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 SV%+ [message #609235]
Thu, 10 October 2013 09:15 Go to next message
hmc  is currently offline hmc
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This is especially relevant considering the current thread on the greatest goalie (honestly, I don't even know how Brodeur is even in the discussion, let alone winning the poll), but hockey-reference has just added SV%+, which is pretty cool. It works the same way as something like ERA+ in baseball, but if you're not familiar with it, it's a stat that's normalized over eras, with 100 being the baseline, or "average" for any given season. So anything over 100 is good, anything under is below average. Here's a link to last year's numbers:

http://www.hockey-reference.com/leagues/NHL_2013_goalies.htm l#stats::15

It doesn't look like they have a career number for each goalie yet, but it's fun to compare Brodeur's and Roy's…

Here's a longer explanation of the stat, if anyone's interested: http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2012/7/21/3021129/evaluatin g-goalies-in-context-adjusted-save-percentage-or-sv



Then I'll just regress, because I feel I've made myself perfectly redundant.

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 Re: SV%+ [message #609238 is a reply to message #609235 ]
Thu, 10 October 2013 09:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OilPeg  is currently offline OilPeg
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This is also relevant in the Dubnyk conversation...according to this, if i'm reading it correctly, Dubnyk was the 16th best goalie in the league last year. Reimer was 10th and our new backup, Labarbera was 9th....

16th isn't awesome, but the way people are acting, you'd think he'd have been well below the 100 mark.



Skookum Jim wrote on Sat, 02 June 2012 00:29

But he (Belanger)'s as soft as room temp. margarine.

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 Re: SV%+ [message #609239 is a reply to message #609235 ]
Thu, 10 October 2013 09:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Magnum  is currently offline Magnum
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Pretty good method/calculation he goes through, very interesting.

I thought there was a flaw, then I read it again... I think it's pretty tight.



Learning is the most important part of learning basic defence.

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 Re: SV%+ [message #609264 is a reply to message #609235 ]
Thu, 10 October 2013 13:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
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1 Cup

hmc wrote on Thu, 10 October 2013 08:15

(honestly, I don't even know how Brodeur is even in the discussion, let alone winning the poll)


This is cool, thanks for sharing.

But in terms of Brodeur (and I voted for Hasek in the poll), he's in the conversation due to the fact that he's the NHL leader in career wins, shutouts and games played. 3 Stanley Cups and 4 Vezinas. And to be fair the numbers he put up in those 3 Cup wins are pretty impressive (Save % of: .927, .927, .934).

And I get the argument that wins are a product of team play. But winning matters. It always has, especially in the playoffs. It's the reason Marcel Dionne is never discussed among the greatest NHL players of all time.





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 Re: SV%+ [message #609266 is a reply to message #609264 ]
Thu, 10 October 2013 13:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Goose wrote on Thu, 10 October 2013 13:42

But winning matters. It always has, especially in the playoffs. It's the reason Marcel Dionne is never discussed among the greatest NHL players of all time.



There's probably an argument to be made that Dionne is horrifically underrated. Right up with Ron Francis as one of the most underrated players of all-time.



#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireEakins #FireActon #FireSmith #FireBuchberger #FireMoores #Burnitdown #KeepJoey

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 Re: SV%+ [message #609274 is a reply to message #609266 ]
Thu, 10 October 2013 14:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
benv is currently online benv
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Adam wrote on Thu, 10 October 2013 13:49

Goose wrote on Thu, 10 October 2013 13:42

But winning matters. It always has, especially in the playoffs. It's the reason Marcel Dionne is never discussed among the greatest NHL players of all time.



There's probably an argument to be made that Dionne is horrifically underrated. Right up with Ron Francis as one of the most underrated players of all-time.


When I did the "best player by draft" polls on this forum last year, both Dionne and Francis won their respective years; Dionne beat out "winners" Lafleur and Robinson, while Francis beat out "winners" Fuhr, Chelios and MacInnis (and "non-winner" Hawerchuk).

When I listed the players, I just put up their "boxscore" stats (if voters wanted more info they had to dig for it themselves) and Dionne and Francis were clearly better from that metric. I wonder if that biased the voting a bit.

Edit: Now that I think about it, Francis won two cups which is one more than MacInnis and only one less than Chelios. I'm not sure why I was thinking of Francis as a "non-winner". Must have been all that time in Hartford.

[Updated on: Thu, 10 October 2013 14:49]


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 Re: SV%+ [message #609275 is a reply to message #609266 ]
Thu, 10 October 2013 14:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
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Adam wrote on Thu, 10 October 2013 12:49


There's probably an argument to be made that Dionne is horrifically underrated. Right up with Ron Francis as one of the most underrated players of all-time.


I would agree with that argument. And maybe I'm contradicting myself here in that I do think we put too much emphasis on winning and championships, but I don't think it's irrelevant.

Perhaps Brodeur benefitted from playing in New Jersey and in that system. And it's easy to say that another goalie that didn't win any championships, say Roberto Luongo, would have done just as well as Brodeur if he had been in that situation. But we don't know. All we know is that Brodeur won more than any other goalie in the league in the regular season (and 3 championships).



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 Re: SV%+ [message #609282 is a reply to message #609264 ]
Thu, 10 October 2013 15:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Magnum  is currently offline Magnum
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4 Cups

Goose wrote on Thu, 10 October 2013 13:42

hmc wrote on Thu, 10 October 2013 08:15

(honestly, I don't even know how Brodeur is even in the discussion, let alone winning the poll)


But in terms of Brodeur (and I voted for Hasek in the poll), he's in the conversation due to the fact that he's the NHL leader in career wins, shutouts and games played. 3 Stanley Cups and 4 Vezinas. And to be fair the numbers he put up in those 3 Cup wins are pretty impressive (Save % of: .927, .927, .934).





Being great when it counts is better than being good all the time. This is one of the factors that isn't measured in ADV Stats, and I hate it.




Learning is the most important part of learning basic defence.

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 Re: SV%+ [message #609288 is a reply to message #609264 ]
Thu, 10 October 2013 15:56 Go to previous message
hmc  is currently offline hmc
Messages: 4054
Registered: May 2008
Location: Toronto

4 Cups

Goose wrote on Thu, 10 October 2013 15:42

hmc wrote on Thu, 10 October 2013 08:15

(honestly, I don't even know how Brodeur is even in the discussion, let alone winning the poll)


This is cool, thanks for sharing.

But in terms of Brodeur (and I voted for Hasek in the poll), he's in the conversation due to the fact that he's the NHL leader in career wins, shutouts and games played. 3 Stanley Cups and 4 Vezinas. And to be fair the numbers he put up in those 3 Cup wins are pretty impressive (Save % of: .927, .927, .934).

And I get the argument that wins are a product of team play. But winning matters. It always has, especially in the playoffs. It's the reason Marcel Dionne is never discussed among the greatest NHL players of all time.


Yeah, he's in the conversation. I was exaggerating a little - but he's definitely 3rd in my books. I think Roy and Hasek are clearly superior, but I do see the argument.



Then I'll just regress, because I feel I've made myself perfectly redundant.

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