in the rest of the starting roster.


This. We might be one of the highest skill teams, but our work ethic is one of the worst for an NHL team. And skill alone can always be outworked.

Except one final period so far, this is a group of individuals. They are not playing as a team by supporting each other.

And skilled players that try to do too much because they think they can. Everytime Hall fails on a toe drag guarentee my palm is on my face.



Illegitimi non carborundum.

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 Re: Edmonton's Rebuild Versus Calgary's Rebuild [message #609651 is a reply to message #609506 ]
Sat, 12 October 2013 20:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
K.McC#24  is currently offline K.McC#24
Messages: 2598
Registered: March 2004
Location: ALBERTA

2 Cups

NCREDiBLE wrote on Sat, 12 October 2013 01:25

We have been rebuilding since 2006.. 7 years and counting. Have had 3 top picks.
Calgary had Kippersoff retire, never received anything for him, they also traded Bouwmeester & the face of the franchise, Jerome Iginla for pretty much nothing.
Calgary was supposed to be horrible.. already they are 3-0-2, that's a point in each game they have played.

They have absolutely nothing for star players besides Cammalleri.
We have Hall, Nuge, Perron, Yakupov, Schultz etc.
They brought in Brian Burke, which is a smart move in my opinion.
We brought in Messier, which is a move I like as well but am unsure what they have planned for him yet. Advisor yes, but who is he going to replace? Mac T?
Monahan is fitting in perfect right off the start, as was Nurse but we are taking the smart road with him, I'll give us that.

So what gives? I hate watching Calgary do so well, with absolutely all nobodies on that team while we struggle with many offensive players.

This was supposed to be year one of their long struggle.

I really hope this bold move Mac T has improves our defense in a big way because this is getting horrible.

Obviously every Edmonton fan understands we need more grit and physical players to add to the stars we have. We need more guys who went out like Joensuu against the Jets but every game, some more Perron's and we need the defense upgraded much better.. Goal is questionable as well.. Dubnyk played much better against mtl but so many weak goals too often.


Not saying Edmonton's rebuild is anywhere near success, but if I had to bet, I'd say Calgary gets coached up to a 5th/6th place finish in the Pacific, out of a lottery position.....similar to the Iggy/Kipper era. I'll take it.



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 Re: Edmonton's Rebuild Versus Calgary's Rebuild [message #609687 is a reply to message #609530 ]
Sun, 13 October 2013 09:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mars  is currently offline Mars
Messages: 795
Registered: February 2013
Location: Rockies

No Cups

Oilfanforever!! wrote on Sat, 12 October 2013 10:28

Never underestimate a team like the Flames who have nothing to lose...nobody gives them even a snowball's chance so they just go out and play hockey with no expectations whatsoever.

The Oilers on the other hand are gripping their sticks really really tight and trying to learn a new system and the results are showing.

(Plus Kevin Lowe has looong worn out his welcome in Oil Country, he just doesn't know it and his legacy in this team will be felt for years!!! How very Pocklington and Ballard-esque of you Kevin!!)

It is very early and I too suspect the Flames will cool while the Oilers, once Gags is back especially will start to improve...the only question is how much? Are they a playoff team? My money says no :(

In my opinion the team is still fundamentally flawed and MacT crucially missed the boat on our top 2 needs in the off season...top 1-2 dman and top centreman.

Ference is a nice add but not a top 2 dman in any way despite what mgmt wants you to think and our top 6 is way too small still and a big, gritty, scrappy centreman is what this team needs, not a combo of RNH and Gags.

At the time finishing ahead of the Flames in the standings was a bit of a coup but looking back it's the difference between having Nurse or Monahan!! (I know who I'd choose, and I like Nurse ALOT!!)

Just my 2 cents!! confused2


The bolded part is where I think you are wrong. I think there are high expectations on the Flames, from inside the locker room and from the organization. In little time they have built a culture of expecting a high degree of commitment, of playing the system, of skating hard, of playing hard and taking the play to the opposition. Sure the fans and pundits have no expectations, but I wonder if inside the team they have higher expectations than the Oilers?

For the record, the Flames won't keep up their early season success. I believe they are surprising teams with how quick and hard they play. I doubt this continues.



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 Re: Edmonton's Rebuild Versus Calgary's Rebuild [message #609700 is a reply to message #609651 ]
Sun, 13 October 2013 10:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oilerman53  is currently offline Oilerman53
Messages: 935
Registered: September 2007
Location: LLoyd

No Cups

Calgary is playing with emotion and fire right now and they have zero expectations. They are a dangerous bunch of guys on a nightly basis, I dont know why Edmonton plays like a bunch of pansies every night? There is little to now physicality on each shift, too many guys just skate by a check rather then finishing it. Two guys who have been a revelation are Perron and Gordon, Perron almost always finishes his check and Gordon is a machine on the dot.

The pieces are finally coming together its just a matter of finding that edge as a whole team. Horcoff as captain had him showing his team that checking wasnt required during the game, I dont wanna blame Horc for anything but his skate by everyone style of play trickles through this lineup. Back in the 90's when the Oilers were struggling financially and werent able to keep guys lile Weight and Guerin. They combined that size with speed and played with some serious edge, they may have not had the money to buy the skill but their edge and checking more then made up for what they lacked. Hell even guys like Lindgren and Murray were out there throwing hits and right now I'd rather take that team over the one we have right now. Too many pansies up and down this lineup.



After 8 years of ineptitude you begin to wonder whose the real schmuck? Them for sucking or me for cheering....... *cracks open bottle of whiskey*.

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 Re: Edmonton's Rebuild Versus Calgary's Rebuild [message #609713 is a reply to message #609700 ]
Sun, 13 October 2013 15:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
K.McC#24  is currently offline K.McC#24
Messages: 2598
Registered: March 2004
Location: ALBERTA

2 Cups

Oilerman53 wrote on Sun, 13 October 2013 10:22

Calgary is playing with emotion and fire right now and they have zero expectations. They are a dangerous bunch of guys on a nightly basis, I dont know why Edmonton plays like a bunch of pansies every night? There is little to now physicality on each shift, too many guys just skate by a check rather then finishing it. Two guys who have been a revelation are Perron and Gordon, Perron almost always finishes his check and Gordon is a machine on the dot.

The pieces are finally coming together its just a matter of finding that edge as a whole team. Horcoff as captain had him showing his team that checking wasnt required during the game, I dont wanna blame Horc for anything but his skate by everyone style of play trickles through this lineup. Back in the 90's when the Oilers were struggling financially and werent able to keep guys lile Weight and Guerin. They combined that size with speed and played with some serious edge, they may have not had the money to buy the skill but their edge and checking more then made up for what they lacked. Hell even guys like Lindgren and Murray were out there throwing hits and right now I'd rather take that team over the one we have right now. Too many pansies up and down this lineup.


I think there's a bit of that in Hall's game...without the puck. He's fearless with the puck and a bit timid for my liking without it. I don't know if Hall was coached how to bodycheck coming up, or whether he wasn't listening in practice or what....but to me there's only a couple real holes in Hall's game and this is one of them.



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 Re: Edmonton's Rebuild Versus Calgary's Rebuild [message #610883 is a reply to message #609713 ]
Sun, 20 October 2013 18:38 Go to previous message
Magnum  is currently offline Magnum
Messages: 4411
Registered: June 2009
Location: In a Prism of Frustration

4 Cups

I think that this site could be renamed "Toilfans". I mean, it's clearly the case.


Learning is the most important part of learning basic defence.

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