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 Re: touchstone [message #344753 is a reply to message #344610 ]
Fri, 02 March 2007 08:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
MJ is currently offline MJ
Messages: 2861
Registered: November 1997
Location: Edmonton
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Bryanbryoil wrote on Thu, 01 March 2007 21:18

I'm glad that you find humour in this, as IMO the credibility that you have built up over the years by providing us with this great site has just been crapped on. The only positive out of all of this is that it likely brought more traffic to the board. Out-side of that IMO this is a black-eye for this site, and in a way calling you foolish in allowing him to manipulate you into doing his bidding by banning his adversaries and allowing him to spew his BS. You're the man, MJ, but IMO this is a direct slap in your face. It only matters what you feel as you are the man here, and if you're cool with it then fine. That would make you a better man than me.


I don't see how touchstone has killed any credibility I bring to the site. Nor do I really see that it brought down the name OilFans since none of touchstone's rumours got reported as the news thankfully. A rumour board is just that. touchstone was as harmful as Eklund. I think Eklund has proven to the entire media world that he is only for entertainment purposes... any rumours should be just for that.

Unfortunately we not only wasted our time, but the rumours spread further enough at times that it wasted other sites and other medias' time. I sincerely apologize to wasting peoples' time at HF and the Team 1260, for example.

What was funny is odd-time touchstone would come out with posts that would come close to or match what other rumour mongers or media insiders were saying. Some were off the wall. It certainly gives everyone here a bit of a lesson, but be damned if I'd ever know how to solve a similar problem in the future. I stopped some early Pronger rumours more than a year ago on this site, so I had to go with a more free system. Those Pronger rumours I kiboshed are probably just as bad with my mishandling of touchstone. In fact if the Pronger situation didn't happen, I dare say my mind would not have been open to anything touchstone had to say.

touchstone got super lucky and given the climate and attitude on rumours I was forced to take after ridding of early Pronger-wants-to-go murmurs, I wasn't going to halt anyone.

Sometimes humour is the best way to deal with it. Thus far you seem the only one really disgusted by it. Can't please everyone and to be honest, I'm happy that most of the members are still rallying about OilFans and our experience.

I cannot name one ban that resulted because of touchstone as has been stated. If anyone was outed because of their responses to a touchstone thread, I will stand by the fact that they would be offenders against anyone on here. If your first reaction to anyone is to start the flames of insult, you are probably not OilFan material. One member in particular decided to poopoo on each and every rumour thread -- touchstone or not. That's not going to fly here, even though it is distinctly possible this board will be a lot more quiet next season.

I took touchstone at face value, like I take anyone with "sources" on here with face value. Sadly, touchstone is the first sources guy that was completely duping us. I can validate the accounts of at least 4 other people that are in the know because of their occupations, whether people here people it or not.

Call me naive and I'll say yes. Don't really have a choice about that. There were guys in my ear saying he was full of it, including true insiders, but it generated discussion and from time-to-time was just close enough to plausible. If anyone thought I really liked it, well I was stuck on the fence post pretty much through it all. I think what really threw things outta kilter was the crazy 4 transaction post. By then, I say it was easier to slip us a bit of extra bs as the rumour mill was drying up fast and we were desperate to hear ANYTHING.

Did I feel angry and stupid when I first read touchstone's post? Yes. And here I thought the Ryan Smyth trade would be the only thing to bring forth strong emotion this week. Like the Ryan Smyth trade, I breathed, walked away, wiped the egg off my face and came back with a fresh perspective.

touchstone filled a demand that the site needed. People wanted to hear rumours to shoot down or at least talk about. I swear some people lived to see touchstone's next rumour just for something to do between games.

I'm not sure when is the last time I spent nearly half an hour putting a post together. But that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Have you ever waited for something for so long that the waiting becomes the something?

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 Re: touchstone [message #344761 is a reply to message #344205 ]
Fri, 02 March 2007 08:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
MJ is currently offline MJ
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At the very least, I will never need to read a PM or talk to someone face-to-face about touchstone. Puts a hot issue on this site to rest. This is why I started the thread in the first place. I never imagined it would also trigger touchstone to come clean.

What is hilarious... two members and good friends both mentioned to me as the deadline was approaching the Shakespearean reference to his nickname. Kudos to both spOILer and feepa. feepa told me just shy of 11:30 on deadline day. I was busy enough with the deadline that I wasn't going to really do much at that point.

2/27/2007 11:26:10 AM MJ lol I hear oilfans on the team so often, it's like a casual word
2/27/2007 11:26:32 AM all we're getting fame for is as they constantly disspell touchstone's ******** 22/5
2/27/2007 11:28:15 AM Matt Touchstone's name says it all. Hes naming himself after a movie production company that is owned by Disney I believe.
2/27/2007 11:28:41 AM MJ haha
2/27/2007 11:29:25 AM Matt ahh yes, I was correct... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touchstone_Pictures
2/27/2007 11:29:43 AM MJ haha
2/27/2007 11:30:16 AM Matt even funnier - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touchstone
2/27/2007 11:30:32 AM Matt has he choosen that name symbolically?


Have you ever waited for something for so long that the waiting becomes the something?

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 Re: touchstone [message #344764 is a reply to message #344205 ]
Fri, 02 March 2007 08:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
MJ is currently offline MJ
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Another PS. If touchstone let me in on his "experiment" he would have been shown the door. Unfortunate that he forced us to become lab mice.

Have you ever waited for something for so long that the waiting becomes the something?

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 Re: touchstone [message #344773 is a reply to message #344753 ]
Fri, 02 March 2007 08:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
s-insider is currently offline s-insider
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I got to say that the guy didn't make anyone or anything look foolish except those who puit faith in him. If the experiment even exists, the end result is the same. It's just a bunch of anonymous people sharing rumours, if a person doesn't take the name at the top of the Rumours forum as a disclaimer, shame on them.

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 Re: touchstone [message #344795 is a reply to message #344764 ]
Fri, 02 March 2007 10:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oilerdiehard is currently offline Oilerdiehard
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MJ wrote on Fri, 02 March 2007 10:29

Another PS. If touchstone let me in on his "experiment" he would have been shown the door. Unfortunate that he forced us to become lab mice.


Agree with everything you are saying. I am glad you have this forum anyway, I have enjoyed coming in here and reading all of this stuff. It does get some great debate going. In some ways Touchstone was merely regurgitating what a lot of media and rumour sites came up with first. For example the Pronger to Florida, Cujo coming here, Pitkanen etc... mostly copycat stuff really.

Anyway, I hope you keep this forum going regardless. It is a lot of fun and most posters coming here bring a large grain salt tucked under their arms.

"Eye On The Prize"

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 Re: The rule for all should be... [message #344869 is a reply to message #344353 ]
Fri, 02 March 2007 13:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kamoil is currently offline kamoil
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WOW!!!

it's like the end of "the prestige!"

i feel like i'm in a movie.

"Nice place, that Calgary--if you like gay cowboys." - Jay Mohr

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 Re: touchstone [message #344872 is a reply to message #344795 ]
Fri, 02 March 2007 13:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kamoil is currently offline kamoil
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someone copy and paste this whole thread into the "hall of fame posts" in ot, if it hasn't already been done.

wow. that was amazing reading. if what he's saying is true, that's unreal!

"Nice place, that Calgary--if you like gay cowboys." - Jay Mohr

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 Re: touchstone [message #344876 is a reply to message #344872 ]
Fri, 02 March 2007 14:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
MJ is currently offline MJ
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It'll forever be on this forum... one of those I flag not to delete. Makes sense.

Have you ever waited for something for so long that the waiting becomes the something?

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 Re: touchstone [message #344883 is a reply to message #344205 ]
Fri, 02 March 2007 14:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hemmerhockey is currently offline hemmerhockey
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Anybody need lube? Well done, touchstone, well done.

"I've been trying to tell you people for so long about the Russians, what kind of people they are, and you just love them in Canada with your multiculturalism. They're quitters and evidently they take a lot of drugs, too."

-Don Cherry

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 Re: touchstone [message #344886 is a reply to message #344883 ]
Fri, 02 March 2007 14:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Souther is currently offline Souther
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so you managed to prove that alot of people on the internet can be guilliable..
and you played this out for over a year and thought about what you were going to write next and what crazy things you could come up with that would make the sheep follow you..

unless you have somehow benefited from this financially then it really does seem like an utter waste of time..but you did this for school perhaps, instant A+?

hell anybody can do this if they have half a brain.

this is pretty old news...considerinhg this kinda stuff has been happening over 10 years ago via IRC.

final grade : E.....for "effort" ofcourse.

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 Final Post [message #344890 is a reply to message #344886 ]
Fri, 02 March 2007 15:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
touchstone is currently offline touchstone
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Ok,

I thought that revealing the truth would generate some minor discussion as I disappeared into the sunset, but it seems as though it has caused a bigger stir both here and on other boards, so I thought with one final post, I would address some of the main points.

First of all, worthwhile or not, I would like to both apologize to and commend MJ. As he said, if I had told him waht I was doing, he would have never let it happen, so the decision to keep him in the dark on my end was valid. I do appreciate the way that he allowed to forum to operate, with or without me, he always knew that a rumours board was a forum to discuss fantasy more so than it was for people to post insider information. I'm confident he knew most of the time that my rumours had no validity, but he recongnized that Touchtsone was of value to the forum, and thus for the better of the majority of the readers, he kept this character alive. Also, while I wish it hadn't had the impact, I'm am sorry for the kick in the balls it may have felt like, but obviously without knowing eachother it is clear that it wasn't personal, and I appreciate yuour response to the whole situation.

Some call this an expirament - it was not - it was a study - there are subtle differences. AN expirament lends itself to be something specifically about the matter at hand - trade rumours and gullable people. It had nothing to do with the rumours themselves, or hockey. It is difficult for me to explain the context, but the basic idea was that a colleague of mine published a study explaining that Shakesperean plays should only be performed in the period in which they were written because within that period his characters could exist in society, and today that would be next to impossible. He specifically focused on three characters, one of which was Touchstone from "As You Like It".

Fools were not what we tradionally accept as a fool in a Shakesperean play. THey were often considered to be more profound thinkers than those in power, and were often sought after for council. Although fools were so heavily depended upon for their advice, their advice came from simple observation. It came from an ability to tell people what they wanted to hear and make it sound like fact. This is why fools we employed as a part of the court. They would validate the King's decisions, regardless of how out to lunch they were. Touchstone did this with love in As You Like It. He had everyone buy into he theories on love, despite the accuracy, and in the end fell in love himself though he spent the entire play essentially making a mockery of it himself. I wish I had more time to better explain the theory, but A. nobody wants to read it, and B. It would be quite lengthy.

The idea behind the study was for a person to be able to lead and convince a community or society of his message, despite the fact his message is founded solely in opinion and fiction rather than fact and reality.

This was a perfect forum, where people wanted to be told information, regardless of its validity, and would continue to believe a facade even after being proven flase. It was to demonstrate that wit hthe right words at the right time, a person could dictate the mood and focus of a society. It was to prove that if the character Touchstone existed in today's society - he would have a place. He could exist today.

Personal attacks aside, I knew I was due, I hope that people understand this wasn't to make anybody look dumb, this is simply a study in human nature. Oilfans could have been a football site, a baseball site, etc. It had to be a sports arena becasue outside of actual society, it was really the only culture where people depended upon information. I considered at one point using the Hollywood tabloid system, but people hunger for tabloid gossip, but sports fans, it seems to me anyway, depend on the information as a part of their dedication to their team.

Oilfans was chosen because it was the most liberal and most passionate of the sites I researched.

Yes, it took a year. Waste of time? No, because I got what I needed and without a full year, in any study, the validity of it is shot.

BTW - It's not free time, I get paid to do what I do. I am married, so don't need to get myself a girlfriend.

Eklund is the perfect example of all of this. He took what I was doing to a whole other level, because he exploited so far as to get money out of people. My rumours were ripped off, I would grab them from what other media sources were reporting anywhere. Eklund does the same.

To anybody who cares - I am the one that broke him the Smyth signing when he reported it on Sportsnet as a E5 on deadline day. Smyth getting traded was a blessing in disguise because he went from a guaranteed signing to him being traded away. He grabs info from wherever it will come, he doesn't make it up, but he'll consider a monkey his source.

Thank you all. Some of you have been supportive of the idea. Others hate it. Both sides have validity.

Touchstone is gone from Oilfans.

I myself, will continue to pop by and read up on all the news. This truly is great site, with a ton of resources and REAL information.

Ciao.

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 Re: Final Post [message #344894 is a reply to message #344890 ]
Fri, 02 March 2007 15:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jasino is currently offline Jasino
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All this time I thought you were Touchstone from the Bourne Supremacy movies. The sinister CIA-esque agency for black ops.

On the response to being booed in Montreal

“It’s not a problem,”Matt Serra said. “I’m just going to get to feel like Tim Sylvia feels in every city.”

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 Re: Final Post [message #344898 is a reply to message #344890 ]
Fri, 02 March 2007 15:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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touchstone wrote on Fri, 02 March 2007 15:24


Eklund is the perfect example of all of this. He took what I was doing to a whole other level, because he exploited so far as to get money out of people. My rumours were ripped off, I would grab them from what other media sources were reporting anywhere. Eklund does the same.

To anybody who cares - I am the one that broke him the Smyth signing when he reported it on Sportsnet as a E5 on deadline day. Smyth getting traded was a blessing in disguise because he went from a guaranteed signing to him being traded away. He grabs info from wherever it will come, he doesn't make it up, but he'll consider a monkey his source.




This is my favourite part. That's awesome. Oilfans almost made it on to Sportsnet to flush out Eklund. Did you follow up and refer him to this thread? I think that should definitely be done.

Nicely done.

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 Re: Final Post [message #344906 is a reply to message #344894 ]
Fri, 02 March 2007 16:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ronster is currently offline ronster
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Jasino wrote on Fri, 02 March 2007 14:32

All this time I thought you were Touchstone from the Bourne Supremacy movies. The sinister CIA-esque agency for black ops.



That's Treadstone

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 Re: Final Post [message #344912 is a reply to message #344906 ]
Fri, 02 March 2007 16:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jasino is currently offline Jasino
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Treadstone, man im stupid

On the response to being booed in Montreal

“It’s not a problem,”Matt Serra said. “I’m just going to get to feel like Tim Sylvia feels in every city.”

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 Re: Final Post [message #344915 is a reply to message #344912 ]
Fri, 02 March 2007 16:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
derrick is currently offline derrick
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Jasino wrote on Fri, 02 March 2007 16:26

Treadstone, man im stupid



confused2 icon_biggrin

With all due respect to Longcat, derrick is quite possibly the dumbest poster on Oilfans.

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 Re: Final Post [message #344919 is a reply to message #344898 ]
Fri, 02 March 2007 16:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
goffer48 is currently offline goffer48
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TS.... icon_nod
Earlier on in this thread I called BS on this premise of a study. I hereby submit an apology for that statement. After reading your last post, I had to revise my opinion of what you had done/ accomplished. I'll never agree to the idea in principle of misleading one , or a group of people , intentionally for personal gain or satisfaction , however ,in this instance , no harm , no foul. You came clean.
You provided some life into the Rumours Forum, which I must admit, I looked forward to hearing about. After some reflection of a day or so , I realized that of all the rumour prognosticators, you were the one I believed the most. ( oh the shame icon_rolleyes ) Oh well ... It no longer irks as badly that I was fooled so easily, but I sure as Hell won't fall into trhe rumour game again!!! I will read it tho ... tooo much fun !! icon_thumbsup
take care TS

It is easier to perceive error than to find truth,the former lies on the surface and is easily seen, while the latter lies in depth, where few search for it.

Genius is knowing to stay silent as others demonstrate their ignorance.




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 Yes, TS... [message #344925 is a reply to message #344890 ]
Fri, 02 March 2007 17:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AY is currently offline AY
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this truly is a great site.

The Big Time, as I like to call OilFans.com continues to gain remarkable ground as a delivery system of solid, inimitable resource for all important matters both Edmonton Oilers and NHL.

So, the question is, did you compromise at any point the integrity of this site?

That's what would concern me the most. Did you respect the process?

Now, I'll give you the fact you kept it, this study as you conveniently call it, to the Rumours forum.

I know your study never became an issue with me, 'cos, to be honest, I know better.

I do appreciate your apologies and attempts to clarify your intentions.

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 Re: Final Post [message #344928 is a reply to message #344890 ]
Fri, 02 March 2007 17:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
YoyoDomino is currently offline YoyoDomino
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Damm you all for taking this with such grace...

If I Ever Meet you touchstone,...


Ahhhhhhhhh.......................

the futility of my threats,
coming into perspective,

going to lose..
my ..

boom

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 I'm wondering... [message #344931 is a reply to message #344928 ]
Fri, 02 March 2007 18:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AY is currently offline AY
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do you, or MJ, or anyone else for that matter feel like you were taken advantage of?

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 Re: I'm wondering... [message #344946 is a reply to message #344931 ]
Fri, 02 March 2007 19:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
goffer48 is currently offline goffer48
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At first , but, reverse the roles ... how else would you do what he did ??
Plus... he could have just disappeared, no comment , & we would have been none the wiser. At first I thought he came back to stroke his own ego , but something tells me he is not that type of human. I could be wrong . confused2

It is easier to perceive error than to find truth,the former lies on the surface and is easily seen, while the latter lies in depth, where few search for it.

Genius is knowing to stay silent as others demonstrate their ignorance.




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 Re: Final Post [message #344949 is a reply to message #344890 ]
Fri, 02 March 2007 19:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kamoil is currently offline kamoil
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touchstone wrote on Fri, 02 March 2007 14:24

BTW - It's not free time, I get paid to do what I do. I am married, so don't need to get myself a girlfriend.


when i first read this thread, assuming that it was true, i figured he was some grad student in english lit. or something.

but, grad students don't get paid. who would pay somebody to do something like this? new world order? osama? i just don't get it. unless there's some mad social-scientist out there in central alberta, it doesn't make sense to me.

anybody agree?

"Nice place, that Calgary--if you like gay cowboys." - Jay Mohr

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 Re: Final Post [message #344951 is a reply to message #344949 ]
Fri, 02 March 2007 19:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
goffer48 is currently offline goffer48
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Interesting point...... TS ??? care to enlighten us further ????

It is easier to perceive error than to find truth,the former lies on the surface and is easily seen, while the latter lies in depth, where few search for it.

Genius is knowing to stay silent as others demonstrate their ignorance.




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 Re: I'm wondering... [message #344960 is a reply to message #344931 ]
Fri, 02 March 2007 19:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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I do. Pulling crap like that is a classless bull move. If he'd of done an experiment, or study as he so finely differentiates in person he'd be in line for a good ole fashion beating. I don't need some jerk off lying to me when I want to read about the Oilers. In conclusion, **** you Touchstone, your 'study' has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to me that you are an ***hole.

And, in this case I think swearing is necessary.

WACs and GABs. WACs and GABs.

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 Re: I'm wondering... [message #344961 is a reply to message #344931 ]
Fri, 02 March 2007 19:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bryanbryoil is currently offline Bryanbryoil
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AY wrote on Fri, 02 March 2007 15:02

do you, or MJ, or anyone else for that matter feel like you were taken advantage of?


MJ seems to have taken it 1,000,000 times better than I would have. That said, raising peoples hopes and then crashing them down (Pitkannen and especially Smyth) IMO that is flat out mean spirited. Sports fans are some of the most passionate people in the world, and truth be told if I were to meet a person like this, chances are that it wouldn't be pretty. I'm the type of a guy that takes integrity and honesty to heart. That said, it's over now, and I just hope that there won't be another TS type of a poster coming in to replace TS. The people that probably feel the worst are the guys that stood up for him, IMO TS owes each one of them an appology for believeing in him and sticking up for him when he obviously didn't deserve to have anyone stand up for him.

Speed and Hands

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 Re: touchstone [message #344962 is a reply to message #344753 ]
Fri, 02 March 2007 20:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bryanbryoil is currently offline Bryanbryoil
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MJ wrote on Fri, 02 March 2007 05:02

Bryanbryoil wrote on Thu, 01 March 2007 21:18

I'm glad that you find humour in this, as IMO the credibility that you have built up over the years by providing us with this great site has just been crapped on. The only positive out of all of this is that it likely brought more traffic to the board. Out-side of that IMO this is a black-eye for this site, and in a way calling you foolish in allowing him to manipulate you into doing his bidding by banning his adversaries and allowing him to spew his BS. You're the man, MJ, but IMO this is a direct slap in your face. It only matters what you feel as you are the man here, and if you're cool with it then fine. That would make you a better man than me.


I don't see how touchstone has killed any credibility I bring to the site. Nor do I really see that it brought down the name OilFans since none of touchstone's rumours got reported as the news thankfully. A rumour board is just that. touchstone was as harmful as Eklund. I think Eklund has proven to the entire media world that he is only for entertainment purposes... any rumours should be just for that.

Unfortunately we not only wasted our time, but the rumours spread further enough at times that it wasted other sites and other medias' time. I sincerely apologize to wasting peoples' time at HF and the Team 1260, for example.


I don't fault you in any way, shape, or form. IMO you did what you felt was best for this site, to keep around a guy that potentially has inside information. I just hope that as you've said other outlets don't look down upon your site because of this. IMO you've handled this in a much more professional manner than I would've, I must commend you for it. If you're cool with everything, then IMO it's time to burry this ordeal once and for all.


Speed and Hands

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 Beauty! [message #344969 is a reply to message #344370 ]
Fri, 02 March 2007 20:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oilly is currently offline Oilly
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lmao

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 Is it just me? [message #344973 is a reply to message #344205 ]
Fri, 02 March 2007 20:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
haggis is currently offline haggis
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That's sat thinking "what a ****in' bonehead tool this dude is".

I know it looks way better to pat him on the back for a job well done but frig off buddy. You can prove/justify just about anything in this world so you're hardly Einstein for getting results from this "study". I'm sure you're report will be a great and enlightening read, just like the books "The World is Round and other unknown facts" and "Big Tits - Men Like Them". Maybe your professor is a Flames fan and will give you an 'A' but I'd just let him bend ya over his desk and you can earn it that way.

Either way I'm sure that in the year you've spent trying to prove you're some form of intellectual your wife's been round nobbing the neighbour and you never knew. In fact he's probably reporting it as a study as you wrote your last post. Report title: "Screw Shakespeare - How blind an obsessed scholar can be while you're boinking his missus"

It may also be me but I get the feeling this will be the last part of his gay paper. Chapter name: The Reveal.

[Updated on: Fri, 02 March 2007 20:36]

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 Re: touchstone [message #344976 is a reply to message #344205 ]
Fri, 02 March 2007 20:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lee Ovaltine is currently offline Lee Ovaltine
Messages: 53
Registered: September 2002
Location: Crystal Beach, ON
Drafted Prospect
So what. The internet's full of people who aren't who they say they are.

I had a little experiment of my own. I already proved the gullibility of this board when I pretended to be Gene Principe. I'm not proud. Just grateful I wasn't banned.

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 Re: touchstone [message #344995 is a reply to message #344976 ]
Fri, 02 March 2007 22:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Thaioil is currently offline Thaioil
Messages: 7
Registered: August 2005
Junior Prospect
rock lmao

Oh this is just too f'ing funny - what a lark - and Shakespearean on top of it. Begs the question regarding the other so-called pundits out there whose insights were not all that much better than Touchstones.

Farewell! God knows when we shall meet again ~William Shakespeare

[Updated on: Fri, 02 March 2007 23:34]

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 Re: touchstone [message #345063 is a reply to message #344995 ]
Sat, 03 March 2007 12:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
netcam is currently offline netcam
Messages: 1
Registered: March 2007
Location: Edmonton
Junior Prospect
As a lurker who found this site during last seasons playoff run and has stopped by only a few times during this sorry season, I was stunned by the Smyth trade and came back to see what Oiler fans were saying about it here. Now reading this thread, that a regular poster has been intentionally misleading people by fabricating trade/signing stories on here for a year under the guise of a ‘study’ ... interesting and yet disturbing! So even though I haven't been exposed to much of it (other than Pronger to Florida, I think), had to register for my .02 cents!

This guy can claim he has proven Shakespearean characters can exist in today’s society until hell freezes over, but his colleagues would likely throw his misguided ‘study’ out as being invalid; a waste of time and flawed. His own premise invalidates it, as posing and posting on a fan site for a specific team (or any dedicated forum of any subject) and telling those fans what they want to hear and believe proves nothing if some of them swallow it. As big hockey fans here, we are pre-conditioned to rumours all the time through media like the HNIC Satellite Hotstove, Hockey News & Bob Mackenzie, TSN/Sportsnet, etc. So does that make what this guy has done here justifiable? No, because the difference is there is a name and face behind those other stories. Even his court jester was a visible person. He has to prove his theory for real by living the lies out in public and facing all types of people. Doing it faceless in an internet forum proves nothing.

Furthermore if he was truly serious about what he was doing and trying to accomplish, no question he should have received permission from the site owner in advance before starting any of this. That is basic ethics and professionalism. Then at least somebody responsible for the integrity of the site would be in-the-know and a bit of monitoring could be done, using PM’s if he thought any lines had been crossed. This is his site and this poster has just abused it like spam, a virus/worm roaming around for a year! Say what you want but there will be reputation/credibility damage done to this site from this. As some others have noted, surprising that the owner has brushed this off so easily. I would be looking into the legality of what this person has done. Said he gets paid for stuff like this didn't he? And the guy knows it’s a thin line, ‘commending’ the owner for being a good sport about it in his post above, LOL.

Ask yourselves this: if Smyth had signed with the Oilers on Tuesday, would this guy still be doing his ‘study’ here?? Chances are pretty good that he would be. Only if he had the site owners permission as above, this supposed 1 year term ends and he can come out clean on a high note like that. Otherwise, the lie perpetuates because his status would be elevated by some believers and he would be forced to keep going with it, presumably at least until UFA starts. If he were to just disappear and say nothing whether right or wrong, the temptation to come back would be pretty strong.

You shouldn't let him get away with it so easily with his eloquent explanations. Anybody can hide behind the anonymity of the internet and pretend to be somebody they’re not. This guy could be just as easily chatting up kids on Nexopia or any other site, while at the same time saying so-and-so is a ‘done deal’ on this site. Presumably, nobody else posted rumours with the all-knowing conviction that he did.
This guy's 'study' has been a fraud, nothing more. icon_thumbdown


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 Re: touchstone [message #345122 is a reply to message #345063 ]
Sat, 03 March 2007 19:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jadrain is currently offline jadrain
Messages: 577
Registered: March 2006
Calder Trophy Winner
netcam wrote on Sat, 03 March 2007 12:44

As a lurker who found this site during last seasons playoff run and has stopped by only a few times during this sorry season, I was stunned by the Smyth trade and came back to see what Oiler fans were saying about it here. Now reading this thread, that a regular poster has been intentionally misleading people by fabricating trade/signing stories on here for a year under the guise of a ?study? ... interesting and yet disturbing! So even though I haven't been exposed to much of it (other than Pronger to Florida, I think), had to register for my .02 cents!

This guy can claim he has proven Shakespearean characters can exist in today?s society until hell freezes over, but his colleagues would likely throw his misguided ?study? out as being invalid; a waste of time and flawed. His own premise invalidates it, as posing and posting on a fan site for a specific team (or any dedicated forum of any subject) and telling those fans what they want to hear and believe proves nothing if some of them swallow it. As big hockey fans here, we are pre-conditioned to rumours all the time through media like the HNIC Satellite Hotstove, Hockey News & Bob Mackenzie, TSN/Sportsnet, etc. So does that make what this guy has done here justifiable? No, because the difference is there is a name and face behind those other stories. Even his court jester was a visible person. He has to prove his theory for real by living the lies out in public and facing all types of people. Doing it faceless in an internet forum proves nothing.

Furthermore if he was truly serious about what he was doing and trying to accomplish, no question he should have received permission from the site owner in advance before starting any of this. That is basic ethics and professionalism. Then at least somebody responsible for the integrity of the site would be in-the-know and a bit of monitoring could be done, using PM?s if he thought any lines had been crossed. This is his site and this poster has just abused it like spam, a virus/worm roaming around for a year! Say what you want but there will be reputation/credibility damage done to this site from this. As some others have noted, surprising that the owner has brushed this off so easily. I would be looking into the legality of what this person has done. Said he gets paid for stuff like this didn't he? And the guy knows it?s a thin line, ?commending? the owner for being a good sport about it in his post above, LOL.

Ask yourselves this: if Smyth had signed with the Oilers on Tuesday, would this guy still be doing his ?study? here?? Chances are pretty good that he would be. Only if he had the site owners permission as above, this supposed 1 year term ends and he can come out clean on a high note like that. Otherwise, the lie perpetuates because his status would be elevated by some believers and he would be forced to keep going with it, presumably at least until UFA starts. If he were to just disappear and say nothing whether right or wrong, the temptation to come back would be pretty strong.

You shouldn't let him get away with it so easily with his eloquent explanations. Anybody can hide behind the anonymity of the internet and pretend to be somebody they?re not. This guy could be just as easily chatting up kids on Nexopia or any other site, while at the same time saying so-and-so is a ?done deal? on this site. Presumably, nobody else posted rumours with the all-knowing conviction that he did.
This guy's 'study' has been a fraud, nothing more. icon_thumbdown



I'm with you 100% on this. First it was pseudo-hockey-rumours, now it's pseudo-academic blather. Same dweeb power trip, which is all this has been about since day one.

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 Re: touchstone [message #345339 is a reply to message #345122 ]
Sun, 04 March 2007 00:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PeArD is currently offline PeArD
Messages: 3
Registered: October 2005
Location: Calgary
Junior Prospect
When I read TS's first post in this thread about his "study" I thought he was being sarcastic.

Ohh well. Good riddance.

There Was Something In The Air That Night
The Stars Were Bright
FERNANDOOOO

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 What an interesting read [message #345381 is a reply to message #345339 ]
Sun, 04 March 2007 09:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hibernia is currently offline Hibernia
Messages: 792
Registered: October 1998
Location: Sin John's
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... it's not often that I come across such a long thread that I haven't read any of. It's a nice social experiment in itself just reading it. Screw Shakespeare... let's look at what we should've learned from this:

It's a parable with the moral of the story being... everyone should now know what a rumour is. It's not fact. The only way it becomes fact is when it comes from the official site. If you allow yourself to believe it, you're only fooling yourself. If you allow yourself to get worked up over them... then you're only stressing yourself into an early grave.

As for those that are worried about our credibility... greater people have been and will continue to be duped by bigger frauds than Mr. Touchstone. In the reality of the online world, it takes more than one bad apple to spoil the whole bunch. We'll be fine. If credibility was our main goal, we wouldn't have an OT Forum and all pointless reply posts that include a three-mile quote and an emoticon would be eliminated immediately. Our credibility will survive because those that have proven the core of this community have over time proven their hockey knowledge. They may not always be right, but the grasp of the game is there. Those that are just casual fans come and go, but it is that core that will keep this alive and as credible as any faceless group can be.

Now, my favourite was when he said weeks ago that the deal was done and agreed upon but that they were going to wait until just before the deadline to see if the team was in a playoff position or not to see if Ryan would sign now or in the summer. Ah, that still might happen... but I don't think Smytty has that Shakespearean flair that would be necessary for the dramatics he pulled at the airport.

2 points or 3 points? Make up your mind Mr. Bettman.

The thing I hate most about this soap opera is I find myself in a bizarro reality in which (Ron) Hextall and AY are the voices of reason. - rukm01

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 Re: touchstone [message #345536 is a reply to message #344205 ]
Mon, 05 March 2007 01:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Horseradish Hemsky is currently offline Horseradish Hemsky
Messages: 401
Registered: January 2004
Location: Victoria, BC
Hotshot Rookie
Wow. I never really took the rumours with anything more than a grain of salt...but that's...wow, I don't know if I've ever seen anything like this happen...

Quite brilliant, in fact. Keep him on. If people were pissed off by his "rumors", it's time they stopped taking themselves so serious while spending their spare time in the rumors forum. Well done touchstone. Keep him around, I say.

With a trail, the best way to keep it alive is to walk on it, because every time you walk on it, you create it again. - Middle Eastern Proverb

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 Re: Final Post [message #346686 is a reply to message #344949 ]
Thu, 08 March 2007 20:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wyntermute is currently offline Wyntermute
Messages: 499
Registered: January 2006
Location: Victoria, BC
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kamoil wrote on Fri, 02 March 2007 18:15

touchstone wrote on Fri, 02 March 2007 14:24

BTW - It's not free time, I get paid to do what I do. I am married, so don't need to get myself a girlfriend.


when i first read this thread, assuming that it was true, i figured he was some grad student in english lit. or something.

but, grad students don't get paid. who would pay somebody to do something like this? new world order? osama? i just don't get it. unless there's some mad social-scientist out there in central alberta, it doesn't make sense to me.

anybody agree?


No, because many grad students do get paid. Maybe not theatre grad students, but grad students in science and engineering certainly do. Hopefully I will be starting grad school in September '08. With any luck, it won't cost me a penny.

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 Re: Final Post [message #346723 is a reply to message #346686 ]
Thu, 08 March 2007 23:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
Messages: 2261
Registered: December 2003
Location: Republic of Alberta
Retired Hockey Player
Wyntermute wrote on Thu, 08 March 2007 20:47

kamoil wrote on Fri, 02 March 2007 18:15

touchstone wrote on Fri, 02 March 2007 14:24

BTW - It's not free time, I get paid to do what I do. I am married, so don't need to get myself a girlfriend.


when i first read this thread, assuming that it was true, i figured he was some grad student in english lit. or something.

but, grad students don't get paid. who would pay somebody to do something like this? new world order? osama? i just don't get it. unless there's some mad social-scientist out there in central alberta, it doesn't make sense to me.

anybody agree?


No, because many grad students do get paid. Maybe not theatre grad students, but grad students in science and engineering certainly do. Hopefully I will be starting grad school in September '08. With any luck, it won't cost me a penny.

I love visiting the grad students when I go to Starbucks or Chapters. They always look really happy while they work.

WACs and GABs. WACs and GABs.

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 Re: What an interesting read [message #346727 is a reply to message #345381 ]
Thu, 08 March 2007 23:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
MJ is currently offline MJ
Messages: 2861
Registered: November 1997
Location: Edmonton
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Hibernia wrote on Sun, 04 March 2007 09:28

all pointless reply posts that include a three-mile quote and an emoticon would be eliminated immediately.


Not immediately... but they do get removed. I hate whitenoise on the board.

Have you ever waited for something for so long that the waiting becomes the something?

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 Re: touchstone [message #347373 is a reply to message #345536 ]
Mon, 12 March 2007 14:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
TheTooSilentGhost is currently offline TheTooSilentGhost
Messages: 2
Registered: October 2006
Location: Edmonton
Junior Prospect
So basically you went onto a hockey rumours board (a location all but guaranteed to be full of people making up rumours like they're going out of style) and then posted fictional trades pretending to have relevant sources (again, nothing new). Wouldnt a more appropriate location have been somewhere people are not expecting to be mislead (look up rumour in a dictionary) as your results would have been more revealing of trends found in society on a greater scale? Not only will your study have proved nothing insightful, but I hope for your sake your Professor doesn't criticize you for your obvious lack of thought in choosing a location in which to carry it out.

Tommy Salo's tears cure cancer; too bad he never cries...

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 Re: The rule for all should be... [message #347378 is a reply to message #344352 ]
Mon, 12 March 2007 14:50 Go to previous message
TheTooSilentGhost is currently offline TheTooSilentGhost
Messages: 2
Registered: October 2006
Location: Edmonton
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also perhaps I am misunderstading something but from your initial post that revealed the person behind the Touchstone 'hockey rumour god' disguise I got the impression that touchstone's namesake was a jester/fool. Now I fully admit I have not read the play but my understanding is that people recognize that a jester/fool is there for entertainment. If they then choose to believe was is being said because it seems profound/plausible even though they know full well the information is provided by someone there for entertainment (and therefore probably a questionable source at best) then that may reveal something about a person's penchant to believe something simply because they want to believe it. You on the other hand attempted to come across as someone who should have been considered credible (NOT someone like a jester/fool). Perhaps if right from the start you had said that you are a questionable source then you would have succeeded in your study, but as you did not how have you done anything but prove that people sometimes believe liers? In that sense, how are you any different from anyone else who does the same? I think you will find your Professor agrees with me...

Tommy Salo's tears cure cancer; too bad he never cries...

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